Something I didn’t cover in the video is the marketing, (or the lack of marketing) for Rugby’s stars! Is the onus on the RFU, the individual rugby clubs or the players themselves to promote the best talent? If you’d like to add to the discussion leave a comment below or join the conversation at www.thelongplay.co.uk. Thank you for watching the video 🙏🏾
Nice video! just one thing on your final suggestion is that the north of England has a more traditional 'Rugby League' player base. Whereas the south is more 'Rugby Union' that's why there are fewer Union teams in the north.
An important point, IMO, relating to players going abroad for money is that to play for the England national team, you need to be playing in England. This is clearly artificially pushing players into playing in England during the peak of their career. My belief is that if this artificial hurdle wasn't in place, the Premiership would fall off dramatically. The organic, natural competiveness of the Premiership is not there. So I think the problem of English rugby being in a bad spot might actually be worse that what you are describing. 2nd point, The north of England is generally more focused on Rugby League, rather than Rugby Union. That explains, or partially at least, why there are fewer Union teams in the north of England.
I think something else worth mentioning is that American football is increasing in popularity in the uk and most people who play it at a amateur level here used to play rugby and moved over for varying reasons but this hurts view count of rugby as they now watch a different sport
A fascinating take. What are some of the varying reasons you speak of? A pretty damning indictment that NFL can “come over here” and take some market share too.
@@TheLongPlayUK The reasons mainly are based on how American football is played as the positions tend to do parts of ruby more and other bits less, eg: the oline and dline go into a scrum every play so around one starting 40ish seconds after the last one, the rugby players who love scrums and less so other aspects of the sport enjoy this and its the same with other roles too like running back and wide receiver tend to rum and catch whereas dbs and linebackersdo lots of tackling Another reason of transferring from rugby is the culture of social events and the stereotype of rugby lads The pads and helmet can be a turn off for rugby players until they learn it means harder tackles can be made and everyone can play more aggressively on the pitch
Rugby in England has made no effort to try and grow in state schools-where the majority of people come from. Relying on private schools was a bubble waiting to burst
@@TheLongPlayUK Gatekeeping, classism and tradition. If you don't get into a pro rugby academy by 15-18 years of age in Scotland, England and Wales then you're never going to play professionally. These academies only really target private schools and the few state school players that do get in are often looked down upon by their teammates.
@@Shendersonsports3003 There are well documented cases that show this isn't universal. Alex Dombrandt, for example, to not cite the usual one (Ellis Genge). Not saying nepotism etc. doesn't happen, but there's good evidence this is an improving state.
Great video! It’s a strange one. I will watch any international rugby game at any time- WC, Six Nations, Autumn Friendlies or whatever but have could count the clubs games I have watched on one hand. It’s interesting to see that I am clearly not alone in this and it is great to hear you explain through the potential reasons behind this and the economic impacts
Thank you George. The internationals on at the moment highlight the point. Amazing support at international level yet this does not seem to cascade down to the domestic game. Hopefully things change in the coming years.
@ I completely agree. I have really enjoyed the recent internationals, even if Ireland (my team) don’t seem to be on top of the world anymore. However, these internationals being on BT (or TNT or whatever it is called now) is a textbook example of short term gain (TNT paycheque)for a long term loss (not being able to reach a wider audience on free to view and subsequently grow the game)That does seem to be a wider issue though with the fragmentation of steaming across sports and other media in general anyway though.
There’s a lot of merit to this analysis but it is important to recognise that England is an isolated case study of decline for rugby - the sport is thriving and increasing in popularity in France, South Africa, Japan and Ireland so the overall health of sport is still solid
Agree with your overall point but the picture in Australia and Wales isn't great either, and even in NZ things aren't as strong as they've been historically
@@99RMLyh I agree tbh I forgot abt the Australia problem until I saw someone else comment abt it altho I’d argue without rugby league then union would be more popular altho I understand the flaws of that argument
This is fair. I planned to A/B test the title with “English Rugby” too so by time you see this comment it may have changed! In the section comparing the trend to other sports I wanted to spend time here comparing to other rugby union playing countries but I couldn’t find like-for-like metrics in each location so it made it tricky.
Jordan, I'm SO glad you touch about rugby digital footprint. Cant imagine how much publicity and potential missed revenue RFU & Premiership have lost not showcasing their stars (a lot of times up and coming)
Also, love Squidge Rugby. He's done wonders for getting people engaged and watching the game, people who might say, yeah, let's get a (really expensive) TNT sub and start watching the Prem but no, copyright strike him instead and try to shut him down. Madness.
@@patrickchilds2987 From on outsiders perspective while I wouldn't use the same language as the guy above I would say the English mentality is unique. The RFU are definitely the problem IMO - they are an organisation too rooted in the past. I'd also argue Eddie Jones being sacked after making those comments about private schools was questionable to say the least, my theory is he touched a nerve with the higher ups and was doomed from that point on
@@OscarOSullivan i agree thats exactly my point - I think he was probably doomed from the moment he made those comments and the RFU were looking to sack him ever since
One thing that people always forget when comparing England with France is that, despite the support for both national teams is pretty much the same, the club support is vastly different. This is because english club sides only played friendlies up until the 80's (at the time "gentleman games"). Tis came from the idea of amateur sports that the important thing is the game itself, not the result. This happened also because the RFU feared that creating a league system would lead to professionalism. Compare that to France, where their clubs have been competing against eachother for more than a century, and it becomes obvious why France has almost 3 fully professional leagues and England does not. The clubs in France established rivalries and fanbases for decades and english clubs have only recently started to do that.
I'm big fan of your work and rugby, so I was keen to hear your take on the state of the game in England (and globally). It might not quite be 'adapt or die' just yet, but it's not far off...much can be learned from cricket!
The thing about cricket was that they didn't radically change the game. Just the length of it. Same rules, same complexity. And they sell the game in the biggest market in the world - India, where cricket is basically the unifying religion.
Not sure why you used a map of the UK to point out that there are no Premiership teams in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland? They all have their own URC teams, and their own financial issues
I think the biggest problem with the English Premiership at the moment is the lack of teams. Two things they're doing well with this season: 1. Showing a live game on ITV each weekend, making it accessible to casual fans and people unable or unwilling to pay for TNT Sports. 2. Coverage by BBC Radio 5 Live on Saturday and Sunday. But with only 10 teams that's only 5 games spead across Friday night, Saturday and Sunday. When I'm listening to Radio 5 on a Saturday afternoon it's so stark the contrast between almost a hundred football teams playing games over the weekend vs only 10 rugby teams. There's no wonder the value of the broadcasting is so low with so few teams and so few games. The Premiership needs two or four more teams in my opinion.
They had the teams but they collapsed! All of them struggled to find suitors to keep them alive. Sad state of affairs. Opening the league to expansion would probably do a lot of good but its not an easy process.
@@TheLongPlayUK Wasps and Worcester were both mismanagement. London Irish, the guy just wanted out and couldn't find a buyer. Who wants to waste millions of pounds a year on a rugby team? In football a team has 23 home league games. In Premiership rugby they have 9. That's not enough to generate enough income. But it's not easy to get more teams. The RFU Championship teams don't play in proper stadiums and have much smaller budgets. If a team was promoted it would probably lose every game and go bust.
Helping to promote the second and third tier would help. Also mandate a public broadcaster gets to broadcast every single match even if there are fewer features and less fancy camera shots vs the pay to view broadcaster. Rugby grew in popularity because RTÉ broadcasted the Irish provinces playing in the Heineken Cup for years. Things like increasing the amount of matches played would help, stop overpaying players, coaches and senior staff and get the various Union branches to be owners and organisers of the clubs.
@@OscarOSullivan yes they should do that. Facilities in National League 1 are no worse than those in the Championship. If they broadcast the games it would raise the profile and more people would support their local team.
It has always baffled me that Twickenham can sell nearly 90,000 seats, all at top dollar, for every match, even a barbars match. Yet for Women's internationals, they close the third tier in the stadium. And furthermore, you can to Allianz and watch Sarries Tigers, two of the top teams, and still see empty seats in a small stadium, in north London, in a rich area (although the ground is notoriously hard to reach by public transport). Yet, with a well marketed top clash held at Spurs for Sarries Quins, they can sell that out no problem. The difference in all of them is marketing and social sells, imo. And for all the lost talents knocking about on council estates across the land, it makes me sad for the future of the game. Makes me sadder for all the internationals who care more for the cash then playing for England. I don't blame them one bit. They need to secure their futures, that matters more than caps. England are losing some top players and it just improves French rugby by having them there instead. We've seen what's happened to Wales, something needs to be done. The RFU needs to hand all their profits to all the teams up and down the leagues. And it needs to do way more to improve the women's game, like cricket has done. The WXV had like 5,000 fans to watch the two best teams play, one of them was the host nation, even fewer for the last WC final rematch. No one is pushing it. Bill Beaumont needs to stand down. Get someone vibrant with some ideas in there. Everyone slagged the Hundred when they brought that in in cricket, attendances through the roof, children turning up and then choosing to play and it's a big money spinner for the counties that have teams. We need a similar attitude with rugby.
Seems like the obvious place to start and quite a “simple” fix doesn’t it. I’m not sure what the argument is to not embrace social in a greater fashion
Something not said in this but applies to the Jeopardy part of the video is the reformatting of the Champions Cup, rugby’s answer to the Champions League. A few years ago, the cup changed its format to something much closer to the current Champions League. Over the last few years, this has made the group stage of the tournament feel ancillary and insubstantial, with the tournament’s financial value falling as a result. The knock on effect I think it has had is that qualifying for the top spots in Europe doesn’t feel like an accomplishment anymore. This means that in the table, teams don’t really care unless they’re in the knockouts and even then if you’re drawn against the top team in the league your season is just done. Europe’s reformatting has had the knock on effect of hurting every league and the Premiership is no different.
I know this is focussed on the English pro game, but from a grassroots perspective, the game isn't sustainable in its current form either. The big focus on the 3pm Saturday kickoff and a booze-up in the clubhouse afterwards doesn't fit in with the more sober Gen-Z or with Dads wanting to be more hands on with ther kids. When I became a new Dad it became depressing leaving my toddler at lunchtime and coming home to him already fast asleep. And I'm a referee! I can only imagine what it's like for the players who are getting beaten up every week as well. Every time I get a survey from the RFU I say that kickoff times are the main reason I haven't engaged with the game more. If matches started in late morning and were finished with a lunch at the clubhouse that's a massive barrier to engagement removed. And it gives more time for the people who do have the freedom to stay at the clubhouse to watch the Prem/International games and put more money into the club. Not a single club near me seems to have picked this up. And the thing is, most clubs still do really well at a junior level, and more and more women are playing. Rugby is just as much of a 'family' sport as it ever has been, but most clubs fail to adapt to modern living. And this doesn't even touch on the legit fears people hae over concussions.
Great insight thank you for sharing. Concussions are a point I did not speak on in the video causing a massive dent in participation at Junior Level. When, in your opinion would be an optimal Kick-Off time?
As a Munster and Ireland supporter and player in a lower competition club side it is not up to the URC club teams to bail English clubs out. The problem is unlike the IRFU branches who had long established provincial teams which come from the four provinces which used to be higher kingdoms English clubs went from being owned and run by local branch types with committees to being owned like top soccer clubs. At least you have been fair and not said anything like no one cares about rugby (8 and a half million so registered players and high attendances and viewership at least with the URC, 6 nations and RWC disproves that), just that rugby union has always had its strongholds (Limerick, Cork, Suburban Dublin, Wicklow, Welsh Valleys, Southwest France, much of the English southwest, New Zealand, Western and Eastern Cape of South Africa etc and parts of the English midlands). The onus is on unions to grow the game and get it into places it never existed before places like the Liberties, Tallaght, Clondalkin Irish Gaeltachts and most of the Irish countryside. Appears to be working in Ireland with clubs in the Gaeltachtaí, Liberty Saints RFC in D8, Tallaght RFC and Clondalkin RFC, An Ghaeltacht Rugbaí etc. We are starting to see that with Tom Ahern, Edogbo brothers, Jamie Osborne, etc. More needs to be done but when the likes of those three grassroots Dublin clubs start providing most of the players to their local province then things will be definitely changing. Rugby union for me is an exciting sport to watch with the varying ways to score with last minute drop goals or penalty kicks in do or die matches are just as exciting as last minute tries. Also cross pitch kicks like the one Jack Crowley as outhalf kicked to Calvin Nash to score a clean running try adds to it. It is also the history with the 6 Nations having a lineage going back to 1884 and the likes of the Calcutta cup and Triple Crown being some of the oldest contests in sports history. The derby matches and their history no matter how old. The stadiums like Thomond Park with a fantastic atmospheric crowds or Landsdowne in the 2022-2023 URC semi final or 2021-2022 Munster vs Toulouse Heineken Cup quarter final. The summer test series Or when Ireland beat the All Blacks for the first time in 2017 and the first time in New Zealand in summer of 2022. For me the 2022-2023 Munster vs Stormers URC final is one of the greatest club matches, as you mentioned you are a Man United fan before Munster won that final Munster had won in an older format of that competition in 2011 that was the last time before that final that Munster won silverware and they entered their wilderness years bouncing coaching ticket to coaching ticket poor performance to poor performance. Things like how at least here in Ireland players names are kept off the jerseys. Speaking of jerseys rugby union teams have played in the same kits since their founding or for a very long time. Also who does not like hooped jerseys which are most common in rugby union. It is the fact that extra time is rare, that Munster vs Toulouse quarter final being an exception. The interesting points race and conceding penalties in your 22 on a torrent rainy night leaving you behind the opposition. At a regular club level the level of fun and the inclusivity regarding shapes and sizes (still rings true at top flight but to a lesser extent these days). If you are large, strong and heavy you can be a prop or hooker if a bit lighter and more of a runner then a lock if you are quite a good runner but still larger but not as large and strong a flanker if not that a 8 man. Good at concentrating and good with your feet an outhalf, if you are a very fast runner a wing etc. When it comes to grassroots rugby is quite simple you just needs socks, boots, shorts, gum shield and jersey. I agreed on the social media clips plenty of people have been posting them for years. 14,15,16 year old club and test clips. I think the RFU should invest and promote the lower leagues as the local team. For christ’s sake the standards there have come on leaps and bounds there.
I think having the 4 Welsh teams and revamping the Premiership would do the game a lot of good. Think they should increase their marketing when football has international breaks to try and seize the vacuum and gain viewers. My idea how to revamp: Conference 1(West): Gloucester Bath Exeter Scarlets Ospreys Dragons Cardiff Bristol Conference 2 (East): Harlequins Saracens Northampton Leicester Sale Newcastle Wasps? Ealing? Two conferences of 8. Teams play each team in their conference twice, then at end of season teams in other conference once. H/A divide alternates every other year like six nations to ensure fairness over uneven numbers. Teams that finish 1st get automatic bye to semi-finals of playoffs which take place at neutral venues. 2nd and 3rd advance to quarter finals, hosted by second place teams. Winners go to semi-finals and winners of them go onto grand final. The two 8th place teams enter relegation zones. The one with worse overall record is automatically relegated, 2nd worst enters a promotion/relegation playoff with 2nd place team from championship.
East and West, NBA style. Fascinating. More games would be good. This in turn increases the number of matches a broadcaster "buys" which in theory should flood more ££ into the game. I dont see many holes in this plan, its very well thought out
Jordan, new subscriber here - loved the video. Would love to see you explore the current state of Super League, the RFL and the direction they’re heading in.
It would be interesting to see you do a video on Rugby League (Predominantly in the North of England) comparing it to Union. RL has been growing and doing a lot of stuff right recently in England, although it’s smaller, it is much more sustainable and has a great causal fan base. Much bigger than Union in Australia as well!
9:15 - expansion of the premiership is all very well, but Newcastle Falcons are already flushing themselves down the toilet. There's a big issue here - even in the heartlands of Rugby Union, the crowds you get are very small, and the stadiums themselves are similarly small. Saracens capacity at the StoneX is 10K. It's laughable when Millwall FC have a capacity of double that, and are way off top flight football. With the current business model, rugby needs people who don't mind giving their millions and never needing to see that cash again.
It feels like a long road back for rugby. It’s always felt like a more elitist sport, and representation in public schools is poor. Some great suggestions on how to turn it around 👏🏾
You briefly touched on it but yes, Rugby as a whole is awful at social media fan engagement and marketing itself even to its own existing fanbase let alone a potential new/casual fanbase. When the Premiership and Champions Cup finals were taking place they were barely promoted on their social media channels. It's probably why you're seeing World Rugby always mentioning attracting new fans whenever any new law or competition (Nations Championship) is launched. Because they recognize that the sport is currently facing an existential crisis in terms of relevancy with the current generation.
It's madness when you think about it! All the thriving rugby nations and competitions are the ones that have an all-year-round presence on social media. The URC, Top 14, etc. Even the British & Irish Lions know that engagement is crucial for fan investment
Sadly it has been on the decline for a number of years due to its overall poor management. The finances simply do not add up for many clubs and that gap has to be filled by owners. Having worked for one of the clubs you mentioned that is still competing, that sport needs to come together and come up with a sustainable plan for the future while realising in order for this to work, they need all the other clubs around them rather than taking a self centred approach to it. It is also needs to understand what realistically they can achieve with the sport, like you mentioned you cannot compare it with football and therefore needs a different approach in order to solve the issues it is facing.
Thank you Matthew for the insight. I am not sure of the club you worked for but having been on the "inside" do you think there is anything clubs can do themselves that can help the situation?
@@TheLongPlayUK No worries at all, it is was a great video. I think the salaries need to reflect what they can realistically afford rather than keeping up with a cap they have spent. Trying to compete with other clubs outside of England for salaries is just unrealistic. If you ever fancy a chat about it, happy to chat!
Covid hastened the sport's decline, but fundamentally the RFU has been mismanaging it for years now - mostly because of greed and elitism. They turned on Eddie when he warned them that they need to develop the game more in underprivileged areas, softening the rules a bit for overseas players to still represent England, and easing/removing the salary caps so that the market could drive advertising directly. I also think that the RFU needs to go on a marketing blitz like SA Rugby did - there simply aren't enough clinics, school visits, and public appearances to actually allow England's rugby heroes to increase the exposure of the game. If the game traditionally appeals to the upper middle-class, and the country is seeing the largest decline in that demographic in decades, then the marketing needs to be recalibrated. Siya Kolisi coming from living in a shack to being the Springbok captain literally transformed the prospects of the game in South Africa, England needs to get more public exposure for players like Ellis Genge who came from a rougher background and can appeal to a far wider audience.
Rugby is the national sport in SA. There's a big difference - they've totally reached a whole new set of people who were totally disenfranchised, but it has always been a very well represented sport in SA. In England, football is the thing, and nothing will change that. They can visit the schools, but in general there are hardly anyone in your average English school who will play at that school.
@BenRelle football was what most South Africans watched, and now it's rugby. It's not inconceivable that we can increase viewership and participation in England by changing the way the game is marketed and where it's grassroots development is focused. I don't see it replacing football either, but the entropy we're seeing now will only degrade the sport further. If SA is an unpalatable comparison for you, then look at France instead - who have literally done the same.
@@Tarrimaster I'd say that where SA succeeded was giving fair opportunities to the population to play rugby based on a very obvious characteristic. And far from being unpalatable, I think this was utterly right and overdue. Some of the 'most people watching football' was a complete lack of representation from the majority population in the national sport. France hasn't done the same - it's connected club and national team, and this has done wonders for the game there, but it hasn't grown massively there in terms of it's only played in certain regions in France (holidaying in Burgundy during the world cup year in France, you couldn't even buy a national French rugby kit in the local Decathlon). It's healthy, but it's not universal. Not saying British rugby isn't in decline, or that nothing should be done, I'm just saying that comparing our situation with other nations is not a simple 'they did that there, so why don't we do that here?' thing. There's more nuance.
I think a really great player to mention here would have been Louis Reece-Zammit who is the 23 year old star Winger for Wales and has left rugby to play in the NFL
Excellent point. Could have, and should have been an easy mention. He had no desire to play international rugger, he went straight to the States for a remote chance at the NFL. Quite an indictment on the game
Rugby needs to market more like how the NFL does. Have you seen Nfl official on UA-cam its they give you alot of info on the sport, players, structure and the history.
The only viable rugby products- Rugby 7’s and NRL. International Rugby union can remain popular, but as a union fan from Ireland, growing up in a union area- League takes all the most watchable and memorable moments of ‘rugby’ and leaves the slow rucks, scrums, constant territory kicking, leaving just the ‘best’ parts of rugby. The NRL’s origin and finals product doesn’t compare to the rugby world cup final, as it is simply leagues above it in media coverage( domestic australian), storylines, player brand and actual gameplay. One origin series creates more highlights than a full season of URC, Super Rugby and 6 nations highlights together. That can’t really be argued- they are different games, with many common elements. League was made, and is still made to sell. Union is made to ………. we are not sure. International rugby union and local union may be interesting but top level league is such a better product its embarrassing. Union needs change- what that is, I dont know unfortunately
Fascinating isn’t it, it’s almost like the governing bodies don’t know what to do either. 7s imo should have more media coverage too. A missed opportunity there
I'd say that is your opinion. And mine is that NRL is mega boring. Even as an ex-league player, I find the 13 man game so boring these days. I mean it's basically 5 tackles, hope you get close enough to the try-line and either grubber it in, or bang it up in the air and hope you end up with your team touching down for a try. I really don't see the appeal. Origin isn't even played at the weekend - nobody really cares about it as it's so one sided - I watched it this time around and it was over by mid-way through the first game. I will agree with you that it is very well marketed.
From personal experience, rugby is really hard to get into. Both in terms of watching it and playing it. Especially if you're new to the sport. Football is so much easier to watch and play, hence why young people tend to chose football over rugby. Also there's a serious marketing issue with rugby, I could not name you 5 rugby players even if I tried. But easily name you at least 5 NFL players, and I don't even watch American football. Marketing is very important for the growth of a sport.
I agree with some of the points here but I always compare rugby and cricket. On the face of it, the rules of cricket are just as complex as rugby, if not more complex. To add to that, you can’t see the batsmen’s faces. The best games can last 5 days. LBW is impossible to explain 😂 Thats not an easy sell either. But the game is in a completely different place to rugby. So I don’t think “hard to get into” is an excuse rugby can use
@@TheLongPlayUK That's a good point. Although I do think that cricket has an advantage in the grassroots levels compared to rugby, but i see what you mean.
Whereas France and Ireland allowed and encouraged their leagues and teams to compete, grow and flourish, the ERFU and WRFU quite literally regulated their teams into relative mediocrity and the Premier League league into inferiority. We also have a ridiculous domestic cup format from which fans are massively disconnected. European rugby also suffers now from confusing and disengaging tournament formats.
@@TheLongPlayUK ah hey you are welcome. Thank you for taking the time to look into it. I think you are bang on in terms of the failure to expand rugby out to other parts of the country, ages, demographics. They are sort of trapped in the early decisions they made when the sport went pro. Still very private school based, not spread around the country. The RFU make so much money from Twickenham they can’t afford to have England matches played around the country. And the television broadcaster only just got an instagram account set up this year. They keep trying rule changes for the game but really it’s about how it’s sold to the masses and how you get them involved with the players playing the games and then teach to enjoy the technicalities when watching it. It’s certainly not great 😂 but I love the sport itself so fingers crossed for the future. Keep up the great work!
Rugby Union had no business turning professional at all, its appeal will always be to players, ex-players and a few of their family members, that's it. Union in the UK is an upper class minority sport except in Wales (though Llandovery produces a lot!). This domestic market is and always was, too small to sustain a professional version of the game and it was foolish to try. A rudimentary competitive analysis using basic tools like the 5-forces model shows how ridiculous the notion is. The project never stood a chance and it should be abandoned unless the sport is widened out to every school with school leagues, town, county and country representation based on those leagues. Understanding the complexities of the game are essential to becoming a part of its market and to build that sort of knowledge and empathy for the game takes years and so it has to start young. Spending money on school rugby is the answer, scholarships, collegiate leagues etc. bind the game with learning attainment; this game percolates and does not trickle down. Trickling down is a spoof created by execs with snouts in the trough looking to their own vested interests and not those of the game.
It doesn’t help when every good compressive school player gets overlooked based on their school. A lot of players become disillusioned with it and nobody wants to watch 15 public schoolboys in a freezing cold ground over winter
I don't dispute that independent (and even grammar schools) are over-represented especially in elite rugby, but it's also true that it's rate that regular state schools teach/coach rugby with any seriousness. I think this is the greater point. How do you get rugby into more schools and earlier in the age groups, so what is a pretty complex game can get learnt over time?
Ah there’s so many ways but they all require a lot of funding. The RFU need to get the right commercial partners on board and grow the game beyond the old school tie brigade. Where is the “madden” version of rugby that kids can play, why are players marketed terribly, why do the rules and tactics stifle anything creative or organic now… there’s so much that needs changing
@@karlm641 Not sure what you mean by 'Madden version' - Rugby starts at U7s with 4 a-side tag and layers on the laws year after year until you get to about U16 level where all facets of the game are in play. It's not that there isn't a structure to follow, it's just that it's not followed. State primary schools teach everything (like hockey, handball, american football, soccer, baseball, basketball, rounders, cricket, netball - this is just my local village school of perhaps 200 kids), none of it is taught well, and all in the name of getting kids to try lots of stuff because apparently that's what parents want. State school budgets for sports kits are high because they have so much stuff! Fee paying primary schools offer rugby, hockey, football and cricket (and some don't offer football at all). Unsurprisingly, this is where the rugby players end up coming from. I'd also dispute that the rules stifle anything creative - from grass roots to premiership you see some cracking games with brilliant tries scored. Some crap games too, but that isn't unusual in, say football either.
@@BenRelle so by the madden version I mean a rugby video game where kids actually familiarise themselves with the top players and want to see them live. Rugby missed a massive trick over a decade ago by not promoting the likes of Quade Cooper as the faces of the sport, the game in general is marketed terribly and is aimed at hedge fund managers who barely made their school 2nd XV… In addition, there needs to be a total reform of the Rugby in the UK. School matches need to mean something, the education system needs to give kids more hours playing sport instead making them mindless drones who sit on iPhones. I’d even argue the sport should be played over summer at professional level, nobody wants to go and watch a boring 80mins in the rain… stadiums need to be built to cater for casual supporters who want a beer and watch live sport, clubs need to create local star players who can be marketed properly, there’s so much to change and improve that it’s almost too far gone now
I don’t think England will ever win the Rugby World Cup ever again Ireland and France are too good as England are now on par with Scotland and Italy while Wales is getting worse as they are on a losing streak
2003 WC WIN 🏆 then stood still . Thee most Talented players World Wide,gifted Pool off English 🏴. Yet can’t get a Tune out of Them ? Have Access to Worlds Best Sports Scientists/ Dieticians/ Physiological Experts/ Physiotherapists. Answer is ?
Promotion/relegation needs to be restored and Jeopardy/quality will happen/help, its unacceptable/abomination like the Attempted Football Super League whick thankfully won't ever happen.
Jordan in terms of lack of jeopardy how does the NFL get away with it? There’s no promotion or relegation. They just have that draft system which can reward teams for tanking (purposefully losing). American sports in general is geo fenced in the owners favour to take out jeopardy. How come their sports are growing through the roof? Last week there was a Jets game at Tottenham’s ground and the stadium was packed. What are they doing that we’re missing? If anyone would know you’ll have an idea
What they lack in jeopardy they make up for in marketing. They tell stories better than anyone! They’ve managed to sell NFL to Brits and get as much fan engagement as rugby gets, it’s crazy. In addition they’ve never had a culture of jeopardy. Relegation or promotion has never been a thing in American sports so they’re not used to it persé. Here, we have had it for decades. When it stopped in Premiership Rugby it peeved quite a few fans
It has tactics and nuance some Munster clips ua-cam.com/video/-80VGXDD5gY/v-deo.htmlsi=abNUivgSO089jOzI Or even setting up for a drop goal, or clean break try. Some of Anthony Axel Foley one of the greatest number 8’s of the game ua-cam.com/video/Io5SBaVUQhk/v-deo.htmlsi=V49kPcUCu3J69aH7 ua-cam.com/video/S-AoNs6jZUo/v-deo.htmlsi=tP7b9quRboFFdy2m In his book the bull John Hayes mentions that the French when he played had a tendency to be at their most potent in the first 20 minutes which meant starving of them of oxygen and forcing them into their 22.
I would push back here and compare with the NFL. If you think about it, they are very similar. One however is one of the biggest sports in the world whilst the other is showing signs of a worrying decline. I'm not sure thats the answer
@@TheLongPlayUKI think if you know anything about NFL or Rugby they are not similar one bit besides having the same ball. NFL has a playbook of more tactics than probably Soccer. It’s a very intricate sport that is very different to Rugby.
@@sphynxeastwooddid u honestly just use South Africa as an example 😂 My friend u would literally have to go to the most remote desolate farm in the whole country to find someone whose life hadn’t been impacted by the sport - South Africa is arguably the most rugby obsessed nation on the entire planet and one of the few countries where football is not the most popular sport
Rugby is certainly more entertaining than Cricket, yet Cricket is growing in popularity/Financial, Rugby betfred is growing in attendance/viewing figures, so it more likely seems mismanagement.
I'd recommend watching a team like Harlequins or Bristol Bears play before writing the whole sport off as boring - they have an undoubtable entertainment value that would rival most sports
Another great video essay mate! The biggest issue with rugby union is that a lot of the unions want the same money as football, but they don't want the media exposure... funnily enough, every home nation except from Ireland are losing registered amateur players, because they refuse to evolve to modern markets. It's also worth mentioning that before covid lockdowns, the English premiership clubs were still running on annual losses (aside from Exeter). The Financial Times made a sobering article on the matter as soon as lockdowns became imminent
@@TheLongPlayUK Good question! It mainly comes down to how they've structured their grassroots system. The IRFU give a higher budget to their amateur clubs and schools than all the other home nations combined. They've also been looking to bridge the gap between private and state school players in recent years. They also only have 4 professional clubs, split between the historical provinces of the country. Meaning that finance is relatively easy to maintain and that their clubs are well-supported thanks to pre-existing culture.
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Something I didn’t cover in the video is the marketing, (or the lack of marketing) for Rugby’s stars! Is the onus on the RFU, the individual rugby clubs or the players themselves to promote the best talent? If you’d like to add to the discussion leave a comment below or join the conversation at www.thelongplay.co.uk. Thank you for watching the video 🙏🏾
Nice video! just one thing on your final suggestion is that the north of England has a more traditional 'Rugby League' player base. Whereas the south is more 'Rugby Union' that's why there are fewer Union teams in the north.
A great point worthy of mentioning, thank you
An important point, IMO, relating to players going abroad for money is that to play for the England national team, you need to be playing in England. This is clearly artificially pushing players into playing in England during the peak of their career. My belief is that if this artificial hurdle wasn't in place, the Premiership would fall off dramatically. The organic, natural competiveness of the Premiership is not there. So I think the problem of English rugby being in a bad spot might actually be worse that what you are describing.
2nd point, The north of England is generally more focused on Rugby League, rather than Rugby Union. That explains, or partially at least, why there are fewer Union teams in the north of England.
I think something else worth mentioning is that American football is increasing in popularity in the uk and most people who play it at a amateur level here used to play rugby and moved over for varying reasons but this hurts view count of rugby as they now watch a different sport
A fascinating take. What are some of the varying reasons you speak of?
A pretty damning indictment that NFL can “come over here” and take some market share too.
@@TheLongPlayUK
The reasons mainly are based on how American football is played as the positions tend to do parts of ruby more and other bits less, eg: the oline and dline go into a scrum every play so around one starting 40ish seconds after the last one, the rugby players who love scrums and less so other aspects of the sport enjoy this and its the same with other roles too like running back and wide receiver tend to rum and catch whereas dbs and linebackersdo lots of tackling
Another reason of transferring from rugby is the culture of social events and the stereotype of rugby lads
The pads and helmet can be a turn off for rugby players until they learn it means harder tackles can be made and everyone can play more aggressively on the pitch
The stereotypes do also affect other team sports so that is not the strongest reason.
Rugby in England has made no effort to try and grow in state schools-where the majority of people come from. Relying on private schools was a bubble waiting to burst
Do you have any idea as to why? Is it arrogance or something else I’m missing?
@@TheLongPlayUKarrogance and English in the same sentence? Imagine my shock.
@@TheLongPlayUK Gatekeeping, classism and tradition. If you don't get into a pro rugby academy by 15-18 years of age in Scotland, England and Wales then you're never going to play professionally. These academies only really target private schools and the few state school players that do get in are often looked down upon by their teammates.
@@Shendersonsports3003 There are well documented cases that show this isn't universal. Alex Dombrandt, for example, to not cite the usual one (Ellis Genge). Not saying nepotism etc. doesn't happen, but there's good evidence this is an improving state.
@@kenrehill8775Arrogance isn't just reserved for us British btw.
Great video! It’s a strange one. I will watch any international rugby game at any time- WC, Six Nations, Autumn Friendlies or whatever but have could count the clubs games I have watched on one hand. It’s interesting to see that I am clearly not alone in this and it is great to hear you explain through the potential reasons behind this and the economic impacts
Thank you George. The internationals on at the moment highlight the point. Amazing support at international level yet this does not seem to cascade down to the domestic game. Hopefully things change in the coming years.
@ I completely agree. I have really enjoyed the recent internationals, even if Ireland (my team) don’t seem to be on top of the world anymore. However, these internationals being on BT (or TNT or whatever it is called now) is a textbook example of short term gain (TNT paycheque)for a long term loss (not being able to reach a wider audience on free to view and subsequently grow the game)That does seem to be a wider issue though with the fragmentation of steaming across sports and other media in general anyway though.
Very valid criticisms altho I would say this problem is unique to England and Australia rather than the world
There’s a lot of merit to this analysis but it is important to recognise that England is an isolated case study of decline for rugby - the sport is thriving and increasing in popularity in France, South Africa, Japan and Ireland so the overall health of sport is still solid
Agree with your overall point but the picture in Australia and Wales isn't great either, and even in NZ things aren't as strong as they've been historically
@@99RMLyh I agree tbh I forgot abt the Australia problem until I saw someone else comment abt it altho I’d argue without rugby league then union would be more popular altho I understand the flaws of that argument
This is fair. I planned to A/B test the title with “English Rugby” too so by time you see this comment it may have changed!
In the section comparing the trend to other sports I wanted to spend time here comparing to other rugby union playing countries but I couldn’t find like-for-like metrics in each location so it made it tricky.
@@TheLongPlayUK fair enough it’s a minor critique in and otherwise excellent analysis
for the sport to be great everyone needs to function well like body parts
Jordan, I'm SO glad you touch about rugby digital footprint. Cant imagine how much publicity and potential missed revenue RFU & Premiership have lost not showcasing their stars (a lot of times up and coming)
Also, love Squidge Rugby. He's done wonders for getting people engaged and watching the game, people who might say, yeah, let's get a (really expensive) TNT sub and start watching the Prem but no, copyright strike him instead and try to shut him down. Madness.
I honestly cannot quite get my head around the removal of clips from social use. Fascinating
The problems of English rugby start with Bill Sweeney the sooner he’s sacked the better
Nope, it’s the shitty English mentality. Sweeney is just a symptom.
@@kenrehill8775what do you mean by ‘English shitty mentally’ . Are you talking about fans ? grass roots ? RFU ? National team ?
@@patrickchilds2987 From on outsiders perspective while I wouldn't use the same language as the guy above I would say the English mentality is unique. The RFU are definitely the problem IMO - they are an organisation too rooted in the past. I'd also argue Eddie Jones being sacked after making those comments about private schools was questionable to say the least, my theory is he touched a nerve with the higher ups and was doomed from that point on
@@clippedrugby14The only thing I agree with Eddie Jones on, is dominance of fee paying schools is harming rugby union.
@@OscarOSullivan i agree thats exactly my point - I think he was probably doomed from the moment he made those comments and the RFU were looking to sack him ever since
One thing that people always forget when comparing England with France is that, despite the support for both national teams is pretty much the same, the club support is vastly different. This is because english club sides only played friendlies up until the 80's (at the time "gentleman games"). Tis came from the idea of amateur sports that the important thing is the game itself, not the result. This happened also because the RFU feared that creating a league system would lead to professionalism.
Compare that to France, where their clubs have been competing against eachother for more than a century, and it becomes obvious why France has almost 3 fully professional leagues and England does not. The clubs in France established rivalries and fanbases for decades and english clubs have only recently started to do that.
The IRFU until the creation of the All Ireland League in the 1990’s had its provincial branches run provincial competitions.
Excellent video. As an ex player and someone who follows a championship club it would be great to see relegation and promotion come back
I'm big fan of your work and rugby, so I was keen to hear your take on the state of the game in England (and globally). It might not quite be 'adapt or die' just yet, but it's not far off...much can be learned from cricket!
Hopefully the new commercial agreement breathes some life into the game. The signs show that it needs it
The thing about cricket was that they didn't radically change the game. Just the length of it. Same rules, same complexity. And they sell the game in the biggest market in the world - India, where cricket is basically the unifying religion.
Not sure why you used a map of the UK to point out that there are no Premiership teams in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland? They all have their own URC teams, and their own financial issues
hard to believe this seeing Marcus smith in a new g wagon most mornings
I think the biggest problem with the English Premiership at the moment is the lack of teams.
Two things they're doing well with this season:
1. Showing a live game on ITV each weekend, making it accessible to casual fans and people unable or unwilling to pay for TNT Sports.
2. Coverage by BBC Radio 5 Live on Saturday and Sunday.
But with only 10 teams that's only 5 games spead across Friday night, Saturday and Sunday. When I'm listening to Radio 5 on a Saturday afternoon it's so stark the contrast between almost a hundred football teams playing games over the weekend vs only 10 rugby teams. There's no wonder the value of the broadcasting is so low with so few teams and so few games.
The Premiership needs two or four more teams in my opinion.
They had the teams but they collapsed! All of them struggled to find suitors to keep them alive. Sad state of affairs. Opening the league to expansion would probably do a lot of good but its not an easy process.
@@TheLongPlayUK Wasps and Worcester were both mismanagement. London Irish, the guy just wanted out and couldn't find a buyer. Who wants to waste millions of pounds a year on a rugby team?
In football a team has 23 home league games. In Premiership rugby they have 9. That's not enough to generate enough income.
But it's not easy to get more teams. The RFU Championship teams don't play in proper stadiums and have much smaller budgets. If a team was promoted it would probably lose every game and go bust.
Helping to promote the second and third tier would help. Also mandate a public broadcaster gets to broadcast every single match even if there are fewer features and less fancy camera shots vs the pay to view broadcaster. Rugby grew in popularity because RTÉ broadcasted the Irish provinces playing in the Heineken Cup for years.
Things like increasing the amount of matches played would help, stop overpaying players, coaches and senior staff and get the various Union branches to be owners and organisers of the clubs.
@@OscarOSullivan yes they should do that. Facilities in National League 1 are no worse than those in the Championship. If they broadcast the games it would raise the profile and more people would support their local team.
New subscriber, great vid, love the channel, can’t wait to see it grow more
Thank you Gabby, welcome to the community 🙏🏾
This is so well presented, true, and sad as a mega rugby fan! Thanks for the video. I wish the RFU would watch this, sav and payinon g a consultant.
It has always baffled me that Twickenham can sell nearly 90,000 seats, all at top dollar, for every match, even a barbars match. Yet for Women's internationals, they close the third tier in the stadium. And furthermore, you can to Allianz and watch Sarries Tigers, two of the top teams, and still see empty seats in a small stadium, in north London, in a rich area (although the ground is notoriously hard to reach by public transport). Yet, with a well marketed top clash held at Spurs for Sarries Quins, they can sell that out no problem. The difference in all of them is marketing and social sells, imo. And for all the lost talents knocking about on council estates across the land, it makes me sad for the future of the game. Makes me sadder for all the internationals who care more for the cash then playing for England. I don't blame them one bit. They need to secure their futures, that matters more than caps. England are losing some top players and it just improves French rugby by having them there instead. We've seen what's happened to Wales, something needs to be done. The RFU needs to hand all their profits to all the teams up and down the leagues. And it needs to do way more to improve the women's game, like cricket has done. The WXV had like 5,000 fans to watch the two best teams play, one of them was the host nation, even fewer for the last WC final rematch. No one is pushing it. Bill Beaumont needs to stand down. Get someone vibrant with some ideas in there. Everyone slagged the Hundred when they brought that in in cricket, attendances through the roof, children turning up and then choosing to play and it's a big money spinner for the counties that have teams. We need a similar attitude with rugby.
Excellent video the point abt restricting content creators in particular is very relevant
Seems like the obvious place to start and quite a “simple” fix doesn’t it. I’m not sure what the argument is to not embrace social in a greater fashion
Love this channel. I'd love to invest in and get involved in sports some time. Thanks so much for this education.
Something not said in this but applies to the Jeopardy part of the video is the reformatting of the Champions Cup, rugby’s answer to the Champions League. A few years ago, the cup changed its format to something much closer to the current Champions League. Over the last few years, this has made the group stage of the tournament feel ancillary and insubstantial, with the tournament’s financial value falling as a result.
The knock on effect I think it has had is that qualifying for the top spots in Europe doesn’t feel like an accomplishment anymore. This means that in the table, teams don’t really care unless they’re in the knockouts and even then if you’re drawn against the top team in the league your season is just done.
Europe’s reformatting has had the knock on effect of hurting every league and the Premiership is no different.
I know this is focussed on the English pro game, but from a grassroots perspective, the game isn't sustainable in its current form either.
The big focus on the 3pm Saturday kickoff and a booze-up in the clubhouse afterwards doesn't fit in with the more sober Gen-Z or with Dads wanting to be more hands on with ther kids. When I became a new Dad it became depressing leaving my toddler at lunchtime and coming home to him already fast asleep. And I'm a referee! I can only imagine what it's like for the players who are getting beaten up every week as well.
Every time I get a survey from the RFU I say that kickoff times are the main reason I haven't engaged with the game more. If matches started in late morning and were finished with a lunch at the clubhouse that's a massive barrier to engagement removed. And it gives more time for the people who do have the freedom to stay at the clubhouse to watch the Prem/International games and put more money into the club. Not a single club near me seems to have picked this up.
And the thing is, most clubs still do really well at a junior level, and more and more women are playing. Rugby is just as much of a 'family' sport as it ever has been, but most clubs fail to adapt to modern living.
And this doesn't even touch on the legit fears people hae over concussions.
Great insight thank you for sharing. Concussions are a point I did not speak on in the video causing a massive dent in participation at Junior Level.
When, in your opinion would be an optimal Kick-Off time?
As a Munster and Ireland supporter and player in a lower competition club side it is not up to the URC club teams to bail English clubs out.
The problem is unlike the IRFU branches who had long established provincial teams which come from the four provinces which used to be higher kingdoms English clubs went from being owned and run by local branch types with committees to being owned like top soccer clubs.
At least you have been fair and not said anything like no one cares about rugby (8 and a half million so registered players and high attendances and viewership at least with the URC, 6 nations and RWC disproves that), just that rugby union has always had its strongholds (Limerick, Cork, Suburban Dublin, Wicklow, Welsh Valleys, Southwest France, much of the English southwest, New Zealand, Western and Eastern Cape of South Africa etc and parts of the English midlands). The onus is on unions to grow the game and get it into places it never existed before places like the Liberties, Tallaght, Clondalkin Irish Gaeltachts and most of the Irish countryside. Appears to be working in Ireland with clubs in the Gaeltachtaí, Liberty Saints RFC in D8, Tallaght RFC and Clondalkin RFC, An Ghaeltacht Rugbaí etc.
We are starting to see that with Tom Ahern, Edogbo brothers, Jamie Osborne, etc. More needs to be done but when the likes of those three grassroots Dublin clubs start providing most of the players to their local province then things will be definitely changing.
Rugby union for me is an exciting sport to watch with the varying ways to score with last minute drop goals or penalty kicks in do or die matches are just as exciting as last minute tries. Also cross pitch kicks like the one Jack Crowley as outhalf kicked to Calvin Nash to score a clean running try adds to it.
It is also the history with the 6 Nations having a lineage going back to 1884 and the likes of the Calcutta cup and Triple Crown being some of the oldest contests in sports history. The derby matches and their history no matter how old. The stadiums like Thomond Park with a fantastic atmospheric crowds or Landsdowne in the 2022-2023 URC semi final or 2021-2022 Munster vs Toulouse Heineken Cup quarter final. The summer test series Or when Ireland beat the All Blacks for the first time in 2017 and the first time in New Zealand in summer of 2022. For me the 2022-2023 Munster vs Stormers URC final is one of the greatest club matches, as you mentioned you are a Man United fan before Munster won that final Munster had won in an older format of that competition in 2011 that was the last time before that final that Munster won silverware and they entered their wilderness years bouncing coaching ticket to coaching ticket poor performance to poor performance.
Things like how at least here in Ireland players names are kept off the jerseys. Speaking of jerseys rugby union teams have played in the same kits since their founding or for a very long time. Also who does not like hooped jerseys which are most common in rugby union.
It is the fact that extra time is rare, that Munster vs Toulouse quarter final being an exception. The interesting points race and conceding penalties in your 22 on a torrent rainy night leaving you behind the opposition.
At a regular club level the level of fun and the inclusivity regarding shapes and sizes (still rings true at top flight but to a lesser extent these days). If you are large, strong and heavy you can be a prop or hooker if a bit lighter and more of a runner then a lock if you are quite a good runner but still larger but not as large and strong a flanker if not that a 8 man. Good at concentrating and good with your feet an outhalf, if you are a very fast runner a wing etc.
When it comes to grassroots rugby is quite simple you just needs socks, boots, shorts, gum shield and jersey.
I agreed on the social media clips plenty of people have been posting them for years. 14,15,16 year old club and test clips.
I think the RFU should invest and promote the lower leagues as the local team. For christ’s sake the standards there have come on leaps and bounds there.
great video, loving the content!
Great video, well done!
Thank you 🙏🏾
I think having the 4 Welsh teams and revamping the Premiership would do the game a lot of good. Think they should increase their marketing when football has international breaks to try and seize the vacuum and gain viewers. My idea how to revamp:
Conference 1(West):
Gloucester
Bath
Exeter
Scarlets
Ospreys
Dragons
Cardiff
Bristol
Conference 2 (East):
Harlequins
Saracens
Northampton
Leicester
Sale
Newcastle
Wasps?
Ealing?
Two conferences of 8. Teams play each team in their conference twice, then at end of season teams in other conference once. H/A divide alternates every other year like six nations to ensure fairness over uneven numbers.
Teams that finish 1st get automatic bye to semi-finals of playoffs which take place at neutral venues. 2nd and 3rd advance to quarter finals, hosted by second place teams. Winners go to semi-finals and winners of them go onto grand final.
The two 8th place teams enter relegation zones. The one with worse overall record is automatically relegated, 2nd worst enters a promotion/relegation playoff with 2nd place team from championship.
East and West, NBA style. Fascinating. More games would be good. This in turn increases the number of matches a broadcaster "buys" which in theory should flood more ££ into the game. I dont see many holes in this plan, its very well thought out
Jordan, new subscriber here - loved the video.
Would love to see you explore the current state of Super League, the RFL and the direction they’re heading in.
It would be interesting to see you do a video on Rugby League (Predominantly in the North of England) comparing it to Union.
RL has been growing and doing a lot of stuff right recently in England, although it’s smaller, it is much more sustainable and has a great causal fan base. Much bigger than Union in Australia as well!
I don't like RL much, but I have to admit that it is a much simpler game to watch, without so many confusing laws.
9:15 - expansion of the premiership is all very well, but Newcastle Falcons are already flushing themselves down the toilet. There's a big issue here - even in the heartlands of Rugby Union, the crowds you get are very small, and the stadiums themselves are similarly small. Saracens capacity at the StoneX is 10K. It's laughable when Millwall FC have a capacity of double that, and are way off top flight football. With the current business model, rugby needs people who don't mind giving their millions and never needing to see that cash again.
There's a lot people in the Middle East who seemingly fit that description swirling around at the moment!
Raglife™️ endorse sport contents & channels like this.. big ups long play 🙌
Been Supporting for a while thank you 🙏🏾
It feels like a long road back for rugby. It’s always felt like a more elitist sport, and representation in public schools is poor. Some great suggestions on how to turn it around 👏🏾
You briefly touched on it but yes, Rugby as a whole is awful at social media fan engagement and marketing itself even to its own existing fanbase let alone a potential new/casual fanbase. When the Premiership and Champions Cup finals were taking place they were barely promoted on their social media channels.
It's probably why you're seeing World Rugby always mentioning attracting new fans whenever any new law or competition (Nations Championship) is launched. Because they recognize that the sport is currently facing an existential crisis in terms of relevancy with the current generation.
Why do you think there’s been a reluctance or a poor approach to social to this point? Is there something I’m missing?
It's madness when you think about it! All the thriving rugby nations and competitions are the ones that have an all-year-round presence on social media. The URC, Top 14, etc. Even the British & Irish Lions know that engagement is crucial for fan investment
great and true comments
love the vid, great analysis.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed 🙏🏾
Brilliant video bud
Thank you 🙏🏾
Great video!
Thank you Malcolm 🙏🏾
Sadly it has been on the decline for a number of years due to its overall poor management. The finances simply do not add up for many clubs and that gap has to be filled by owners. Having worked for one of the clubs you mentioned that is still competing, that sport needs to come together and come up with a sustainable plan for the future while realising in order for this to work, they need all the other clubs around them rather than taking a self centred approach to it.
It is also needs to understand what realistically they can achieve with the sport, like you mentioned you cannot compare it with football and therefore needs a different approach in order to solve the issues it is facing.
Thank you Matthew for the insight. I am not sure of the club you worked for but having been on the "inside" do you think there is anything clubs can do themselves that can help the situation?
@@TheLongPlayUK No worries at all, it is was a great video. I think the salaries need to reflect what they can realistically afford rather than keeping up with a cap they have spent. Trying to compete with other clubs outside of England for salaries is just unrealistic. If you ever fancy a chat about it, happy to chat!
Covid hastened the sport's decline, but fundamentally the RFU has been mismanaging it for years now - mostly because of greed and elitism.
They turned on Eddie when he warned them that they need to develop the game more in underprivileged areas, softening the rules a bit for overseas players to still represent England, and easing/removing the salary caps so that the market could drive advertising directly.
I also think that the RFU needs to go on a marketing blitz like SA Rugby did - there simply aren't enough clinics, school visits, and public appearances to actually allow England's rugby heroes to increase the exposure of the game. If the game traditionally appeals to the upper middle-class, and the country is seeing the largest decline in that demographic in decades, then the marketing needs to be recalibrated.
Siya Kolisi coming from living in a shack to being the Springbok captain literally transformed the prospects of the game in South Africa, England needs to get more public exposure for players like Ellis Genge who came from a rougher background and can appeal to a far wider audience.
Rugby is the national sport in SA. There's a big difference - they've totally reached a whole new set of people who were totally disenfranchised, but it has always been a very well represented sport in SA. In England, football is the thing, and nothing will change that. They can visit the schools, but in general there are hardly anyone in your average English school who will play at that school.
@BenRelle football was what most South Africans watched, and now it's rugby. It's not inconceivable that we can increase viewership and participation in England by changing the way the game is marketed and where it's grassroots development is focused.
I don't see it replacing football either, but the entropy we're seeing now will only degrade the sport further.
If SA is an unpalatable comparison for you, then look at France instead - who have literally done the same.
@@Tarrimaster I'd say that where SA succeeded was giving fair opportunities to the population to play rugby based on a very obvious characteristic. And far from being unpalatable, I think this was utterly right and overdue. Some of the 'most people watching football' was a complete lack of representation from the majority population in the national sport. France hasn't done the same - it's connected club and national team, and this has done wonders for the game there, but it hasn't grown massively there in terms of it's only played in certain regions in France (holidaying in Burgundy during the world cup year in France, you couldn't even buy a national French rugby kit in the local Decathlon). It's healthy, but it's not universal.
Not saying British rugby isn't in decline, or that nothing should be done, I'm just saying that comparing our situation with other nations is not a simple 'they did that there, so why don't we do that here?' thing. There's more nuance.
@BenRelle not denying that there isn't nuance, just saying that doing nothing isn't getting us anywhere.
I think a really great player to mention here would have been Louis Reece-Zammit who is the 23 year old star Winger for Wales and has left rugby to play in the NFL
Excellent point. Could have, and should have been an easy mention. He had no desire to play international rugger, he went straight to the States for a remote chance at the NFL. Quite an indictment on the game
@@TheLongPlayUK it's a really shame, but yeah it's a symptom of a larger problem. Great video mate, earned a subscription from me
Rugby needs to market more like how the NFL does. Have you seen Nfl official on UA-cam its they give you alot of info on the sport, players, structure and the history.
Fascinating research, feels like theres been a decline in Wales too
Huge decline - very sad.
recent success, my brother make me understand
I’m glad you put sarri’s outside of London. 😂
we need a computer game that isnt shit tbh
I remember playing Rugby '08 yonks ago! I don't recall a good game since then
@@TheLongPlayUK 08 was the last good one, there hasnt been another one since then worth playing
The only viable rugby products- Rugby 7’s and NRL. International Rugby union can remain popular, but as a union fan from Ireland, growing up in a union area- League takes all the most watchable and memorable moments of ‘rugby’ and leaves the slow rucks, scrums, constant territory kicking, leaving just the ‘best’ parts of rugby. The NRL’s origin and finals product doesn’t compare to the rugby world cup final, as it is simply leagues above it in media coverage( domestic australian), storylines, player brand and actual gameplay. One origin series creates more highlights than a full season of URC, Super Rugby and 6 nations highlights together.
That can’t really be argued- they are different games, with many common elements. League was made, and is still made to sell. Union is made to ………. we are not sure. International rugby union and local union may be interesting but top level league is such a better product its embarrassing. Union needs change- what that is, I dont know unfortunately
Fascinating isn’t it, it’s almost like the governing bodies don’t know what to do either. 7s imo should have more media coverage too. A missed opportunity there
I'd say that is your opinion. And mine is that NRL is mega boring. Even as an ex-league player, I find the 13 man game so boring these days. I mean it's basically 5 tackles, hope you get close enough to the try-line and either grubber it in, or bang it up in the air and hope you end up with your team touching down for a try. I really don't see the appeal. Origin isn't even played at the weekend - nobody really cares about it as it's so one sided - I watched it this time around and it was over by mid-way through the first game. I will agree with you that it is very well marketed.
From personal experience, rugby is really hard to get into. Both in terms of watching it and playing it. Especially if you're new to the sport. Football is so much easier to watch and play, hence why young people tend to chose football over rugby.
Also there's a serious marketing issue with rugby, I could not name you 5 rugby players even if I tried. But easily name you at least 5 NFL players, and I don't even watch American football. Marketing is very important for the growth of a sport.
I agree with some of the points here but I always compare rugby and cricket. On the face of it, the rules of cricket are just as complex as rugby, if not more complex. To add to that, you can’t see the batsmen’s faces. The best games can last 5 days. LBW is impossible to explain 😂
Thats not an easy sell either. But the game is in a completely different place to rugby. So I don’t think “hard to get into” is an excuse rugby can use
@@TheLongPlayUK That's a good point. Although I do think that cricket has an advantage in the grassroots levels compared to rugby, but i see what you mean.
Whereas France and Ireland allowed and encouraged their leagues and teams to compete, grow and flourish, the ERFU and WRFU quite literally regulated their teams into relative mediocrity and the Premier League league into inferiority. We also have a ridiculous domestic cup format from which fans are massively disconnected. European rugby also suffers now from confusing and disengaging tournament formats.
FACTS ON FACTS ON FACTS
Raglife™️ 🏴 🏉 🇬🇧
Man I asked in the comments a few videos back. Now I was too anxious to press play 😂
The people ask, I deliver. Thank you for insipring this one 🙏🏾 Intrigued to know if the points resonate with you.
@@TheLongPlayUK ah hey you are welcome. Thank you for taking the time to look into it. I think you are bang on in terms of the failure to expand rugby out to other parts of the country, ages, demographics.
They are sort of trapped in the early decisions they made when the sport went pro. Still very private school based, not spread around the country. The RFU make so much money from Twickenham they can’t afford to have England matches played around the country.
And the television broadcaster only just got an instagram account set up this year. They keep trying rule changes for the game but really it’s about how it’s sold to the masses and how you get them involved with the players playing the games and then teach to enjoy the technicalities when watching it.
It’s certainly not great 😂 but I love the sport itself so fingers crossed for the future.
Keep up the great work!
Rugby Union had no business turning professional at all, its appeal will always be to players, ex-players and a few of their family members, that's it. Union in the UK is an upper class minority sport except in Wales (though Llandovery produces a lot!). This domestic market is and always was, too small to sustain a professional version of the game and it was foolish to try. A rudimentary competitive analysis using basic tools like the 5-forces model shows how ridiculous the notion is. The project never stood a chance and it should be abandoned unless the sport is widened out to every school with school leagues, town, county and country representation based on those leagues. Understanding the complexities of the game are essential to becoming a part of its market and to build that sort of knowledge and empathy for the game takes years and so it has to start young. Spending money on school rugby is the answer, scholarships, collegiate leagues etc. bind the game with learning attainment; this game percolates and does not trickle down. Trickling down is a spoof created by execs with snouts in the trough looking to their own vested interests and not those of the game.
That 14% of players is the front rows. Please come back.
Those boys are bearing most of the physical brunt 😩
It doesn’t help when every good compressive school player gets overlooked based on their school. A lot of players become disillusioned with it and nobody wants to watch 15 public schoolboys in a freezing cold ground over winter
I don't dispute that independent (and even grammar schools) are over-represented especially in elite rugby, but it's also true that it's rate that regular state schools teach/coach rugby with any seriousness. I think this is the greater point. How do you get rugby into more schools and earlier in the age groups, so what is a pretty complex game can get learnt over time?
Ah there’s so many ways but they all require a lot of funding. The RFU need to get the right commercial partners on board and grow the game beyond the old school tie brigade. Where is the “madden” version of rugby that kids can play, why are players marketed terribly, why do the rules and tactics stifle anything creative or organic now… there’s so much that needs changing
@@karlm641 Not sure what you mean by 'Madden version' - Rugby starts at U7s with 4 a-side tag and layers on the laws year after year until you get to about U16 level where all facets of the game are in play. It's not that there isn't a structure to follow, it's just that it's not followed. State primary schools teach everything (like hockey, handball, american football, soccer, baseball, basketball, rounders, cricket, netball - this is just my local village school of perhaps 200 kids), none of it is taught well, and all in the name of getting kids to try lots of stuff because apparently that's what parents want. State school budgets for sports kits are high because they have so much stuff! Fee paying primary schools offer rugby, hockey, football and cricket (and some don't offer football at all). Unsurprisingly, this is where the rugby players end up coming from. I'd also dispute that the rules stifle anything creative - from grass roots to premiership you see some cracking games with brilliant tries scored. Some crap games too, but that isn't unusual in, say football either.
@@BenRelle so by the madden version I mean a rugby video game where kids actually familiarise themselves with the top players and want to see them live. Rugby missed a massive trick over a decade ago by not promoting the likes of Quade Cooper as the faces of the sport, the game in general is marketed terribly and is aimed at hedge fund managers who barely made their school 2nd XV…
In addition, there needs to be a total reform of the Rugby in the UK. School matches need to mean something, the education system needs to give kids more hours playing sport instead making them mindless drones who sit on iPhones. I’d even argue the sport should be played over summer at professional level, nobody wants to go and watch a boring 80mins in the rain… stadiums need to be built to cater for casual supporters who want a beer and watch live sport, clubs need to create local star players who can be marketed properly, there’s so much to change and improve that it’s almost too far gone now
I don’t think England will ever win the Rugby World Cup ever again Ireland and France are too good as England are now on par with Scotland and Italy while Wales is getting worse as they are on a losing streak
2003 WC WIN 🏆 then stood still .
Thee most Talented players World Wide,gifted Pool off English 🏴.
Yet can’t get a Tune out of Them ?
Have Access to Worlds Best Sports Scientists/ Dieticians/ Physiological Experts/ Physiotherapists.
Answer is ?
look at french club rugby, it is thriving, why €15 to see toulon, sale sharks £30.....
Do you think a lower ticketing price point (say £30 to £20) will generate more attendance?
@@TheLongPlayUK i do, look at success of bus fare cap of £2,as an example
Promotion/relegation needs to be restored and Jeopardy/quality will happen/help, its unacceptable/abomination like the Attempted Football Super League whick thankfully won't ever happen.
Jordan in terms of lack of jeopardy how does the NFL get away with it? There’s no promotion or relegation. They just have that draft system which can reward teams for tanking (purposefully losing). American sports in general is geo fenced in the owners favour to take out jeopardy. How come their sports are growing through the roof? Last week there was a Jets game at Tottenham’s ground and the stadium was packed. What are they doing that we’re missing? If anyone would know you’ll have an idea
What they lack in jeopardy they make up for in marketing. They tell stories better than anyone! They’ve managed to sell NFL to Brits and get as much fan engagement as rugby gets, it’s crazy.
In addition they’ve never had a culture of jeopardy. Relegation or promotion has never been a thing in American sports so they’re not used to it persé.
Here, we have had it for decades. When it stopped in Premiership Rugby it peeved quite a few fans
The problem is the sport in itself, it’s more athletic than an actual sport. There isn’t much nuance or tactics to it.
It has tactics and nuance some Munster clips ua-cam.com/video/-80VGXDD5gY/v-deo.htmlsi=abNUivgSO089jOzI
Or even setting up for a drop goal, or clean break try. Some of Anthony Axel Foley one of the greatest number 8’s of the game ua-cam.com/video/Io5SBaVUQhk/v-deo.htmlsi=V49kPcUCu3J69aH7
ua-cam.com/video/S-AoNs6jZUo/v-deo.htmlsi=tP7b9quRboFFdy2m
In his book the bull John Hayes mentions that the French when he played had a tendency to be at their most potent in the first 20 minutes which meant starving of them of oxygen and forcing them into their 22.
I would push back here and compare with the NFL. If you think about it, they are very similar. One however is one of the biggest sports in the world whilst the other is showing signs of a worrying decline. I'm not sure thats the answer
@@TheLongPlayUKI think if you know anything about NFL or Rugby they are not similar one bit besides having the same ball. NFL has a playbook of more tactics than probably Soccer. It’s a very intricate sport that is very different to Rugby.
Its because Springboks keep winning.
Just copy the French system!🇿🇦
Because it's a boring sport for snobs
Good video, and probably factually correct, but do you speak so quickly? I found it difficult to keep up with you.
The UK has football, France has Rugby
*England has football, the popularity between football and rugby in Wales and Northern Ireland is much much closer
we don't care about rugby to be honest,
* u don’t care about rugby
When you say “we” are you speaking collectively from what you’ve seen in the UK or are you speaking about you and the people around you?
@@John-ny7jn u and 4 other people care about it.
@@TheLongPlayUK people around me, what I’ve seen in the UK and South Africa.
@@sphynxeastwooddid u honestly just use South Africa as an example 😂 My friend u would literally have to go to the most remote desolate farm in the whole country to find someone whose life hadn’t been impacted by the sport - South Africa is arguably the most rugby obsessed nation on the entire planet and one of the few countries where football is not the most popular sport
Not watched the video yet, but Rugby is simply a boring sport to watch in my opinion.
Cheers pal
Is there anything you think the sport can do to make it more entertaining?
Some could say a lot of Football games today are boring eh.
Rugby is certainly more entertaining than Cricket, yet Cricket is growing in popularity/Financial, Rugby betfred is growing in attendance/viewing figures, so it more likely seems mismanagement.
I'd recommend watching a team like Harlequins or Bristol Bears play before writing the whole sport off as boring - they have an undoubtable entertainment value that would rival most sports
Another great video essay mate! The biggest issue with rugby union is that a lot of the unions want the same money as football, but they don't want the media exposure... funnily enough, every home nation except from Ireland are losing registered amateur players, because they refuse to evolve to modern markets.
It's also worth mentioning that before covid lockdowns, the English premiership clubs were still running on annual losses (aside from Exeter). The Financial Times made a sobering article on the matter as soon as lockdowns became imminent
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed. What do yo uthink the Irish are doing that is getting different results from the other host nations?
@@TheLongPlayUK Good question! It mainly comes down to how they've structured their grassroots system. The IRFU give a higher budget to their amateur clubs and schools than all the other home nations combined.
They've also been looking to bridge the gap between private and state school players in recent years.
They also only have 4 professional clubs, split between the historical provinces of the country. Meaning that finance is relatively easy to maintain and that their clubs are well-supported thanks to pre-existing culture.