All it will take for Richard Mille prices to tank is that one of the like three dudes in the middle east that buy 40% of their production to try to sell their collections.
I’ve spent this afternoon watching your vids. Really good. Very authentic and informative. I’m fed up with watch UA-camrs letting their inflated egos ‘get in the way’. You have great content. Many thanks.
@@AG-en5y Singapore isn’t middle class, a condo unit would cost 1.8m USD in Singapore. USA is more middle class, your gated community houses are only at 450k USD lol.
100% agreed with Roger Dubuis. Their 2000s watches are incredible. I own a 40mm easy diver, impossible to find now and such a cool combination of old and new. Hope they bring back homage and sympathy lines
In almost 2 decades of being a watch geek, working in the jewelry industry, both retail and as a bench jeweler, and hanging out with other watch geeks, I've known 2, one was a gold coin watch, one was an admiral's cup from the 90s.
1: thesis statement, 2: summary of your thesis (5 dying watches - name them) 3: PIE - proof, information, example. learn to tell a story and you won't have to beg people to hit the like button.
If you were in Europe except for Dubuis and RGM the other brands are selling very well here. Tudor were selling very well before they reentered the US market as well in Europe. Panerai especially sells very well as does a Breitling here and Bell and Ross and they all retain much more of their price than they do in the US or Canada. I used to live in Canada and Breitling tanked in value once out of the door but here in Vienna even twenty year old ones sell for good money still.
i love Corum Admiral’s Cup (and still am now) growing up looking at those adverts on Time’s magazine backpage.. back in the day, some brands i remembered from my dad’s collections was Concord, Bertolucci, Raymond Weil, Guy Laroche n Ebel....all could be dying aswell... 🥺😕
I had a Zenith Elite for about 15 years. Lovely watch but I never knew anyone else wear one. When LVMH bought the brand they messed it up for a few years and now they seem to be struggling even more. Big discounts available. What nailed it for me was when I wanted to trade it in. The number of dealers who just weren't interested even in making me an offer was surprising. No market for them they said.
Nevertheless, regardless of the market vogue, El Primero is an amazing chronograph watch with a rich history. I don't have one, but I would cherish one more than most Rolexes, which I find boring. I am particularly fond of complication watches, regardless of market preference. I have a Rolex Datejust, but just in order to have a Rolex in my collection. I have a Speedmaster and an Ulysse Nardin Sonata, which is probably my favorite watch, despite not being a very tradable watch either. I once had a Submariner, but I do find it a bit boring. A watch that just shows the time... you can't interact with it. For me a watch has a soul, and if it has any complication that lets you interact with, then that is the watch I would put on my wrist! Love your watch. It is a a worthy timekeeping piece.
If you want to look like a big Ethnic that wears a muscle singlet but needs a 44d bra instead, yeah sure of course people are going to comment on your budget Panerai because it just suits you superbly.
@@jojonesjojo8919 some models may not be good but most of them look stunning and yes they do get all the attention while on the wrist whatever one might say!it may look kind of macho etc but that about perception!
Yes and my uber fav and is on my wrist most of the week, the 312 is a classic!!a bit overpriced is what i also feel but the wow factor it generates compared to the other watches one wears is not comparable and its mainly due to.the crown protector and minimalistic dial!
@Lee’s Ollie yes it is but I guess their prices are high because they make only approx 75000 watches a year and it remains exclusive and desirable that way!!
Panerai is one of my favourites too but I feel they are priced too high for what they're worth. I would say they are a notch lower in terms of pedigree, price and class then what they think they are at.
@@MrAsH412 their quality and finish is tops as far as the 1950 cases, Submersible and Radiomir 1940 goes!also their price shld be higher as theh make only about 75000 watches a year!!
I actually own several Corum bubble (early 2000 models and some of the recent models) watches and a 2017 Admirals Cup, I actually just purchased the Bubble 47 Elisabetta Fantone for my collection. I think they are fantastic pieces that always grab a lot of attention.
I see Corum bubble watches occasionally on the commuter train I take to work. I don't have one because they're too big for me but I think they're terrific.
At the end of the day, if you love your timepieces that's the most important thing. You gotta wear them with pride. But I don't think that changes the fact that the popularity of some brands have gone up/down in recent years.
I can't speak to the East coast but here in California, I always see people in the Panerai boutiques particularly in South Coast Plaza and in CJ Charles in San Diego. I recognize that is a very small sample size, I just wanted to point out that there does appear to be activity out here at least.
How about Rado? I like their resurrected Captain Cooks but the vast majority of their line-up are those black, shiny ceramic watches that I have never ever seen anyone wear . I noticed one of their quartz watches in a big retailer here in Madrid skipping seconds meaning it had been in the case so long the battery was dying.
I have the Corum bubble chronograph automatic. Gets noticed immediately and is the topic of discussion more so than my Daytona or any of my other watches. Either you love it or hate it. I love it. The only thing is the watch is bulky and heavy due to the thick crystal.
@ekim andersom Omega is by far the most reasonably priced one for their Seamaster and Speedmaster range and top quality as well.A Seamaster 300 (new one) is better than Rolex Sub as far as mechanics go and even the design!!Price is around $2000 less than the Sub!!
@ekim andersom Omega seamaster is priced at about $4500 anywhere in Asia or US so should be around €3900..Brietling Colt is no comparison and has mostly a ETA movement and is not in the league of the Seamaster!Also Colt is not a dive watch and its well known that good Dive watches r very sturdy and last almost a lifetime!can always find a 70's Seamaster even now in pristine shape and can w see a Colt of that era??
It's just a tall order to expect people to pay big money for fashion or faddish designs. All your top brands have essentially timeless designs that are similar to current models. That protects value. Panerai is simply a victim of the trend of watches getting back to reasonable sizes. Those 44-47+ mm cases are stuck in a very small niche.
Seiko and Citizen make the most reliable and economical watches on the market...by far my two favourite brands can use them in all environments and on all occasions
The new Movado has really gone down hill. They have gone the route of cheaply made fashion watches with a high retail price. Very disappointing! The old vintage Movado was a much better product. 1 of the problems with all these brands is with the change of ownership they lost their way.
Theres just too many out there. If everyone i met in the street owned at least 1 high end watch, it wouldn't be an issue, but they're all trying to sell to a relatively small market segment, people that still wear watches, and want to spend 4 to 5 figures on one. Thats why companies need big marketing budgets and cock and bull stories about their heritage. I will say this though, baume and mercier have a chance since they're big in south american markets.
@@JohnPWatches As a professional, You shouldn't be blaming a person shitty attidute and hate on the entire brand. Such people can exist in every boutique 'Rolex, Patek, Omega you name it!
John P first time I disagree with you. I think they have a big following, rich in history (more than Rolex, at least to me) and the quality is there. Maybe yes, they don’t have the fun, IT factor they used to have, but they are the brand for the people who know about watches, love horology and the history behind it. To me personally, the less people have them, the more unique it becomes.
John P also, the staff at the NYC boutique are very friendly and don’t size you up...you can come in and have a nice chat and do some window shopping with out buying. Just saying :)
After the acquisition by Chinese investors … Corum will be known as a ‘Chinese brand, even though the assembly is done in Switzerland ( just as Apple is an American brand, though the iPhone is assembled in China). It will end up being a ‘luxury watch’ targeted and heavily promoted in the Chinese market. Expect country specific models in bright red soon.
I think Panerai will survive, they make fine, distinctive watches, & are owned by Richemont, and they will be fine under that corporate umbrella. I'd be more concerned about the future of Breitling under their current ownership..and the other go it alone players, who aren't Rolex, or don't have the financial security of being owned by one of the big luxury conglomerates with deep pockets that already own so many famous names of the industry.
Agreed! Panerai is the strongest of the 5. Also, Roger Dubuis has a very good reputation in Asian luxury watch markets. And more than half of the world population lives in Asia :-D. So, maybe that is a chance for RD to survive.
Why arent jacob & co, nardin, mueller, corum, bell & ross, eterna, ebel, GP, bulova, lorus, montblanc, piaget and uboat out of business yet? They have to move a lot of watches to keep operations going, who are the buyers..?
RGM watches are some of the best value currently available. They have hand made cases, engine turned or fire enameled dials, and both in-house and ebauche movements that are finely tuned and finished. If you call RGM, Mr Murphy will come to the phone to discuss your watch and allow you to add custom features so it’s the exact watch you want, not the next off the assembly line.
Brands like Rolex, Omega, Breitling, Tudor, Longines etc. will never die, brands like Richard Mille, Jacob and Co and Hublot lack the timeless qualities to ensure their endurance.
I was offered up to 60% on several Le Monegasque models in London, Geneva or Zürich, the brand is dead, I think they have really fantastic design but unfortunately being so different, they struggle to sell. By the way, the Monegasque red gold model is 25000 retail, but has a PIN buckle, rather than deployment. I would't buy it even for for 10000€.
Recently added an RGM 151B to my collection. Why? Well, I wanted a “tool” watch. One with a bulletproof case, easy to read dial, easily serviced and with a nicely, but not elaborately finished movement. The Grand Seiko and Omega line ups were all twice the price and much too thick-it’s a tool watch and yes, it will get banged into things. For $3K try to find another 38-39mm watch that does what the RGM does. I’m not a total fan boy as their cases for the 801 movement are not my style. The cases for the 20 movement have appeal.
Don't think these brands will 'die' with their immense financial backings, you have to understand each unique brand has their own periods of ups and downs, just like fashion or even the stock market, a few years of popularity and relevancy, a few years of resting and restructuring, it happens with all industries.
I cant agree with ur assessment of Panerai!!at least in India, China and Asia and is looked up in awe by pretty much everywhere!!the issue is not may sell it before at least 5-7 years and at least here they r expanding their boutiques so they wont be doing it unless there is scope and brand is doing well.
Hi John...I have a admirals cup tides ac45 tides edition with the all grey flags. Purchased 6 months ago on grey market for 3k new. Although I'm happy with the watch, and the price I paid. The case back has a mound shape to it that does not fit me well, and is somewhat uncomfortable. I plan on trading this towards a Chrono Swiss opus, or white dial panerai in about a year or two. I figure the cost of ownership will be about 1k as I will lose some in trade. Thanks for the good content
I used to have a corum Golden bridge. It was a cool watch, but I hated looking at my own arm... the only Corum I’ve seen in the last decade was an admiral on a guy I arrested for a DUI. A shipping barge captain. He complimented my Hulk. Lol. also RGM.... way tooooooo much for what they offer.
I have a Corum bubble Royal Flush. The dial is unbelievable. I will never get rid of it. But it is not my everyday watch. Not worried about resale value. I love unloved brands. Give me Corum. Ulysse Nardin. Gerard Perregaux. You can keep Rolex, never wanted one, never will.
I got a Corum Admirals cup as a hand-me down from my dad. The watch itself looks great and the quality seems really solid. However, I would never buy one with my hard earned money. The leather strap it came with wasn’t so good. It left black stains on my watch winder. The deployant buckle it came with digs into my arms which I blame on poor design.
@ray h. if they make their living doing this then they should have shared the data with a link etc showing the decline in numbers that he says are available or just said there is no data to support this but based on what we're seeing at Delray watches we believe sales are declining.
I started to watch your video, it talks very realistic issues. I just bought a corum bubble- the one that is red/orange in colour, I like the design and delicate workmanship. Hope that corum will sustain
Panerai is expensive to keep people that cant rock it correctly from wearing it. If you cant afford a Panerai then that means you cant afford the lifestyle that supposed to come with it. I'm on my second Panerai and there isnt a watch made that approaches the way it looks. The Luminor is quite simply cold blooded. Panerai is simply iconic and now with the in house movement, it is equal to 95 percent of the watches out there except for probably ALS and AP (which is cheap looking). I want to them to keep the prices high as possible so only people who really love the watch get it because when I rock my 320 I feel nothing but SUPREME CONFIDENCE. I really really really like my Rolex gold and steel sub but its the 320 I wear the most by far!!
Great video. Lots of factors going on here, first of all, they all believed in infinite growth. This is the reason RGM will be ok, they are a low production brand. Corum and B&R have no business producing as many watches as they do. Another point is its really hard for a lot of people to justify Omega money for mid-range horology most people haven't heard of. If i have $6k to spend on a watch, and its going to be one of maybe 2 or 3 nice watches i own, its going to be a blue chip. Again we're talking the very crowded mid-range. Theres 100 really good reasons to buy a Lange and hayne over a patek or a Parmegiani over a Rolex, but im at a loss as to why i should spend omega or tudor money on a Bell and Ross.
I never understood why Eterna never got more popular. I love the one I own (1942 Heritage Pulsometer). I know they are owned by a Chinese investment group, but they are still great watches for a reasonable price.
With RGM, I think there's a sense that neither the old fans nor RGM themselves wants to look too closely at or show off their products. Especially in the more educated consumer environment. If you look closely at RGM's conventional products you see absurdly overpriced ETA-casing. If you look closely at RGM's "in-house" movements you see an absurd amount of ETA as well...
I think the issue with panerai is its such a distinct design its really at the mercy of current trends. A Rolex, as you pointed out, well, black out the dial and everything is either a submariner or datejust. But thats why it holds up. Conservative, but classic. No funky shapes or weird wire lugs or crazy case proportions.
@@papachung6639 I own a 1960 Rolex GMT that my Dad gave me. He got it brand new for about $120 dollars US. Now a Rolex that is just like it would cost $10 grand. What is wrong with that picture? I do not wear my Rolex nor will I sell it. I think Rolexes are the ugliest watches ever created.
Check out their white dial racing birds ;) i love them. I dont like all their big square ones.. they should reduce the amount of the squares and focus more on round designs...
Panerai is the watch I get most positive comments, or comments at all. Zenith pilot, Chopard Mille Miglia and Seiko Spring Drive, even though being very interesting watches, don't inspire similar enthusiasm by the onlookers than the Panerai Submersible.
Omega is chugging right along too. In fact, it's making a pretty big comeback and actually out did rolex last quarter. With the Rolex SS shortage, Omega is filling the gap. Also, the Omega Seamaster 300m 2018 is a real deal Sub Killer.
There are too many Swiss watch companies, which are virtually unknown to the general public, selling watches which often seem quite normal out of steel, but at inflated prices. Also, a lot of these watches either look classic but just like all the others...or many look original but kinda wierd. The public looks and says that they can get a quality watch from a Japanese brand at 1/10 th the price. Generally only the very well known brands such a Omega/Rolex can convince lots of folks to pony up $thousands for a steel watch. One has to love the brand or its status to pay the premium and these smaller brands generally do not have that.
next list should be up and coming watchbrands (maybe give phoibos a shout out, they got some interesting designs, they also use eta movements and idk shows you give love to microbrand 2)
I am sure most people wearing Ed Hardy hoodies wld mot be able to afford a Panerai as they were priced quite high even at that time..pls just look up Insta and see what Hollywood actors like The Rock, Jason Statham, Sly and Arnie wear on a regular basis!!
Ok am not from that part so would not know much but hv travelled for business practically all over and there is always an element of admiration for this brand and its also true that wearing this is very personality driven and quite a few cant pull it off or get put off by the bulk of it!!
Well said. Their earlier prices probably had more value in them for what they are. I also liked their original diver when it came out. Now, would be not the best idea.
And we also should speak about, other brands, like baume and mercier and jager le coutre, very well known watches but without expression in the current Market.
Watches in general are losing popularity due to smart phones. Just like pay phones and computers. The better these smart phones are getting, the lower in sales for other products. Suits and tucked in dress shirts are also declining. Phone books, house phones and the complete demise of car phones also fell to all time lows.
As a beginner, it seems to me to be all about design and performance. If a watch looks cool and sexy then it will go places. If it looks pretentious, regardless of how well it's made and the company's history, a resentment factor creeps in. If these companies did a little more marketing of the kind that Daniel Wellington, Filippo Loreti and MVMT do, they would be more popular. Ultimately, its about telling the time and impressing the person who asked you what time it was.
Always liked and wanted a B&R watch..now is the time to buy one. Trends mean very little to me, its all about style and function and I think they still have both.
I guess they can't get a Panerai dealership. Try going to a Pammy AD and getting a Bronzo. No Bueno. Oh, but you can get a limited edition James Bond watch from Omeeeega as long as you are one of the 7007, let's see if that holds value since none of the other Omeeeegas do. I get a little tired of people bashing others for what they buy, wear and keep in their respective collections. Buy, wear and keep what YOU like. Regardless. Emotional attachment means more than money (unless you don't have money) then you shouldn't be buying high-end watches. I was surprised he didn't mention Ebel. That's a line that was run into the ground by the management of that company. LOL
Where do you get your stats? Is this from an American market perspective or a global perspective? A lot of watch brands are not doing great in Sales aside from the 3 big boys. Eg: Patek, AP, Rolex. But there are always niche followings and popularity doesn't really dwindle
Buy what YOU like, not what someone tells you to buy!!! Market is flooded with toooooooo many watches and now they (watch dealers and makers) are left holding the bag. There is a reason there are so may USED watched dealers. Educate yourself on what you are buying and the rest will fall into place.
I collect vintage Omegas. I am wearing a 18k rose gold bumper from 1944. If you look at it , it sure as hell does not look like a watch that is 76 years old.
Tudor is a different story than most brands. The fact they are made by Rolex and more reasonably priced, will keep them popular.
nobody handles marketing like the wildorf foundation
I cant wait till Richard Mille and Hublot hype is over!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I totally can see the Millie losing value within the next five years.
RM story will be a disaster in the end..probably a good lesson for the community as well
All it will take for Richard Mille prices to tank is that one of the like three dudes in the middle east that buy 40% of their production to try to sell their collections.
Hublot wtf
@@pavy415 yes sadly in my part of the world lots of people still like Hublot. Eastern Europe and Russia.
I’ve spent this afternoon watching your vids. Really good. Very authentic and informative. I’m fed up with watch UA-camrs letting their inflated egos ‘get in the way’. You have great content. Many thanks.
Watching 2 years later, you're batting .000 my friend. I really don't think any of these are leaving us anytime soon.
Fast forward to 1:59 to start watching the actual video.
nick h damn, what do I do now with the gained 1:59 minutes in my life???
Bell & Ross is advertising on our bus stops in Singapore. 😂😂😂
What you laughing? With how rich Singapore is, I think it’s a great strategy to advertise to middle class.
@@AG-en5y Singapore isn’t middle class, a condo unit would cost 1.8m USD in Singapore. USA is more middle class, your gated community houses are only at 450k USD lol.
What chance have great watches got when the Rolex Fan Boys think that a Geneva Seal is something found in the ocean...
Richard Mille will be #1 on that list in 10 years from now.
100% agreed with Roger Dubuis. Their 2000s watches are incredible. I own a 40mm easy diver, impossible to find now and such a cool combination of old and new. Hope they bring back homage and sympathy lines
Just a small point, rambling on for two minutes and then saying "let's jump right into it"...isn't jumping right into it.
Richard Clowes right
You have somewhere you got to be?
to the point!
Richard Clowes gotta make that ad money lol
Hehe... true.
Swiss watch brands never die they are just resurrected 100s of years later. Still flipping through the Favre Leuba catalogues wondering wtf.
I’ve never met a single person ever wearing Corum. Ever.
I knew couple who had matching pair of Corums
I wear a corum admiral cup 18kt beautiful watch, Beautiful movement. Look them up, there really nice better than a rolex I personally think.
Well , that’s 13 minutes that I’ll never get back
@@kaylanwood2286 plenty of things are nicer than Rolex...doesn't mean people wear corum lol wouldn't surprise me if they sold less than 10k a year
In almost 2 decades of being a watch geek, working in the jewelry industry, both retail and as a bench jeweler, and hanging out with other watch geeks, I've known 2, one was a gold coin watch, one was an admiral's cup from the 90s.
1: thesis statement, 2: summary of your thesis (5 dying watches - name them) 3: PIE - proof, information, example. learn to tell a story and you won't have to beg people to hit the like button.
HATE when "UA-camrs" act like beggars. If you're good, you don't need to lose dignity by begging people to "like, share, subscribe"
If you were in Europe except for Dubuis and RGM the other brands are selling very well here. Tudor were selling very well before they reentered the US market as well in Europe. Panerai especially sells very well as does a Breitling here and Bell and Ross and they all retain much more of their price than they do in the US or Canada. I used to live in Canada and Breitling tanked in value once out of the door but here in Vienna even twenty year old ones sell for good money still.
Love my Panerai, it’s my daily wear.
Whack
RGM is a solid brand with a great reputation so they'll be fine. Not enough people know about them.
Great topical video. I can't believe Corum and Bell & Ross are still around.
I liked Corum when I was a teenager. I am now 70.
almost forty, find it cool and planning to buy one.
I am 55, I just bought a corum bubble, workmanship is good
lol. Me too. The coin got me...
My first luxury watch
I really like RGM watches, especially the 151 Pilot line, specifically the 151-OP pilot watch, without date - stunning.
i love Corum Admiral’s Cup (and still am now) growing up looking at those adverts on Time’s magazine backpage.. back in the day, some brands i remembered from my dad’s collections was Concord, Bertolucci, Raymond Weil, Guy Laroche n Ebel....all could be dying aswell... 🥺😕
I had a Zenith Elite for about 15 years. Lovely watch but I never knew anyone else wear one. When LVMH bought the brand they messed it up for a few years and now they seem to be struggling even more. Big discounts available. What nailed it for me was when I wanted to trade it in. The number of dealers who just weren't interested even in making me an offer was surprising. No market for them they said.
Nevertheless, regardless of the market vogue, El Primero is an amazing chronograph watch with a rich history. I don't have one, but I would cherish one more than most Rolexes, which I find boring. I am particularly fond of complication watches, regardless of market preference. I have a Rolex Datejust, but just in order to have a Rolex in my collection. I have a Speedmaster and an Ulysse Nardin Sonata, which is probably my favorite watch, despite not being a very tradable watch either. I once had a Submariner, but I do find it a bit boring. A watch that just shows the time... you can't interact with it. For me a watch has a soul, and if it has any complication that lets you interact with, then that is the watch I would put on my wrist!
Love your watch. It is a a worthy timekeeping piece.
Love Panerai. Gets the most comments when its on my wrist.
If you want to look like a big Ethnic that wears a muscle singlet but needs a 44d bra instead, yeah sure of course people are going to comment on your budget Panerai because it just suits you superbly.
@@shaneblack8082 Ouch. You sir are a bit of a snob. Look up the PAM1616. Don't like?
V true!
@@jojonesjojo8919 some models may not be good but most of them look stunning and yes they do get all the attention while on the wrist whatever one might say!it may look kind of macho etc but that about perception!
I have a panerai pam 005 l get more compliments than my ROLEX SUBMARINER CERAMIC & ROLEX EXPLORER!
I hope to get a Panerai sooner or later, if they come cheaper, well, I'm gonna take advantage of it!
Panerai is my favorite.
Yes and my uber fav and is on my wrist most of the week, the 312 is a classic!!a bit overpriced is what i also feel but the wow factor it generates compared to the other watches one wears is not comparable and its mainly due to.the crown protector and minimalistic dial!
Panerai is a top brand and a cool watch
@Lee’s Ollie yes it is but I guess their prices are high because they make only approx 75000 watches a year and it remains exclusive and desirable that way!!
Panerai is one of my favourites too but I feel they are priced too high for what they're worth. I would say they are a notch lower in terms of pedigree, price and class then what they think they are at.
@@MrAsH412 their quality and finish is tops as far as the 1950 cases, Submersible and Radiomir 1940 goes!also their price shld be higher as theh make only about 75000 watches a year!!
Panerai, Bell&Ross, Corum, RGM and
Rodger Debuis?
I actually own several Corum bubble (early 2000 models and some of the recent models) watches and a 2017 Admirals Cup, I actually just purchased the Bubble 47 Elisabetta Fantone for my collection. I think they are fantastic pieces that always grab a lot of attention.
I see Corum bubble watches occasionally on the commuter train I take to work. I don't have one because they're too big for me but I think they're terrific.
At the end of the day, if you love your timepieces that's the most important thing. You gotta wear them with pride. But I don't think that changes the fact that the popularity of some brands have gone up/down in recent years.
I can't speak to the East coast but here in California, I always see people in the Panerai boutiques particularly in South Coast Plaza and in CJ Charles in San Diego. I recognize that is a very small sample size, I just wanted to point out that there does appear to be activity out here at least.
How about Rado? I like their resurrected Captain Cooks but the vast majority of their line-up are those black, shiny ceramic watches that I have never ever seen anyone wear . I noticed one of their quartz watches in a big retailer here in Madrid skipping seconds meaning it had been in the case so long the battery was dying.
My uncle wears one... the man pushes 80 though ;-)
RADO remains huge in Asia and the east.
I have the Corum bubble chronograph automatic. Gets noticed immediately and is the topic of discussion more so than my Daytona or any of my other watches. Either you love it or hate it. I love it. The only thing is the watch is bulky and heavy due to the thick crystal.
Can’t beat an OMEGA, great quality time piece at the right price!
Their pricing with quality is spot on!!
@ekim andersom Omega is by far the most reasonably priced one for their Seamaster and Speedmaster range and top quality as well.A Seamaster 300 (new one) is better than Rolex Sub as far as mechanics go and even the design!!Price is around $2000 less than the Sub!!
ekim andersom just curios, which brand has the best bang for buck in your opinion ?
@ekim andersom about the Sub being overpriced i agree!!
@ekim andersom Omega seamaster is priced at about $4500 anywhere in Asia or US so should be around €3900..Brietling Colt is no comparison and has mostly a ETA movement and is not in the league of the Seamaster!Also Colt is not a dive watch and its well known that good Dive watches r very sturdy and last almost a lifetime!can always find a 70's Seamaster even now in pristine shape and can w see a Colt of that era??
It's just a tall order to expect people to pay big money for fashion or faddish designs. All your top brands have essentially timeless designs that are similar to current models. That protects value. Panerai is simply a victim of the trend of watches getting back to reasonable sizes. Those 44-47+ mm cases are stuck in a very small niche.
Seiko and Citizen make the most reliable and economical watches on the market...by far my two favourite brands can use them in all environments and on all occasions
+ Casio and Orient✔️🍻
Yawn...
The fact that my watches are not considered "popular" makes them even more attractive to me. Buy/wear what you like.
The new Movado has really gone down hill. They have gone the route of cheaply made fashion watches with a high retail price. Very disappointing! The old vintage Movado was a much better product. 1 of the problems with all these brands is with the change of ownership they lost their way.
Agree with the brands you named and will add:
Baume and Mercier
Jeanrichard
Bucherer
Well put
Theres just too many out there. If everyone i met in the street owned at least 1 high end watch, it wouldn't be an issue, but they're all trying to sell to a relatively small market segment, people that still wear watches, and want to spend 4 to 5 figures on one. Thats why companies need big marketing budgets and cock and bull stories about their heritage. I will say this though, baume and mercier have a chance since they're big in south american markets.
I own a titanium JR and I love it. It's unfortunate that no one knows about them.... JeanRichard is under GP which maybe dying as well...
John P's speciality : Ranting about Panerai.
Hoping Panerai execs see this and are overcome with motivation. If they treated me better in the boutique I'd go easy on them :)
@@JohnPWatches As a professional, You shouldn't be blaming a person shitty attidute and hate on the entire brand. Such people can exist in every boutique 'Rolex, Patek, Omega you name it!
Good. It is a one trick pony. Panarai and the huge watch craze are dead.
John P first time I disagree with you. I think they have a big following, rich in history (more than Rolex, at least to me) and the quality is there. Maybe yes, they don’t have the fun, IT factor they used to have, but they are the brand for the people who know about watches, love horology and the history behind it. To me personally, the less people have them, the more unique it becomes.
John P also, the staff at the NYC boutique are very friendly and don’t size you up...you can come in and have a nice chat and do some window shopping with out buying. Just saying :)
For entry level luxury watches, Oris is by far the best choice quality/price watch u can buy under 2000$
you could go german with damasko or sinn, or if you go swiss, i'd throw tudor in there
@@mitchaelhollingsworth1698 in terms of choices for under 2k I agree with sinn but tudor not much options under 2k
Dealing with Oris for warranty issues is a nightmare and I do not trust their reliability
I like the admirals cup but personally wouldn’t spend money on them simply because I could probably never get out of it 😂
There’s absolutely no comparison between RGM and Shinola. Insane to use them in the same discussion.
I think you need to listen to his comment again.
After the acquisition by Chinese investors … Corum will be known as a ‘Chinese brand, even though the assembly is done in Switzerland ( just as Apple is an American brand, though the iPhone is assembled in China). It will end up being a ‘luxury watch’ targeted and heavily promoted in the Chinese market. Expect country specific models in bright red soon.
Would have a panerai tomorrow if they made a smaller watch like they used too.
There are a lot of 42 mm watches by them availiable.
Good video. Haven’t heard a lot about these brands since I’ve been collecting!
I think Panerai will survive, they make fine, distinctive watches, & are owned by Richemont, and they will be fine under that corporate umbrella. I'd be more concerned about the future of Breitling under their current ownership..and the other go it alone players, who aren't Rolex, or don't have the financial security of being owned by one of the big luxury conglomerates with deep pockets that already own so many famous names of the industry.
Agreed! Panerai is the strongest of the 5. Also, Roger Dubuis has a very good reputation in Asian luxury watch markets. And more than half of the world population lives in Asia :-D. So, maybe that is a chance for RD to survive.
When I saw this Vlog, I thought ho..hum..here we go! Found it very interesting to my surprise. Thanks.
Thanks !
Why arent jacob & co, nardin, mueller, corum, bell & ross, eterna, ebel, GP, bulova, lorus, montblanc, piaget and uboat out of business yet? They have to move a lot of watches to keep operations going, who are the buyers..?
Im actually happy with this trend. I dont see many Panerais on the street. Just me.
RGM watches are some of the best value currently available. They have hand made cases, engine turned or fire enameled dials, and both in-house and ebauche movements that are finely tuned and finished. If you call RGM, Mr Murphy will come to the phone to discuss your watch and allow you to add custom features so it’s the exact watch you want, not the next off the assembly line.
Brands like Rolex, Omega, Breitling, Tudor, Longines etc. will never die, brands like Richard Mille, Jacob and Co and Hublot lack the timeless qualities to ensure their endurance.
What about grand seiko
@@tylerotaniconlon1990 i wonder about grand seiko. they're like a fad right now or something
I am a Roger Dubuis fan and was surprised to hear they decreased in popularity. But hey, can't argue with the stats.
I was offered up to 60% on several Le Monegasque models in London, Geneva or Zürich, the brand is dead, I think they have really fantastic design but unfortunately being so different, they struggle to sell. By the way, the Monegasque red gold model is 25000 retail, but has a PIN buckle, rather than deployment. I would't buy it even for for 10000€.
Corum. It’s a icon with the automatic $20 coin ultra thin watches; really a piece of art instead of just a watch.
I have a Pam 312, i love this watch but i hate the brand Panerai....is it funny?
I'm sorry to hear about RGM. I think they are gorgeous.
Recently added an RGM 151B to my collection. Why? Well, I wanted a “tool” watch. One with a bulletproof case, easy to read dial, easily serviced and with a nicely, but not elaborately finished movement. The Grand Seiko and Omega line ups were all twice the price and much too thick-it’s a tool watch and yes, it will get banged into things. For $3K try to find another 38-39mm watch that does what the RGM does. I’m not a total fan boy as their cases for the 801 movement are not my style. The cases for the 20 movement have appeal.
Would you be so kind doing a video about Universal Geneve and their reboot? Or no reboot? A history of Universal Geneve?
Why? And who cares?
@@locutusdborg126 Because i care
Universal Geneve has a pretty dedicated following in the vintage world. Lots of people care.
Don't think these brands will 'die' with their immense financial backings, you have to understand each unique brand has their own periods of ups and downs, just like fashion or even the stock market, a few years of popularity and relevancy, a few years of resting and restructuring, it happens with all industries.
I cant agree with ur assessment of Panerai!!at least in India, China and Asia and is looked up in awe by pretty much everywhere!!the issue is not may sell it before at least 5-7 years and at least here they r expanding their boutiques so they wont be doing it unless there is scope and brand is doing well.
That green Moser was beautiful!
Yes sir!
H. Moser was the main deliverer of the glockworks for the Fabergé Eggs, after all....
Up your background game.
Panarai does make great watches. The problem with them is that they are too over priced. They must realise this to stay ahead.
What is the real reason you like expensive watches? Isn't there any watches that cost less than $500 that you would allow yourself to like and wear?
I'm just happy A. Lange & Söhne is still chugging along. Rumours of a steel sports model from them have me concerned and excited though.
I was told to hold off on any watches till end of this month or early next month. From a Mgr of A&S so something is cooking over there.
Hi John...I have a admirals cup tides ac45 tides edition with the all grey flags. Purchased 6 months ago on grey market for 3k new. Although I'm happy with the watch, and the price I paid. The case back has a mound shape to it that does not fit me well, and is somewhat uncomfortable. I plan on trading this towards a Chrono Swiss opus, or white dial panerai in about a year or two. I figure the cost of ownership will be about 1k as I will lose some in trade. Thanks for the good content
Forget about Panarai, they are no longer popular.
Fortis, huge thick expensive pilot watches.
Maybe huge and thick...but competitive pricing is one of the brands stronger points.
Another great video brother!
I was considering purchasing a Corum watch at a huge discount some are pretty cool looking.
Yes, Corum makes some nice watches.
That bridge watch is amazing.
I used to have a corum Golden bridge. It was a cool watch, but I hated looking at my own arm... the only Corum I’ve seen in the last decade was an admiral on a guy I arrested for a DUI. A shipping barge captain. He complimented my Hulk. Lol. also RGM.... way tooooooo much for what they offer.
Well put ~
Hi John. Your glasses look great. What is the brand/model of your frames? Cheers, Brendan.
I have a Corum bubble Royal Flush. The dial is unbelievable. I will never get rid of it. But it is not my everyday watch. Not worried about resale value. I love unloved brands. Give me Corum. Ulysse Nardin. Gerard Perregaux. You can keep Rolex, never wanted one, never will.
I got a Corum Admirals cup as a hand-me down from my dad. The watch itself looks great and the quality seems really solid. However, I would never buy one with my hard earned money.
The leather strap it came with wasn’t so good. It left black stains on my watch winder. The deployant buckle it came with digs into my arms which I blame on poor design.
Panerai for sure. I tried selling my zero, which is collectible, and took months. Sold it for pennies on the dollar.
Thanks for the info. Some people refuse to believe it. Good thing is if someone wanted one they are good deal now. They should just keep it forever :)
can you link to those numbers showing panerai sales are declining ?
@ray h. just saying that without the data this is a pointless piece of content
@ray h. if they make their living doing this then they should have shared the data with a link etc showing the decline in numbers that he says are available or just said there is no data to support this but based on what we're seeing at Delray watches we believe sales are declining.
The Roger Dubuis supercar collabs were amazing!
I started to watch your video, it talks very realistic issues. I just bought a corum bubble- the one that is red/orange in colour, I like the design and delicate workmanship. Hope that corum will sustain
Panerai is expensive to keep people that cant rock it correctly from wearing it. If you cant afford a Panerai then that means you cant afford the lifestyle that supposed to come with it. I'm on my second Panerai and there isnt a watch made that approaches the way it looks. The Luminor is quite simply cold blooded.
Panerai is simply iconic and now with the in house movement, it is equal to 95 percent of the watches out there except for probably ALS and AP (which is cheap looking).
I want to them to keep the prices high as possible so only people who really love the watch get it because when I rock my 320 I feel nothing but SUPREME CONFIDENCE.
I really really really like my Rolex gold and steel sub but its the 320 I wear the most by far!!
Great video. Lots of factors going on here, first of all, they all believed in infinite growth. This is the reason RGM will be ok, they are a low production brand. Corum and B&R have no business producing as many watches as they do. Another point is its really hard for a lot of people to justify Omega money for mid-range horology most people haven't heard of. If i have $6k to spend on a watch, and its going to be one of maybe 2 or 3 nice watches i own, its going to be a blue chip. Again we're talking the very crowded mid-range. Theres 100 really good reasons to buy a Lange and hayne over a patek or a Parmegiani over a Rolex, but im at a loss as to why i should spend omega or tudor money on a Bell and Ross.
Waiting for Panerai to drop way low and pick one up.
I never understood why Eterna never got more popular. I love the one I own (1942 Heritage Pulsometer). I know they are owned by a Chinese investment group, but they are still great watches for a reasonable price.
With RGM, I think there's a sense that neither the old fans nor RGM themselves wants to look too closely at or show off their products. Especially in the more educated consumer environment. If you look closely at RGM's conventional products you see absurdly overpriced ETA-casing. If you look closely at RGM's "in-house" movements you see an absurd amount of ETA as well...
Still think RGM is the best chance for the United States to have or gain a watchmaker that does it right or we'll do it right!
@@rickgreen7393 Keaton Myrick is he guy you're looking for.
A New Hope....wait.... that phrase had been trademarked
Panerai may have nice movements and features, their design is squat and ugly and I wouldn't be caught dead wearing one.
When you talk about Panari you could say the same thing about Rolex, if you own a Rolex you have owned them all basically.
I think the issue with panerai is its such a distinct design its really at the mercy of current trends. A Rolex, as you pointed out, well, black out the dial and everything is either a submariner or datejust. But thats why it holds up. Conservative, but classic. No funky shapes or weird wire lugs or crazy case proportions.
@NQ yes Roles are too common looking to be so expensive
For The Love Of Seattle they’re common-looking because so many other brands mimic their designs, especially the the sub
@@papachung6639 I own a 1960 Rolex GMT that my Dad gave me. He got it brand new for about $120 dollars US. Now a Rolex that is just like it would cost $10 grand. What is wrong with that picture? I do not wear my Rolex nor will I sell it. I think Rolexes are the ugliest watches ever created.
Bell & Ross, ok ish, but not something to really lust over, would anyone miss them?
Check out their white dial racing birds ;) i love them. I dont like all their big square ones.. they should reduce the amount of the squares and focus more on round designs...
I'm always amazed G-P still exists.
Panerai is the watch I get most positive comments, or comments at all. Zenith pilot, Chopard Mille Miglia and Seiko Spring Drive, even though being very interesting watches, don't inspire similar enthusiasm by the onlookers than the Panerai Submersible.
Isn't every brand dying sans Rolex, Patek and AP? What would the current industry be without these three?
Omega is chugging right along too. In fact, it's making a pretty big comeback and actually out did rolex last quarter. With the Rolex SS shortage, Omega is filling the gap. Also, the Omega Seamaster 300m 2018 is a real deal Sub Killer.
@@bber45 Omega is killing sub sandwiches? Sorry but I don't get it
you forgot Omega
@@MTbone7 submariner lol
AP is dying, too!
There are too many Swiss watch companies, which are virtually unknown to the general public, selling watches which often seem quite normal out of steel, but at inflated prices. Also, a lot of these watches either look classic but just like all the others...or many look original but kinda wierd. The public looks and says that they can get a quality watch from a Japanese brand at 1/10 th the price. Generally only the very well known brands such a Omega/Rolex can convince lots of folks to pony up $thousands for a steel watch. One has to love the brand or its status to pay the premium and these smaller brands generally do not have that.
next list should be up and coming watchbrands (maybe give phoibos a shout out, they got some interesting designs, they also use eta movements and idk shows you give love to microbrand 2)
I remember when Panerai was VERY popular in the early 2000's when everyone was wearing Ed Hardy Hoodies!!!
I am sure most people wearing Ed Hardy hoodies wld mot be able to afford a Panerai as they were priced quite high even at that time..pls just look up Insta and see what Hollywood actors like The Rock, Jason Statham, Sly and Arnie wear on a regular basis!!
@@TheCasper0903 I was talking about Vancouver Gang members like Clayton Roueche and that's exactly how they used to dress like!
Ok am not from that part so would not know much but hv travelled for business practically all over and there is always an element of admiration for this brand and its also true that wearing this is very personality driven and quite a few cant pull it off or get put off by the bulk of it!!
Invicta destroyed Glycine. These watches are being dumped at every Costco nation wide!
Corum has never made anything that interested me. At one time, I really wanted an RGM Dive watch. They were not a brand I saw as a value proposition.
Well said. Their earlier prices probably had more value in them for what they are. I also liked their original diver when it came out. Now, would be not the best idea.
And we also should speak about, other brands, like baume and mercier and jager le coutre, very well known watches but without expression in the current Market.
Watches in general are losing popularity due to smart phones. Just like pay phones and computers. The better these smart phones are getting, the lower in sales for other products. Suits and tucked in dress shirts are also declining. Phone books, house phones and the complete demise of car phones also fell to all time lows.
Future brand to be on this list:
- Richard Mille
Can’t wait!
As a beginner, it seems to me to be all about design and performance. If a watch looks cool and sexy then it will go places. If it looks pretentious, regardless of how well it's made and the company's history, a resentment factor creeps in. If these companies did a little more marketing of the kind that Daniel Wellington, Filippo Loreti and MVMT do, they would be more popular. Ultimately, its about telling the time and impressing the person who asked you what time it was.
John - where did you get rubber band for your seamaster 300m?
You can add Chronoswiss to the list
Always liked and wanted a B&R watch..now is the time to buy one. Trends mean very little to me, its all about style and function and I think they still have both.
I guess they can't get a Panerai dealership. Try going to a Pammy AD and getting a Bronzo. No Bueno. Oh, but you can get a limited edition James Bond watch from Omeeeega as long as you are one of the 7007, let's see if that holds value since none of the other Omeeeegas do.
I get a little tired of people bashing others for what they buy, wear and keep in their respective collections. Buy, wear and keep what YOU like. Regardless. Emotional attachment means more than money (unless you don't have money) then you shouldn't be buying high-end watches.
I was surprised he didn't mention Ebel. That's a line that was run into the ground by the management of that company. LOL
Where do you get your stats? Is this from an American market perspective or a global perspective? A lot of watch brands are not doing great in Sales aside from the 3 big boys.
Eg: Patek, AP, Rolex.
But there are always niche followings and popularity doesn't really dwindle
Buy what YOU like, not what someone tells you to buy!!! Market is flooded with toooooooo many watches and now they (watch dealers and makers) are left holding the bag. There is a reason there are so may USED watched dealers. Educate yourself on what you are buying and the rest will fall into place.
I collect vintage Omegas. I am wearing a 18k rose gold bumper from 1944. If you look at it , it sure as hell does not look like a watch that is 76 years old.