I mean, I think the only real way to stop it right now is to ban Underground Starts from multiplayer games, and to use the minimal/no underground realm trait. That said, I'm pretty sure an Arcane culture with Relentless Swarmers and Mana Addicts, starting with Tome of the Horde can get three stacks of Battlemages strong enough, early enough that they can basically nuke anything the AI can throw at you. It's hilariously strong.
The problem with that is, even if you can be attacked on the surface, with such a massive research, gold/mana, and experience advantage, its going to be very hard to crack a defensive line. Even if another player can roll up with 3+ stacks of T3 units which, at turn 29 I feel is pretty unlikely, they are going to have to fight past fully buffed stacks of T3 units, plus the multiple T5s that you can summon for cheap once the Age of X spell is cast. On top of that, the heroes have so much exp from fighting that they'll likely be several levels ahead.
@@breakingthestream5732 First of all, I absolutely agree that the skill needs to be limited to cities owned/vassalized by your opponents, and not apply to cities you released into vassalage. That said, this exploit relies heavily on being pretty isolated from your opponents and the general passivity of the AI. Unless the distance between players is set to Far (or you have an underground start) human players are going to be rolling up on turn 7-12, in my limited experience. Once they see what you're doing, they're going to bum rush you. A lot. If it's an FFA, you're going to be ganged up on. If it's 1v1, you're going to be rushed, since the build is pretty telegraphed.
The "True" fix would be introducing diminishing returns. If you conquer a city and it loses 1 pop due to collateral damage, then the normal game is practically the same while this exploit grinds to a halt. Or, more specifically, is burnt to the ground.
That would do the trick, but the changes they are implementing with the free Wyvern update effectively address all points. Requiring 5 turns between declaring war against a vassal will grind this to a halt - it will take longer between conquests but will also mean that in the intervening turns the vassal city will gain population, leading to a much stronger defensive stack. I'm happy its going away personally.
I tried to mimic this but failed to attack so often as the vassal stacks were filled with tier 3 armies at like 900-1k power each turn and I couldnt keep hitting them - is there something I was doing wrong or a map setting that makes the vassals when respawned get super jacked?
Yeah, you let the vassals survive a turn or two. I'm not sure precisely what triggers the increased army values, it is either provinces controlled or pure population of the city. If you keep the vassals at 3 population and no provinces annexed, it will be a weak starting army, nothing but tier 1 and 2s plus a leveled hero based on the turn (21 - level 5, 41 - level 7)
Is spider damage bugged? I agree its very OP, but as far as I'm aware its working as intended. Not sure how a knowledge cap would work, but I'm open to options for fixing this.
Hmm, I'm having a hard time hearing you (and I have everything at 100% - PC volume, YT volume, headphone volume - which would all normally be blasting out my eardrums) EDIT: But otherwise still a great video (and I didn't believe you were cheating - accusers just have no imagination)
Thanks for pointing that out, fixed my mic levels so should be fixed in future videos. Keep an eye out for my next one, think its going to come in a few turns faster.
In my opinion this game is better than plant fall but not better than age of wonder 3 because it feel like they did not put as much effort compared to age of wonder 3 but I know they will put up update cause what they can do is add back in the class machenic
I am hoping that the expansions add in some of the flavor that AOW3 had. I agree that AOW3 was more distinctive, I really liked the variation both between Racial units and Classes. On the other hand, I do like the free form nature of AOW4, just think that leaves it a bit generic.
I was thinking of that, but I think the mana on upkeep is better spent on stronger units. Keep an eye out for more videos, Resimars and I came up with a new tactic that I think is going to shave several turns off this one.
I don't disagree - I would check out the summary video I released on the method, or wait for the new one I am uploading now which has a 40 turn victory.
Love that you called the frog form necros "Frogloks". Brings me back to EQ2
I'll be playing on the latest EQ progression server launching tomorrow, so thought it was appropriate.
I mean, I think the only real way to stop it right now is to ban Underground Starts from multiplayer games, and to use the minimal/no underground realm trait. That said, I'm pretty sure an Arcane culture with Relentless Swarmers and Mana Addicts, starting with Tome of the Horde can get three stacks of Battlemages strong enough, early enough that they can basically nuke anything the AI can throw at you. It's hilariously strong.
The problem with that is, even if you can be attacked on the surface, with such a massive research, gold/mana, and experience advantage, its going to be very hard to crack a defensive line. Even if another player can roll up with 3+ stacks of T3 units which, at turn 29 I feel is pretty unlikely, they are going to have to fight past fully buffed stacks of T3 units, plus the multiple T5s that you can summon for cheap once the Age of X spell is cast. On top of that, the heroes have so much exp from fighting that they'll likely be several levels ahead.
@@breakingthestream5732 First of all, I absolutely agree that the skill needs to be limited to cities owned/vassalized by your opponents, and not apply to cities you released into vassalage. That said, this exploit relies heavily on being pretty isolated from your opponents and the general passivity of the AI. Unless the distance between players is set to Far (or you have an underground start) human players are going to be rolling up on turn 7-12, in my limited experience. Once they see what you're doing, they're going to bum rush you. A lot. If it's an FFA, you're going to be ganged up on. If it's 1v1, you're going to be rushed, since the build is pretty telegraphed.
The "True" fix would be introducing diminishing returns.
If you conquer a city and it loses 1 pop due to collateral damage, then the normal game is practically the same while this exploit grinds to a halt. Or, more specifically, is burnt to the ground.
That would do the trick, but the changes they are implementing with the free Wyvern update effectively address all points. Requiring 5 turns between declaring war against a vassal will grind this to a halt - it will take longer between conquests but will also mean that in the intervening turns the vassal city will gain population, leading to a much stronger defensive stack. I'm happy its going away personally.
I tried to mimic this but failed to attack so often as the vassal stacks were filled with tier 3 armies at like 900-1k power each turn and I couldnt keep hitting them - is there something I was doing wrong or a map setting that makes the vassals when respawned get super jacked?
Yeah, you let the vassals survive a turn or two. I'm not sure precisely what triggers the increased army values, it is either provinces controlled or pure population of the city. If you keep the vassals at 3 population and no provinces annexed, it will be a weak starting army, nothing but tier 1 and 2s plus a leveled hero based on the turn (21 - level 5, 41 - level 7)
@@breakingthestream5732 makes sense!
For some reason the video is in 480p and I can't seem to change it. Kinda hard to see whats going on
I was confused to, I believe it was still processing the HD. The video appears to be 4k
Believe Viego was correct, I accidentally released this before the 4k processing had finished. Looks to be fixed now.
We should start a speed running category 😂
I thought of a few new ideas since my last run, going to aim for a new low turn count now.
yeah this exploit is far too easy, but once they patch the spider dmg bug and cap the knowledge gain I don't think it will be much of an issue.
Is spider damage bugged? I agree its very OP, but as far as I'm aware its working as intended. Not sure how a knowledge cap would work, but I'm open to options for fixing this.
@@breakingthestream5732 Killing a hero will give straight 150 Knowledge, instead of 50x hero lvl knowledge.
Hmm, I'm having a hard time hearing you (and I have everything at 100% - PC volume, YT volume, headphone volume - which would all normally be blasting out my eardrums)
EDIT: But otherwise still a great video (and I didn't believe you were cheating - accusers just have no imagination)
Thanks for pointing that out, fixed my mic levels so should be fixed in future videos. Keep an eye out for my next one, think its going to come in a few turns faster.
In my opinion this game is better than plant fall but not better than age of wonder 3 because it feel like they did not put as much effort compared to age of wonder 3 but I know they will put up update cause what they can do is add back in the class machenic
I am hoping that the expansions add in some of the flavor that AOW3 had. I agree that AOW3 was more distinctive, I really liked the variation both between Racial units and Classes. On the other hand, I do like the free form nature of AOW4, just think that leaves it a bit generic.
Maybe think about tuning you audio settings - stopped watching after 30 seconds because it was so soft
Thanks for pointing this out, looks like my mic levels got reset - should be fixed going forward.
if you found a good way to use the souls you might be able to shave a turn or two off lol but damn dude nice game
I was thinking of that, but I think the mana on upkeep is better spent on stronger units. Keep an eye out for more videos, Resimars and I came up with a new tactic that I think is going to shave several turns off this one.
Super boring....
I don't disagree - I would check out the summary video I released on the method, or wait for the new one I am uploading now which has a 40 turn victory.