The incompetence of the C-130 flight crew departing Savannah is breathtaking. They decline a static takeoff even though there was no recent engine test; the engineer pays no attention to the problem developing on the #1 engine from the start of take-off. The pilot and copilot appeared to have no clue what flaps do and when they should be retracted or extended. The C-130 is designed to operate safely in 3,000 feet of runway or even less, which offered the opportunity to abort, yet when the pilots saw a problem, they did not abort their takeoff - even though the flight manual clearly said they should. The crew did not know how to fly the airplane with three engines even though the Hercules is designed so it can do so trivially if one engine fails. If they were going to commit suicide like that, shouldn't they have let the passengers deplane first? This is appalling.
I agree completely. This was the result of casual indifference and carelessness regarding takeoff procedures. It's almost like the crew adopted a persona akin to the plane and it's fate...flying off to the graveyard to be cannibalized and eventually scrapped during its long retirement. This was still an airframe that needed to be respected as a viable flying machine due all of the diligence and procedural adherence as a plane still in active service. Just appalling.
If I was riding a 53-year old motorcycle, I would take extra care (initially at least) regarding speed, brakes, steering, etc. This crew obviously agreed that they, and not just the aircraft, belonged in the Boneyard.
What were they thinking. Being a ferry flight they probably felt a little too relaxed and complacent. I’m thinking back to when I was cabin crew on a ferry flight. Tragic none the less and needless if the proper standard operating procedures were followed.
stall buffet in a C-130 is terrifying , it happened to me twice in a 24 year C-130 career as a flight engineer. One recovery was about 50 feet off the water, ground effect saved us that day.
I was a 1C and worked with aviators closely for over a decade. Nothing but respect for all of you for the jobs you do. A lot more balls than me to do that everyday
Skidded turn stall. I was a military pilot. We had that demonstrated to us early in primary training. Place departs controlled flight quickly with an immediate loss of altitude. To do that in a C-130 takes some effort.
@karlwithak. I understand. The military rejected you because of your unfortunate sexual experimentation with farm animals. How is your job at Walmart going, btw?
@@karlwithak. Its hard to become a military pilot, unless you can check 3 or 4 DEI boxes. A high percentage of commercial pilots are former military pilots, so that means you can't feel safe flying at all.
@@karlwithak. Its ok sweety, you were treated so badly by that hateful military, not understanding you and all. But you can use what ever pronouns you like now and if you get really freaky, Milly Vanilly will fast track you through the ranks and make you a Major for his special parties.
Used to be a C-130 FE, back in the day. (30+ years before this event. We used to do an engine runup prior to first flight of the day. Not only to verify engine power, but to ensure prop low pitch stops were functioning. The FE on this flight failed miserably. There should have been a rejected takeoff early on. None of this should have happened.
I can only imagine the panic and terror of the crewmen when they realized they were going down with no way out. The first had a cluster of mistakes going on, but the second was doing what they could while lacking critical information being passed on to them. Both were such tragedies. RIP to all these men and prayers for their families. Thank you for another great presentation!
The C-130 crashed less than 1 mile from where I was working. Just like in the video, the entire ground shook when it impacted, plus the huge explosion and large cloud of black smoke. The crash actually was very close the the GA PORTS Authority located in Savannah/ Port Wentworth, GA and the plane crashed next to and on a main highway, HWY 21, running EAST/WEST thru Port Wentworth to Savannah, GA. There were also a few people killed on the Hwy in their vehicles while driving. The Hwy was closed for days...I will NEVER forget that day. Thanks for the video!!!
@@flemmingstelling8079 you are exactly right, my mistake. But that is what was reported by local news right after it happened. Should have know, never trust the news, lol
First one: this is a huge feat to crash a C-130 in good flight condition (3 engines), they have done everything humanly possible! Second one: conditions should have been clearly communicated, it's criminal for not stating the problem encountered on such high-risk flight without any margin.
The first accident the pilot in command as well as the right hand pilot failed to adjust the flaps; both were negligent and ignored a few signs that could have saved them
There have been a whole bunch of last flight incidents over the years, last flight either for the acft or a crew member. I think its possible that people lose concentration or get cocky and hot dog. Don't know about any individuals here, but often times these special flights get crew that might be rusty or have more clout than skills.
I witnessed the Savannah one. I saw it almost turn over before going down behind some trees and crashing on a road I travelled regularly. I still have dreams about it!
I work at the airport. We were on our way back from lunch and caught the Fireball on dashcam. We immediately knew a plane had gone down. After that all hell broke loose as Emergency services locked just about everything down.
Damn, he trained his whole life to do this one thing right. When it happened he did it all wrong. Damn! As a flight crew member this was my greatest fear, to fail at the moment I needed not to fail. What a nightmare.
@@paulis7319 - I'm always hearing voices. Like the song says, I hear my dad telling me things, my mom, grandma, grandpa, wife, daughters, etc. eeek! Just day before yesterday at a gun range I nearly felt SSgt. Kane slap the back of my head because I didn't immediately check the chamber on a rifle someone handed to me. 😂
When I was 9 years old Mrs. Endicott and her husband took me and the rest of my Cub Scout group from Grosse Ile to Selfridge Air National guard base in Michigan. He was a crewmember on these and I watched the heavy turboprop fly above me, and I vowed to myself that I would fly one of these. I eventually wound up flying 747's and 767's....
IKR. Camera appeared to be at a truck stop 1.5-3 miles away, estimated. Shook that camera good even before fireball seen ! RIP to those 9 Souls & their surviving families, in Jesus name !
That was too far away for it to be a shockwave that quickly. Probably wind moving the camera. It would have taken several seconds for the shockwave to reach that far, if there was any.
@@1967250s Maybe so or not. Sound moves at 750 mph, which is 5 seconds per mile, and maybe it's only 1/2 mile distant, say, so that means shockwave EASILY makes it to camera in 2.5 seconds = quite easily what we saw, right ? (The trees veiled the precise view, making the fireball appear delayed)
While learning to be a private pilot, it became clear to me that fixed wing planes flew themselves pretty well when everything was going right. My job in part was to deal with when things were not going right. Also not to put the plane in a situation that it was not intended to be in.
thats what airline pilots are paid for. sit there and hopefully know how to react and stay calm when necessary... friends one. i couldnt handle the stress of just taking off i think. naw. thats a lot of metal to be in control of... especially when packed full of meat. gimme a lil two seater anyday!
Hope everyone stays safe fighting the huge Canadian fire. I'm a clueless not-a-pilot, just sending best wishes. Videos like this are very good for someone like me, though - because we non-pilots still appreciate learning a little that can make us appreciate what you heroic people do. Again, Best wishes!👍👍
The tail number was not 515. The aircraft tail number was actually 65-0968. It used to belong to the Regular Air Force and was stationed at Keesler Air Force Base in Biloxi Mississippi. I maintained Instrument Systems on this aircraft during that time period.
That same engine out crash scenario of a 130 happened at the Evansville, Indiana airport in the 1992. Crashed inverted into a hotel and restaurant killing a two in the restaurant and nine at a meeting in the hotel. A pilot trainee pushed on the wrong rudder during a simulated ending failure and the IP didn't catch it in time. I stayed at a hotel on the other side of the restaurant (same side of the road) the day before the accident and had met the server in the restaurant (a server and cook was killed) the day before she was killed. The nine people in the hotel conference room were burned to death.
They didn't do ANYTHING right. I've got 4000 hours as a C-130 Engineer, and that is who should have never let the plane leave the ground, he had plenty of time to spot the problem and call an abort. He should have also been in the pilots ear, reminding him to "raise the dead" meaning bank away from the dead engine. He should also have been running the engine shutdown checklist and made sure the co-pilot went flaps to zero and gear up as soon as possible. And I have NO idea why a pilot would bank into a dead engine and apply rudder into it as well. It was almost as though the entire crew were complete rookies who had never spent a day in a simulator.
I've been watching your videos and have been a member for years. Your videos are amazing and get better with each episode. I tell all my aviation friends about your channel and now they are hooked. Keep up the awesome work. I look forward to new episodes every week!
@@Anthony...0110 I think UA-cam’s content creator algorithm is so demanding that it forces creators to post very frequently to avoid losing channel exposure. This is why a lot of channels now post those awful shorts. If you don’t post frequently, you don’t get posted on feeds, your views drop off, and your income plummets. It’s dog-eat-dog like everything in this economic system.
That unstable air for the second C-130 was so heartbreaking. Such a cumbersome plane, even though USAF found fault (they have to, I suppose) with communications between pilots. There's doing thing by the book, then there's reality when things just go bad quickly. They lost their lives trying to save others. My respect to family and friends of ALL pilots and crew lost. Godspeed!
Well, honestly, the first pilot should have radioed the C-130 pilot and let them know what happened. Planes don't just get thrown to the ground for no reason. Even if he didn't realize it was a microburst, he could have said that something made his aircraft lose altitude and to beware.
@@dx1450 Yeah, probably would have helped. The call to emergency dump must have been some sort of clue I guess. I wonder how high the terrain was. 7000' leaves quite a bit of maneuvering room above ground at sea level, but if terrain there was maybe 6000-6500', and they couldn't build up airspeed, maybe not enough time to do a lot any way.
There have been a whole bunch of last flight incidents over the years, last flight either for the acft or a crew member. I think its possible that people lose concentration or get cocky and hot dog. Don't know about any individuals here, but often times these special flights get crew that might be rusty or have more clout than skills.
Around 2005 I watched a C-130 take off from Chivenor, Devon, UK. Black smoke from engine 3. It did a low altitude turn over the sea but could not get back to base. Landed on the 2 mile beach. Good thing the tide was out. Maintenance crew on scene in minutes, fixed the engine and back in the air. No mention of it on the news.
Back in the 80's I was with 4 C130's that stopped at Sacramento Ca. to refuel. We were all heavy with equipment plus fuel packed in to get us to Hawaii. First or second one taking off torched a engine late on takeoff. They get off the ground and immediately do a slow turn to come back. They also started crop dusting fuel immediately. Unfortunately they weren't high enough for the fuel to vaporize and it hit the ground, and a nearby freeway, and houses in the area. The California Hwy Patrol actually showed up at the airport surprisingly quickly, drove right out onto the flightline to investigate. And they were pretty pissed, said it was quite the disaster.
Those aircraft are some of the most hearty in the world. They have flown in Arctic, saharan desert type, And anything between for conditions. There had to have been some serious problems on board the aircraft, As well as mistakes made by the crew for it to Have gone to ground the wrong way.
First off, condolences to the family's of all airmen involved. Second, What a absolutely amazing job job in making this video. The animation and editing are top notch!
@@Nikolas_A Ok so you confused me by putting that comment under mine. My comment says nothing about it being real video. While the events are real, the video is animated. That's why I complimented him on his editing skills.
Wow, just wow. This was all totally avoidable. 3 good engines and what I can only imagine a minimally loaded aircraft. Also, a "rolling takeoff" does not preclude an engine run up which is part of the pre takeoff checklist.
There is no engine run-up on the C130, per say, other than the Flight Engineer doing his systems checks before the taxi. The rolling takeoff is not unusual at all. Not aborting the takeoff when the #1 engine was making low power is inexcusable.
A good understanding of what makes a plane fly and a desire to do it would have saved their lives. Aircraft are not intended to stay in the air at under flight speed. That's why you slow down to land. When they already knew that they were losing speed and that they had the flaps on, lean into the working engines and reduce flap. Good God!
I was trained that the run up is essential before take off. In an engine failure we were told to always fly the plane, declare an emergency and get it back on the ground ASAP, preferably on a runway.
In the Summer of 1970 I was on an Eastern Airlines 727 flying JFK - HOU. The only time I can remember a rolling takeoff. We taxiied to the runway and took a SHARP left turn and the pilot pushed the throttles forward. It was a seriously macho ride!
I don’t remember what airline it was but I had a rolling take off on flight to Europe from North America not to far back. I was surprised actually but I thought it was normal.
Flew on C130s for 6 years. It's so hard to watch this. Places I've been with my own two feet planes I prolly saw with my own two eyes. Friends of friends. I never saw the incident report for the Savanna crew I was out by then but I imagine there had to be more to it. My unit was really close with the Charlotte folks. Sad days. Eitherway, for anybody calling the Savanna crew incompetent I'll tell you that the C130 is a tough plane to fly, especially the H model. It's a beast and even the best of us can get behind the plane so to speak. I had close to 800 hours as a Loadmaster and I'll tell you at times it took everything I had. C130 crew are the best but sometimes that's just not good enough.
Well, I'm not with you on this deal with the PR crew. These were basic errors that they certainly would have been trained for. Most likely in simulator as well as flight training. And yes, crew incompetence was certainly a thing there. It would be like a loadmaster not bothering to strap or chain the load because the flight route doesn't show any bad weather. So, hey, the parking brakes should be plenty. Or maintenance not bothering to safety wire components because, "those things never come loose".
@@snakerstran9101 I've been down to Puerto Rico and trained with a guy from that unit in school. I'm not going to say that they were the #1 C130 unit in the Airforce but they weren't incompetent. Like I said there's a lot that can go wrong on those planes even if you do everything right. Planes have crashed for some really cringe reasons before and it's easy to see all of the mistakes in the briefing room or when watching a UA-cam video when your feet are solidly on the ground but it's hard in the moment. There's a big difference between calling a crew incompetent and and saying that mistakes were made. My unit was top notch but there's several times I felt lucky to be alive. C130s are a tough plane to fly.
Many mistakes by the crew inevitably lead to this accident. Not sure what the flight engineer was up to, but checking engine performance was not one of them.
The PRANG crash is undescribibly sad and avoidable. The crew and leadership failures of the PRANG are shameful...but not surprising. To include the forest fire crash with the PRANG crash is disrespectful to the forest fire crew.
I'm not sure how these two incidents are related other than that the crash involves the same type of plane, but the circumstances were completely different.
I was learning RC airplanes and the only time a C-10 crashed good was when he flew it next to a hillside and got a sharp breeze going on that side, it basically flies almost as good as the A-10.
Isn’t there a flight engineer sitting just aft and between the pilots? Who job is to monitor the engines? Amazing lack of crew coordination. “No one in the cockpit”, WTF was the guy in the right hand seat doing? “Unrecognized by the crew”, ALL of them…..ridiculous. These guys are USAF trained, right? Is the Puerto Rican AirGuard that bad?
I was on scene just after the crash shown in the first clip. A Puerto Rican C-130 on it's last flight being retired. Yes the PIC was pretty bad, but as a pilot myself with some experience flying for the DOD and a *lot* of military pilot friends, unfortunately this is not out of the ordinary for PR piloting.
@@friv3877 Every crash is different. All countries have pilots with varying degrees of proficiency. *Some* countries are known to have less overall proficient pilots than other countries. That's as tactful as I can state this.
Shame there was no audio of the cockpit but i guess they didn't say anything to each other anyway. Sad it was this ships last voyage. The second flight I'm sure how quick a crew can respond to a microburst so i'd put that 50/50 weather/crew. The lead plane should have been more forceful to abort the mission and get out of there.
There is recorded audio and I only got to hear it one time from the Safety Investigation Board report. As a 130 maintainer it was important that we didn’t follow the culture of maintenance that was shown in the repairs prior to this incident.
I live in Savannah and remember this happening. The plane crashed right in the middle of highway 21, which is a very busy 4 lane highway and the crash was mid day......the fact that plane hit no vehicles was nothing short of amazing and just luck. The actual video used in this video come from my sisters cctv security camera at her trucking company. I remember her showing it to me and she contacted the Army base across the street and they got a copy of it. Seeing that plane take off like it did and the pilots not caring was scary....they easily could've killed a bunch of people at that intersection had the plane landed 100 yards left or right.
Unfortunately the video leaves out the previous issues with the #1 engine from the first incident. The aircraft had issues with #1 on arrival and had been worked on by maintenance crews who performed incorrect procedures signing off the write-up. However that doesn't relieve the front end crew from letting this go from bad to worse during takeoff roll. By the time this accident occurred that Air Force had done away from engine runups on the first flight of the day. Rolling takeoffs are fine however due to the engine/prop work being done on #1 they should have paid more attention. The pilot could have rejected the takeoff when the plane veered left during takeoff roll. The flight engineer and/or co-pilot should have called a "reject" when the #1 RPM went out of limits. That was their job on takeoff roll...to monitor the engine instruments. However even though they messed that up that plane was easily flyable after takeoff even with #1 engine/prop going haywire. They continued bad airmanship and basically fubbared everything they had been taught about flying the airplane. Aviate, Navigate and Communicate. With coordinated flight controls this should have been an easy return to land.
I have one question about that first flight: What the heck was that commander doing? If I was flying the plane, I would have instinctively turned away from the bank instead of toward it. It would be hard to call it 'spatial disorientation' if you had plenty of visuals and midday lighting.
And you should be trusting your instruments if you don’t have any visuals, but they had visuals so like you said, spatial disorientation wouldn’t have been an excuse. It just seems like they were ignorant, or arrogant, or just didn’t care about actually flying the old bird and were determined to crash. It’s very strange
In the second crash, it was stated that the aircrew all perished but nothing about the fate of the two loadmasters who, at the start of the video, were said to be onboard. Have I missed something? Did they disembark before the fatal flight?
When I was in the military, it wasn't my own death I was concerned about. It was other people getting killed because I screwed up. That's what kept me studying, practicing, drilling and not slacking off. I've known of people who lived with the knowledge that people died because they didn't do their jobs right. There were two types: Those who made excuses why it wasn't their fault and those who took the slow route to suicide with drugs and alcohol because it destroyed them. If people can die or get hurt because of how you do your job... THEN DO IT RIGHT.
In 2020 A US crew , fighting bush fires in Australia, perished in almost exactly the same reason as the C130 fire fighting aircraft. When a forest is burning it creates actual wind flows which can cause flames to rise several thousand feet into the air.
Speaking as a retired Firefighter and musician. The brilliant music played at the end of the video really helps to sooth my soul to the horrors involved. Can anyone assist me to find out the title of this music and composer please? My heart goes out to the aircraft crew and to their families.
As much as I have great respect for airmen, I feel only anger toward this crew in the first tragedy. How do you get into that position not knowing how to do the one job you had?
AF based performance is always based on 3 eng so pulling no 1 to idle emer shutting down and going max on 2,3, & 4 is text book while climbing to safe altitude
@ 7:06 the security camera was still. @ 7:16 the camera noticeably shook when the C-130 impacted the ground. I don't know how far away the security camera was from the point of impact but it drove home how violent the crash actually was. Chilling!
This aircraft has nts system , meaning it will feather automatically. Bank in to the good engine was next up. Then reduce some power on the #4 engine to make it easy. He could fly level not to climb to much and return to the field in a big right turn.
The comments are always entertaining. Yes, some critical mistakes were made, but everything is not a critical mistake. I would like to read the mishap report. The Herc doesn’t have a flight data recorder so there are assumptions being made. There is a CVR (after Ron Brown accident) so maybe some information gathered from that. If engine or prop maintenance had been performed an FCF (test flight) would have been flown by a qualified crew prior to and “operational” flight. Been 10 years at this point since I’ve flown the herc, but 96-98% would have been the ballpark to determine normal prop governing. This was a little low, but they say the engine failed. Gear, feather, flaps, fly. The most critical of which is getting the propeller feathered, which they appeared to do. Raising the dead engine 5 degrees bank is normal. Climb straight out while milking the flaps up if necessary. If they were headed to the bone yard I can’t imagine them being that heavy, (ten year brain) recall 140’s as 3 engine climb and Vmca3 around 100kts. 150’s should have been good. The bank into the dead engine was prolly the most critical error, prior to that they seemed to maintain “control” of the aircraft.
Entertaining to say the least. Flight Data Recorder and Cockpit Voice Recorder: some have and some don't. A lot of years and versions of C130's out there. Been with C130's outside of the US where things can get a little jenky to get the thing out of there, but Charlotte would have full resources. But even so. A test flight after engine work? Never heard of that one. A ground test run up? Sure. but a test flight? The video said that Torque dropped off along with rpm dropping below 96%. That would be a problem. Its not normal. Those few percent are a big deal on C130's Also talked about the plane fighting to go left off the run way when reject was still a possibility, so much so that it veered left on leaving the run way.
@@snakerstran9101 you have never heard of a test flight after engine work? When you say “Been with C-130’s” Did you work on or fly them? 96% is the prop speed not the engine speed.
I used to live right next to the bone yard. I was on East Golf Links in Arizona, and drove my GF to work, where we would pass it every day. Really cool place
a military c-130 left west yellowstone with prez bill clintons limos and other gear back when he was prez visiting the park---it took off and flew right into the mountains ,killing all,the crew was passing around lunch and had no clue to terrain awareness...
Geez, reminds me of the movie Saving Private Ryan, where the glider pilot had no idea of how much the Generals jeep weighed. Maybe the limo's were heavier than thought, with all of Wild Bill's party toys.
The first case was pretty clear failure of crew on the C-130. The second one, what put up the first red flag for me was the change of mission while airborne. It was likely one of the first dominoes, along with it being the 3rd run of the day. I know if I had been in the lead a/c I'd have been all over the radio to tell the larger tanker to abort run and climb. That guy failed them.
You would probably think by leaving flaps set as is it should give the HURC a helping hand for lift but those are causing a lot of drag. Even rivets a long the fuselage are considered parasite drag
I have over 10,000 hours as a Flight Engineer in P-3s. How the FE missed this is criminal, and the pilot turning into the dead engine is a newbie move. No PPC worth their wings would do this.
Since there isn’t a flight data recorder on the herc, I wonder how they knew the FE “missed” it? You can turn into the dead engine, but only with enough airspeed.
@@av8rgrip where did you hear that a C-130 doesn't have a flight recorder? I agree, that you can turn into the dead engine if you have enough speed. But SOP is to keep the dead engine up and climb out straight until you reach a safe altitude and airspeed
@@michaelsarkisian1047 I flew them. We had a cockpit voice recorder, but no flight data recorder. Our’s came off the assembly line in the ‘90s. Airforce referred to them as H3 models but the Navy and Marine Corp designated them C-130Ts. The Ron Brown accident is what caused the military to install CVRs. Now the C-40s and C-20’s might have a FDR because they were originally designed for civilian use, but don’t put it past the government to omit things from their orders in order to “save” money. I have also never known the P-3 to have an FDR. You say rookie move, I concur under certain circumstances. Again, I don’t know where they are getting their info without an FDR, but they are saying they departed controlled flight at 156 kts with the flaps at half. Approach speed for the herc was around 135 which should have been enough for the 19 degree bank they reference in the video. I would have to get into the books to know for sure and I would have to know their weight. The killer would have been adding the rudder. Who knows how they came to that conclusion. A more logical explanation is they let the airspeed drop off well below the referenced 156 kts. I also think the herc could have easily accelerated over 156kts with the flaps at half at the weight the plane would have been at for a ferry flight from the east coast to KDMA.
Strange. In the first video, it appears that the cockpit engine gauges were perfectly normal, even though the number 1 engine had given up. No wonder nobody noticed the problem. I've only done a little powered flight, but one of the very first things I was taught is that when banking, what you're doing is making the wing on the inside of the bank stall a little. If you've a failed engine on one side with a slight resulting bank to that side, then it's pretty obvious that you don't dip that wing deliberately, or use rudder to turn to that side, and make the stall worse.
Totally unrelated but I used to work as a cargo loader for Menzies Aviation at Schiphol airport Amsterdam. We received no training whatsoever and were told to work out for ourselves how to secure cargo, and 90% of our team were using drugs at work, ranging from heroin and cocaine to speed and cannabis. Menzies do absolutely no vetting whatsoever of their ground crews and choose the cheapest option available. I am surprised we never caused a fatal accident there, though it is inevitable that one day it will happen.
One time we went on 2 weeks AT to Aplena Michigan. Flew in on a C130. Well, the pilots decided they were going to practice a "combat landing" with a bird full of people. I thought we were fucking falling out of the sky and landed hard. I had to be restrained and escorted off the plane by my SNCO because I was cussing the pilots out up and down. Me: What in the actual fuck is wrong with you with that landing?! Pilot: O it was a combat landing Me: ARE WE IN FUCKING AFGHANISTAN? ARE WE IN IRAQ? NO, WERE IN FUCKING MICHIGAN. AIN'T NO FUCKING WAY IS THAT ACCEPTABLE. *cue me being restrained and forcibly taken off the plane*. No article 15 no LOR just a stern talking to.
Dear flight Channel although I know nothing about aeroplanes or flying I find your channel brilliant 👏 at times heroic at times sad the stories and detail you give are amazing. I just wondered has anyone ever done the Alive plane crash in the Andes? Just a thought. Anyway kudos 👏
ive seen some videos where while dropping a ton of fire retardant, they have to push the stick damn near all the way in which probably wouldn't be a good combination with a microburst
The incompetence of the C-130 flight crew departing Savannah is breathtaking. They decline a static takeoff even though there was no recent engine test; the engineer pays no attention to the problem developing on the #1 engine from the start of take-off. The pilot and copilot appeared to have no clue what flaps do and when they should be retracted or extended. The C-130 is designed to operate safely in 3,000 feet of runway or even less, which offered the opportunity to abort, yet when the pilots saw a problem, they did not abort their takeoff - even though the flight manual clearly said they should. The crew did not know how to fly the airplane with three engines even though the Hercules is designed so it can do so trivially if one engine fails. If they were going to commit suicide like that, shouldn't they have let the passengers deplane first? This is appalling.
I agree completely. This was the result of casual indifference and carelessness regarding takeoff procedures. It's almost like the crew adopted a persona akin to the plane and it's fate...flying off to the graveyard to be cannibalized and eventually scrapped during its long retirement. This was still an airframe that needed to be respected as a viable flying machine due all of the diligence and procedural adherence as a plane still in active service. Just appalling.
If I was riding a 53-year old motorcycle, I would take extra care (initially at least) regarding speed, brakes, steering, etc. This crew obviously agreed that they, and not just the aircraft, belonged in the Boneyard.
Couldn't agree more.
Another pilot who forgot the first rule in Aviation: "Speed is Life".
What were they thinking. Being a ferry flight they probably felt a little too relaxed and complacent. I’m thinking back to when I was cabin crew on a ferry flight. Tragic none the less and needless if the proper standard operating procedures were followed.
stall buffet in a C-130 is terrifying , it happened to me twice in a 24 year C-130 career as a flight engineer. One recovery was about 50 feet off the water, ground effect saved us that day.
I was a 1C and worked with aviators closely for over a decade. Nothing but respect for all of you for the jobs you do. A lot more balls than me to do that everyday
Bro carry’s his nuts over his shoulder big respect
With thousands of hours in the P-3, it's unbelievable how all 3 of those flight crew FAILED at doing their job.
Arrogance? Ineptitude? Poor training? Who knows
@@ellentronicmistress4969 bad intentions? Tick tock??
with that many hours, only complacency is left.
wouldn't you be extra paranoid flying something that old into retirement?
4*
Skidded turn stall. I was a military pilot. We had that demonstrated to us early in primary training. Place departs controlled flight quickly with an immediate loss of altitude. To do that in a C-130 takes some effort.
@karlwithak. I understand. The military rejected you because of your unfortunate sexual experimentation with farm animals. How is your job at Walmart going, btw?
@@karlwithak. Its hard to become a military pilot, unless you can check 3 or 4 DEI boxes. A high percentage of commercial pilots are former military pilots, so that means you can't feel safe flying at all.
@@karlwithak. Its ok sweety, you were treated so badly by that hateful military, not understanding you and all. But you can use what ever pronouns you like now and if you get really freaky, Milly Vanilly will fast track you through the ranks and make you a Major for his special parties.
Used to be a C-130 FE, back in the day. (30+ years before this event. We used to do an engine runup prior to first flight of the day. Not only to verify engine power, but to ensure prop low pitch stops were functioning. The FE on this flight failed miserably. There should have been a rejected takeoff early on. None of this should have happened.
I can only imagine the panic and terror of the crewmen when they realized they were going down with no way out. The first had a cluster of mistakes going on, but the second was doing what they could while lacking critical information being passed on to them. Both were such tragedies. RIP to all these men and prayers for their families. Thank you for another great presentation!
The ignorance and complete incompetence of the crew on the first crash was astounding!!
I agree Did anyone know what they were doing People on the ground were killed that day I too was shocked at the incompetence
The C-130 crashed less than 1 mile from where I was working. Just like in the video, the entire ground shook when it impacted, plus the huge explosion and large cloud of black smoke. The crash actually was very close the the GA PORTS Authority located in Savannah/ Port Wentworth, GA and the plane crashed next to and on a main highway, HWY 21, running EAST/WEST thru Port Wentworth to Savannah, GA. There were also a few people killed on the Hwy in their vehicles while driving. The Hwy was closed for days...I will NEVER forget that day. Thanks for the video!!!
You are incorrect Sir - no one on the ground were killed - only the airmen
@@flemmingstelling8079 you are exactly right, my mistake. But that is what was reported by local news right after it happened. Should have know, never trust the news, lol
First one: this is a huge feat to crash a C-130 in good flight condition (3 engines), they have done everything humanly possible!
Second one: conditions should have been clearly communicated, it's criminal for not stating the problem encountered on such high-risk flight without any margin.
The first accident the pilot in command as well as the right hand pilot failed to adjust the flaps; both were negligent and ignored a few signs that could have saved them
There have been a whole bunch of last flight incidents over the years, last flight either for the acft or a crew member. I think its possible that people lose concentration or get cocky and hot dog. Don't know about any individuals here, but often times these special flights get crew that might be rusty or have more clout than skills.
I witnessed the Savannah one. I saw it almost turn over before going down behind some trees and crashing on a road I travelled regularly. I still have dreams about it!
I work at the airport. We were on our way back from lunch and caught the Fireball on dashcam. We immediately knew a plane had gone down. After that all hell broke loose as Emergency services locked just about everything down.
I like how you explain it in simple terms that anyone can understand.
This crew really didn't have it together. Seems like they did everything possible to crash their aircraft.
That is the same story with a lot of these -- ignore problems that should stop the takeoff or don't know what to do when a problem occurs
Yep Air National Guard weekend warriorfrom PR inexperienced and lack of training as to compared to AD USAF.
Thanks for the refresh! A worthwhile enhancement.
Damn, he trained his whole life to do this one thing right. When it happened he did it all wrong. Damn! As a flight crew member this was my greatest fear, to fail at the moment I needed not to fail. What a nightmare.
Sounds like a classic case of "get-there-itis" combined with complacency.
@@paulis7319 or natural selection weeding out inferiors
JMo - nearly everyone in an occupation where life or limbs can be a consequence shares that little voice.
@@donoimdono2702 shhhhhh! Don't tell everyone we have little voices in our heads! 🤣
@@paulis7319 - I'm always hearing voices. Like the song says, I hear my dad telling me things, my mom, grandma, grandpa, wife, daughters, etc.
eeek! Just day before yesterday at a gun range I nearly felt SSgt. Kane slap the back of my head because I didn't immediately check the chamber on a rifle someone handed to me. 😂
When I was 9 years old Mrs. Endicott and her husband took me and the rest of my Cub Scout group from Grosse Ile to Selfridge Air National guard base in Michigan. He was a crewmember on these and I watched the heavy turboprop fly above me, and I vowed to myself that I would fly one of these.
I eventually wound up flying 747's and 767's....
@karlwithak. I'd rather not at this point.
Doesn't pay well enough-
Anyone notice when the plane crashed it sent a ground shock wave to the camera? which was a considerate distance.... 0_0
Yes, that was scary!
IKR.
Camera appeared to be at a truck stop 1.5-3 miles away, estimated.
Shook that camera good even before fireball seen !
RIP to those 9 Souls & their surviving families, in Jesus name !
The atmospheric shock can cause damage at a very considerable distance from the source of the blast. Very scary!
That was too far away for it to be a shockwave that quickly. Probably wind moving the camera. It would have taken several seconds for the shockwave to reach that far, if there was any.
@@1967250s
Maybe so or not.
Sound moves at 750 mph, which is 5 seconds per mile, and maybe it's only 1/2 mile distant, say, so that means shockwave EASILY makes it to camera in 2.5 seconds = quite easily what we saw, right ?
(The trees veiled the precise view, making the fireball appear delayed)
While learning to be a private pilot, it became clear to me that fixed wing planes flew themselves pretty well when everything was going right. My job in part was to deal with when things were not going right. Also not to put the plane in a situation that it was not intended to be in.
thats what airline pilots are paid for. sit there and hopefully know how to react and stay calm when necessary...
friends one. i couldnt handle the stress of just taking off i think. naw. thats a lot of metal to be in control of... especially when packed full of meat. gimme a lil two seater anyday!
Hope everyone stays safe fighting the huge Canadian fire. I'm a clueless not-a-pilot, just sending best wishes. Videos like this are very good for someone like me, though - because we non-pilots still appreciate learning a little that can make us appreciate what you heroic people do. Again, Best wishes!👍👍
The tail number was not 515. The aircraft tail number was actually 65-0968. It used to belong to the Regular Air Force and was stationed at Keesler Air Force Base in Biloxi Mississippi. I maintained Instrument Systems on this aircraft during that time period.
That same engine out crash scenario of a 130 happened at the Evansville, Indiana airport in the 1992. Crashed inverted into a hotel and restaurant killing a two in the restaurant and nine at a meeting in the hotel. A pilot trainee pushed on the wrong rudder during a simulated ending failure and the IP didn't catch it in time. I stayed at a hotel on the other side of the restaurant (same side of the road) the day before the accident and had met the server in the restaurant (a server and cook was killed) the day before she was killed. The nine people in the hotel conference room were burned to death.
What was up with that first crew? They didn’t seem to do anything right. However, I will say rest in peace to them and the firefighting crew.
They didn't do ANYTHING right. I've got 4000 hours as a C-130 Engineer, and that is who should have never let the plane leave the ground, he had plenty of time to spot the problem and call an abort. He should have also been in the pilots ear, reminding him to "raise the dead" meaning bank away from the dead engine. He should also have been running the engine shutdown checklist and made sure the co-pilot went flaps to zero and gear up as soon as possible. And I have NO idea why a pilot would bank into a dead engine and apply rudder into it as well. It was almost as though the entire crew were complete rookies who had never spent a day in a simulator.
Without going into the causes of the crash, it was a tragic outcome to our PRANG crew.
We will never forget them, and still pray for their families.
It's baffling and saddening how such accidents can occur. Prayers to those involved. Great quality vid as always!
I've been watching your videos and have been a member for years. Your videos are amazing and get better with each episode. I tell all my aviation friends about your channel and now they are hooked. Keep up the awesome work. I look forward to new episodes every week!
This video was published over 3 years ago. Why the refresh?
Theres a few videos I've thought the same thing about!
@@Anthony...0110 I think UA-cam’s content creator algorithm is so demanding that it forces creators to post very frequently to avoid losing channel exposure. This is why a lot of channels now post those awful shorts. If you don’t post frequently, you don’t get posted on feeds, your views drop off, and your income plummets. It’s dog-eat-dog like everything in this economic system.
I would rather watch a good refresh than a lousy short.
All the aircrash channels do it, so boring but I watch again anyway
Still,its a good video and I hadn’t seen it before, but I wonder about that sometimes too
That unstable air for the second C-130 was so heartbreaking. Such a cumbersome plane, even though USAF found fault (they have to, I suppose) with communications between pilots. There's doing thing by the book, then there's reality when things just go bad quickly. They lost their lives trying to save others. My respect to family and friends of ALL pilots and crew lost. Godspeed!
Well, honestly, the first pilot should have radioed the C-130 pilot and let them know what happened. Planes don't just get thrown to the ground for no reason. Even if he didn't realize it was a microburst, he could have said that something made his aircraft lose altitude and to beware.
@@dx1450 what’s a micro burst? Was the second wreck avoidable? If so how?
Thanks
@@RaceMentally A microburst is a large, heavy downdraft of air, usually caused by a storm cell collapsing on itself.
@@dx1450 was this accident preventable? Or is this one of those “sh1t happens”?
@@dx1450 Yeah, probably would have helped. The call to emergency dump must have been some sort of clue I guess. I wonder how high the terrain was. 7000' leaves quite a bit of maneuvering room above ground at sea level, but if terrain there was maybe 6000-6500', and they couldn't build up airspeed, maybe not enough time to do a lot any way.
In a different video there were some questions raised about the first plane’s crew experience and competency
I guess when your in last place in class, you get the job of flying heaps to the bone yard.
Duh!
There have been a whole bunch of last flight incidents over the years, last flight either for the acft or a crew member. I think its possible that people lose concentration or get cocky and hot dog. Don't know about any individuals here, but often times these special flights get crew that might be rusty or have more clout than skills.
Two sides of a story. If the pilots & crew were alive, they have their side of story.
I don't understand how they could make so many mistakes with so much time to correct.
it seems the crew on the Savannah crash were extremely careless. Sometimes you only get an only chance to be careless, and this was it.
Around 2005 I watched a C-130 take off from Chivenor, Devon, UK. Black smoke from engine 3. It did a low altitude turn over the sea but could not get back to base. Landed on the 2 mile beach. Good thing the tide was out. Maintenance crew on scene in minutes, fixed the engine and back in the air. No mention of it on the news.
May have been on the news had you filmed it all. And you might have made a few bob.
Back in the 80's I was with 4 C130's that stopped at Sacramento Ca. to refuel. We were all heavy with equipment plus fuel packed in to get us to Hawaii. First or second one taking off torched a engine late on takeoff. They get off the ground and immediately do a slow turn to come back. They also started crop dusting fuel immediately. Unfortunately they weren't high enough for the fuel to vaporize and it hit the ground, and a nearby freeway, and houses in the area.
The California Hwy Patrol actually showed up at the airport surprisingly quickly, drove right out onto the flightline to investigate. And they were pretty pissed, said it was quite the disaster.
The crew must have thought it was "Opposite Day" since they literally did everything the exact opposite of what they were supposed to do.
Those aircraft are some of the most hearty in the world. They have flown in Arctic, saharan desert type, And anything between for conditions.
There had to have been some serious problems on board the aircraft, As well as mistakes made by the crew for it to Have gone to ground the wrong way.
Was the crew in the 1st scenario aviation folks or cooks? They started out making mistakes and ignoring rules and just continued to screw up. WTF?
The tail code is PR Puerto Rico ANG crew Hmmm🤔
First off, condolences to the family's of all airmen involved. Second, What a absolutely amazing job job in making this video. The animation and editing are top notch!
@@karlwithak. Where does it say "real video"??? Think you read it wrong.
@@ChainsawFPV in the title. There IS some real footage from a security camera, though...
@@Nikolas_A I kno it was animated Thats why I said what I did.
@@ChainsawFPV you said "Where does it say "real video"??? Think you read it wrong.". And I said it says "Real Video" in the title.
@@Nikolas_A Ok so you confused me by putting that comment under mine. My comment says nothing about it being real video. While the events are real, the video is animated. That's why I complimented him on his editing skills.
Tragic mistakes were made - in the first clip, almost a "comedy of errors". Great recounting TFC,
Wow, just wow. This was all totally avoidable. 3 good engines and what I can only imagine a minimally loaded aircraft.
Also, a "rolling takeoff" does not preclude an engine run up which is part of the pre takeoff checklist.
There is no engine run-up on the C130, per say, other than the Flight Engineer doing his systems checks before the taxi. The rolling takeoff is not unusual at all. Not aborting the takeoff when the #1 engine was making low power is inexcusable.
What a stupID wow COMMENT!
Jebus. Was the Savannah flight crew (WC-130H) just a collection of box checkers? There was nothing but grave error after grave error.
You should never turn into an inoperable engine. So many mistakes were made it is really sad . RIP.
Never is an absolute. Sometimes it is unavoidable, the key is to have enough airspeed.
A good understanding of what makes a plane fly and a desire to do it would have saved their lives. Aircraft are not intended to stay in the air at under flight speed. That's why you slow down to land. When they already knew that they were losing speed and that they had the flaps on, lean into the working engines and reduce flap. Good God!
You know it's bad when the music starts playing before the crash.
Do these guys not study and memorize the Flight Manual?
In university, we actually studied our course materials.
I was trained that the run up is essential before take off. In an engine failure we were told to always fly the plane, declare an emergency and get it back on the ground ASAP, preferably on a runway.
As a previous pilot to the Lockheed WC-130H I can truly say that this plan was a piece of GARBITCH.
I'm an ARWO on the J
@@carpenjk didn't ask
In the Summer of 1970 I was on an Eastern Airlines 727 flying JFK - HOU. The only time I can remember a rolling takeoff. We taxiied to the runway and took a SHARP left turn and the pilot pushed the throttles forward. It was a seriously macho ride!
I don’t remember what airline it was but I had a rolling take off on flight to Europe from North America not to far back. I was surprised actually but I thought it was normal.
@@_Forever555 it is normal
Flew on C130s for 6 years. It's so hard to watch this. Places I've been with my own two feet planes I prolly saw with my own two eyes. Friends of friends. I never saw the incident report for the Savanna crew I was out by then but I imagine there had to be more to it. My unit was really close with the Charlotte folks. Sad days.
Eitherway, for anybody calling the Savanna crew incompetent I'll tell you that the C130 is a tough plane to fly, especially the H model. It's a beast and even the best of us can get behind the plane so to speak. I had close to 800 hours as a Loadmaster and I'll tell you at times it took everything I had. C130 crew are the best but sometimes that's just not good enough.
Well, I'm not with you on this deal with the PR crew. These were basic errors that they certainly would have been trained for. Most likely in simulator as well as flight training. And yes, crew incompetence was certainly a thing there.
It would be like a loadmaster not bothering to strap or chain the load because the flight route doesn't show any bad weather. So, hey, the parking brakes should be plenty. Or maintenance not bothering to safety wire components because, "those things never come loose".
@@snakerstran9101 I've been down to Puerto Rico and trained with a guy from that unit in school. I'm not going to say that they were the #1 C130 unit in the Airforce but they weren't incompetent. Like I said there's a lot that can go wrong on those planes even if you do everything right. Planes have crashed for some really cringe reasons before and it's easy to see all of the mistakes in the briefing room or when watching a UA-cam video when your feet are solidly on the ground but it's hard in the moment. There's a big difference between calling a crew incompetent and and saying that mistakes were made. My unit was top notch but there's several times I felt lucky to be alive. C130s are a tough plane to fly.
Many mistakes by the crew inevitably lead to this accident. Not sure what the flight engineer was up to, but checking engine performance was not one of them.
The PRANG crash is undescribibly sad and avoidable. The crew and leadership failures of the PRANG are shameful...but not surprising.
To include the forest fire crash with the PRANG crash is disrespectful to the forest fire crew.
I agree completely
It’s hard to believe that that was a certified crew. Like a bunch of kids stealing their dads plane.
I'm not sure how these two incidents are related other than that the crash involves the same type of plane, but the circumstances were completely different.
the banking stall and resulting crash seems strikingly similar to the B52 at Fairchild in Spokane.
This is absolutely ridiculous in every way imaginable.
I was learning RC airplanes and the only time a C-10 crashed good was when he flew it next to a hillside and got a sharp breeze going on that side, it basically flies almost as good as the A-10.
RICAN 68! we will never forget our brothers Jose, David, Carlos, Mario, Eric, Jan, Jean, Victor and Roberto
Isn’t there a flight engineer sitting just aft and between the pilots? Who job is to monitor the engines? Amazing lack of crew coordination. “No one in the cockpit”, WTF was the guy in the right hand seat doing? “Unrecognized by the crew”, ALL of them…..ridiculous. These guys are USAF trained, right? Is the Puerto Rican AirGuard that bad?
yes
I was on scene just after the crash shown in the first clip. A Puerto Rican C-130 on it's last flight being retired. Yes the PIC was pretty bad, but as a pilot myself with some experience flying for the DOD and a *lot* of military pilot friends, unfortunately this is not out of the ordinary for PR piloting.
What about the Fairchild B52 crash, or the C17 in Alaska; or perhaps de C5 crashes in Dover and Guam? All 'merica, stateside, good ol' boys pilots.
🤷🏾
@@friv3877 Every crash is different. All countries have pilots with varying degrees of proficiency. *Some* countries are known to have less overall proficient pilots than other countries. That's as tactful as I can state this.
Except that all the aforementioned are trained at the same schools and standards, because they are ALL US pilots; whether from PR, WA, AK, FL, etc.
Moreover, I can understand a crash due to mechanical failures....but showboating?
wow 5 seconds of real video ,touching soundtrack ! vultures
Shame there was no audio of the cockpit but i guess they didn't say anything to each other anyway. Sad it was this ships last voyage. The second flight I'm sure how quick a crew can respond to a microburst so i'd put that 50/50 weather/crew. The lead plane should have been more forceful to abort the mission and get out of there.
There is recorded audio and I only got to hear it one time from the Safety Investigation Board report. As a 130 maintainer it was important that we didn’t follow the culture of maintenance that was shown in the repairs prior to this incident.
That was a crazy day in Savannah 🙏🏼
I frequently jumped from Hercules planes but glad it wasn't that day
I live in Savannah and remember this happening. The plane crashed right in the middle of highway 21, which is a very busy 4 lane highway and the crash was mid day......the fact that plane hit no vehicles was nothing short of amazing and just luck. The actual video used in this video come from my sisters cctv security camera at her trucking company. I remember her showing it to me and she contacted the Army base across the street and they got a copy of it. Seeing that plane take off like it did and the pilots not caring was scary....they easily could've killed a bunch of people at that intersection had the plane landed 100 yards left or right.
Unfortunately the video leaves out the previous issues with the #1 engine from the first incident. The aircraft had issues with #1 on arrival and had been worked on by maintenance crews who performed incorrect procedures signing off the write-up. However that doesn't relieve the front end crew from letting this go from bad to worse during takeoff roll. By the time this accident occurred that Air Force had done away from engine runups on the first flight of the day. Rolling takeoffs are fine however due to the engine/prop work being done on #1 they should have paid more attention. The pilot could have rejected the takeoff when the plane veered left during takeoff roll. The flight engineer and/or co-pilot should have called a "reject" when the #1 RPM went out of limits. That was their job on takeoff roll...to monitor the engine instruments. However even though they messed that up that plane was easily flyable after takeoff even with #1 engine/prop going haywire. They continued bad airmanship and basically fubbared everything they had been taught about flying the airplane. Aviate, Navigate and Communicate. With coordinated flight controls this should have been an easy return to land.
Holy 💩, 🤯
I have one question about that first flight: What the heck was that commander doing? If I was flying the plane, I would have instinctively turned away from the bank instead of toward it. It would be hard to call it 'spatial disorientation' if you had plenty of visuals and midday lighting.
And you should be trusting your instruments if you don’t have any visuals, but they had visuals so like you said, spatial disorientation wouldn’t have been an excuse. It just seems like they were ignorant, or arrogant, or just didn’t care about actually flying the old bird and were determined to crash. It’s very strange
I am early. Greetings from South Africa.
In the second crash, it was stated that the aircrew all perished but nothing about the fate of the two loadmasters who, at the start of the video, were said to be onboard. Have I missed something? Did they disembark before the fatal flight?
I was a Loadmaster and asked that very question!
What happened to them??
When I was in the military, it wasn't my own death I was concerned about. It was other people getting killed because I screwed up. That's what kept me studying, practicing, drilling and not slacking off. I've known of people who lived with the knowledge that people died because they didn't do their jobs right. There were two types: Those who made excuses why it wasn't their fault and those who took the slow route to suicide with drugs and alcohol because it destroyed them. If people can die or get hurt because of how you do your job... THEN DO IT RIGHT.
The shaking of the security camera is haunting
In 2020 A US crew , fighting bush fires in Australia, perished in almost exactly the same reason as the C130 fire fighting aircraft. When a forest is burning it creates actual wind flows which can cause flames to rise several thousand feet into the air.
This video recreated my tinnitus perfectly
Speaking as a retired Firefighter and musician. The brilliant music played at the end of the video really helps to sooth my soul to the horrors involved. Can anyone assist me to find out the title of this music and composer please? My heart goes out to the aircraft crew and to their families.
I was a witness to the Savannah crash, very sad and amazing more people didn't die as the aircraft hit the busy RT-21.
As much as I have great respect for airmen, I feel only anger toward this crew in the first tragedy. How do you get into that position not knowing how to do the one job you had?
"How do you get into that position not knowing how to do the one job you had?"
Keeping up appearances costs lives.
May they rest in peace.. 🙏🙏🙏🙏
Banking in the direction of a dead engine? Wow.
Repost?
Yes. Seen before. But good nonetheless.
@@lightaswego6818 I appreciate your confirmation.
Boy, those guys just messed everything up.
Left rudder into the failed #1 !? Why not right rudder, idle #4 and max 2&3, etc ? We'll never know.
AF based performance is always based on 3 eng so pulling no 1 to idle emer shutting down and going max on 2,3, & 4 is text book while climbing to safe altitude
@ 7:06 the security camera was still. @ 7:16 the camera noticeably shook when the C-130 impacted the ground. I don't know how far away the security camera was from the point of impact but it drove home how violent the crash actually was. Chilling!
I found the flight channel finally lll😄
This aircraft has nts system , meaning it will feather automatically. Bank in to the good engine was next up. Then reduce some power on the #4 engine to make it easy. He could fly level not to climb to much and return to the field in a big right turn.
It seems like the c130 is pretty hearty and forgiving but even that doesn’t compensate for incompetence
On that real video after the impact you can see that camera shake for a second how much destructive the crash was.
Can anyone tell me what the music track is called the last 50 odd seconds of the video please.
The comments are always entertaining. Yes, some critical mistakes were made, but everything is not a critical mistake. I would like to read the mishap report. The Herc doesn’t have a flight data recorder so there are assumptions being made. There is a CVR (after Ron Brown accident) so maybe some information gathered from that. If engine or prop maintenance had been performed an FCF (test flight) would have been flown by a qualified crew prior to and “operational” flight. Been 10 years at this point since I’ve flown the herc, but 96-98% would have been the ballpark to determine normal prop governing. This was a little low, but they say the engine failed. Gear, feather, flaps, fly. The most critical of which is getting the propeller feathered, which they appeared to do. Raising the dead engine 5 degrees bank is normal. Climb straight out while milking the flaps up if necessary. If they were headed to the bone yard I can’t imagine them being that heavy, (ten year brain) recall 140’s as 3 engine climb and Vmca3 around 100kts. 150’s should have been good. The bank into the dead engine was prolly the most critical error, prior to that they seemed to maintain “control” of the aircraft.
Entertaining to say the least. Flight Data Recorder and Cockpit Voice Recorder: some have and some don't. A lot of years and versions of C130's out there.
Been with C130's outside of the US where things can get a little jenky to get the thing out of there, but Charlotte would have full resources.
But even so. A test flight after engine work? Never heard of that one. A ground test run up? Sure. but a test flight?
The video said that Torque dropped off along with rpm dropping below 96%. That would be a problem. Its not normal. Those few percent are a big deal on C130's
Also talked about the plane fighting to go left off the run way when reject was still a possibility, so much so that it veered left on leaving the run way.
@@snakerstran9101 you have never heard of a test flight after engine work? When you say “Been with C-130’s” Did you work on or fly them? 96% is the prop speed not the engine speed.
I used to live right next to the bone yard. I was on East Golf Links in Arizona, and drove my GF to work, where we would pass it every day. Really cool place
a military c-130 left west yellowstone with prez bill clintons limos and other gear back when he was prez visiting the park---it took off and flew right into the mountains ,killing all,the crew was passing around lunch and had no clue to terrain awareness...
Geez, reminds me of the movie Saving Private Ryan, where the glider pilot had no idea of how much the Generals jeep weighed. Maybe the limo's were heavier than thought, with all of Wild Bill's party toys.
The first case was pretty clear failure of crew on the C-130. The second one, what put up the first red flag for me was the change of mission while airborne. It was likely one of the first dominoes, along with it being the 3rd run of the day. I know if I had been in the lead a/c I'd have been all over the radio to tell the larger tanker to abort run and climb. That guy failed them.
The MACHINE must NOT fail
You would probably think by leaving flaps set as is it should give the HURC a helping hand for lift but those are causing a lot of drag. Even rivets a long the fuselage are considered parasite drag
This video really hurt my head. Such a total failure by every single member of that crew. Sad.
Would it have been possible to cut power to the opposite side engine #4 to balance control?
Did the loadmasters in the second incident survive? They werent mentioned among the casualties..
Sadly… Totally Preventable In Many Ways… 🙏 🇺🇸 RIP
I have over 10,000 hours as a Flight Engineer in P-3s. How the FE missed this is criminal, and the pilot turning into the dead engine is a newbie move. No PPC worth their wings would do this.
Since there isn’t a flight data recorder on the herc, I wonder how they knew the FE “missed” it? You can turn into the dead engine, but only with enough airspeed.
@@av8rgrip where did you hear that a C-130 doesn't have a flight recorder? I agree, that you can turn into the dead engine if you have enough speed. But SOP is to keep the dead engine up and climb out straight until you reach a safe altitude and airspeed
@@michaelsarkisian1047 I flew them. We had a cockpit voice recorder, but no flight data recorder. Our’s came off the assembly line in the ‘90s. Airforce referred to them as H3 models but the Navy and Marine Corp designated them C-130Ts. The Ron Brown accident is what caused the military to install CVRs. Now the C-40s and C-20’s might have a FDR because they were originally designed for civilian use, but don’t put it past the government to omit things from their orders in order to “save” money. I have also never known the P-3 to have an FDR.
You say rookie move, I concur under certain circumstances. Again, I don’t know where they are getting their info without an FDR, but they are saying they departed controlled flight at 156 kts with the flaps at half. Approach speed for the herc was around 135 which should have been enough for the 19 degree bank they reference in the video. I would have to get into the books to know for sure and I would have to know their weight. The killer would have been adding the rudder. Who knows how they came to that conclusion. A more logical explanation is they let the airspeed drop off well below the referenced 156 kts. I also think the herc could have easily accelerated over 156kts with the flaps at half at the weight the plane would have been at for a ferry flight from the east coast to KDMA.
Strange. In the first video, it appears that the cockpit engine gauges were perfectly normal, even though the number 1 engine had given up. No wonder nobody noticed the problem.
I've only done a little powered flight, but one of the very first things I was taught is that when banking, what you're doing is making the wing on the inside of the bank stall a little. If you've a failed engine on one side with a slight resulting bank to that side, then it's pretty obvious that you don't dip that wing deliberately, or use rudder to turn to that side, and make the stall worse.
Totally unrelated but I used to work as a cargo loader for Menzies Aviation at Schiphol airport Amsterdam. We received no training whatsoever and were told to work out for ourselves how to secure cargo, and 90% of our team were using drugs at work, ranging from heroin and cocaine to speed and cannabis. Menzies do absolutely no vetting whatsoever of their ground crews and choose the cheapest option available. I am surprised we never caused a fatal accident there, though it is inevitable that one day it will happen.
One time we went on 2 weeks AT to Aplena Michigan. Flew in on a C130. Well, the pilots decided they were going to practice a "combat landing" with a bird full of people. I thought we were fucking falling out of the sky and landed hard. I had to be restrained and escorted off the plane by my SNCO because I was cussing the pilots out up and down.
Me: What in the actual fuck is wrong with you with that landing?!
Pilot: O it was a combat landing
Me: ARE WE IN FUCKING AFGHANISTAN? ARE WE IN IRAQ? NO, WERE IN FUCKING MICHIGAN. AIN'T NO FUCKING WAY IS THAT ACCEPTABLE.
*cue me being restrained and forcibly taken off the plane*. No article 15 no LOR just a stern talking to.
Clueless lieutenants are nothing new😂
But..but..but.. I can't be wrong, look! I'm a Major! Pretty badges and everything!
that old bird may have been thinking 'retire me? send me to the bone yard? I'll show you'
Dear flight Channel although I know nothing about aeroplanes or flying I find your channel brilliant 👏 at times heroic at times sad the stories and detail you give are amazing. I just wondered has anyone ever done the Alive plane crash in the Andes? Just a thought. Anyway kudos 👏
That was heartbreaking
ive seen some videos where while dropping a ton of fire retardant, they have to push the stick damn near all the way in which probably wouldn't be a good combination with a microburst