High End AUDIO CABLES ? WTF ??
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- Опубліковано 3 гру 2023
- #audiophile #highendaudio #homeaudio
Well Tribe, here it is.. lets get to the bottom of the cable thing.. Not only am I going to make a claim that a power cord will make a difference, I will offer it to you in order to prove and back up my mouth. 40 pieces available at wholesale cost. Go to 11stereo.com and you can grab them there.
Here is the Link !
www.11stereo.com/product-page...
Got my Nemesis today…beautiful looking and so far, beautiful sounding cable…wait til’ it gets a few hours under its belt…cheers y’all!
You wading out into the tall grass now! Frought with danger, perils, & unknowns. You the man, bro! Your hide is thick, your heart is strong! Lol
Thanks Marty...
I'm using USA made Belden cable that's used for communications. They are made to very strict specs due to the sensitive equipment they are used on.
I think with cables is about finding that needle in a haystack. The top of the line cables from one company don’t necessarily translate to the best synergy. You can get away with a cheaper than other manufacturers TOTL cable without losing transparency but there’s a threshold though in audio equipment that needs to be resolving enough to know if a cable is serving as bottleneck in the system
Well said..
Glad you spoke on this Mike
Thanks Lou.
cheers Mikey love the build quality on your cables another great review cheers🙏🙏🙏
Much appreciated
10 gauge Belden copper from Blue Jean on my systems. I did pay a premium for real glass Toslink cables. My wife sold five digit price cables for industrial robots for ten years so we have inside knowledge. I snuck in a gold plated AC outlet when she was in Japan on business.
Oddly, I've heard that AT&T fiber optic cables are the best for Toslink applications. But finding them is difficult, not to mention very pricey.
We value your opinion Mike. Glad you're here giving us real answers.
Thanks Charles !
great idea, gonna build myself a silica isolated cable! ;-) seriousley you make me laugh, and inform me too, tks!
Have fun!
Thank You and Thank You for being true and honest. I have been researching the hi-end products and yes, most are definitely way overpriced. Big Toys for Big Boys. Unfortunately for me I require to win the lottery, for me to enjoy my hobby.
I still own my 1979 stereo system, along with a few other pieces. The real reason that there are thousands of speakers out there...EVERY PERSON HAS A DIFFERENT HEARING RANGE. Even after educating yourself in what's the best sound system, you'll still be debating, about improvements.
Im listening to u right now using 10 dollar jbl earphones, sounds incredible.
Its actually quite believable !
Agree with a lot of hype. As I have an integrated amp with power D I was looking for a power cable that would make the amp smoother and found a Vermoth cable that is made in Bali for an affordable price . The first question the owner of the company asked me was what amp I had and he recommended a cable that was in the medium price class. The owner told me he checked many cables did a lot of research and came to the conclusion that the cable products from Taiwan were better than from Japan. The cables are made by hand and to order.
Great !
haha you had me at sandbox and cat turds. Still traumatised by these mysterious clumps of sand I had to deal with in my pit as a child
I know , right ? I used to crack them open and smell them when I was little..
😂
Happy with my cardas clear reflection 🎉🎉🎉 good value
Wonderful!
Mike - A total question I have from a space of me just lacking the knowledge and experience. - Could there be an instance where someone prefers a certain totality or performance from a certain speaker or amp individually that may not pair well together based on impedance, but then be able to use that cable to bring the amp and speakers they prefer together?? Thank you
Sure. Certain people may like the sound of mismatched gear. It may not be particularly good for the life of the amplifier however...
@@OCDHIFiGuy Roger that.. Thank you :)
I have heard cable differences that were measureable from the phono cartridge to the phono preamp. I've never heard a difference in speaker cables but I haven't done any comparisons on my own. I find it hard to believe there can be much difference, but I have no experience with it so whatever I imagine will or won't happen is meaningless.
Good video in my opinion. Thanks.
Thanks, it depends on the system. In some, the cables make or break the sound. I dont like that ....
Keep up the great work Mikey. 👍
Thanks, will do!
And what sonic attributes will the cable bring over stock?
I'll make no claims. You decide.
@@OCDHIFiGuywhy not? I'm confused.
I'd pay lottery money for Mikey's cables. He's an engineer par excellence 😅😅😅😅
LOL, it does NOT take an Engineer to beat one...
A lottery ticket costs only a few dollars. Is that what you're saying you'd pay?
I've always liked Cardas. I like the Clear Beyond line. They are pricey, but not ludicrous. They sound great in my system and I'll never change them ever again. Buy once cry once. I agree about the 10K rule. That's crazy that MIT sells 40K speaker cables. I also feel like Shunyata cable pricing is getting silly.
VERASTARR Cables outperform Cardas IMHO, and cost less ! ;-)
@@OCDHIFiGuy Roger that!
I recently upgraded 16 gauge silver wire to 14 gauge speaker wire.
I slathered Furutech Liquid Nano on the new wire. Then, used my fingers to spread and even rub-in the liquid into the wire.
I’m anticipating an ever so slight warming of the sound output because of skin effect.
I like how FLN works on my contacts and makes my music sound smoother and less sharp.
Seems to balance out my system.
Thats great. My response would be that one should not need a fluid on cables to tame the sound.. It should be well balanced from the get go.. ;-)
@@OCDHIFiGuy
Experimentation is my answer to my eternal question: What if?
Verastarr! Hot Rod Audio! That goes back a long way. Any plans to sell interconnects or speaker cables?
Youve been around Brother, thanks for following my brands ! Both are coming, along with Ethernet and USB
Good points.
Glad you think so!
Awesome shirt man...still trying to get u to go see Phish
Some day !!
Can you use the cable with the PSM 156?
Between 156 and your gear..
@@OCDHIFiGuy What about between the 156 and the wall? What PC would you suggest?
Great shirt
Hey NOW !!
What was the name of your Amplifier company in California?
AB International otherwise known as AB Systems.. We made Cinepro and JSX. Company was started by Bob Byrd and George Anderson that came from Altec Lansing back in the day.. It was in Rocklin and Roseville before that.
Vibranium alloy cables sound the best.
Admantum (the same metal that Wolverine’s claws are made from) would be even better! 😂😂
My new cable company. Cat Turd Cables. CTC Technologies.
lol, DO IT !
Van-den-hul 102 for interconnect and 2 runs of large gauge to the speaker to halve the effective length. Nothing over £150. Not prepared to spend car money for wire. Mains are Kimber plaited/interwoven, wattgate 320 terminated IEC.
Buy used... great idea..
Have you tried any audio envy cables?
Nope..
There you go
Hey Mikey. What is length of cable?
it says 5ft on the website
5 foot, sorry !
Gazillion years ago, MIT cables were often used to match Spectral amps to Wilson speakers. Most probably a fad back then.
Probably...
Do You have a clue what MIT does to further the state of the art?
Just as one of my cables went 'wonky' today!?
There it is !
Mikey, what is the Conductive/Pecking order of Best Metals for Wires and Connectors! ✌️
PS: If you had an Unlimited Budget would Gold Wiring be Best! 😁
Silver>copper>gold and no. Gold is to prevent oxidation. It is not considered a good conductor..
@@OCDHIFiGuy So that's why they put Rhodium coating over Silver Jewelry and Watches to prevent Oxidation! 😉
Say Mickey I purchased royal triple crown speaker cables by siltech cost 71k and they made my b&w 606 s3 speakers cost 1k sound better haha j/k I would spend that 71k on digital front end from playback design dream player and have 40k left over Cable game takes advantage of our hobby don’t get me wrong cables do make a difference but not more than the speaker the electronics please Thank you for being 💯 Mickey. Gabriel
What annoys me the most is when manufacturers and people start talking about the "Skin Effect" of the cable. What a load of rot. Lets get one thing straight people, skin effects on cables start to come into effect in the MHz and GHz and up - region , no where near the kHz of audio spectrum. If you want to do your own research, then ask an electrical engineer.
In my mind the most important aspect of a cable is 1 ) its geometry 2) its dialect . Quality metal is obviously good but not as important as 1 and 2. Bal vs single end is also a factor.
That's why I always prefer ribbon cables AND the same Brand. One cannot create uniformity with diversity, have one brand of cables in your system
You are making a case for my foils... I agree..
Get SOME!
Yeah Baby!
Are you gonna have speaker cables?
Yes. Up next..
@@OCDHIFiGuy cant wait!
There are countless anecdotal testimonies regarding the differences that people can hear between different cables. But I've yet to see a truly scientific comparison using precision measurements. I've seen a reference system that used home-made speaker and RCA cables that were built from a 100' length of Woods Extension Cord from Home Depot. The banana connectors and RCA plugs were from Parts Express and the system sounded great. Would there have been a vast improvement if he swapped those cables with top of the line Nordost or Cardas? Maybe, but he found what he needed and didn't have to pay ridiculous amounts of money for it. I definitely think there's a difference between balanced connections and unbalanced RCA connection due to the current, but the brand and price of the cables used likely doesn't change their function in any radical or transformative way. To reiterate, maybe they do, but I'd like to see tangible evidence through scientific measurements rather than anecdotal advocacy.
Nobody gives a shit about measurements. It's music. We care what sounds good. Just like your Home Depot buddy... so buy what sounds best.
@@OCDHIFiGuyWhile measurements don't guarantee good sound, and while I agree with you that the sound is the only thing that counts, I think that the man who asked for measurements has a good point.
The measurements would not be to determine if the sound is improved. The measurements would be to determine if the cables or power cords are doing anything at all... whatsoever.
I believe that I have heard a difference between cables that I have owned in my system. But how do I know for sure?
How do I know that it's anything more than my opinion fueled by my desire?
Yes, we can refer to blind tests. But blind tests aren't always definitive. In any group shoot out blind test that I have read about there are always some participants who don't agree. They hear it differently.
According to the rules of logic, for a premise to be true it must always be true. If in any instance it is found to not be true, then it is a false premise.
Then there is the fact that for blind tests to be valid, they need to be double blind because studies have shown... to a statistically significant degree... that the bias of the person (scientist) conducting the test can definitely influence the results.
When's the last time that you have read that any blind testing of any HiFi audio component, accessory, or tweak was in fact double blind testing?
Please note that I am not denigrating the "what- sounds-good-to-you" advice. That's the absolute best advice. In that regard, measurements are very far from being a determining factor. "Trust your own ears" is ever and always the HiFi audio motto.
I am using Duelund 16g speaker wires and 20g interconnects recommended by Jim Smith of Get Better Sound (a man whose opinion is definitely worth taking into consideration).
I fitted them with WBT Nextgen connectors.
These are VERY inexpensive cables.
To me they sound great.
But are they great sounding cables objectively?
Or do they sound great to me because they were so highly recommended by Jim Smith who is so highly regarded in this field of high end audio...
or, perhaps, because they were so inexpensive and I want to believe that there are very inexpensive solutions that perform as well as very expensive solutions?
Who knows?
@@OCDHIFiGuy It's not so much the measurements that are the point, it's the cost of cables and the ability to afford the testing of numerous models to find what works. If a measurement system is created to accurately determine the performance of any given cable, it would save a lot of money. Particularly if identical results are shared between cables with drastically different costs.
I don't understand. How is selling $500 power cables a "solution" to anything? What's the problem in the first place since it's just 5 feet of wire after miles of standard Romex and wall socket just a few feet away?
Just because some people sell cables for thousands of dollars doesn't mean they do anything special just because a few people decide to buy the stuff. Likewise, $500 isn't expensive but likewise unlikely to be doing anything special either.
LOL, how misleading your moniker name is.. You are absolutely NOT a High End Audio guy, if you dont understand cable upgrades and especially if you give me the Romex in the wall objection.. There is not "a few" people buying, there are tens of thousands.. and there are not "a few" people selling cable upgrades there are literally Hundreds of companies making and selling them.. and yes, the fact that so many sales happen, in fact DOES mean something special is happening. Otherwise you are pitching me "mass delusion" LOL. Im sorry to let you know that this hobbies truths do not revolve around your belief system. I do however thank you for your opinion, and welcome you to share it. The proof is in the market that exists for cables. Why dont you look up pricing on NORDOST ODIN III cables.... $30K per half meter... smelling salts***SNAP***
I agree. these $500 cables are not a solution. They cost very little to make. he's just like those other companies, except without any of the good reputation, engineers or prestige. he's a total scammer.
Good equipment should be good equipment! Cables should at best make things better! Yes some equipment works better with other stuff. But you should not have to make excuses for things sounding bad at any time just because a certain cable is not being used.
Very true!
Cables can't possibly make anything sound better. The best case scenario is that the signal will pass through more or less unmolested.
@@EskWIREDAnd the least conductor 'molestation' is delivered with good purity silver conductors.
Insulations (dielectrics) are another whole rabbit hole.
We all do things the way we prefer to do them. I don’t care to be told what I do with my hifi is wrong or correct. I will continue to do what I prefer to do based on what my ears hear and tell my brain. Pretty simple. Listen to your ears, your brain and your heart before you listen to opinions on social media platforms. My 2¢.
Lol. Free will is an amazing thing, isn't it ??
@@OCDHIFiGuy I agree. When there is no pebble tossed nor wind to blow…very mysterious.
For the entire cable loom, I would spend 20 grand retail
There you go. A Realist.... Thanks for your feedback to give clarity to others that dont quite get it..
Morning everyone from tropical Scotland 😁 wish people would do more videos about the power coming in etc, those wall sockets look interesting and I have been contemplating getting one, would this be a worthwhile thing to do ? I have naim 72 pre and a naim 180 power amp and after axpona will save to get the external power supply, naim doesn't like the audio grade power strips ( the mids and highs suffer ) so plug the strait into the wall, I live on a housing estate so the power grid isn't the best hence would the wall socket help ? As for cables just use your ears stop when you don't hear any differce Anyway please stay safe everyone and merry Christmas and a happy new year when it arrives 😁😁😁😁
I found the Grahams Hydra worked best for my NAC72/Hi-CAP/NAP140.
@paulmorris1225 I'll have a look at it thank you 😁
Id recommend a Puritan Audio Labs PSM156.. It will make a difference regardless what Naim says.. Try it, its made right there in UK..
@OCDHIFiGuy thank you will take a look 😁
@@OCDHIFiGuycosts aside have you considered that there are far higher performance technologies for power than the Puritan?
What do you think of the influences of Audioholics stance on cables?
Gene has his group just like his polar opposite Ted Denney... I dont listen to Gene, so I dont know what he pitches other than what I understand to be disbelief in cables
@@OCDHIFiGuy
His schtick is irritating!
His followers are real sheep about to fall over a cliff.
Glad you’re the black sheep.
He’ll never be able to achieve a true transparency in music…he and his followers loss.
I bet his home system sucks.
Mike💯%☕️😁
Thx !
I have a bunch of the Verastarr silver foil power cords and they are amazing and a fraction of the cost of those "high-end" brands - HIGHLY recommended!
Thanks for Sharing Cole... it's better than me saying it.... ;-)
I speak the truth sir - btw, its Jason from AZ, need to catch up soon!@@OCDHIFiGuy
The reviews that I found of the Verastarr power cords... the Grand Illusion... listed the price at $2500. Do you think that this is a reasonably priced cord?
Yes, of course Mikey isn't making them new right now but I have bought several used@@peterborelli3877
Blue Jean Cables, you are all welcome.
That's one way to look at it...
I didn't agrre with your Pro Audio video.. !00% agree with you on this video. Thanks for the content.
Thanks for sharing..
Well designed cables will always sound the same!😮
The important design considerations are the inductance,the capacitance,😮 and the resistance. If done correctly the sound will be neutral.🎉
There you go.... ;-)
Transparent and MIT are the companies that make speaker cables and interconnects that allegedly match impedance s interactions or differences of components by calibrating the networks in their cable s . The video claim s all that might be needed to bypass these networks is a exact impedance match between amp and speakers and that's a smart strategy to bypass such an expensive product that has at least some truth but how many times have reviewers in audio magazines connect a tube amp that has a 4 ohm tap connected to a 4 ohm speaker and prefer the sound of the 6 ohm or ohm tap that doesn't match the speaker s impedance?...that's because impedance in a speaker changes with frequency so it's not the same at different frequency s so it might be worth investigating if the network boxe s on transparent speaker s are that intricate of a design that addresses different resistance at different frequencies between the amplifier speaker interface and matches all frequencies impedance between the two ...if it does and listening test confirm a noticeable improvement Mayne the product is worth it to people with deep pockets looking to get squeeze out every last ounce of performance
Sure. Then let them eat cake. I'm not buying it.
99% pure silver (Litz configuration or better) is the only highend conductor on the market. Everything else is just an inferior solution for screwing people. Copper is mid-fi, and we are talking about strict physics here. TaraLabs has the best copper... still not giving me the low level details as silver can.
I use 99.97% purity silver with a polished surface.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I know. Thank God, You know your shit. If I where located in US, I would visit You every year. OCD is awesome.
Silver cables anyone?
Lol. They got the message. Nearly sold out now.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I was thinking of some of the cables that Audio Note offers. Truth be told though, I have a lot of respect for Audio Note; who am I to say that silver doesn't make an audible difference. I just can't afford pure silver cables.
So Mickey my system is simple one bal audio cable pair from my atc active speakes to my playback designs dream player and 3 power cords they are cardas cables I think they have good quality cables for good fair price that’s the kind of company I like to do my business with all to often in the hi end their are a lot of companies that try and take advantage of certain individuals in this hobby it about the music first and foremost I’m happy listening to my KEF LS 50 2 or my music from my car I just love music all kinds I just stumble on this bad the cannos awesome tidal is awesome so are all the he streaming 24 but hi res music is first and foremost this is a hobby fun one if you don’t let it take over you sanity which I have seen and witnessed first hand. Gabriel.
Thanks for the feedback Gabriel..
$10K cutoff seems very generous... I would cut it off at $500 tops... Would never spend more than $100 for any cable, period.. and I have undergrad and graduate degrees in electrical engineering and computer science !
Lol. How much would you spend on speakers ??
Your not getting a lot of pure raw metal either be extremely pure low gauge copper or silver for $100 let alone pure copper connectors ptfe which is Hella expensive raw high end wbt silver solder ... Not to mention cost to build the cable.
@@OCDHIFiGuyI'd spend MUCH more for speakers that have the greatest impact for the money over speaker wires. working as an electronics technician on a system that needed to track and shoot down a 1sqr meter target. None of those cables cost what these hifi cables cost, properly shielded and grounded is all you need.
@@OCDHIFiGuy Granted there are some excellent speakers out there. The very expensive speakers are priced so because not only because of the cost of the drivers but more so because of the excellent cabinetry, exotic materials, some expensive crossover components used but primarily because the volume of their sales is so low. B&W, Focal, KEF etc sell 1000s of pairs of their sub $5k speakers but very few of their more expensive designs. Manufactures like Wilson Audio who do not have much exposure to the “mid fi” market have to amortise their cost over fewer pairs. This same this applies to expensive crossover components.
The drivers from Accuton, ScanSpeak, SEAS, RAAL, Dynaudio, Focal, Morel aren’t that expensive for OEMs. Typically I estimate that OEMs pay about 1/3rd the retail price so a woofer that SEAS sells for $200 on Madisound is probably sold to a manufacturer (for example let’s say Joesph Audio) for $65. This is not unfair. It’s perfectly fair business practice.
So a pair of speakers that retail for $5k will have drivers that cost the manufacturer about $400-500. The rest goes in crossover parts, cabinetry, shipping, insurance, overheads, dealer margins, warranty claims, etc.
The same thing applies to wire. However if you have access to the source it’s much easier to DIY wire than speakers and amplifiers (although these aren’t that tough to DIY either). In my experience you can DIY a loudspeaker or amplifier for about 30-50% of its retail price but you can DIY some of the exotic wire for 20-30% of the retail price.
Additionally speakers (at least all dynamic drivers, planars and ribbons) convert electrical energy to mechanical. This process is lossy and prone to several types of distortion. Hence the justification to spend 3x more on loudspeakers than wire makes sense. Wires transfer electrons from source to destination. Yes they need to be properly shielded, have adequate gauge, and made of as pure metal as possible but they don’t have any moving parts and do not covert one from of energy to another (unless you include the small amount that gets converted to heat).
Good wire from companies like Mogami, Supra, Canare and Sommer and connectors from Neutrik and HiCon are adequate for most use cases.
It is always laughable to hear people tout their degrees as if they mean anything and as if every other electrical, mechanical or whatever engineer agrees with them.
J gold,silver,copper the lighter metals conduct horribly
Silver is the best conductor. Google it.
"Cables don't really make a difference. Here, let me sell you some cables for a thousand dollars....." Give me a break. If cables in general add flavor, why would I buy YOUR cables? You don't do a very good job describing what flavor your cables actually add to the sound. For the record, I believe cables absolutely add flavor to the sound, but I'll stick with my Synergistic Research ones. Try harder, Mikey.
LOL. I started by saying Cables do make a difference.. open your ears and stop trying to sling shit and be right. Next, unlike others in the industry, Im not gonna blow Sunshine up your skirt and tell YOU what YOU are going to hear. Clearly you need a showman, and you picked the best song and dance in the industry, Teddy.. so the right pitch matched the right buyer.. Ted thanks you for helping buy his 2 Ferarris, 3 Ducatis and $4M house.. Im not motivated to "work harder" to take your business from anyone else..
How about cables of ENTIRELY different technologies that IN REALITY offer Deep Performance Gains?
@michaelcollins2473. you're absolutely right. this guy thinks he's slick and sadly there are so many newbies and suckers out there that just want something to believe in and they fall for this trash. the whole thing was a setup to a pitch. and he acts like he's doing charity work. he's still making a profit from his cables.
I would have included a new "HiFi" 15 or 20 amp electrical socket to plug it into.............
for a limited time, of course. :)
Then the cable would be $600, wouldnt it ?
@@OCDHIFiGuyit was a joke on the sales pitch..."for a limited time", you know like QVC.
You cant impedance match the speaker to the amp. Its fractions of ohns to 2.7 ohms to 30 ohms, so technically it is misconception....
OK. So it's still a circuit box in the middle of a set of speaker wires, isn't it ?
How about those that CANNOT grasp advanced signals analysis and COMPLETE UNADULTERATED TRANSMISSION and it's applicable advanced circuits stay with their broken signals overpriced cables and hyped designs that deliver little more than broken hopes and dreams that lead to more and more leaving the hobby. I get many can't afford what is TRULY BEST but at least telling them THE Whole TRUTH would be honorable and helpful