I honestly think increased squad size should be a droid army thing. This would really set them apart from other forces and makes the most sense for them. A bit concerned about transport because I bought LAAT/LE for my clones.
When they made their X-wing edition, I got the same vibes about why the changes were made that you're seeing in legion. A lot of it was like you could tell someone showed them a single weird troll move that never did that well and they got so hurt by it they changed a bunch of stuff to stamp it out. But then as we know, no change exists in a vacuum, so they had to change other stuff, to cover for the first change stuff, that then needed other things changed because the first two changes, and then it's a downward spiral to the whole thing is different.
I have collected the models for the game for a few years without actually playing, im keen to see what happens with the new rules i think some changes to try extend the life of the game
Everyone's a doomer. Play the update. Try it out. Then, we can judge the quality of the change. Worst case scenario, people can still use the old rules.
I understand that. But if you want to use new units with the old rules that will be problematic, partly with the fact many of keywords have changed giving the units a different intended function. Additionally if you buy the new units you will have to contend with having two different styles and sizes of cards in your collection which is awkward.
Something that keeps wargames like this alive is the competitive scene, which will use the new rules. If you kill the game for players on that level the game tends to fade away, but not always. We shall see if they embrace it…
I do agree however who tf tested the CIS? Like my friends hate that I bring 10 activations to the board and now I can comfortably bring Kalani and Grievous plus alot more those are the 2 best commanders for the CIS in my opinion but I will have to play and see also ai is now not as limiting as it once was.
I switched to Malifaux 4 years ago, Legion cover rules makes no sense. In Malifaux you have a height stat. If your model is the same height or smaller than the cover you have it. The cover applies to a range equal to its height up to a maximum of 3 inch. Simple dimple. Hard Cover guives you a bonus to defence and reduces the damage output of the enemy. Soft cover gives the opponent a penalty to hit only
Personally staying open minded till I get some reps under the new rules. However I do agree that the new static deployments/objectives instantly gave me MCP and SP vibes...neither of which I like.
My first impressions actually getting into the cards a bit as I trimmed them last night; coupled with a little reading, and my suspicion is that, yes, some of what they did was to improve the game… but I feel like this was largely done to create a need sell more minis… maybe to have a more profitable business plan for their loan approval to cover the Asmodee debt dump? Looking things over, I think I’ll still enjoy it. Personally, for a game that has a living rule set… I’d rather see incremental changes over sweeping changes. I just feel like that’s the only real way to provide a stable yet balanced game. I feel like this ruleset will introduce at least two years of balance changes.
If they supported the original card design with each release that would be helpful- but I highly doubt it. And have they also not removed some cards/upgrades outright e.g. force lift? I think if people put enough constructive feedback toward AMG there may be (all be it most likely not) small chance they make amendments. Really the only changes I think they should have made to the game were: - Increase points to 1000 - Release a “large unit” card pack, allowing you to make units up to 11 or so members. -Announce new cool units The fact they have gone and gutted the missions, keywords, unit/upgrade cards, cover, deployment is touching things that had no desperate need to be changed.
The new rules seem to fix complicated ones and go for playability. But these rules also take away the realistic way things go on battlefield. I like living the game. Try and play the update isn’t that easy. I need to print cards and stuff. I am worried about the costs this update will bring. Omg AMG…
This video is 100% accurate. Great job!!!!! I checked out of legion the day after they announced the changes. It’s sad because I loved the game! But this is not the game I loved. So maybe I’ll play a little bit but I’m definitely not buying anything else.
Bro keeps saying he’s saving his reservations and then says he doesn’t like changes. “Heroes mean less” is one heck of a phrase when so many of them got amazing updates to increase their longevity- the +4 health take would be a pretty cool thing to see though. If you get charged by a giant fleet trooper unit with no dead models you maybe deserve it (I tried using the large b1 unit with a heavy and they died round 2
I have to agree, it looks like they are taking everything and trying to make it like what they developed in MCP. Since they killed X-wing, I wanted to get into Legion but now from what I'm hearing with these changes, I don't know if I want to anymore. Is AMG killing all of Star Wars?
I've read the rules three times now and I'm going to play a few games before I go away for my holidays. After playing, I'll make a video with my review. It looks like it could be fun, but it's a new game.
I agree with alot of what has been said and the comments. Alot of the changes really feel unnecessary and pointless. Transport.. dead Rebel veterans And shore troopers speed 1 Fleet troopers have charge because we all watched them charge enemies in the movies right?? Like amg really did make this game something completely different they should have just done something like make a star wars epic game like 40k and leave legion alone This is awful
Because they got no flack for shatterpoint? They got bombarded with people claiming shatterpoint was going to be the death of legion, and they are incredibly different games. How do you think that the community would have reacted when they announced a new army scale game?
I am excited about the new reskins of Vader, Stormtroopers, Rebel Commando's, Rebel Troopers and Scout Troopers. Plus Clone Wars Ahsoka. On the other hand, the new changes do seem concerning. Hopefully in gameplay the experience is authentic to a ground war.
I feel like alot of changes the made reduces the bloat from the old rules. As someone who has played alot of miniature I feel like the old rules only rewarded gotcha mechanics (especially at turnoments). Also I think the reducing to 5 turns makes since, most games feel so dragged on at turn 6. As someone who didn't care for legion in 2024 I'm excited at trying this new balance and as someone who plays other amg games I trust them to make a fun game.
Legion has become a swarm game. No strategy needed everything can be overwhelmed with basic core even armored units. Dark troopers have lost there thematics when you have 20 dices and only 3 can be negated, because they can't take cover
The changes are a big result of AMG taking on the debt from Asmodee who took it from the Embracer group after "breaking" off from them. Basically they changed the rules to make the game swingier, quicker and relying on more models. All actions makes you buy more product.
The fact that every faction got like half their units reworked but shadow collective only got one unit changed only because the armor rules changed shows AMG doesn’t care at all about mercs
Guess I’m never getting my wish of Jango Fett joining legion. Even if they release him, it will be with all the new art/cards (Which I don’t like) and rules. Time to 3D print & customize everything and I’ll probably never buy anything from AMG. There’s no need to. SWL 1.0 atw Awesome video btw
It’s almost too much to type and I don’t even know where to begin.. Legion was loved due to the difference from current miniature war games. They stole missions from MCP shatterpoint and 40K, secondary’s from 40K and first turn March onto the board like bolt action. Bolt action has gotten good reviews from what I’ve seen so I’m sure first turn will turn out okay. I detest 40K missions/secondary’s I loved the unique bid system legion had, just freaking make new missions/deployments and such AMG!!!! WTF!!!! Unique system to boring as fuck system. New models look AMAZING, 11/10. I don’t mind the increased core sizes, I love bringing tons of storm troops or rebels but that’s me. New cards look terrible, blank white background with 2-5 keywords.. looks so bland and shity. 5 different fonts lol. Numbers inside the dice.. come on. I like the weapon sections on the bottom though. They lied, flat out lied about it being a new addition. In their eyes this is their first edition of the game so I get their stupid thought process Transport is dead but probably not because the way your units come onto the board first turn. They fucked up, games bones was great. Hero’s maybe they can have a keyword for every save failed the unit takes 2 wounds for vaders saber attacks I dunno. I was super hyped for legion, now it’s flat… this reminds me of 40K with missions secondary’s and I hate them. Unless they play tested faction specific secondaries which would be super thematic for your faction. I’m okay with that but the same fucking secondaries by both players… BORING!!!!
I absolutely hate the new rules set :( With 20+ years of wargaming experience, I can read between the lines quite well to know how the play is going to shake out in practice, and there is just not enough time and damage with objectives being scored mid-map to actually shoot at each other viably, plus the game is too short, and the streamlining only added randomness (which they trying to brainwash us saying its a good thing), the objective scoring makes this a worse 40k game, the deploying makes it a worse bolt action game. Im sure the people on their balance and design team dont actually play the game seriously (as in approach it competitively at all). This is likely a case of incompetent morons (sorry) who are inventing design problems and solutions just to look like theyre doing a job. Its changing things for the sake of changing things. They are balancing the wrong things - such as speeders, which actually had a disadvantage on missions like breakthrough, because being defensive and playing for 0:0 all but secured the win unless it was hemmed in or something similar. Im so fucking sad, this was the last bastion of star wars fandom I felt comfortable in. Ive been watching the films since I was 5 every day, I never thought the day would happen when I would think star wars sucked :(
AMG ruins everything.. im done with Star Wars games man... I gave the new FFG tcg a go, but sold out near the end of set 1 because they couldnt keep the game in stock and I knew set 2 would be no different and its turned out i was right. At least i made money on the cards. I bought into MCP because shatterpoint looked like crap and it looks more interesting to paint. Hopefully they dont do Legion like they did xwing... thats another game i sold out of.
So many doomers. I’m actually looking forward to trying this out, I don’t love every change but I’m still optimistic. New editions and rules always bring in new players, as someone who played when the game first came out and fell off over the years this reignited my interest in a game I haven’t played in years. Plus it could be worse, gw complete rewrites their games every 3 years just to sell models and books
@@t.r.stoneproductions1697 I guess I just don’t understand what you were doing with the aa5 before… once you dropped off the unit you were transporting (3 turns max unless you’re playing it very very very conservatively) it was still just a wall that stood there and shot things… just now your big expensive toy gets to actually play the game outside of those first few turns
@@2121Sloth That was my initial thought after reading the rules, but I said that and held my option until get a few games in. I played hundreds of games of the old rules since day one
I honestly think increased squad size should be a droid army thing.
This would really set them apart from other forces and makes the most sense for them.
A bit concerned about transport because I bought LAAT/LE for my clones.
When they made their X-wing edition, I got the same vibes about why the changes were made that you're seeing in legion. A lot of it was like you could tell someone showed them a single weird troll move that never did that well and they got so hurt by it they changed a bunch of stuff to stamp it out. But then as we know, no change exists in a vacuum, so they had to change other stuff, to cover for the first change stuff, that then needed other things changed because the first two changes, and then it's a downward spiral to the whole thing is different.
AMG ruined X-Wing. They never understood it. Unfortunately looks like Legion is next.
Nailed it here. AMG has never understood legion especially after since they fired Luke Eddy in July 2021!
I have collected the models for the game for a few years without actually playing, im keen to see what happens with the new rules i think some changes to try extend the life of the game
Everyone's a doomer. Play the update. Try it out. Then, we can judge the quality of the change. Worst case scenario, people can still use the old rules.
I understand that. But if you want to use new units with the old rules that will be problematic, partly with the fact many of keywords have changed giving the units a different intended function. Additionally if you buy the new units you will have to contend with having two different styles and sizes of cards in your collection which is awkward.
Something that keeps wargames like this alive is the competitive scene, which will use the new rules.
If you kill the game for players on that level the game tends to fade away, but not always. We shall see if they embrace it…
I do agree however who tf tested the CIS? Like my friends hate that I bring 10 activations to the board and now I can comfortably bring Kalani and Grievous plus alot more those are the 2 best commanders for the CIS in my opinion but I will have to play and see also ai is now not as limiting as it once was.
People in hobbies like this are just averse to change 🤷
Nothing doomer about the fact that my speeder truck is just a moving wall with a gun after turn 1 now.
I switched to Malifaux 4 years ago, Legion cover rules makes no sense. In Malifaux you have a height stat. If your model is the same height or smaller than the cover you have it. The cover applies to a range equal to its height up to a maximum of 3 inch. Simple dimple.
Hard Cover guives you a bonus to defence and reduces the damage output of the enemy.
Soft cover gives the opponent a penalty to hit only
Personally staying open minded till I get some reps under the new rules. However I do agree that the new static deployments/objectives instantly gave me MCP and SP vibes...neither of which I like.
Everything aside, why tf do fleet troopers have charge 😂. Like nothing about them is remotely related to them being a melee unit
so true they stood there ground or ran but never towards the enemy
Yup.. even Steady would've made more sense (since they've got Range2)
My first impressions actually getting into the cards a bit as I trimmed them last night; coupled with a little reading, and my suspicion is that, yes, some of what they did was to improve the game… but I feel like this was largely done to create a need sell more minis… maybe to have a more profitable business plan for their loan approval to cover the Asmodee debt dump?
Looking things over, I think I’ll still enjoy it. Personally, for a game that has a living rule set… I’d rather see incremental changes over sweeping changes. I just feel like that’s the only real way to provide a stable yet balanced game. I feel like this ruleset will introduce at least two years of balance changes.
If they supported the original card design with each release that would be helpful- but I highly doubt it.
And have they also not removed some cards/upgrades outright e.g. force lift?
I think if people put enough constructive feedback toward AMG there may be (all be it most likely not) small chance they make amendments.
Really the only changes I think they should have made to the game were:
- Increase points to 1000
- Release a “large unit” card pack, allowing you to make units up to 11 or so members.
-Announce new cool units
The fact they have gone and gutted the missions, keywords, unit/upgrade cards, cover, deployment is touching things that had no desperate need to be changed.
The new rules seem to fix complicated ones and go for playability. But these rules also take away the realistic way things go on battlefield. I like living the game. Try and play the update isn’t that easy. I need to print cards and stuff. I am worried about the costs this update will bring. Omg AMG…
This video is 100% accurate. Great job!!!!!
I checked out of legion the day after they announced the changes.
It’s sad because I loved the game! But this is not the game I loved. So maybe I’ll play a little bit but I’m definitely not buying anything else.
I feel your pain I am going to give it a go but This is not legion
Bro keeps saying he’s saving his reservations and then says he doesn’t like changes. “Heroes mean less” is one heck of a phrase when so many of them got amazing updates to increase their longevity- the +4 health take would be a pretty cool thing to see though. If you get charged by a giant fleet trooper unit with no dead models you maybe deserve it (I tried using the large b1 unit with a heavy and they died round 2
I think you should try star wars chain of command.
Too Fat Lardies are a company you can really get behind.
I have to agree, it looks like they are taking everything and trying to make it like what they developed in MCP. Since they killed X-wing, I wanted to get into Legion but now from what I'm hearing with these changes, I don't know if I want to anymore. Is AMG killing all of Star Wars?
I've read the rules three times now and I'm going to play a few games before I go away for my holidays. After playing, I'll make a video with my review. It looks like it could be fun, but it's a new game.
I agree with alot of what has been said and the comments.
Alot of the changes really feel unnecessary and pointless.
Transport.. dead
Rebel veterans
And shore troopers speed 1
Fleet troopers have charge because we all watched them charge enemies in the movies right??
Like amg really did make this game something completely different they should have just done something like make a star wars epic game like 40k and leave legion alone
This is awful
Because they got no flack for shatterpoint? They got bombarded with people claiming shatterpoint was going to be the death of legion, and they are incredibly different games. How do you think that the community would have reacted when they announced a new army scale game?
I think they are trying to make it an AMG game, not a Star Wars war game. It is all about comicbook styles and area control.
AMG making an AMG game? Shocker.
At this rate I will never understand cover rules
oh just as you do they will change them again
I am excited about the new reskins of Vader, Stormtroopers, Rebel Commando's, Rebel Troopers and Scout Troopers. Plus Clone Wars Ahsoka. On the other hand, the new changes do seem concerning. Hopefully in gameplay the experience is authentic to a ground war.
Starwarshammer Shatter40K
AMG hate vehicles. instead of more vehicles, they introduced mounts.. MOUNTS...
I feel like alot of changes the made reduces the bloat from the old rules. As someone who has played alot of miniature I feel like the old rules only rewarded gotcha mechanics (especially at turnoments). Also I think the reducing to 5 turns makes since, most games feel so dragged on at turn 6. As someone who didn't care for legion in 2024 I'm excited at trying this new balance and as someone who plays other amg games I trust them to make a fun game.
What does AMG mean??
it the makers of the game
Legion has become a swarm game. No strategy needed everything can be overwhelmed with basic core even armored units. Dark troopers have lost there thematics when you have 20 dices and only 3 can be negated, because they can't take cover
The changes are a big result of AMG taking on the debt from Asmodee who took it from the Embracer group after "breaking" off from them.
Basically they changed the rules to make the game swingier, quicker and relying on more models. All actions makes you buy more product.
We're all going to look back at this as The Day Legion Died.
The fact that every faction got like half their units reworked but shadow collective only got one unit changed only because the armor rules changed shows AMG doesn’t care at all about mercs
true so true but sure they will get reworked in next year's total remake
Its not an online game.. play it however the heck you want. my son and I play together it wont affect us haha
Guess I’m never getting my wish of Jango Fett joining legion. Even if they release him, it will be with all the new art/cards (Which I don’t like) and rules.
Time to 3D print & customize everything and I’ll probably never buy anything from AMG. There’s no need to. SWL 1.0 atw
Awesome video btw
It’s almost too much to type and I don’t even know where to begin..
Legion was loved due to the difference from current miniature war games.
They stole missions from MCP shatterpoint and 40K, secondary’s from 40K and first turn March onto the board like bolt action.
Bolt action has gotten good reviews from what I’ve seen so I’m sure first turn will turn out okay.
I detest 40K missions/secondary’s
I loved the unique bid system legion had, just freaking make new missions/deployments and such AMG!!!! WTF!!!! Unique system to boring as fuck system.
New models look AMAZING, 11/10. I don’t mind the increased core sizes, I love bringing tons of storm troops or rebels but that’s me.
New cards look terrible, blank white background with 2-5 keywords.. looks so bland and shity. 5 different fonts lol. Numbers inside the dice.. come on. I like the weapon sections on the bottom though.
They lied, flat out lied about it being a new addition. In their eyes this is their first edition of the game so I get their stupid thought process
Transport is dead but probably not because the way your units come onto the board first turn.
They fucked up, games bones was great.
Hero’s maybe they can have a keyword for every save failed the unit takes 2 wounds for vaders saber attacks I dunno.
I was super hyped for legion, now it’s flat… this reminds me of 40K with missions secondary’s and I hate them. Unless they play tested faction specific secondaries which would be super thematic for your faction. I’m okay with that but the same fucking secondaries by both players… BORING!!!!
I will wait until play the game but I can not say that I am not worried about a lot of what you are saying
I absolutely hate the new rules set :( With 20+ years of wargaming experience, I can read between the lines quite well to know how the play is going to shake out in practice, and there is just not enough time and damage with objectives being scored mid-map to actually shoot at each other viably, plus the game is too short, and the streamlining only added randomness (which they trying to brainwash us saying its a good thing), the objective scoring makes this a worse 40k game, the deploying makes it a worse bolt action game.
Im sure the people on their balance and design team dont actually play the game seriously (as in approach it competitively at all). This is likely a case of incompetent morons (sorry) who are inventing design problems and solutions just to look like theyre doing a job. Its changing things for the sake of changing things. They are balancing the wrong things - such as speeders, which actually had a disadvantage on missions like breakthrough, because being defensive and playing for 0:0 all but secured the win unless it was hemmed in or something similar. Im so fucking sad, this was the last bastion of star wars fandom I felt comfortable in. Ive been watching the films since I was 5 every day, I never thought the day would happen when I would think star wars sucked :(
So much doom and gloom it’s insane, go play some games, it looks and sounds really fun.
Amg ruins everything they touch. Cant wait for Lucasfilms to pull the license and give to a competent studio.
AMG ruins everything.. im done with Star Wars games man... I gave the new FFG tcg a go, but sold out near the end of set 1 because they couldnt keep the game in stock and I knew set 2 would be no different and its turned out i was right. At least i made money on the cards. I bought into MCP because shatterpoint looked like crap and it looks more interesting to paint. Hopefully they dont do Legion like they did xwing... thats another game i sold out of.
I have a whole shelf dead game but keep playing and will play version one of Legion
So many doomers. I’m actually looking forward to trying this out, I don’t love every change but I’m still optimistic. New editions and rules always bring in new players, as someone who played when the game first came out and fell off over the years this reignited my interest in a game I haven’t played in years. Plus it could be worse, gw complete rewrites their games every 3 years just to sell models and books
Nothing doomer about the fact that my speeder truck is just a moving wall with a gun after turn 1 now.
@@t.r.stoneproductions1697 a moving wall with a gun that can score objectives! That’s amazing!
@@immunetopierce9306 Not what I bought it for. It’s a vehicle. It should do vehicle things.
@@immunetopierce9306 and “oh well no one can do vehicle things now!” Is a dumb argument.
@@t.r.stoneproductions1697 I guess I just don’t understand what you were doing with the aa5 before… once you dropped off the unit you were transporting (3 turns max unless you’re playing it very very very conservatively) it was still just a wall that stood there and shot things… just now your big expensive toy gets to actually play the game outside of those first few turns
Don't make a video about something you haven't been playing. 😂
@@2121Sloth That was my initial thought after reading the rules, but I said that and held my option until get a few games in. I played hundreds of games of the old rules since day one
I'm just going to call it now, they have killed the rebel faction, and made clones and droids more op