Historical Chinese lossing millions of men in a single battle: DECISIVE VICTORY Now I understand why does graphic designers are in the marketing department in the first place.
I love how people at this point preordered 3+ Paradox games and always were duped of a good game on launch, yet they still pre order the next game, definition of insanity.
@@RK-cj4oc I would disagree, CK3 was extremly bare bones at launch, it might not have been as bad as Imperator Rome or now Vicky 3 but still by far not finished, especially compared to CK 2, honestly if Vicky 3 had a good war systme it would have been on par with the CK3 launch.
@@SpudgunOfficial that's true, I don't argue with that. Personally it does feel that vicky 3 is the catalyst of the sudden peak in interest in the open genre
@@SpudgunOfficial true, but now they have received a new boost of energy. I can't wait for OpenVic2 so I can finally get to make some mods... even if it takes me years.
I think Johan might be the only person at Paradox who ever developed any sense of humility after releasing dogshit products. I remember starting a thread a while back about how disappointed I was in the game, and someone made the "review bombing" accusation and Johan came in to say "As someone who released the poorest reviewed product on steam, every review is legitimate, even if the developer is sad about it or feels it's undeserved", which honestly took some balls to do. The rest of the company seems willfully ignorant of any criticism at all and insistent that they must never at any point grow a vision for the game, and instead pointlessly toodle around with 3D models like they do CK3.
I still think CK2 is better than CK3. 3 is just so fking boring. Its like EU4 with characters. There’s none of the little details that made CK2 so lovable.
@@BocchiSensei Lol, it was because he was paid to like it. He is the very definition of a shill for Paradox. I don't entirely blame him because he relies on that connection to paradox for his job, but it doesn't not make him a shill at the end of the day. I say this as someone who does generally like his videos, so I am no hater by any degree. Just calling it as I see it.
The thing that really bums me out about Vic3 is how the Vic2 community waited so long and so patiently for a sequel, then when it finally comes out it's a big middle finger to those people that waited so long and they're all told to just go away because the game they waited so long for isn't meant for them. Then when Vic2 vets went online to voice their hurt and confusion, Paradox and the new Vic3 community met them with hostility and told them to get lost and go cry about it in a corner. What did the Vic2 community do to deserve this? Why did Paradox decide to do this to them? I used to buy Paradox games right away on launch but after seeing what happened to the Vic2 community, I don't do so anymore. Now I regard Paradox with suspicion and caution. Which is a shame, because I loved so many of their games for so long, just for things to end this way. It's sad.
@@wotanvonedelsburg1610 They are. Like another group of fans is keeping Imperator afloat and steadily improving it. But you know, "if you want it, do it yourself" in not the best attitude for game developers.
If you really want to know why paradox did this, it was because, VIc 2 unfortunately was a very niche game. Paradox was after money, and calculated that making a game like Vic 2 would not appeal to the most amount of people, so they transformed it into the slop that is Vic 3 for "general audiences"
"The studio and the community met them with hostility and told them to get lost and go cry about it in a corner." Basically what happened to WoW, too. Dark times.
Unironically I think Imperator deserves another DLC than Vic 3. Fixing the war and economy system is gonna be way harder than removing Mana in Imperator. Shit was actually pretty easy for them to do. Imperator is so close to being a really good game now after 2.0 but the devs from it were forced to work on Vic 3. A fate worse than death.
@@scoobydoobers23 and what would be the point ? There’s no Great War mechanics anyway. No way for nations to join the war after it started. Looking at you, Italy. Ottomans. Japan. Arab revolt. America.
The irony being that the "war system" they do have is better suited for WW1 than for any other war in the period. It fails in the one context it should have worked.
WH3's success comes down to the release of the immortal empires campaign, something they've built up to over years. It's basically every faction from the entire trilogy on one massive map. Most people were waiting on IE too, so judging it's launch isn't entirely fair. You'd see the same for WH2 and the release of mortal empires, which is the same thing but for game 1 and 2 factions.
@@spcsandbag6517 Most people quit because the Realm of Chaos campaign is one of the worst Total War campaigns ever created, but people knew what they would be getting with Immortal Empires (i.e. ME but bigger) so a lot of people returned.
I have spent over $80 on Vic 3 and have spent over 100 hours in the game. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t like the game a little bit, but holy shit there really is no flavor in the game. Even if they spend the next 2-3 years slowly fixing the game mechanics it will still be so fucking boring to play - all countries play the same and have no actual rp elements. Ive been coping for a while now but recently it really does seem like it’s actually over. Also bonus meme: go check out any of OPB’s Vic3 videos - the game has no flavor so he spends half of the video describing his headcanon rp interpretation of his country so viewers don’t fall asleep.
The only way to make Vic 3 good at all, even if you look at it not from my and probably your standpoint of a Vic 2 fan but just not monotonous and with an actual war system, is to gut large sections of the game and completely rebuild them. Is paradox really going to invest the time and labor to make essentially a new game wearing the Vic 3 skin? They may try to an extent but honestly I can't see this going anywhere else than a half-baked revival attempt that was killed by lack of interest and funds. Maybe they add a ton of flavor, events, etc for some nations like in some nation specific updates or dlc, maybe they're working on that right now in the expansion. So far all we've gotten that I can think of as of 1.2 is different flags for Germany and Italy depending on who formed them. I haven't seen the alternate flags though because I gave up trying to do it, I got tired of building the 1954th coal mine. Paradox has a LOT of work ahead of them if they are going to save this game
@@EnSayne987 I mean, they did with stellaris, but that was a brand new game set in a radically diferent enviroment than paradox was used to, so I just can't see them doing it again
@@darkithnamgedrf9495 Stellaris was the one exception but they can't do that for every other game they release without eventually going bankrupt. Then again their favorite cash cow EU4 is still raking in dlc money so maybe they can. Either way I think if pdx decides they need to cut some development to concentrate on new projects, vic3 will be one of the first on the chopping block. I give it 3-4 years tops
I just wish that the vic3 dev team would get a lead dev like the eu4 devs got. For context, the eu4 dev team after the disaster that was the Leviathan dlc, hired a modder called BigBoss who already had a lot of experience in eu4 modding. With the help of the mentioned modder,they made, in my opinion, one the best dlcs from release, and they have already announced another dlc which looks to be very promising! I think this just shows that hiring people who know the game and the franchise can be as good as people with years of experience.
@@erketyrettile4734 he made a similiar mod to missions expaneded called Flavor Universalis, which has very big similiarities with the newest eu4 update
The fact that Victoria 3 is in a similar situation as Stellaris is extremely ironic considering (if i'm not mistaken) that the director is the same of Stellaris at launch, Martin Anward (aka Wiz). He left stellaris to work on a different project (now we know which one) and almost every single element of Stellaris that was made during his time has been removed and\or reworked.
To be fair, no matter the head Stellaris has been a clusterfuck since release in terms of devs constantly changing their mind about the fundamentals of how they want their game to actually work, it's like EUIV on meth.
@@j.murphy4884 True but it does look like they their vision has been pretty consistent in the last couple of years which means it only took them.... 5 years to figure out what stellaris is. Jokes aside i think this can be accepted because stellaris is a completely new IP, a sequel should be easier in comparison.
the changes to only have hyperlane FTL really helped make stellaris an interesting game but tiles and the general economy rework was the thing that truly fixed the core mechanical issues, after that they've focused on making diplomacy actually interesting and adding more depth to the empire building itself. It'll probably EU4 itself to death with feature bloat eventually now that they have two different teams working on it
i have around 140 hours on the game, but to be honest, it’s because i flooded the game with mods, having 26 just to be able to play the thing. i literally cannot imagine playing the base game for fun
I had to tap out at 62ish. Around 40 on the base game mostly with a couple dozen mods like you, then about 20 in the full 1.2 update with no mods. It's honestly the worst strategy game I have ever played.
@@utewbd i’m starting to reach the same conclusion because every time i play i get either bored or annoyed that the ai did some dumb shit. i’ll finish my italy campaign i got going and i’ll make my final judgement on if i want to continue, that gameplay is already painful
@@michael120. yeah, I'm just hoping the first dlc is good, otherwise I'll just play quake and vic 2 til open vic 2 comes out. It's sad how terrible vic 3. They could just ripped off the prequel, do some QoL changes and a graphics update. But no. Enjoy your cookie clicker.
Honestly incredible that Vic3 has a total lifetime of about 140 hours WITH mods, meanwhile older titles still have boundless amounts of interactions and content to explore. Mods account for only half my vic2 hours of playtime (2k hours total), and I haven’t even tried mods for ck2 yet bc I still have yet to explore all the different religions/cultures/ societies that are in the game as is atm ( not to mention shattered world or alt history starts)
One big issue I had was governments, government in victoria 2 was vital, a bad election or revolution could set you back years if not decades, you were actively fighting your government. Victoria 3? Push button :)
@@nickshaffer8115 y'know, that's an actual valid criticism of VicII - there's pretty much no context where I wouldn't want [INSERT REFORM HERE] maxed out because it just benefits me. With the possible exception of minimum wage.
@@nickshaffer8115 I think there's more variety because you can build buildings yourself and pops will overthrow the government if the interest group there in don't like the government but radicals won't because only interest groups revolt
I haven't pre-ordered a game since 2014 (simcity), still going strong. No hype can truly push me over that edge. I have seen to many shit storms that it just slides off of me.
Personally I think if Victoria 3 was created as cold war game it would have received much better attention. The era matches their vision for what the game is supposed to be much better. I don't know if they thought a Victoria would be better for marketing but as soon as I played the leak that's how I felt.
The gameplay would still be boring, tedious and bland which would kill off the playerbase just as fast. If anything it would certainly have sold less as a new IP because it didn't have the Victoria title to get Vic 2 fans like me going. I did pre-order the game myself because I became fooled and convinced it would be good and I am a Vic 2 fan so that played a large part. If it was a new IP I literally might not have even heard of it or forgotten it by now. Maybe the people that did still wind up checking it out would like it slightly more because at least it's not a Victoria game in this state but honestly I think it would have just met its dev death faster than it likely will now in like 2-3 years imo
Victoria was created entirely for multiplayer and streaming The whole game plays like that Uts basically a different game when you play mp Its awesome... well, when its not desyncing all the time And before 1910s before laggfest takes over
Some years back Paradox had a cold war game "East vs West", I think it was based on Hearts of Iron 3, but as a standalone game. But they decided to axe it pretty close to planned launch.
@@EnSayne987 thats cause youbonly play sp and cant read what i wrote In mp vic 3 becomes literally different game Protectionism becomes to strongest trading law, rushing being liberal is not viable anymore Markets and the world Everything becomes alive There are trade wars where players invade each other markets, flooding them with cheap goods Making you embargo the person But embargo isnt just embargos Embargos are very expensive in influence Meaning, you womlnt be able tl have many vassals, and many allies, members of customs unions, meaning its way harder to keep infamy low (and it lowers slower because of low excess influence) Prestige ranking suddenly becomes important, because you really dont wanna be paying those horrible interest rates you get as being unrecognized in the mp Meaning there is less of deficit spending/investing Gl going into wars/being attacked while paying those debts even with good interest rates Mp really resurrects this game into a living thing Only problems really are bad stability and desyncs Git gud l2p
the real things that scares me about comparing Vicky 3 to Stellaris is that it means Vicky 3 will be an entirely different goddamn game every 6 months when they release the next update or DLC
Stellaris was a completely different game, but the biggest thing stellaris has on its favor its the fact that it is the ONLY paradox game you can buy years after release and you are able to play dozens of hours just with the base game, buying DLC ends up being just for flavour, which allows you to pick and choose any DLC you feel like without missing out on core mechanics(which you always get as a free update, although some are quite basic but not hindering the gameplay) or QoL improvments(which you get on free updates). This allowed the game to get a very solid niche amount of players which consistently buy a DLC every once in a while instead of some people not wanting to pay for the base game and then being forced to buy all the DLC, like EU4 or HOI4 as an example, this going to far as to stop you from playing mods that use any DLC mechanic
Very true. I was so upset when they changed how borders grow. For a good solid year or two, I was a firm believer that it had gotten worse since launch. It is definitely a much better game now, but it is constantly in flux, even now.
@Zaiko LeBolsh the issue with Paradox and why it would ultimately doom the company is the fact that they rely too much on their dlc model. Even I, a previous eu4 fan and current stellaris player, am afraid to touch their other IPs, because I don't want to dish out 200-300 bucks for the full experience. Now that their new ips are also straight up horrible from launch, they can't expect us to rely on their unholy monetisation system to wait out the "good" stuff.
One note about steam's two hour refund window: they do sometimes allow refunds over that period. Presumably they don't allow much over it, but it is possible to go somewhat over.
The two hour refund window is specifically for the no-questions asked refunds. Beyond that, you need a valid reason to refund the game. Something like a game-breaking bug that stops you from finishing the game 15 hours in would still likely be granted; Especially after a patch or two.
Something that was really bad on launch for Stellaris was the Border system, where you didn't actually have a border, but just a "border" that grew with station tech, because any AI could just colonize inside your empire's borders.
@@nox5555 funny thing is they just ripped it off from Endless Space, who actually did it somewhat well. Not to mention I actually preferred the old border system which allowed for much more interesting scenarios (three empires owning 3 planets in the same system).
altho it was indeed confusing, not being able to get iconic things like having two worlds colonized by opposing empires in the same contested system was a straight up downgrade.
uhmm, there is something you should know about. the 2 hours refund are not definite. if you can explain why you played the game for longer but still want a refund, you can get it really easily. i refunded a game with 12 hours before that made me just try to get it to work for like 8 hours and was after everything just a buggy bad mess. so you could have gotten a refund for sure! something to keep in mind :D
Indeed, the 2 hours max is for a refund without explanation. If you can give a valid reason for why you spend 8 hours playing it and then still want a refund they often give it to you. I myself refunded a game that i spend like 4 hours in because at like halfway through the game I encountered a bug that crashed the game everytime. Asked for a refund through their support service, explained what happened,l and said i did play for over 2 hours, they asked for proof of te bug so I did have to make a video of like 2 mins. and sended it to them. Refunded in like 4 minutes after that. I think this is reasonable as for some games, 2 hours isnt enough to really form an opinion, grand strategy games come to mind, but sometimes buggy games as well.
@@eriktheos6022 steam is great in that regard. they are like the amazon of games when it comes to customer service. I had many great experiences with them in the past and no bad ones.
As someone who enjoys vic3, I still think if they don’t change the war system there will be long-term issues. I’m hopeful things will get better. (Also we need more flavor and laws tbh)
I absolutely loved when Spud started comparing Stellaris with Vic 3 - the former's music is just so good it instantly gave me chills and the game transformed tremendously with each update, but sadly for Vic 3 Stellaris had most of the systems and mechanics we enjoy today at least in some form prior to updates and DLCs making them fun, while Vic 3's structures are VERY basic, especially in warfare, so I'm not sure PDX will really revamp them to the extent needed
I can't speak for Stellaris's development as I've barely played it but Vic 3 is a mediocre game on a rotten framework. They could add on new features and do some reworking overtime in typical paradox fashion, as they have begun to do with 1.2, but that is by far not enough to turn this mess into a good game. The only way Vic 3 can make a comeback is a major overhaul that changes much of the framework, then whatever they build on top of that might make it something quality
@MikeProductions1000 exactly. You'd almost think stellaris is in a different genre, definitely a different game if it weren't for similar ui aesthetics
It's so vindicating going on the Vic3 subreddit and seeing top posts complaining about the war system and general anti-fun philosophy of the game. Yeah, that's what we've been saying from the beginning, but you shouted the critics down and called them racist and too unsophisticated to understand your precious economic simulator.
Paradox new games look appealing the first time you play it, but after an hour or two you can see that it's empty, no flavour, no replayability. Games like Ck3 or Vic3 are on mobile-games tier of fun and interesting gameplay
Idk Vic3 feels exactly like Vic2 in terms of flavor, with a better economy (WARNING! That was an opnion on the internet, please don't cry!). I don't know anyone whose playing basegame vic2, everyone plays with HPM, because the base game is barebones, and that's largely the same for this title, everyone is playing with VFM.
"Lord's Year", or "Year of the Lord", actually. There is no "our" in there. The "our" is usually added by people who want to pretend that you can't use AD without being a believing Christian.
Although I do, as everyone does from time to time, enjoy a good vic2 MP playthrough (especially ones as well-narrated as yours) I'm finding myself enjoying these statistical analysis-based journalistic style videos far more for whatever reason. Keep up the stellar work and I hope to see more of this content in the future.
It's so hard to find youtubers that aren't just straight up shills nowadays. You are the only person that actively says anything anti this new crap. The only other one I've found that will even say anything remotely negative about the current state of Paradox games is Count Cristo, and even then he skirts around with his language.
Pretty well-informed, and a good watch to boot. I really hope vic3 actually does get better and the devs actually support the game to make it better, but as things are looking it really does seem like a "love her and leave her" situation. Still got my fingers crossed that things improve, despite the awful release.
Paradox seems committed to giving out more free patches to fix things. This isn't Sega EA or 2k this is a studio that at least cares about community backlash once they get it imperitor is the only game they have abandoned in a decade doubt it'd help their share price to abandon one of their big 4
Great video. Also: Don't pre-order ANY game from ANYBODY, EVER. Or not, it's not my money. It's just that it never made any sense whatsoever to do so. It's a leftover from the old days of physical copies where you didn't want to be the guy who returned from GameStop empty-handed because the shipment had been cleared out. Newsflash: Digital copies don't run out. Ever.
I feel like a lot of questions that people have could be answered with “money” such as the game awards being in December. If they wanted to be fair they’d do it the next year but they need to be able to sell games for Christmas that say “game of the year”
Its interesting you bring up the stellaris comparison since stellaris at launch is actually a different game to what it is now. Not just in the lol paradox DLC is a must way. The way pops are handled, borders, hyperlanes being the only way to travel now, fuckin alloys existing now, ect. Maybe Vic 3 will go a similar way and become a different game in 2 years time. Im unsure what the first DLC for vic 3 will be but my hopes arent high since first paradox dlc tends to be meh at best (with stellaris again bucking the trend by having a pretty good first real DLC). I didnt buy Vic 3 because I saw the garbage fire miles away so im gratful for that ill be able to pick up the game for 10 bucks when its actually a full game in a year and halfs time or so. Ill never understand preordering just wait to buy the game when it comes out if its good but then again the average person doesnt care. Also for warhammer 3 im not even gonna look it up but I assume that player jump was immortal empires coming out. Warhammer 3 came out without it and if you wanna know what it is it added the grand campaign map and the ability to actually play as all the warhammer 1 and 2 factions. I dont even know how to compare it to paradox. Imagine if EU5 came out and at launch the only playable factions were Russia, Scandanavia and Ming and you had to wait to play as everyone else. And own EU 3 and 4.
Isnt that because stellaris was released under one director, then another came and basically switched everything around(much to the annoyance of most players) and then the last few dlcs were just SALVAGE IT SALVAGE IT!
If my memory serves me, the wh3 bump was immortal empires, one of the most ambitious, technically free dlcs ever. I say technically free because, what it did was combine each of the previous games into one massive map, so long as you owned them. They then dropped even that and said you can still play it, just not as the races you don't own. Overall, wh3 is a surprisingly good comparison to make. Fans pretty well recognize that the game will be entirely made through future content and mods, so time is in its favor. Vic 3 will have to take this route if it wants to survive.
Excellent video. As someone who plays Paradox games since 2011, I know all too well about their trademark quarter-baked approach. I never buy these games full price, that's what the studio deserves for betraying their fan base time and time again. Don't be bothered by the haters mate, they haven't learned how bad things actually are 🐸
Not gonna lie at first I was a vic3 defender but after playing it for only about 50 hours I was so done with the awful way war worked everything else I could deal with it but fuck me the war sucks.
Not a Vic fan in general (never really put in the hours). But one game that Paradox seems to neglect is ck3. Ck2 was my favorite for many years, so seeing a lack of content (republics, nomads, fixing the crusades, etc) since 2020 is discouraging. Vic 3 and Ck3 are similar: paradox seems to ignore the success of the previous title.
A little anectode about Stellaris, the game director for it at launch was Henrik Fåhraeus, with whizz taking over after maybe a year or so. Ironically, he then proceded to curate the creation of IMO one of the worst DLCs in Paradox history, Megacorp (technically the DLC itself was fine, its the free patch that came along with that was the problem), which completely ruined the AI, performance, and pretty much half of the other mechanics present in the game at that time. So basically he came in, took a big smelly dump on Stellaris and then run off to start working on Vic 3. It literally took Stellaris 3 years and two game directors to recover to a state of being actually enjoyable again (and some people were actually sad that he left lmao). I haven't bought Vic 3 specifically because of him, and probably never will given its sorry state.
God megacorp on paper was so good, but the patch that it came with just straight up ruined the game for most people( myself included). The dlc was good, but if you didnt have it, go fuck yourself. I remember the forum being up in arms about it. Last few patches after that were purely focused on making the game playable at all. Stellaris is good now but it loses its replayablilty fast
I mean...sure? The new district system is essentially the old tile system but hidden under the different GUI with some improvements slapped on top of it. I guess it is still better because the old system was as basic as it gets, but it's not like the same result couldn't have been achieved with tiles.
Two hour refund window saw me playing as the UK going into a constant cycle of building tool factories to try lower the prices because I built like an additional 10 construction centres if I remember correctly
Honestly, for anyone who saw EUIV's launch condition, why would you be surprised to see another PI game released in a bare bones state? I was frankly shocked that HOIIV was actually a playable experience on launch. Well I only tried German, Britain, and Japan to be honest, but that's still clearing the low bar they've set for themselves in earlier games.
As we say about the Gaming Industry these days: “There’s no going back after what’s been done…” To the shills and those who cope with the present conditions they have embraced: Be my guest CA’s Total War Warhammer player base would agree that they detest a polar centric campaign map and would agitate the devs to make the Expansion DLC Immortal Empires an FLC with conditions in regards to ownership of games containing prior released races to be unlocked as a sort of race+faction flavor packs If Vic3 flunks in their Expansion release, it will be the new Total War Three Kingdoms/Thrones of Britannia game, but brought you by Paracucks Introactive
I preordered it but after watching Bokoen's pre release game play his reactions felt so fake and obvious (like they'd start making a little bit of money and just scream relentlessly about it) that I cancelled the preorder.
The moment i heard about "we are going to do something vastly differant from Vicky II" i was already suspicious. Paradox and innovations especially laterly was really a bunch of disapointment between bad updates for EU4 lack of good stuff CK3 DLC's being useless etc... I mean sequel to Vicky II even if changed and modernised brought me in, but frankly im surprised so many people bought the game despite most being also familial with Paradox games and KNOWS no paradox game has ever been released as a good game so waiting beyond the initial hype is like REQUIRED. Its really a good thing you didnt buy it ^^
@@Freedmoon44 "going different from our game" is the stupidest thing ever that they did. "Hey you like mario? well in the new game, we went in a completely new direction, its now a dating sim!"
@@ManCheat2 its Mario, it would WORK smh, especially because since it would be the first they would put in actual efforts. Mario isnt Paradox Considering how many type of mario games their are unless they call a dating sim the newest Mario kart or smt, they would smh succeed into making the game lol
@@Freedmoon44 Again... maybe you dont understand, so i will repeat it in more clearer terms... Sure there is mario kart right? But they didnt call it Super Mario Bros 2. They called it MARIO K A R T. This is trying to take the name and going in a completely different direction of what has been established and not stating it in the name. Imagine if you will, if you bought and preordered Super mario bros 2, thinking it would be like SMB1, ads showing mario in all of its teasers and so on, but when u boot up the game, its nothing like SMB1, its just fucking go kart racing.
Everyone looks at Victoria 3 and CK 3 wrong they're flavorless becasue they were released early because Imperitor bombed you can dig through their code and see a lot stuff that screams we were told release day was in a month all of a sudden
Ck2 and Vic2 were my favourite games of all time. Put thousands of hours into both. Pre-ordered CK3, tried to stay positive about the experience, but all the optimism in the world can't replace the soul they ripped out of Crusader Kings. I figured Vic 3 would be a slam dunk. For a game whose community was built on the niche and clunky mechanics, surely I imagined, they'd simply refine them. I told myself the new war system can't be THAT bad. Well now I have another new paradox title under 50 hours eating dust in my library. What happened at Paradox? I know they've never been known for strong releases, but at least they used to eventually make their games fun and playable.
This is a great video, my friend. I personally love Victoria 3, but absolutely value critics and critical views like yours. I’m very excited for the game’s future, and it will only get better if Paradox watches serious videos and critics like this one/you. Cheers!
I’ll just say, I enjoy Victoria 3 in its own way, as opposed to in direct comparison to Vicky 2. I also think that hoi4 was greatly helped in popularity with all the hoi4 content that is being produced
vic 3 rn just needs a reworked war system and some minor updates and the game will be amazing, no idea why they want to stick to this trash they call a war system that is in the game rn
@@mcsroom8930The war system is the main concern sure, but even then they will need to rework the economy, politics, diplomacy, navies. It just seems like everything is abstracted to hell, I think they honestly failed when they went with the more accessible and dumbed down version of Vic 2 design philosophy. Well, I call it a failure because the game is trash, they might see it differently from the 500.000 copies sold figure.
If you did, its great. The games do not need to be similar, but if its name vici3 it cant be other game. I mean if you buy a DOOM 3 do you expect that they will take away option to move, and for shooting you don't even need to press button, only move you camera towards enemy, and that's it you won. In current condition its not working at all. even with newest update. Basic mechanics and idea behind it does not work as intended to do so. i don't know how much you played but, can you really explain what is the difference between countries and laws in your campaign? do you really have a sandbox to fun with? i think that there are no real difference between countries, there are no real difference between what you are doing at all. its just demo version that shows that the game engine can render a trillion of unnecessary calculation just to show us buildings on the world map. About hoi4 even on the release, game was fun. and this is what games are intended to do. and if the game is FUN its amazing to promote this game. But if it don't, its just fake advertainment, which is, you know, can be classified as fraud, same as No mans sky on release.
@@hecatedraws i would say the economic system rn is fine as the new update fixed my major problem with it politics just need some falvor and diplomacy some fixes as there are some basic options that are missing, im counting navy with the war system
The thing is, we're making a comparation between a 2010 game and a 2023 one. Also, they sell you their new games as a service, if you want to really enjoy all the game mechanics you need to buy at least some DLC.
It might be good after 4 years and 3 dlcs, a standard paradox strategy, and we all knew it was gonna happen like this. Cause releasing a full and finished game is a thing of the past now I guess.
as a Hoi4 player the last dlc was a bit of a mess but the game is extremly fun to play for me and my friends and the stories it made were amazing, hoi4 and stellaris are what made me disscover this game genre and i fell in love with it, i love ck2 vic 2 eu4 hoi4 and stellaris, vic 3 to me is a boring mess that looks like a bad attempt of taking city skylines and applying a 1800s skin on to it and ck3 lost the charm of it predacesor for me atleast..
also the only time i ever pre ordered a paradox dlc was for hoi4 when i know the dlc is going to be the same price pre order or no pre order due to my love of hoi4 as a game because you get some extra bonus content for the same price
The issue with Vic3 is that theres nothing to do,honestly Vic2 too but at least vic2 has some mods and A FEW historical events,and a lot of good mods. Like the mexican-american war,formation of germany stuff,russia stuff and the opium wars. IN Vic3 90% of historical events dont fire or happend whatever and the game is still too early to be worth giving pdx money for the work of other people like i did for hoi4.
Vic 3 is in a strange position, most pdx games hinge on their first dlc, the major reason to pre order which you didn’t cover is to ensure the game comes out big game companies which pdx now falls under have a tendency to pull the plug on projects that don’t sell enough pre orders
Most paradox games don't hinge on their first dlc only one game did and it was already dying pulling 5k a month is enough to justify DLC sales to paradox ck2 was hovering at 2k quite a few times before it's life ended
What big game company pulled the plug after a game didnt receive enough pre order? If the game got close enough to get a pre order page on steam then they've already completed most of it and cant really afford to see 0 return on the project.
I mean, it's deeply ironic they copied the civilian part of HOI4 and not the warfare because it's literally a near textbook example of how to do automation of warfare well. (Well, the land battle part at least). I struggle to think what Vic3 does well tbh. I think I would rather have seen Victorias Secret, the visual novel instead at this point. (That was the game Martin always joked about working on)
Well HoI4 just has more and more mods that let you play what you want, also Warhammer 3 has a really large advantage that immortal empires is what people were waiting for, which is a game mode that lets you play in a map that is the combination of the maps of Warhammer 1, 2 and 3, and lets you play as any character you have access to from the past 2 games and their DLCs. So on top of being able to play a much larger game, you can play as characters you already like, with a lot of the improvements from Warhammer 3, and with full mod support with a community of modders that have been making amazing mods for Total War Games since forever ago, like Radious who always makes mods for every Total War game that adds extra units to fill the army rosters of different factions to make the game way more fun. Warhammer 3 is also not a large massive departure from Warhammer 2 since it is a franchise that has built up incremental improvements with each entry into the TW: Warhammer series.
That’s some well done investigative journalism there :) I did enjoy my first playthrough of Victoria 3 and got my hours out of it, but the state of release certainly made me very wary of PDX. Looking at the content-dry and flavorless state of CK3 after more than 2 years, the EA release of Victoria, and the steep price increase of their DLC’s across the board, I do feel they crossed a line here and that it will backfire for their next expansions and future games. And yes, next expansion will be crucial. PS Funny you mention Knights of Honor 2 briefly, that good is surprisingly good & released in a very coherent and complete state.
The 2 hour max is for automatic refunds btw. It's still worth trying when you are over when the game has issues. I got a refund for Darktide for instance despite being well over 2 hours.
I was one such person you mention in the video. You know, the kind of person who found Victoria 2 to be way to complicated to even attempt to get into. So I preordered Victoria 3, played it for like 10-ish hours and then never touched it again. I don't know what it is, but I've found Victoria 3 to be even more confusing to get into.
That's rough. Vic 2 is great. I found Brazil to be the best nation to play to get past the learning curve. Have you tried them yet? Not the most exciting nation, but allows you to a bit of everything in a low pressure continent.
@@carltonbauheimer I've tried pretty much all the 'easy' nations' people have recommended me in Vic 2. 'Argentina', 'Brazil' and 'Belgium'. Especially the latter one (since I am Belgian). I just have no idea how to get an economy going. For one moment, all my factories are making a profit and are in the green, when suddenly my entire economy collapses out of the blue. I have also no idea how politics work and what to do with it. I've sadly come to accept that a game like Vic 2/3 simply isn't for me. I'm way too stupid to understand it lol.
@@knightsolaire6342 dang, sorry bro. We'll as one last shot, there is a channel called CallMeEzekiel that has a really good guide to the basics of economy that might help you with that. Good luck with your future gaming endeavors, sir.
@@knightsolaire6342 my guess is that you're not a great power, but also not in the sphere of any great power. As a result there are some crucial resources your factories need that you're not able to buy on the world market because they're being bought up before you get a chance, and you're not producing enough of the resource yourself. As a result your factories aren't able to be profitable. Once you understand the basic mechanics of the game, and it sounds like you do, try playing a more powerful country that starts as or near great power status. It makes the economy a LOT easier to handle.
You shouldnt be relying on industry for your economy to profit imo. Economy is really easy in vic 2 just tax and tariff everyone as much as possible, it has the added benefit of making pops promote faster. Instead of playing a "starter" nation you could go for one of the big ones like France or UK where you're already big enough that things just work no matter what you do.
A thing were Victoria 3 is better than the 2 Heavy alt-historical conquest. I used mod on Victoria 2 (and also personal mods) to be able to completely dismantle and annex great powers, and for example "form the "Roman Empire" or "Paneuropa" This completely break the game because the 8 GP are hard coded and when you completely remove too many of them the game stop working properly (also if China westernise, the games break) Victoria 3 with the new GP and recognisation system is a lot more flexible.
it is quite flexible thats true, i just played a game as Byzantium where Germany never formed, Great Britain lost all their empire basically to revolution, and the United States never had the civil war and the Free States of America popped out took most of the US' land and became a great power
Whereas Vic 3 did not draw me in, I owe to them for actually getting me to try out Hoi4, because susprisingly enough I came to really like that game even tough it looks nothing like any other games I play!
Given that Paradox just announced it is shafting a third of the Stellaris team (just after their dev team got constant accolades at how they are turning the game around), I highly doubt Vic3 can achieve anything.
I don't think Victoria 3 is entirely a bad game. Especially with 1.2, reworking alot of the mechanics. But the war system is just horrible. While they improved it, it's just a bad foundation to improve on. I really want physical control of armies back or at least physical representation of armies moving on the map.
As someone who has some stellaris experience under my belt the real appeal is that when you make a game you never know what's gonna happen, its all randomly generated, you could have the most peaceful game or you can make a warhammer ripoff
So it has combat where not only RNG can make or break everything but you can't even control your armies? Yeah, not buying this until/unless they overhaul it.
The funniest thing to me about the CK3/Vic3 comparison is that CK3 is only just recently starting to become a better game. These two titles will have a good race ahead of them.
Ck3 isn't even that bad, Just depends on what you are into. I wanted a way more historicao focus. They went for more RP. It also kinda lacks focus generally. They added like half of africa (which they will never be able to somewhat realistically simulate) and all of India while the core parts of the map around the med haven't gotten any love yet.
@@konradvonschnitzeldorf6506 I remember when I got shouted down on the ck3 discord server because I made the point that they should focus on the christian and Islamic worlds rather than add china and Japan
@@KenfrenQuantity over quality in a nutshell. Its my problem with also Early Acces developers, that they focus too much in adding things, but not making what they have, better. 😅
Even tho i was hoping for the game to be good against all odds, I still told people not to pre-order. The response was something like ”i can do what i want with my money” Sigh.
Came here to say thank you for telling me not to pre-order a Paradox Product(TM) since I play a lot of EU4 and was excited for Domination. However, both the Leviathan disaster and this video made me decide that it was better to wait and see. And holy shit Domination has apparently made the game almost unplayable with bugs and crashes, an example being able to raise Ottoman Janissaries as a Russian Orthodox Muscovy instead of the Orthodox mechanics or the display_alerts.txt (or something like that) file somehow causing the game to crash on launch. Once again Spud, thank you
I've never played either Vic2 or Vic3, but this seems eerily similar to the Pharaoh: New Era launch that came out not much after Vic3. It was a much smaller scale, but it still had comparatively lots of promotional materials and nostalgia baiting, only to produce something that was an objective downgrade to a game released almost 25 years ago. The best part about it though, was that it released both on GoG and Steam at the same time. And while the Steam reviews day1 were busy posting about nostalgia or making loss.jpg memes in hieroglyphs (okay that one was kind of cool), it took them 3-4 days to drop from 80% to 60% where it sat for a while. Meanwhile, GoG started out at 60%, and every review was some variation of "why would I play this if I can get the superior original for cheaper?" from day 1. But by then, they've made their money off Steam. The 2 hour refund window is just not big enough to be worthwhile for anything other than games that are straight up incompatible with your system. But this ties into the larger anti-criticism mindset a lot of video game communities tend to have, where you're not allowed to criticize the game if you've spent less than 100 hours into it, because "you didn't give it a fair chance." And once you spend 100 hours and come back saying "actually, it's still shite" you'll instead hear that "you've gotten 100 hours of entertainment though, so you're legally not allowed to complain now." No winning.
Your point about the paradox of Steam reviews is applicable to any game on Steam honestly. A game can get positive notoriety on account of a meme status and get flooded with similarly positive meme reviews - they still count as *positive* reviews that pad the rating.
I've not played a lot of Stellaris but the Event Chain system was probably the stand out mechanic and something which would presumably take a number of play throughs to discover even a decent percentage of. Victoria 3 has nothing like that.
Journal Entries are event chains, PDX just hasn't used them to their full advantage, and neither have modders really. If you look at the code they are an incredibly powerful system and IMO better than focus trees or event chains, because there is room for a lot more potential and they allow for non-linear gameplay, as Journal Entries can go back and go forwards and a bunch of other stuff.
The event chains don't have branching paths. They are essentially like this: option a) bonus research, b) bonus unity c) flat research d) influence (saying we don't have time for this) Sometimes they will spice things up so it becomes option a) flat research type x, b) flat research type y c) flat research type z Best events are essentially " wanna have a planet or some extra research rate for 5 years" which are always prejudiced one way. Their replayability is singular at most. As a veteran stellaris player I have developed a habit of skipping them instantly.
@@Bleilock1 I wouldnt say that. Playing a couple games you deffo see lots of repeats tho, but such is the nature of a game like stellaris, where each playthrough will be more similar than in a game with a preset map. I think an update solely focused on just adding a ton of events would be fun
@@darkithnamgedrf9495 in ck3 they made that "event update" cost 5 euro And also it broke the game, with feuds and loyalty People who have it, have disabled it Thats pdx for ya
At least they added in a music player at all into the game. I:R and CK3 don't have one at all. It's all just random "ambient" music.It's one of the reasons why I didn't play as much I:R as I wanted to, as I have gotten used to turning on something else in the background, while allowing normal gameplay background noises, such as the monthly money noise in eu4, clue me in on events within the game. As for Multiplayer in Vic3, apparently it's so bad right now, that modders are creating all-in-one mods, which combine several select mods, because you can't use more than one mod, when playing MP. I saw several of them while just browsing the workshop and wondering why they existed, especially when it sometimes only included like 5 mods, unlike the many combomodpacks for eu4 or hoi4, which are created, to ensure that nobody forgot one or the other mod and that they play nice with each other.
@@lamename2010 I can't check right now but usually there are different sound settings. I'm not talking about the master volume. Usually there's a setting for music and system sounds and possibly ambient sounds respectively.
@@Alpha_Digamma I did that for a while, but it remained quite cumbersome and made me go back to eu4, way before I felt like i got everything out of I:R that I wanted.
You can refund a game on steam if you have played more than 2 hours. It is more of a suggestion and all refunds are reviewed (to my knowledge). I've refunded multiple games I've played for over 2 hours.
Very interesting review! I was skeptical at first because I really enjoy the game and I have fun playing and I though it would be just a hate video. However, you are totally right; the game lacks flavor, which with warfare I could consider the worst parts. Flavor it is fixable, but warfare it's very very hard to change because of the way that it is built. I have never thought how Paradox brainwashed us, but it is amazing how no one has released such a good video as you. HOI4 vanilla in 2016 was bad, but modders and DLC's made it one of the best (if not the best) strategy games. As a Pokémon fan I agree with you, it's the same issue. Pokémon fans want to play Pokémon so they buy a new game knowing it's full of problems and the devs had been lazy, but even though they buy it because they want to play Pokémon and no one else makes Pokémon games. Paradox is now experiencing the same, but the community needs to open their eyes. It's easier to "boycott" or to convice Paradox to make changes to their games and implement what we want than Nintendo. Therefore we should make an effort to tell them through every possible what to change and how to change it, not only in Vic3 but with every other game. All in all, I really hope Paradox can fix this game because I agree with the positive Steam reviews: It has potential, it depends on the direction of the game how to deal with this issue and the first expansion will decide its fate.
Warhammer 3 is interesting since many people played the combined maps of previous game sinstead of the campign provided by the base game. It also saw rough bugs and blatant issues that did deserve most of the heat towards CA. But with the combined maps and the content that the promised and teasered long ago and with a new dlc on the horizon the game will go up from now on. This doesnt excuse them beating preorders, i knew the game will be buggy and i only preordered to save money, and the game needed 1ish year to see a noticable rise and attitude change in the community. 2 different problems victoria has it doesnt build up from vic2 where as total war has ad its definitive gameplay for years and does small refinements instead of making such a (almost) radical change so it is no true successor as the name implies to vic 2. in warhammer 3 you also get to play all the content from the previous two games so you dont need to buy all the dlc and character again just to play them in the new game or multiplayer. sth vic2 did too but in a way of the songs which was a blatant and almost malivcious cash grab. This boils down to warhammer 3 had a loved predecessor where people knew even if this is a buggy mess right now we know what we WILL get in time where as victoria 3 tries to be sth new will implying it is derived from a loved predecessor which means paradox has to do a majoe u turn and go back to victoria 2 and pick up the things that made it so loved and remembered or they free themself of this burden of being held against vic2 and try to be sth different like stellaris but trying to do both things at once will only do dmg. but like you said this forst expansion will show what we can expect of development and what path the chose
As a EU IV player who also plays CK2 and 3 and Hearts of Iron Iv i still do not understand why they removed actualy physical troops. Like what? Its the same if Civilisation games suddenly removed the option of creating civilian and militairy troops.... and instead just have border wars?
Warhammer did better after because it released without something that was promised down the line. It's called "Immortal Empires" and it's the best map in Warhammer and basically combined the entire maps of Warhammer 1-2-3 all into the same game and has hundreds of playable factions. The developers were open that they couldn't finish it on their launch schedule and scheduled it down the line about a month after release and have constantly and I mean CONSTANTLY been updating and balancing the map. (unlike PDX they actually listen to feed back and have consistently improved and implemented new systems according to the players wishes, obviously this doesn't discount the fact that they are near as bad as PDX with all the dlc and content but they still care a whole lot more)
Developers can be a bit stuck up honestly they usually won't listen to feedback because they don't want to implement a feature due to time and cost or they believe that their vision is the only correct one. It's common with artists really to be a bit resistant to criticism.
I was hyped for Vicky 3. I came across your Vic 2 MP videos, loved MP, even bought the game to start playing it "in preparation" for future Vic 3 games. But holy shit, the more I learn the better Vic 2 looks. Hell, I'm in my 3rd MP game, and when you get at least a small chance to fight, it's absurdly fun and interesting Also, to the PDX forums calling you a racist: Have they never read thwir own Steam reviews?
I've been saying don't pre-order any game for years. But I do make exceptions for those with a demo that you consider to be good enough to pay full price for.
when it comes to Hoi4 multiplayer, generally speaking the more competitive lobbies will always use some kind of mod to improve the balance of the game to a standard they consider appropriate; but competitive lobbies likely don't account for the majority of multiplayer games. What makes hoi4 multiplayer so long-lived and well liked is its versatility, even allowing players to coop on the same nation or just observe the game if that's what they want to do. It has an incredibly low skill floor/bar for entry and simultaneously a really fucking high skill ceiling that (much like the variety the workshop provides) only gives it more longevity. Rest in pepperoni Vic 3 player count. Maybe I'll [LEGALLY ACQUIRE THE GAME] when there's a bit more to it.
Old Paradox games > New Paradox games Vicky2 is way better game than vicky3 could ever be, i still like ck2 more than ck3, hell if not for how many good mods there are for hoi4 i would still be playing hoi3 (and just for the record, it's not nostalgia, im not old enough for that, i started playing hoi3 after i played hoi4 and i started playing vicky2 in like 2019)
TBH, I saw the changes and was excited for what would be added in Victoria 3. I liked the *idea* of changes to conflicts in the game, it's just so poorly implemented. I like some of the changes, but it feels a lot more mechnical that Victoria 2... and that's as someone who has played Victoria 2 for only about 50 hours. I want to like the new production queue and I want to like the new war mechanics, but you saying they're just HOI4 mechanics ... yeah, it's so bloody true.
It's bare bones, as all Paradox games are at launch. However it has enough content for a fun game. I got around 70 hours in the game. There are definitely things they can improve on, many, and many more things they can add however overall I think it's a good game for a PDX launch game. It has a higher replayability than CK3 imo
Excellent video and I 100% agree with the no pre-order advice. Take it from someone who played Paradox's games since Hearts of Iron 2. Paradox used to be a developer whom I fully supported and encouraged people to buy their games, because they clearly had a passion for them and their customers. But I honestly fear that is no longer the case. And that comes down to not just the state in which they release games, but also their DLC policy and milking a title for all its worth. It started with CK2 but overall it wasnt too bad to start. Don't care about playing Islamic nations or Republics, then just don't buy those DLC. But in EU4 the DLC started putting specific game mechanics and quality of life updates behind the expansions. And they just kept pumping out more and more of them, and they keep raising the price on them too. The fact we're still on the buggy ass Clausewitz engine after all these years is also an absolute shame. Part of me had hoped that with Vicky 3 they were going to start a new engine, but no such luck. They keep making their games more complex and the only reason they can run on that old ass engine at all, is because of the increase in computer power over the years. Because as you modders know, it isn't the graphics that is slowing down things, it is just the sheer amount of data and tables. Anyway to cut a long post short, Imperator was the last game of Paradox that I had hope for and foolishly bought. And the fact that unlike every other title they dropped support for it so quickly, despite the massive potential made me turn my back on the company as they had on treating their customers as people, rather than wallets.
I played vicky3 when the new update came out (pirated obviously) and I played persia, had sindh and kokand in my market basically, russia declares war over kokand, I defend them and push into southern russia beating them senslessly, they win one battle in kokand and they surrender the war and I'm automatically peaced out, GERMANY declares war to ANNEX sindh, they get a naval landing since it's literally impossible to defend coasts, as I'm pushing them out sindh just accepts a complete defeat peace deal since they calculate the total german army is much bigger than ours, and yet again an ally is just taken from me with absolutely nothing I can do, great fucking game man totally not still completely broken
As someone who got into Paradox games relatively "late", as in around shortly before EU IV with EU III, I seem to be more open for changes / give them a chance. I did dabble a bit in Vic 2 at some point, but it didn't grab me at the time. Also the influence thingy drove me mad. ;) For Vic 3, I still believe that many things can be made better with tweaking, even the combat system in its current form. At the end of the day, I wouldn't have spent about 230 hours in it so far otherwise. So I am looking forward to what's to come.
combat system is workable, just make it 1 frontline per state + allow armies to extend across bordering frontlines, or allow multiple battles per frontline and all of a sudden the frontline system is much better.
@@Apokalypse456 You can have multiple battles per frontline, it just takes changing a number in the defines file. Though anything above 2 battles on the same front becomes incredibly unbalanced
the funniest part of vic 3's launch was bannerlord bought the steam store banner space on vic 3's launch
Banterlord
Doing god's work there
Obamna
Butterlord
Based Chudlord
"If you look at the chart, we still have about 100,000 troops!"
- Napoleon, after losing c.500,000 men in Russia, probably
Paradox marketing department is made out of graphic designers just making up charts.
And then again when he fight against all of Europe in Waterloo.
Historical Chinese lossing millions of men in a single battle: DECISIVE VICTORY
Now I understand why does graphic designers are in the marketing department in the first place.
@@YourLocalYummyPasserbythat one battle had one side losing 250,000 and the other side lost half a million so yes decisive
I love how people at this point preordered 3+ Paradox games and always were duped of a good game on launch, yet they still pre order the next game, definition of insanity.
Cyberpunk 2077...
It's addiction
Its probably because many people that pre orderd CK3 ACTUALLY got a good game at launch. Something rare for pdx
Cons00mers
@@RK-cj4oc I would disagree, CK3 was extremly bare bones at launch, it might not have been as bad as Imperator Rome or now Vicky 3 but still by far not finished, especially compared to CK 2, honestly if Vicky 3 had a good war systme it would have been on par with the CK3 launch.
It was successful in getting the development of Open Vicky 2 jump started :)
One factor but not the only reason, many of these projects were on the go before Vic3 was announced including the one I based the video around
@@SpudgunOfficial that's true, I don't argue with that. Personally it does feel that vicky 3 is the catalyst of the sudden peak in interest in the open genre
@@SpudgunOfficial true, but now they have received a new boost of energy. I can't wait for OpenVic2 so I can finally get to make some mods... even if it takes me years.
Paradox moment.
I think Johan might be the only person at Paradox who ever developed any sense of humility after releasing dogshit products. I remember starting a thread a while back about how disappointed I was in the game, and someone made the "review bombing" accusation and Johan came in to say "As someone who released the poorest reviewed product on steam, every review is legitimate, even if the developer is sad about it or feels it's undeserved", which honestly took some balls to do. The rest of the company seems willfully ignorant of any criticism at all and insistent that they must never at any point grow a vision for the game, and instead pointlessly toodle around with 3D models like they do CK3.
That's takes real soul for Johan to comment that-an honorable man.
Actual gigachad of a developer. Realizes his mistakes, takes them into account, strives to do better. What more can you ask of a man?
And he started to fix Imperator and turn it around but the higher-ups axed the game
I still think CK2 is better than CK3. 3 is just so fking boring. Its like EU4 with characters. There’s none of the little details that made CK2 so lovable.
Johan, for whatever faults he may have, is an honorable man
Wiz, on the other hand…
Remember when Bokoen shilled hard about how great the game was, and yet no videos of the game have come out since his first 2 from early access?
Cuckoen, Cuckoen.
Because he is a shill cuck.
Tbh i dont think he liked it either, all the positive things he said about vic3 is from hype.
Oh I wonder
@@BocchiSensei Lol, it was because he was paid to like it. He is the very definition of a shill for Paradox.
I don't entirely blame him because he relies on that connection to paradox for his job, but it doesn't not make him a shill at the end of the day. I say this as someone who does generally like his videos, so I am no hater by any degree. Just calling it as I see it.
The thing that really bums me out about Vic3 is how the Vic2 community waited so long and so patiently for a sequel, then when it finally comes out it's a big middle finger to those people that waited so long and they're all told to just go away because the game they waited so long for isn't meant for them.
Then when Vic2 vets went online to voice their hurt and confusion, Paradox and the new Vic3 community met them with hostility and told them to get lost and go cry about it in a corner.
What did the Vic2 community do to deserve this? Why did Paradox decide to do this to them? I used to buy Paradox games right away on launch but after seeing what happened to the Vic2 community, I don't do so anymore. Now I regard Paradox with suspicion and caution. Which is a shame, because I loved so many of their games for so long, just for things to end this way. It's sad.
Really sad. But I heard that some Vic2 veterans... are working on a Vic2 alternative and or completely take vic2 and rework it.
@@wotanvonedelsburg1610 They are. Like another group of fans is keeping Imperator afloat and steadily improving it.
But you know, "if you want it, do it yourself" in not the best attitude for game developers.
If you really want to know why paradox did this, it was because, VIc 2 unfortunately was a very niche game. Paradox was after money, and calculated that making a game like Vic 2 would not appeal to the most amount of people, so they transformed it into the slop that is Vic 3 for "general audiences"
"The studio and the community met them with hostility and told them to get lost and go cry about it in a corner."
Basically what happened to WoW, too. Dark times.
@@090giver090 Yes not develop for big games. but for indie game developers I do.
Unironically I think Imperator deserves another DLC than Vic 3. Fixing the war and economy system is gonna be way harder than removing Mana in Imperator. Shit was actually pretty easy for them to do. Imperator is so close to being a really good game now after 2.0 but the devs from it were forced to work on Vic 3. A fate worse than death.
Amen
They gonna try to fix Vic 3 because of trademark first of all. Victoria™ is Victoria ™ while Imperator is just a failed experiment.
@@ViktorShahter maybe for victoria IV
Yes man
I replayed it recently for the first time in years I think and it is far better than Vic3 in every way
imagine a game which covers ww1 that doesn't have an actual war system
As well as not being able to have competent frontline system LMAO.
I have played a ton of Vicky 3 but I've never gotten to 1900 because of game lag.
@@scoobydoobers23 and what would be the point ? There’s no Great War mechanics anyway. No way for nations to join the war after it started. Looking at you, Italy. Ottomans. Japan. Arab revolt. America.
@@scoobydoobers23 xD
The irony being that the "war system" they do have is better suited for WW1 than for any other war in the period. It fails in the one context it should have worked.
WH3's success comes down to the release of the immortal empires campaign, something they've built up to over years. It's basically every faction from the entire trilogy on one massive map.
Most people were waiting on IE too, so judging it's launch isn't entirely fair. You'd see the same for WH2 and the release of mortal empires, which is the same thing but for game 1 and 2 factions.
true everyone played a bit on release, then said aight boys cya when IE comes out.
What is IE?
@@OneShotBruh Stands for "Immortal Empires"
@@spcsandbag6517 Most people quit because the Realm of Chaos campaign is one of the worst Total War campaigns ever created, but people knew what they would be getting with Immortal Empires (i.e. ME but bigger) so a lot of people returned.
Yea but warhammer sealed total wars fate as a real time tactics title. Shame really
I have spent over $80 on Vic 3 and have spent over 100 hours in the game. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t like the game a little bit, but holy shit there really is no flavor in the game. Even if they spend the next 2-3 years slowly fixing the game mechanics it will still be so fucking boring to play - all countries play the same and have no actual rp elements. Ive been coping for a while now but recently it really does seem like it’s actually over. Also bonus meme: go check out any of OPB’s Vic3 videos - the game has no flavor so he spends half of the video describing his headcanon rp interpretation of his country so viewers don’t fall asleep.
The only way to make Vic 3 good at all, even if you look at it not from my and probably your standpoint of a Vic 2 fan but just not monotonous and with an actual war system, is to gut large sections of the game and completely rebuild them. Is paradox really going to invest the time and labor to make essentially a new game wearing the Vic 3 skin? They may try to an extent but honestly I can't see this going anywhere else than a half-baked revival attempt that was killed by lack of interest and funds. Maybe they add a ton of flavor, events, etc for some nations like in some nation specific updates or dlc, maybe they're working on that right now in the expansion. So far all we've gotten that I can think of as of 1.2 is different flags for Germany and Italy depending on who formed them. I haven't seen the alternate flags though because I gave up trying to do it, I got tired of building the 1954th coal mine. Paradox has a LOT of work ahead of them if they are going to save this game
Funny cause I slept at every victoria 3 stream I watched
But paradrones say that the games are pure rp and thats the only and only important things that games should have
@@EnSayne987 I mean, they did with stellaris, but that was a brand new game set in a radically diferent enviroment than paradox was used to, so I just can't see them doing it again
@@darkithnamgedrf9495 Stellaris was the one exception but they can't do that for every other game they release without eventually going bankrupt. Then again their favorite cash cow EU4 is still raking in dlc money so maybe they can. Either way I think if pdx decides they need to cut some development to concentrate on new projects, vic3 will be one of the first on the chopping block. I give it 3-4 years tops
I just wish that the vic3 dev team would get a lead dev like the eu4 devs got.
For context, the eu4 dev team after the disaster that was the Leviathan dlc, hired a modder called BigBoss who already had a lot of experience in eu4 modding. With the help of the mentioned modder,they made, in my opinion, one the best dlcs from release, and they have already announced another dlc which looks to be very promising!
I think this just shows that hiring people who know the game and the franchise can be as good as people with years of experience.
BigBoss is the guy who made mission expanded?
@@erketyrettile4734 he made a similiar mod to missions expaneded called Flavor Universalis, which has very big similiarities with the newest eu4 update
Which DLC did he help with?
@@ekulzonum lions of the north
XDDDD. So they introduced Africa rework that could be made by modder in 1 weekend. Or Lion in the North that had 90% of stuff already added in mods?
The fact that Victoria 3 is in a similar situation as Stellaris is extremely ironic considering (if i'm not mistaken) that the director is the same of Stellaris at launch, Martin Anward (aka Wiz).
He left stellaris to work on a different project (now we know which one) and almost every single element of Stellaris that was made during his time has been removed and\or reworked.
To be fair, no matter the head Stellaris has been a clusterfuck since release in terms of devs constantly changing their mind about the fundamentals of how they want their game to actually work, it's like EUIV on meth.
@@j.murphy4884 True but it does look like they their vision has been pretty consistent in the last couple of years which means it only took them.... 5 years to figure out what stellaris is.
Jokes aside i think this can be accepted because stellaris is a completely new IP, a sequel should be easier in comparison.
@@j.murphy4884 every since the change from tiles it's been consistent and good.
@@francesco8000 not only a completely new IP but one not tied to reality.
You cant complain about historical accuracy bout smt that has yet to happen
the changes to only have hyperlane FTL really helped make stellaris an interesting game but tiles and the general economy rework was the thing that truly fixed the core mechanical issues, after that they've focused on making diplomacy actually interesting and adding more depth to the empire building itself.
It'll probably EU4 itself to death with feature bloat eventually now that they have two different teams working on it
i have around 140 hours on the game, but to be honest, it’s because i flooded the game with mods, having 26 just to be able to play the thing. i literally cannot imagine playing the base game for fun
I had to tap out at 62ish. Around 40 on the base game mostly with a couple dozen mods like you, then about 20 in the full 1.2 update with no mods. It's honestly the worst strategy game I have ever played.
@@utewbd i’m starting to reach the same conclusion because every time i play i get either bored or annoyed that the ai did some dumb shit. i’ll finish my italy campaign i got going and i’ll make my final judgement on if i want to continue, that gameplay is already painful
@@michael120. yeah, I'm just hoping the first dlc is good, otherwise I'll just play quake and vic 2 til open vic 2 comes out. It's sad how terrible vic 3. They could just ripped off the prequel, do some QoL changes and a graphics update. But no. Enjoy your cookie clicker.
Honestly incredible that Vic3 has a total lifetime of about 140 hours WITH mods, meanwhile older titles still have boundless amounts of interactions and content to explore. Mods account for only half my vic2 hours of playtime (2k hours total), and I haven’t even tried mods for ck2 yet bc I still have yet to explore all the different religions/cultures/ societies that are in the game as is atm ( not to mention shattered world or alt history starts)
@@michael120. exactly this. I made a post about the EIC attacking the free city of Trieste in my game. F*cking amateuristic game man
One big issue I had was governments, government in victoria 2 was vital, a bad election or revolution could set you back years if not decades, you were actively fighting your government. Victoria 3? Push button :)
haven't played vic 3 yet, is it like vic 2 in that only a couple government set ups are viable?
@@nickshaffer8115 y'know, that's an actual valid criticism of VicII - there's pretty much no context where I wouldn't want [INSERT REFORM HERE] maxed out because it just benefits me. With the possible exception of minimum wage.
@@nickshaffer8115 I think there's more variety because you can build buildings yourself and pops will overthrow the government if the interest group there in don't like the government but radicals won't because only interest groups revolt
@@sneedchuckington Yea, the reforms are alot better, but I think they need to be paired with old Gov style in some way. Both combined would be peak
This was actually what killed the game for me. It's a completely fundamental flaw IMO.
I haven't pre-ordered a game since 2014 (simcity), still going strong. No hype can truly push me over that edge. I have seen to many shit storms that it just slides off of me.
"Numbers don't lie"
But PR teams and mathemagicians sure as hell do.
Paradrones also lie
numbers dont lie, but they sure as hell can tell half-truths
Personally I think if Victoria 3 was created as cold war game it would have received much better attention. The era matches their vision for what the game is supposed to be much better. I don't know if they thought a Victoria would be better for marketing but as soon as I played the leak that's how I felt.
The gameplay would still be boring, tedious and bland which would kill off the playerbase just as fast. If anything it would certainly have sold less as a new IP because it didn't have the Victoria title to get Vic 2 fans like me going. I did pre-order the game myself because I became fooled and convinced it would be good and I am a Vic 2 fan so that played a large part. If it was a new IP I literally might not have even heard of it or forgotten it by now. Maybe the people that did still wind up checking it out would like it slightly more because at least it's not a Victoria game in this state but honestly I think it would have just met its dev death faster than it likely will now in like 2-3 years imo
Victoria was created entirely for multiplayer and streaming
The whole game plays like that
Uts basically a different game when you play mp
Its awesome... well, when its not desyncing all the time
And before 1910s before laggfest takes over
Some years back Paradox had a cold war game "East vs West", I think it was based on Hearts of Iron 3, but as a standalone game. But they decided to axe it pretty close to planned launch.
@@Bleilock1 Can't play multiplayer if no one likes the damn game enough to play it
@@EnSayne987 thats cause youbonly play sp and cant read what i wrote
In mp vic 3 becomes literally different game
Protectionism becomes to strongest trading law, rushing being liberal is not viable anymore
Markets and the world
Everything becomes alive
There are trade wars where players invade each other markets, flooding them with cheap goods
Making you embargo the person
But embargo isnt just embargos
Embargos are very expensive in influence
Meaning, you womlnt be able tl have many vassals, and many allies, members of customs unions, meaning its way harder to keep infamy low (and it lowers slower because of low excess influence)
Prestige ranking suddenly becomes important, because you really dont wanna be paying those horrible interest rates you get as being unrecognized in the mp
Meaning there is less of deficit spending/investing
Gl going into wars/being attacked while paying those debts even with good interest rates
Mp really resurrects this game into a living thing
Only problems really are bad stability and desyncs
Git gud l2p
Warhammer 3 only had that spiked cus of the immortal empires, which gave an actual open box campaign
the real things that scares me about comparing Vicky 3 to Stellaris is that it means Vicky 3 will be an entirely different goddamn game every 6 months when they release the next update or DLC
That would probably be good. Stellaris eventually got better because of it.
Stellaris was a completely different game, but the biggest thing stellaris has on its favor its the fact that it is the ONLY paradox game you can buy years after release and you are able to play dozens of hours just with the base game, buying DLC ends up being just for flavour, which allows you to pick and choose any DLC you feel like without missing out on core mechanics(which you always get as a free update, although some are quite basic but not hindering the gameplay) or QoL improvments(which you get on free updates). This allowed the game to get a very solid niche amount of players which consistently buy a DLC every once in a while instead of some people not wanting to pay for the base game and then being forced to buy all the DLC, like EU4 or HOI4 as an example, this going to far as to stop you from playing mods that use any DLC mechanic
Very true. I was so upset when they changed how borders grow. For a good solid year or two, I was a firm believer that it had gotten worse since launch. It is definitely a much better game now, but it is constantly in flux, even now.
Mostly due to their game directors being changed everytime and flipflopping between visions
@Zaiko LeBolsh the issue with Paradox and why it would ultimately doom the company is the fact that they rely too much on their dlc model. Even I, a previous eu4 fan and current stellaris player, am afraid to touch their other IPs, because I don't want to dish out 200-300 bucks for the full experience. Now that their new ips are also straight up horrible from launch, they can't expect us to rely on their unholy monetisation system to wait out the "good" stuff.
One note about steam's two hour refund window: they do sometimes allow refunds over that period. Presumably they don't allow much over it, but it is possible to go somewhat over.
I tried four times...
Indeed, the 2 hours max is only for when you dont give a valid reason, if you cant get it done through the normal way, try to contact a support member
The two hour refund window is specifically for the no-questions asked refunds.
Beyond that, you need a valid reason to refund the game. Something like a game-breaking bug that stops you from finishing the game 15 hours in would still likely be granted; Especially after a patch or two.
@@OzixiThrill turns out that "valid reason" is not "the game is clearly still in early access" or "this game actually sucks"
My last three refunds were over that limit and I got the refund. They’re more willing to give it when the game isn’t full AAA priced
Something that was really bad on launch for Stellaris was the Border system, where you didn't actually have a border, but just a "border" that grew with station tech, because any AI could just colonize inside your empire's borders.
Thats was a bold choice and interesting, but yeah it didnt worked out.
@@nox5555 funny thing is they just ripped it off from Endless Space, who actually did it somewhat well. Not to mention I actually preferred the old border system which allowed for much more interesting scenarios (three empires owning 3 planets in the same system).
altho it was indeed confusing, not being able to get iconic things like having two worlds colonized by opposing empires in the same contested system was a straight up downgrade.
uhmm, there is something you should know about. the 2 hours refund are not definite. if you can explain why you played the game for longer but still want a refund, you can get it really easily. i refunded a game with 12 hours before that made me just try to get it to work for like 8 hours and was after everything just a buggy bad mess.
so you could have gotten a refund for sure! something to keep in mind :D
Indeed, the 2 hours max is for a refund without explanation. If you can give a valid reason for why you spend 8 hours playing it and then still want a refund they often give it to you.
I myself refunded a game that i spend like 4 hours in because at like halfway through the game I encountered a bug that crashed the game everytime. Asked for a refund through their support service, explained what happened,l and said i did play for over 2 hours, they asked for proof of te bug so I did have to make a video of like 2 mins. and sended it to them. Refunded in like 4 minutes after that.
I think this is reasonable as for some games, 2 hours isnt enough to really form an opinion, grand strategy games come to mind, but sometimes buggy games as well.
@@eriktheos6022 steam is great in that regard. they are like the amazon of games when it comes to customer service.
I had many great experiences with them in the past and no bad ones.
As someone who enjoys vic3, I still think if they don’t change the war system there will be long-term issues. I’m hopeful things will get better. (Also we need more flavor and laws tbh)
I absolutely loved when Spud started comparing Stellaris with Vic 3 - the former's music is just so good it instantly gave me chills and the game transformed tremendously with each update, but sadly for Vic 3 Stellaris had most of the systems and mechanics we enjoy today at least in some form prior to updates and DLCs making them fun, while Vic 3's structures are VERY basic, especially in warfare, so I'm not sure PDX will really revamp them to the extent needed
I can't speak for Stellaris's development as I've barely played it but Vic 3 is a mediocre game on a rotten framework. They could add on new features and do some reworking overtime in typical paradox fashion, as they have begun to do with 1.2, but that is by far not enough to turn this mess into a good game. The only way Vic 3 can make a comeback is a major overhaul that changes much of the framework, then whatever they build on top of that might make it something quality
@MikeProductions1000 exactly. You'd almost think stellaris is in a different genre, definitely a different game if it weren't for similar ui aesthetics
It's so vindicating going on the Vic3 subreddit and seeing top posts complaining about the war system and general anti-fun philosophy of the game. Yeah, that's what we've been saying from the beginning, but you shouted the critics down and called them racist and too unsophisticated to understand your precious economic simulator.
Paradox new games look appealing the first time you play it, but after an hour or two you can see that it's empty, no flavour, no replayability. Games like Ck3 or Vic3 are on mobile-games tier of fun and interesting gameplay
vic 3 will get there. either through mods or dlc. it is just a coathanger to hang dlc on like stellaris and eu4.
@@knuppel8875 thats why its shit. Wait 3 years after the game release for it to be playable? It's hilarious
As other people in the comments have said I think it has to go through the Stellaris-level complete reworks instead of the EU4 dlc add-ons
Idk Vic3 feels exactly like Vic2 in terms of flavor, with a better economy (WARNING! That was an opnion on the internet, please don't cry!). I don't know anyone whose playing basegame vic2, everyone plays with HPM, because the base game is barebones, and that's largely the same for this title, everyone is playing with VFM.
Anno Domini, A.D, LITERALLY translates as "the year of our lord" and nothing else. So that's a little tautology there :)
Actually it translates to Advancing Age. Which means 'year of our lord' in medieval latin. Smarmy reply done.
@@emmy9345 no?
@@emmy9345
what
"Lord's Year", or "Year of the Lord", actually. There is no "our" in there. The "our" is usually added by people who want to pretend that you can't use AD without being a believing Christian.
Although I do, as everyone does from time to time, enjoy a good vic2 MP playthrough (especially ones as well-narrated as yours) I'm finding myself enjoying these statistical analysis-based journalistic style videos far more for whatever reason. Keep up the stellar work and I hope to see more of this content in the future.
It's so hard to find youtubers that aren't just straight up shills nowadays. You are the only person that actively says anything anti this new crap. The only other one I've found that will even say anything remotely negative about the current state of Paradox games is Count Cristo, and even then he skirts around with his language.
At least ISP called it a 6/10 as well, I dont think he has played it since that review tho lol
Pretty well-informed, and a good watch to boot. I really hope vic3 actually does get better and the devs actually support the game to make it better, but as things are looking it really does seem like a "love her and leave her" situation. Still got my fingers crossed that things improve, despite the awful release.
Paradox seems committed to giving out more free patches to fix things. This isn't Sega EA or 2k this is a studio that at least cares about community backlash once they get it imperitor is the only game they have abandoned in a decade doubt it'd help their share price to abandon one of their big 4
Great video.
Also: Don't pre-order ANY game from ANYBODY, EVER. Or not, it's not my money.
It's just that it never made any sense whatsoever to do so. It's a leftover from the old days of physical copies where you didn't want to be the guy who returned from GameStop empty-handed because the shipment had been cleared out.
Newsflash: Digital copies don't run out. Ever.
I feel like a lot of questions that people have could be answered with “money” such as the game awards being in December. If they wanted to be fair they’d do it the next year but they need to be able to sell games for Christmas that say “game of the year”
Its interesting you bring up the stellaris comparison since stellaris at launch is actually a different game to what it is now. Not just in the lol paradox DLC is a must way. The way pops are handled, borders, hyperlanes being the only way to travel now, fuckin alloys existing now, ect. Maybe Vic 3 will go a similar way and become a different game in 2 years time. Im unsure what the first DLC for vic 3 will be but my hopes arent high since first paradox dlc tends to be meh at best (with stellaris again bucking the trend by having a pretty good first real DLC). I didnt buy Vic 3 because I saw the garbage fire miles away so im gratful for that ill be able to pick up the game for 10 bucks when its actually a full game in a year and halfs time or so. Ill never understand preordering just wait to buy the game when it comes out if its good but then again the average person doesnt care.
Also for warhammer 3 im not even gonna look it up but I assume that player jump was immortal empires coming out. Warhammer 3 came out without it and if you wanna know what it is it added the grand campaign map and the ability to actually play as all the warhammer 1 and 2 factions. I dont even know how to compare it to paradox. Imagine if EU5 came out and at launch the only playable factions were Russia, Scandanavia and Ming and you had to wait to play as everyone else. And own EU 3 and 4.
Isnt that because stellaris was released under one director, then another came and basically switched everything around(much to the annoyance of most players) and then the last few dlcs were just SALVAGE IT SALVAGE IT!
@@eriktheos6022 No? The base mechanics were garbage, and most players liked the huge reworks. What are you talking about the last few dlcs?
If my memory serves me, the wh3 bump was immortal empires, one of the most ambitious, technically free dlcs ever. I say technically free because, what it did was combine each of the previous games into one massive map, so long as you owned them. They then dropped even that and said you can still play it, just not as the races you don't own.
Overall, wh3 is a surprisingly good comparison to make. Fans pretty well recognize that the game will be entirely made through future content and mods, so time is in its favor. Vic 3 will have to take this route if it wants to survive.
The only difference between Imperator and Victoria is that Paradox had their PR team on full force this time.
That last stat that paradox faked is outrageous
Excellent video. As someone who plays Paradox games since 2011, I know all too well about their trademark quarter-baked approach. I never buy these games full price, that's what the studio deserves for betraying their fan base time and time again. Don't be bothered by the haters mate, they haven't learned how bad things actually are 🐸
This is why some people pirate their games
Soy really has been a disaster for feedback cycles everywhere.
Not gonna lie at first I was a vic3 defender but after playing it for only about 50 hours I was so done with the awful way war worked everything else I could deal with it but fuck me the war sucks.
Welcome back brother.
Not a Vic fan in general (never really put in the hours). But one game that Paradox seems to neglect is ck3. Ck2 was my favorite for many years, so seeing a lack of content (republics, nomads, fixing the crusades, etc) since 2020 is discouraging. Vic 3 and Ck3 are similar: paradox seems to ignore the success of the previous title.
Paradox is really basing their sales strategy in lowering spectations.
A little anectode about Stellaris, the game director for it at launch was Henrik Fåhraeus, with whizz taking over after maybe a year or so. Ironically, he then proceded to curate the creation of IMO one of the worst DLCs in Paradox history, Megacorp (technically the DLC itself was fine, its the free patch that came along with that was the problem), which completely ruined the AI, performance, and pretty much half of the other mechanics present in the game at that time. So basically he came in, took a big smelly dump on Stellaris and then run off to start working on Vic 3. It literally took Stellaris 3 years and two game directors to recover to a state of being actually enjoyable again (and some people were actually sad that he left lmao). I haven't bought Vic 3 specifically because of him, and probably never will given its sorry state.
God megacorp on paper was so good, but the patch that it came with just straight up ruined the game for most people( myself included). The dlc was good, but if you didnt have it, go fuck yourself.
I remember the forum being up in arms about it.
Last few patches after that were purely focused on making the game playable at all. Stellaris is good now but it loses its replayablilty fast
I disagree. While it took a long time to fix the problems around the new system, mechanically I always thought the district system was superior.
I mean...sure? The new district system is essentially the old tile system but hidden under the different GUI with some improvements slapped on top of it. I guess it is still better because the old system was as basic as it gets, but it's not like the same result couldn't have been achieved with tiles.
Two hour refund window saw me playing as the UK going into a constant cycle of building tool factories to try lower the prices because I built like an additional 10 construction centres if I remember correctly
Honestly, for anyone who saw EUIV's launch condition, why would you be surprised to see another PI game released in a bare bones state? I was frankly shocked that HOIIV was actually a playable experience on launch. Well I only tried German, Britain, and Japan to be honest, but that's still clearing the low bar they've set for themselves in earlier games.
HOI4 was definitely playable on launch but had a lot of problems, especially the AI if I remember
As we say about the Gaming Industry these days: “There’s no going back after what’s been done…”
To the shills and those who cope with the present conditions they have embraced: Be my guest
CA’s Total War Warhammer player base would agree that they detest a polar centric campaign map and would agitate the devs to make the Expansion DLC Immortal Empires an FLC with conditions in regards to ownership of games containing prior released races to be unlocked as a sort of race+faction flavor packs
If Vic3 flunks in their Expansion release, it will be the new Total War Three Kingdoms/Thrones of Britannia game, but brought you by Paracucks Introactive
I preordered it but after watching Bokoen's pre release game play his reactions felt so fake and obvious (like they'd start making a little bit of money and just scream relentlessly about it) that I cancelled the preorder.
The moment i heard about "we are going to do something vastly differant from Vicky II" i was already suspicious.
Paradox and innovations especially laterly was really a bunch of disapointment between bad updates for EU4 lack of good stuff CK3 DLC's being useless etc...
I mean sequel to Vicky II even if changed and modernised brought me in, but frankly im surprised so many people bought the game despite most being also familial with Paradox games and KNOWS no paradox game has ever been released as a good game so waiting beyond the initial hype is like REQUIRED.
Its really a good thing you didnt buy it ^^
@@Freedmoon44 "going different from our game" is the stupidest thing ever that they did. "Hey you like mario? well in the new game, we went in a completely new direction, its now a dating sim!"
@@ManCheat2 its Mario, it would WORK smh, especially because since it would be the first they would put in actual efforts.
Mario isnt Paradox
Considering how many type of mario games their are unless they call a dating sim the newest Mario kart or smt, they would smh succeed into making the game lol
@@Freedmoon44 Again... maybe you dont understand, so i will repeat it in more clearer terms... Sure there is mario kart right? But they didnt call it Super Mario Bros 2. They called it MARIO K A R T. This is trying to take the name and going in a completely different direction of what has been established and not stating it in the name. Imagine if you will, if you bought and preordered Super mario bros 2, thinking it would be like SMB1, ads showing mario in all of its teasers and so on, but when u boot up the game, its nothing like SMB1, its just fucking go kart racing.
Everyone looks at Victoria 3 and CK 3 wrong they're flavorless becasue they were released early because Imperitor bombed you can dig through their code and see a lot stuff that screams we were told release day was in a month all of a sudden
Big paradox has lobbied Steam to lower the required playtime for a refund
Ck2 and Vic2 were my favourite games of all time. Put thousands of hours into both. Pre-ordered CK3, tried to stay positive about the experience, but all the optimism in the world can't replace the soul they ripped out of Crusader Kings. I figured Vic 3 would be a slam dunk. For a game whose community was built on the niche and clunky mechanics, surely I imagined, they'd simply refine them. I told myself the new war system can't be THAT bad. Well now I have another new paradox title under 50 hours eating dust in my library. What happened at Paradox? I know they've never been known for strong releases, but at least they used to eventually make their games fun and playable.
This is a great video, my friend. I personally love Victoria 3, but absolutely value critics and critical views like yours. I’m very excited for the game’s future, and it will only get better if Paradox watches serious videos and critics like this one/you. Cheers!
Thanks I appreciate it and all the best with your channel
Agreed !
I’ll just say, I enjoy Victoria 3 in its own way, as opposed to in direct comparison to Vicky 2. I also think that hoi4 was greatly helped in popularity with all the hoi4 content that is being produced
vic 3 rn just needs a reworked war system and some minor updates and the game will be amazing, no idea why they want to stick to this trash they call a war system that is in the game rn
@@mcsroom8930The war system is the main concern sure, but even then they will need to rework the economy, politics, diplomacy, navies. It just seems like everything is abstracted to hell, I think they honestly failed when they went with the more accessible and dumbed down version of Vic 2 design philosophy. Well, I call it a failure because the game is trash, they might see it differently from the 500.000 copies sold figure.
If you did, its great. The games do not need to be similar, but if its name vici3 it cant be other game. I mean if you buy a DOOM 3 do you expect that they will take away option to move, and for shooting you don't even need to press button, only move you camera towards enemy, and that's it you won. In current condition its not working at all. even with newest update. Basic mechanics and idea behind it does not work as intended to do so. i don't know how much you played but, can you really explain what is the difference between countries and laws in your campaign? do you really have a sandbox to fun with? i think that there are no real difference between countries, there are no real difference between what you are doing at all. its just demo version that shows that the game engine can render a trillion of unnecessary calculation just to show us buildings on the world map.
About hoi4 even on the release, game was fun. and this is what games are intended to do. and if the game is FUN its amazing to promote this game. But if it don't, its just fake advertainment, which is, you know, can be classified as fraud, same as No mans sky on release.
@@hecatedraws i would say the economic system rn is fine as the new update fixed my major problem with it
politics just need some falvor and diplomacy some fixes as there are some basic options that are missing, im counting navy with the war system
The thing is, we're making a comparation between a 2010 game and a 2023 one. Also, they sell you their new games as a service, if you want to really enjoy all the game mechanics you need to buy at least some DLC.
It might be good after 4 years and 3 dlcs, a standard paradox strategy, and we all knew it was gonna happen like this. Cause releasing a full and finished game is a thing of the past now I guess.
as a Hoi4 player the last dlc was a bit of a mess but the game is extremly fun to play for me and my friends and the stories it made were amazing, hoi4 and stellaris are what made me disscover this game genre and i fell in love with it, i love ck2 vic 2 eu4 hoi4 and stellaris, vic 3 to me is a boring mess that looks like a bad attempt of taking city skylines and applying a 1800s skin on to it and ck3 lost the charm of it predacesor for me atleast..
also the only time i ever pre ordered a paradox dlc was for hoi4 when i know the dlc is going to be the same price pre order or no pre order due to my love of hoi4 as a game because you get some extra bonus content for the same price
The issue with Vic3 is that theres nothing to do,honestly Vic2 too but at least vic2 has some mods and A FEW historical events,and a lot of good mods. Like the mexican-american war,formation of germany stuff,russia stuff and the opium wars. IN Vic3 90% of historical events dont fire or happend whatever and the game is still too early to be worth giving pdx money for the work of other people like i did for hoi4.
Vic 3 is in a strange position, most pdx games hinge on their first dlc, the major reason to pre order which you didn’t cover is to ensure the game comes out big game companies which pdx now falls under have a tendency to pull the plug on projects that don’t sell enough pre orders
Most paradox games don't hinge on their first dlc only one game did and it was already dying pulling 5k a month is enough to justify DLC sales to paradox ck2 was hovering at 2k quite a few times before it's life ended
What big game company pulled the plug after a game didnt receive enough pre order? If the game got close enough to get a pre order page on steam then they've already completed most of it and cant really afford to see 0 return on the project.
@@lucasbrant9856 EA
@@lastresort1plays What game did they pull due to a lack of preorders? Couldn't find anything online.
i started with a mp game in vic3 too and right after it i tried to refund it only to realize i spend 3 hours in lobby sim so now i cant
you can try less than 2 hours just means they'll refund no matter what, ive seen people refund with like 8 hours
@@ryanrichardson5844 idk i tried never got a response or anything
I mean, it's deeply ironic they copied the civilian part of HOI4 and not the warfare because it's literally a near textbook example of how to do automation of warfare well. (Well, the land battle part at least).
I struggle to think what Vic3 does well tbh. I think I would rather have seen Victorias Secret, the visual novel instead at this point. (That was the game Martin always joked about working on)
Well HoI4 just has more and more mods that let you play what you want, also Warhammer 3 has a really large advantage that immortal empires is what people were waiting for, which is a game mode that lets you play in a map that is the combination of the maps of Warhammer 1, 2 and 3, and lets you play as any character you have access to from the past 2 games and their DLCs.
So on top of being able to play a much larger game, you can play as characters you already like, with a lot of the improvements from Warhammer 3, and with full mod support with a community of modders that have been making amazing mods for Total War Games since forever ago, like Radious who always makes mods for every Total War game that adds extra units to fill the army rosters of different factions to make the game way more fun.
Warhammer 3 is also not a large massive departure from Warhammer 2 since it is a franchise that has built up incremental improvements with each entry into the TW: Warhammer series.
That’s some well done investigative journalism there :) I did enjoy my first playthrough of Victoria 3 and got my hours out of it, but the state of release certainly made me very wary of PDX. Looking at the content-dry and flavorless state of CK3 after more than 2 years, the EA release of Victoria, and the steep price increase of their DLC’s across the board, I do feel they crossed a line here and that it will backfire for their next expansions and future games. And yes, next expansion will be crucial.
PS Funny you mention Knights of Honor 2 briefly, that good is surprisingly good & released in a very coherent and complete state.
Still lots of negative reviews that make solid points.
The 2 hour max is for automatic refunds btw. It's still worth trying when you are over when the game has issues. I got a refund for Darktide for instance despite being well over 2 hours.
I was one such person you mention in the video. You know, the kind of person who found Victoria 2 to be way to complicated to even attempt to get into. So I preordered Victoria 3, played it for like 10-ish hours and then never touched it again. I don't know what it is, but I've found Victoria 3 to be even more confusing to get into.
That's rough. Vic 2 is great. I found Brazil to be the best nation to play to get past the learning curve. Have you tried them yet? Not the most exciting nation, but allows you to a bit of everything in a low pressure continent.
@@carltonbauheimer I've tried pretty much all the 'easy' nations' people have recommended me in Vic 2. 'Argentina', 'Brazil' and 'Belgium'. Especially the latter one (since I am Belgian). I just have no idea how to get an economy going. For one moment, all my factories are making a profit and are in the green, when suddenly my entire economy collapses out of the blue. I have also no idea how politics work and what to do with it.
I've sadly come to accept that a game like Vic 2/3 simply isn't for me. I'm way too stupid to understand it lol.
@@knightsolaire6342 dang, sorry bro. We'll as one last shot, there is a channel called CallMeEzekiel that has a really good guide to the basics of economy that might help you with that.
Good luck with your future gaming endeavors, sir.
@@knightsolaire6342 my guess is that you're not a great power, but also not in the sphere of any great power. As a result there are some crucial resources your factories need that you're not able to buy on the world market because they're being bought up before you get a chance, and you're not producing enough of the resource yourself. As a result your factories aren't able to be profitable.
Once you understand the basic mechanics of the game, and it sounds like you do, try playing a more powerful country that starts as or near great power status. It makes the economy a LOT easier to handle.
You shouldnt be relying on industry for your economy to profit imo. Economy is really easy in vic 2 just tax and tariff everyone as much as possible, it has the added benefit of making pops promote faster.
Instead of playing a "starter" nation you could go for one of the big ones like France or UK where you're already big enough that things just work no matter what you do.
A thing were Victoria 3 is better than the 2
Heavy alt-historical conquest.
I used mod on Victoria 2 (and also personal mods) to be able to completely dismantle and annex great powers, and for example "form the "Roman Empire" or "Paneuropa"
This completely break the game because the 8 GP are hard coded and when you completely remove too many of them the game stop working properly (also if China westernise, the games break)
Victoria 3 with the new GP and recognisation system is a lot more flexible.
it is quite flexible thats true, i just played a game as Byzantium where Germany never formed, Great Britain lost all their empire basically to revolution, and the United States never had the civil war and the Free States of America popped out took most of the US' land and became a great power
Whereas Vic 3 did not draw me in, I owe to them for actually getting me to try out Hoi4, because susprisingly enough I came to really like that game even tough it looks nothing like any other games I play!
Given that Paradox just announced it is shafting a third of the Stellaris team (just after their dev team got constant accolades at how they are turning the game around), I highly doubt Vic3 can achieve anything.
I don't think Victoria 3 is entirely a bad game. Especially with 1.2, reworking alot of the mechanics. But the war system is just horrible. While they improved it, it's just a bad foundation to improve on.
I really want physical control of armies back or at least physical representation of armies moving on the map.
As someone who has some stellaris experience under my belt the real appeal is that when you make a game you never know what's gonna happen, its all randomly generated, you could have the most peaceful game or you can make a warhammer ripoff
So it has combat where not only RNG can make or break everything but you can't even control your armies? Yeah, not buying this until/unless they overhaul it.
Pirated the game on launch, saw the war system was shit, deleted it and never looked back.
Average Bo Paradox shill vs Chad ISP depression and meme generator
The funniest thing to me about the CK3/Vic3 comparison is that CK3 is only just recently starting to become a better game. These two titles will have a good race ahead of them.
Ck3 isn't even that bad, Just depends on what you are into. I wanted a way more historicao focus. They went for more RP. It also kinda lacks focus generally. They added like half of africa (which they will never be able to somewhat realistically simulate) and all of India while the core parts of the map around the med haven't gotten any love yet.
@@konradvonschnitzeldorf6506 I remember when I got shouted down on the ck3 discord server because I made the point that they should focus on the christian and Islamic worlds rather than add china and Japan
@@KenfrenQuantity over quality in a nutshell.
Its my problem with also Early Acces developers, that they focus too much in adding things, but not making what they have, better. 😅
Even tho i was hoping for the game to be good against all odds, I still told people not to pre-order. The response was something like ”i can do what i want with my money”
Sigh.
Came here to say thank you for telling me not to pre-order a Paradox Product(TM) since I play a lot of EU4 and was excited for Domination. However, both the Leviathan disaster and this video made me decide that it was better to wait and see. And holy shit Domination has apparently made the game almost unplayable with bugs and crashes, an example being able to raise Ottoman Janissaries as a Russian Orthodox Muscovy instead of the Orthodox mechanics or the display_alerts.txt (or something like that) file somehow causing the game to crash on launch. Once again Spud, thank you
I've never played either Vic2 or Vic3, but this seems eerily similar to the Pharaoh: New Era launch that came out not much after Vic3. It was a much smaller scale, but it still had comparatively lots of promotional materials and nostalgia baiting, only to produce something that was an objective downgrade to a game released almost 25 years ago.
The best part about it though, was that it released both on GoG and Steam at the same time. And while the Steam reviews day1 were busy posting about nostalgia or making loss.jpg memes in hieroglyphs (okay that one was kind of cool), it took them 3-4 days to drop from 80% to 60% where it sat for a while. Meanwhile, GoG started out at 60%, and every review was some variation of "why would I play this if I can get the superior original for cheaper?" from day 1. But by then, they've made their money off Steam.
The 2 hour refund window is just not big enough to be worthwhile for anything other than games that are straight up incompatible with your system. But this ties into the larger anti-criticism mindset a lot of video game communities tend to have, where you're not allowed to criticize the game if you've spent less than 100 hours into it, because "you didn't give it a fair chance." And once you spend 100 hours and come back saying "actually, it's still shite" you'll instead hear that "you've gotten 100 hours of entertainment though, so you're legally not allowed to complain now." No winning.
Your point about the paradox of Steam reviews is applicable to any game on Steam honestly. A game can get positive notoriety on account of a meme status and get flooded with similarly positive meme reviews - they still count as *positive* reviews that pad the rating.
I've not played a lot of Stellaris but the Event Chain system was probably the stand out mechanic and something which would presumably take a number of play throughs to discover even a decent percentage of.
Victoria 3 has nothing like that.
Journal Entries are event chains, PDX just hasn't used them to their full advantage, and neither have modders really. If you look at the code they are an incredibly powerful system and IMO better than focus trees or event chains, because there is room for a lot more potential and they allow for non-linear gameplay, as Journal Entries can go back and go forwards and a bunch of other stuff.
The event chains don't have branching paths. They are essentially like this: option a) bonus research, b) bonus unity c) flat research d) influence (saying we don't have time for this)
Sometimes they will spice things up so it becomes option a) flat research type x, b) flat research type y c) flat research type z
Best events are essentially " wanna have a planet or some extra research rate for 5 years" which are always prejudiced one way. Their replayability is singular at most. As a veteran stellaris player I have developed a habit of skipping them instantly.
You see all the events in basically 10-15 ingame years
@@Bleilock1 I wouldnt say that. Playing a couple games you deffo see lots of repeats tho, but such is the nature of a game like stellaris, where each playthrough will be more similar than in a game with a preset map. I think an update solely focused on just adding a ton of events would be fun
@@darkithnamgedrf9495 in ck3 they made that "event update" cost 5 euro
And also it broke the game, with feuds and loyalty
People who have it, have disabled it
Thats pdx for ya
Honestly, I think those journalists already were replaced by AI.
At least they added in a music player at all into the game. I:R and CK3 don't have one at all. It's all just random "ambient" music.It's one of the reasons why I didn't play as much I:R as I wanted to, as I have gotten used to turning on something else in the background, while allowing normal gameplay background noises, such as the monthly money noise in eu4, clue me in on events within the game.
As for Multiplayer in Vic3, apparently it's so bad right now, that modders are creating all-in-one mods, which combine several select mods, because you can't use more than one mod, when playing MP. I saw several of them while just browsing the workshop and wondering why they existed, especially when it sometimes only included like 5 mods, unlike the many combomodpacks for eu4 or hoi4, which are created, to ensure that nobody forgot one or the other mod and that they play nice with each other.
You could turn music volume to 0 in the settings an then just play music from youtube or another plattform of your choice.
@@Alpha_Digamma that also silences all the notification sounds. Like when you get war decced on, or when the month ticks by, etc.
@@lamename2010 I can't check right now but usually there are different sound settings. I'm not talking about the master volume. Usually there's a setting for music and system sounds and possibly ambient sounds respectively.
@@Alpha_Digamma I did that for a while, but it remained quite cumbersome and made me go back to eu4, way before I felt like i got everything out of I:R that I wanted.
You can refund a game on steam if you have played more than 2 hours. It is more of a suggestion and all refunds are reviewed (to my knowledge). I've refunded multiple games I've played for over 2 hours.
I haven't preordered anything, ever and i do not regret it
Never again for me, burned once.
@@DancaniaX what game if i may ask?
@@lanleskovec8697 unironically? halo reach legendry edition, the disc didn't work. since then, no pre-ordering
@@DancaniaX ah i see
Very interesting review! I was skeptical at first because I really enjoy the game and I have fun playing and I though it would be just a hate video. However, you are totally right; the game lacks flavor, which with warfare I could consider the worst parts. Flavor it is fixable, but warfare it's very very hard to change because of the way that it is built. I have never thought how Paradox brainwashed us, but it is amazing how no one has released such a good video as you. HOI4 vanilla in 2016 was bad, but modders and DLC's made it one of the best (if not the best) strategy games.
As a Pokémon fan I agree with you, it's the same issue. Pokémon fans want to play Pokémon so they buy a new game knowing it's full of problems and the devs had been lazy, but even though they buy it because they want to play Pokémon and no one else makes Pokémon games. Paradox is now experiencing the same, but the community needs to open their eyes. It's easier to "boycott" or to convice Paradox to make changes to their games and implement what we want than Nintendo. Therefore we should make an effort to tell them through every possible what to change and how to change it, not only in Vic3 but with every other game.
All in all, I really hope Paradox can fix this game because I agree with the positive Steam reviews: It has potential, it depends on the direction of the game how to deal with this issue and the first expansion will decide its fate.
Warhammer 3 is interesting since many people played the combined maps of previous game sinstead of the campign provided by the base game. It also saw rough bugs and blatant issues that did deserve most of the heat towards CA. But with the combined maps and the content that the promised and teasered long ago and with a new dlc on the horizon the game will go up from now on.
This doesnt excuse them beating preorders, i knew the game will be buggy and i only preordered to save money, and the game needed 1ish year to see a noticable rise and attitude change in the community.
2 different problems victoria has it doesnt build up from vic2 where as total war has ad its definitive gameplay for years and does small refinements instead of making such a (almost) radical change so it is no true successor as the name implies to vic 2.
in warhammer 3 you also get to play all the content from the previous two games so you dont need to buy all the dlc and character again just to play them in the new game or multiplayer. sth vic2 did too but in a way of the songs which was a blatant and almost malivcious cash grab.
This boils down to warhammer 3 had a loved predecessor where people knew even if this is a buggy mess right now we know what we WILL get in time where as victoria 3 tries to be sth new will implying it is derived from a loved predecessor which means paradox has to do a majoe u turn and go back to victoria 2 and pick up the things that made it so loved and remembered or they free themself of this burden of being held against vic2 and try to be sth different like stellaris but trying to do both things at once will only do dmg.
but like you said this forst expansion will show what we can expect of development and what path the chose
This was such a very well made video from a channel i've never heard of before.
I'm too autistic to fall for "their" propaganda 😎😎😎
As a EU IV player who also plays CK2 and 3 and Hearts of Iron Iv i still do not understand why they removed actualy physical troops. Like what? Its the same if Civilisation games suddenly removed the option of creating civilian and militairy troops.... and instead just have border wars?
Warhammer did better after because it released without something that was promised down the line. It's called "Immortal Empires" and it's the best map in Warhammer and basically combined the entire maps of Warhammer 1-2-3 all into the same game and has hundreds of playable factions. The developers were open that they couldn't finish it on their launch schedule and scheduled it down the line about a month after release and have constantly and I mean CONSTANTLY been updating and balancing the map. (unlike PDX they actually listen to feed back and have consistently improved and implemented new systems according to the players wishes, obviously this doesn't discount the fact that they are near as bad as PDX with all the dlc and content but they still care a whole lot more)
Developers can be a bit stuck up honestly they usually won't listen to feedback because they don't want to implement a feature due to time and cost or they believe that their vision is the only correct one. It's common with artists really to be a bit resistant to criticism.
Thank you for the video Spud. Now, where could I get that priceless image of the pop that says "struggling" at the bottom?
I was hyped for Vicky 3. I came across your Vic 2 MP videos, loved MP, even bought the game to start playing it "in preparation" for future Vic 3 games.
But holy shit, the more I learn the better Vic 2 looks. Hell, I'm in my 3rd MP game, and when you get at least a small chance to fight, it's absurdly fun and interesting
Also, to the PDX forums calling you a racist: Have they never read thwir own Steam reviews?
I've been saying don't pre-order any game for years. But I do make exceptions for those with a demo that you consider to be good enough to pay full price for.
when it comes to Hoi4 multiplayer, generally speaking the more competitive lobbies will always use some kind of mod to improve the balance of the game to a standard they consider appropriate; but competitive lobbies likely don't account for the majority of multiplayer games. What makes hoi4 multiplayer so long-lived and well liked is its versatility, even allowing players to coop on the same nation or just observe the game if that's what they want to do. It has an incredibly low skill floor/bar for entry and simultaneously a really fucking high skill ceiling that (much like the variety the workshop provides) only gives it more longevity.
Rest in pepperoni Vic 3 player count. Maybe I'll [LEGALLY ACQUIRE THE GAME] when there's a bit more to it.
Man I love launch Stellaris, but I gotta say it's good they completely overhauled the whole game
Let's see if Vic3 can pull that off
Old Paradox games > New Paradox games
Vicky2 is way better game than vicky3 could ever be, i still like ck2 more than ck3, hell if not for how many good mods there are for hoi4 i would still be playing hoi3 (and just for the record, it's not nostalgia, im not old enough for that, i started playing hoi3 after i played hoi4 and i started playing vicky2 in like 2019)
TBH, I saw the changes and was excited for what would be added in Victoria 3. I liked the *idea* of changes to conflicts in the game, it's just so poorly implemented. I like some of the changes, but it feels a lot more mechnical that Victoria 2... and that's as someone who has played Victoria 2 for only about 50 hours. I want to like the new production queue and I want to like the new war mechanics, but you saying they're just HOI4 mechanics ... yeah, it's so bloody true.
I'm never pre ordering another paradox game.
It's bare bones, as all Paradox games are at launch. However it has enough content for a fun game. I got around 70 hours in the game. There are definitely things they can improve on, many, and many more things they can add however overall I think it's a good game for a PDX launch game. It has a higher replayability than CK3 imo
EU IV at launch...I've been buying since HoI 1, and launches are notoriously bad.
I learnt not to buy 'on release' from the Total War: Rome 2 fiasco - I loved V2, but am waiting a few years before getting V3.
Excellent video and I 100% agree with the no pre-order advice. Take it from someone who played Paradox's games since Hearts of Iron 2.
Paradox used to be a developer whom I fully supported and encouraged people to buy their games, because they clearly had a passion for them and their customers. But I honestly fear that is no longer the case. And that comes down to not just the state in which they release games, but also their DLC policy and milking a title for all its worth. It started with CK2 but overall it wasnt too bad to start. Don't care about playing Islamic nations or Republics, then just don't buy those DLC. But in EU4 the DLC started putting specific game mechanics and quality of life updates behind the expansions. And they just kept pumping out more and more of them, and they keep raising the price on them too.
The fact we're still on the buggy ass Clausewitz engine after all these years is also an absolute shame. Part of me had hoped that with Vicky 3 they were going to start a new engine, but no such luck. They keep making their games more complex and the only reason they can run on that old ass engine at all, is because of the increase in computer power over the years. Because as you modders know, it isn't the graphics that is slowing down things, it is just the sheer amount of data and tables.
Anyway to cut a long post short, Imperator was the last game of Paradox that I had hope for and foolishly bought. And the fact that unlike every other title they dropped support for it so quickly, despite the massive potential made me turn my back on the company as they had on treating their customers as people, rather than wallets.
I played vicky3 when the new update came out (pirated obviously) and I played persia, had sindh and kokand in my market basically, russia declares war over kokand, I defend them and push into southern russia beating them senslessly, they win one battle in kokand and they surrender the war and I'm automatically peaced out, GERMANY declares war to ANNEX sindh, they get a naval landing since it's literally impossible to defend coasts, as I'm pushing them out sindh just accepts a complete defeat peace deal since they calculate the total german army is much bigger than ours, and yet again an ally is just taken from me with absolutely nothing I can do, great fucking game man totally not still completely broken
As someone who got into Paradox games relatively "late", as in around shortly before EU IV with EU III, I seem to be more open for changes / give them a chance.
I did dabble a bit in Vic 2 at some point, but it didn't grab me at the time. Also the influence thingy drove me mad. ;)
For Vic 3, I still believe that many things can be made better with tweaking, even the combat system in its current form.
At the end of the day, I wouldn't have spent about 230 hours in it so far otherwise.
So I am looking forward to what's to come.
combat system is workable, just make it 1 frontline per state + allow armies to extend across bordering frontlines, or allow multiple battles per frontline
and all of a sudden the frontline system is much better.
@@Apokalypse456 You can have multiple battles per frontline, it just takes changing a number in the defines file. Though anything above 2 battles on the same front becomes incredibly unbalanced