Motorcycle Road Positioning - Advanced Considerations For Newer Riders
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- This video gives an insight into some of the different road positions that might be used by advanced riders. This includes thoughts about "offsiding".
It is not exhaustive and does not show everything that a rider may need to know to reach an advanced standard, but more of an insight to hopefully encourage newer riders to take further training and develop higher skills.
Techniques in this video should not be used by a rider without a full understanding and suitable ability to ensure safety.
“Advanced Considerations for New Riders” precisely. If all road users mentally talked through their “Decision Making Process” like this, lives would be saved. I think one of the greatest issues is the habit of assuming everyone on the road is perfect. I remember coming to the knowledge this was not he case. When listening to the Navigator on my submarine constantly telling the Commanding Officer he was either right or left of track. Which means, the boat never sailed in a straight line. Likewise, considering the weather, road conditions, the level of skill and attention of others, there is no way to achieve perfection. Thus every half second of riding demands a risk assessment. Thank you for this, Sir.
@Sm00th Top77 thanks again for your kind comment. You are welcome, glad you enjoyed the video. All the best
Really helpful video thanks. My IAM is say similar things and it’s refreshing when asking about advanced positions I get asked why not a yes or no
@Kevin Beacham thank you, glad its helpful
24 M here. Ive had my driving licence since 17 and have been riding off road for a few years now. My CBT is booked for this Saturday coming. Hopfully I can get my A licence before the end of the summer season. Thanks for making these videos, I've found them informational and helpful
Subscribed!
Been riding for 10 months and im practicing for motorcycle riding positioning just to prepare for my CBTA Restricted course but these videos are very helpful for me as a motorcycle learner rider
Perfect timing..... This video a key piece of the jigsaw for me !
Your comments re conflictive online content, (particularly re positioning), relevant to me.... Mixed content has prior caused me needless overthinking, (again), & frustration. "Too many cooks can spoil the broth". I value consistency & quality which I find here. Apologies.. I may be hanging around a bit longer !
Advice re risks of not having accompanied training, NOT sacrificing safety for position & being proficient in mechanical control - SO IMPORTANT !
The comparison footage, (including still images), on the left hander brilliantly illustrate that, (even on a motorcycle) advanced lines sometimes provide less advantage than some might think, (particularly when NOT emergency responding &/or at lower speeds etc).
1, 2, 3 vs 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 position numericals clearly clarified also.👍
So many gems here. Police foundation could do far worse than commissioning your excellent work..(historic or future).
Best advanced road positioning video I have ever seen !
Many Thanks
👏
@AW8 thank you for your very kind comments on this video, they are much appreciated. I am glad you are finding the videos useful and I look forward t you hanging around a bit longer! All the best, ride safe
@@MotorcyclePWR 👍🙂
Been riding 1 month. Staying local in immediate neighborhood so far. We have no side walks here so if someone walking dog etc on street I ofset because I have full view. If I see a car in driveway with lights on I slide to the middle or cross into opposite road side in case they come out/ already helped me once when a car decided to back out of driveway. Great video 🥂🤙
Just wanted to say thanks for these videos I passed my Mod 2 today and just wanted to show my gratitude. Cheers! stay safe.
from Scotland.
@Tambo74 congratulations on your pass, glad the videos have been helpful, ride safe, all the best
Excellent advice, as has been said by others. Only found your channel recently and for me it is the best advanced riding channel for the UK.
I passed my advanced test 21 years ago and it is vital that we all have refreshers in one form or another.
On a completely different subject it would be helpful to hear your views on trail braking in another video as this seems a very contentious issue at present.
Paul
@HondaAdventureRider Hi Paul, thank you for your kind comments. Glad the videos are of interest. Yes, I did give some thought to trail braking as per my video, in short I think the ability to brake safely in a bend is essential, as regards trail braking to deal with bends as a normal style of riding, i think it unnecessary, "out of system" , and possibly promoting an approach which may lead to entering bends too fast on UK public roads. I get that in a competitive environment it is highly useful in the right hands. All the best, ride safe
Many thanks. Those were my thoughts although I have applied trail braking in a bend that is continuing to tighten and because it compresses the front forks slightly, should we meet that unexpected object it can help. However, I suppose the reply would be that the system says you should be prepared to stop in the distance you can see to be clear, and if the bend is tightening you should reduce your speed.
I think your videos are brilliant mate and really relate to them in my my riding. Saying that I have been riding for more years than I care to remember but I'm ALWAYS aware we can can all improve 👍
Well Phil, yet another excellent, informative and well presented video.
Please do not stop putting them out. This particular video gave me a greater insight into 'Advanced Riding' than I've been getting from direct tuition / observed rides. I now have a clear and subjective understanding of what is expected / required to achieve an Advanced Riding status. Normally, when watching one of your videos, I make notes. At 14:50 and 15:50 (thereabouts), I put the pen and paper down and clicked on 'Add to reading list" to go over again. This may not be 'direct tuition' but it is consistent, objective and clear.
Thank You 👍
@martin9756 thank you for your kind comments. I am glad the video is of some use and I wish you well with the ongoing tuition. All the best
Hi ... PWR I've watched a fair number of your videos over the last 6 months they excellent in terms of content and delivery 👍
kind Regards CC.
thank you CC, very much appreciated. Ride safe
When you did that right turn on the angled Road and angled the bike accordingly, I was actually taught that on my DAS course. Its a really useful thing to know :-)
@Haydn Walker thank you, glad you were taught it on das. Can save a lot of problems! All the best
Nice tutorial, I like your thoughtful style. May I offer some observations?
1. IMHO, on a single lane country road, the minimal extra forward vision offered on bends by moving to positions 1/2 or 4/5 is more than offset by the increased risk from either near side hazards (including roadside debris) or oncoming traffic crossing the white line.
2. Using positions 1&2 or 4&5 on bends removes the margin of error available if you have under-estimated the tightness of the bend or need to avoid a hazard such as a pothole or gravel.
3. On wider roads, moving to 1 or 5 can confuse following drivers (and riders). On right hand bends, moving to position 1 has led drivers to try to pass on the assumption that I’m stopping! Similarly, I have seen drivers try to undertake on a left hand bend as they think I have moved across in order to turn right ahead.
4. For these reasons, I stay pretty much in position 3. Not having to waste time thinking about changing my road position for every bend leaves me more time for forward observation, gear selection and so on. Holding a steady position also gives a more commanding and confident appearance to other drivers.
5. The only exception is when, like you, I will consider moving across my lane away from near side or offside roads entering a junction. An added benefit, which seems to have been forgotten in the 30 years since I was an instructor, is that car drivers are much more likely to spot a bike moving laterally across their view than one coming steadily towards them.
I just found your channel, so I’m looking forward to seeing your other contributions. Cheers!
Hi, some interesting and valid points there. Thank you for your contribution. Ride safe
@@MotorcyclePWR Interesting follow-up to my point 5. On page 11 of this week’s Motorcycle News, there is a fascinating piece about research which has been done into why car drivers don’t see motorcycles. One of the main findings was that “an effective way for a motorcyclist to be seen when approaching a junction is to make a lateral movement”. I remember being told that 40 years ago when I did my “STAR RIDER” Gold (advanced training), and I always made sure to pass it on to my pupils when I became an instructor.
@@josephlarmor550 It is a perfectly valid point you make re lateral movements, and one that was made by an associate I was training. I don't do it for 2 reasons. The first is adding additional instability on the approach to junctions where the surface is often compromised. The second is how an approaching driver may perceive a motorcyclist suddenly swerving towards the centre line, and how he might react.
I do use positions 1 and 5 primarily because if I do need to change direction mid corner, I want to be making that change towards the apex rather than away from it, and I know I always can ride a tighter line.
"Thinking rider" mentioned in the video is key, and I tell my associates that if you have a considered reason for dong something then do it that way.
@@drewchadwick9318 Thank you for your reply. As you say, thinking is the most important thing. Regarding motorists misconstruing a movement towards the centre line at a junction, fair point. But on the whole, I would prefer a driver to see me than not, even if it means there is a small risk that he is momentarily confused!
On bend positioning, I’m impressed that you can “always ride a tighter line”, I’m not that confident, and much prefer the leeway provided by position 3. But each to their own as long as it’s safe. Happy riding!
Very informative.. I’m looking at doing my CBT soon I’m 58 and have been watching all of your vids..I did ride 250 cc when I was 17 but too many mates got butchered so I traded it for a car.things have changed a fair bit on our roads since then especially the training. So it’s gonna be a 125 for a while. But more importantly I want tobe a confident and safe rider..these vids are very valuable to me thanks for your time regards Jim
@James Nightingale Thank you, glad its helpful. Things have changed a lot, I wish you well with your training and development. Ride safe...
James - Good Luck....I am 54...I did CBT last year & passed my DAS quite recently. I also drive & ride a pedal cycle.
Yesterday I witnessed a car pull out (minor right turn into major), into a High VIS pedal cyclist...the cyclist was doing no more than 10mph........brief contact - no damage or injury. Cyclists & motorcyclists are potentially vulnerable
My newbie advice... (for what it may be worth). Focus on hard-wiring correct basic riding mechanics & building muscle memory. Many learned & good car driving instincts do not lend themselves well to riding. CBT better than no training BUT also minimal considering a rider can ride unsupervised on a (125cc or smaller), motorcycle afterwards....Consider more training.............. Stay safe.
Hi James, I would suggest doing a DAS Course, and not purchase a 125 - mainly as you are older than 24 and it means you can ride any CC of bike after passing the test. Bigger (500cc+) bikes are different beasts to handle (not just power/speed) at low speeds to 125s - easier in my opinion than 125s
I was taught 1,2 and 3 in my learner course. I think 1,2,3,4,5 would have been a little too overwhelming, when I was learner. However, with some riding experience under my belt, I probably practice 1,2,3,4,5 as I have developed more lane positioning finesse. And the position will be determined, by the precise needs, of the given riding situation.
The trouble is that position no,. 1 and 5 were considered by the police as now being too dangerous to train to civilians and therefore you will not find them in any Roadcraft Manual. That doesn't mean that some instructors working for some training bodies wont try and sell them to you. Also Roadcraft no longer has information about wrong siding and the IAM don't train it either.
Excellent explain to person like me, who started bike riding at 65 first time, as Bike rider can someone explain me why I have to ride as per road speed limit and not the speed i am comfortable with, it seems to me all discussions are about who to ride fast, all I want to ride for pleasure and cruise to enjoy, any advice please?
hi, you dont have to ride at the speed limit, its a limit not a target. However, in training, it is essential that a rider can ride and make safe progress when necessary, and that is why we need to see that demonstrated. It also shows us something about your decision making and attitude towards use of speed. Also, a bike that is slow in inappropriate places can create a hazard. Good training will explain that further. But, riding in your own time you choose your speed within the limit, as long as you dont create a hazard to yourself or others. All the best.
Watched most of your videos I’m new to riding your videos give excellent advice
Thank you, glad you like them! Ride safe
Excellent instruction as always. Did you do this video specifically for me? 🤔 Need to get out together soon!
Lol, id like to say yes! We must indeed do that..
Great advice on positioning, I agree with every poin you made. I heard something recently about which position you should take up in your lane when you are stopped at the front of a queue for trafic lights, or waiting to enter a roundabout. As a very well qualified advanced rider i know my thoughts, but would be very interested in your thoughts on this matter. Cheers
@69gjacko Hi, thank you for your comment and question. I am currently prepping a video to cover this point, so I hope to share my thoughts with you very soon. Best wishes
@@MotorcyclePWR great, look forward to seeing this 👍
Thanks Phil great video 📹 explained brilliantly
Hope your well.
Regards Tony from Spain
@Tony Knowler Hi Tony, many thanks, much appreciated. Im good thank you, hope you are too. All the best
Really interesting Video, Thanks for that!
Excellent video, thank you 👍
Fantastic video as ever. Wish you were near where I live 👍
thanks Kurt, much appreciated, ride safe
Good information thanks 👍😀
Glad it was helpful! Thank you
Excellent video
Excellent! Subscribed!
Always a white bmw 😅 brilliant content as usual
How do i handle a truck ahead at very slow speed on a hill???!!! How do position myself for safety in that case.
Thanks for your question. The first thing is don't get too close and position so that you can maintain a view of the road ahead. This will often be to the right of your lane, but not always, this would depend on bends and other hazards present. On hills there are often views to be had under a truck between the wheels, these help with information gathering but are not conclusive. I presume that you would have a desire to overtake a slow truck, if so please see the video on overtaking.
Always be aware of the risk of vehicles rolling back onto you on hills so keep a safe space and escape route available. Hope this helps.
Your position 5 shown, ‘up here’ , would get you knicked. Polis say they don’t want to see “even a mirror’ overhanging a solid white.
If we are still training to position number 5 being closer to or over the central lines then we are in big trouble. That position went out of the Roadcraft manual in the 2013 edition as it was considered to be dangerous to us civilians..
Police and emergency drivers/riders however can use that position and also off siding or as I prefer to say wrong siding cos they may need that extra road space to improve vision ahead at high speeds. We as civilians don't need to do that at all. So leave wrong siding to those that need it and stay on ones own side of the line. If in doubt just slow down a little. What's the rush?
Just think what the roads would be like if all civilian road users start to use the wrong side just as and when they like, it would be absolute rubbish, chaos and extremely dangerous. So lets not do it and be safe and make our roads a lot safer for everyone. .
Hi Phil, Andrew at South East Motorcyle Training recommended you but didn't have your number. Can you advise me how to get in touch please? Thank you.
@Oliver Ashton Hi Oliver, you can e mail me at motorcyclepwr@gmail.com all the best, Phil
Yellow hi vis jackets were a good thing whether you believe in them or not but now I think I am looking for an orange one. The reason is simple put a yellow one on whilst on a country road with many more fields either side full of yellow coloured rape seed oil plants and see if you can spot the biker. No chance. I'm going for an orange one. Nothing wrong with being different.
@r craven yes, its like anything isnt it, if it blends in with the background its camouflage! I have seen some trees with bright sunlight on them bringing the colour to very similar of hi vi yellow. Some people wear hi viz pink, different too. Of course railways have been using orange for years, quite effective.
What do you call over the white line on the other side of the road? Is that 6,7,8,9 and 10?
Like the comment that each time you approach a bend, even if you've been through it 2 or 3 times that day, you approach it anew. Conditions change, it ain't a track.
thank you for your comments. Yes you could use that numbering system. I think that in training you could use any system, providing the student is completely understanding of what is being referred to. The 1-5 numbers are sometimes frowned upon these days in favour of 1-3, but ultimately an instructor has to be able to convey a position promptly on the move to the student. All the best
I acknowledge my weakness I am horrible at cornering ( road position)
@abc i wish you well with development and enjoying cornering more, ride safe
Why is it always a BMW? lol
First :-) Nice upload buddy .. If you doing CBT or MOD2 you shouldn't move to P1 or P3 as that's classed as "Advanced" despite moving to get a better view is a common Biker tool .This is because the trainer / examiner cant be sure if you moving for a view or just just poor handling .. .. But like you said i can understand why its so confusing what you can and cant do .. Basicity Advanced riders can bend rules of highway code however if you under test conditions then no you cant .. lol .. "Advanced" techniques can be very useful but requires greater care and judgment so obviously its a skill that takes time to SLOWLY develop and certainly not something new riders should rush to learn as that can only end bad .. TBH i been doing it for years , i didn't know it was "Advanced" i just thought it was a normal biker thing .. until my examiner telled me off for it haha
@OldFartUK thank you , yes, much to think about and much to not do on test! But we continue to learn. All the best , ride safe