Verna‘s actress said an interview that her character is a neutral entity but but originating from the Hollow Place that Arthur reached on his journey is a nice touch.
@@falsealias2046 yes, I love that idea that there is a bunch of entities living at the center of the world. So fantastical and strange in the best way.
I adore how she has that comment during Leo's episode about how siblings always need to go together. I don't know if you'll touch on it (half through the video) but Flannagan has a tumblr! And he has answered some questions, like that Verna would've let the siblings die peacefully like Lenore if they took her advice of stopping
I was hoping that you would do a character analysis on Verna! she's my favorite character in the show by far, Carla Gugino killed this role! I love how in depth your analysis videos are, even adding in your own thoughts and theory's!
I would totally watch more shows centered around Verna's deals. And explore deals where maybe she breaks them for someone, or just interesting deals in general
20:43 I wish Verna showed us what could've been of Madeline, in other timelines perhaps, had Madeline made different choices. Madeline is one of my favorites, right behind Verna
17:56 even she hated Frederick. I get he hated his wife for going to that bar with the intention of cheating. But still, his actions pissed me off to no end
HAHA yes, even Verna who is basically a god hates Fredrick. He could have just divorced his wife and left her destitute but he had to enact his rage and control over her when she was defenseless. I think that is what Verna hates the most, since she is all about free will and having people make choices that leads to different consequences.
@@hauntedhues yes. It's the fact he showed NO empathy and hurt after seeing his wife in that pitiful state (literally all her skin is eroded off wtf 😭) and instead, treats her cruelly behind his daughter, and lying to her.. stooped way too low
@@xsomili5501Yes, I think this is Frederick's real self of being a horrible person. In return he gets the long drawn out death, similar to what I think he had in mind for his wife. To keep her in a state of pain for the rest of her life.
@@hauntedhues oh I didn't even think about that last part... That makes more sense. I thought he wanted to slowly kill her as enjoyed the power he had over her
Pym turned out to be one of the more fascinating characters, he let's his guard down with Verna and it was so interesting to see him without his usual cold exterior. Added so much life to what could have been a very minor side character.
One thing about Poe's Raven that's been pointed out is that it's unclear just how much of the Narrator's torment is self inflicted. It's stated in the poem that the Narrator believes "Nevermore" is the bird's "only stock and store" but keeps asking it questions that such an answer will inflict him pain. In that light the raven isn't evil or even harmful, but is simply used to cause one's own misery.
That's a great point, I think the show also took Verna in that direction, neither evil nor good. Just an entity that seems to be fascinated with people's pain.
Verna seems to be the sum of all mythology around the Raven. - the omen of death - the trickster [at the crossroads] - the protector - the reaper - the wise bird There seems to be an emphasis on Egyptian mythology in the show and I think the description of Nephthys fits pretty well even though she’s more associated with falcons. Seems close enough though, married to Set, mother of Anubis. Also it occurred to me to check what day of the week she met the Ushers in the bar. Sure enough 12/31/80 was a Wednesday (Odin’s day, heavily associated with ravens). So she clearly cannot be tied down to one culture or mythology. I was originally frustrated that her Raven character seemed to be a bad Poe-related disguise for another supernatural being but they actually just amalgamated these cultural characterizations into “The” Raven and it’s fascinating. Played out incredibly well for the show.
@@rossbrown1273 I love this! What a great comment ☺️ I love the idea that Verna is a complex amalgamation of different mythologies from different peoples throughout history. She probably changes to fit different cultures and ideals to blend in. Her endless fascination is her main motivation.
What we also find interesting is that carla gugino portrays an active antagonistcin hill house, an unreliable narrator in bly manor, and a somewhat neutral observer in usher!
I hadn't noticed the crown above the graffiti raven on the wall which replaced the bar of the deal between Verna and the Ushers. The taxidermy raven above the bar (just behind Verna) doesn't have any headdress. So ... after the Ushers make the deal, Verna (symbolically) is crowned. She is now the ruler over the fate of the Usher family, and is at each death, watching, determining the mercy or cruelty each Usher will receive, and even resurrecting Roderick when he takes poison to try and get out of the bargain. She may even resurrect Madeline to attack Roderick. She is the power, and the source of both their fortune and misfortune.
So after looking at that scene over and over again of the graffiti, it could still be an abstracted crown or the other wing. It still is hard to make out but I really like your comment about how she now rules their fate. I think it adds to why she enjoyed meeting Arthur so much, he was a mortal that turned her down. Essentially he rules his own fate, so an equal. She goes to see him being brought to court with a somber look on her face. I think not to gloat but to pay her respects before he faces his sentencing.
29:33 I really wanted Lenor to live. I thought the deal was that the children of the 2 Ushers had to die, and I (subconsciously) pushed out the memory that Verna specifically mentioned bloodline too
Yes, I think a lot of people mentioned that they were hoping it was just Roderick's kids. But "bloodline" was a very purposeful choice by Verna. All Ushers will die making it more selfish of Roderick to make the deal, even Madeline made sure to never have children just in case.
Also, about Madeline coming back to life to kill Rodrick at the end. I'm not sure it was Verna who interfered. Don't forget their mother returned from the grave to kill as well.
So, I'm in the beginning, but I always thought that Verna was what Persephone would be like if she left the underworld and interacted with humans. She's a powerful shapeshifter who usually prefers to take the form of either a woman or an animal of some kind. She's polite and kind when speaking with humans, but still above them. She has empathy even for bad people, yet she still facilitates their deaths. She's very nature mixed with death. Considering Persepone being both the goddess of spring and queen of the underworld, this tracks. A lot of tellings of Persepone's story paint her as curious about the world. It would track for her to be intrigued by humanity, and it would be an interesting twist to see her in this way instead of the overdone "sheltered and innocent." Idk, just my thoughts.
I can totally see that. I have always loved the story of Persephone. Her story is one of my favorites from Greek mythology. Greek gods and goddesses were also know to meddle and make bets with mortals, so that tracks as well.
is verna a messenger? an angel who warns but cannot really intervene because a messenger can warn you but not take away your free will so just has to sit and watch as everyone ignores the warnings due to free will ...and everyone goes down the wrong road despite warnings. there is a meme of an angel with her head in her hand and some folk say on the pictue meme , my guardian angel watching me ignore them again...
I think she is more like a manifest of consequence and fate, some things once done cannot be undone. Roderick and Madeline choose to make the deal, once the deal is done everyone is the Usher family is doomed to die an early death. The destination is set but the path can vary. No matter what the people destined to die do they will still die, but they don't have to struggle or suffer as much if they took her advice. She often tells them to go home or to relax, so she can take them gentler in their final moments but they never take her advice.
it doesn't matter if she did good or not, she has to die as it is part of the deal. So she gave Lenore a quiet and dignified death instead of killing her violently like the rest.
I knew you'd get into this series and I was very much looking forward to it. I'll be very honest, I didn't enjoy the show. It's Flanagan's most forgettable work. Usually I adore everything he makes but this one was a miss for me. I found the overall tone of the show very uneven. It seemed like I'm watching three different shows. It was very preachy, riddle-ly and without much substance. I just wanted it to end. The ending was very anti-climactic as well. Verna is a good character but I loved her mostly because of the wonderful acting by Gugino. I did want to see more of Annabelle. But I enjoyed your video and please make more of them.
That is a very valid critique of the show. A lot of people felt the same way. So I agree, I think this is his most uneven show. It isn't as character driven as his other shows as well.
I wonder if it could have greatly benefited from another draft or maybe if it was episodic instead. So every episode was like a Poe story or something like that.
@@hauntedhues Oh yes. Definitely. The characters weren't as flushed. I didn't care for any of them except Lawyer Pym, Annabelle and Juno. As I'm writing this I realise I liked everyone outside of the Usher family. I found that the series could have used proper direction. There was too much focus on their Pharma company and the drug but it seemed very off-putting. Am I supposed to care for the hundreds of thousands of people who died due to the actions of the brother and sister duo because I don't.
@@RimjhimSinghBhardwaj The Ushers are supposed to be awful so we can appreciate the corrupting influence of that level of power and influence. This show is in many ways an application of Poe's writings, both poems and stories, to serve as a critique of the rich and powerful in the world. Where other Flanagan shows are usually various levels of tragedies, this one is only a tragedy for Lenore, the rest of the characters deserve what's coming to them.
It so great to see that you’ve uploaded the video! I’ve watched the show with my parents and let’s just say they weren’t a huge fan of it because of how they feel like the characters could’ve have more likeable, but still flawed like with the Haunting of Hill House characters. In my opinion, I do like the Edgar Allen Poe references, but routing for the characters to get karma isn’t as enjoyable as seeing them get consequences but then be able to get a chance to grow from the past mistakes.
You are not alone! I talked to a lot of people about this show and that is probably the main critique of why people didn't enjoy it as much as his other shows. It is very different from how his other shows in terms of messaging so I totally get why people found it a bit off.
Aww thank you! The show has so many interesting ways of interpretation, it makes it fun to rewatch multiple times. I always find something new to examine.
@@hauntedhues agree! I really loved the show!! Although it's still ranked last when compared to Hill House / Blue Manor for me. I've got to watch Midnight Mass and Club soon. Have you watched those?
That probably would have been a good spin off instead of what they did with the Witcher series. Episodic ironic misadventures in that universe sounds fun.
Thank you for this - I can't say that I liked this series very much, but your breakdown of who or what 'Verna' was, was well-thought and interesting. :)
I think Verna might prefer Madeline over Roderick because Madeleine never had children. Madeline did not choose to pass the debt.
I definitely think that's a part of it. I think Madeline just acts with a lot more agency over her life and Verna respects that.
Verna‘s actress said an interview that her character is a neutral entity but but originating from the Hollow Place that Arthur reached on his journey is a nice touch.
@@falsealias2046 yes, I love that idea that there is a bunch of entities living at the center of the world. So fantastical and strange in the best way.
I adore how she has that comment during Leo's episode about how siblings always need to go together.
I don't know if you'll touch on it (half through the video) but Flannagan has a tumblr! And he has answered some questions, like that Verna would've let the siblings die peacefully like Lenore if they took her advice of stopping
Oh wow 😲 I need to check it out! I love his work so much so I would love to read his answers.
The random famous people that are active on tumblr are great. Got Flanagan, Doug Jones, Neil Gaiman, Lynda Carter recently jumped on, it’s a fun time.
I was hoping that you would do a character analysis on Verna! she's my favorite character in the show by far, Carla Gugino killed this role! I love how in depth your analysis videos are, even adding in your own thoughts and theory's!
Thank you! She was my favorite and you can really tell Carla Gugino was really having a lot of fun with this role.
I would totally watch more shows centered around Verna's deals. And explore deals where maybe she breaks them for someone, or just interesting deals in general
20:43 I wish Verna showed us what could've been of Madeline, in other timelines perhaps, had Madeline made different choices. Madeline is one of my favorites, right behind Verna
I agree! Madeline was one of my favorites too. She was such a fun character to watch.
17:56 even she hated Frederick. I get he hated his wife for going to that bar with the intention of cheating. But still, his actions pissed me off to no end
HAHA yes, even Verna who is basically a god hates Fredrick. He could have just divorced his wife and left her destitute but he had to enact his rage and control over her when she was defenseless. I think that is what Verna hates the most, since she is all about free will and having people make choices that leads to different consequences.
@@hauntedhues yes. It's the fact he showed NO empathy and hurt after seeing his wife in that pitiful state (literally all her skin is eroded off wtf 😭) and instead, treats her cruelly behind his daughter, and lying to her.. stooped way too low
@@xsomili5501Yes, I think this is Frederick's real self of being a horrible person. In return he gets the long drawn out death, similar to what I think he had in mind for his wife. To keep her in a state of pain for the rest of her life.
@@hauntedhues oh I didn't even think about that last part... That makes more sense. I thought he wanted to slowly kill her as enjoyed the power he had over her
Glad you added the Pym conversation at the end, it adds great layers to her character and his, both emotionally/mentally and mystically
Pym turned out to be one of the more fascinating characters, he let's his guard down with Verna and it was so interesting to see him without his usual cold exterior. Added so much life to what could have been a very minor side character.
Indeed! I didn't quite grasp what they were talking about when I watched it, but with this video's explanation, it'such more clear now
@@xsomili5501 I didn't quite catch its meaning the first time, so I had to rewatch it like three times before it made sense to me.
One thing about Poe's Raven that's been pointed out is that it's unclear just how much of the Narrator's torment is self inflicted. It's stated in the poem that the Narrator believes "Nevermore" is the bird's "only stock and store" but keeps asking it questions that such an answer will inflict him pain. In that light the raven isn't evil or even harmful, but is simply used to cause one's own misery.
That's a great point, I think the show also took Verna in that direction, neither evil nor good. Just an entity that seems to be fascinated with people's pain.
Verna seems to be the sum of all mythology around the Raven.
- the omen of death
- the trickster [at the crossroads]
- the protector
- the reaper
- the wise bird
There seems to be an emphasis on Egyptian mythology in the show and I think the description of Nephthys fits pretty well even though she’s more associated with falcons. Seems close enough though, married to Set, mother of Anubis.
Also it occurred to me to check what day of the week she met the Ushers in the bar. Sure enough 12/31/80 was a Wednesday (Odin’s day, heavily associated with ravens). So she clearly cannot be tied down to one culture or mythology.
I was originally frustrated that her Raven character seemed to be a bad Poe-related disguise for another supernatural being but they actually just amalgamated these cultural characterizations into “The” Raven and it’s fascinating. Played out incredibly well for the show.
@@rossbrown1273 I love this! What a great comment ☺️ I love the idea that Verna is a complex amalgamation of different mythologies from different peoples throughout history. She probably changes to fit different cultures and ideals to blend in. Her endless fascination is her main motivation.
23:18 that Cleopatra foreshadow. Woah! Great spot
I know! It was such a creepy yet cool foreshadow of what will happen to Madeline.
What we also find interesting is that carla gugino portrays an active antagonistcin hill house, an unreliable narrator in bly manor, and a somewhat neutral observer in usher!
Yes! She is given the best roles haha she always gets to have the most fun on set in my opinion. A lot of room to explore and play the characters.
@@hauntedhues just wanted to let you know, also, that we've enjoyed literally all your videos so far!
Can u elaborate more on the unreliable narrator part? What parts of the story may she have changed / skewed perspective?
@@hauntedhues and I'm glad she does. She really has a captivating aura and I just LOVE seeing her on screen
@@eveliendorienThank you so much! That is such a sweet comment, it really makes my day 😄
I hadn't noticed the crown above the graffiti raven on the wall which replaced the bar of the deal between Verna and the Ushers. The taxidermy raven above the bar (just behind Verna) doesn't have any headdress.
So ... after the Ushers make the deal, Verna (symbolically) is crowned. She is now the ruler over the fate of the Usher family, and is at each death, watching, determining the mercy or cruelty each Usher will receive, and even resurrecting Roderick when he takes poison to try and get out of the bargain. She may even resurrect Madeline to attack Roderick. She is the power, and the source of both their fortune and misfortune.
So after looking at that scene over and over again of the graffiti, it could still be an abstracted crown or the other wing. It still is hard to make out but I really like your comment about how she now rules their fate. I think it adds to why she enjoyed meeting Arthur so much, he was a mortal that turned her down. Essentially he rules his own fate, so an equal. She goes to see him being brought to court with a somber look on her face. I think not to gloat but to pay her respects before he faces his sentencing.
Oooo I love ur interpretation
29:33 I really wanted Lenor to live. I thought the deal was that the children of the 2 Ushers had to die, and I (subconsciously) pushed out the memory that Verna specifically mentioned bloodline too
Yes, I think a lot of people mentioned that they were hoping it was just Roderick's kids. But "bloodline" was a very purposeful choice by Verna. All Ushers will die making it more selfish of Roderick to make the deal, even Madeline made sure to never have children just in case.
@@hauntedhues yea... Why would he have thaat many children knowing they would never have any future 😭
@@xsomili5501 I think he deluded himself into thinking the deal wasn't real or he is just that selfish and self centered that he didn't even care.
@@hauntedhues I see. Yea I do rmb them discussing if it was even real of not 🤔
Also, about Madeline coming back to life to kill Rodrick at the end. I'm not sure it was Verna who interfered.
Don't forget their mother returned from the grave to kill as well.
Sorry, I just listened to the rest of the video, and you already explained that. 😂 Woops.
So, I'm in the beginning, but I always thought that Verna was what Persephone would be like if she left the underworld and interacted with humans.
She's a powerful shapeshifter who usually prefers to take the form of either a woman or an animal of some kind. She's polite and kind when speaking with humans, but still above them. She has empathy even for bad people, yet she still facilitates their deaths. She's very nature mixed with death. Considering Persepone being both the goddess of spring and queen of the underworld, this tracks.
A lot of tellings of Persepone's story paint her as curious about the world. It would track for her to be intrigued by humanity, and it would be an interesting twist to see her in this way instead of the overdone "sheltered and innocent." Idk, just my thoughts.
I can totally see that. I have always loved the story of Persephone. Her story is one of my favorites from Greek mythology. Greek gods and goddesses were also know to meddle and make bets with mortals, so that tracks as well.
QUESTION ? WOULD YOU EVER DO AN ANALYSIS OF MAGDA FROM PENNY DREADFUL ?(SEASON 4 - PENNNY DREADFUL - CITY FO ANGELS ).
GREAT CONTENT.....MAY 2 2024.
I do not understand how you have so few subscribers
@@shivalishankersharma1562 mostly my fault haha I am terrible at uploading 😔
is verna a messenger? an angel who warns but cannot really intervene because a messenger can warn you but not take away your free will so just has to sit and watch as everyone ignores the warnings due to free will ...and everyone goes down the wrong road despite warnings. there is a meme of an angel with her head in her hand and some folk say on the pictue meme , my guardian angel watching me ignore them again...
I think she is more like a manifest of consequence and fate, some things once done cannot be undone. Roderick and Madeline choose to make the deal, once the deal is done everyone is the Usher family is doomed to die an early death. The destination is set but the path can vary. No matter what the people destined to die do they will still die, but they don't have to struggle or suffer as much if they took her advice. She often tells them to go home or to relax, so she can take them gentler in their final moments but they never take her advice.
I really enjoyed your character analysis and I've been watching a lot of your videos. Your a great narrator and I look forward to more of your videos.
Thank you so much! I am hoping to do some more for the rest of the characters, I always love how much details are put into the shows.
Nicely done
@@michaelsmyth3935 thank you ☺️
Yes focus on life first! There will always be time to do videos in the future
30:10 life happens! Just happy you’re still around for the rides Flanagan puts us on lmao
I know! I hope he keeps getting to make these shows and movies. I love his stuff so much haha
For more information on Verna, you might want to read Poe’s poem “Dream-Land.”
@@Queen1001N thanks for the recommendation! Is that part of a book or just a story?
@@hauntedhues It’s a poem that Poe wrote for a magazine. Some think Verna is based on the Eidolon (phantom) in the poem.
@@Queen1001N I will have to go read it and think upon it. Thank you 🙏
verna seems like conciense and karma you have a choice and sadly took the youngest for good to happen after, when most failed..verna is brain damage
it doesn't matter if she did good or not, she has to die as it is part of the deal. So she gave Lenore a quiet and dignified death instead of killing her violently like the rest.
I knew you'd get into this series and I was very much looking forward to it.
I'll be very honest, I didn't enjoy the show. It's Flanagan's most forgettable work. Usually I adore everything he makes but this one was a miss for me.
I found the overall tone of the show very uneven. It seemed like I'm watching three different shows. It was very preachy, riddle-ly and without much substance. I just wanted it to end. The ending was very anti-climactic as well.
Verna is a good character but I loved her mostly because of the wonderful acting by Gugino. I did want to see more of Annabelle.
But I enjoyed your video and please make more of them.
That is a very valid critique of the show. A lot of people felt the same way. So I agree, I think this is his most uneven show. It isn't as character driven as his other shows as well.
I wonder if it could have greatly benefited from another draft or maybe if it was episodic instead. So every episode was like a Poe story or something like that.
@@hauntedhues Oh yes. Definitely.
The characters weren't as flushed. I didn't care for any of them except Lawyer Pym, Annabelle and Juno. As I'm writing this I realise I liked everyone outside of the Usher family.
I found that the series could have used proper direction. There was too much focus on their Pharma company and the drug but it seemed very off-putting. Am I supposed to care for the hundreds of thousands of people who died due to the actions of the brother and sister duo because I don't.
@@RimjhimSinghBhardwaj The Ushers are supposed to be awful so we can appreciate the corrupting influence of that level of power and influence. This show is in many ways an application of Poe's writings, both poems and stories, to serve as a critique of the rich and powerful in the world.
Where other Flanagan shows are usually various levels of tragedies, this one is only a tragedy for Lenore, the rest of the characters deserve what's coming to them.
12:05 which she offered to Lenor 😭❤️
Yes 😢 at least Lenore went out peacefully
It so great to see that you’ve uploaded the video! I’ve watched the show with my parents and let’s just say they weren’t a huge fan of it because of how they feel like the characters could’ve have more likeable, but still flawed like with the Haunting of Hill House characters. In my opinion, I do like the Edgar Allen Poe references, but routing for the characters to get karma isn’t as enjoyable as seeing them get consequences but then be able to get a chance to grow from the past mistakes.
You are not alone! I talked to a lot of people about this show and that is probably the main critique of why people didn't enjoy it as much as his other shows.
It is very different from how his other shows in terms of messaging so I totally get why people found it a bit off.
This video REALLY opened a new perspective and helped me understand the show on a different level.
Aww thank you! The show has so many interesting ways of interpretation, it makes it fun to rewatch multiple times. I always find something new to examine.
@@hauntedhues agree! I really loved the show!! Although it's still ranked last when compared to Hill House / Blue Manor for me. I've got to watch Midnight Mass and Club soon. Have you watched those?
Fave ❤❤❤❤
This show makes me think how good a show could be with gaunter odim
That probably would have been a good spin off instead of what they did with the Witcher series. Episodic ironic misadventures in that universe sounds fun.
Thank you for this - I can't say that I liked this series very much, but your breakdown of who or what 'Verna' was, was well-thought and interesting. :)
Thank you! I have spoken to a lot of people who were mixed on this series as well so you are not alone.