This is really interesting and a little satisfying to hear. I’ve demoed a boatload of CD players and DACs especially recently, and have owned quiet a few but my last two were EMM labs and now I’m waiting on my MPD-8 to arrive. I knew nothing about any of this. I just trusted my ears. I’m an electronic systems numb skull and ears is all I got no matter how much technical explanation is used to prove anything. And I seriously auditioned the DCS, Esoteric, Audio Note, MBS and others and they all had their strengths but the MPD-8 was the one that had it all for me. Mike has seen my (nerd) notebook. I’m no reviewer but I’ll just say it does all the hifi gymnastics stuff you want but it doesn’t march to the digits. It can groove if you get what I mean.
So Nagra is charging 60K for a Dac that is 3 generations behind!!!! Thanks for acknowledging Ed Meitner and Emm Labs, it's about time cause he also plays an important role
Mikey, seriously good info! I still have questions on your NAT brand. I will call you in the very near future for more info on their products. Keep rollin" the good info. So glad I found your site. Truly eye opening.......🙃🙃🙃
My 20 cents: the Chipset Nagra uses in their top level DAC might not be the highest in the line from PBD, but there is A LOT more to a DAC than the chipset. Tube output stage, external PSU, the list goes on. Personally a big fan of Meitner stuff (I own one of their pieces). Only heard the PBD stuff at shows and therefore can‘t really judge its sound…
Exactly, the conversion circuit is only a fraction of the design. And the newest circuit of chip isn’t always the best. Many high end dac’s use older chips and circuits.
You are correct, but no matter how good it is a power supply and analog output stage can not take care of pre ringing. Only the way the filters work can. so you can put lipstick on a cow, and its cuter than a pig, but it still smells like barnyard.
Any idea on timeline for the more entry level offering? Thanks for the info, Mikey. Personally, I’m also a little curious about EMM Labs being that they’re up here in Canada. Is Meitner stuff these days as good as it was before, relative to the competition?
Nice video Mikey that is very interesting information. I kind of knew some of that but didn't realise where the OME module set in the grand scheme of things. 🎧🙂👍
I learned a long time ago that if you figure out who the OEM guys are you will end up with a much better view as to what really happens in the industry. Fantastic video example!
Cuz Im an Old dude thats not in touch with current words, but the great part is I dont care at all !! lol... My hair color is "I dont give a shit grey"... LOL, Thanks for the feedback perhaps you can keep me in tune with whats up...
Have you thought about visting that MC dealer in Georgia that apparantly sounds a lot better than standard Mcintosh? It would be nice hearing from you, how that compares to the standard MC sound and your overall impressions. (the one that Jay covered) Then you could do a video conference call video to Jay, where you share your thoughts.
@@OCDHIFiGuy Yes anyway. The truth is simply the truth! It's as clear as water. The lie against it is like coffee beans. That's why I drink my coffee black. Because I like it. OMG😂 But it's true. Am enjoying my music. Greetings from the Netherlands Limburg Maastricht and above all continue with High-end. Peace and love.✌🏾😘
Would be great to hear the Playback Designs MPD8 against another engineering based company with little to no advertising and multiple positive reviews: the Holo Audio May.
Great Name dude, what bike is that ?? Ive got 2 levels below MPS-8 for you that are built on the same architecture if you'd like something less expensive. And Ill buy them back and credit you towards upgrade.
@@OCDHIFiGuy Pic is my 2014 MV Agusta F3 800. That is an interesting thought I will ponder; business picking up or not will be a huge factor as I may be worried about other things than upgrading stereo equipment in the short term.
Yea. Very few companies use true FGPA based DACs. Most use FPGA for the DSP and control stage in front of the DAC stage. If the FPGA is big enough it can be updated for the next 10 years realistically. Still got very high software dev cost even with that "low cost chip". I don't really see the point of buying a non FPGA based dac over a thousand when the tech is static and can't be fixed nor updated if there is an issue with the DAC chips.
Listen to Netherlands 🇳🇱 based ecdesigns Power DAC R or S and then see yourself which is more analogue .. yiu will be shocked .. R sells fr 1200 Euro and S fr 3000 euro with inbuilt amplification by resistors ( no tube or transistor) .. fractal based technology fr conversion used in DAC .. never attempted it before anywhere in DAC in world so far …Needs to high end steamer just a normal computer or mobile will do
Stuff knows!!! Authority on SQ! All the foolish manufactures got everything to gain by sending gear to him. Sadly the dealers that sell the gear he reviews use him as a reference.
This was very intresting Mikey thank you for information about this brand! There is probably one company that deservs to be mentiond in the grandfather of digital music analogy that is, Spectral Audio, based in silicon valley Carlifornia est. 1977 they probably is the best transistor audio brand company in the world 😘 and they invented the HDCD.
Nice (marketing) story, but there is absolutely no reason to pay for a DAC more than 1000-1500 USD in these times. Besides I seriously doubt that Playback Designs MPD-8 DAC is good measuring DAC (honest engineering), I bet it has distortions making it sound "full and dense", probably second harmonic is intentionally high. Go send it to ASR for measurement, that will reveal the truth and not stories about genius designer.
The dac measurement movement is for morons who want to convince themselves that their $500 dacs sound as good as more expensive dacs. SPOILER ALERT: they don’t
@@marcinwasilewski5414 Send to ASR?! Lmao! Yeah OK! 🤣🤣🤣 Mikey doesn’t deal with hacks. That guy is poison to the audiophile community. Only fools follow ASR. Exactly right what was said. ASR makes these fools believe their $250 Chinese dac is going to sound as good as a $3k dac. Not happening! Thanks for the good laugh today! Send to ASR…🤣🤣🤣
Great background and information, and really interesting - topics like this are excellent - thank you!
You bet ! Thanks for the support !
This is really interesting and a little satisfying to hear. I’ve demoed a boatload of CD players and DACs especially recently, and have owned quiet a few but my last two were EMM labs and now I’m waiting on my MPD-8 to arrive. I knew nothing about any of this. I just trusted my ears. I’m an electronic systems numb skull and ears is all I got no matter how much technical explanation is used to prove anything. And I seriously auditioned the DCS, Esoteric, Audio Note, MBS and others and they all had their strengths but the MPD-8 was the one that had it all for me. Mike has seen my (nerd) notebook. I’m no reviewer but I’ll just say it does all the hifi gymnastics stuff you want but it doesn’t march to the digits. It can groove if you get what I mean.
Yeah Ivan, you will be EXTREMELY Stoked ! Thanks for your business . MPD-8 AND MPT-8 ! It does not get any better .
Excellent historical perspective and straight skinny on industry insider 411. Thanks, Mike!
Hey WES !! Just had a custy buy MPD-8 and it smoked his Total DAC, but it was 2 down from yours... Holla atta Brotha
I use to sell Meitner gear in the late 80’s and it was always very musical and way above a lot of the other gear at the time that cost a lot more.
You know it !
So Nagra is charging 60K for a Dac that is 3 generations behind!!!! Thanks for acknowledging Ed Meitner and Emm Labs, it's about time cause he also plays an important role
Heck Yes, ED and Amadeus are fun guys to hang with .... and the designs rock...
Mikey, seriously good info! I still have questions on your NAT brand. I will call you in the very near future for more info on their products. Keep rollin" the good info. So glad I found your site. Truly eye opening.......🙃🙃🙃
Thanks Edgar, Id be happy to help...
My 20 cents: the Chipset Nagra uses in their top level DAC might not be the highest in the line from PBD, but there is A LOT more to a DAC than the chipset. Tube output stage, external PSU, the list goes on. Personally a big fan of Meitner stuff (I own one of their pieces). Only heard the PBD stuff at shows and therefore can‘t really judge its sound…
Exactly, the conversion circuit is only a fraction of the design. And the newest circuit of chip isn’t always the best. Many high end dac’s use older chips and circuits.
PBD, does not use a "Chip set" ...
You are correct, but no matter how good it is a power supply and analog output stage can not take care of pre ringing. Only the way the filters work can. so you can put lipstick on a cow, and its cuter than a pig, but it still smells like barnyard.
I want playback designs A/D converter. One day!
By the way MQA was designed in part to address pre-ringing as it such a critical piece of digital reproduction.
I wish I would of known about this sooner
Great.....
I wish my Grand Daddy had been into hifi instead of just drinking and smoking 🖖🏻
Is this just a 1 piece unit? Soo good without a separate power supply? WOW!
Yes, the Psup is very well designed and xformers are wrapped in MuMetal.. ;-)
Hustled is thinking $24k is a bargain lol.
Cost is relative.
You nailed it Andy...
No Richard, hustled is thinking $80K for a damn DAC is worth it ..
@@OCDHIFiGuy I'm married on top of 64 year old ears $80k for any hi fi is not speaking English to me.
@@richardpeters2193 what are you in to as far as interests ? Collect anything ? Like Watches, Cars? Planes, boats? Horses, Hunting ?
Any idea on timeline for the more entry level offering? Thanks for the info, Mikey.
Personally, I’m also a little curious about EMM Labs being that they’re up here in Canada. Is Meitner stuff these days as good as it was before, relative to the competition?
Hi Zac, Meitner is great stuff... Im testing MA3 right now ...
Nice video Mikey that is very interesting information. I kind of knew some of that but didn't realise where the OME module set in the grand scheme of things.
🎧🙂👍
The PBD module from the 6K DAC is in the NAGRA..LOL OOF !
@@OCDHIFiGuy why am I not surprised😂👍
thank you mike
I learned a long time ago that if you figure out who the OEM guys are you will end up with a much better view as to what really happens in the industry. Fantastic video example!
Thanks Steve ... !
Thats why i Love my Chord DAC.
No bad stuff my friend !
You cool Mikey. Interesting insights as always
Very good insight, I have to day their designs are very beautiful though
You ought to hear them ..
Jagra. Lol. Mikey. I used to drive a Jagra.
I love me a Jagra XKR
Damn this dude really said "411" in April 2022
I use it all the time
Cuz Im an Old dude thats not in touch with current words, but the great part is I dont care at all !! lol... My hair color is "I dont give a shit grey"... LOL, Thanks for the feedback perhaps you can keep me in tune with whats up...
Thanks for the lesson, brutha!
You bet man !
Always love your insights.
Y Thanks John...!
Have you thought about visting that MC dealer in Georgia that apparantly sounds a lot better than standard Mcintosh? It would be nice hearing from you, how that compares to the standard MC sound and your overall impressions. (the one that Jay covered)
Then you could do a video conference call video to Jay, where you share your thoughts.
Ill be there later this week. Im not impressed by McIntosh and Focal whatsoever..
Thanks for the lesson!!! I knew none of this, but owned EMs first Bidat that he upgraded to then level 3, so ~ 35 years go?
Yep, that was Andreas.. ;-)
I love the truth no matter what the truth is.....
👍🏾😉🥳
Go Javi !
@@OCDHIFiGuy
Yes anyway. The truth is simply the truth! It's as clear as water. The lie against it is like coffee beans. That's why I drink my coffee black. Because I like it.
OMG😂
But it's true. Am enjoying my music. Greetings from the Netherlands Limburg Maastricht and above all continue with High-end. Peace and love.✌🏾😘
Would be great to hear the Playback Designs MPD8 against another engineering based company with little to no advertising and multiple positive reviews: the Holo Audio May.
He won't review Chinese product.
I will to smoke it alive ...
So my lust after Playback Designs is well regarded then? Good to know in about 2 years my saving for a MPS-8 will be for a good cause.
Great Name dude, what bike is that ?? Ive got 2 levels below MPS-8 for you that are built on the same architecture if you'd like something less expensive. And Ill buy them back and credit you towards upgrade.
@@OCDHIFiGuy Pic is my 2014 MV Agusta F3 800.
That is an interesting thought I will ponder; business picking up or not will be a huge factor as I may be worried about other things than upgrading stereo equipment in the short term.
Have you heard the SPA-8 Power Amp?
Yea. Very few companies use true FGPA based DACs. Most use FPGA for the DSP and control stage in front of the DAC stage.
If the FPGA is big enough it can be updated for the next 10 years realistically. Still got very high software dev cost even with that "low cost chip".
I don't really see the point of buying a non FPGA based dac over a thousand when the tech is static and can't be fixed nor updated if there is an issue with the DAC chips.
Yes, very good insight indeed !
Listen to Netherlands 🇳🇱 based ecdesigns Power DAC R or S and then see yourself which is more analogue .. yiu will be shocked .. R sells fr 1200 Euro and S fr 3000 euro with inbuilt amplification by resistors ( no tube or transistor) .. fractal based technology fr conversion used in DAC .. never attempted it before anywhere in DAC in world so far …Needs to high end steamer just a normal computer or mobile will do
Hi Varinder, I appreciate your enthusiasm but Playback is also like no DAC you've ever heard...
What is price of the 6 series ? How big of a step down for the series 8 is it?
I’d like to know too
6 Series is $15K and its about 90% of the 8 series. Ill always credit you towards an 8 if you buy a 6 and want to trade up.
It's too bad real music isn't on dsd. I wish it was.
I’d like to try playback.
Call me Lowell, Ill hook you up.
Morning Mikey
LOL< Morning !
I wish it sounded more musical and natural
Nagra doesn’t hide the fact that it works with Koch ? I don’t see the point of this video
Thanks for outing Nagra’s B.S. audiofools like Steve Huff are probably stroking out right about now 🤣🤷🏼♂️
Stuff knows!!! Authority on SQ! All the foolish manufactures got everything to gain by sending gear to him. Sadly the dealers that sell the gear he reviews use him as a reference.
LOL, Code Blue....
This was very intresting Mikey thank you for information about this brand! There is probably one company that deservs to be mentiond in the grandfather of digital music analogy that is, Spectral Audio, based in silicon valley Carlifornia est. 1977 they probably is the best transistor audio brand company in the world 😘 and they invented the HDCD.
Yes, Spectral has a great history, dont they ?
@@OCDHIFiGuy Yhea i only here good things about this brand but they should be played with wilson audio speakers and mit cabels from what i here.
Nice (marketing) story, but there is absolutely no reason to pay for a DAC more than 1000-1500 USD in these times. Besides I seriously doubt that Playback Designs MPD-8 DAC is good measuring DAC (honest engineering), I bet it has distortions making it sound "full and dense", probably second harmonic is intentionally high. Go send it to ASR for measurement, that will reveal the truth and not stories about genius designer.
Would love for ASR to measure it from a engineering standpoint. I'm sure its sounds great.
The dac measurement movement is for morons who want to convince themselves that their $500 dacs sound as good as more expensive dacs. SPOILER ALERT: they don’t
@@saturdayboy4454 You are funny boy.
@@saturdayboy4454 measurements are are only part of the story, never said it was the be all of a DAC performance. Same with Speakers.
@@marcinwasilewski5414 Send to ASR?! Lmao! Yeah OK! 🤣🤣🤣 Mikey doesn’t deal with hacks. That guy is poison to the audiophile community. Only fools follow ASR. Exactly right what was said. ASR makes these fools believe their $250 Chinese dac is going to sound as good as a $3k dac. Not happening! Thanks for the good laugh today! Send to ASR…🤣🤣🤣
Like you or not?? Much love!
Thanks ! The Love is what keeps me going !