Excellent. I have been intimidated by this process and, until now, had never seen a video that explained it in such a relevant and engaging manner. Thank you!
I was quite intimidated by the process as well until I did it for the first time. I guess it's like anything, once you've done it or seen it done once things become infinitely clearer. Thank god for UA-cam so we are all able to share these findings with the world!
That is probably only video ever to explain the vacuum bagging process and the production quality is amazing. It was honestly not that hard as I imagined I hope to try this soon. Westsystem should hire you to create instructional videos for all their products, you are so great at lecturing 😅
@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Well it is really not that hard, I can totally see the point, in regular planking, the gaps between laminations are inevitable and requires a lot of epoxy to fill possible gaps. Still any air pockets between plywood laminations would seriously risk rot in longterm. I wish I had vacuumed transom laminations.I literrally had to pour heated epoxy through cracks in beteen laminations as clamping doesnt really work on large surfaces
Great video! You did a wonderful job explaining the vacuum bagging process and providing very insightful tips! I wish this video was around when I vacuum bagged all the mahogany planks on my boat. The stress of trying to find leaks, keeping the plank in place, etc., all knowing that the epoxy was kicking off damn near broke me, LOL ;). Funny, it never seemed to get easier! Thanks again, Pete.
Glad you enjoyed it Pete, I hear what you're saying about stress. It's relatively chilled on this small model but doing half of a big boat hull on a hot day when the epoxy clock is ticking... 🤯
I worked in the aircraft industry, making carbon fibre structures. It was commonplace to make an 'ear' for the vacuum port, using breather or peel ply to prevent the port from coming into direct contact with the pre-preg carbon. Prior to that, i worked in a boatyard making cold moulded yachts. The clamping for consolidating the planks was done by stapling through 1" wide x 1/8" plywood, and hammering the staples in hard to apply pressure. The staples were then removed after the glue hadset, but this was a very labour intensive process. Later, vacuum bagging was employed.
Given the bag used in this video, (with the breather channels) could the fitting be installed in one of the folds of the bag instead of on top of the surface? That's what you're describing?
Yes I will try that next time I think. When I've done this before it has been on 6mm planking and you don't get any resin on the topside other than a small line down the planking seam. It usually means that my vacuum connectors just sit dry in the middle of a plank rather than filling with epoxy like they did this time. I'll try creating an ear for the next section 👍
I've been enjoying your video's a lot, it's going to be a beautiful boat. This may be a bit late to the party, but I did notice a couple of things. Before lamination, you could place a taped baton along the line where you start planking to keep the exposed edge crisp and prevent spillover of epoxy to where the next plank is going to land. Also, you could place a small amount of peel ply and breather cloth underneath just the air outlets of the bag. This will wick up excess epoxy and may prevent it from going into the plug. It will also guarantee easy removal. For the home builder, I've had good results with a repurposed fridge pump. It just needs an expansion vat and a simple oil return and you're good to go.
This was a really great installment in the video series Dan! Thanks for putting in the time to record this. Weighing in (again) on the topic of starting a full size boat, I still think it would be better to complete the model first, and even if it required a little crowd funding I think the model really deserves motorizing. There would be nothing like a good RC package installed in the model for marketing/promotional material, and the cost relative to the time already invested would probably be marginal. Keep it up!
I will consider motorising it, I don't want it to detract from looking like the real thing though. I want people to be able to see the model at a show, look inside and see the engine bay as it would be. I am hoping to 3D print an Ilmor engine that will sit proudly within the hatches. It may be possible to hide an electric motor within the print and make it all functional as well. If so I'll do it 👍
Excellent demo on bagging. I'm not convinced on using it though. Looks tedious. Or im probably confused as I've mainly seen it used for efficient resin distribution in glass layers and here we didn't have any glass. Some weight or tacks could have bonded the planks, then the peel ply method to seal offfor for the next layer. This is what i thought would have occurred before i started watching.
This really offers an unparalleled system of clamping planks down, there isn't really anything else that applies the same force over such a large even area. Consider that a true vacuum using this system is the equivalent to 1kg of force per square centimetre over the entire area and thats an equal, even force applied from all sides rather than a physical downwards weight, meaning it will work just as well on the side of a boat also. It gives fantastic consolidation of the glue line which would otherwise be very prone to voids if using screws or staples as a hold down system instead.
I recently saw the big boat builders have a spray gun that mixes the epoxy as it goes, you just press the button and it sprays a coat of resin... makes covering large areas child's play. You just need someone to follow after you with the metal roller. I just noticed your name is my surname with one letter moving to another place... PS A yoghurt cup with a simple slit cut down one side is great for collecting stuff off your squeegee.
What are the pros and cons of sandwiching in a layer of glass or Aramid (Kevlar)? Great video as always and thank you for leaving in the bits where you have problems.
Second this question. I assume greater strength for greater cost, which just isn't necessary on small craft? Although further, isn't the primary advantage of Kevlar abrasion resistance? Which would make it most effective in the top layer anyway as opposed to core layer?
Kevlar is abrasion resistant but also penetration resistant (which is why it's used in bullet proof jackets) potentially allowing the hull to be thinner and lighter for the same penetration resistance. Incidentally, Kevlar is used in kayak fabrication for this reason@@darrellhoekstra8514
It could be done but I wouldn't really think it necessary. The boat is designed for 4 planking layers of just wood and has ample strength and rigidity at that. I guess in theory, maybe a layer of wood could be substituted for glass but it's not a change I'd recommend making. The inclusion of glass or kevlar would also make things fiddly up at the stem. The step in the stem is designed to allow for 4x bottom planking layers and 2x side planking layers, finishing the bow at a smooth transition between them. Adding glass would affect this and require the stem to be altered so that they finish at the same height. I'm not sure how you'd go about working that out.
I think you should use peel ply there too. Plus perforted film and breather, this will absorb your excess of epoxy. And with all that you also get a separation of your sucking nipples and your fabric.
It's a bagging film made by Pro-Set called Teak deck bagging film. By the way, in the video I called it perforated which isn't actually right. That would mean it is full of holes, I should have actually said embossed... I don't always get my words out right 🤦♂️
Excellent. I have been intimidated by this process and, until now, had never seen a video that explained it in such a relevant and engaging manner. Thank you!
I was quite intimidated by the process as well until I did it for the first time. I guess it's like anything, once you've done it or seen it done once things become infinitely clearer. Thank god for UA-cam so we are all able to share these findings with the world!
That is probably only video ever to explain the vacuum bagging process and the production quality is amazing. It was honestly not that hard as I imagined I hope to try this soon. Westsystem should hire you to create instructional videos for all their products, you are so great at lecturing 😅
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it Serdar. Hopefully it will help you with taking on the vacuuming process the bottom on your slipper launch!?
@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Well it is really not that hard, I can totally see the point, in regular planking, the gaps between laminations are inevitable and requires a lot of epoxy to fill possible gaps. Still any air pockets between plywood laminations would seriously risk rot in longterm. I wish I had vacuumed transom laminations.I literrally had to pour heated epoxy through cracks in beteen laminations as clamping doesnt really work on large surfaces
It’s good when things go not quite as planned, it provides another lesson on how to get out of trouble.
I guess it's probably the best way to learn!
A very good explanation of the cold molding process, thank you.
Wonderful series! Thanks for sharing this with the world. 🇨🇦
Brilliant. Often wondered how the vacuum bag system works on framed boats. Super clear and precise video. Thanks so much. Real joy to watch.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video! You did a wonderful job explaining the vacuum bagging process and providing very insightful tips! I wish this video was around when I vacuum bagged all the mahogany planks on my boat. The stress of trying to find leaks, keeping the plank in place, etc., all knowing that the epoxy was kicking off damn near broke me, LOL ;). Funny, it never seemed to get easier! Thanks again, Pete.
Glad you enjoyed it Pete, I hear what you're saying about stress. It's relatively chilled on this small model but doing half of a big boat hull on a hot day when the epoxy clock is ticking... 🤯
thank you sir, very informative and your video styling is very smooth and easy to watch.
Ah yes , sealed for freshness !!!😊
Thanks Dan!
I worked in the aircraft industry, making carbon fibre structures. It was commonplace to make an 'ear' for the vacuum port, using breather or peel ply to prevent the port from coming into direct contact with the pre-preg carbon. Prior to that, i worked in a boatyard making cold moulded yachts. The clamping for consolidating the planks was done by stapling through 1" wide x 1/8" plywood, and hammering the staples in hard to apply pressure. The staples were then removed after the glue hadset, but this was a very labour intensive
process. Later, vacuum bagging was employed.
Given the bag used in this video, (with the breather channels) could the fitting be installed in one of the folds of the bag instead of on top of the surface? That's what you're describing?
@darrellhoekstra8514 yes, with some breather cloth.
Yes I will try that next time I think. When I've done this before it has been on 6mm planking and you don't get any resin on the topside other than a small line down the planking seam. It usually means that my vacuum connectors just sit dry in the middle of a plank rather than filling with epoxy like they did this time. I'll try creating an ear for the next section 👍
Wow - love these. Always learn something!
Some video shorts going through the planking process would be appreciated.
Good idea, I’ll get working on that 👍
I've been enjoying your video's a lot, it's going to be a beautiful boat. This may be a bit late to the party, but I did notice a couple of things.
Before lamination, you could place a taped baton along the line where you start planking to keep the exposed edge crisp and prevent spillover of epoxy to where the next plank is going to land.
Also, you could place a small amount of peel ply and breather cloth underneath just the air outlets of the bag. This will wick up excess epoxy and may prevent it from going into the plug. It will also guarantee easy removal.
For the home builder, I've had good results with a repurposed fridge pump. It just needs an expansion vat and a simple oil return and you're good to go.
Yes, all good points there 👍
Excellent video as always!
Great video. I learnt a lot for my future builds. thanx
Amazing never heard off or seen that before thanks for uploading
Glad you enjoyed it
This was a really great installment in the video series Dan! Thanks for putting in the time to record this. Weighing in (again) on the topic of starting a full size boat, I still think it would be better to complete the model first, and even if it required a little crowd funding I think the model really deserves motorizing. There would be nothing like a good RC package installed in the model for marketing/promotional material, and the cost relative to the time already invested would probably be marginal. Keep it up!
I will consider motorising it, I don't want it to detract from looking like the real thing though. I want people to be able to see the model at a show, look inside and see the engine bay as it would be. I am hoping to 3D print an Ilmor engine that will sit proudly within the hatches. It may be possible to hide an electric motor within the print and make it all functional as well. If so I'll do it 👍
That's a really cool idea as well 👍
Excellent demo on bagging. I'm not convinced on using it though. Looks tedious. Or im probably confused as I've mainly seen it used for efficient resin distribution in glass layers and here we didn't have any glass. Some weight or tacks could have bonded the planks, then the peel ply method to seal offfor for the next layer. This is what i thought would have occurred before i started watching.
This really offers an unparalleled system of clamping planks down, there isn't really anything else that applies the same force over such a large even area. Consider that a true vacuum using this system is the equivalent to 1kg of force per square centimetre over the entire area and thats an equal, even force applied from all sides rather than a physical downwards weight, meaning it will work just as well on the side of a boat also. It gives fantastic consolidation of the glue line which would otherwise be very prone to voids if using screws or staples as a hold down system instead.
I recently saw the big boat builders have a spray gun that mixes the epoxy as it goes, you just press the button and it sprays a coat of resin... makes covering large areas child's play. You just need someone to follow after you with the metal roller. I just noticed your name is my surname with one letter moving to another place... PS A yoghurt cup with a simple slit cut down one side is great for collecting stuff off your squeegee.
What are the pros and cons of sandwiching in a layer of glass or Aramid (Kevlar)? Great video as always and thank you for leaving in the bits where you have problems.
Second this question. I assume greater strength for greater cost, which just isn't necessary on small craft? Although further, isn't the primary advantage of Kevlar abrasion resistance? Which would make it most effective in the top layer anyway as opposed to core layer?
Kevlar is abrasion resistant but also penetration resistant (which is why it's used in bullet proof jackets) potentially allowing the hull to be thinner and lighter for the same penetration resistance. Incidentally, Kevlar is used in kayak fabrication for this reason@@darrellhoekstra8514
It could be done but I wouldn't really think it necessary. The boat is designed for 4 planking layers of just wood and has ample strength and rigidity at that. I guess in theory, maybe a layer of wood could be substituted for glass but it's not a change I'd recommend making. The inclusion of glass or kevlar would also make things fiddly up at the stem. The step in the stem is designed to allow for 4x bottom planking layers and 2x side planking layers, finishing the bow at a smooth transition between them. Adding glass would affect this and require the stem to be altered so that they finish at the same height. I'm not sure how you'd go about working that out.
I think you should use peel ply there too. Plus perforted film and breather, this will absorb your excess of epoxy. And with all that you also get a separation of your sucking nipples and your fabric.
Great video, where did you get the textured vacuum bagging film?
Exactly what I was going to ask...seems like an outstanding innovation and I would love to try that out.
It's a bagging film made by Pro-Set called Teak deck bagging film. By the way, in the video I called it perforated which isn't actually right. That would mean it is full of holes, I should have actually said embossed... I don't always get my words out right 🤦♂️