When I was about 10-years-old and interested in the Civil War, my paternal grandmother, who grew up in Alabama's Appalachian foothills/mountains, told me, "Jon, you're descended from all THREE sides of the Civil War." Her challenge was for me to dig for the truth and not to accept the Lost Cause lies so prevalent in my childhood. Yes, my Alabama Unionist roots have three relatives, my paternal side, in the 1st Alabama (US) Cavalry, one buried in Murfreesboro's and one in Nashville's National Cemetery. On the other TWO sides, two paternal ancestors were reluctantly conscripted into the Confederate cavalry: one, being only 16 in early 1865, served as a scout shadowing Wilson's Raid (his scouting did little to help the Confederate cause at that point), while the other deserted by surrendering to Union forces TWICE (the second time as a parole violation) and finished the war in the Federal penitentiary in Louisville, KY. The Confederate scout ancestor did not surrender with his Confederate unit - he simply went home when he heard that Lee had surrendered.
Great story. My Great great grandfather wrote an autobiography in 1923 at the age of 87. He titled it "The Story of My Life," but it focused mostly on his experiences as a member of the First Alabama Cavalry, U.S. So our family knew the story of that unit, and of Marion County, Alabama in the secession story. I'm glad to see it becoming known. When I tell Alabamans my ancestor's story, they seldom believe me.
My great great great grandfather fought in 1st Tennessee & Alabama Independent Vidette Cavalry. His name was Hiram Davidson. I never knew people in my family fought for the North. That was a revelation! I just found out a few days ago about him. He was on my grandmother’s side.
I discovered doing genealogy that my Alabama forebears joined an Illinois regiment against the CSA. I was quite surprised to discover this. They all survived the war and returned to Alabama after the war.
Many southerners, particularly from the mountain country, didn't think very much of being drafted into the Confederate Army to fight for slavery. It was not at all uncommon for them to desert, go North to a Union state and then enlist in the Union Army. Unlike the Confederate Army which legally conscripted everyone, including those that initially volunteered, almost no one was conscripted into the Union Army. There were anti war riots in NYC when the army tried to draft New Yorkers, but the state eventually paid the money to get those men drafted out of the service. Some speculate that nearly half of Sherman's army on the March to the Sea consisted of Southerners like your ancestor. There were approximately 200,000 men who served in both armies in that manner. Note that Lee's Army of Virginia never numbered more than 100,000 men. There was somewhat of a political disaster after the war when men who had first served in the Confederate Army before enlisting in the Union Army were denied pensions.
A few questions (1) If the Confederate states couldn't secede from the USA, why could West Virginia secede from Virginia? (2) Was West Virginia the only southern area that sought separate statehood within the Union? (3) Do the 100,000 Southerners in the US Army include West Virginians? Learning this makes it even more remarkable that the Confederacy held out for as long as it did.
I can answer your first question. The Constitution provides for the formation of new states, either from territories or by dividing an existing state. To do this requires approval by Congress. And that's what West Virginia did; just before the war started, they applied for separate statehood, and it was eventually granted by Congress. Secession on the other hand, is not allowed in the Constitution. It is the same as rebellion or insurrection. Some argue that secession is an implied right under the Tenth Amendment, but that would have to be ruled on by the Supreme Court. And the Confederates didn't bother with asking their permission. Hope this helps.
My 3rd great grandpa SGT Wiley Jones served with the 12th Tennessee cavalry union volunteers. He was from Dekalb Alabama. He actually fought against my 3rd great grandpa SGT R J Southerland. He's also from Dekalb Alabama. He served with the 48th Alabama infantry as a scout. Their great grandskids are my great grandpa and grandma. I bet holidays were fun.
True enough that their were Union sympathizers throughout the Confederacy, many of whom took up arms against the Confederate government. It's equally true that many people from states that remained in the Union, for various reasons, took up arms against the Federal government. It went both ways.
Let me add a perspective. In addition to the approximately 100,000 white Southerners who fought for the Union, 200,000 BLACK southerners, mostly escaped from slavery and born on this soil just like any white southerner, fought for the Union. They fought for REAL freedom for their families and their people. They fought for the TRUE realization of the promise of America. They fought for REAL American values...not the mealy-mouthed "state's rights" and "our way of life" rationalizations that are STILL trotted out today by the defenders of the slavers and their rebellion. I was raised in the South. That is no reason for me - or anyone else - to focus on the four years of the slavers' failed rebellion as our "heritage," especially when we have so much shared NATIONAL heritage to be proud of - not the least being that we ENDED the sin of slavery.
My grandparents were from Winston County Alabama and my great great uncle fought for the Union. I’ve shared this with some folks and been called a liar. But my ancestors were pro union and anti slave Republicans from Nauvoo Alabama and Lynn Alabama. I live in Decatur Alabama and one of our mayors Christopher Sheets helped create the free state of Winston
I live in jacksonville al I'm from cullman, my 4th Great Grandfather Matthew Harbison, and 3 of his brothers, also up my maternal side William Swan also joined the 1st my Harbison side joined in 1863 and died right before Atlanta from my research I think he go shot on Kennesaw mountain and died of disease/ infection like 2 weeks later
The mason dixon is nothing more than a political boundary. Most cultural sociologists like Zelinsky and Glassie among others almost always included the lower portions of Indiana Ohio n Illinois as part of the “upland south” region. Therefore the number of southern unionists is likely WAY higher than u might think. 100,000 white southerners plus 200,000 black southerners from confederacy alone plus thousands of southerners from Kentucky, Missouri, West Virginia, and Maryland; not to mention parts of Indiana , Ohio, and Illinois. The lost cause propaganda is the reason u see confederate flags all across “the south” including the “Yankee areas”
I'm from Cullman, Alabama, part of Winston County during the Civil War. All but one of my ancestors fought for the Union. My grandmother wrote that one of them was with Sherman's march across Georgia. The one ancestor who was a Confederate was drafted at age 14. He survived the war by firing his rifle into the air one time, then ducking for cover. His mates must have taken pity on him else they'd have shot him. I've biked across most of Georgia, South Carolina, Mississippi, Tennessee, and of course, Alabama. Cullman county now has more confederate battle flags on porches and trucks than anywhere else I've seen. Lost Cause propaganda has worked it's spell on my people.
Born and raised a South Carolinian, I have ancestors that served with the Confederate army. Another of my ancestors was marched into a field and shot for being a unionist. That's civil war for you. Civil war is war at its worst.
I found a little information, that South Alabama at the South East corner at the Florida border had prounionist guerilla group. Here this part of Alabama had lower % slave populated counties too as Covington 12.7% slaves, Coffee 14.7% slaves, Dale 14.8% slaves. Ozark region in Arkansas had many prounionista with low % slave population.
I am very interested in the prounionism in the South during the Civil War. The North Georgia had also prounism in the montanouse region, but it was less than in North Alabama so the North Georgian prounists got many capital punishment and murders. The North Alabama people could protect themselves better. North Georgian could go to join the USA Army in East Tennessee after Burnside liberated East Tennessee only.
If you look st the densed unionist populated areas the positive correlation between the low % slave population and the prounionism is very strong. Jones county is the lowest % slave population in Mississippi and this county was prounionst. The exceptions are very few, for example New Bern region in North Carolina, where many white prounionist soldiers joined the USA Army or Middle Kentucky had some higher % slave populated counties with prounionists (Here Henry Clay effect worked). From the about 12 000 deserters in North Carolina about 3000 not only deserted but joined to the USA Army.
Probably because the North had a larger population. What was the percentage of southerner fighting in the Union Army than Northerners fighting the Confederate Army.
@@mattbillings3224 The unionist Border states gave a lot of white soldiers (Missouri 40 000, Kentucky 35 000, Maryland and Delaware 5000) to the Confederacy. Kansas gave about 500 white soldiers to the Confederacy. A little proconfederate movement was in South California and Arizona. Together only about 80 000 white soldiers from the end of 1861 USA territories and states. The Confederacy gave about 100 000 white unionist soldiers in the USA and unknown sailors to the USA Navy. The South gave the US 20,000 more white soldiers and sailors than the North gave the South.
When I was about 10-years-old and interested in the Civil War, my paternal grandmother, who grew up in Alabama's Appalachian foothills/mountains, told me, "Jon, you're descended from all THREE sides of the Civil War." Her challenge was for me to dig for the truth and not to accept the Lost Cause lies so prevalent in my childhood. Yes, my Alabama Unionist roots have three relatives, my paternal side, in the 1st Alabama (US) Cavalry, one buried in Murfreesboro's and one in Nashville's National Cemetery. On the other TWO sides, two paternal ancestors were reluctantly conscripted into the Confederate cavalry: one, being only 16 in early 1865, served as a scout shadowing Wilson's Raid (his scouting did little to help the Confederate cause at that point), while the other deserted by surrendering to Union forces TWICE (the second time as a parole violation) and finished the war in the Federal penitentiary in Louisville, KY. The Confederate scout ancestor did not surrender with his Confederate unit - he simply went home when he heard that Lee had surrendered.
Great story. My Great great grandfather wrote an autobiography in 1923 at the age of 87. He titled it "The Story of My Life," but it focused mostly on his experiences as a member of the First Alabama Cavalry, U.S. So our family knew the story of that unit, and of Marion County, Alabama in the secession story. I'm glad to see it becoming known. When I tell Alabamans my ancestor's story, they seldom believe me.
My great great great grandfather fought in 1st Tennessee & Alabama Independent Vidette Cavalry. His name was Hiram Davidson. I never knew people in my family fought for the North. That was a revelation! I just found out a few days ago about him. He was on my grandmother’s side.
I discovered doing genealogy that my Alabama forebears joined an Illinois regiment against the CSA. I was quite surprised to discover this. They all survived the war and returned to Alabama after the war.
Many southerners, particularly from the mountain country, didn't think very much of being drafted into the Confederate Army to fight for slavery. It was not at all uncommon for them to desert, go North to a Union state and then enlist in the Union Army. Unlike the Confederate Army which legally conscripted everyone, including those that initially volunteered, almost no one was conscripted into the Union Army. There were anti war riots in NYC when the army tried to draft New Yorkers, but the state eventually paid the money to get those men drafted out of the service. Some speculate that nearly half of Sherman's army on the March to the Sea consisted of Southerners like your ancestor. There were approximately 200,000 men who served in both armies in that manner. Note that Lee's Army of Virginia never numbered more than 100,000 men.
There was somewhat of a political disaster after the war when men who had first served in the Confederate Army before enlisting in the Union Army were denied pensions.
A few questions
(1) If the Confederate states couldn't secede from the USA, why could West Virginia secede from Virginia?
(2) Was West Virginia the only southern area that sought separate statehood within the Union?
(3) Do the 100,000 Southerners in the US Army include West Virginians?
Learning this makes it even more remarkable that the Confederacy held out for as long as it did.
I can answer your first question. The Constitution provides for the formation of new states, either from territories or by dividing an existing state. To do this requires approval by Congress. And that's what West Virginia did; just before the war started, they applied for separate statehood, and it was eventually granted by Congress.
Secession on the other hand, is not allowed in the Constitution. It is the same as rebellion or insurrection. Some argue that secession is an implied right under the Tenth Amendment, but that would have to be ruled on by the Supreme Court. And the Confederates didn't bother with asking their permission. Hope this helps.
My 3rd great grandpa SGT Wiley Jones served with the 12th Tennessee cavalry union volunteers. He was from Dekalb Alabama. He actually fought against my 3rd great grandpa SGT R J Southerland. He's also from Dekalb Alabama. He served with the 48th Alabama infantry as a scout. Their great grandskids are my great grandpa and grandma. I bet holidays were fun.
So glad to know this history" union forever"
My husbands 3rd great grandfather, Jefferson Milner was half Cherokee and has a muster roll from this unit. How wonderful.
True enough that their were Union sympathizers throughout the Confederacy, many of whom took up arms against the Confederate government. It's equally true that many people from states that remained in the Union, for various reasons, took up arms against the Federal government. It went both ways.
Thanks for a fascinating examination of this "lost" history. Great presentation. Cheers from Aotearoa New Zealand!
Let me add a perspective. In addition to the approximately 100,000 white Southerners who fought for the Union, 200,000 BLACK southerners, mostly escaped from slavery and born on this soil just like any white southerner, fought for the Union. They fought for REAL freedom for their families and their people. They fought for the TRUE realization of the promise of America. They fought for REAL American values...not the mealy-mouthed "state's rights" and "our way of life" rationalizations that are STILL trotted out today by the defenders of the slavers and their rebellion.
I was raised in the South. That is no reason for me - or anyone else - to focus on the four years of the slavers' failed rebellion as our "heritage," especially when we have so much shared NATIONAL heritage to be proud of - not the least being that we ENDED the sin of slavery.
My grandparents were from Winston County Alabama and my great great uncle fought for the Union. I’ve shared this with some folks and been called a liar. But my ancestors were pro union and anti slave Republicans from Nauvoo Alabama and Lynn Alabama. I live in Decatur Alabama and one of our mayors Christopher Sheets helped create the free state of Winston
I live in jacksonville al I'm from cullman, my 4th Great Grandfather Matthew Harbison, and 3 of his brothers, also up my maternal side William Swan also joined the 1st my Harbison side joined in 1863 and died right before Atlanta from my research I think he go shot on Kennesaw mountain and died of disease/ infection like 2 weeks later
Thank you.
The mason dixon is nothing more than a political boundary. Most cultural sociologists like Zelinsky and Glassie among others almost always included the lower portions of Indiana Ohio n Illinois as part of the “upland south” region. Therefore the number of southern unionists is likely WAY higher than u might think. 100,000 white southerners plus 200,000 black southerners from confederacy alone plus thousands of southerners from Kentucky, Missouri, West Virginia, and Maryland; not to mention parts of Indiana , Ohio, and Illinois. The lost cause propaganda is the reason u see confederate flags all across “the south” including the “Yankee areas”
I'm from Cullman, Alabama, part of Winston County during the Civil War. All but one of my ancestors fought for the Union. My grandmother wrote that one of them was with Sherman's march across Georgia. The one ancestor who was a Confederate was drafted at age 14. He survived the war by firing his rifle into the air one time, then ducking for cover. His mates must have taken pity on him else they'd have shot him.
I've biked across most of Georgia, South Carolina, Mississippi, Tennessee, and of course, Alabama. Cullman county now has more confederate battle flags on porches and trucks than anywhere else I've seen. Lost Cause propaganda has worked it's spell on my people.
"There are more men capable of service in the South than there are in the Armies." - Howell Cobb, 1863
Born and raised a South Carolinian, I have ancestors that served with the Confederate army. Another of my ancestors was marched into a field and shot for being a unionist. That's civil war for you. Civil war is war at its worst.
I found a little information, that South Alabama at the South East corner at the Florida border had prounionist guerilla group. Here this part of Alabama had lower % slave populated counties too as Covington 12.7% slaves, Coffee 14.7% slaves, Dale 14.8% slaves. Ozark region in Arkansas had many prounionista with low % slave population.
I am very interested in the prounionism in the South during the Civil War. The North Georgia had also prounism in the montanouse region, but it was less than in North Alabama so the North Georgian prounists got many capital punishment and murders. The North Alabama people could protect themselves better. North Georgian could go to join the USA Army in East Tennessee after Burnside liberated East Tennessee only.
If you look st the densed unionist populated areas the positive correlation between the low % slave population and the prounionism is very strong. Jones county is the lowest % slave population in Mississippi and this county was prounionst. The exceptions are very few, for example New Bern region in North Carolina, where many white prounionist soldiers joined the USA Army or Middle Kentucky had some higher % slave populated counties with prounionists (Here Henry Clay effect worked).
From the about 12 000 deserters in North Carolina about 3000 not only deserted but joined to the USA Army.
12th Tennessee Cav..
Typo 13th
There was far more support in the North for the South than in the South for the North.
Probably because the North had a larger population. What was the percentage of southerner fighting in the Union Army than Northerners fighting the Confederate Army.
@@mattbillings3224 The unionist Border states gave a lot of white soldiers (Missouri 40 000, Kentucky 35 000, Maryland and Delaware 5000) to the Confederacy. Kansas gave about 500 white soldiers to the Confederacy. A little proconfederate movement was in South California and Arizona. Together only about 80 000 white soldiers from the end of 1861 USA territories and states. The Confederacy gave about 100 000 white unionist soldiers in the USA and unknown sailors to the USA Navy.
The South gave the US 20,000 more white soldiers and sailors than the North gave the South.