As a 40k player, im starting to notice some things that are unnecessarily complicated, like cover rules. The whole appeal to legion was its simplicity. I didn’t have to go through two rule books to see if a point of damage will go through a character. Legion it was just roll your attack dice, apply your keywords and tokens, roll defense dice
still pretty simple with the new rules. Change is you roll white dice as cover. Light cover is shield blocks, heavy is shield and surge block. It acts a pre defense roll now. The intent being the small attack pools will have an increased hit rate.
They killed my two favorite games and are turning the last game I like of their’s into the one game that got them going. I’m out. I love Star Wars but this is ridiculous. If I want to play MCP I’d play that, you can’t force me to do it. I’m so glad Old World came out. I guess I’m going back to GW.
@@alejandrovigil9696 Read my response. If you like that change it may not be. But the company is putting all its eggs in one basket and it drives people like me away. I’m not interested in MCP or Shatterpoint. So when they killed X-Wing and Armada and now making Legion more like the other games I’m just done with the company. You may be more interested in the game but you’re not the only one who plays these games. We all like something different so when you make things all the same for convenience it only works for a small percentage of people. Glad it works for you, but this was the last straw for me. I’m done with the company and taking my money to a game that appeals to me. Sameness is not a good thing when you are supposed to be presenting different products. So it’s not a good thing for me. And it will cost them some customers, but it may convince you to buy more of their products. Which is more profitable I can’t say.
I appreciate it’s a rework and many people are excited for that. I’m happy for you all. But I didn’t want any of this. The game is not remotely resembling Legion I signed up for years ago. I don’t know what game this is, but it’s not the one I want to play anymore. It’s frustrating they forced all units to have cover basically always and then justified changing the cover entirely as a result. “We broke it and we didn’t like how broken it was so we decided to change it entirely”. Disappointing
I appreciate the vibe of cautious optimism. It's a beloved game by many, and I hope that communities continue to thrive. I know that if someone asked to play "1.0" with me, I'd be more than happy, but I'm excited to try these new rules, too.
I'm definitely going to give the new rules a few goes before passing judgement. The only thing I absolutely hate up-front is the new Transport rule, which doesn't make logical sense and effectively removes the concept of transports from the game past turn 1.
Between being burned by X-Wing 2.0 and really seeing the hands on the wheel making me buy more stuff to pay down a debt they were saddled with, I’m having a lot of trouble seeing positives. I’m not loving a lot of the changes.
None of this is in response to the Embracer debt. These changes have been in the works for years. Any TT game needs to find a way to get existing customers to purchase more, and this is the best way to do this. Existing players likely have 1 faction they can take to 1000 points right now, but in order to optimize they’ll need to buy more product. A rule refresh attracts the attention of new players.
Grevious is down to 130p, he got Entourage:Magna Guards and Immune: Pierce. He has pistol and sabers already in his profile and got equipment slot instead of pistol. Oh boy I am excited to try him out!
*rope around the neck of X-wing and Armada, grinning* First time? AMG learned from the X-wing failed edition. They won't call it a new edition because they saw how badly it went when they tried a .5 change, and they saw how bad it went when FFG did 2.0. but like before they changed so much that really you're probably right to call it a new edition despite their statement. Don't be afraid to walk away and just use the old rules. You could even have a Legacy project like Armada and X-wing.
Im not pissed that they made a new edition (because thats what it is), im mad that they did it overnight without any prior announcements and it feels half baked. We have to use some new and some old cards now which is unproffesional.
Card packs are coming later this year according to the AMG UA-cam channel presentation. Yes, the rule changes are to make more money by requiring you to have more or different units. There is no other reason. Will this be better or will this be worse, time will tell. If the community accepts the changes, it will be great, if not, it will go the way of X-Wing and Armada. I suspect the cost to acquire some of the packs of units will also be higher as that is how AMG does things. I get it, they are in the business to make money, but this is usually what prevents new players to enter the game -- increasing the cost to entry.
I do feel that there are some changes that mirror the design philosophy that AMG took with Xwing 2.5 which does not give me good feels and I hope they have learnt from the handling of that game to be better with Legion and do it justice in the long run. Really wish they would just come out and say they are doing a new edition. Relaunch the core box and go from there... but I suspect that will come at some point.
You got the cover rules wrong. It’s a whole roll. You roll one per hit in the pool. And if it’s light cover you cancel a hit for every block and for heavy you cancel for every block and surge. Dodges still work the same but you apply them after the cover roll. For low pro it’s not just extra layer of cover. You just get an automatic block for one of your dice if you roll for cover. It’s interested. Idk how I feel about it yet
@@Chozo_hybrid I agree with the original comment. What you’re referring to is likely 2.5, not 2.0. The 2.0 release was actually pretty good in that it fixed a lot of the problems with 1.0. But then they just didn’t commit to it and that’s what led to 2.5, which failed.
Is sharpshooter still a thing? I assume low profile would give up to 3 blocks. This makes white defense dice way worse though, because without heavy cover you are pretty much taking the hits.
Wow, that’s a whole lot of changes for not being a new edition of the game. I didn‘t catch all the details. Some things seem to be good, like the e-web range increase. Some things seem to be odd, like nerfing the Clones once again. (Never mind the Experimental Droids!) But what really concerns me is reducing the game to 5 rounds. And because you deploy your army during round 1 it seems to me, that you actually only play 4 rounds. I‘m really not sure if it is the right way to go having bigger armies doing less activations?
As im reading it the cover rules arent capped at 2 saves for heavy. If when rolling the white cover dice you roll 5 blocks vs 6 hits the unit is then only taking 1 save on itself
Thx for your initial thoughts. Quik tip: if you could look at the camera your vids would be more engaging. I really agree it looks like a very interesting time to play swl and I too have to rethink my lists. Tuans may be back w/ new withdraw rule 😃
@@Dankergold I'd argue the unit balancing looks promising certainly for older units, but this is also a change that basically demands you buy more models, so this is a business motivated decision also.
I’m excited to see how this plays. Trying to schedule some practice games this weekend. Edit: also, the corps upgrades are in addition to the existing single guy upgrade iirc. So you can choose to add one or five for example
@@LEGIONOUTPOST idk too many is a bit subjective. They seem to want this to be their war game proper, and this seems like a good way to do it. Sure this is to make money, they’re a business. But they are trying to make the game better too.
@@Ignatiusofantioch87 maybe but only time will tell if it is better or not I still have to get the game in with the new rules and see if it is better or just a reworking of the game that was Good
I really like a lot of these changes. Very optimistic about the battle orders specifically. Nothing here is as egregious as the LOS rules they changed with the CRB. If your still playing after that change this is gonna be fine.
The LoS rules in the CRB are awful. And these rules try to mitigate its affect on the game by lessening its potency. We’ll see how it plays out I guess. Kinda wish they would have admitted they were wrong and reverted the LoS to the original with this refresh.
@@shadowsfromlight I totally agree that the CRB LoS rules are terrible. I am excited to try the new rules, I think that only getting cover from terrain at 3 inches might work very well. We will have to see.
I agree. It doesn't seem to be a "for the people" change. They really boosted a lot of the units for good but now theres no way for those buffs to be used to help in the old objectives. Im willing to play it out tho
This will pretty end me playing legion I just can’t be bothered printing cards I’m old school I like to buy things and have a physical rulebook. They should have waited to release this as a new core set with card packs to update your faction. Amg are absolutely terrible at managing games this is probably the end of legion it’s half arsed and unnecessary
Heyo, just a heads up you had a slight mistake in the new cover rules. If you have heavy cover and defend against 5 dice, you roll 5 cover saves with surge:block. If you make 3 saves, you cancel 3 hits. There is not limit against how many hits cover can block, light and heavy cover just change the probability of you making a cover save.
ya I had not looked at the rules at the point I was just responding to what I thought I heard but thanks I will be taking a deeper dive into it and doing a more in-depth look and some play testing before get too much into it
Instead of being mad at AMG, for changing the game to be more in line with their skill sets and passions, maybe fans should be mad at FFG for letting Alex Davies leave to begin with and their structural changes. AMG seems to have made a lot of great desicions with these changes. I doubt it brings back people who have left legion to shatterpoint but new people might join... Or the game will doe so AMG can tocus on shatterpoint.
My view is they wrecked the game with the last major changes to cover and slowly stripping back the usefuleness of force users, however I am pleased with teh unit refreshes, maybe I can just deal with the abstract cover systems now and see if things are a bit more fun and balanced.
With the changes to deflect not needing a dodge token to be used and becoming cheaper overall It looks to be better for force users. Something needed to happen to Force Push as it was an auto-include for almost every force user that had Mastery of the the Force.
As someone who has had interest in legion but has had issues with the gameplay in my few games of legion, I like the sound of these changes. Seems like cover will mean more now. Degraded units aren't useless anymore. The objectives aren't all or nothing making the first few turns not matter, now it's a dynamic fight. I like how both players influence the starting fight more. And as someone who wants to play gar, I'm hoping the gar changes help the faction be more competitive
Not for me, now the missions are all basically the same, take and hold. In 1st edition there was such a variety of missions to play that every game was fresh.
This is 100% a completely different game, AMG legion looks like shit. Changes literally almost every single aspect and says it’s not a new edition. Missions and secondary’s like Warhammer, legion was loved because it was different from other war games. The cards look like shit, AMG is ruining legion just like Disney ruined Star Wars. They flat out fucking lied about it not being a new edition… what else do we need. Shatter point sucks too lol
I don’t think it’s a 2.0 only because “editions” don’t really make sense in 2024. The only wargaming company that holds onto that old world is games workshop. I like the change and think they make a more tactical game. I think the larger community is over reacting
The rules feel so much nicer, im not sure why everyones so worried about the new cover being complicated its just all white dice with no modification per wound it takes all of 5 seconds, it makes the game much more pleasant because its not just republic gunline digging into barricades.
As a 40k player, im starting to notice some things that are unnecessarily complicated, like cover rules. The whole appeal to legion was its simplicity. I didn’t have to go through two rule books to see if a point of damage will go through a character. Legion it was just roll your attack dice, apply your keywords and tokens, roll defense dice
still pretty simple with the new rules. Change is you roll white dice as cover. Light cover is shield blocks, heavy is shield and surge block. It acts a pre defense roll now. The intent being the small attack pools will have an increased hit rate.
that's why I liked Legion over 40k it was not for the models :0 but I am starting to worry that AFG thinks they are smarter than they are.
They really cant help themselves infusing MCP elements into all their games....(scoreboard, static objective locations. etc)
They killed my two favorite games and are turning the last game I like of their’s into the one game that got them going. I’m out. I love Star Wars but this is ridiculous. If I want to play MCP I’d play that, you can’t force me to do it.
I’m so glad Old World came out. I guess I’m going back to GW.
But is that a bad thing tho?
@@alejandrovigil9696 Read my response. If you like that change it may not be. But the company is putting all its eggs in one basket and it drives people like me away. I’m not interested in MCP or Shatterpoint. So when they killed X-Wing and Armada and now making Legion more like the other games I’m just done with the company. You may be more interested in the game but you’re not the only one who plays these games. We all like something different so when you make things all the same for convenience it only works for a small percentage of people. Glad it works for you, but this was the last straw for me. I’m done with the company and taking my money to a game that appeals to me.
Sameness is not a good thing when you are supposed to be presenting different products. So it’s not a good thing for me. And it will cost them some customers, but it may convince you to buy more of their products. Which is more profitable I can’t say.
@@alejandrovigil9696 guess it depends on who you ask. Me personally, who’s played MCP and Shatterpoint I’m getting pretty tired of seeing it
@@chewieknievel8439 I will never play Shatter Point again and I don't want Legion to be MCP
I appreciate it’s a rework and many people are excited for that. I’m happy for you all.
But I didn’t want any of this. The game is not remotely resembling Legion I signed up for years ago. I don’t know what game this is, but it’s not the one I want to play anymore.
It’s frustrating they forced all units to have cover basically always and then justified changing the cover entirely as a result. “We broke it and we didn’t like how broken it was so we decided to change it entirely”.
Disappointing
I can't disagree with that. I do like the changes to the corp units though.
Things evolve and you’re not forced to keep playing if you don’t like it anymore
Start a 1.0 group. I would love to play the version of legion from Dec 2022 again. I really liked where it was there.
I appreciate the vibe of cautious optimism. It's a beloved game by many, and I hope that communities continue to thrive. I know that if someone asked to play "1.0" with me, I'd be more than happy, but I'm excited to try these new rules, too.
I like most of the unit updates, but open transport was one of my favorite mechanics, so I will miss that.
I feel for you, when xwing 2.0 became 2.5 it was quite a shock especially as a playtester. We weren't involved until after the announcement.
I'm definitely going to give the new rules a few goes before passing judgement.
The only thing I absolutely hate up-front is the new Transport rule, which doesn't make logical sense and effectively removes the concept of transports from the game past turn 1.
Biggest gripe as well. It’s an extremely lazy design choice. Why play the transport units but with less fun/function?
That and removing displacement seems so silly...
Between being burned by X-Wing 2.0 and really seeing the hands on the wheel making me buy more stuff to pay down a debt they were saddled with, I’m having a lot of trouble seeing positives. I’m not loving a lot of the changes.
None of this is in response to the Embracer debt. These changes have been in the works for years. Any TT game needs to find a way to get existing customers to purchase more, and this is the best way to do this. Existing players likely have 1 faction they can take to 1000 points right now, but in order to optimize they’ll need to buy more product. A rule refresh attracts the attention of new players.
Grevious is down to 130p, he got Entourage:Magna Guards and Immune: Pierce.
He has pistol and sabers already in his profile and got equipment slot instead of pistol. Oh boy I am excited to try him out!
He lost arsenal but improved a lot
He lost arsenal 2 I think. But all of droids are way better.
@@funTimesInTheSun why is that?
@@funTimesInTheSun his trophy sabers are now all dices in one weapon profile
Losing arsenal is unfortunate. He can't go into melee, swing his saber and shoot out for a dodge off Up Close. I think you still play UCaP though.
*rope around the neck of X-wing and Armada, grinning* First time?
AMG learned from the X-wing failed edition. They won't call it a new edition because they saw how badly it went when they tried a .5 change, and they saw how bad it went when FFG did 2.0. but like before they changed so much that really you're probably right to call it a new edition despite their statement. Don't be afraid to walk away and just use the old rules. You could even have a Legacy project like Armada and X-wing.
I still pull out my armada and Impearl assault so even if kill Legion I still play it with my group.
Im not pissed that they made a new edition (because thats what it is), im mad that they did it overnight without any prior announcements and it feels half baked. We have to use some new and some old cards now which is unproffesional.
AMG stands for Amateur Miniature Games
They said they have been working on it for 3 years but it was a secret
@@jrod5113That's BS. They wouldn't have tried changing cover last year if that was the case.
@@Zeromus5555 Yeah I don't believe them either but that's what they said on the reveal on day 1
Card packs are coming later this year according to the AMG UA-cam channel presentation.
Yes, the rule changes are to make more money by requiring you to have more or different units. There is no other reason. Will this be better or will this be worse, time will tell. If the community accepts the changes, it will be great, if not, it will go the way of X-Wing and Armada. I suspect the cost to acquire some of the packs of units will also be higher as that is how AMG does things.
I get it, they are in the business to make money, but this is usually what prevents new players to enter the game -- increasing the cost to entry.
I do feel that there are some changes that mirror the design philosophy that AMG took with Xwing 2.5 which does not give me good feels and I hope they have learnt from the handling of that game to be better with Legion and do it justice in the long run.
Really wish they would just come out and say they are doing a new edition. Relaunch the core box and go from there... but I suspect that will come at some point.
As far as I know, they still have singular trooper upgrades. But you can opt to double them via the squad upgrade.
I am excited by these changes.
yes you can but we see how the game goes fills after these changes
I love that it's 1,000 points.
You got the cover rules wrong. It’s a whole roll. You roll one per hit in the pool. And if it’s light cover you cancel a hit for every block and for heavy you cancel for every block and surge. Dodges still work the same but you apply them after the cover roll. For low pro it’s not just extra layer of cover. You just get an automatic block for one of your dice if you roll for cover. It’s interested. Idk how I feel about it yet
I wish they just committed to a 2nd edition. As it stands, they are half-assing it.
Like they did with X-Wing.
@@Chozo_hybrid I agree with the original comment. What you’re referring to is likely 2.5, not 2.0. The 2.0 release was actually pretty good in that it fixed a lot of the problems with 1.0. But then they just didn’t commit to it and that’s what led to 2.5, which failed.
Is sharpshooter still a thing? I assume low profile would give up to 3 blocks. This makes white defense dice way worse though, because without heavy cover you are pretty much taking the hits.
Wow, that’s a whole lot of changes for not being a new edition of the game. I didn‘t catch all the details. Some things seem to be good, like the e-web range increase. Some things seem to be odd, like nerfing the Clones once again. (Never mind the Experimental Droids!) But what really concerns me is reducing the game to 5 rounds. And because you deploy your army during round 1 it seems to me, that you actually only play 4 rounds. I‘m really not sure if it is the right way to go having bigger armies doing less activations?
As im reading it the cover rules arent capped at 2 saves for heavy. If when rolling the white cover dice you roll 5 blocks vs 6 hits the unit is then only taking 1 save on itself
Dont forget since this is determining effectivness of cover it has no bearing on criticals.
ya I have not read all the rules yet but the cover will be something to take deeper dive into
They're going to have unit expansions box for core units
Thx for your initial thoughts. Quik tip: if you could look at the camera your vids would be more engaging. I really agree it looks like a very interesting time to play swl and I too have to rethink my lists. Tuans may be back w/ new withdraw rule 😃
Thanks, I will look better place for my camera I appreacate the feedback
I kinda wanna just ignore all these new rules and pretend I never heard about this announcement
Yeah it’s just change for the sake of it
I just don't understand why they did this.
I am with you, I'm just going to keep playing. I'm going to ignore this and hope others do as well.
@@Dankergold I'd argue the unit balancing looks promising certainly for older units, but this is also a change that basically demands you buy more models, so this is a business motivated decision also.
I like to stick my head in the sand as well
I’m excited to see how this plays. Trying to schedule some practice games this weekend.
Edit: also, the corps upgrades are in addition to the existing single guy upgrade iirc. So you can choose to add one or five for example
yes but I feel like maybe too many guys and it is more about selling plastic
@@LEGIONOUTPOST idk too many is a bit subjective. They seem to want this to be their war game proper, and this seems like a good way to do it.
Sure this is to make money, they’re a business. But they are trying to make the game better too.
@@Ignatiusofantioch87 maybe but only time will tell if it is better or not I still have to get the game in with the new rules and see if it is better or just a reworking of the game that was Good
We can use the old rules
Is there anywhere one can find the old rules documents?
ffg had it
Yes because the game is no longer the FFG version. So it is in fact a new edition. I'm very happy I sold my collection after the first AMG changes.
So wait does that mean if we move on and it says we make a move do we get to do an action after ??
I really like a lot of these changes. Very optimistic about the battle orders specifically. Nothing here is as egregious as the LOS rules they changed with the CRB. If your still playing after that change this is gonna be fine.
The LoS rules in the CRB are awful. And these rules try to mitigate its affect on the game by lessening its potency. We’ll see how it plays out I guess. Kinda wish they would have admitted they were wrong and reverted the LoS to the original with this refresh.
@@shadowsfromlight I totally agree that the CRB LoS rules are terrible.
I am excited to try the new rules, I think that only getting cover from terrain at 3 inches might work very well. We will have to see.
@@lukemayhew7113 we will see
I agree. It doesn't seem to be a "for the people" change. They really boosted a lot of the units for good but now theres no way for those buffs to be used to help in the old objectives. Im willing to play it out tho
This will pretty end me playing legion I just can’t be bothered printing cards I’m old school I like to buy things and have a physical rulebook. They should have waited to release this as a new core set with card packs to update your faction. Amg are absolutely terrible at managing games this is probably the end of legion it’s half arsed and unnecessary
They are great at managing their own games. Terrible at managing a game they were forced to take on.
Heyo, just a heads up you had a slight mistake in the new cover rules. If you have heavy cover and defend against 5 dice, you roll 5 cover saves with surge:block. If you make 3 saves, you cancel 3 hits. There is not limit against how many hits cover can block, light and heavy cover just change the probability of you making a cover save.
ya I had not looked at the rules at the point I was just responding to what I thought I heard but thanks I will be taking a deeper dive into it and doing a more in-depth look and some play testing before get too much into it
They still have personnel cards my dude. The squad cards are just an additional option
I personally dislike all the things they have done… the graphical design change is a big gripe.
AMG has never made a good change. The only thing I liked about them was when they left Armada alone and didn’t touch it
Instead of being mad at AMG, for changing the game to be more in line with their skill sets and passions, maybe fans should be mad at FFG for letting Alex Davies leave to begin with and their structural changes.
AMG seems to have made a lot of great desicions with these changes. I doubt it brings back people who have left legion to shatterpoint but new people might join... Or the game will doe so AMG can tocus on shatterpoint.
I am not mad At AMG I'm just not sure How it will turn out I will know more when I play it but this is not the same game it major changes
My view is they wrecked the game with the last major changes to cover and slowly stripping back the usefuleness of force users, however I am pleased with teh unit refreshes, maybe I can just deal with the abstract cover systems now and see if things are a bit more fun and balanced.
With the changes to deflect not needing a dodge token to be used and becoming cheaper overall It looks to be better for force users. Something needed to happen to Force Push as it was an auto-include for almost every force user that had Mastery of the the Force.
@@ThePatientHunter with 1,000 points you can still include it.
As someone who has had interest in legion but has had issues with the gameplay in my few games of legion, I like the sound of these changes. Seems like cover will mean more now. Degraded units aren't useless anymore. The objectives aren't all or nothing making the first few turns not matter, now it's a dynamic fight. I like how both players influence the starting fight more. And as someone who wants to play gar, I'm hoping the gar changes help the faction be more competitive
Not for me, now the missions are all basically the same, take and hold. In 1st edition there was such a variety of missions to play that every game was fresh.
This feels a lot like x wing...I hope this game doesn't fall the same way
yup, But It's not the same game I hope I like it but if I don't I keep playing Legion 1.0 and without the crappy cover rules
You said the cover wrong. Its if they roll 5 hits. You roll 5 cover dice and they can block all 5 if they roll blocks
thanks
You lost credibility when you said it was unveiled by FFG. Atomic Mass Games has the reigns now not FFG
thanks
LAAT still seems weak.
transport are all lame now
@@LEGIONOUTPOST All vehicles got another nerf with this update and they didn't drop even points to off set it.
@@funTimesInTheSun no cover that sucks
This is 100% a completely different game, AMG legion looks like shit. Changes literally almost every single aspect and says it’s not a new edition. Missions and secondary’s like Warhammer, legion was loved because it was different from other war games.
The cards look like shit, AMG is ruining legion just like Disney ruined Star Wars.
They flat out fucking lied about it not being a new edition… what else do we need.
Shatter point sucks too lol
agree
Love the changes but not calling this 2.0 is definitely hilarious.
I don’t think it’s a 2.0 only because “editions” don’t really make sense in 2024. The only wargaming company that holds onto that old world is games workshop. I like the change and think they make a more tactical game. I think the larger community is over reacting
I think it's turned every game into the same. Pretty much only take and hold missions, losing the variety we once had for a static repetitive option.
The rules feel so much nicer, im not sure why everyones so worried about the new cover being complicated its just all white dice with no modification per wound it takes all of 5 seconds, it makes the game much more pleasant because its not just republic gunline digging into barricades.
i think changes is just hard