Shocking blowout of 25mm hookless wheel/tyre combo
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Unbelievable blowout of a Tubeless ready approved tyre WITHIN recommended pressure on a hookless wheel set. Wheel and tyre have been sent to Conti who have been excellent in their reactivity and some anomalies have been detected that warrant further investigation. Will update.
Putting lives at risk for the sake of saving on tooling cost. Hookless needs to be completely banned by a safety body. WELCOME TO THE BIKE INDUSTRY 🎉
got some zipp 303 firecrests. run with schwable gravel tyres. conti 5k TLR and now schwalbe one. no issues at all. all other tubeless setups l've done no issues too but that was on hooked. ok lower pressure since l'm quite light. but l guess the system is not fit for higher weight rides (as sugestest by that european tyre commision)
Bernard is 65 kg rider.
Not heavy by any means
@@leonschumann2361 I'm a 100kg and I'm running hookles for the past 2 years without any issues at all... ever. I'm using Schwalbe PRO ONE TLE. Before I had Giant tires. However, my mechanic told me Conti GP5000 are crap for this setup and told me not to bring him Contis to put on as he will not do it. LOL
Problem with this industry is zero control and accountability.
Not like the bike industry to cost cut..... press fit BB comes straight to mind. I have seen this happen in pro races.
Great video, I have done countless videos on this subject, I think that there is just too much to go wrong for little to no benefit for the consumer. And only benefit the manufacturers by making it cheaper to make. I will always prefer a hooked rim if I’m buying something.
Too much hidden, conflicting info. This dude made some poor choices. Not his fault as the info is not easy to find. The tyre was too narrow and he went straight to the max pressure with an inaccurate pump.
@@Mapdec Following all manufacturer recommended sizes, product compatibility and pressures are poor choices?
@@eto2352 he didn’t though. 5 bar is the absolute max. And that would be for an ideal combo. The tyre is too narrow and the pressure too high. He also inflated once the bead was damaged.
@@Mapdec you would assume they add some redudency in their 5 bar recommendation though no? surely its not 5 bar fine, 5.1 bar explodes?
@@TheLazyGarden3r max is max. Also tyre bead was already damaged
I took the video offline because things got a bit crazy and people were freaking out and making personal attacks, which really isn't worth it for the coffee money that YT pays. Back online now, hopefully people can react more calmly and intelligently. The tyre and wheel have gone off to Continental who are taking it seriously and at this point we still don't know exactly what caused this, but what is clear is that it SHOULD NOT have happened as the wheel / tyre combo is fine / approved, and the pressure was within the max recommended. My personal view is that hookless removes an important safety element for very little tangible gain and I will not be using them in the future, regardless of brand. I have no idea why YT has removed most of the old comments, (including Peak Torque railing against hookless), and kept some others.
Please do a followup. Thanks.
In my opinion it went too far, where someone sacrificed a safety for some marginal gains. I'd rather ride a tubular tyre without a glue than that silly hookless technology. I think someone should say that something went wrong and everyone should forget that standard. There should be a recall. I guess it will be expensive but that's a price for a silly mistake someone made.
@@esdopedoen517 Indeed, I trust tubulars 100% and never had an issue in 20 years. Hookless can work OK; but it has to be just right, with no room for errors.
I was wondering why this hasn’t got a million views. Sad to hear you had so many haters. It’s these sorts of videos that are real and can help hold manufacturers to account. Hopefully some of the big name channels like CadeMedia pick this one up. Well done
@@treveri100 Thanks. Most were supportive but some got quite nasty,. A guy called Mapdec even made a video trying to denounce everything that happened. He was proven worng multiple times but never apologised.
Are 25mm tires suggested for those rims. The zipp 303s smallest sized tire is a 28
Yes they are. Even 23mm
@@CyclespeedTours yeah go try 23mm on hookless bro it's not dangerous ... lol don't do it
But GCN say hookless rims are great, and they’re always so honest and forthright with their opinions aren’t they - right ?? 😉
Aha GCN is absolutely not the channel to get your mechanical knowledge from.
I don’t think it’s an honesty thing, I think it’s a matter of who gives the ad dollars and gives lots of parts and swag.
@@836dmarexactly right.
As an experienced team mechanic I used to comment on GCN videos picking up on such. They never liked it & deleted the comments.
@@keepitreal1547 They've deleted my comments too. It's sad when we can't even protect our fellow riders. GCN needs to go.
I’ve been riding for well over a year with a hookless zipp 404 with the str with the recommended width of 28mm. No problems. Sorry to see the complications you’re going through, and glad that didn’t happen in the middle of a ride.
Recommended tyre pressure for system weight, recommended pressure by wheel and tyres manufacturers are all different. How can it be
Same, zipp404 with GP5000STR. God the bead is damn tight that it takes me forever to fit it without scratch the rim. Hard to image it pop out for no reason.
Same here. 303 Firecrest, used Schwalbe and Vittoria and will get STR next anyway.
303s with Bontrager Tires - I beat the absolute shit out of them at around 60-65psi
Absolutely fine
I’ve also ridden with guys who’s clincher rim brake wheels have gotten too hot during descents and the tire has blown off
You don’t see many guys saying rim brakes should be banned
Pro peleton are rolling around at 100km/h on hookless rims these days
I’d say the technology is safe as long as you respect it - 65psi in my 28c road bike tire rolls fast and feels fantastic
I'd wager the problem lies with your wheels and their sloppy tolerances. There's also a common sense red flag that too many people ignore for the sake of convenience: if it's (too) easy for your tire to mount, it will just as easily dismount your rim.
Definitely agree with this. Is the rim a measured 21mm internal, is the tyre channel wall thickness uniform, maybe there's a weak point.. Is the rear wheel and tyre combo the same ?
@@Andy-co6pnId wager it’s a dodgy tyre. Conti are experts at making tyres that don’t fit.
@@harrybbbb what I don't get is putting the same tyre back on the rim to prove the point. It's clearly not going to hold once it has already popped off
@@Andy-co6pn Hard to argue with that TBH.
@@Andy-co6pn Of course there was only one way to make this video 😂
That is insane! So dangerous that! Thank you for sharing this.
Are you sure this isn’t a wheel issue?
Yep. Who knows the state of rim, age, how it was inflated in the past etc. I have seen my specialized rim lost tyre with 2 Bar and it is allowed to 3.5 Bar)
Wheels are brand new
I only use tubulars , I’ve had a couple of blowouts over the years , one was 45mph downhill, tyre stayed on as I gently came to a stop👌🏻
Why are people falling for this crap like hookless rims and tubeless tyres .
Come on guys fucking wise up!!!! sometimes things were invented correctly first time, use tubular tyres and rim brakes and you won’t go far wrong.
Hookless is the biggest gimmick in cycling
Hookless rims and tires is an absolute scam and is a shit tecnology. Please change this wheel set and return to the hook models. Good luck man!!
i will stick with my clinchers and tubes. thanks for posting this. i have heard about this before but always assumed that people were pumping up with too much pressure.
Sitting in the peanut gallery with my rim brake aluminium mavic ksyrium wheelset 🥜
Told ya on your last video.
Hookless technology is NOT suited for 25 mm tyre.
Above 35 mm is fine.
Tubs are way to go for shure.
Agree. Continental shouldn't rate the 25 mm as hookless compatible. Like a lot of other manufacturer actually do.
I still dont understand why people would want to go 25c with hookless considering they need higher pressure to work which works against the hookless system of needing low pressure, if you want to stay with 25c, go with hook
@@SiGNALz 28mm is the size you want to go for. and easy 4,5 bar. relax
thanks for being logical and using your brain, crazy how some think 25c and hookless are a match
@@SiGNALz+1000 make no sense , but owner probably wanted to have the weight weeniest shit
Not an expert in Continental for this particular reason - their bead are crap and they blow out. The new S TR is apprently Hookless compatible. Did you use the latest gen?
Not sure, but bought new in Summer of 23.
I'm going to sound my horn who I am as I spent most of my adult career inside the bicycle industry mostly doing tire R&D and design. So I urge everyone, !!!"DO NOT PURCHASE ANY TYPE OF HOOK-LESS RIMS OR TIRES"!!! Plain and simple it is pure Russian Roulette technology. I have lost total respect for those companies I used to look up-to who are now showing their true colors of just going for Suger High technology just for the sake of looking like they are the kings of High Tech Kool, when in fact they are idiots knowingly playing with innocent lives. How do I know? In the past, I did a lot of hook-less research and it is just pure suicide... They know for a fact that bicycle tires can not hold circumference specs no matter how perfect they can produce the tire at the factory. Once the tire is inflated and is put under real live riding conditions those tolerances change, and they know it too... Shame on them.
This is widely spoke about in the group, what’s to stop this happening… hooked all the way😊👍
Hookless rim 👎👎👎
Hookers rimming 👍👍👍
It could be a manufacturing problem with the rim our tire,
Dude. The conti's are the worst tires out there. They don't fit any wheel.
Why risk your life on hookless when their is a perfectly good product people have been using for ages. These bike companies are terrible pushing this crap.
Watch Giro Donne 2023 stage 6, rider crashes at speed because her hookless tubeless Giant (CADEX, which is Giant's brand) wheel/tyre explodes in a straight line. A world tour team run by a manufacturer who now sells most of their bikes with hookless rims can't get this right, how can an average rider be sure they won't get any surprises (answer, they can't).
Thank you for the video I will avoid hookless.
Buying new bike, and after changing rims on clincher tubeless wheels or with TPU tubes.
The problem isn't with the rim type, it's that you're pumping too much pressure. This technology is dangerous when using high pressure with narrow tire! Dot.
If you want to follow the 105% rule, this technology is not for you, forget it.
If you take a 25mm mtb rim and put a 2.2 inch mtb tire there, then pump 4,5-5 atmospheres, absolutely the same thing will happen (tested on my maxxis ikon tires LOL).
In your case with CyberDisc 339 rims, I would use 30-32mm tires and would not risk with 28mm, and avoid 25mm!!!
Agree
And yet, the 25mm is fully approved and to 6.5 bar max......
Thats how things are going when manufactures become greedy. There is no advantage for hookles rims except they are easier to produce. Same things goes with frames. I waiting for the headline SL8 frame break. If you like to lose 200g lets do it in your body not on the frame. actually think UCI should raise the weigh limit to 7.2 kg in order to make safe good long lasting carbon frames and other equipement.
Scary. I've been running hookless for three years. Followed manufacturers advise on compatible tyres and pressures, and have ridden 34K km with no issues at all. But ... the whole rim /tubeless tyre compatibility issue is a minefield and nobody in the industry seems to want to cooperate. That leaves us having to make judgements we shouldn't need to, and carrying unnecessary risk.
I have a feeling all tubeless tires will be hookless compatible in the next 5yrs. That said, most of the tires I'd want to ride are already hookless compatible anyway.
Simple, if it's hookless, don't buy it. Nothing holding it on properly. Market will sell what people buy eventually.
@@iann23 good luck finding hookless wheels for your car😉
@@veganpotterthevegan what car?
@iann23 any car🤷 Outside of very old classics with original wheels, they're all hookless
« It’s within specs »
Well, maybe the specs are shit?
Hookless seems to be just a other improvement - for the producers! Easier to manufacture because of lower tooling costs, but not “better” in any way.
In my opinion (and I could be wrong) it is your tyre. The ETRTO recommends 28mm and their new recommendations is actually 29mm on a hookless wheel. I have 2 set of hookless both are fine, never a problem. Both wheel sets have 28mm tyres. Your tyre pressure is good at 4-5 bar. Hope you get it sorted. Wishing you safe cycling.
I think 25mm tyres on hookless should be immediately ditched as a bad idea. Not approved as in this case.
You are wrong. The 29mm recommendation is for a 25mm internal width. This Extralite rim is 21mm.
@@quwers This is still only 4mm. ETRTO's new standard states that there should be a minimum of a 5mm overlap between the internal measurement of a rim and the size of the tyre fitted to it.
@@quwers it’s a good job I covered myself in my comment so and I stand corrected. Maybe it’s a combination of both the wheel and tyre so. I did check one of my wheel sets and it has an internal of 23mm which I have 28mm tyre with no problem at all with Vittoria Corsa N.EXT. My others are Panaracer Agilest Duro. Anyhow I hope he gets it sorted and has many a safe mile of cycling. Out of interest, could he try a 28mm tyre?
@@GerryAttrick , hi. So the minimum tyre should be a 26mm in this case? I’m sure he could try a 28mm as well.
But I thought hookless was the best thing since sliced bread, and if u didn't like them u were a luddite? Look Mum no hooks! The manufacturers are saving money . Isn't that what it should all be about? Who cares about the person potentially faceplanting at 80kph down a hill and breaking their neck right? .
The issue might not be with hookless rims in general. The issue might be with the Extralite hookless rims you have. I went ahead and read the user manual for the Extralite CyberDisk 339 clinchers and there are just too many warnings and confusing information for me to ever consider buying them.
This was exactly my first thought. Zipp and Enve hookless wheels have been fine for me, literally never head of extralite.
Same thought
Should rebrand to extradangerous
@@leslie7922 extralite-itup
@@leslie7922 Don't yet have absoute proof whether it was the tyre or rim at fault.....
That's why i'm a durianrider fan, he warned us about this hookless shit way before hookless got popular. Cycling industry is so shit unreal...
I have hookless gravel rims because they're meant to be more impact resistance and it felt sensible with my fat ass. 40psi though; essentially what MTB has been doing for years. Wouldn't run hookless on road wheels though, it just feels like an accident waiting to happen (narrower tyres, higher pressure, high speed cornering, questionable tolerances of both tyres and rims...).
In fact it's crazy brands are selling such wheels, because all my Italian friends still inflate their tyres rock hard. If they ran these they'd basically blow up.
I use Zipp 404 Firecrest & Cadex 65's. The Zipp's with Continental GP 5000 ASTR & Cadex with Goodyear F1 R 25mm front & 28mm rear. I've never had a problem with either set.
This is industry's scheming. Create a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Continental had the best tire ever made in the GP 4 clincher. I have used tubeless on a gravel bike for some time with mixed reviews. I tried road tubeless, once, GP 5 S TR and sliced open the tire at less than 700 miles. Hookless is insane, and tubeless, at least on road, is let's just say we know better. Don't you think it is a little concerning that the death of Gino Mader is not being discussed? What happened? Cycling is generally safe, and we love it. But create a "likely" potential problem with wheels, and someone is going to get hurt. Can you afford the next year in a hospital or worse?
Had issues with continental tyres on my Zipps.
Would be interesting to see the results with a different brand.
My monies on dodgy tyre.
the TR version of the GP5000 is much easier to mount than original 5000, go figure...
Wouldn't touch hookless or tubeless tires with a bargpole, death traps.
Hookless is your smallest problem... Those squeaky brakes... Argh!
And who's cleaning the bike? 🤣
The wife.....
Just get some DuraAce C50's or C35's. Great wheels and HOOKED.
Or tubular
Hookless must go! They are made purely to save wheel companies a small amount of cash, no other reason. I won't touch them with a barge pole. Clinchers and tubes for me thank you very much.
I wonder which part was causing the failure. i am guessing the continental tire. my conti tires were amongst the worst in weight fluctuation and roundness. more than half my conti tire had unusable side to side wiggle. i do like the extra width you get from hookless tires but the hooks really give confidence. they are a weakspot though, carbon hooks are scary too, so im on the fence.
tyres were too narrow for the rim. or the rim was too wide for the tyre. apparently.
That’s hookless rims for you, and the reason I only use UST wheels and tires.
You can’t say ”don’t buy hookless” when you have only tested one set of wheels with one set of tires. But I guess it attracts more views
One set of certified hookless wheels with one set of certified hookless compatible tyres failing should be enough for any sane person to have doubts. Especially since this is not an isolated incident. Someone mentioned an accident during Giro Donne this year, have a look at that one.
Exactly!
Damn. My bro science rule is to run hookless with a printed tyre size minimum of 5mm wider than wheel internals. No doubt a shitty thing to happen to you, and glad you weren't on the road
Tubulars for the win 🥇
The engineering of hookless makes no sense, can’t comprehend why anyone would buy or ride this junk.
Oh man. Ive been hookless for a few years and hooked also. Something to watch and fix by makers. This is our worst fear while descending the climbs. I'm always checking tires after each ride anyway ( was taught by old coach) . This should not happen......thanks for posting
If you drive cars or ride motorcycles you know hookless is a risk and makes no sense. IMO
Had to be honest I had never heard of the wheelmaker before ?
Long history of high quality products including MTB
One more comment to add: It seems like a lot of the defenders for tubeless / critics of your process are digging up obscure online technical documents, "Err well is that wheel verified by subsection 34Alpha on page 19 of the revised manual for wheels and tires," arguing that you're 0.1 bar over 'max,' that it may not have been utterly perfectly seated, etc. And yet, even if that's true, which I don't think it is: how many millions of tubed clinchers are in the world with garbage setups, and yet they don't spontaneously (yet predictably) blow off the wheels minutes after pumping. A design which begs for user failure is a poor design, even if it works when absolutely perfectly implemented. And this doesn't even work 100% when perfect.
Exactly
Use the SRAM tyre pressure calculator. You will see that with hookless and 25mm you get a warning regarding tire pressure exceeding rim pressure rating. Either go with hooks or swap to 28mm if you are going to use hookless.
There's a reason why most hookless compatible tires are 28c or wider, but you get lots of stubborn idiots who will insist on running their 23c or 25c GP5000s on hookless rims. Usually tubeless isn't even recommended below 25c, much less hookless.
@@mrvwbug4423 there's a lot of stubborn idiots who work for free on behalf of millionaires running the bike industry, coming up with excuses for every isht they throw at us. Hookless on road wheels is a ticking time bomb solution. Watch Giro Donne 2023 stage 6, rider crashes at speed because her hookless tubeless wank explodes in a straight line.
@@mrvwbug4423 not sure why you'd call names people who follow manufacturer's advice. GP5000 STR is very much hookless compatible in 25mm, as per Continental themselves.
@@mrvwbug4423 Also most problem free hookless wheels (ZIPP, ENVE, Giant) have 23-25mm inner width. Extralight, went extra mile to cut corners and this creates bad name for hookless. Also this video is not very clear, as there was no comparison with different tyre, wheel, ect...
@@Pav_1983Amen! and people base their opinion on a sole video on youtube. Stick with renowned manufacturers such as Zipp and Enve and follow their tire chart and ultimately the tire pressure for hookless application
Good to show this. I want to build my own bike next year and this type of technology is not safe. There are to many parameters involved. For example both rim and tire tollerances, maybe some latex came between the rim and tire. And what to think about temperature and aging? If temperatures get higher both rim and tire can become a bit more softer or flexibel creating conditions for a blow out. There should be plenty of safety margin especially for consumers.
Aging is an important point that I had overlooked. Rubber decays over time so how safe is your hookless after 1 or 2 years?
As a veteran rider of 45 years on the road, and seeing all the developments some good, some bad within the Industry, this one is by far the worst and most dangerous.
To add to your entirely legitimate view, I'm an old-timer (74) but still love doing 100km rides, weather and trail/road permitting, and I'm running a 32c on the rear, but have Mavic A319 rims, built them up a decade ago, and they still run true, and I like to pump up my tires to 90psi, slightly higher on the rear, because I can!
Why even have high rated tires if you can only pump them up safely on a hookless about 40psi?
Hello? Come in control, anyone there?
Over 300k miles in my legs and I'm happy we have hookless wheels and disc brakes
As a professional bike mechanic, i look at hookless rims and never would ride it....
If you put your stats into axs sram tyre pressure calculator you will see on that rim 'Warning - Suggested tire pressure exceeds rim pressure rating. Please select a large tire size'. You were inflated to the maximum pressure the pressure above which the tyre manufacturer has found the tyre blows of the rim. If you had 28mm versions of the same tyre it would still have been at the 73 psi max but would likely have been fine because is a higher volume tyre. People think the maximum tyre pressure is a target to aim at, it is not the optimum tyre pressure. I would inflate using psi not bar and a 28mm tyre on a 21mm rim bed would be a much better match and could be run at optimum pressures below the 73psi hookless limit.
Nonsense, I'm afraid, tyre states 5 bar max, wheel 6 bar max, and tyre is approved for that wheel.
25 mil tire is too small based on the new ETRTO standards. For your rim with it should be 28mm
What a nightmare. Thank you for exposing this. There are lawsuits on the horizon.
The only thing that makes me doubt is that in the page says “hookless custom” honestly i dont know if is something different that extralite implement or what
Thanks for sharing, I’m an early adopter consumer, I like trying new tech and went with tubeless on my road bike since the GP 5000 TL where lunched, but this is scary, I would never go hookless after watching this.
Hookless is fine if you use a compatible tire. The GP5000 is specifically NOT hookless compatible
@@mrvwbug4423 GP5000 STR (the tyre shown in this video) is very much hookless compatible, brain harder.
Not saying I would go hookless with the TL tire, I’m not that dumb. But I would’nt go hookless with any “hookless compatible” road tire after watching this.
This happened to me as well. Zipp 353 nsw with the same tire. We were parked at a restaurant, and it blew off the rim just sitting there.
Tubeless is okay. But hookless + tubeless a recipe for disaster!
What difference makes a tube in that scenario? This is all about hookless.
25 mm and hookless yeah bro , sure great idea.... Common sense people common sense
That’s nuts I was wondering about the safety so much hype I think it’s just cheaper for the manufacturers to make the rims
Crazy how it's cheaper to make, but more expensive to buy
hookless rims is the biggest boolshit the industry has ever produced
Lesson learned kids, don't jump on Marketing PR hype for "new" stuff. You will be the beta tester for it..
think he bought them more for the lightest rim bla bla than hookless tough ...
@@moserroman2083 it's silly to even poke a hook less rim with a stick, there is zero industry using them. Unfortunately cycling has washed off engineering departments with little control on their quality/safety of their proposals. Hence bad designs plague the market now,as everyone tries to be innovative to the expense of the user. I am not surprised that cycling is losing margin over the pie of sports that people do. Unsafe, and super expensive.
It's all about marketing and adding another thing to sell. The next innovation will be tireless wheels?
GP5000 25mm is listed as not compatible in zipp's hookless compatibility chart. Properly with good reason 😊
Good find. Where is compatibility chart? Thank you
The old TL is, the TR is not. So the TR should work fine.
I have been riding zipp 303s with conti gp 5000 tr at 4 and 4,2 bar without issues, slightly lower initial pressure in warm conditions to accommodate expansion of air.
Lots of people ride hookless with no issues, but there are many examples of problems. Clearly you are well informed and being careful, but what happens when you sell your bike to a newbie?
oh my its so scary.
Curious if the rear tire was as easy to mount as the front? Seems you make a point saying how easy it was to mount the front tire, and my experience with hookless has been that's they're a bear to get on. I can generally mount tires with just my thumbs on hooked rime, my hookless rims have snapped multiple blue plastic Park tire wrenches and I typically need to use the big heavy Pedro's lever.
Yes, the rear was fairly easy too. If you need to use big metal levers on delicate carbon rims (in order to mount hookless tyres) then I would say that is another safety hazard and not at all user friendly.
Wrong tyre to the wrong rim...
yup
Glad it didn't happen out on the road. I have never bought into this expensive garbage and never will.
Please do a follow up. And include the important question, was the tire unusually easy to mount? I installed GP5000TRs on my Bontrager aluminum rims, and that combination was the hardest to mount of any tire I’ve ever experienced. Removing them was also crazy hard.
I will be following up on whatever conclusions can be drawn. The tyres were not 'east' to mount, but not especially hard either. Adding rim tape to the rear hasn't changed anything significantly.
💯HOOKLESS is JUST NOT SAFE! PERIOD. 💯
Thank you so much for sharing this! Thank you! I'm so sorry this happened to you, but you're extremely fortunate to experience it off of the bike. Like you said - if that happened on a descent the consequence would be dire.
I've been really concerned about hookless wheels for a long time. That being said, the pair of Hunt wheels I've been considering for my Ostro VAM are hookless, but I just can't shake the idea that not having hooks seems dangerous.
It's just not worth the risk, IMO, however small it might be.
There area couple of versions off this tyre some for hookless/straightwall rims and some for hooked rims. See this note from Continental's web page on the 5000 sTr . So for hookless rims you need ones marked as XX-TSS not XX-C. This labelling is confusing and I think they should have completely different labelling like"Hookless Only"
Compatibility and safety information for tubeless ready tires (XX-C = crochet-type rims [hooked]; XX-TSS = tubeless straight-side rims [hookless]):
Too complicated for the average user, and introduces an unnecessary safety risk.
i hope this video gets viral..
HOLY SHIIIIT, Thank fuck you weren't out on the road, that could have put you in SERIOUS danger.
That's a MAJOR safety issue.
Indeed.
Thanks for the demonstration. Will stick to clincher, even if I ever go disk! Love that campy set in the background, 2 way fit, no spoke holes, hidden nipples, very nice...
Tubeless and hookless are fine, provided you're running the correct setup. GP5000s are NOT hookless compatible and Conti flat out says not to use them on hookless rims. Tubeless still has advantages over clincher in terms of not immediately going flat from a small puncture and less rolling resistance and smoother ride quality.
@@mrvwbug4423 GP5000 STR are hookless compatible, numbnuts.
@@mrvwbug4423 while I appriciate the sentiment, and do not disagree, the argument is moot if the use of 5000s tr on a hooked "clincher" type rim in a tubeless config is considered. This was the intended insinuation on the "stick to clincher" comment that I made, with reference to the rim type rather than a tube/tyre combo. I love tubeless, just not on hookless and I think the video stresses that the "correct setup" was being used, but that blow off can still occur. The real question is if hookless is as safe as hooked for road use? Just because it is cheaper to manufacture doesnt mean hookless/nonclinching rims are good thing for the consumer as I feel safety trumps reduced cost.
Holy Shit! I run hooked rims on road and hookless rims on gravel. But on gravel I'm running at 2bar pressure.
scary to see this but i have a zipp 404 firecrest and my pressure is 65 psi in front and 70(5 bar) at the back. been using it for a year already and this has never happened to me. my tires are pirelli pzero tlr sl 28c.
There is always risk. But the hooked design has no similar risk.
I have zipp 303 firecrest and my pressure is 65 psi too based on the sram tire pressure calculator. I have been riding this setting for a year and no issues.
properly WTF...especially when you know in your gut...this will not happen with a hooked rim. High pressure, low volume, no hook...totally unacceptable combination I don't care what the for-profit wheel company says.
Yep!
WTF indeed! I'm all about new technology but I HATE hookless rims! I have heard so many horror stories but you're the first I've seen able to replicate this on camera! Even more scary that this happens at 5 bar which is not that much pressure... I regularly ride near 6 bar!
Dude’s using narrow tyres on hookless. So silly.
Is that disc brake rub I am hearing while fiddling with the valve?
Yeah, disc brakes eh?! The rear is a bit tight.
Its ultimately just unnecessary. I wont be buying any.
First off why 25mm, not 28mm? Second 73psi or 5bar is not the "recommended" running pressure, it is the absolute max that you should consider using. I have never run any tyre/wheel combo at the absolute max...what would be the point?
The point is you hit a pothole, and you get a blowout. With hook rims, that chance is 0. So why the heck should consumers take this risk for no reason?
this one did age well - I am using hookless/tubeless on gravel and MTB, but will keep my DTSwiss carbon rims with hooks for racing....
Hookless on race bikes could work if the tolerances of the tyres (and rims!) would be better controlled, but even in a "classic" setup, I often have issues with one tyre to get it on the rim, and formally same tyre slips on easy... tyre producers need to fix this prior to continuing the journey into hookless!
Yes, some tyre makers are better than others....
Very useful video; thanks for posting. You seem to have concluded that the issue is with the tire rather than the hookless wheel, which is entirely possible; I have purchased GP 5000s that were defective (one I bought in 2020 was bit "lumpy" in my case; annoying but not unsafe). However, I abandoned tubeless tires in general a while ago, and I will never use hookless rims on a bicycle. Hookless rims obviously work well with cars, with pressures around 30 psi (2 bar) and massive wheels and very thick, steel-reinforced tires, but I personally like to ride road bikes on 28-32 mm tires at higher pressures, 80-90 psi (5-6 bar), and, as you've dramatically demonstrated, thinner, less substantial hookless wheels and tires, at much higher pressures, are not a very good idea. I'll stick with clinchers for now, thanks.
Good idea!
Hookless works on MTBs too ( 1,5 - 2,0 bar , 30mm inner width for 60+mm tires)
Glad I never bothered and stuck with hooks 🤦♂️🤦♂️
you were so polite talking about the danger. I was already screaming my lungs. wow that was violent. I like speed and fast conering. Thanks for letting us know this very very dangerous idea of hookless rims. I will never buy one. My goodness. At any speed, that will certainly be extremely dangerous.
1) 25c is not good idea on tubeless, You not use any benefits
2) GP 5000 S TR 25c max inner is 21c, what if inner is 21,00001 mm on Your wheel
3) it shouldnt happen anyway
4) try 22,4mm inner wheel with 28c Tire - Areo and comfort gamechanger
Agree mine 2 set hookless ws int23 ext30 using str and pro1 no issue😊
Amazed you bought hookless given your engineering background (I think?). Glad you're ok though. Extralite are an odd company ... they're a stickler for all sorts of things - including centerlock - but seem to have fully embraced hookless. Presumably on cost and weight grounds ... certainly not rider safety. They don't even offer a hooked alternative on newer wheels. As such I won't touch them. Also, whatever tire or wheel companies say, never run over 65psi on hookless road; you're playing with fire, and NEVER ever use them without foam inserts - without them, a blowout is much more likely to result in the tire completely blowing off the rim.
All good tips. Indeed I am an engineer, and I was wary of trying hookless, but I trusted the engineering of both Conti and Extralite (as Extralite states approval for this tyre), and thought, 'well, they wouldn't sell these if they were dangerous would they?!' Probably 65psi would have been OK. But to blowout at 73 is just too close for comfort.
@@CyclespeedToursNo, since it blew right away at 5 bar with no load on them, especially no sideways load, I wouldn’t trust them at 4 bar.
You're either forgetting or unaware of the fact that early hooked clinchers were terrible. They would often have a terrible hop in them because the bead was way too big and the hook would only hold part of the bead without an extra layer of thick cotton rim tape. This eventually largely only became an issue with mid- range and cheap tires MANY decades later. But right before tubeless took off, we'd still occasionally have issues with high end tires that were a bit to small and tires would have a hop because the bead stayed in the channel for a few inches of the circumference. Hookless is remarkable for how new it is for road tires. It won't be long before all mid range and high end tires are hookless compatible
@@veganpotterthevegan what does that have to do with this? That’s like a modern car being unsafe and the manufacturer saying will look how bad cars were in the 50s. Who cares? There’s no excuse for taking a big step backwards in safety, nor in products failing despite being used within the manufacturers stated safe range. Are you shill?
17k views, nice. Was the front tire damaged when you installed it maybe? Mount a new tire and give us an update.
No, it went on relatively easily. (1 plastic lever)
The same thing happened with my continental tubeless ready tires with my enve 4.5 AR wheel set. Twice. Once while walking my bike out of the garage for its inaugural tubeless ride and another time when I was 1 house from my home. I immediately went back to inner tubes. The bike shop hadn’t experienced this before and was quite puzzled.
They would say that though
You need continental GP5000 S TR for enve 4.5AR , the reguler TR is not compatible
@@minkmoink those are the ones I’m having issues with
@@travissherer7351 Hi travis, I'm using Conti GP5000STR 28mm on enve 4.5AR with no issue (tubeless)
Unfortunately my favorite wheel company, ENVE, has now converted their line up to hookless. I'm not sold on that. Something just doesn't sit right with me about hookless. No thanks.
I really don't understand why American companies would go down this road, knowing just how bad the litigation could be as and when a tyre blows off.
A nice experiment to try on these would be to mount them with a latex or TPU tube and inflate to 120 psi and leave them for a few days to see if they will jump off the rim. If it does, suspect that the tire or rim is not properly sized.
I'm sorry, I don't follow your argument. The pressure forces within the tire stay the same whether it's via a bladder or not.
Jeez, i just checked out your video .I traded my Campagnolo bora 45wto for tubular version. I was regretting the trade because the cost in material acetone and glue .after seeing your video i rather deal with pain ass maintenance and be safe decending downhill .than take the chance of serious accident all because marketing. Sorry that happened to you.
I still have tubular Bora Ultras - great wheels.