Hi Karyn, this is unrelated to the video but I’ve been confused on the subject for a very long time, and I feel like you are the person who could finally answer my question! I’m unsure if I am being naïve in some way, but I seem to have a ‘third voice’, that is one that is neither m1 nor m2 - it feels completely different. I understand you may not know what I mean without seeing for yourself, but I will try to explain the differences. Firstly, it sounds fairly similar to m2, but when soft is more breathy. However when intensity is added it goes very thin and quite loud. It is very versatile. Here are my approximate comfortable ranges for each register: M1: A2-F#4 M2: E4-C5 ‘Third voice’: E3-A5 However, I can sing well into the 6th octave in the ‘third voice’ with a bit of pushing. I haven’t yet mastered a smooth transition between m1 and m2 in songs, however I have done it many times in exercises - I can feel that with further training I will be able to accomplish that. However the ‘third voice’ feels like a completely different voice altogether. I have never achieved any kind of legato transition into m1. I currently find vibrato very easy in m1 and the ‘third voice’, however I struggle in m2. I used to be unsure what to do when people told me to sing in Falsetto as I didn’t know whether to use m2 or this. I now realise they seem to always mean m2. Nobody seems to talk about this third voice - hence my confusion! The have found a couple of examples of male singers using what sounds to me like the same coordination. ua-cam.com/video/R9IWAxSpgKA/v-deo.html The female parts sound to me as though he is using this coordination. This is because of the timbre but also because the lower notes never seem to blend into chest voice. ua-cam.com/video/ZSenveV5QP4/v-deo.html Here in the chorus Vitas seems to me to be using this ‘third voice’, but this time using the thin loud coordination I mentioned. I don’t think he would be able to sing this high in m2. Any idea what this voice is? Any ideas on helping my confusion?Sorry for the very long, strange question!
Great suggestion! I have mentioned in a couple videos that exercises are just exercises. You can apply any technique (rock, pop, opera, etc.) to them. But yes, there are certainly exercises that, if done as prescribed/designed, will encourage a given vocal tract shape, which in turn creates a given sound.
Hey Karyn, I love this video...6:11 LOL! You've addressed such real life issues, especially for time poor parents and in a world of technological distractions, loads of food for thought( cookies..yum) Thank you!! Lin.😊
I get more out of practice when I am physically ready before I start. I can't sing well when I am hungry, and so I need to eat something about an hour before - and it must be food that provides sustained energy and doesn't irritate the stomach. Sweet potatoes are good. During the day, I do some breathing exercises without vocalising, often a series of short bursts of S, R or F sounds actively using the diaphragm without stopping until I have no more breath left, or one long sustained audible exhale using those sounds. Stretching out the tongue also helps. And about five minutes of singing through a straw before I start practicing in earnest. I have all my scales and agility exercises on my laptop computer so that I don't need to be near an instrument to practice. What I still find difficult is to recognise when I am overdoing it. My teacher can hear when I have practiced too much and tired my voice.
I actually have a whole series on the topic of vocal self-assessment. I have more videos yet to record in the series, which I hope to get to in the upcoming weeks, but here are the first few to start you out: ua-cam.com/video/rwNihUIdUBg/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/3FHA__wJ7RY/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/1YhProQ64c0/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/f4Uetd9ymyQ/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/fHnGYXH-UVg/v-deo.html
I think it's always important to incorporate vocal exercises into our practice times. Vocal exercises drill specific skills into our working technique. You don't need to go through a half hour of exercises every day, but if you pick one or two that target the skill(s) that you need to develop, then that will actually help you sing the songs that you're going to be practicing afterwards. Simple vocal exercises help because they isolate a give skill and help you focus on just that one skill, whereas songs tend to throw a lot of different types of technical challenges our way. But then we also want to make sure that we're practicing songs that meet us where we are right now as singers (e.g., not too easy, but not to challenging to the point where we're not ready to be singing that yet and we risk singing it in an unhealthy, injurious manner). Singing songs will challenge you in different ways and it will help you put into practice the skills that you have been drilling into your working technique. So I believe that singing both songs and exercises is important to our development as singers.
May I offer the advice of making sure you pick at least 2 or more songs that you love, yet feel incapable of. You have to tell your voice that you are intent on singing more challenging songs, so that it helps you get there. It's very similar to exercise in that you must work for that additional rep or work with slightly more resistance. There's no getting around the importance of going to the next level. I'm singing songs now that I couldn't go anywhere near before.
Hi Karyn, do you know how to deal with allergies for singing? I'm allergic to dust mites and don't sneeze or anything that much for the past 2 years from it, but I still get congested in my sinuses. I use the steam inhaler almost every other day, which sort of helps, but then it's back again the next day.
I, too, struggle with year-round allergies to dust mites (and mold). In addition to using dust protection on your mattress and washing your pillow and changing your sheets often, nasal irrigation might help. Watch that you're not disturbing the dust on your furniture when you dust and sending it into the air (i.e., use a damp cloth). My allergies are so bad that I have to take antihistamines year-round. It's not ideal, but it's better than the alternative.
What's the alternative? I've taken nasal sprays and that helped temporarily with the sneezing and other symptoms for a while. I've seen a video where athletes get this thing put up their nose which is like a balloon then they quickly take it out and clears out the air passages. This is the video /watch?v=ww9OORqRKTU, thought it'd be interesting to see if singers can use that as well.
Have you tried the neti pot? It takes getting used to, but I get many fewer colds and overall my sinuses are much less congested. I like it because it's cheap, I just boil some water and pour that into a glass container then add salt. When cool I pour it into the neti pot. It can be messy if you're learning how to use it, so try it over the bathtub where you have lots of room to spill. I would add that the neti pot is multi-times a day thing. I use it in the morning and in the evening, and maybe if I've been de-dusting the house my eyes will get itchy and I start to sneeze, and a saline rinse with a neti pot halts all that. My boyfriend finally tried it after not liking the claritin head-fog. He finds it remarkable in that without neti pot, his head is so waterlogged the spring that his sinus drip in front and he'll sneeze endlessly and his throat is very sore. The neti pot is yet more liquid in the sinuses, but somehow maybe the salt concentration is better. He feels better with neti pot right away in his spring allergy-time. I did have a rhinoplasty (deviated septum) and my surgeon strongly advised me/everyone to do saline rinse, all the time, not just for post-surgery recovery.
Hi Karyn, this is unrelated to the video but I’ve been confused on the subject for a very long time, and I feel like you are the person who could finally answer my question!
I’m unsure if I am being naïve in some way, but I seem to have a ‘third voice’, that is one that is neither m1 nor m2 - it feels completely different. I understand you may not know what I mean without seeing for yourself, but I will try to explain the differences.
Firstly, it sounds fairly similar to m2, but when soft is more breathy. However when intensity is added it goes very thin and quite loud. It is very versatile. Here are my approximate comfortable ranges for each register:
M1: A2-F#4
M2: E4-C5
‘Third voice’: E3-A5
However, I can sing well into the 6th octave in the ‘third voice’ with a bit of pushing.
I haven’t yet mastered a smooth transition between m1 and m2 in songs, however I have done it many times in exercises - I can feel that with further training I will be able to accomplish that. However the ‘third voice’ feels like a completely different voice altogether. I have never achieved any kind of legato transition into m1.
I currently find vibrato very easy in m1 and the ‘third voice’, however I struggle in m2. I used to be unsure what to do when people told me to sing in Falsetto as I didn’t know whether to use m2 or this. I now realise they seem to always mean m2. Nobody seems to talk about this third voice - hence my confusion!
The have found a couple of examples of male singers using what sounds to me like the same coordination.
ua-cam.com/video/R9IWAxSpgKA/v-deo.html
The female parts sound to me as though he is using this coordination. This is because of the timbre but also because the lower notes never seem to blend into chest voice.
ua-cam.com/video/ZSenveV5QP4/v-deo.html
Here in the chorus Vitas seems to me to be using this ‘third voice’, but this time using the thin loud coordination I mentioned. I don’t think he would be able to sing this high in m2.
Any idea what this voice is? Any ideas on helping my confusion?Sorry for the very long, strange question!
Have you ever made a video about which types of exercises are best for which genres/styles of singing? That would be really helpful!
Great suggestion! I have mentioned in a couple videos that exercises are just exercises. You can apply any technique (rock, pop, opera, etc.) to them. But yes, there are certainly exercises that, if done as prescribed/designed, will encourage a given vocal tract shape, which in turn creates a given sound.
Good advice ! Thank you Karyn :)
You're welcome.
Hey Karyn, I love this video...6:11 LOL!
You've addressed such real life issues, especially for time poor parents and in a world of technological distractions, loads of food for thought( cookies..yum)
Thank you!!
Lin.😊
Thanks, Linda! (It was great seeing you on Dr. Dan's live stream a couple days ago, by the way.)
singwisevocals Ha! Karyn, that was fun and feel so privileged to do 😊 but boy , I was so nervous my heart was pounding in my ears!🙉
Very good set of advice! Thanks!
You're welcome.
I get more out of practice when I am physically ready before I start. I can't sing well when I am hungry, and so I need to eat something about an hour before - and it must be food that provides sustained energy and doesn't irritate the stomach. Sweet potatoes are good. During the day, I do some breathing exercises without vocalising, often a series of short bursts of S, R or F sounds actively using the diaphragm without stopping until I have no more breath left, or one long sustained audible exhale using those sounds. Stretching out the tongue also helps. And about five minutes of singing through a straw before I start practicing in earnest. I have all my scales and agility exercises on my laptop computer so that I don't need to be near an instrument to practice. What I still find difficult is to recognise when I am overdoing it. My teacher can hear when I have practiced too much and tired my voice.
Thank you for this! You could make a video on how to assess your own voice.
I actually have a whole series on the topic of vocal self-assessment. I have more videos yet to record in the series, which I hope to get to in the upcoming weeks, but here are the first few to start you out: ua-cam.com/video/rwNihUIdUBg/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/3FHA__wJ7RY/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/1YhProQ64c0/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/f4Uetd9ymyQ/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/fHnGYXH-UVg/v-deo.html
Thank you Karen, sooo useful x
You're most welcome!
So should I practice by just singing the songs I want. And will that help improve my singing voice overall?
I think it's always important to incorporate vocal exercises into our practice times. Vocal exercises drill specific skills into our working technique. You don't need to go through a half hour of exercises every day, but if you pick one or two that target the skill(s) that you need to develop, then that will actually help you sing the songs that you're going to be practicing afterwards. Simple vocal exercises help because they isolate a give skill and help you focus on just that one skill, whereas songs tend to throw a lot of different types of technical challenges our way. But then we also want to make sure that we're practicing songs that meet us where we are right now as singers (e.g., not too easy, but not to challenging to the point where we're not ready to be singing that yet and we risk singing it in an unhealthy, injurious manner). Singing songs will challenge you in different ways and it will help you put into practice the skills that you have been drilling into your working technique. So I believe that singing both songs and exercises is important to our development as singers.
singwisevocals thank u 😁
May I offer the advice of making sure you pick at least 2 or more songs that you love, yet feel incapable of. You have to tell your voice that you are intent on singing more challenging songs, so that it helps you get there. It's very similar to exercise in that you must work for that additional rep or work with slightly more resistance. There's no getting around the importance of going to the next level. I'm singing songs now that I couldn't go anywhere near before.
I think that's fun idea and useful goal.
Hi Karyn, do you know how to deal with allergies for singing? I'm allergic to dust mites and don't sneeze or anything that much for the past 2 years from it, but I still get congested in my sinuses. I use the steam inhaler almost every other day, which sort of helps, but then it's back again the next day.
I, too, struggle with year-round allergies to dust mites (and mold). In addition to using dust protection on your mattress and washing your pillow and changing your sheets often, nasal irrigation might help. Watch that you're not disturbing the dust on your furniture when you dust and sending it into the air (i.e., use a damp cloth). My allergies are so bad that I have to take antihistamines year-round. It's not ideal, but it's better than the alternative.
What's the alternative? I've taken nasal sprays and that helped temporarily with the sneezing and other symptoms for a while. I've seen a video where athletes get this thing put up their nose which is like a balloon then they quickly take it out and clears out the air passages. This is the video /watch?v=ww9OORqRKTU, thought it'd be interesting to see if singers can use that as well.
Does antihistamines help keep your sinuses clear as well?
Have you tried the neti pot? It takes getting used to, but I get many fewer colds and overall my sinuses are much less congested. I like it because it's cheap, I just boil some water and pour that into a glass container then add salt. When cool I pour it into the neti pot. It can be messy if you're learning how to use it, so try it over the bathtub where you have lots of room to spill. I would add that the neti pot is multi-times a day thing. I use it in the morning and in the evening, and maybe if I've been de-dusting the house my eyes will get itchy and I start to sneeze, and a saline rinse with a neti pot halts all that. My boyfriend finally tried it after not liking the claritin head-fog. He finds it remarkable in that without neti pot, his head is so waterlogged the spring that his sinus drip in front and he'll sneeze endlessly and his throat is very sore. The neti pot is yet more liquid in the sinuses, but somehow maybe the salt concentration is better. He feels better with neti pot right away in his spring allergy-time. I did have a rhinoplasty (deviated septum) and my surgeon strongly advised me/everyone to do saline rinse, all the time, not just for post-surgery recovery.