I hate when Vaush staggers into my room drunk at three am and starts talking about tankies. I try to pretend I'm sleeping, but I think he can hear me quietly sobbing.
It's pretty telling that'd you'd repeat that Red Ice comic as if to defend yourself (39:20) here. Vaush/Ian is literally siding with that Red Ice comic (15:40).
*at the therapist* he... he would always come home drunk... and started asking for sources... i can't tell how many times i've been given the coconut analogy...
Vowsh was like "I'm gonna get drunk off my ass and talk about complex racial issues in America" and still made more valid points than a sober video essayist
As a member of the Cherokee Nation, as opposed to the Muskogee, Choctaw, Lakota, Inuit, Mohawk, etc. I think I can pretty well confirm that Native American people have pretty significant cultural and governmental distinctions between each other even if we are pretty much all in it together when it comes to dealing with the issues of the past and present of racism. BadMouse is doing the thing where a person of another country thinks they understand a thing there because it’s “just like this thing here.”
It doesn't help that the Britonic tribes coalesced into the modern day British after multiple colonizations by outsiders to the islands. Which kind of undermines his argument about mutual oppression making a singular identity when the singular identity formed out of a mutual relationship between colonizer and colonized, not the unity of the colonized to overthrow their colonizers.
This comment is stupid. BadMouse’s point is that Native Americans exist only as one people insofar as they are minoritized by a colonizing power. Only through their unified experience of being victims of settler coloniality can they exist as a unified political category that struggles against the colonizer, otherwise, they are not of the same people.
"Ask yourself the reason we call people who live in [sic] 'Britain' 'British' rather than say 'Brittonic'" Because British is the English form of the word Brittonic (the Latin form of an older Greek word from a Celtic word), and English is the language we speak; it is the same reason I call people from Germany German, and they call themselves Deutch; we employ different languages. Also, Bad Mouse, walk into a Welsh or Scottish pub with your accent and call them British; there are fair odds you will get punched in the face. "physically don't exist as a concept" Concepts tend not to be physical; the tribes of the British Isles were a political concept that were replaced by national ones
A britbonger trying to talk like an authority on broad sentiments held by Indigenous Americans as a result of their shared experiences whilst completely misrepresenting them and characterizing them as an ethnic and ideological monolith is super cringe.
He needs to take some notes from john oliver. “you think that people want to hear someone talk about colonialism using this accent?!” know your own history before judging others lmaooooo
The fact that Vaush saying "Maybe let's not do segregation" deadass resulted in a two-month long arc. I keep thinking we've hit rock bottom, but it turns out we're going to the center of the earth babeee
You missed the year long arc of black nationalism = white nationalism. He finally got it partially right with black supremacists, how long will it take him to walk back his statements about black separatists.
@@24.7SMOKESHOW I agree, I too can't wait for the Vaush is pro ethnic cleansing arc. It's only a matter of time. If we order our tickets now we can get better seats.
@@wargex he already started when he said the white people in SA apartheid were as innocent as the Jews in Germany and that genocide in Africa was excusable because jobs were hard to come by
@@24.7SMOKESHOW No one said genocide was good, beside Flowers. And yes, random white people in SA are not doing the apartheid. You might as well say you personally (assuming you're American) are doing Native American genocide.
I want to congratulate Badmouse on the worst reference and interpretation of Malcolm X that I have ever seen. Someone needs to tell him that white guilt is unproductive.
He probably thinks the same about Italians. I reckon he’s say “Italians don’t care about their precise heritages, they’re all Italian” He doesn’t understand anything about small cultural groups in any capacity
Scotland might or might not soon leave the kingdom, North Ireland is already slowly leaving it by becoming more economically dependant on Republic of Ireland than Great Britain Yep, no international frictions within UK. They're all happy family
This is why I hate the video essay trend. There are so many of them now. And a lot of them act superior to the "debate bro" culture they despise, while epitomising the arrogant, petulant leftist trope, refusing to engage in any criticism of *their* video which exists entirely to criticise another person. They're so pathetic, honestly.
@@blargh3428 well at least Essay gang puts some effort into it....during the anti-sjw days of yt, most of them would just post rants with picture of their fursona in the video
Because a well made video essay is in a way surperior to the "dabate me bro" content. What I mean with that is that a well made video essay is far more educational, and there's more to gain from watching it, in terms of knowledge. And to some extent it's more civil than a shouting match I guess. Problem is when the video essays are not well made. But no one can deny that video essays from say ContraPoints, KnowingBetter, HbomberGuy, ThreeArrows or fuck it, even Shaun (bad as his twitter takes may be), are really good. Or maybe I'm just biased cause some of their best videos are some of my favorite videos on youtube.
I disagree. You don't have to pick one side or the other, you can like video essays and like "debate bro" stuff. Just two different approaches, and a diversity of approaches is necessary. Some of the greatest left tube content is video essays imo. But there are also plenty of shit video essays
As soon as he started talking about streamer money I started yelling "AZAN HOUSE AZAN HOUSE" and clapping like a seal The internet left has done a number on me.
I hate to be all “identity politics”, but hearing a British person so arrogantly speaking on American politics from the position where nothing they advocate for will affect them either way is annoying as shit
I don't feel like that's the best way to put it, rather that he arrogantly asserts that he knows more about American issues than others, and then later shows that he has no clue what he's talking about and just draws inaccurate, surface-level parallels from British politics to make his points (and then later on shows he doesn't know basic British history that I learned in my world history class, indicating he's not familiar with his own country's dynamics either, which was pretty fucking funny). I mean, the "arrogantly asserting another country's politics" is a stereotype of Americans if anything, we do it quite often as well. Hell, Vaush got in trouble for doing it just last week.
Honestly, as much as you say the whole CP rhetorical looks bad, now that you’ve explicitly explained it like two dozen times, it has done a lot of work for you in terms of distinguishing those with actual critiques of your positions from those coming in bad faith who just want to leech off of mentioning you. It serves as a really effective toe in the water for how seriously you need to take someone’s arguments against you.
Accidentally, the best mistake he could have made. Because yeah, it's kind of a test to see whether someone has actual criticisms or just thinks "Vaush bad, Vaush fat, Vaush p3d0, Vaush lib".
I hate it when Vaush drinks. It always ends wirh him staggering into my room and yelling about how much he hates Marvel movies and how good he is at Bloodborne.
A lot of left-wingers would do well to take a page from the therapists' playbook by recognizing that emotions may be valid, but you don't get to express them any way you want. Oppressed people may have a lot of justifiable and valid anger towards their oppressors and people who remind them of their oppressors, but they still don't get to perpetrate a cathartic genocide.
Oho we're talking therapy metaphors now? Why don't you sit down and think about why your first reaction to "let the colonized overthrow their oppressors" is "me scared of genocide"?
@@thearunrams , that's the initial immature knee-jerk reaction privileged people usually have, yes---but, as allies hopefully learn and mature, they overcome the tendency to assume everything's about them, that everything's a personal criticism, that the oppressed will necessarily treat them as they've treated the oppressed, and that the "game" is zero-sum. BUT, sometimes, the shoe fits, because there are people who are so angry at their actual and/or perceived oppressors that they would be up for a bloody vengeancefest, whether they're able to admit this openly or not. Ditto, regardless of intent, people can make sweeping declarations, moral statements, or policy proposals that have gaping loopholes or a visible potential for abuse, and it's perfectly reasonable to call out those gaps or blind spots in good faith. When someone says, "Hey, your 'indigenous people should get to reclaim their homeland and decide what should be done with colonizers' plan sounds a lot like Richard Spencer's grand plan to my ears," replying with "REE YOU'RE A MEAN COLONIZER" strikes people as inherently sus. In those cases, the best response is to acknowledge the criticism and problem-solve it, or target and explain the exact point of confusion.
@@thearunrams , many mass shootings, most genocides, and many ethnic and religious wars, as they are driven by an initial perception of oneself as the victim and one's target as one's oppressor. It's not a healthy mindset to encourage.
@@dinosaysrawr I meant to ask for specific examples of colonized people rising up against colonizers and committing genocide against them. Real world genocides, historically, have taken place against already oppressed groups that were conveniently picked out as scapegoats. It's never just feelings that lead to genocide; it's explosive feelings in tandem with violent power dynamics and a lack of cohesion. For all the brutality the British exported to India, the Indian independence movement didn't initiate a genocide against the British, though it did get violent. Same goes for the revolution in Haiti - it targeted slave owners, yes, but it didn't indiscriminately kill random whites - the Polish people in Haiti, for one, were major supporters of the revolution, and were considered allies not targets. You're looking at this from an idealist perspective while I'm looking at it from a materialist perspective. Speaking of Land Back though - take the example of South Africa, because that's a country in which land is still concentrated in the hands of people descended from OG colonizers. Is it really wrong to demand that that land be returned to the native people? If you say No because you're scared of whites being targeted, you're valuing your hypothetical (which is white genocide) over objective reality (which is the exploitation of the indigenous South African peoples). If you say Yes, then we could try and figure out how best to redistribute land to the indigenous while making sure innocent bystanders don't get hurt. If you avoid the question and express your moral support for the status quo, why SHOULDN'T I declare that you are nothing but a pro colonialist? Comparing this to Nazi bullshit, which is spewed by already powerful groups hungry for more, is incredibly disingenuous
It's pretty telling that'd you'd repeat that Red Ice comic as if to defend yourself (39:20) here. Vaush/Ian is literally siding with that Red Ice comic (15:40).
“Guys genocide would never happen haha.. unless?” How can these goddamn crybullies constantly try to obfuscate arguments with syllogisms this much and then act in shock when people draw the obvious conclusion of their arguments?
More like redefining terms and phrases to deflect from ones own ignorance about black people's ideologies and smear your interlocutor in order to save face
Something I've noticed when arguing or talking to people with this sort of... Anti-racism means being anti-white, or feminism means being misandrist, is that if you force them to engage in even the slightest bit of nuance they can't follow. I did this with one of these misandrist types that I had gotten vibes from that made me suspect she might be transphobic. So the argument was simple: considering the short amount of time that written history spans, and the pace at which human evolution changes us, and that no major event has occurred that would snap trans people into existence, there is no reason to assume that trans people didn't exist in pre-historic times. Three premises and a conclusion. But she (as well as her friends) *couldn't* grasp it, and started saying I had made the claim that there is evidence that trans people existed in pre-historic times, which I never did. Time and time again I run into people like this, and every time I try to engage in any kind of nuance, they can't grasp it. So I'm not all that surprised anymore about these things.
That is typical for certain sectors of any population, I don't know if it has to do with intelligence or education and frankly I don't actually care, cause the truth of the matter seems to be that they *want* simple solutions and explanations for how the world works. An understandable desire, everything seems to get faster and more connected with each passing year and this means more complicated, but we can't adapt to it by shutting our eyes and ears and yell at the top of our lungs. Edit: spelling
I think a simpler argument to make is that there is a chance that modern observations regarding Humanity have always existed even back then, but because there are so many more people now the oddities really stand out. Humanity only crossed the 1 billion population threshold in early 1820. Dozens of thousands of years existing led up to that point. We hit 2B around 1920, 100 years later. In just 100 more years? Nearly 8B. The percentage of deviation from the norm could totally be the same, but the population has scaled up hundreds of times in the blink of time in terms of evolution. Add to that the limitations of knowledge back then, and any sort of condition could have been passed off as like...bad spirits or demons. Also, since we don't have to fight for our life every single day just to exist, we have plenty of time for introspection.
A lot of conservatives abuse Dr. King's legacy, but I am certain that I am not doing so when I say that he was firmly in support of coalition-building with many non-black people and groups. For example, the idea of him promoting and supporting self-segregation is absurd, he clearly wanted everyone to come together and push for civil rights, even though there was some significant identity politics (some identity politics does not preclude coalitions). The evidence strongly opposes the idea self segregation helps. The biggest thing that dominates and destroys racial prejudice is positive interactions with other groups. The way you defeat that is by segregating, it's also why the most racist people (often in rural America, see Pew and other studies for details on these silos) are the ones who've never seen the other racial groups outside of a TV screen.
One of the tests that I do mentally for a lot of ideological positions is to ask "Is this something a fascist would support and benefit from?" If the answer to that is yes, we probably should not do it. If fascists are super hyped about ethnonationalism, (which they are by definition) and segregation, we can be certain those things will have negative effects on minorities. This situation seems so blatantly wrong that this litmus test is unnecessary, but it is important none the less to remember that nothing happens in a vacuum. Any action we take will necessarily have an effect on everyone adjacent to it, so if something looks nice from a really limited perspective, but in a larger sense aligns perfectly with malicious racists, we probably should take another look. By extension, if fascists keep telling us that something will make racism worse, then we should *absolutely* do that thing. Fascists constantly argue that racism is a result of diversity, and that if everyone was separated they would no longer have any friction and racism would subside. This is not only nonsensical on it's face, but the fact that fascists argue it means that it will work in favor of creating their ideal world.
Dude brought up Malcolm X? The guy that literally denounced his younger beliefs for being too radical and unhelpful? Does this dude not know about Malcolms later life?
I feel like this a problem a lot of people have when thinking about historicall figures. We think of them in a single moment of time, not over their whole lifespan. People imagine hitler as a dictator, not a war veteran. People imagine Mohammed Ali as a black and white era boxer, not an old man in the early 21st century
Feels like this dude watched clips of Malcom being like "If a rabid dog threatens to bite you, shoot the dog" and never actually read his autobiography.
@@MrHat. Do not use Hitler in that example. There is a point where if you get extremely dangerous, the rest of your life really doesn't matter, and you should be remembered only for the horrible things you did. The point otherwise is fine in general.
Vaush is categorically wrong about comparing Black Nationalism to White Nationalism. He dangerously conflates Black Nationalism with White Nationalism. He tries to pin this off on half-cocked extremes with little to no historical precedence. He, as a fellow slice of wonder bread, fails to comprehend the systemic oppression of this still ongoing colony project.
Glad Vowsh covered this and gave it the appropriate level of respect (i.e. none) by doing so drunk. Badmouse is such a smug over-thinker in this video. Real shame that that was how he chose to come back to youtube
I remember when he was a left tuber before left tube even existed. But now there a so many so many better channels. Plastic pills and Epoch philosophy for real difficult theory, Vaush and Big Joel for some great popcorn content and Philosophy tube and Contra points for the costumes and aesthetics etc...
@@ieattheburger James Baldwin was for the integration of White and Black Americans, not their separation. BadMouse defends people who endorse or do not condemn black separatism. Separatism is the opposite of integration. To further this message, BadMouse uses footage of a James Baldwin speech. As a result it frames Baldwin as if he agrees with the separatists BadMouse was defending. The fact that Baldwin’s speech not only contradicts the separatists, but is in line with Vaush’s position indicates that BadMouse is not only an idiot, but a racist by virtue of using the speech of a black civil rights activist without even considering that speech’s content and reducing a man down to his colour because “putting an eloquent black man at the end of my video essay makes me seem more correct”.
@@desmondkurtz1936 So you're saying that BadMouse, a self-described editor, used stuff out-of-context to reinforce a poorly-supported take? Because that's the vibe I got from watching the original BadMouse video. Dinesh D'Souza tactics.
@@huaweilayhill9182 It's not even that they were all out of context. The Baldwin stuff at the end was directly contradicting the points BadMouse mad at the beginning, lol.
@@desmondkurtz1936 I think he used Baldwin's quote because they were a Black Nationalist. Black Nationalism is different than Black Separatism. Something Vaush doesn't understand.
15:20 Dude, Isle of Man and Cornwall has literally *revived* their old Celtic languages after their last native speakers *died.* There’s an active movement to revive the Celtic languages that the Anglo-Saxons suppressed and destroyed after their invasion and imperialist rule of the isles. Also, there remains active linguistic strife in Scotland, Ireland and Wales as the Celtic speakers of those countries are trying to keep themselves from being assimilated into the English-speaking majority of the region. A strife that can very easily be compared to native Americans trying to keep their cultural heritage alive as well. This guy is just wrong in *sooo* many fucking ways Jesus Christ.
In fairness, I don't know how much we care about preserving culture - especially when the primary reason for people speaking English instead of old Scots or Gaellic or Welsh nowadays is because it's just sort of more convenient.
@@TheNoodleGod9001 that’s the thing. Celtic-speakers are switching to English because it’s more convenient. Because their society have been largely anglicised after centuries of English imperialism. It’s literally the same when it comes to Native American language strife. Native Americans could switch to English if they wanted to, it’d far more convenient for them. But they don’t want to give up on their culture, so they stick to their languages. Even if it leads to them being discriminated towards on a systemic level.
If it makes you feel any better, the Angles and Saxons (along with the Frisians and Jutes) probably migrated to England. The sources that say that the Saxons invaded are a little suspect.
@@Literally-Brian Are you literally trying to argue that someone intentionally not speaking the same language as the vast majority around you is systemic discrimination against that person? That is some absolutely absurd logic if that is the case.
@@sypherthe297th2 no they're saying that choosing to speak their native tongue leads to a lot of discrimination, which is objectively true on multiple fronts considering the conditions and suppression of natives who live in their own communities rather than assimilating into the big cities.
I'm a big fan of Bad Mouse saying debate is a pathetic thing to do as an adult and then closing his video with clip of James Baldwin's closing remarks from an Oxford debate against William F Buckley Jr. (Edit: Cambridge, not Oxford. But IDGAF because I'm American and that makes Cambridge and Oxford the same place) Bad Mouse laser targeted and destroyed every single one of his positions in a single clip that he deliberately put in his own video.
Also, William F Buckley Jr is THE physical manifestation of the concept of smugness, so it's nice to see him deliver shite arguments to a prepared opponent in front of an audience generally hostile to his positions.
@@DemonofHell48 blessings to you, stoned comrade. Hbomb didnt just become popular because he destroyed grand dad, he was also a highly competent entertainer
@@cg1906 bruh, I think Hbomb would take offense being called "competent"! How da fuck do you grammer with quotation marks? Before the " or after? Bfnhgnjkhfbhaaaaaa
@@DemonofHell48 ugh as a former English major, the quotations grammer is fucking hellish. I say do whatever makes sense because i got marks off for doing it either way. Also saying that he's a highly competent entertainer is a compliment my buddarino lmao
"I'm not racist, but I think if people don't want to live with people of different skin colour, that's fine. I don't support any Racism though, I just think it's their decision."
Its so weird to see badmouse and Peter coffin and all those types who actually had like... some good critiques in the past just fall off the deep end of defending bad takes. I guess just another showcase of why not to align with people based on what they don't like.
Exactly, holy shit. I remember watching both of them when I started to get into Leftism, because I too thought "Yeah, Capitalism bad, Imperialism bad!", but their videos always rubbed me the wrong way. There was always something about them willing to critique Capitalism, but not proposing any systems that value personal freedom. And don't even get me started on their apologism of "existing Socialism" like North Korea, China or the former USSR. As someone born in Ukraine, whose parents experienced the USSR's oppression first-hand, I could never get around supporting these countries, just because "Look! They, too, hate Capitalism, isn't that splendid?"
@@kasane1337 they took the good point that western nations propagandized us against those nations to an illogical conclusion that those nations were/are actually good.
@@kasane1337 The problem you kept detecting was 'essentialism' and 'reductionist thought'. In other words, they do the same thing as conservative dogma does which is there's only one answer to any problem. In their case, it was capitalism. Why do cars have four wheels? Capitalism. Why did Han shoot first? Capitalism. Doesn't matter what the question is.
This arc might have blackpilled me in western leftism, not sure if this shit is going to work out when "Ethnic cleansing is bad, racial supremacy is bad." is a inferno tier take
@@rainbowkrampus tbh I think the biggest downfall from these people is that they're literally just taking this stance because they are spiteful toward vaush. They literally are just doing the whole "Vaush Bad, Vaush Bad" garbage the whole time, professor flowers went onto the original chat stream full of spite and it caused her to be unwilling to admit there are limitations to even the soundbites she pushes. I don't think most of these people actually support what they are saying, I think they just hate Vaush so much that they want to take every single chance they can to smear him or be against what he says, no matter how uncontroversial his take is. She personally said she doesn't agree with genocide but still was unwilling to say ethnic cleansing is off the table for colonized people, it just reaks of her being way too spiteful and proud of herself that she refuses to even elaborate on her own assumed truism that she wants everyone to just believe is absolute, just because she's the one saying it against Vaush. They're turning it into this Jimmy dore style constant call-out garbage where they almost exist just to be publicly anti-vaush and it's super cringe and makes them appear like they don't actually care about any leftist goals they just want to have a clique that can have a strict in-group/out-group rule that won't accept any minute deviations on anything and if you do happen to deviate on the tiniest of thing - then I guess you are a part of a "radlib CIA ploy" or something.
@C S same, I’m never going to become a conservative or Nazi but I’m thinking I’ll just leave the internet for a long while and just read leftist theory, and engage with leftist BOOKS instead of leftist people, cause god damn this shit depresses me.
@@SA-mo3hq The problem is that people with authoritarian mindsets have crippled (with the help of capitalist powers of course) socialist revolutions in the past. Socialism seems to be very vulnerable in its early stages to bad actors adopting the aesthetic and rhetoric while arguing for something not meaningfully different than garden variety right-wing totalitarianism. A government run by a single party is not democratic, and without democracy you cannot have collective ownership. It would be as if amazon said "All you paying customers are the *real* owners of Amazon!" Just saying that everything is owned by the worker because it is owned by the State is not labor seizing production. And yet that keeps happening, and people keep letting them identify as socialist/communist. I understand that socialism is a large umbrella, but if you put Single Party Authoritarianism under the same label as Democratic control of government and the economy, it becomes a useless term. We really need to fight to maintain some sort of ideological position. Otherwise people like this actually can, and historically have, gained power.
@@rainbowkrampus What we're seeing is a manifestation of what postmodern critics were saying about the world for years. Hyperreality and simulacrum. Signifiers that are ascribed meaning independent of the signified. Postmodernism was never a prescriptive position about how reality should be, merely a descriptive position toward the uncomfortable conditions created in large part by forces like capitalism. By that I mean - people are more concerned with the label than the thing it represents. They define their "leftism" by the labels they identify with, rather than the goals of the movements in question. Things like "you need to identify as a feminist in order to fight gender inequality". So it becomes a simulacrum of leftism - the map becomes the territory. What we need is a healthy dose of empiricism. Bring leftist politics back to its roots in critical thinking and evidence based positions. At the end of the day, this sort of idealistic space of "my feelings about reality and the labels I identify with matter more than reality itself" is a space created by and for conservatism, and is basically incompatible with progress.
OMG I always KNEW there was something about BadMouse but it never hit me until now: he IS Tankie Sargon to a T: the inflections, the manner of speaking, the condescension, and most of all, the chortling, self-satisfied, psuedo-intellectual smugness: just like Sargon, you can tell BadMouse is talking through a smile and can barely contain himself from giggling at how clever he thinks he's being.
Natives are pushing back on the general Native American tropes. We're different and separate cultures with separate languages. Tell a Navajo "Native Americans " in general helped win WW2....even if it's true.
thinking that vaush represents any kind of left is insane american- centric internet brain. he is just a streamer, and american 'left' is functionally non existent. there are more actual socialists in british parliament than in the us.
@@phunkracy Well let's get the No True Scotsman fallacy out of the way at the beginning. . . That was easy enough. How is Vaush not a socialist? Can you actually defend the assertion based on his stated positions? I doubt you'll respond rather than slink away like most red fascists but we'll see.
@@sypherthe297th2 He spends more time debating then talking about how to organize your work place. Or discussing what rank and file committees are. Or talking about any kind of strike action going on around the world. Or about anything the majority of people spend 1/3 of their day in.
One solution: revolution How does that work? Nobody knows. Just do it lmao! Ignore the fact that the revolutions of the 20th century happened in nations whose leadership was weakened by constant war and monarchist exesses. Ignore the fact that the US military is literally the most powerful force on this planet. Just do revolution comrade!
oh, there's a suggestion alright, he slips it in: "X group has no right to tell a minority how they can secure the autonomy of their people" when Vaush said he doesn't like the idea of woke ethnic cleansing. Sounds awful familiar...
Ahh, Badmouse, the revolutionary larper who showed up in the chat of a Black Red Guard stream and asked if "Kendrick Lamar has any revolutionary potential" and got told to frig off with the stupid out of touch larper questions.
Only issue is black red guard deleted some of his own videos, so he may have deleted the stream that included that. (Unless he made them unlisted? Maybe he unlisted them?) I haven't checked in a while but yeah I totally did see this happen, and it was painful to watch but also laughable because it was while badmouse was being overly active online and was being an ass.
I don't know if he actually told him he was a larper, I mean what he said came off like that but I don't actually remember the exact words black red guard used when he got mad about it. He was definitely annoyed and it came off like he was saying he was a larper but he didn't technically say the word larper probably? Idk I will try to find it today at some point, if it's still up that is.
I can't find it, it must've been one of the videos he took down. It was a couple years ago I'm pretty sure, at the very least one year but could've been 2.
I think the fact that Vaush can and constantly responds to callout videos from bothered reactionaries kinda explains my enjoyment of his content. He doesn't cherrypick from the video and take clips and respond. He watches the whole thing and defends himself which proves to me that he isn't a grifter like so many on the "left" claim.
@@im4everskilled Nothing. But the person Vaush was responding to in this video is a reactionary in his claims and beliefs in the video. And likely in many more videos if it's reasonable to deduce the quality of his other content based off of this garbage.
I remember when I was 11 I joking searched up socialism and I found his vids. Looking back he wasn’t that great, he had this cool little ancap Minecraft village but the video was really bad at posing an argument against it, just saying that it somehow relies on slavery without explaining why. I’m glad the quality of socialists on UA-cam has improved since then
@@matthewharris8819 I don't care how hard you whine, you don't get to do an ethnic cleansing. No! BAD! Not even as a treat! I swear to god I will get the rolled up newspaper.
@@nathandrake5544 He defended The Nation of Islam who are nazi and KKK sympathetic. He's either ignorant of history, or, well...The other option is less charitable lol
This video by BadMouse is full of out of context clips. It appears that everytime I see a criticism of Vaush from other members of the left or of "the left", is a bad faith criticism based on out of context of clips and where the real points made by Vaush are never addressed, while a strawman critique is manufactured based on those out of context clips. Near the end of the video, they completely shoot themselves in the foot, by saying that they didn´t expect to change the mind of Vaush´s fans, and claimed that "to protest Vaush, is to endorse Vaush". Then why did they made the video in the 1st place? Wasn´t this video a "protest" against Vaush?
@@eliasaguilar8580 He might do it - nobody is perfect - but everytime there is a tankie doing a video against him, they always argue in bad faith and strawman him.
@@eliasaguilar8580 Well that's a dishonest argument. The vast majority of the time Vaush is responding to a complete video. I'd be amazed if you can actually cite instances of it to support your allegation. I won't hold my breath as you'll likely slink away like a coward. I have my own disagreements with Vaush but I have not seen any instances of dishonesty out of him. Hes at least honest unlike people like Flowers, ChaosIsMel, or this BadMouse idiot.
@@eliasaguilar8580 how dare he take an entire response video addressing him out of context by watching the entire thing, critiquing it, and publishing a 1 and a half hour video of it.
Last year, when I was working for the NPS, I helped a tribe build a longhouse and I had an event where I was traveling a few hundred miles north to release fish with another tribe. The people I was building the longhouse with said "they have their own way of doing things and while we respect it we don't always agree with it." Meanwhile, those I was listening to very intense inter-tribal political debates about actions to be taken and how they should be taken. Sargon clearly known absolutely nothing about tribes if he thinks they all just think of themselves as one big tribe now.
Man this professor flowers thing is wild. One discussion with a racist has all the tankies crawling out of the woodwork to support professor flowers idea that ethnic cleansing should be allowed so long as they can label their enemy as "Colonizers".
@@justwentfullchuu2 it's called reading between the lines. So she didn't call people colonizers and say her race should be given some chunk of land to claim for themselves?
@@justwentfullchuu2 She was asked repeatedly "so is genocide a valid method of decolonization," and her response was always a variation of "that's not for us to decide." BITCH YES IT IS EVERYONE GETS TO CONDEMN FUCKING GENOCIDE NO THAT SHIT IS NOT VALID
@@rainbowkrampus could be, but also somehow thinking "it's up to them to decide" means that other communities just suddenly will consider genocide a good thing is also done in bad faith.
@@floepiejane Ok but im doing this from memory so slight details might be off. Trump's grandfather emigrated from Germany or thereabouts where the family name was Drumpf. It was changed after they arrived in the states in an attempt to fit in given a general anyi-German sentiment around the time of WWI. Given this fact, it is dissimilar from a simple attempt to mispronounce someone's name for a low-brow comedic effect and is more about pointing out that even his name, like so much else about him, was crafted to give a certain impression but the underlying substance isn't there.
holy shit, he could have uploaded this at 1.25x and no one would have known he was drunk. It just seems like the video he is reacting too is 1.25x and vaush is normal speed.
What was with that weird comment about having a home to go back to? For white Americans who broadly know their ancestral heritage moving back their would be just as difficult for them as it would be for an African American to just pick a random west african country on the map. (controlled for economic factors) It can be important to know where you come from but it doesn't give you any real connection to that place.
Indigenous people still care about their nationality, some people don’t know because of, you know, cultural genocide, but lots of indigenous people identify by their nation/tribe/origins, at least in Canada/Turtle Island. To say that it doesn’t matter is…racist.
Is it, though? It depends on the objective, does it not? If the objective is to push some kind of "shared identity built on not whiteness" then it's pretty cringe. But as a leftist, am I obligated to uncritically validate any sort of nation-based identity when I know for a fact that nation as a dividing line for human ingroups causes broad long term harm? As leftists, we should be pushing for a gradual and nonviolent transition away from the very notion of nation-states. At best, national identity is useful as a transitional means of consolidating enough social power to negotiate fair treatment against imperialistic powers (as long as it's explicitly NOT stupid things like ethnic cleansing), but after people stop being marginalized, nationalism is just tribalism.
@@FelisImpurrator kicking colonists out of your nation state should not and is not seen as ethnic cleansing; your advocacy for realizing your Utopian leftist society is actually imperialism if you think otherwise. Since when has leftist = nonviolence?
@@jobsanchez9989 revolution is violence, even when the goal is abolishing the state; Nazi's came to power by election, every government represents a nation by definition. Pacifism is a strategy to achieve a political goal, it is not the goal itself unless youre a monk
This badmouse video has a problem I remember being common to a lot of his content from when I used to watch him - namely that despite him saying a lot, it's nigh-on impossible to figure out what tf he's meant to be getting at lol.
It's a classic move, my friend. Jordan Peterson does the same thing: he's vague enough for his braindead audience to soy-face at his based and redpilled philosophy but simultaneously, if you try to pin him down on a specific claim, he can say you're misinterpreting him. It's what cowards do because they know their true ideology is bullshit.
Thats because it is easier to argue against your opponent when you don't juxtapose your argument against what they have actually said. This is why BadMouse is a dishonest prat. He isn't even strawmanning because that would require him to actually put forward a version of what Vaush was saying rather than just monologuing.
@@rainbowkrampus I actually like that name - really has some putrid quality to it. I'll keep "bloviating gas bag" in mind next time someone gish gallops very slowly without actually putting forth any arguments. Actually, reminds me of how I put this exact skill into one of my tabletop RPG campaigns...and now I have a proper name for it ;D
They mention Ireland five times throughout this video despite having the most dopey fucking idea of the relationship between catholics and protestants in ireland
Vaush: hey when the nazis did a genocide it was bad Tankies: Seems sound to me Vaush: hey, white South Africans shouldn’t be genocided for their race Tankies: >:0
This video got recommended yesterday to me, I had no idea who badmouse was, but I got a weird feeling, seeing as that 1) this guy was defending nationalism, as long as it's not coming from the status quo, and 2) everyone in the comment section were referring to one another as "comrade"... Did the google search on him and boom, he was a sweaty tankie
@@JBlazingit I'm not saying that members from the fringes of the IRA _should_ attack English people in the Irish Minecraft server, but shouldn't we allow marginalised people self-determination against colonisers? /very hard s
As a white South African (family has been here over 300 years), I'd quite like to not be deported :) As an edit, in case anyone is curious, I'd also like to not be ethnically cleansed, that'd be nice too :)
Yeah, PF is a black separatist and should stop claiming to be a black nationalist, or a leftist for that matter, if she refuses to do reparations or redistribution of wealth via social/economic class. Like damn there are poor white people who have not benefited from colonialism and black capitalists that exploit employees. Let’s not throw the former under the bus and give more power to the later.
Wether you want to or not is immaterial, few if anybody is deported as matter of the deportees preferences. Kinda hard to argue for a group of genocidal white supremacists continued presence being foisted on the indigenous just because its a place you've grown accustomed to
I find it kinda scary how some people think that since one culture practices something, then that thing is somehow untouchable. No… I can condemn cultural based homophobia, sexism and pedophilia without being xenophobic. And I will.
I have learned two things from this: 1) Vaush reacts to seeing Pigeon just like I do. That baby is precious and worth shouting it. 2) I think Ian is his name? I feel it's weird to say someone's name so much in a video like that, even an alias would sound odd being said so much. Overall, I will only take the first lesson with me. Naturally only the valuable lesson, for names are temporary but babeh is eternal.
Its a little sus that they won't agree to not ethnically cleanse people. I am one hundred percent against genocide, and apartied, and I don't know why that's a controversial position.
@@24.7SMOKESHOW is your opposition to citizenship rooted in the race of the soon to be ex citizens? What do you mean "granted citizenship by apartied"? White people in South Africa are South African because they were born in South Africa. Its citizenship by birthright not "by apartied"
@@darkmantlestudios how do you imagine the white people became citizens of SA? Who determined colonists born in a colonized country are entitled citizenship in those territories?
I got so lost watching Bad Mouse's criticism. Like the only thing I could even follow logically was his criticism of "oh this reaction by Vaush was a hyperbolic extreme" everything else was just like "uhhh what are we even arguing here? what does this have to do with Vaush's discussion or any Vaush position?" Like really I had no idea where it was going at times.
The reason is that it isn't sincere, it isn't an essay written by a left-winger, but it's a collection of random Vaush-bashing together with segue after segue to the right-wing talking points du-jour. This looks like a script was sent to him by a far-right think-tank. This is not a leftist essay.
Same, I tried watching the actual video first but my brain was rotting because I couldn’t follow anything he was saying. I was even rewatching some parts because I thought I was just not following well.
It's interesting how he talks about cringing at Malcolm X when he was first exposed. I guess I went the other way and was interested in him, which lead me to read his autobiography, which is amazing, and shows his radical transformation from petty criminal to separatist, to enlightened, spiritual, civil rights leader who attempted to drag the Nation of Islam out of ignorance. The last part is important but mouse seems to think is irrelevant.
Vaush is categorically wrong about comparing Black Nationalism to White Nationalism. He dangerously conflates Black Nationalism with White Nationalism. He tries to pin this off on half-cocked extremes with little to no historical precedence. He, as a fellow slice of wonder bread, fails to comprehend the systemic oppression of this still ongoing colony project.
the whole britonic argument is even dumber since they all spoke regional dialects of the same language and shared tradition and folklore completely unlike north american indigenous peoples
It was a much smaller landmass than north America. I haven't looked into it but I wouldn't be surprised if within equivalent landmass sizes you'd have the same kind of variations in dialects of a common language.
@@manjackson2772 the tankie is arguing all of the indigenous populations in north america its absurd and reductive. from personal experience at least in western washington most native people i've spoken to identify ethnically more with whichever tribe they are a part of or as Salishan more generally
@@shadoeboi212 ...? ok? I'm not arguing with you. I'm supporting your comment with additional explanation, showing how dumb badmouse was in that take. Great Britain is literally 40 times smaller than USA. Even if historical timeframe was the same (and it's not) the diversity within US tribes and Britons is incomparable.
Holy fuck can white people and non-Natives stop using Natives as a fucking talking point? Why do these tankies think they have some right to speak for us and say what our perspective is? Vaush is 100% correct, I have never met a Native that doesn't make a point to specify their tribe or nation. The homogenization of Natives is an extremely white perspective. Hell, a lot of Natives don't even like the term "Native American" because it's so general that it can technically apply to any group with ancestry that tracks back to North or South America. It's safe to say that anyone who believes that Native people have melted into a single cultural identity has no idea what they're talking about.
I remember I used to be an anti-SJW and disliked Bad Mouse for his fights with Sargon. Now that I've been well out of that phase for years and I saw his Vaush vid come up I thought I'd give him another chance, I'm all for critcising Voosh if it's good faith but he just instantly lost me all over again lmao
The worst thing is that Badmouse's takes weren't always as catastrophically bad as this. His early days of being a leftie were pretty good, he was your typical libertarian socialist and it was honestly refreshing to see someone who used to be an ancap realise how wrong they were, but now he's done the complete 180 and abandoned anything remotely socialist in favour of these garbage tankie takes he has nowadays.
I never heard of him before this video response, but this happened to me too, characters that I disliked for being on the left and now I dislike for other, more justifiable reasons
His argument about Israel literally proves vaush’s point. Also I love how he cited Sarah Z’s video on debating as if her conclusion was “debate bad, video essay good” like…Sarah is a professional debater. She is a debate coach. Her first ever nebula video was tips and tricks about debates. Her argument was that the way the right uses “debate” (specifically the Ben Shapiro/Steven crowder approach of shouting over college kids) isn’t useful for learning or expanding your knowledge of a subject, just purposefully talking to someone less knowledgeable to reenforce your beliefs. She is not anti-debate. THE SPEECH AT THE END ARE YOU KIDDING ME???
Bad Mouse used to be based and an anarchist. But then idk what happened to him. He also used to be an ancap prior to that.. so maybe his political instincts are a just bit mercurial. Edit: I honestly just wish I understood what changed in his world view, but I've only seen him be very vague about it.
It weirds me out, because he moved away from being an ancap after engaging with leftists and leftist content in good faith an re-examining his positions. I would've expected him to at the very least not clip-chimp, but I guess that just goes to show that expectations are a mistake.
I already made a comment under the video, but this is so increadibly bad faith it hurts. The nice viduals and calming voice make you belive this is some well researched video essay, while it is actually just VDS bullshit
@@OctyabrAprelya it's definitely malicious in it's intent. They wouldn't clip out of context and misrepresent positions purposefully if that wasn't the case.
Conservatives used TDS to stop any criticism of Trump taking place, it's only logical that the community of a radlib posing as a socialist would use the same counter against socialist critiques.
You should have seen him on election night i believe it was. Taking another drink meant chugging a whole glass of wine and after two bottles he was ready for more and I was genuinely concerned he might need to be hospitalized.
I hate when Vaush staggers into my room drunk at three am and starts talking about tankies. I try to pretend I'm sleeping, but I think he can hear me quietly sobbing.
quick, somebody make a comic strip illustration of this pronto!
@@blankspace6367 fuck, i wanna do this now, but art block-
Vaush is similar to midwesternMarx guy, but more polished
"It's praxis time!"
"No, Vaush! No!"
It's pretty telling that'd you'd repeat that Red Ice comic as if to defend yourself (39:20) here. Vaush/Ian is literally siding with that Red Ice comic (15:40).
Oh no, dad came home drunk again. He’s gonna do a response video.
I can't tell you how many times my dad got drunk and did a response video. It was really racist though
@@johnmiller7637 I’m sorry I brought out repressed memories
@@johnmiller7637 and that dad's name, vowsh
*at the therapist* he... he would always come home drunk... and started asking for sources... i can't tell how many times i've been given the coconut analogy...
Say his name liberals
And now "ethnic cleansing is bad" is among one of Vaush's more controversial takes. Fml
Vowsh was like "I'm gonna get drunk off my ass and talk about complex racial issues in America" and still made more valid points than a sober video essayist
He made vastly more valid points than virtually any politician and all segregationist activists.
Yeah. You're 110% right on this. 💯
'sober' they take a shot every five seconds
"they think you're larping as a philosopher king."
"LARPING?"
that made me laugh out loud, drunk vaush is hilarious
@@hemantkarasala5767 legit the funniest thing I've heard on stream in ages hahah
I legitimately thought this was Sargon because I didn't read the title properly and was so confused for the first 20 minutes
They're both anti-communist ethnonationalists so I understand the confusion
Same 😆
😂😂😂😂
I watched this whole video at work and didn't realize it wasn't Sargon until I just read your comment lol. Now I get it.
@@charleshardes Lmao I'm glad I'm not the only one. I felt really dumb.
I still can’t believe that he debated himself sober. This was the best stream I’ve ever seen, Vaush truly rad.
Vaush reliving his glory days while sloshed? Vaush truly sad.
Yes like 10 minutes in he legit sobered himself up; a true legend
Say his name liberals
his name liberals.
What's the time stamp for that?
As a member of the Cherokee Nation, as opposed to the Muskogee, Choctaw, Lakota, Inuit, Mohawk, etc. I think I can pretty well confirm that Native American people have pretty significant cultural and governmental distinctions between each other even if we are pretty much all in it together when it comes to dealing with the issues of the past and present of racism.
BadMouse is doing the thing where a person of another country thinks they understand a thing there because it’s “just like this thing here.”
It doesn't help that the Britonic tribes coalesced into the modern day British after multiple colonizations by outsiders to the islands. Which kind of undermines his argument about mutual oppression making a singular identity when the singular identity formed out of a mutual relationship between colonizer and colonized, not the unity of the colonized to overthrow their colonizers.
@@aperfecttool257 wait people think South Carolina is liberal
Imagine having a white savior complex while also knowing nothing about the people you’re talking about... oh wait.
This comment is stupid. BadMouse’s point is that Native Americans exist only as one people insofar as they are minoritized by a colonizing power. Only through their unified experience of being victims of settler coloniality can they exist as a unified political category that struggles against the colonizer, otherwise, they are not of the same people.
Vaushites are characterized by a total inability to properly interpret left-wing critiques of Vaush
"Ask yourself the reason we call people who live in [sic] 'Britain' 'British' rather than say 'Brittonic'"
Because British is the English form of the word Brittonic (the Latin form of an older Greek word from a Celtic word), and English is the language we speak; it is the same reason I call people from Germany German, and they call themselves Deutch; we employ different languages.
Also, Bad Mouse, walk into a Welsh or Scottish pub with your accent and call them British; there are fair odds you will get punched in the face.
"physically don't exist as a concept"
Concepts tend not to be physical; the tribes of the British Isles were a political concept that were replaced by national ones
>Concepts tend not to be physical
Plato has left the chat
@@FelisImpurrator Thanks the stars, I was getting really tired of his Socrate simping.
Chad sober Vaush vs Gigachad Drunk Vaush
A britbonger trying to talk like an authority on broad sentiments held by Indigenous Americans as a result of their shared experiences whilst completely misrepresenting them and characterizing them as an ethnic and ideological monolith is super cringe.
All tankies cannot see nuance. Its crazy.
He needs to take some notes from john oliver. “you think that people want to hear someone talk about colonialism using this accent?!”
know your own history before judging others lmaooooo
The fact that Vaush saying "Maybe let's not do segregation" deadass resulted in a two-month long arc. I keep thinking we've hit rock bottom, but it turns out we're going to the center of the earth babeee
You missed the year long arc of black nationalism = white nationalism.
He finally got it partially right with black supremacists, how long will it take him to walk back his statements about black separatists.
@@24.7SMOKESHOW I agree, I too can't wait for the Vaush is pro ethnic cleansing arc. It's only a matter of time. If we order our tickets now we can get better seats.
@@wargex he already started when he said the white people in SA apartheid were as innocent as the Jews in Germany and that genocide in Africa was excusable because jobs were hard to come by
@@24.7SMOKESHOW Year long? That was clarified in the following stream. Black separatists are bad.
@@24.7SMOKESHOW No one said genocide was good, beside Flowers. And yes, random white people in SA are not doing the apartheid. You might as well say you personally (assuming you're American) are doing Native American genocide.
I want to congratulate Badmouse on the worst reference and interpretation of Malcolm X that I have ever seen. Someone needs to tell him that white guilt is unproductive.
You can't over how smug he is
What are you talking about?
I really don't get you guys...
'Nobody cares about your precise heritage, we're all just British now!' Tell me you're English without telling me you're English.
Very american take
He probably thinks the same about Italians. I reckon he’s say “Italians don’t care about their precise heritages, they’re all Italian”
He doesn’t understand anything about small cultural groups in any capacity
Scotland might or might not soon leave the kingdom, North Ireland is already slowly leaving it by becoming more economically dependant on Republic of Ireland than Great Britain
Yep, no international frictions within UK. They're all happy family
@@angelikaskoroszyn8495 I feel like a federal system may be the only way to keep Britain together.
@@angelikaskoroszyn8495 wdym, they all British now obv
This is why I hate the video essay trend. There are so many of them now. And a lot of them act superior to the "debate bro" culture they despise, while epitomising the arrogant, petulant leftist trope, refusing to engage in any criticism of *their* video which exists entirely to criticise another person. They're so pathetic, honestly.
Reminds me of the anti sjw days of yt
@@blargh3428 well at least Essay gang puts some effort into it....during the anti-sjw days of yt, most of them would just post rants with picture of their fursona in the video
@@raingulfdrengot195 Sadly the trend of taking clips out of context in order to frame a persons arguments remains.
Because a well made video essay is in a way surperior to the "dabate me bro" content. What I mean with that is that a well made video essay is far more educational, and there's more to gain from watching it, in terms of knowledge. And to some extent it's more civil than a shouting match I guess. Problem is when the video essays are not well made.
But no one can deny that video essays from say ContraPoints, KnowingBetter, HbomberGuy, ThreeArrows or fuck it, even Shaun (bad as his twitter takes may be), are really good.
Or maybe I'm just biased cause some of their best videos are some of my favorite videos on youtube.
I disagree. You don't have to pick one side or the other, you can like video essays and like "debate bro" stuff. Just two different approaches, and a diversity of approaches is necessary. Some of the greatest left tube content is video essays imo. But there are also plenty of shit video essays
As soon as he started talking about streamer money I started yelling "AZAN HOUSE AZAN HOUSE" and clapping like a seal
The internet left has done a number on me.
I hate to be all “identity politics”, but hearing a British person so arrogantly speaking on American politics from the position where nothing they advocate for will affect them either way is annoying as shit
Br*tish
nah that’s cringe bro any1 can talk ab whatever i just dislike that he’s so fcken wrong
@@JudeLind I agree but it is annoying to do that immediately after taking the stance that "stay in your lane" memers are right
@@IamNCRWarrior oh yeh defo dude’s a hypocrite and wrong
I don't feel like that's the best way to put it, rather that he arrogantly asserts that he knows more about American issues than others, and then later shows that he has no clue what he's talking about and just draws inaccurate, surface-level parallels from British politics to make his points (and then later on shows he doesn't know basic British history that I learned in my world history class, indicating he's not familiar with his own country's dynamics either, which was pretty fucking funny).
I mean, the "arrogantly asserting another country's politics" is a stereotype of Americans if anything, we do it quite often as well. Hell, Vaush got in trouble for doing it just last week.
Honestly, as much as you say the whole CP rhetorical looks bad, now that you’ve explicitly explained it like two dozen times, it has done a lot of work for you in terms of distinguishing those with actual critiques of your positions from those coming in bad faith who just want to leech off of mentioning you. It serves as a really effective toe in the water for how seriously you need to take someone’s arguments against you.
true!
Accidentally, the best mistake he could have made. Because yeah, it's kind of a test to see whether someone has actual criticisms or just thinks "Vaush bad, Vaush fat, Vaush p3d0, Vaush lib".
YES
@@kasane1337 can’t forget “Vaush wants to fuck horses”
I hate it when Vaush drinks. It always ends wirh him staggering into my room and yelling about how much he hates Marvel movies and how good he is at Bloodborne.
Lol
Understandable
*Seriously, how does he keep getting in here? I've changed the locks weekly.*
Pick your fighter: White Tankies reclaiming Malcolm X or Conservatives reclaiming MLK
Oof. That stings.
Dennis Prager sockpuppeting Frederick Douglas to say that slavery was necessary
@@dietzlel1423 OK, you win. That was INSANE.
@@dietzlel1423 the real question is Which is worse white person doing blackface or white person doing black voice
Goddamn it, this is a lose lose situation. And this is the reality we live in!
A lot of left-wingers would do well to take a page from the therapists' playbook by recognizing that emotions may be valid, but you don't get to express them any way you want. Oppressed people may have a lot of justifiable and valid anger towards their oppressors and people who remind them of their oppressors, but they still don't get to perpetrate a cathartic genocide.
Oho we're talking therapy metaphors now? Why don't you sit down and think about why your first reaction to "let the colonized overthrow their oppressors" is "me scared of genocide"?
@@thearunrams , that's the initial immature knee-jerk reaction privileged people usually have, yes---but, as allies hopefully learn and mature, they overcome the tendency to assume everything's about them, that everything's a personal criticism, that the oppressed will necessarily treat them as they've treated the oppressed, and that the "game" is zero-sum.
BUT, sometimes, the shoe fits, because there are people who are so angry at their actual and/or perceived oppressors that they would be up for a bloody vengeancefest, whether they're able to admit this openly or not. Ditto, regardless of intent, people can make sweeping declarations, moral statements, or policy proposals that have gaping loopholes or a visible potential for abuse, and it's perfectly reasonable to call out those gaps or blind spots in good faith.
When someone says, "Hey, your 'indigenous people should get to reclaim their homeland and decide what should be done with colonizers' plan sounds a lot like Richard Spencer's grand plan to my ears," replying with "REE YOU'RE A MEAN COLONIZER" strikes people as inherently sus. In those cases, the best response is to acknowledge the criticism and problem-solve it, or target and explain the exact point of confusion.
@@dinosaysrawr okay, what historical precedents do you have in mind?
@@thearunrams , many mass shootings, most genocides, and many ethnic and religious wars, as they are driven by an initial perception of oneself as the victim and one's target as one's oppressor. It's not a healthy mindset to encourage.
@@dinosaysrawr I meant to ask for specific examples of colonized people rising up against colonizers and committing genocide against them. Real world genocides, historically, have taken place against already oppressed groups that were conveniently picked out as scapegoats. It's never just feelings that lead to genocide; it's explosive feelings in tandem with violent power dynamics and a lack of cohesion. For all the brutality the British exported to India, the Indian independence movement didn't initiate a genocide against the British, though it did get violent. Same goes for the revolution in Haiti - it targeted slave owners, yes, but it didn't indiscriminately kill random whites - the Polish people in Haiti, for one, were major supporters of the revolution, and were considered allies not targets.
You're looking at this from an idealist perspective while I'm looking at it from a materialist perspective.
Speaking of Land Back though - take the example of South Africa, because that's a country in which land is still concentrated in the hands of people descended from OG colonizers. Is it really wrong to demand that that land be returned to the native people? If you say No because you're scared of whites being targeted, you're valuing your hypothetical (which is white genocide) over objective reality (which is the exploitation of the indigenous South African peoples). If you say Yes, then we could try and figure out how best to redistribute land to the indigenous while making sure innocent bystanders don't get hurt. If you avoid the question and express your moral support for the status quo, why SHOULDN'T I declare that you are nothing but a pro colonialist? Comparing this to Nazi bullshit, which is spewed by already powerful groups hungry for more, is incredibly disingenuous
This is like if Shaun's twitter was made into a Shaun video lmao.
lol!
100%
TRU
It's pretty telling that'd you'd repeat that Red Ice comic as if to defend yourself (39:20) here. Vaush/Ian is literally siding with that Red Ice comic (15:40).
@@williamoldaker5348 there was a red ice comic about Shaun's twitter being a Bad mouse video?
“Guys genocide would never happen haha.. unless?”
How can these goddamn crybullies constantly try to obfuscate arguments with syllogisms this much and then act in shock when people draw the obvious conclusion of their arguments?
Pfft, gism
@@SpendoG03 Dictionary
More like redefining terms and phrases to deflect from ones own ignorance about black people's ideologies and smear your interlocutor in order to save face
@@24.7SMOKESHOW it’s not a smear. Flowers is a genocide apologist by every metric and Badmouse is defending her. No two ways about it
@@24.7SMOKESHOW what?
this guy feels like he would call xanderhal "pigpuncher" and feel like he made a massive dunk
Something I've noticed when arguing or talking to people with this sort of... Anti-racism means being anti-white, or feminism means being misandrist, is that if you force them to engage in even the slightest bit of nuance they can't follow. I did this with one of these misandrist types that I had gotten vibes from that made me suspect she might be transphobic. So the argument was simple: considering the short amount of time that written history spans, and the pace at which human evolution changes us, and that no major event has occurred that would snap trans people into existence, there is no reason to assume that trans people didn't exist in pre-historic times. Three premises and a conclusion. But she (as well as her friends) *couldn't* grasp it, and started saying I had made the claim that there is evidence that trans people existed in pre-historic times, which I never did.
Time and time again I run into people like this, and every time I try to engage in any kind of nuance, they can't grasp it. So I'm not all that surprised anymore about these things.
That is typical for certain sectors of any population, I don't know if it has to do with intelligence or education and frankly I don't actually care, cause the truth of the matter seems to be that they *want* simple solutions and explanations for how the world works. An understandable desire, everything seems to get faster and more connected with each passing year and this means more complicated, but we can't adapt to it by shutting our eyes and ears and yell at the top of our lungs.
Edit: spelling
Say his name liberals
I think a simpler argument to make is that there is a chance that modern observations regarding Humanity have always existed even back then, but because there are so many more people now the oddities really stand out. Humanity only crossed the 1 billion population threshold in early 1820. Dozens of thousands of years existing led up to that point. We hit 2B around 1920, 100 years later. In just 100 more years? Nearly 8B. The percentage of deviation from the norm could totally be the same, but the population has scaled up hundreds of times in the blink of time in terms of evolution. Add to that the limitations of knowledge back then, and any sort of condition could have been passed off as like...bad spirits or demons. Also, since we don't have to fight for our life every single day just to exist, we have plenty of time for introspection.
Equality is seen as oppression
@@floydis18monthsclean.sayhi51 His name liberals
It’s so wild how enraged all tankies STILL are after an “ethnic cleansing is bad” take.
It was more of a "yeah we colonised what ya going to do about it" take
@@phunkracy so ethnic cleansing is okay?
@@schnoz2372 so you support settler colonialism? Two can play this game.
@@phunkracy Colonialism is better than ethnic cleansing. Stronger groups have always dominated weaker ones throughout history
@@phunkracy there is the option to just answer "no" to that question. Why won't you? It would settle this debate immediately.
This guy sounds like a mix between Sargon and Arch Warhammer and it makes me want to unalive myself in Minecraft.
We gotta say Roblox now, they're onto us.
should be in runescape feller.
How dare you say such a VILE position
We all became Jokar during the stream🤡🤡
@@cctomcat321 This makes me want to reset character in roblox
Holy shit this guy does sound like tankie Sargon
I know, it's sick. There is a whole island nation of people who sound like Sargon.
@@Juhz0r some of them even sound like Milo Yiannopolis, truly a tragedy
Bad mouse used to be very cool and good
Badmouse eats vaush for breakfast
This guy has the most insufferable way of speaking
A lot of conservatives abuse Dr. King's legacy, but I am certain that I am not doing so when I say that he was firmly in support of coalition-building with many non-black people and groups. For example, the idea of him promoting and supporting self-segregation is absurd, he clearly wanted everyone to come together and push for civil rights, even though there was some significant identity politics (some identity politics does not preclude coalitions).
The evidence strongly opposes the idea self segregation helps. The biggest thing that dominates and destroys racial prejudice is positive interactions with other groups. The way you defeat that is by segregating, it's also why the most racist people (often in rural America, see Pew and other studies for details on these silos) are the ones who've never seen the other racial groups outside of a TV screen.
One of the tests that I do mentally for a lot of ideological positions is to ask "Is this something a fascist would support and benefit from?"
If the answer to that is yes, we probably should not do it. If fascists are super hyped about ethnonationalism, (which they are by definition) and segregation, we can be certain those things will have negative effects on minorities. This situation seems so blatantly wrong that this litmus test is unnecessary, but it is important none the less to remember that nothing happens in a vacuum. Any action we take will necessarily have an effect on everyone adjacent to it, so if something looks nice from a really limited perspective, but in a larger sense aligns perfectly with malicious racists, we probably should take another look.
By extension, if fascists keep telling us that something will make racism worse, then we should *absolutely* do that thing. Fascists constantly argue that racism is a result of diversity, and that if everyone was separated they would no longer have any friction and racism would subside. This is not only nonsensical on it's face, but the fact that fascists argue it means that it will work in favor of creating their ideal world.
self-segregation falls apart as a strategy the moment u realize the delineation of certain groups is nearly impossible
@@blankspace6367 which is where the genocide comes in.
So strange, I was expecting a Socialist critique of Vaush, and all I got was a white Liberal saying some boomer "I was once like you" BS.
Ironic considering the criticism was well deserved and vaush is liberal
@@phunkracy but genocide I thought was bad uwu
@@monophone903 its ok as long as its perpetrated by vaush - approved intelligence agency?
@@phunkracy Genocide and ethnic cleansing are always bad.
@@timekeeper2538 dont engage he is commenting everywhere, is just a case of vds
I'd just like to point out that Vaush didn't say that decolonization can't involve ethnic cleansing, international law did that.
Say his name liberals
@@floydis18monthsclean.sayhi51 We're not liberals, you weirdo.
@@zacheryeckard3051 That account is definitely a bot.
@@floydis18monthsclean.sayhi51 5 bucks says this is the alt of the chauvin support account. 6hrs old and follows the same formula, aaaand reported
@@floydis18monthsclean.sayhi51 Be racist more effectively.
Dude brought up Malcolm X? The guy that literally denounced his younger beliefs for being too radical and unhelpful? Does this dude not know about Malcolms later life?
I feel like this a problem a lot of people have when thinking about historicall figures. We think of them in a single moment of time, not over their whole lifespan. People imagine hitler as a dictator, not a war veteran. People imagine Mohammed Ali as a black and white era boxer, not an old man in the early 21st century
Feels like this dude watched clips of Malcom being like "If a rabid dog threatens to bite you, shoot the dog" and never actually read his autobiography.
out of discourse but nice death pfp buddy.
It's like reading early and late Wittgenstein and concluding that his views are contradictory instead that they just changed when he got older
@@MrHat. Do not use Hitler in that example. There is a point where if you get extremely dangerous, the rest of your life really doesn't matter, and you should be remembered only for the horrible things you did. The point otherwise is fine in general.
And to think, this is when he was sobering up.
Say his name liberals
@@floydis18monthsclean.sayhi51 reported
Vaush is categorically wrong about comparing Black Nationalism to White Nationalism. He dangerously conflates Black Nationalism with White Nationalism. He tries to pin this off on half-cocked extremes with little to no historical precedence. He, as a fellow slice of wonder bread, fails to comprehend the systemic oppression of this still ongoing colony project.
@@williamoldaker5348 black nationalism leads to the same outcome. It just uses nicer phrasing. But the end goals are the same…
@@williamoldaker5348 he questioned Flowers repeatedly on the extremes and she seemed pretty accepting of their possibility
Glad Vowsh covered this and gave it the appropriate level of respect (i.e. none) by doing so drunk. Badmouse is such a smug over-thinker in this video. Real shame that that was how he chose to come back to youtube
I remember when he was a left tuber before left tube even existed. But now there a so many so many better channels. Plastic pills and Epoch philosophy for real difficult theory, Vaush and Big Joel for some great popcorn content and Philosophy tube and Contra points for the costumes and aesthetics etc...
I'm not sure I'd call him an overthinker. That's a bit generous.
Yeah, it’s kind of disappointing. However, he does seem reasonable, and seems to empathize with him, maybe they can become allies or friends perhaps?
@@otto_jk Also smaller channels like Anark or Saint Andrewism
Lonerbox 🙌🏻
Using James Baldwin in this context was just, wow, I don't have any words. BadMouse has no right to say that he has done any research on the topic.
Can you explain this comment to the non believers pls?
@@ieattheburger James Baldwin was for the integration of White and Black Americans, not their separation.
BadMouse defends people who endorse or do not condemn black separatism. Separatism is the opposite of integration.
To further this message, BadMouse uses footage of a James Baldwin speech. As a result it frames Baldwin as if he agrees with the separatists BadMouse was defending.
The fact that Baldwin’s speech not only contradicts the separatists, but is in line with Vaush’s position indicates that BadMouse is not only an idiot, but a racist by virtue of using the speech of a black civil rights activist without even considering that speech’s content and reducing a man down to his colour because “putting an eloquent black man at the end of my video essay makes me seem more correct”.
@@desmondkurtz1936 So you're saying that BadMouse, a self-described editor, used stuff out-of-context to reinforce a poorly-supported take?
Because that's the vibe I got from watching the original BadMouse video. Dinesh D'Souza tactics.
@@huaweilayhill9182 It's not even that they were all out of context. The Baldwin stuff at the end was directly contradicting the points BadMouse mad at the beginning, lol.
@@desmondkurtz1936 I think he used Baldwin's quote because they were a Black Nationalist. Black Nationalism is different than Black Separatism. Something Vaush doesn't understand.
15:20 Dude, Isle of Man and Cornwall has literally *revived* their old Celtic languages after their last native speakers *died.*
There’s an active movement to revive the Celtic languages that the Anglo-Saxons suppressed and destroyed after their invasion and imperialist rule of the isles.
Also, there remains active linguistic strife in Scotland, Ireland and Wales as the Celtic speakers of those countries are trying to keep themselves from being assimilated into the English-speaking majority of the region. A strife that can very easily be compared to native Americans trying to keep their cultural heritage alive as well.
This guy is just wrong in *sooo* many fucking ways Jesus Christ.
In fairness, I don't know how much we care about preserving culture - especially when the primary reason for people speaking English instead of old Scots or Gaellic or Welsh nowadays is because it's just sort of more convenient.
@@TheNoodleGod9001 that’s the thing. Celtic-speakers are switching to English because it’s more convenient. Because their society have been largely anglicised after centuries of English imperialism.
It’s literally the same when it comes to Native American language strife. Native Americans could switch to English if they wanted to, it’d far more convenient for them. But they don’t want to give up on their culture, so they stick to their languages. Even if it leads to them being discriminated towards on a systemic level.
If it makes you feel any better, the Angles and Saxons (along with the Frisians and Jutes) probably migrated to England. The sources that say that the Saxons invaded are a little suspect.
@@Literally-Brian Are you literally trying to argue that someone intentionally not speaking the same language as the vast majority around you is systemic discrimination against that person? That is some absolutely absurd logic if that is the case.
@@sypherthe297th2 no they're saying that choosing to speak their native tongue leads to a lot of discrimination, which is objectively true on multiple fronts considering the conditions and suppression of natives who live in their own communities rather than assimilating into the big cities.
There is the stereotype of the bitter socialist. It isn't true often, but for Bad Mouse it is.
For it to be true he'd have to be a socialist.
Yeah in some of his (now deleted) vids he talks in this exact sanctimonious way the entire time. It's pretty depressing.
I'm a big fan of Bad Mouse saying debate is a pathetic thing to do as an adult and then closing his video with clip of James Baldwin's closing remarks from an Oxford debate against William F Buckley Jr. (Edit: Cambridge, not Oxford. But IDGAF because I'm American and that makes Cambridge and Oxford the same place)
Bad Mouse laser targeted and destroyed every single one of his positions in a single clip that he deliberately put in his own video.
On a side note, everyone that enjoys debates should watch the James Baldwin debate. Definitely a great watch.
Also, William F Buckley Jr is THE physical manifestation of the concept of smugness, so it's nice to see him deliver shite arguments to a prepared opponent in front of an audience generally hostile to his positions.
@@uncreative54 basically ben shapiro from the 50s and 60s
I have never seen someone's argument owned by a video THEY ADDED IN! Truly a specticle that happens in a blue moon.
The way Badmouse says "Ian" reminds me of like...a jilted lover or something. Jesus.
when HBomb called Sargon "Carl" it was a good power move, but this is uuuh....bad.
I'm reminded of when Hbomberguy when he did his video on Sargon. I wonder if this guy thought he would get similar clout? Though I'm stoned rn.
@@DemonofHell48 blessings to you, stoned comrade. Hbomb didnt just become popular because he destroyed grand dad, he was also a highly competent entertainer
@@cg1906 bruh, I think Hbomb would take offense being called "competent"!
How da fuck do you grammer with quotation marks? Before the " or after? Bfnhgnjkhfbhaaaaaa
@@DemonofHell48 ugh as a former English major, the quotations grammer is fucking hellish. I say do whatever makes sense because i got marks off for doing it either way. Also saying that he's a highly competent entertainer is a compliment my buddarino lmao
The problem is that she kept saying she was against genocide and then said "but". That automatically voids her stance.
"I'm not racist, but I think if people don't want to live with people of different skin colour, that's fine. I don't support any Racism though, I just think it's their decision."
@@kasane1337 but
Categorically if someone can consider genocide to be justifiable they are a bad person.
Its so weird to see badmouse and Peter coffin and all those types who actually had like... some good critiques in the past just fall off the deep end of defending bad takes. I guess just another showcase of why not to align with people based on what they don't like.
Exactly, holy shit. I remember watching both of them when I started to get into Leftism, because I too thought "Yeah, Capitalism bad, Imperialism bad!", but their videos always rubbed me the wrong way. There was always something about them willing to critique Capitalism, but not proposing any systems that value personal freedom.
And don't even get me started on their apologism of "existing Socialism" like North Korea, China or the former USSR. As someone born in Ukraine, whose parents experienced the USSR's oppression first-hand, I could never get around supporting these countries, just because "Look! They, too, hate Capitalism, isn't that splendid?"
@@kasane1337 they took the good point that western nations propagandized us against those nations to an illogical conclusion that those nations were/are actually good.
@@kasane1337 The problem you kept detecting was 'essentialism' and 'reductionist thought'. In other words, they do the same thing as conservative dogma does which is there's only one answer to any problem. In their case, it was capitalism. Why do cars have four wheels? Capitalism. Why did Han shoot first? Capitalism. Doesn't matter what the question is.
@@Findme1reason that's how morality works in cartoons, so I that's where they got that idea
This arc might have blackpilled me in western leftism, not sure if this shit is going to work out when "Ethnic cleansing is bad, racial supremacy is bad." is a inferno tier take
Don't worry so much. Tankies are all screeching ineffectual lunatics and are utterly irrelevant in actual political influence.
@@rainbowkrampus tbh I think the biggest downfall from these people is that they're literally just taking this stance because they are spiteful toward vaush. They literally are just doing the whole "Vaush Bad, Vaush Bad" garbage the whole time, professor flowers went onto the original chat stream full of spite and it caused her to be unwilling to admit there are limitations to even the soundbites she pushes. I don't think most of these people actually support what they are saying, I think they just hate Vaush so much that they want to take every single chance they can to smear him or be against what he says, no matter how uncontroversial his take is. She personally said she doesn't agree with genocide but still was unwilling to say ethnic cleansing is off the table for colonized people, it just reaks of her being way too spiteful and proud of herself that she refuses to even elaborate on her own assumed truism that she wants everyone to just believe is absolute, just because she's the one saying it against Vaush. They're turning it into this Jimmy dore style constant call-out garbage where they almost exist just to be publicly anti-vaush and it's super cringe and makes them appear like they don't actually care about any leftist goals they just want to have a clique that can have a strict in-group/out-group rule that won't accept any minute deviations on anything and if you do happen to deviate on the tiniest of thing - then I guess you are a part of a "radlib CIA ploy" or something.
@C S same, I’m never going to become a conservative or Nazi but I’m thinking I’ll just leave the internet for a long while and just read leftist theory, and engage with leftist BOOKS instead of leftist people, cause god damn this shit depresses me.
@@SA-mo3hq The problem is that people with authoritarian mindsets have crippled (with the help of capitalist powers of course) socialist revolutions in the past. Socialism seems to be very vulnerable in its early stages to bad actors adopting the aesthetic and rhetoric while arguing for something not meaningfully different than garden variety right-wing totalitarianism.
A government run by a single party is not democratic, and without democracy you cannot have collective ownership. It would be as if amazon said "All you paying customers are the *real* owners of Amazon!" Just saying that everything is owned by the worker because it is owned by the State is not labor seizing production. And yet that keeps happening, and people keep letting them identify as socialist/communist. I understand that socialism is a large umbrella, but if you put Single Party Authoritarianism under the same label as Democratic control of government and the economy, it becomes a useless term.
We really need to fight to maintain some sort of ideological position. Otherwise people like this actually can, and historically have, gained power.
@@rainbowkrampus What we're seeing is a manifestation of what postmodern critics were saying about the world for years. Hyperreality and simulacrum. Signifiers that are ascribed meaning independent of the signified. Postmodernism was never a prescriptive position about how reality should be, merely a descriptive position toward the uncomfortable conditions created in large part by forces like capitalism.
By that I mean - people are more concerned with the label than the thing it represents. They define their "leftism" by the labels they identify with, rather than the goals of the movements in question. Things like "you need to identify as a feminist in order to fight gender inequality". So it becomes a simulacrum of leftism - the map becomes the territory.
What we need is a healthy dose of empiricism. Bring leftist politics back to its roots in critical thinking and evidence based positions. At the end of the day, this sort of idealistic space of "my feelings about reality and the labels I identify with matter more than reality itself" is a space created by and for conservatism, and is basically incompatible with progress.
OMG I always KNEW there was something about BadMouse but it never hit me until now: he IS Tankie Sargon to a T: the inflections, the manner of speaking, the condescension, and most of all, the chortling, self-satisfied, psuedo-intellectual smugness: just like Sargon, you can tell BadMouse is talking through a smile and can barely contain himself from giggling at how clever he thinks he's being.
I'm starting to realize vaushs audience are libs
He speaks like he is doing so through a smile that is all teeth, you can literally hear the bared teeth with some of the vowels
This was the most entertaining stream I’ve ever watched. I was delivering pizzas and continually was laughing so hard it was affecting my driving
I was cutting my hair while watching, I burst out laughing and accidentally cut my ear…it was worth it
@@johnholmes2745 that's called the van gogh
@@martinn.6082 I ser what u did there
@@Vengothics They just referenced a guy with one ear is all.
I also listen to Vaush while doing food delivery lol
Natives are pushing back on the general Native American tropes. We're different and separate cultures with separate languages. Tell a Navajo "Native Americans " in general helped win WW2....even if it's true.
The right: Relentlessly shits on Badmouse
The left: Also relentlessly shits on Badmouse
I think maybe Badmouse is just kinda dumb
The ''Bad'' in his name really checks out.
thinking that vaush represents any kind of left is insane american- centric internet brain. he is just a streamer, and american 'left' is functionally non existent. there are more actual socialists in british parliament than in the us.
@@phunkracy Well let's get the No True Scotsman fallacy out of the way at the beginning. . . That was easy enough.
How is Vaush not a socialist? Can you actually defend the assertion based on his stated positions? I doubt you'll respond rather than slink away like most red fascists but we'll see.
@@phunkracy Not if BadMouse is anything to go by.
@@sypherthe297th2 He spends more time debating then talking about how to organize your work place. Or discussing what rank and file committees are. Or talking about any kind of strike action going on around the world. Or about anything the majority of people spend 1/3 of their day in.
This video by BadMouse is like an essay without a conclusion. There's no suggestion put forward.
it really does read like when you bullshit an essay, and want people to infer that a satisfying point was made.
That's how almost every BadMouse video is. His point is always vague and at best implied, so everyone is confused.
One solution: revolution
How does that work?
Nobody knows. Just do it lmao!
Ignore the fact that the revolutions of the 20th century happened in nations whose leadership was weakened by constant war and monarchist exesses.
Ignore the fact that the US military is literally the most powerful force on this planet.
Just do revolution comrade!
oh, there's a suggestion alright, he slips it in: "X group has no right to tell a minority how they can secure the autonomy of their people" when Vaush said he doesn't like the idea of woke ethnic cleansing. Sounds awful familiar...
vush bawd
This dude sounds like he'd be a top monthly contributor to Black Hammer's Patreon lmao
surely he must've repaid his debt in "colonization credits" back by now lol
BRO I THOUGHT THE SAME THING LMAOOO
LARP BACK?! LARP BACK!
Ahh, Badmouse, the revolutionary larper who showed up in the chat of a Black Red Guard stream and asked if "Kendrick Lamar has any revolutionary potential" and got told to frig off with the stupid out of touch larper questions.
wait really!!??! LOLOLOL is there a video of this?
Holy sht is this actually true
That's the funniest sht ever lmaoooo
Only issue is black red guard deleted some of his own videos, so he may have deleted the stream that included that. (Unless he made them unlisted? Maybe he unlisted them?)
I haven't checked in a while but yeah I totally did see this happen, and it was painful to watch but also laughable because it was while badmouse was being overly active online and was being an ass.
I don't know if he actually told him he was a larper, I mean what he said came off like that but I don't actually remember the exact words black red guard used when he got mad about it. He was definitely annoyed and it came off like he was saying he was a larper but he didn't technically say the word larper probably? Idk I will try to find it today at some point, if it's still up that is.
I can't find it, it must've been one of the videos he took down. It was a couple years ago I'm pretty sure, at the very least one year but could've been 2.
Tankies: wrecking socialist subreddits one subreddit at a time.
so many fucking tankie subreddits, hate it
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY WE CAN'T GET AN ETHNIC CLENSING 😬😬
we have ethnic cleansing at home
Can't we have a little ethnic cleansing, as a treat?
@@johannaweichsel3602 if you behave yourself, maybe you get ethnic cleansing tomorrow. But I'm not making any promises.
@@martijnstuart95 I'll be sooooo good today, you'll see!
I think the fact that Vaush can and constantly responds to callout videos from bothered reactionaries kinda explains my enjoyment of his content. He doesn't cherrypick from the video and take clips and respond. He watches the whole thing and defends himself which proves to me that he isn't a grifter like so many on the "left" claim.
What is reactionary about socialism?
@@im4everskilled Nothing. But the person Vaush was responding to in this video is a reactionary in his claims and beliefs in the video. And likely in many more videos if it's reasonable to deduce the quality of his other content based off of this garbage.
yep
So he's just using a visualiser for his audio content? Not even a jpeg of a smirking rantsona with folded arms? Pathetic...
Clearly the quality of discourse is devolving. We don't even get stinky feetsonas to rant at us anymore.
@@michellecondrey151 If you're not gonna show your face then I at least wanna see your smug OC. Otherwise you're worthless.
Badmouses rantsona was awful lmao
Bad Mouse has defended the Berlin Wall, so don't think we need to listen to him.
Badmouse used to be an anarchist. It's crazy how hard he lost his mind.
Ancap to ancom to tankie what a ride
@@skringas wonder when he will complete the cycle and go full monarchist
@@fotnite_ You mean based and redpilled Jucheist?
I remember when I was 11 I joking searched up socialism and I found his vids. Looking back he wasn’t that great, he had this cool little ancap Minecraft village but the video was really bad at posing an argument against it, just saying that it somehow relies on slavery without explaining why. I’m glad the quality of socialists on UA-cam has improved since then
I guess that’s why he deleted his videos, so he could bury his takes that he doesn’t believe anymore
[This comment is incorrect]
Fighting racism by being racist. Tankie logic
Nobody said that lmao
@@lana_del_Rei.neet- quite a lot of people have said it actually, enough to be recognized on both sides of the political spectrum. It's dumb as shit
Supporting decolonization by opposing decolonization. Liberal logic.
@@matthewharris8819 supporting Matthew Harris by opposing Matthew Harris. Liberal logic.
@@matthewharris8819 I don't care how hard you whine, you don't get to do an ethnic cleansing. No! BAD! Not even as a treat!
I swear to god I will get the rolled up newspaper.
Lol a wasted vaush Making more sense than a sober sargon is theee meme!!!!
@@biggripper9795 SOMEHOW RIGHT LMAO
@@biggripper9795 literally just Rick Sanchez but not a megalomaniac genocidal scientist.
@@nathandrake5544 He defended The Nation of Islam who are nazi and KKK sympathetic. He's either ignorant of history, or, well...The other option is less charitable lol
@@nathandrake5544 cry about it
@@nathandrake5544 I remember. And that doesn't matter. Politics aren't a competition of who did what first...
Drunk vaush is more understandable then a sober right winger
This video by BadMouse is full of out of context clips. It appears that everytime I see a criticism of Vaush from other members of the left or of "the left", is a bad faith criticism based on out of context of clips and where the real points made by Vaush are never addressed, while a strawman critique is manufactured based on those out of context clips.
Near the end of the video, they completely shoot themselves in the foot, by saying that they didn´t expect to change the mind of Vaush´s fans, and claimed that "to protest Vaush, is to endorse Vaush". Then why did they made the video in the 1st place? Wasn´t this video a "protest" against Vaush?
yep
@@eliasaguilar8580 He might do it - nobody is perfect - but everytime there is a tankie doing a video against him, they always argue in bad faith and strawman him.
@@eliasaguilar8580 "No u" isn't a very good defense.
@@eliasaguilar8580 Well that's a dishonest argument. The vast majority of the time Vaush is responding to a complete video. I'd be amazed if you can actually cite instances of it to support your allegation. I won't hold my breath as you'll likely slink away like a coward.
I have my own disagreements with Vaush but I have not seen any instances of dishonesty out of him. Hes at least honest unlike people like Flowers, ChaosIsMel, or this BadMouse idiot.
@@eliasaguilar8580 how dare he take an entire response video addressing him out of context by watching the entire thing, critiquing it, and publishing a 1 and a half hour video of it.
Last year, when I was working for the NPS, I helped a tribe build a longhouse and I had an event where I was traveling a few hundred miles north to release fish with another tribe. The people I was building the longhouse with said "they have their own way of doing things and while we respect it we don't always agree with it." Meanwhile, those I was listening to very intense inter-tribal political debates about actions to be taken and how they should be taken. Sargon clearly known absolutely nothing about tribes if he thinks they all just think of themselves as one big tribe now.
@@rainbowkrampus Yeah it's typical of an imperialist brit
It was amazing watching him debate bro himself into sobriety.
Man this professor flowers thing is wild. One discussion with a racist has all the tankies crawling out of the woodwork to support professor flowers idea that ethnic cleansing should be allowed so long as they can label their enemy as "Colonizers".
What the hell nobody has ever said that
@@justwentfullchuu2 it's called reading between the lines. So she didn't call people colonizers and say her race should be given some chunk of land to claim for themselves?
Vaush as based Asriel kicked cringe professor Flowey's ass
@@justwentfullchuu2
She was asked repeatedly "so is genocide a valid method of decolonization," and her response was always a variation of "that's not for us to decide."
BITCH YES IT IS
EVERYONE GETS TO CONDEMN FUCKING GENOCIDE
NO THAT SHIT IS NOT VALID
@@rainbowkrampus could be, but also somehow thinking "it's up to them to decide" means that other communities just suddenly will consider genocide a good thing is also done in bad faith.
I like how MalignRodent criticizes the Bors comic for becoming a thought-terminating cliche, then uses the dril tweet to do the same thing
I loved that bit
Calling Vaush Ian has the same energy as liberals calling Trump Drumpf.
Not quite. If Trump Drumpf, then Vaush Doosh is more likely.
@@floepiejane You might care to look up the etymology of people calling Trump Drumpf because you seem to have missed the plot.
@@sypherthe297th2 just tell me, please
@@floepiejane Ok but im doing this from memory so slight details might be off. Trump's grandfather emigrated from Germany or thereabouts where the family name was Drumpf. It was changed after they arrived in the states in an attempt to fit in given a general anyi-German sentiment around the time of WWI. Given this fact, it is dissimilar from a simple attempt to mispronounce someone's name for a low-brow comedic effect and is more about pointing out that even his name, like so much else about him, was crafted to give a certain impression but the underlying substance isn't there.
@@sypherthe297th2 ahhh,, I see. You're right. Thanks
...Badmouse? I didn't realize he was uploading again. Also, what the hell happened? How did he go from an An-Cap to an An-Com to a full blown tankie?
Apparently yes, shame
How?
Easy.
By not having more than a surface level understanding of what any of those words mean.
He's just dumb.
@@zacheryeckard3051 vaush literally moved right in last 2 years
@@phunkracy Name 3 specific positions where Vaush moved to the right and how he moved rightward on them.
@@MindForgedManacle lol we'll be waiting on that response for a bit
1.25 speed for sober Vaush
Kinda scarily true
holy shit, he could have uploaded this at 1.25x and no one would have known he was drunk. It just seems like the video he is reacting too is 1.25x and vaush is normal speed.
What in the holy fuck did you just discover.
Now I can watch Vaush at 75 % when I want to hear Vowsh.
What was with that weird comment about having a home to go back to? For white Americans who broadly know their ancestral heritage moving back their would be just as difficult for them as it would be for an African American to just pick a random west african country on the map. (controlled for economic factors) It can be important to know where you come from but it doesn't give you any real connection to that place.
Yeah, go living in Europe without knowing local language. If you work in IT you might survive with only English but for the rest it's not enough
First gen immigrant I can still go back to Italy and enjoy pasta while the rest of you are “deported” ethically of course
Giving land back to the NA would mean that Americans went back to America in the sorest case scenario
Sober: Vaush
Drunk: Voowsh
Tankies love calling vaush “Ian” like it gives them power over him
Like they think he's a demon.
@@convenientEstelle we've learned his true name, now we can banish him back to hell by invoking his name
- tankie talking about vaush
Kiwifarm moment
What are you trying to prove lol
Indigenous people still care about their nationality, some people don’t know because of, you know, cultural genocide, but lots of indigenous people identify by their nation/tribe/origins, at least in Canada/Turtle Island. To say that it doesn’t matter is…racist.
Is it, though? It depends on the objective, does it not?
If the objective is to push some kind of "shared identity built on not whiteness" then it's pretty cringe. But as a leftist, am I obligated to uncritically validate any sort of nation-based identity when I know for a fact that nation as a dividing line for human ingroups causes broad long term harm?
As leftists, we should be pushing for a gradual and nonviolent transition away from the very notion of nation-states. At best, national identity is useful as a transitional means of consolidating enough social power to negotiate fair treatment against imperialistic powers (as long as it's explicitly NOT stupid things like ethnic cleansing), but after people stop being marginalized, nationalism is just tribalism.
This is one of the clues that "BadMouse" isn't a communist or tankie, but a right-winger pretending. His script matches right-wing talking points.
@@FelisImpurrator kicking colonists out of your nation state should not and is not seen as ethnic cleansing; your advocacy for realizing your Utopian leftist society is actually imperialism if you think otherwise.
Since when has leftist = nonviolence?
@@24.7SMOKESHOW violence, like nationalism, means Very different to the Conquistador and the conquered
@@jobsanchez9989 revolution is violence, even when the goal is abolishing the state; Nazi's came to power by election, every government represents a nation by definition.
Pacifism is a strategy to achieve a political goal, it is not the goal itself unless youre a monk
This badmouse video has a problem I remember being common to a lot of his content from when I used to watch him - namely that despite him saying a lot, it's nigh-on impossible to figure out what tf he's meant to be getting at lol.
It's a classic move, my friend.
Jordan Peterson does the same thing: he's vague enough for his braindead audience to soy-face at his based and redpilled philosophy but simultaneously, if you try to pin him down on a specific claim, he can say you're misinterpreting him.
It's what cowards do because they know their true ideology is bullshit.
Indeed. If I'd try to structure this video into chapters, if fail miserably. It's just one long meandering stream of musings. Zizek is more coherent.
Thats because it is easier to argue against your opponent when you don't juxtapose your argument against what they have actually said. This is why BadMouse is a dishonest prat. He isn't even strawmanning because that would require him to actually put forward a version of what Vaush was saying rather than just monologuing.
@@rainbowkrampus I actually like that name - really has some putrid quality to it. I'll keep "bloviating gas bag" in mind next time someone gish gallops very slowly without actually putting forth any arguments.
Actually, reminds me of how I put this exact skill into one of my tabletop RPG campaigns...and now I have a proper name for it ;D
People need to accept after 2 generations you are a native to that land, if your family hasnt set foot in England in over 80 years you arent British.
They mention Ireland five times throughout this video despite having the most dopey fucking idea of the relationship between catholics and protestants in ireland
Badmouse seems to think that the UK is incapable of devolving into sectarian violence when in reality it has been soaked in blood for very little
Vaush: hey when the nazis did a genocide it was bad
Tankies: Seems sound to me
Vaush: hey, white South Africans shouldn’t be genocided for their race
Tankies: >:0
This video got recommended yesterday to me, I had no idea who badmouse was, but I got a weird feeling, seeing as that 1) this guy was defending nationalism, as long as it's not coming from the status quo, and 2) everyone in the comment section were referring to one another as "comrade"... Did the google search on him and boom, he was a sweaty tankie
Old bad mouse was good, no idea what brain tumor developed.
He used to be an AnCap. Then became a anarchist. Now seems to be a full on tankie M-L.
He doesn't know what he is and never reads theory
It's funny because he used to be a huge anarchist.
@@medes5597 vaush has literally admitted he hates reading theory, while BM did read it
@@phunkracy that doesn't change the fact that being pro forced deportation or genocide against any group is bad.
What the heck does Badmouse who is British think that Irish nationalists would not hunt him down if given the strength?
They probably wouldn't.
Okay but that would actually be based
@@TIENxSHINHAN they absolutely would why do you think they wouldn’t
@@SomasAcademy I know your joking but it wouldn’t be
@@JBlazingit I'm not saying that members from the fringes of the IRA _should_ attack English people in the Irish Minecraft server, but shouldn't we allow marginalised people self-determination against colonisers? /very hard s
As a white South African (family has been here over 300 years), I'd quite like to not be deported :)
As an edit, in case anyone is curious, I'd also like to not be ethnically cleansed, that'd be nice too :)
no one cares
@@Vosk21 you cared enough to tell me this and I appreciate you
@@scottydogg278 haha alright you got me
Yeah, PF is a black separatist and should stop claiming to be a black nationalist, or a leftist for that matter, if she refuses to do reparations or redistribution of wealth via social/economic class. Like damn there are poor white people who have not benefited from colonialism and black capitalists that exploit employees. Let’s not throw the former under the bus and give more power to the later.
Wether you want to or not is immaterial, few if anybody is deported as matter of the deportees preferences.
Kinda hard to argue for a group of genocidal white supremacists continued presence being foisted on the indigenous just because its a place you've grown accustomed to
Badmouse gives me Prageru/shabibo vibes. Lots of word association without much substance to the arguments.
Reminded me of a Martin Cabello video
I find it kinda scary how some people think that since one culture practices something, then that thing is somehow untouchable. No… I can condemn cultural based homophobia, sexism and pedophilia without being xenophobic. And I will.
Badmouse was one of the channels that brought me left back in the day, feels bad seeing what they’ve become
same. This sucks
Same here. What the hell happened to him?
to be quite honest looking back at his old videos now he was always kinda stupid.
@@edghhfdchjnmmm how so? He made good videos debunking dumb sargon shit.
@@BlueTyphoon2017 BadMouse has always had an issue where they are very longwinded, so it's annoying to figure out what's actually being said, lol
I have learned two things from this:
1) Vaush reacts to seeing Pigeon just like I do. That baby is precious and worth shouting it.
2) I think Ian is his name? I feel it's weird to say someone's name so much in a video like that, even an alias would sound odd being said so much.
Overall, I will only take the first lesson with me. Naturally only the valuable lesson, for names are temporary but babeh is eternal.
MaliciousRodent's use of "Ian" is an attempt to unnerve Vaush
It's larp. People like this act as if the name thing is a fantasy powerword.
@@FelisImpurrator Ah, they think it's like "Power Word Kill"
Its a little sus that they won't agree to not ethnically cleanse people.
I am one hundred percent against genocide, and apartied, and I don't know why that's a controversial position.
Are the Whites in the US victims of genocide and apartheid now? When? Where?
@@nektariosorfanoudakis2270 Would it be okay if they were?
Against apartheid but for entitled citizenship for the people who were granted citizenship because of apartheid? Ok
@@24.7SMOKESHOW is your opposition to citizenship rooted in the race of the soon to be ex citizens?
What do you mean "granted citizenship by apartied"? White people in South Africa are South African because they were born in South Africa. Its citizenship by birthright not "by apartied"
@@darkmantlestudios how do you imagine the white people became citizens of SA?
Who determined colonists born in a colonized country are entitled citizenship in those territories?
I got so lost watching Bad Mouse's criticism. Like the only thing I could even follow logically was his criticism of "oh this reaction by Vaush was a hyperbolic extreme" everything else was just like "uhhh what are we even arguing here? what does this have to do with Vaush's discussion or any Vaush position?" Like really I had no idea where it was going at times.
The reason is that it isn't sincere, it isn't an essay written by a left-winger, but it's a collection of random Vaush-bashing together with segue after segue to the right-wing talking points du-jour. This looks like a script was sent to him by a far-right think-tank. This is not a leftist essay.
Same, I tried watching the actual video first but my brain was rotting because I couldn’t follow anything he was saying. I was even rewatching some parts because I thought I was just not following well.
@@egg_dc This is an important lesson on infiltration and propaganda. Please learn it now, because the next time, they'll not be as blatant or stupid.
So your response is basically "Matt Boers comic" lmao! *smug lip smacking intensifies*
It's interesting how he talks about cringing at Malcolm X when he was first exposed. I guess I went the other way and was interested in him, which lead me to read his autobiography, which is amazing, and shows his radical transformation from petty criminal to separatist, to enlightened, spiritual, civil rights leader who attempted to drag the Nation of Islam out of ignorance. The last part is important but mouse seems to think is irrelevant.
Talkie Sargon can’t handle fat Ian, especially when he powers up with alcohol 😂
Say his name liberals
@@floydis18monthsclean.sayhi51 reported
@@douglaslangley9251 I can't understand why such scumbags exit, Totally reported
Vaush is categorically wrong about comparing Black Nationalism to White Nationalism. He dangerously conflates Black Nationalism with White Nationalism. He tries to pin this off on half-cocked extremes with little to no historical precedence. He, as a fellow slice of wonder bread, fails to comprehend the systemic oppression of this still ongoing colony project.
@@williamoldaker5348 Farrakhan literally works with nazis.
And separatism is what Vaush specifically disagrees with.
the whole britonic argument is even dumber since they all spoke regional dialects of the same language and shared tradition and folklore completely unlike north american indigenous peoples
It was a much smaller landmass than north America. I haven't looked into it but I wouldn't be surprised if within equivalent landmass sizes you'd have the same kind of variations in dialects of a common language.
@@manjackson2772 the tankie is arguing all of the indigenous populations in north america its absurd and reductive. from personal experience at least in western washington most native people i've spoken to identify ethnically more with whichever tribe they are a part of or as Salishan more generally
it has a lot to do with geography, UK is smaller than Texas so it is quite a hyperbole to compare it to the whole USA.
@@horace6851 that hyperbolic point was one from the video Vaush was reacting too which I was calling dumb and reductive
@@shadoeboi212 ...? ok? I'm not arguing with you. I'm supporting your comment with additional explanation, showing how dumb badmouse was in that take. Great Britain is literally 40 times smaller than USA. Even if historical timeframe was the same (and it's not) the diversity within US tribes and Britons is incomparable.
Imagine Vaush's mom sees this and starts calling him Vaush in regular conversation.
Holy fuck can white people and non-Natives stop using Natives as a fucking talking point? Why do these tankies think they have some right to speak for us and say what our perspective is? Vaush is 100% correct, I have never met a Native that doesn't make a point to specify their tribe or nation. The homogenization of Natives is an extremely white perspective. Hell, a lot of Natives don't even like the term "Native American" because it's so general that it can technically apply to any group with ancestry that tracks back to North or South America. It's safe to say that anyone who believes that Native people have melted into a single cultural identity has no idea what they're talking about.
I remember I used to be an anti-SJW and disliked Bad Mouse for his fights with Sargon.
Now that I've been well out of that phase for years and I saw his Vaush vid come up I thought I'd give him another chance, I'm all for critcising Voosh if it's good faith but he just instantly lost me all over again lmao
Same
The worst thing is that Badmouse's takes weren't always as catastrophically bad as this. His early days of being a leftie were pretty good, he was your typical libertarian socialist and it was honestly refreshing to see someone who used to be an ancap realise how wrong they were, but now he's done the complete 180 and abandoned anything remotely socialist in favour of these garbage tankie takes he has nowadays.
I never heard of him before this video response, but this happened to me too, characters that I disliked for being on the left and now I dislike for other, more justifiable reasons
Bad Mouse argued with Sargon? How did you know who was who?
His argument about Israel literally proves vaush’s point. Also I love how he cited Sarah Z’s video on debating as if her conclusion was “debate bad, video essay good” like…Sarah is a professional debater. She is a debate coach. Her first ever nebula video was tips and tricks about debates. Her argument was that the way the right uses “debate” (specifically the Ben Shapiro/Steven crowder approach of shouting over college kids) isn’t useful for learning or expanding your knowledge of a subject, just purposefully talking to someone less knowledgeable to reenforce your beliefs. She is not anti-debate. THE SPEECH AT THE END ARE YOU KIDDING ME???
Bad Mouse used to be based and an anarchist. But then idk what happened to him. He also used to be an ancap prior to that.. so maybe his political instincts are a just bit mercurial. Edit: I honestly just wish I understood what changed in his world view, but I've only seen him be very vague about it.
He grew up, even vaush doesnt hold true to his supposedly anarchist side
Ancap lol
Recently badmouse said that Contrapoints was better before she got all these subscribers. I feel like it’s people trying to out hipster each other.
It weirds me out, because he moved away from being an ancap after engaging with leftists and leftist content in good faith an re-examining his positions. I would've expected him to at the very least not clip-chimp, but I guess that just goes to show that expectations are a mistake.
@@phunkracy Becoming an unhinged tankie is not the same as "growing up".
I already made a comment under the video, but this is so increadibly bad faith it hurts. The nice viduals and calming voice make you belive this is some well researched video essay, while it is actually just VDS bullshit
Pager U moment
It feels kind of manipulative. I feel they try to exploit a parasocial relationship with their viewers.
@@OctyabrAprelya it's definitely malicious in it's intent. They wouldn't clip out of context and misrepresent positions purposefully if that wasn't the case.
Conservatives used TDS to stop any criticism of Trump taking place, it's only logical that the community of a radlib posing as a socialist would use the same counter against socialist critiques.
@@user-vv2kf1kn8c There was no socialist criticism of Vaush in BadMouses video 😂
this is by far the most drunk I've ever seen Vaush lmao. hope you drank a bunch of water after this!
Chat is always saying this like he isn't a 27-year-old man who keeps a giant jug of water next to him at all times. He woke up hangover-free.
@@claires1063 To be fair, he was also until recently alcohol intolerant by his own admission, lol
You should have seen him on election night i believe it was. Taking another drink meant chugging a whole glass of wine and after two bottles he was ready for more and I was genuinely concerned he might need to be hospitalized.
You should see how fast he gets sober. It was a wild stream. I'm glad he's been restreaming to UA-cam I've watch a couple of them.
@@misterdemocracy3335 tbf wine is as weak as american beer
Badmouseproductions? Badfaithproductions more like it
Englishman with Irish grandparents, yes his take was incredibly stupid.
You’re grandparents dislike the English?
It wasn’t.
oh no, my politics dad is going to turn into an alcoholic too
Vaush debates himself into sobriety. Amazin’
as an irish person, what he said about ireland makes me literally so mad. he’s so fucking english omg
Can’t wait for the sequel: High Vowsh
This is the sequel. Look for "Vaush ANNIHILATES Simple Conservative (While High)"
Sadly vaush gets too anxious to stream while high
@@disappointingperson9162 Sure I get that.. but what about Vowsh??
No, no, Vowsh is Drunk, so high would be like...something else. Viiiish?
@@henriquepacheco7473 That one is a certified classic
Gatekeeper is angry that his hobby is becoming more popular.
"I was a Leftist before it was cool and edgy 😎"