Follow Up to Blowout Video; Questions Answered
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Making sure that all the facts are correct and well understood regarding my recent blowout of a hookless tyre. Lots of mis information out there so this should put those to rest.
The only hookles system that works is Giant/cadex hookless. Their tires and rims can go up to 8.6 bar in spec. I rode with 25mm at pressures around 6bar no problem. The unfortunate thing is that their tires are horrible when it comes to rolling resistance, it was very noticeable to me (I've used Cadex race tire on giant slr wheels that came with the bike). I searched for tire alternatives but in the end I didn't find a tire on Giants approved list that I trusted enough as I've seen enough posts with tires from reputable brands blowing off. Schwalbe pro one is probably the only tire other that Cadex/Giant I would trust for hookless as they have been in tubeless game for a long time without any records of them blowing off. In the end I got hooked rims and gone back to tubes.
Besides bold marketing claims, hookless doesn't bring any advantage to the consumer. The whole new complicated regulation, testing, tire approval lists, increasing tire sizes, lowering of max pressures way below regular road pressures just so the manufacturers could get rid of one small hook and save on some manufacturing costs. The consumer ends up taking more risk, has to be informed and up to date on latest ETRTO specification, has to pay the same amount for the rims without hooks and buy more expensive tubeless, hookless approved, tires...
This is really an excellent comment, thanks.
"The only hookles system that works is Giant/cadex hookless."
Sure it does, buddy. Giro Donne Stage 6, world tour Giant rider crashes in straight line because her Cadex wheels experience a blow out. She was injured and she took out other riders. And it's all on camera, you can see it in the stage highlights.
@selladore Hookless rims and tubeless tires are just a natural evolution coming forward for decades now. Road bike set ups are just among the last segments to adopt them. Tractors, Trucks, cars, motorcycles, mountain bikes....all of them are hookless/tubeless since many years. Applications are quite successful and spam from wide range of loads and tire pressures to extreme temperatures and rotation speeds. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the concept, quite the opposite. On the other hand, development of products and market acceptance never comes without failures/resistance. That reminds me of the heated debate on disc brakes recently....
@@jffeijao yeah, there's just one problem with your "logic". Typical tractor, car, motorcycle or mountain bike wheel doesn't run on narrow rim width/narrow tyre with 4-5bar pressures. Tubeless/hookless on road bikes is an answer to a question nobody asked.
i have to agree with this, in my case i own a propel advance with slr2 wheels and it cames with ac1 gavia and obviusly tubeless from factory. in the store no one told me about the pressures, so i put them 100psi. the reason to switch to inner tubes was when i had a "big" puncture the sealant obviusly doesnt work, put a plug, push to 100psi and the plug fly like a rocket. with inner tubes also use 100psi, same wheels and same tyres, and in exactly 2 years using like that (tubeless about 6 months and 1 1/2 year ith inner tubes) i havent any kind of problems of blow off. i dont know if thats lucky or what. last day i bought a couple of vittoria next on 28 (ac1 have aboout 15000km) who are in the page of giant compatibility with hoockless and put them 65-72 psi.
is nice to read that giant wheels are safe, because watching this kind of videos makes me unconfident about the system
The MAPDEC video on this blowout- topic was such mess. Don't know what it is, but it seems like he lost the plot quite some time ago. A bit weird because on the one hand he seems to have a more critical approach to the cycling industry but lately he comes up with more and more weird and ill-informed videos. A bike shop that tries to punch above its weight but just lacks the competence for certain topics...
He also said the regular giant tcr (non-pro) as flexy.. 😂
I was rolling my eyes the moment Mapdec said "TL not approved" and it just kept getting more cringe from there.
It was so ill informed that it made me question so many other videos he's put out before for accuracy.
Way to take a big dump on his reputation with a single video.
Anyway. But let's focus on what's good here. Fact that you were able to get conti's attention is AWESOME. For all we know they might even improve their tires for the future or set some sort of new standards that wheel manufacturers can maybe follow / test against seeing as how many riders out there are conti tire fans including me.
It seems to me like he is trying to convince everyone he is the best mechanic in his region. I laugh at the investment he has made into bike service tools. You can have every tool known in the industry it isn't going to help you be the best mechanic. You have to have a bit of common sense and common sense tells me hookless rims and tires are not ready for road bike applications. If I had to ride my road bike at 70psi or less it would feel squishy when cornering and my road bike being only two years old made specifically for crits barely accepts a 28mm tire. There is no benefit to going hookless on a road bike so why even try.
@@charlesmansplaining While I don't wanna dismiss the whole hookless thing yet (I 100% agree there's no benefit to customer performance or otherwise) dismissing what happened at cyclespeed's video is just dumb. I fully get why you and so many others wouldn't touch hookless based on this and other high profile incidents. But I hope these videos lead to either make the system work for everybody, however rare these accidents happen (shouldn't happen at all!) or just ditch it completely. We just need all info and transparency there is, when it comes to safety. That's why a sound person / mechanic would pay attention to it and learn from it rather than ridicule it. If customers are coming to you and saying they don't like hookless cause they saw this video, give them your own perspective instead of lying and leave the decision to them. Say you still believe in the system and stand behind your opinion but not try to lie to seem more knowledgeable. Anyway. All that to say I agree 100%
@@8rk 25mm hookless seems to be rare, and it's pushing the limits a bit too close IMO
@@charlesmansplaining Profit young man, cheaper to produce
Thank you again and good to see that you have managed to get Conti and Extralight to investigate further. Well done!!
Yep, very good to hear!
That MAPDEC video was the dumbest take i have seen on this topic. I am not sure the short term bump in his view count was worth it in terms of long term impact to his reputation. As they say you can work hard to develop a reputation over years but lose it overnight.
It's not the first time, he has a video on Giant that's worth a watch. Can't trust a person that never admits they're wrong when they are ...
What bump? I disagree with him all the time but this channel is dinky compared to his
@@veganpotterthevegan nobody is comparing channels - I like some of Mapdec's videos but recently, he's coming across as a know-it-all. His tone in the reaction video was just condescending.
@im-on-youtube I have no issue with people being condescending if they're right. It's entertaining. And he's definitely wrong often. In the end though, I'm addressing the comment that it was just for views and it's not. He's not really gonna get a bump from a dinky channel like this one.
Agree 100%. I’ve just unsubscribed from Mapdec. I’ve had my doubts about Mapdec for some time! Dunning Kruger?😂
Incidentally, I currently run 28mm Continental GP5000S TR tyres on Zipp Firecrest 404 wheels (hookless 23mm int. width) at 67psi f&r, inflated by a Silca digital track pump (claimed accurate within 1%). Never had any blow off issues but I would LOVE to know their actual blowoff pressure, for peace of mind if nothing else! I’m tempted to just do it but I can’t face potentially destroying a perfectly good tyre and/or rim.
Anyone got any testing data on this? Other than CT of course! I’ve got my fingers crossed CT that you’ve got a defective tyre and/or rim. I really hope that the wheel tyre system safety factor is at least 1.5. That would mean that a rim at lowest permitted bsd (ie just within diameter tolerance) on which a tyre at max permitted bsd is mounted would remain seated up to at least a pressure of approx 110psi.
I predicted people would say "gotta set em up right bro" the mapdec guy is just a shill for this dangerous product to make money on it. Disgusting, i pumped up clinchers and tubs to 125 psi and NEVER have they blown out or come off the rim. Thats the bike industry for you, screw safety i wanna make money, thats how it works
I have to say that everything you've presented in the follow up shows facts as opposed to supposition from Mapdec. On the one hand he comes across as knowledgeable, but in this instance he's made himself look stupid. Looking forward to hearing what conti say. Glad to hear you weren't injured.
Zipp and Enve both recommend a max PSI of 73.5 , I am running 25mm internal width with 30mm Continental gp 5000 S TR at 60-63 psi no problems on hookless. ( I am 85-90KG) Forgot to check pressure yesterday and checked them when I got home. they were at 50 and 53 PSI. no problems at 30 mph or in corners and speed / feel was good. Have gone 50 mph downhill. My understanding is that over 73.5 is a no no regardless of tire size. I would not personally run 25mm tires hookless and tubeless. just my opinion. All my bikes are now tubeless. Fatbike. gravel . MTB and now road. I do spin them and move them around for 24 hours before using them as a precaution and also check the stem and the bead and the tire itself for leaks. If the tire will not hold enough pressure overnight I have resorted to a water dunk tank to locate sealing problems. for the record the conti 30MM are a sweet ride. I like them better than the Vittoria Corsa
Enve's recommendation for hookless 21mm id rim with approved 25mm Conti STR is 6 bar.
That’s a good update and summary.
I’m 82kg / 13 stone 0 in old money. I ran 70/72 on my 28mm tubeless.
On my hookless with 32mm R3 I ran just 48/50 psi. Moist people run too much pressure on this new generation of tyres in my opinion.
Tubeless generally is fine 28mm and over. MTB and gravel also good as tubeless and hookless on over 35/40mm tyres with 22-30mm inner rim width.
How about the dry people, do they under pressurize? 😁
Pretty crazy that you have to defend yourself for following all spec sheets and being within all required margins. It's a clear engineering foul up by one or more company. In my opinion it's a symptom of an overall imperfect design, which is an inherently more risky and less sensible system. All who watch this content are much more in the know.
For our friends, family members colleagues dipping their toes into the sport, getting into cycling, being sold a bike with these wheels, i fear for their safety.
Kudos to continental for picking this up quickly i guess
I just think that this size combination is right on the limit of the technology and that the safety margins are a bit too fine.
@@CyclespeedTours Anything that falls in the "recommended" category means that they have included any factors that could increase or decrease the tire's pressure. Exactly, what he says in the beginning of this video. They wouldn't recommend it if it were right at the at the "limit"
@@CyclespeedTours Actually, I think I now get what you're saying. Could it be the brand/manufacturers in this particular case are going to the upper limits of compatibility? Are they not taking into consideration that this leaves consumers at a greater risk for catastrophic failures?
I hate that you have to justify that your 1 percent possible deviation in air pressure was tested as much as you did. If the bike industry is going to require that level of accuracy, maybe their 6 grand frames should have better made circles made in them as well. Maybe our bearings wouldn't creak.
Shame on the entire industry for any of this nonsense.
At the end of the day I’m sure Mapdec are in the business of selling these rims
Mapdec is wrong on the tyre. He’s right on the fact the inner rim width is too wide for 25mm. 21 requires a 28mm tyre. Main thing is it came off when you were not riding. Stay safe 👍
But still a 25 is allowed by the wheel producer…
@@daniellutz9923 I’d pay more attention to the erto. Look at pro peloton find a team with 21+ internal and a 25mm tyre. They don’t care about comfort and the 28s are heavier. There’s a reason for that.
@@gregkane8635 of course you should. But thats not the solution. If something is this dangerous if you cant trust the manufactures data then we are all screwed and getting scammed by the cycling industry
Saluti on the Giant site there is this recommendation...Please note that the Continental GP5000 S TR tire is apt for use on Giant hookless WheelSystems and is a different tire from the previous generation Continental GP5000 TL tire. Please also note that as per Continental's specifications on rim inner width, The Continental GP5000 S TR in size 700x25C is only compatible with our 42mm deep WheelSystems.
Can't wait to hear what Continental has to say about it. I switched to road tubeless back in the middle of 2019. Initially, it was GP5000 TL on Roval CL50 (hooked). I didn't particular like the GP5000 TL because both tires were shredding hair-like threads from the sidewall and I was told that was common. I also dislike the fact that the tire bead would unmount when it's deflated. This seems to be quite common with the CL50 as I later tested the rim with Schwalbe Pro One TLE (700x28) and the same thing would happen when the tire's deflated.
I have been riding on the Enve 4.5 AR disc (max tire pressure 80 PSI) / Schwalbe Pro One TLE (700x28, maximum tire pressure 95 PSI) combination for the past three years, getting over 10,000 miles and now onto the third set of tires. Unlike the GP5000 TL/Roval CL50 combo, the tire bead stays mounted even when the tire is completely deflated. I weigh 88 kg and I run the tire pressure at 66/67.5 PSI front and rear. Thankfully I have not experienced any blowout, like the one in your video.
Great followup; very keen to learn what Conti/Extralight come back with on this.
Old cutlass bearings?!
Yes! We sell them, mostly in brass
Tubs are so much nicer to ride.
I dont give a damn for 0,5 watts lost over tubeless setup.
Even instalation process is much faster and simpler with tape
True.
Did you ever test the back wheel/tire? ..presumably, same type of tire, same rim profile.. would eliminate a defective tire or rim on the front as the cause.. maybe identified a QC problem... and yes.. from what you've presented you have not established that this is a fundamental problem with "tubeless"... could be a host of different reasons.. defective tire, compatibility problem with rim and tire.. maybe just at certain pressures.
Tangent... I'm about your weight.. ~60 - 65kg (depending how much winter fat carrying 😀)... I run road tubeless, 25mm (hooked) at about 53psi.. went from 80 --> 50 --> back up to 53 for cornering stability and less frequent bottoming out.. but if I'm going to be on gravely roads on a ride I will run them as low as 45psi
the rim is too light ( under 300g ) It flare out under pressure, induce tthe blowout
Maybe. Hard to say.
Original video is gone (private). Did you get threatened with legal action or something?🤔
I sincerely hope not.
No nothing like that. Firstly, it was causing too many arguments, pro hookless against the 'no-hookless' camp, and I was in the middle getting personal attacks, which I can do without. I do crappy YT vids as a hobby, nothing more. Secondly, although I state that I have no idea as to why the tyre blew off, people are pointing fingers left and right, so it makes sense to wait and see what Conti say.
@@CyclespeedTours Oh. That's good to know.👍I would like to see both companies release a statement.
On with our crappy YT vids then.🤣
I personally don't understand the people attacking you over on weightweenies.
If that blowout happened to me, I would be both annoyed and concerned.
I think some of us older riders that used to ride at maybe 100-120psi on 21c tyres, yeah, we are more surprised when a tyre at only 5 bar blows out.
People will always have different opinions on things, no problem. Many users of hookless have been fine, but I think this combination is at the limits of what is possible, which means that the margins of error are too fine (for my liking!!)
Thank you for both vids. You only did what anybody would have done. I think is is STUPID to have a product on the market that only works with specific items. How does the average person know? The wheel should have warning signs on it. Max pressure on the tire is usually 1/2 the amount of pressure it would take to blow off the tire , at fully loaded state. What is wrong with hooked rims anyway?
Well that was rather embarrassing, Mapdec came across as a smart arse and only succeeded in exposing his ignorance. If he has any integrity he should apologise. Would be interesting to see the results using other variables such as weight and temperature. Although, that should be Continental's work.
Time to invest in some flicker-free led light.
Mmm just change the shutter speed alot cheaper.
Why is the blowout video removed?
See below for reasons, but back up now.
Good on you for following up and great that the companies concerned are making the effort to investigate. It seems that, although failures are infrequent, there is still quite a bit of sorting out to do before hookless can be considered bombproof. Why on earth we had to move away from hooked rims is a complete mystery other than companies trying shave a few more pennies out of a market that is already paying ridiculously high prices for goods. How bicycles and parts cost more than motorbikes is, again, a mystery (or is it?).
All very true. And the push to ride lower and lower pressures is not, I fear for the benefit of the rider, but more so that hookless (max 5 bar) can be sold more.
If you buy hookless rims don’t be surprised to find a lack of choice when it comes to tyres in the near future as I suspect the public will shy away from them due to safety concerns leaving manufacturers thinking what is the point. They’ll be the Betamax of tyres…
Quite possible....especially if the lawsuits start rolling in.
The guy justifying hookless owns a bikeshop and he probably have loads of it in his inventory.
That approved tire list is no good. 1 - It doesn't list any sizes for that tire. 2 - Extralite uses the same list across all their hooked/semi-hooked/hookless rims. Which tells me their testing is insufficient.
It doesn't list any sizes because all 5000 S TR sizes are hookless compatible.
@@channul4887 An approved tire list is to safely pair the tire to the rim width. Why is it the ONLY tire with no size specified? Also, this list specifies tested with SEMI-HOOKED. But is used across the product range. The list is not good.
@@SPLSE the instructions are sht, there's no other way to describe it. There are 3 different max pressures mentioned on the 1st page FFS. Good to know which wheels to avoid.
@@channul4887 no. wrong. Check specs for ZIPP. They explicitaly say NOT STR 25mm compatible. STarts with 28mm.
@@mochno1 why would I want to check what ZIPP has to say about their wheels when the wheels in question were made by Extralite? And the tyres in question are 5000 S TR's - which are hookless compatible in all sizes. Avoid telling people that they are wrong, that way you'll look less silly if you fk up like you did here.
I have to say that bloke came across as a know it all clown who just doesn’t get engineering practice at all - good to hear that there will be a (hopefully serious) analysis involving the manufacturer(s) concerned.
Just out of curiosity, why did you take the original vid down?
Good question. Firstly, it was causing too many arguments, pro hookless against the 'no-hookless' camp, and I was in the middle getting personal attacks, which I can do without. I do crappy YT vids as a hobby, nothing more. Secondly, although I state that I have no idea as to why the tyre blew off, people are pointing fingers left and right, so it makes sense to wait and see what Conti say.
@@CyclespeedTours understood, cheers.
That is great customer service from Conti! That tire is going to be a go to for so many riders trying to go tubeless, it really has to work. I will be very interested to hear what the upshot is. I think your bang on, the tolerance sweet spot at 25c seems to be right on the limit of what can be made to work. I consider myself very lucky that my Bontreger R3 26c worked first time with Hunt Aero 30's. It really has been a dream setup in all but getting the tyre on and off the rim which is a fkn pig! I'm about to swap onto some Specialised Turbo 28's and I'm a bit apprehensive, even with the extra volume.
The harder they are to get on the better. Much tighter fit so when they stretch they’ll stay on the wheel. He mentioned these went on the rims easily so I’m sure the rims are undersized just enough to not be safe.
@@SnappyWasHere That has been my experience! I’ve come to appreciate fighting to get the tire on and soap to get the bead up tight.
Where is the original video - I cannot find it now?
I work for Extralight and I demand that you delete videos about blow outs and apologise immediately!
We need to sell these wheels!
😂😂😂😂
Yeah, I saw that "follow-up" video on this, also commented on it. Your demonstration might be on the corners of allowances (as it's the minimum width tire on the table for that rim width) and the maximum allowed pressure, but everything is still on the ALLOWED range.
I do would like to see the same test on the rear tire, but just to understand if it can be a manufacturing problem on either the rim or tire (like a one-off defect), or if it's clearly not enough margins on this.
Personally, I would not run a 25mm tire there, but that has nothing to do with it being on the APPROVED list, and you having issues, if it's there, it NEEDS to work.
Good on Continental to want to do the failure analysis.
I have good experiences with hookless rims, but with 43mm tires, so not comparable here.
For the road wheels I use hooked rims, because I could see not a significant difference to hookless at the time I was ordering them, and had a couple of tires in stock I wanted to run out.
But your video touched on one of my scares, as the though of a tire de-beading on a downhill corner (blowout or puncture) ... I had a blowout with a GP4000 (with inner tubes) and it was super scary stuff.
I now always run tubeless with the foam liners inside to try and prevent debeading.
Yeah, I think I was very close to all the limits on this one, and then just a tiny imperfection somewhere could cause this.
@@CyclespeedTours Close to the limits of allowed is still ALLOWED.
I would expect it had to be a big imperfection, otherwise design margins are not so safe on this...
I’ve always felt hookless was a stupid idea and an unsafe one at that. I’ll never buy hookless rims.
Right you are. Dumb idea it is.
that 'guy' is normally pretty good, not this time
I think when going with hookless the old ways of skinnier tires at max pressure should be thrown out the window. Thanks for the update!
Yeah, I think 25mm hookless shouldn't be a thing
Let us just all go hooked rims bin the hookless trash and forget about it.
Well said, Looks like you've opened a can of worms.
I'm trying to get the worms back in the can, no luck yet!
Hope you get this sorted, its educating many of us 🇫🇮😎
i'd rather lose crr than be dead, that is a point to bear in mind
I just read through the CyberDisc 339 manual, and it says "Following tyres models are tested successfully with semi-hooked tubeless rim" where it lists the GP 5000 S TR. I'm sorry, but what does this have to do with the hookless rims? It lists the max pressure of 25mm (which should not be used in hookless context regardless of what the manufacturer says) of 90 PSI. I personally love hookless, but Extralite is a joke.
Watching this video with your lightning is painful. I had to give up.
How on Earth did you get Continental to respond? They have Black Hole customer service. How did you contact them?
I think the extralite instruction pdf is super confusing. The max psi chart on the right hand side of the doc you referred to said 6.5bar, but over in the text instructions it says never to exceed 5 bar when seating the tyre. Just running this through the SRAM calculator, the tyre is right on the recommended limit. Not having a crack at you at all, but more that extralites instructions aren't clear at all, an am glad to read they are investigating
I agree, pretty confusing.
Of course you’re right that things are tested beyond any recommendations. Here’s how CADEX do it:
HIGH PRESSURE TOLERANCE TEST: First, the tyre is inflated to 72.5 psi (5 bar), an average minimum pressure for most riders on 25c tyres, and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours without blowing off. Next, the tire is inflated to its recommended maximum pressure and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours without blowing off. After that, the tyre is inflated to 1.2 times the recommended maximum pressure and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours without blowing off. Finally, the tyre is inflated to 1.5 times the recommended maximum pressure and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours without blowing off. The final number of 1.5 times the recommended maximum pressure is intended to simulate such extreme conditions as hitting a square edge or a pothole at high speed causing the tyre pressure to increase suddenly. If the tyre has been able to withstand the four pressures for 24 hours respectively without blowing off, it passes the CADEX high pressure tolerance test. For your own safety, please do not inflate the tyre over the recommended maximum pressure or attempt to replicate this test.
My money is on a faulty Conti tyre. They’re shit. But they’ll never admit they’re wrong.
An important note is that Giant says GP5000 S TR 25C should only be used on their 19.4 mm inner width rim: Please also note that as per Continental's specifications on rim inner width, the Continental GP5000 S TR in size 700x25C is apt for use only on the CADEX 42 and CADEX 42 Disc WheelSystems.
The Extralite rim is 21mm inner.
@@SPLSE I was highlighting the rigorous testing not the tyre recommendations
@@harrybbbb Me too.
@@SPLSE Enve says 21 mm inner with 25mm Continental S TR at 6 bar is recommended.
What I find weird is that Extralite included with your wheels a manual that refers to their semi-hooked wheel-tire compatibility. Also, at several points has a warning of max beading pressure of 5bar and at the same time gives a max tire pressure of 6.5. How is this possible? From my understanding the tire's max pressure is a workable/riding pressure and the beading pressure is an absolute max. Even if Continental tell you that it was their fault, Extralite should sort their manuals and test again for compatibility.
thought you explained it perfectly in the first video. The question is, what are the wheel company going to do about it and also possibly highlights the safety of these Conti tyres!
may i ask again
if you install a 28c
will there be no problem at all?
i just want to know about it🤣
thank you
I really don’t know, I haven’t tried.
@@CyclespeedTours got it
Thanks for your response on mapdeck vid. You didn't make any mistake, well, maybe one, you've get hookless rims. I've tried to explain him this. I've never go for hookless rims for road bike, unless we start to use MTB tires 😅
Mapdec is the type of guy that rides hus rims until the spokes break and then he makes a video about it and says that's no issue. I'm not a bike mechanic but I change put components before they fail. That's how it should be.
I think the 25mm tire was your issue If not the rim. As I stated in you last video I've had no issues with my Zipp 404s. All the hookless compatible tires I've used were 28mm.
where is the original video? Did you take it down?
And if yes, why?
Firstly, it was causing too many arguments, pro hookless against the 'no-hookless' camp, and I was in the middle getting personal attacks, which I can do without. I make crappy YT vids as a hobby, nothing more. Secondly, although I state that I have no idea as to why the tyre blew off, people are pointing fingers left and right, so it makes sense to wait and see what Conti say.
@@CyclespeedTours Tks for the reply. Internet fuel is controversy. It has always been this way, just getting worse as everyone is rightfully entitled to an opinion, but most are not capable to accept other's point of view. Tribal age behavior. Related to your incident, statistically a 'sample of one' is not representative, however it can't be ignored. For sure something to be investigated by experts and have its root cause identified. Good luck
WHy they dont put size of tyre ? All other had 28mm or so..this one not. I would recommend contact wheel manufacture.
It would be worth putting 28mm or even 30mm tires, 25 with 21mm internal rim width is way too small, you should either choose a rim with slimmer rim width or go wider tires IMO.
Jay Vine crashed at the Vuelta - but look at his rear tyres -
m.ua-cam.com/video/aJB78dPVxm8/v-deo.html hooked rims wouldn’t do that? The front looks to be partly off the rim too
Looking at the documents for the wheels from the manufacturer states approved tires are tested on semi hookless not hookless rooms. I think 28 are the answer to your problem, but curious what Conti says
Conti will blame the wheel. You’ll see.
The Jury is out on this but it needs further investigation
Probably 25 is too narrow but recommend tyres need to be on the side of caution
The pressure margins are unsafe
I’m guessing it must be a faulty tire situation. You should try the same experiment on your rear wheel/tire to see if it does the same. If it does, it’s most likely the rim
I'm not keen on repeating.a blowout and nor is my camerawoman!
Have you ever tried 28mm tyres by any chance? Just wondering if there’s a reason not to test and see?
A decade ago Mavic was one of the first companies to address this problem. The solution they came up with was to design both the tire and rim together to a more exacting standard called Mavic UST (Universal system tire). I believe UST was a special tire made with a very strong, stretch resistant bead wire, which was not a folding version.
Having the same tyre and wheel manufacturer would definitely be A Good Thing.
Don't matter what you do will always be 2 camps. Pro and Against, we are grateful for sharing , hopefully you can get to the bottom of this issue and find the culprit
I think it's OK to be pro hookless in some applications, and dubious about it for others, specifically, narrower sizes and higher pressures.
Continental sais 25mm tires with max 21mm internal rim width.
Good video, I was going to say you were never 75kg 😂
Did the tyre bead break or could the tyre be used as is ?
Not broken, but possibly stretched so even less safe to use...!
@@CyclespeedTours
You cant stretch a bead many mm before it breaks. Either OK or broken
@@arne6275 That's not what Conti said. It CAN be stretched. Even 1/2mm is too much. They told me to never use that tyre again.
If you care, adjust your shutter-speed on your cam to not-a-multiple of your electric current frequency when using artificial light.
I.e. in 50Hz countries, do not set your shutter to 1/50s or 1/100s. That is where the flicker on this clip comes from ;-)
Oh, and hookless is pointless, no discussion. Run tubeless hooked, there is NO reason to omit that safety standard.
Good to see you are addressing comments. I'm sure there is plenty of people in favour (me included) and against hookless. You have clearly demonstrated that Extralite hookless and GP5000S TR aren't the best idea ;-). I think Extrlight's manual is somewhat confusing. They don't state size on GP5000S TR, this may be a simple mistake. What is confusing is a term they used 1:15 Semi-hooked, does it mean hookless, or micro hooked like the latest Orbea's wheels. I guess there will be another video when you get an update from both companies.
If no size is stated that means all sizes, and Conti themselves quote all 5000 S TR sizes from 25 through 32 as hookless compatible. Simple logic, cuh.
@@hughjanus7354 Looking at Extralite's instruction manual, logic is the last thing which comes to my mind. They are referring to the same rim as clincher, semi-hooked and hookless on one page. Continental test are irrelevant in this context, as Extralite conducted tyre test. They have provided a list of approved tyres, with very specific widths, except GP5k. One wouldn't install, 35mm, or 40mm on this rim, yet there are plenty of hookless compatible tyres in those sizes.
@@Pav_1983 is there a 35 or 40mm 5000 S TR? Or are you just frothing for the sake of oneupmanship?
@@hughjanus7354 Not for GP5k, but if the tyre is not on the list, but it hookless it must be compatible, it is hookless after all? I'm not trying to win argument. This is pointless, especially on YT. What I'm trying to point out is the Extralite's manual is not credible. Especially when they are stating max beading pressure as 5.5 bar, and then two lines below as 5 bar amongst other contradicting information. Have a look yourself: extralite.com/Manuals/CyberDisc%20339%20Clincher.pdf
I think the RF is 1.5 for road hookless. I'd stick with tubs and a bit of additional Crr and less tyre choice than risk a tyre dismount situation on a high speed decent like the Puig.
Just buy hooked wheels.
its the wheels not the tires mate..they're shite
The key here is that 5000 S TR is NOT on the "not compatible" list - forget the compatible list because it refers to semi-hookless, which is what the dense fellah kept using as an argument. The valid argument is, if it's not on disallowed list it's allowed as long as it's hookless compatible and 5000 S TR is. The dense one then couldn't explain why he claims that 5000 S TR is not compatible. It's been a while I came across someone that challenged in the brain area.
go explain that to them. Sure, blowout can happen, and they must be investigated. But why trusting such a small wheel brand, with so many red flags in the instructions to start with. Just asking for troubles IMO. Sure, the tyre may have been at fault, but I bet most of it lies on the wheel manufacturer and its lack of testing.
@@Doireallyneedthis that's not a question for me to answer, I didn't buy these wheels. I'm only addressing the subject of what the other guy was using as an argument to debunk this issue.
PS In fact I'd never buy any wheel from anyone who's not able to write a proper manual, like these Extralite people.
Just to clarify something - the pressure inside the tire is relatively independent of the weight of the rider. A heavier rider just results in a larger contact patch with the ground. The pressure within the tire will change very little (on the order
True that it has only a small effect, but depends on the suppleness of the tyre. If the tyre deforms a lot at the bottom, this reduces the volume of the tyre (because although the tyre also stretches at the top it is far stronger in this direction (tension) so is insignificant.
Imagine a tyre with 10psi and a small puncture. If you push all your weight on that tyre, it deforms significantly and increases pressure, forcing air from the hole.
@@CyclespeedTours You are making this way too complicated. Sometimes the intuitive answer is not the correct answer. Google it for the full explanation.
The Extrlite freehub body use a rubber o ring as pew spring. In my opinion, it is a dead trap. The sub 300g hopeless rim is a daed trap as well.
I’ve been running road tubeless hooked since I got a Giant back in 2017. Rims with Giant 25’s. That was too small. Had Conti GP 5000 28’s that worked great. Could not locate to replace, so put Pirelli Race TLR 28’s on Hunt Aero Light. Even easier and better, IMO. But, the limited option for tires and even a few stories like this keeps me from getting hookless rims. Something has to get better.
What cracks me up is roadies will argue and adamantly point out how important wearing a helmet is and then install hookless rims on their bikes.
And to add. One bad wheel brand and maker does not make whole solution wrong. Remember when some carbon bike frame broke (i think it was SL7 or so). Does it mean all carbon bikes are bad now and we should ban? Common. Try another wheel. You should complain about wheel manufacture not the solution.
Hookless saves the manufacturer money and costs you in safety.
👍🏽
Do let us know what the follow up is from Conti. Super interested in this as I’ve run hookless for a while now.
i just got a bicycle for the first time, and i went with a canyon grail (gravel bike)
It has 40mm hookless carbon rims i found out now. GRC-1600 spline for dt swiss. max psi on rim is 65 tubeless. I hope this will not be an issue for me. This is a stock setup from canyon and i would hope if people had trouble with this issue it would be noticed real fast. But i dont like it when going 30mp/h downhill thinking about this :DD
Google search for Sram tyre pressure guide. You may find that the recommendations will be much lower than the 65 you mentioned. For me on my gravel bike i run less than 30 psi.
How does hookless wheel system cause tyres to explode?
This is not the first time we have fallen in love with a really bad idea.
That guy just wanted to create a controversy to get more views. Don’t worry about him, it’s not worth your time.
I disagree. The low production value, and just the fact that he presented as an enthusiast in his kitchen as compared to a pro in a shop comes off as a guy that just wanted to raise a red flag about a dangerous consumer thing. And the pervasiveness of hookless rims out there without appropriate documentation (think used sales even) makes it a real thing.
@@daveanolik8837 I think you misunderstand Steven - he's referring to the other guy, not me!
@@CyclespeedTours doh! I’m kinda thick in the head 😀
and he turned off the comment section...come on
@@daveanolik8837 no worries. I have my moments too 😊
100%
Why make assumptions about hookless, 25s @ 5 bar when using two brands that haven’t proven themselves in the technology? Go with Schwalbe or Vittoria and a wheel brand with more R&D resources than a small company like Extralite.