He is perfect indeed. I would like to think he could be the Star Trek version of Doctor Who. But in this case, time comes to him, not travel through time.
@@Mxyzptlksac fair point. But they really never looked back a lot in the TNG Era at how a storyline might have effected previous TOS stories. Also, Harlan Ellison was still around so the production guys might not have wanted to deal with that particular can of worms.
@@TwistedSecrets777 Not if she is going to end up back in the 22nd century of the prime universe, I think. Remember, Michael, her crew and the Discovery all appeared in the future as well. Why did this happen to Georgiou and not to Michael or the rest of the crew? And why are they not trying to find a way to get back to the 22nd century? Doesn't make sense to me...
@@DanielBrongers It was mentioned earlier in the episode, it's happening to Phillipa because not only did she jump 900 years into the future but she had already jumped universes.
@@Washuluver87 Correct. According to this season of Discovery time-travel over a long distance can, apparently, be disorienting to some (Seems the Discovery crew avoided this by and large). Time-travel over a long span AND across a dimension is terminal. So Philippa has to either go across to (whenever) the mirror universe, or way back in time in the prime universe. Those are her two options. She didn't want to go back to the mirror universe "You're not sending me back to Terra" so she's probably somewhere around the 23rd century in the Prime universe. For creative writing purposes, that would be my guess. If Pike is also getting a series they probably don't want to be playing in the same sandbox. I suppose there's one more option. The differing resonances of universes explanation seems to suggest the the real reason Philippa is ill isn't simply that she traveled a great distance through time while being in the wrong universe, but rather that she traveled so far that the two universes had drifted apart upon her return. Thus, the discordance of her atomic resonance was terminally severe. Theoretically, the distance she traveled through time is irrelevant compared to the fact that she went past the point where the universes were acceptably parallel. For example, assume the discomfort/pain caused by this discordance is proportional to how far apart the universes drift apart. If that is the case, there must be a general distance/time at which that distance triggers a terminal discordance. If Philippa jumped forward say...333 years, to a point where that terminal distance was still 70 years into the future, she'd probably be fine. For that matter, if some random Terran from 333 years past Philippa's time happened to find themselves in the prime universe, and THEN they jumped 40 years into the future from that point they'd also probably be fine ("Fine" meaning not dying. Probably uncomfortable in some way though.) My point is that the universes drifting apart is the issue, not simply that she went forward in time while being in the wrong one. SO, in addition to sending Philippa back in time in the prime universe, or over to the mirror universe in any timeline, this being could also send her to whatever universe is currently close enough to the mirror universe not to kill her. Assuming such a universe exists.
@@Diggnuts Please, Philippa failed nonetheless and Spock reformed a whole empire. Discovery also acknowledged 4/5 most decorated captains were male. Listen to UA-cam haters less please.
Michelle Yeoh earned her Oscar by taking every role as a serious challenge to be better than she was in her previous roles. I’m glad Paramount is reconsidering her chance to revisit her previous role in “Section 31”. I don’t think it’ll be a recycling project but another award for Yeoh’s ongoing career. ❤❤❤
I don't know about paramount reconsidering Michelle Yeoh coming back to do the show. She had promised to do it even before she took that Oscar: She never thought and she said this in interviews That everything everywhere would ever take off the way it did.
Back when Michael saved the Emperor in Season 1, I remember her getting quite some criticism for it. For one, because she effectively kidnapped the Emperor, and because of the crimes the Emperor committed in her reality. But I always thought saving her, even if it seemed unreasonable at the time, was the most Star Trek course of action Michael could've taken. Or at least, just letting her die was the exact opposite. At the time, it was just an emotional reaction because Michael couldn't see her mentor, even if it wasn't really her, die again. But I think it's also because she wanted to see Prime Georgiou in Mirror Georgiou. For a long time, it seemed like the two were nothing alike. But time went on to prove that this was very much a case of nature vs nurture, and that Mirror Georgiou always had the things that made her prime counterpart great. Others who were given the opportunity for redemption arcs, like Winn and Dukat, rejected them. Georgiou didn't waste hers. She cannot erase her past crimes. But if she is willing to change, they don't have to define her future. At it's most basic, the detour to the mirror universe in Season 1 showed Michael how terrible things could get if we allowed our fears to make all our decisions for us. So by the time Discovery returned, she was not willing to support a plan that would've ruined the Klingon Empire, even if it appeared to be the only option left. Now, Georgiou has learnt similar lessons. Arguably in a more believable way, since her character was actually given the time for it to feel significant. I just wish that this side plot had happened in a show with longer seasons. Two episodes (plus setup) is a lot to sacrifice in a 13 episode season when it does fairly little for the main plot.
@@RealLordVoldemort fair enough few of the others were okay if they didn't listen to burnham and and try and kill phillipa they would have made it to their next birthday or performance review
Michelle Yeo is an incredibly talented actress. She played an awesome part in this, looking forward to seeing her in the spinoff series. (can you tell I'm a fan 😂)
@@carycimino7699 Based on a recent update it seems that the project is still very much alive and still moving forward with Michelle IF and when she finds the time.
@@crazybrit-nasafan Sadly I Heard that the Section 31 Show they may Announce Today First Contact Day will be a Mini Series, That is Both Good and Bad cause on One Hand we will get a Section 31 Show but on the Other it Will be Short.
I truly love the dialog from the Guardian telling Emperor Georgiou that she truly changed when she helped Saru. Like the Guardian, she did not have to do this. That is truly a powerful statement.
Did nobody get the quantum leap reference? Guardian " you saved a Kelpian and he will save others, a lot of them " Last quantum leap episode " at the risk of over inflating your ego Sam you've done more the lives you touched, touched others and those lives touched more, you've done a lot of good Sam Beckett "
Theres no saying that the guardian of forever isn't a Q, or a creation of the Q, or just something the Q occasionally like to mess with. Basically always assume at some level, there is a Q involved.
This was an emotional moment for me. I almost cried. Ive never done that watching star trek. Emperor georgiou was an amazing character, well written, great development. Always mysterious, which left me wanting to see more. Always badass, always knowing she will save the day. I gotta say the scene where she fights the courier is amazing. I still think that scene is bad ass
"Weighed." This alludes to the Egyptian lore of Death and Judgement by Anubis. The dead's soul is weighed against a feather. If the soul is heavier than the feather, it is sent to their version of Hell. Otherwise, their version of Heaven. And Anubis is a pretty slick anthro Jackal, just don't hit him up on a date, kay? Carl, "needed" to help the Emperor travel back, failing that as Dr. Kovich predicted., going out with a bang. DISCOVERY is a lynch pin in that timeline. It's needed right where it is, as Capt. Burnham.
@@Velldog Star Trek: Quantum Leap, where Section 31/Temporal Agent Philippa Georgiou time travels from one century to the next to resolve crime/mystery of the week and to protect the Federation universe from whichever impending doom that may come its way.
The problem with this Guardian of Forever is that he cares what happens when people change the timeline. The original Guardian of Forever had a malevolent sort of apathy. It didn't matter to him, whatsoever, what someone did with the timeline. He was a superior being, but concepts like morality and justice were the concerns of mere mortals, concerns he wasn't designed to be bothered with.
alot can happen in the many thousands of years that has passed .....he tested her to see if she would try to do something evil and in the end she showed she wasnt the same person she was before that so he sent her before all of it began to start a new road .....to bad the show cant go on with her it would make a badass side show
"Stargate" is actually inspired by Star Trek & the City on the Edge of Forever, as a child I saw that episode for the first time when my parents let me stay up late one night to watch this crazy new show that they both also watched, I was about 6 years old back in the day... ...yeah the day, way back in the groovy 60s in the UK. I have waited over half a century to hear those words again "I AM THE GUARDIAN OF FOREVER..." STAR TREK is back, haters!!
Star Trek is mostly a Buck Rogers series updated to the late 60 competing with crews on SF ships like in Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. Several episodes are lifted directly from Philip Nowlan novels (1920s) or the 30s Buck Rogers comics. The Space Union of Planets and uniforms come from a kids series called "Rocky Jones" in the 50s and the setup is basically Forbidden Planet updated with a fleet of bigger saucer ships, with aliens discovered. Did the Stargate movie in the 90s do it because of the set dresser mistakes in 1966 building City (it wasn't supposed to be a blinking rock doughnut)...i don't know. However I doubt it as the Stargate didn't take you through time but space, as did the Jumpgates on B5 or the wormhole on DS9 the B5 knockoff. The look maybe, but it also looks like Irwin Allen's Time Tunnel a very popular show in the late 60s that has been rebooted a dozen times with different names.
ya know what's so cool the Guardian of Forever didn't have to do what he did he could have let Georgiou die. I think he saw something good in her and the only way to find out where she truly belonged was to test her and see if her time in Michal's universe had changed her for the better and it did so he took a liking to Georgiou and gave her a new course in a universe i have a feeling she is going to Love
of all the phenomenal cosmic powers Star Trek had, the Guardian of Forever wasn't even in my top 20 to behind Carl. I wasn't even really expecting him to be a beard for Q
The Guardian of Forever at least in one of the beta canon novels was an artificial intelligence created by the Q, before they ascended into their next plane of existence. Consider the Guardian to be the final grand creation of beings nearing godhood, they have already done everything and can do anything, but going back to the every possible outcome of history would be a triumph for their civilization. At least, it's how I see the Guardian, the final great creation of a god-like race. John de Lancie's Q even mentioned it as "at least our ancestors knew how to build things", it's hard to get praise from the Q and the Guardian being their last material creation seems poetic.
“This Michael Burnham is right where she needs to be”, interesting phrasing, a reference to another Michael Burnham he came into contact in another time period, STO players understand.
I love this sequence, it's a test to see if Georgiou has changed. She tried to make a difference and in the end did in a way. She still failed but she put the effort in and that;s what the GOF saw. If this were any other show she would have failed. I like that this show grasped change properly that it's about learning and attitude. Georgiou keeps her core personality but is exposed to a life where she doesn't have to be on guard against every single person so it opens her up to new experiences and she can let down her guard on occasion which lets her warm up to others.
Exactly. Its also what I am Working on Now in Philosophy and God. Its What People seem to not Understand. This is what God Judges us on, and what We are striving for. Change is not aout Dramatic results, but inner Realization. Apprach.
I'm curious what he meant about Saru saving others in that universe. Be interesting to see one more incusion into the mirror universe of the past and see what happens. Perhaps Saru joins up with Spock after his encounter with Prime Kirk and they start a revolution.
@@ReaverLordTonus - I'd prefer a les Misérables approach. I Know the Song of Angry men is Popular since The Musical but the Story is actually saying the Revolutionaries were Wrong. Change does not occur by Replacing Inflexible Law with unbridled Lust and the Fires of Hatred. Change occurs when You Love, and are Kind, an Forgive.This is Why Javier Who represented The law, as in Old Testament Law of Moses, could not be appeased. He is Justice, and law, and order, but not Compassion, or Forgiveness. The law is unforgiving. But The Law is not Evil. The Revolutionaries are those Who reject the Strict Nature of The Law, but carry it to the extreme of rejecting it. They are carried away by their Passions, and Destroy themselves int he End if they do Succeed in Revolutions. It is like choosing to throw yourself into the Col of the Woods in Winter, or choosing to Burn the Woods down. You could instead build a Fire in a Fireplace. At First in a Camp. Then a Hut. Then a House. It is not good to be too Cold, but not good to be too Hot either. Passion is Good, in the sense meant here, and so is Law, but not Alone. We must learn to Control the Fire, and to Respect The law, but not be Slaves to it either. The Problem is, You want Geirgeu, who learned to Reject the Fire of Her heart being her Master, to Once More sink into letting Fire Rule Her. Revolutionaries Seize by Force. They make No inner Change. Either in others or in themselves. No, She'd be better being a New Spiritual Leader, as it were. A New Buddha, or New Prophet, or New Guru, or New whatever You wish to Call Her. Be this Literally, by becoming a sort of Religious Leader, or more Broadly, by Embracing the Role in some other Social Capacity. But Real Change is not found in Revolutionaries, but in the Path of peace.
Knowing what she had went through that got her to the point where she is now, when she asks if she could bring Micheal it jokes me up every time. After all this time, she's finally TRULY not alone, and now she has to go to once again not be alone and to make it all the more painful, it's the other version of her daughter, who also doesn't want to have to say goodbye to another version of her Captain who she DEEPLY loved and admired. Man say what you will about this show but in comparison to what disney did with star wars we got gold.
Watching Phillipa leave WAS very sad 😥 BUT expected!!!!!!!! Things have a way of working out and maybe she'll return IN her own unique way!!!!!!!!!! Wishing her lotsa GOOD luck!!!!!!!!!
She could have. The name section 31, was give to the organization by the original federation charter back in enterprise. However, the organization probably did exist before then.
@@PsychCaptain Yes; I said maybe the guardian sent her back in time far enough to found section 31; and she named it that, because she was in the 31st century at the time.
Per ENT, Section 31 was first created via the United Earth Starfleet charter, Article 14, Section 31 and was definitely actively conducting operations by the 2140s and 2150s. So if she's truly going back to the beginning, that would suggest yet another early prequel.
"Getting weighed" probably has two meaning. Either as an acceptable carry-on luggage to store in the upper bin, or by going the route of ancient Egyptian mythology where the gods judged the dead by placing their hearts on a scale.
Why I'm getting a lot of "It's A Wonderful Life" vibe here, with Georgiou is George Bailey and Carl is Clarence, and he is sent with a mission to show Georgiou that she has a different and better path in whichever universe she ends up next (aka her own Trek series).
Even an atrocious vile personality can gain meaning from insights into themselves that prompt wiser decisions for the better. Only another who is constant with beliefs and actions has a chance of gaining the trust of the other.
By what that gurdian mean is that he will be sent to a time where warp technology is yet to be discovered cause there are two conclusion about the mirror universe it either started in a time of a roman empire existed or it started when Cochrane killed the vulans and took the survey ship.
That's what I thought...I'm guessing that its First Contact between Terrans and Vulcans But then again, Archer said the empire existed for what...thousands of years? Or did Archer say centuries? Which indicates that it could be the Roman empire
You understand the implication? That the Mirror Universe is actually an alternate universe with a different quantum state? Carl said that Georgiou was going to a time when the prime universe and the mirror universe were still aligned. So at some point in the past, that changed. An event happened with different outcomes in the two universes, and that set the two universes on different trajectories. This is consistent w/the 7th season TNG episode where Worf encountered multiple alternate universes with different timelines sequentially. In each universe he entered, the characters were mostly the same, with a critical historical event in their pasts where every subsequent event happened differently. I want to know what event in the past caused the two universes to diverge. It must have been pre-Star Trek Enterprise, since the flag on the moon in the mirror Universe wasn't the Stars and Stripes but that of a sword and the Earth on it.
They said that the 2 universes had drifted so far apart by the 32nd century that there hadn't been any crossings in centuries. The time that they came from would probably be sufficient for Georgiou's survival since the two universes were more closely aligned. It was only when they traveled into the future that there was a problem.
Well, like Carl said , "back in those days it was like sure, come on through.. just don't change history'.. then he was starting to be used for evil..so he disappeared
That's like... A years-long process with less than 5% chances of success. Can't exchange the atoms immediately because it's replacing her body but what happens to the mind within the brain? Not to mention the quantum signatures of the matter that composes her is from the mirror universe. Exchanging that with atoms from the prime is simply asking like, "Hey resurrect prime Georgiou by turning the emperor into her."
Phillipa was one of the best characters in that series, and you can see that Michelle just relished playing her. I know that a move has been mooted, but I'd love to see her in a future series. Perhaps a spin-off?
She will be the one to start Section 31. The Mirror Universe will be erased canonically. Philippa will stop Zevran Cochran from killing the Vulcans. eventually leading that Mirror Universe to become the Prime Universe. Section 31 will exist to counter the federation's high ideals, and as a safeguard against that weakness, because it is needed.
Nah the Terran Empire predates Zefram Cochrane. A successor if the Roman Empire. Also Terrans are almost are different species due to being hyper aggressive and brightness tolerance.
@@reddyredwolf3931 I believe that the beginning of the Terran empire was Cochrane. Everything before him was just normal human history that we have today. The mirror universe began with the shooting of the Vulcans. That is likely where Georgiou is being sent.
@@MalcrowAlogoran Watch the A Mirror Darkly intro ua-cam.com/video/sfbsZRbwbJ4/v-deo.html The Moon landing is not American but Terran. Terran culture descended from Rome. Mirror Mirror had Terrans and Mirror Spock perform the Roman salute. Mirror Archer refered to the gods in his speech on the ISS Avenger. Discovery Mirror Universe episodes confirm the Terran Empire is a continuation of Rome.
I have to say Michelle yole's performance has improved a lot in this season comparing to the previous 2. I enjoyed scenes with her in this season quite a lot. Too bad that her character's story has to depart here from Michael's . I do hope we could still see more of phillipa gergeou in the future seasons.
"and he'll save others, a lot of them." Wait so that wasn't an illusion or simulation, a new alternate timeline was created that will branch off and continue with the repercussions of what she did? Be interesting to see the results.
Looking forward to seeing Philippa in Section 31. BTW, in DS9's Mirror Universe episodes, the subjugated peoples were just as horrible as the Terrans. For example, Mirror Major Kira, was a bisexual nyphomaniac. And that was her good points. She was also murderous and sadistic. Poor Garak was reduced to kissing ass in both realities. 😛
Prime Garak would have them all killing each other, then make himself Emperor. The only ass Garak was kissing was probably Bashir, but the flirting, romancing, and chocolates fell on deaf ears.
When the mirror and the prime universe was aligned? So she may be going to prevent the mirror universe from being formed. No Empire; no murdered Vulcans at First Contact... wait, no super sexy Kira. Hold on, let's think this through.
Maybe others have pointed this out, but Carl seems to be dressed in an outfit reminiscent of what men wore in the 1930s, the era McCoy, Kirk and Spock visited when they went through the Guardian.
Just one continuity error. When Kirk and Spock found the Guardian, Kirk asked “What is it?”. And the Guardian said that it was waiting for a question for billions of years. Clearly if Discovery is asking questions, that can’t be right.
Nah. We still don't know who created The Guardian, and we don't know who were Q prior to their ascension. I wouldn't be surprised the the makers of the Guardian were engineers belonging to the same race that later became Q. He controls time and space in a similar way to Q, but also - as we see here - he has a conscience, which tells me that he predates Q by far.
@@frodobaggins3974 Part of the Beta Canon books says that Q before their ascension were the builders of the Guardian of Forever, they used highly advanced technology to explore space/time until they became Gods due to something "the new era". Our Q, de Lancie, was the one who asked the last question of the Guardian when he was younger commenting his ancestors built the Guardian in appreciation, signalling the Guardian's construction and abilities as a wonder of his own people's distant past. I like that concept, Q had to have evolved from mere mortals at some point and developed technology. It's like human beings nowadays marveling at the Pyramids, the Great Wall, or Stonehenge. We no longer need or use these places, but they are monument to those who came before us. To me that is what the Guardian could be, an evolutionary sign post of how far the Q had to go and still even further before they became eventually.
@@time391 Really? I didn't know. But a similar concept was explored in Stargate, with an ancient race, probably the first one to evolve - at least in the known universe - built a lot of interesting tech, and then moved on to another plane of existence, leaving their constructs behind for younger races to play with. And to be honest - I remember a similar concept in other good series, many of which predates Discovery. Babylon 5 for example. But yeah - Q must have evolved somehow to become what they were in TNG or Voyager. Evolution takes time, and I guess at some point of their history they started mastering time itself, potentially exploring other dimensions / realities. That's when The Guardian could have been built. And then imagine - if you have all the energy that your galaxy can provide at your disposal, you understand the reality to the level where you can travel anywhere / anytime, and have no natural predators hunting you, what's next on the list? How does a civilisation progress from this point? One way is to seek accension. Leave the physical form. Become Q. By the way, the concept is actually ancient and originates form Chinese Taoism. Maybe that's why writers find it so attractive.
I get it. She has to go back to the 23rd Century. And that is the ONLY possible cure for her condition. She jumped universes but the result of being flung forwards to the 32nd century was too much for her cells to cope with! Basically she had lost their stability. The only way out is for her to go back to the 23rd Century. A year or so! After the Discovery's disappearance from there. The Temporal Cold War was 200 years earlier. And the Guardian of Forever absolutely disliked what the Sphere Builders and some others did!
Is it confirmed that her show is taking place just after the disappearance of Discovery? As he said she's going back to a time when the two universes where allined, which would be before First Contact.
You're supposed to, but the concept is totally different and rather cheapened the Guardian. True there are few writers that are operating at Ellison's metaphysical imagination in this age. In the original draft the Guardian was 7 Guardians (a council of time) and the portal was just their device. Roddenberry's crew condensed them to a voiceover and the portal being The Guardian. I watched this sequence of S3 and this was done as a backdoor pilot like Assignment Earth. It was contrived just to explain a new series, and Carl is not as well done as the pan temporal character in MIB3 which he is lifted from. A big clue is The Prime universe and The Terran universe...thats fan-fiction lingo. Why would one timeline be the "Prime"? In the original, the Guardian always knew how time went. Kirk and company was there so Edith had died. She died because Kirk fell in love with her and took her to see a Clark Gable movie...after Spock was given just enough information to know "Edith Keylor must die" Why did the Social Worker cross the road...to get to the other side. Why was she on the other side...she was on a date.
@@liamloxley1222 would they be? I mean, during the Roman Era, or prior to that, they are the same universe. Just like, prior to the mining ship, Kelvin and Prime are the same universe
@@liamloxley1222 okay, I see what you are saying. My understanding is that the universe is the same until an event takes place, your argument is that they are separate universes that just happen to be duplicates until the event takes place.
Isn’t interesting the idea that geourgio or even burnham herself at that moment realizing she’s going back in time could have actually beamed back on the ship and looked at the past records to find geourgio and her accomplishments before she was sent back. That would be such a mind mess.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The actor who plays The Guardian is PERFECT for the part.
I agree! He was on CSI and enjoyed the character of Captain Brass that he portrayed in the series.
Paul Guilfoyle
Agreed 👍🏻
He is perfect indeed. I would like to think he could be the Star Trek version of Doctor Who. But in this case, time comes to him, not travel through time.
@@williamhaney4118 Agreed. He’s more of the Star Trek equivalent of a TARDIS, being a gateway to other portals and dimensions.
Its cool to see a mention to the Temporal Cold War again
I get the feeling from this entire season that the Cold War went Hot.
I remember during Enterprise thinking where was the Guardian during the Temporal Cold War
@@Mxyzptlksac fair point. But they really never looked back a lot in the TNG Era at how a storyline might have effected previous TOS stories.
Also, Harlan Ellison was still around so the production guys might not have wanted to deal with that particular can of worms.
@@CWR1701 The Temporal Cold War were this close to being hot, you can see it when you play the Star Trek Online game
@@Mxyzptlksac danialson, archer hated him.
I was soooooo nostalgic when he said "I am the Guardian of Forever" in that same voice as the original in ST:TOS....😢😢😢
My heart broke when she asked if Michael can join her... so sad to see her go.
Even if she could go she would go through the same thing Georgiou is going through
@@TwistedSecrets777 Not if she is going to end up back in the 22nd century of the prime universe, I think. Remember, Michael, her crew and the Discovery all appeared in the future as well. Why did this happen to Georgiou and not to Michael or the rest of the crew? And why are they not trying to find a way to get back to the 22nd century? Doesn't make sense to me...
Perhaps their understanding of temporal mechanics is lacking. Almost 1k years is a LOT of scientific advancement....
@@DanielBrongers It was mentioned earlier in the episode, it's happening to Phillipa because not only did she jump 900 years into the future but she had already jumped universes.
@@Washuluver87 Correct. According to this season of Discovery time-travel over a long distance can, apparently, be disorienting to some (Seems the Discovery crew avoided this by and large). Time-travel over a long span AND across a dimension is terminal. So Philippa has to either go across to (whenever) the mirror universe, or way back in time in the prime universe. Those are her two options. She didn't want to go back to the mirror universe "You're not sending me back to Terra" so she's probably somewhere around the 23rd century in the Prime universe. For creative writing purposes, that would be my guess. If Pike is also getting a series they probably don't want to be playing in the same sandbox.
I suppose there's one more option. The differing resonances of universes explanation seems to suggest the the real reason Philippa is ill isn't simply that she traveled a great distance through time while being in the wrong universe, but rather that she traveled so far that the two universes had drifted apart upon her return. Thus, the discordance of her atomic resonance was terminally severe. Theoretically, the distance she traveled through time is irrelevant compared to the fact that she went past the point where the universes were acceptably parallel.
For example, assume the discomfort/pain caused by this discordance is proportional to how far apart the universes drift apart. If that is the case, there must be a general distance/time at which that distance triggers a terminal discordance.
If Philippa jumped forward say...333 years, to a point where that terminal distance was still 70 years into the future, she'd probably be fine. For that matter, if some random Terran from 333 years past Philippa's time happened to find themselves in the prime universe, and THEN they jumped 40 years into the future from that point they'd also probably be fine ("Fine" meaning not dying. Probably uncomfortable in some way though.)
My point is that the universes drifting apart is the issue, not simply that she went forward in time while being in the wrong one. SO, in addition to sending Philippa back in time in the prime universe, or over to the mirror universe in any timeline, this being could also send her to whatever universe is currently close enough to the mirror universe not to kill her. Assuming such a universe exists.
Adding the original voice for the big reveal was a nice touch. Captain Brass was an added bonus too.
If you think about it Georgiou basically created the resistance in the mirror universe. She also took future tech with her to the past!
The Terrans thought the USS Defiant NCC-1764 was damn advanced wait till they see a 1000 year futuristic Apple Watch lol.
Can't have mirror Spock have that honor.. He's male...
@@Diggnuts oh STFU. Pike is the most honourable person in the show and he’s male.
@@Diggnuts Please, Philippa failed nonetheless and Spock reformed a whole empire. Discovery also acknowledged 4/5 most decorated captains were male. Listen to UA-cam haters less please.
@@champbaka You have trouble reading I gather?
Michelle Yeoh earned her Oscar by taking every role as a serious challenge to be better than she was in her previous roles. I’m glad Paramount is reconsidering her chance to revisit her previous role in “Section 31”. I don’t think it’ll be a recycling project but another award for Yeoh’s ongoing career. ❤❤❤
She is fantastic 👏
I don't know about paramount reconsidering Michelle Yeoh coming back to do the show.
She had promised to do it even before she took that Oscar: She never thought and she said this in interviews That everything everywhere would ever take off the way it did.
this show didnt get an oscar.
@@nomercyinc6783 But Michelle Yeoh did.
Back when Michael saved the Emperor in Season 1, I remember her getting quite some criticism for it. For one, because she effectively kidnapped the Emperor, and because of the crimes the Emperor committed in her reality.
But I always thought saving her, even if it seemed unreasonable at the time, was the most Star Trek course of action Michael could've taken. Or at least, just letting her die was the exact opposite. At the time, it was just an emotional reaction because Michael couldn't see her mentor, even if it wasn't really her, die again. But I think it's also because she wanted to see Prime Georgiou in Mirror Georgiou.
For a long time, it seemed like the two were nothing alike. But time went on to prove that this was very much a case of nature vs nurture, and that Mirror Georgiou always had the things that made her prime counterpart great. Others who were given the opportunity for redemption arcs, like Winn and Dukat, rejected them. Georgiou didn't waste hers.
She cannot erase her past crimes. But if she is willing to change, they don't have to define her future.
At it's most basic, the detour to the mirror universe in Season 1 showed Michael how terrible things could get if we allowed our fears to make all our decisions for us. So by the time Discovery returned, she was not willing to support a plan that would've ruined the Klingon Empire, even if it appeared to be the only option left.
Now, Georgiou has learnt similar lessons. Arguably in a more believable way, since her character was actually given the time for it to feel significant. I just wish that this side plot had happened in a show with longer seasons. Two episodes (plus setup) is a lot to sacrifice in a 13 episode season when it does fairly little for the main plot.
Loved this whole setup and payoff, guardian of forever + temporal wars
We lost Lorca. We lost Pike. Now we're losing Georgiou.
I'm very sad.
Pike and Georgiou are getting their own shows
Someone will take her place in the empire
@@brianlindee220 killy and owo
@@RealLordVoldemort fair enough few of the others were okay if they didn't listen to burnham and and try and kill phillipa they would have made it to their next birthday or performance review
@@brianlindee220 loyalty is important in any universe
Closest thing for Star Trek to have their Doctor Who.
Ha! Yeah!
He even looks a bit like Sylvester McCoy
Both franchises utilize the the Time Vortex: the Guardian of Forever in ST and the Time Lords in DW
Exactly!
Right? I went through this entire episode wondering if he'd make some vague reference to being a physician of some kind.
Michelle Yeo is an incredibly talented actress. She played an awesome part in this, looking forward to seeing her in the spinoff series. (can you tell I'm a fan 😂)
Oh nice ther'es a spinoff/ :)
@@RoadRunnerMeep yep. Heard there will be a section 31 based spin off.
She has not signed on due to other projects, they waited to long
@@carycimino7699 Based on a recent update it seems that the project is still very much alive and still moving forward with Michelle IF and when she finds the time.
@@crazybrit-nasafan Sadly I Heard that the Section 31 Show they may Announce Today First Contact Day will be a Mini Series, That is Both Good and Bad cause on One Hand we will get a Section 31 Show but on the Other it Will be Short.
I truly love the dialog from the Guardian telling Emperor Georgiou that she truly changed when she helped Saru. Like the Guardian, she did not have to do this. That is truly a powerful statement.
@ShannonFreng Terran society is masculine. As long as you are human and not alien, you were treated well. (By Terran Standards)
empress= Female Emperor= male
"I am the guardian of forever."
ICONIC
Did nobody get the quantum leap reference? Guardian " you saved a Kelpian and he will save others, a lot of them "
Last quantum leap episode " at the risk of over inflating your ego Sam you've done more the lives you touched, touched others and those lives touched more, you've done a lot of good Sam Beckett "
don't think that was deliberate. Remember that ST preceded QL.
Might have been a nod to Captain Archers actor.
The end of quantum leap is soo sad
I cried through the whole thing after he said….I am the guardian of forever.❤
At first I thought it might be a Q. Was a great nod to the original Trek for it ito be the Guardian of Forever.
Theres no saying that the guardian of forever isn't a Q, or a creation of the Q, or just something the Q occasionally like to mess with. Basically always assume at some level, there is a Q involved.
damn I'm gonna miss her so much!
This scene could not have been done any better.
This was an emotional moment for me. I almost cried. Ive never done that watching star trek. Emperor georgiou was an amazing character, well written, great development. Always mysterious, which left me wanting to see more. Always badass, always knowing she will save the day. I gotta say the scene where she fights the courier is amazing. I still think that scene is bad ass
Empress, not Emperor.
Have you watched The Visitor? If so, it's literally impossible not to tear up on your first viewing if you're a human being
She should have been director instead. That would have made it even better! A thought.
I like this actor. He relaxes me.
Many such adventures await you.. City on the Edge of Forever..
"Weighed." This alludes to the Egyptian lore of Death and Judgement by Anubis. The dead's soul is weighed against a feather. If the soul is heavier than the feather, it is sent to their version of Hell. Otherwise, their version of Heaven. And Anubis is a pretty slick anthro Jackal, just don't hit him up on a date, kay?
Carl, "needed" to help the Emperor travel back, failing that as Dr. Kovich predicted., going out with a bang. DISCOVERY is a lynch pin in that timeline. It's needed right where it is, as Capt. Burnham.
Cant belive they retired best character of the show.
She's getting her own series...
And she'll be voicing a character in a animated series,
"Ark the Animation"
She’s getting the section 31 show
@@Velldog Star Trek: Quantum Leap, where Section 31/Temporal Agent Philippa Georgiou time travels from one century to the next to resolve crime/mystery of the week and to protect the Federation universe from whichever impending doom that may come its way.
@@LGranthamsHeir Quantum leap was great. I'd love to see a reboot set in Trek Prime Universe😂
the only time that Discovery was interesting was when Empress Gorgiou was in it
He wasn't testing whether she was worth saving. He was testing whether she'd fit back in to the mirror universe, which she absolutely wouldn't.
And he we lost the best chracter of the series and with her, the ground needed and now lost.
The problem with this Guardian of Forever is that he cares what happens when people change the timeline. The original Guardian of Forever had a malevolent sort of apathy. It didn't matter to him, whatsoever, what someone did with the timeline. He was a superior being, but concepts like morality and justice were the concerns of mere mortals, concerns he wasn't designed to be bothered with.
alot can happen in the many thousands of years that has passed .....he tested her to see if she would try to do something evil and in the end she showed she wasnt the same person she was before that so he sent her before all of it began to start a new road .....to bad the show cant go on with her it would make a badass side show
You got all that from
@@daviddesjardins7751 yep and ive been a trekky all my life :P
That's what the Guardian was... then. A thousand years later, it grew. It evolved.
You think these hacks care about canon?
"Stargate" is actually inspired by Star Trek & the City on the Edge of Forever, as a child I saw that episode for the first time when my parents let me stay up late one night to watch this crazy new show that they both also watched, I was about 6 years old back in the day...
...yeah the day, way back in the groovy 60s in the UK. I have waited over half a century to hear those words again "I AM THE GUARDIAN OF FOREVER..."
STAR TREK is back, haters!!
I’m glad you like the show. This was a super cool character return with the perfect actor to play him!
Yup imagining believing that something is better just because it has things you already know...
Actually, buck Rogers “comics” have “space star gates” for spaceships...... the concept of gate-portal was conceived by writers before 1900s.
@@jimliu2560 Ok? Doesn't mean Stargate wasn't inspired by the Guardian of Forever.
Star Trek is mostly a Buck Rogers series updated to the late 60 competing with crews on SF ships like in Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea.
Several episodes are lifted directly from Philip Nowlan novels (1920s) or the 30s Buck Rogers comics.
The Space Union of Planets and uniforms come from a kids series called "Rocky Jones" in the 50s and the setup is basically Forbidden Planet updated with a fleet of bigger saucer ships, with aliens discovered.
Did the Stargate movie in the 90s do it because of the set dresser mistakes in 1966 building City (it wasn't supposed to be a blinking rock doughnut)...i don't know.
However I doubt it as the Stargate didn't take you through time but space, as did the Jumpgates on B5 or the wormhole on DS9 the B5 knockoff.
The look maybe, but it also looks like Irwin Allen's Time Tunnel a very popular show in the late 60s that has been rebooted a dozen times with different names.
ジョージアは役者として主役級だった
Watching this scene for the 500th time. I just love that we get a back story and it doesnt feel rushed. You feel bad for the guardian in the end.
'you saved a kelpien'
Me: omg saru, he's probably still holding Georgiou's body in the mirror universe oh god- ;-;
ya know what's so cool the Guardian of Forever didn't have to do what he did he could have let Georgiou die. I think he saw something good in her and the only way to find out where she truly belonged was to test her and see if her time in Michal's universe had changed her for the better and it did so he took a liking to Georgiou and gave her a new course in a universe i have a feeling she is going to Love
Tbf georgiou was a pretty interesting individual, good or not
of all the phenomenal cosmic powers Star Trek had, the Guardian of Forever wasn't even in my top 20 to behind Carl. I wasn't even really expecting him to be a beard for Q
The Guardian of Forever at least in one of the beta canon novels was an artificial intelligence created by the Q, before they ascended into their next plane of existence. Consider the Guardian to be the final grand creation of beings nearing godhood, they have already done everything and can do anything, but going back to the every possible outcome of history would be a triumph for their civilization. At least, it's how I see the Guardian, the final great creation of a god-like race. John de Lancie's Q even mentioned it as "at least our ancestors knew how to build things", it's hard to get praise from the Q and the Guardian being their last material creation seems poetic.
“This Michael Burnham is right where she needs to be”, interesting phrasing, a reference to another Michael Burnham he came into contact in another time period, STO players understand.
One of the best episodes.
I love this sequence, it's a test to see if Georgiou has changed. She tried to make a difference and in the end did in a way. She still failed but she put the effort in and that;s what the GOF saw. If this were any other show she would have failed. I like that this show grasped change properly that it's about learning and attitude. Georgiou keeps her core personality but is exposed to a life where she doesn't have to be on guard against every single person so it opens her up to new experiences and she can let down her guard on occasion which lets her warm up to others.
Exactly. Its also what I am Working on Now in Philosophy and God. Its What People seem to not Understand. This is what God Judges us on, and what We are striving for. Change is not aout Dramatic results, but inner Realization. Apprach.
I'm curious what he meant about Saru saving others in that universe. Be interesting to see one more incusion into the mirror universe of the past and see what happens. Perhaps Saru joins up with Spock after his encounter with Prime Kirk and they start a revolution.
@@ReaverLordTonus - I'd prefer a les Misérables approach. I Know the Song of Angry men is Popular since The Musical but the Story is actually saying the Revolutionaries were Wrong. Change does not occur by Replacing Inflexible Law with unbridled Lust and the Fires of Hatred. Change occurs when You Love, and are Kind, an Forgive.This is Why Javier Who represented The law, as in Old Testament Law of Moses, could not be appeased. He is Justice, and law, and order, but not Compassion, or Forgiveness. The law is unforgiving. But The Law is not Evil. The Revolutionaries are those Who reject the Strict Nature of The Law, but carry it to the extreme of rejecting it. They are carried away by their Passions, and Destroy themselves int he End if they do Succeed in Revolutions. It is like choosing to throw yourself into the Col of the Woods in Winter, or choosing to Burn the Woods down. You could instead build a Fire in a Fireplace. At First in a Camp. Then a Hut. Then a House.
It is not good to be too Cold, but not good to be too Hot either.
Passion is Good, in the sense meant here, and so is Law, but not Alone.
We must learn to Control the Fire, and to Respect The law, but not be Slaves to it either.
The Problem is, You want Geirgeu, who learned to Reject the Fire of Her heart being her Master, to Once More sink into letting Fire Rule Her.
Revolutionaries Seize by Force. They make No inner Change. Either in others or in themselves.
No, She'd be better being a New Spiritual Leader, as it were.
A New Buddha, or New Prophet, or New Guru, or New whatever You wish to Call Her. Be this Literally, by becoming a sort of Religious Leader, or more Broadly, by Embracing the Role in some other Social Capacity. But Real Change is not found in Revolutionaries, but in the Path of peace.
Knowing what she had went through that got her to the point where she is now, when she asks if she could bring Micheal it jokes me up every time. After all this time, she's finally TRULY not alone, and now she has to go to once again not be alone and to make it all the more painful, it's the other version of her daughter, who also doesn't want to have to say goodbye to another version of her Captain who she DEEPLY loved and admired.
Man say what you will about this show but in comparison to what disney did with star wars we got gold.
Watching Phillipa leave WAS very sad 😥 BUT expected!!!!!!!! Things have a way of working out and maybe she'll return IN her own unique way!!!!!!!!!! Wishing her lotsa GOOD luck!!!!!!!!!
Maybe at least a cameo for the final season or something, but at least, hopefully, we'll still get section 31...
I do hope if we're staying in the future, we will get more about the temporal war and finish what to me was enterprise's series long storyline
This is fabulous.
I AM THE GUARDIAN OF FOREVER. I would love to have that as my phone ringtone just as It sounded on the original star trek episode.
Imagine if william shatner played him i like lt brass though
Oh, THAT would have been the piéce de resistance!
But CBS-StarTrek won't have anything to do with Shatner now. They won't let him near it. They'd rather CGI and twice reboot Nimoy than have Shatner.
oh yes, and he could be with Edith Keeler!
Shatner has Twitter disorder. People poke him and he comes out anti trans and hating fans who gatekeepers
@@STho205 And they do it for good reasons. Shatner had his time and place, but we have now moved on. Only Shatner haven't.
Could Phillipa be the creator of Section 31? I mean, Section 31 is the most Terran Organization in Star Trek.
She could have. The name section 31, was give to the organization by the original federation charter back in enterprise. However, the organization probably did exist before then.
She is in the 31st century. Maybe that's where section 31 got their name???
@@johnburla the door can take her to any time.
@@PsychCaptain
Yes; I said maybe the guardian sent her back in time far enough to found section 31; and she named it that, because she was in the 31st century at the time.
Per ENT, Section 31 was first created via the United Earth Starfleet charter, Article 14, Section 31 and was definitely actively conducting operations by the 2140s and 2150s. So if she's truly going back to the beginning, that would suggest yet another early prequel.
"Getting weighed" probably has two meaning. Either as an acceptable carry-on luggage to store in the upper bin, or by going the route of ancient Egyptian mythology where the gods judged the dead by placing their hearts on a scale.
Why I'm getting a lot of "It's A Wonderful Life" vibe here, with Georgiou is George Bailey and Carl is Clarence, and he is sent with a mission to show Georgiou that she has a different and better path in whichever universe she ends up next (aka her own Trek series).
I saw a bit of "A Christmas Carole." Where the Ghost of Christmas Past shows her, her life. And now she has no interest in returning to that life.
@@filippofittipaldi8050 Good observation, I agree!
And Q is returning too: John de Lancie reveals he will return as Q in a future Trek series, twitter.com/startrekucast/status/1340620438205050880
Even an atrocious vile personality can gain meaning from insights into themselves that prompt wiser decisions for the better. Only another who is constant with beliefs and actions has a chance of gaining the trust of the other.
0:16 - oh! Nice little Star Trek Enterprise nod
I hope she gets sent to the time she gets to interact with the strange new worlds crew at some point
By what that gurdian mean is that he will be sent to a time where warp technology is yet to be discovered cause there are two conclusion about the mirror universe it either started in a time of a roman empire existed or it started when Cochrane killed the vulans and took the survey ship.
That's what I thought...I'm guessing that its First Contact between Terrans and Vulcans
But then again, Archer said the empire existed for what...thousands of years? Or did Archer say centuries? Which indicates that it could be the Roman empire
My guess is that the Roman Empire never fell which evolved into the Terran Empire when they spread all over the Earth
@@Dseagles14 I believe Terran Captain Archer did give a hint to us that the Terran Empire is an extension of the Roman Empire
You understand the implication? That the Mirror Universe is actually an alternate universe with a different quantum state? Carl said that Georgiou was going to a time when the prime universe and the mirror universe were still aligned. So at some point in the past, that changed. An event happened with different outcomes in the two universes, and that set the two universes on different trajectories.
This is consistent w/the 7th season TNG episode where Worf encountered multiple alternate universes with different timelines sequentially. In each universe he entered, the characters were mostly the same, with a critical historical event in their pasts where every subsequent event happened differently.
I want to know what event in the past caused the two universes to diverge. It must have been pre-Star Trek Enterprise, since the flag on the moon in the mirror Universe wasn't the Stars and Stripes but that of a sword and the Earth on it.
They said that the 2 universes had drifted so far apart by the 32nd century that there hadn't been any crossings in centuries. The time that they came from would probably be sufficient for Georgiou's survival since the two universes were more closely aligned. It was only when they traveled into the future that there was a problem.
Spock, Kirk and the gang met this thing back in TOS. Back then it was basically a big time travel joyride/vacation portal.
Well, like Carl said , "back in those days it was like sure, come on through.. just don't change history'.. then he was starting to be used for evil..so he disappeared
I feel like they could have used the transporters to exchange her atoms with the current universe' atoms. you had them create 2 rikers after all
That event is pure luck, when Riker is imprison by the Cardasian they tried to recreated it and away fails
That's like... A years-long process with less than 5% chances of success. Can't exchange the atoms immediately because it's replacing her body but what happens to the mind within the brain? Not to mention the quantum signatures of the matter that composes her is from the mirror universe. Exchanging that with atoms from the prime is simply asking like, "Hey resurrect prime Georgiou by turning the emperor into her."
Doesn't that apply to just using the transporter just once?
Phillipa was one of the best characters in that series, and you can see that Michelle just relished playing her. I know that a move has been mooted, but I'd love to see her in a future series. Perhaps a spin-off?
It's my theory that the New Star trek Online Season Reflections may bring Philippa to the 25th century in the game.
It's a doorway... you can't stand in a doorway all your life.
Loved gorgiou her accent was perfrect for the role
I just heard the Last of the Mohican’s Theme in this episode.
Q was in a desert Saloon with the other Q and they were bored of seeing the 'circle' replay itself
Thats why they “cut” the O and result in Q.
This is a touching scene, but it also feels very “The Good Place”y 😄
Well this answers alot of questions. I just wish we got to see what time period Georgio was sent back to.
probably where her Section 31 show take place
@@annguyen-tr3ne I understand that, I just wish we got a look at what time period. You know the time period of Pike, or Kirk.
@@michaelfowler2603 in between the picard and kirk would be nice but the possibilities are endless
@@Zenth93 I don't think she will be sent back to the time of Picard. She will either be sent to either time of Pike or Kirk.
Should be first contact, where it's all began
Time Gods are snappy dressers. Love the bowler hat.
She will be the one to start Section 31. The Mirror Universe will be erased canonically. Philippa will stop Zevran Cochran from killing the Vulcans. eventually leading that Mirror Universe to become the Prime Universe. Section 31 will exist to counter the federation's high ideals, and as a safeguard against that weakness, because it is needed.
That's a long stretch!
Nah the Terran Empire predates Zefram Cochrane. A successor if the Roman Empire. Also Terrans are almost are different species due to being hyper aggressive and brightness tolerance.
@@reddyredwolf3931 I believe that the beginning of the Terran empire was Cochrane. Everything before him was just normal human history that we have today. The mirror universe began with the shooting of the Vulcans. That is likely where Georgiou is being sent.
@@MalcrowAlogoran Watch the A Mirror Darkly intro ua-cam.com/video/sfbsZRbwbJ4/v-deo.html
The Moon landing is not American but Terran. Terran culture descended from Rome. Mirror Mirror had Terrans and Mirror Spock perform the Roman salute. Mirror Archer refered to the gods in his speech on the ISS Avenger. Discovery Mirror Universe episodes confirm the Terran Empire is a continuation of Rome.
It's always been my opinion the Terran Empire is what was created when Edith Keeler didn't die
This scene is one of the best in all of Star Trek.
I have to say Michelle yole's performance has improved a lot in this season comparing to the previous 2.
I enjoyed scenes with her in this season quite a lot.
Too bad that her character's story has to depart here from Michael's .
I do hope we could still see more of phillipa gergeou in the future seasons.
"When you're ready."
The guy from CSI Vegas was excellent! (Paul Guilfoyle)
Bowler hat, trench coat he's dressed like the presence from DC comics.
that would be cool wouldn't it?
Shame the Guardian of Forever didn't mention his history with Spock.
He insulted Michael exactly the same way.
'You should really get up to speed with modern technology' 'My answer is simply as your level of understanding makes possible' :D :D :D
"and he'll save others, a lot of them." Wait so that wasn't an illusion or simulation, a new alternate timeline was created that will branch off and continue with the repercussions of what she did? Be interesting to see the results.
So she could pop up on Strange New Worlds
Looking forward to seeing Philippa in Section 31. BTW, in DS9's Mirror Universe episodes, the subjugated peoples were just as horrible as the Terrans. For example, Mirror Major Kira, was a bisexual nyphomaniac. And that was her good points. She was also murderous and sadistic. Poor Garak was reduced to kissing ass in both realities. 😛
Prime Garak would have them all killing each other, then make himself Emperor. The only ass Garak was kissing was probably Bashir, but the flirting, romancing, and chocolates fell on deaf ears.
When the mirror and the prime universe was aligned? So she may be going to prevent the mirror universe from being formed. No Empire; no murdered Vulcans at First Contact... wait, no super sexy Kira. Hold on, let's think this through.
...well it's off to SECTION 31!
I count the days (years)...
2023
Did anyone notice the super subtle The Doors reference ... 'just walk on through to the other side'
Jim meant that to be walk from dark into the light. So, yes, good analogy.
SNW Should do more on G.F.E Where it came from who made it?? Did the Q make it ??
Jim brass as a interdimensional protector just fkn awesome
Yeah, it's amazing where Jim Brass can turn up.
I theorize that Phillipa went back in time and became the original Phillipa that we see at the beginning of Discovery.
No,she travelled far earlier than that,at least before the first contact,for that's where two timelines seperated.
Thought that too. But it felt more like a feverish nightmare.
Welcome to Marvel Cinematic ‘Universe’ Philippa. #Shang-Chi
Maybe others have pointed this out, but Carl seems to be dressed in an outfit reminiscent of what men wore in the 1930s, the era McCoy, Kirk and Spock visited when they went through the Guardian.
Karl chose clothing from 1930. Which is the year that Kirk+Spock+McCoy were sent to in 'City On Edge Of Forever'.
I love the guardians actor, but I can’t stop thinking about William Shatner in the role.
Just one continuity error. When Kirk and Spock found the Guardian, Kirk asked “What is it?”. And the Guardian said that it was waiting for a question for billions of years. Clearly if Discovery is asking questions, that can’t be right.
They are now in Kirk's future so that is not an issue. But the temporal cold war started before Kirk.
hes mistery dialogue, his intentions, his voice .. his arguments ..perfect role for prefect acting.. does any body else feels Q was also needed ?
What makes you think he isnt a Q? :p
Nah. We still don't know who created The Guardian, and we don't know who were Q prior to their ascension. I wouldn't be surprised the the makers of the Guardian were engineers belonging to the same race that later became Q. He controls time and space in a similar way to Q, but also - as we see here - he has a conscience, which tells me that he predates Q by far.
@@frodobaggins3974 Part of the Beta Canon books says that Q before their ascension were the builders of the Guardian of Forever, they used highly advanced technology to explore space/time until they became Gods due to something "the new era". Our Q, de Lancie, was the one who asked the last question of the Guardian when he was younger commenting his ancestors built the Guardian in appreciation, signalling the Guardian's construction and abilities as a wonder of his own people's distant past.
I like that concept, Q had to have evolved from mere mortals at some point and developed technology. It's like human beings nowadays marveling at the Pyramids, the Great Wall, or Stonehenge. We no longer need or use these places, but they are monument to those who came before us. To me that is what the Guardian could be, an evolutionary sign post of how far the Q had to go and still even further before they became eventually.
@@time391 Really? I didn't know. But a similar concept was explored in Stargate, with an ancient race, probably the first one to evolve - at least in the known universe - built a lot of interesting tech, and then moved on to another plane of existence, leaving their constructs behind for younger races to play with. And to be honest - I remember a similar concept in other good series, many of which predates Discovery. Babylon 5 for example. But yeah - Q must have evolved somehow to become what they were in TNG or Voyager. Evolution takes time, and I guess at some point of their history they started mastering time itself, potentially exploring other dimensions / realities. That's when The Guardian could have been built. And then imagine - if you have all the energy that your galaxy can provide at your disposal, you understand the reality to the level where you can travel anywhere / anytime, and have no natural predators hunting you, what's next on the list? How does a civilisation progress from this point? One way is to seek accension. Leave the physical form. Become Q. By the way, the concept is actually ancient and originates form Chinese Taoism. Maybe that's why writers find it so attractive.
No need to abuse Q as well.
Awesome Captain Brass lol
So this is what Jim Brass was doing after his retirement from the LVPD... ;)
With the concept of a higher self, 6 millions years in the future. We all have this.
And this was immediately followed by her praising Michael as the best person in the history of ever, if I recall.
I get it. She has to go back to the 23rd Century. And that is the ONLY possible cure for her condition. She jumped universes but the result of being flung forwards to the 32nd century was too much for her cells to cope with! Basically she had lost their stability. The only way out is for her to go back to the 23rd Century. A year or so! After the Discovery's disappearance from there. The Temporal Cold War was 200 years earlier. And the Guardian of Forever absolutely disliked what the Sphere Builders and some others did!
Is it confirmed that her show is taking place just after the disappearance of Discovery? As he said she's going back to a time when the two universes where allined, which would be before First Contact.
I like how they included something from the original Star Trek into this scene
You're supposed to, but the concept is totally different and rather cheapened the Guardian.
True there are few writers that are operating at Ellison's metaphysical imagination in this age. In the original draft the Guardian was 7 Guardians (a council of time) and the portal was just their device. Roddenberry's crew condensed them to a voiceover and the portal being The Guardian.
I watched this sequence of S3 and this was done as a backdoor pilot like Assignment Earth. It was contrived just to explain a new series, and Carl is not as well done as the pan temporal character in MIB3 which he is lifted from. A big clue is The Prime universe and The Terran universe...thats fan-fiction lingo. Why would one timeline be the "Prime"?
In the original, the Guardian always knew how time went. Kirk and company was there so Edith had died. She died because Kirk fell in love with her and took her to see a Clark Gable movie...after Spock was given just enough information to know "Edith Keylor must die"
Why did the Social Worker cross the road...to get to the other side. Why was she on the other side...she was on a date.
The first episode of CSI he is saying the suspect is saying "soddi" some other dude did it. Nice intro.
She's getting a spin off.
Which time is he sending her back to? First Contact?
I think it is going to be really far back in the time. Maybe Roman times.
@@cormacmacsuibhne2867 If what Terra Archer said is true, then Terra Empire is an extension of Rome.
@@liamloxley1222 would they be? I mean, during the Roman Era, or prior to that, they are the same universe. Just like, prior to the mining ship, Kelvin and Prime are the same universe
@@liamloxley1222 okay, I see what you are saying. My understanding is that the universe is the same until an event takes place, your argument is that they are separate universes that just happen to be duplicates until the event takes place.
She can do a lot of damage at first contact if she does interfere
Isn’t interesting the idea that geourgio or even burnham herself at that moment realizing she’s going back in time could have actually beamed back on the ship and looked at the past records to find geourgio and her accomplishments before she was sent back. That would be such a mind mess.
Anubis is a lot more likeable this time around.
All as it should be...
"When you're ready...just walk on through."
And she asked that Michael come with her. 🥲
They're giving the emperor her own show.
It's Detective Brass CSI Las Vegas!