479 HP! Vortec Heads w/ Roller Cam VS Flat Tappet (Dingle Ball 2.0 Dyno Results)
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Can we make more power with less compression, less duration and less head flow? This Vortec headed 355, I call the Dingle Ball 2.0 is put to the test on the dyno to show we can make some great power with a roller cam VS Flat tappet.
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Dingle Ball 1.0
• 480+Hp from a Budget 3...
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I think you should definitely use the 2.0 heads and cam on a 383. But also use an Edlebrock rpm air gap thats port matched and the ports cleaned up with that same spacer. You'll gain SOO much more low speed torque and with the porting and spacer you wont lose very much top end at all compared to how much youll gain down low. Also I would raise the compression back up to 10.5:1 and run 93 octane for all of us that do have 93 at the pump. I believe youll see 500hp or close to it peak but lower rpm gain will be impressive. I woukd really like to see this combo man
479 HP from a cast iron head 355 very impressive and if you dont want to chance a flat tappet cam just get a roller block 1987 and up
Dude that is impressive. Very good build combo you put together. Would definitely LOVE to see a 383 version of this.
Would love to see 2.0 tested with a dual plane just for the heck of it.
I wanted to but was abit crunched for time that day as we were testing two engines. It made more torque than expected with the single plane
My wish also
I was thinking the same thing. An rpm airgap should be able to support that rpm range.
@@thabiznizz absolutely
Love to see this as well. I think the single plane would extend the rpm power range over the Air Gap but, who knows, it might not!
Thank you for making videos on these vortec heads. A lot of of us are tired of LS videos. Let’s add 100 shot of nitrous on a video👍
Dude I love the “hot for teacher idle” reference! When the 1984 album came out when I was 13 the first time I heard that song I thought it sounded just like a large camshaft idling.
cant wait for the 383 build
I'm so ready to see your Vortec head 400 build 😁
Nice job, fun little motors, you can run the tar out of them on the weekend and still drive them to work Monday morning.
Hell yeah!
Great content can’t wait for the 383 Vortech version I have a 88 S-10 I would love to build and put it in there I know it would be awesome Keep up the good work.
Nice job pat !!!! That engine would be fun in a square nose S-10
350 making almost 500hp is a nice engine, I'm building an engine similar to 2.0
That LT4 hot cam is the shizzel in that build!! Like usual- ALL your info and wealth of knowledge you humbly pass on to us learning guys (even old guys like me that still want to learn more!) and go above and beyond for OUR BENEFIT!!!
PAT, YOU ARE THE GOAT!!!!
(Side note! Got my super secret squirrel locks today, and they work perfect!! You need to make up a “kit” for all of us having issues, and make all our lives easier- because you know your stuff brother!!! THANK YOU!!!
I’m not going to say a word until YOU DO, about this!!! Crazy awesome!!! Thanks again brother!!!)
I'm glad it worked out! Pretty slick, right?
@@cuttersperformanceNO DOUBT!!! GENIUS!!
You have proven again that you can run a noticeably smaller roller cam and make similar power to a larger cam. The Vortec heads always amaze me in that they a lot of times make more power than a better flowing head. That’s one nice thing about small 170cc runners flowing 230 ish com.
Dang brother, that thing is a beast! Let's see if we can get 500 hp out of a 350 (or 355) with vortec heads.
11-1 is limit on 91 for me.I barely get away with running 18-40 on timing.40 is pushing it with ping.
I've done it too, but you're right . It can be tricky on tuning, especially with heavier vehicles
I would love to see a 383 version of this motor with the re-worked cheap aluminum heads from DNA or whatever.
Killer combination is an understatement! What an awesome comparison! I still find it difficult to dig that deep into my pockets to buy a roller cam, but there's no doubt they're good.
I'm traditionally a Big Block Mopar/Big Block Chevy guy, but.. I've recently stepped into a jet Boat project that's gonna be powered by a 6.0 LS. Totally different animal, but wow.. the parts availability and ease of making good power with the LS platform is hard to deny. High performance roller cam and lifter kits from Summit for less than $450 !! And the heads flow amazingly well in stock form. Power with an LS is like shooting fish in a barrel... pretty cool in my opinion. 🍻
@@Torquemonster440 What does anything you wrote have to do with what I wrote?
@@Carl_Jr should have clarified better, LS Roller cams and lifters are cheap in comparison to retrofitting an old school V8.
@@Torquemonster440 True to a point. A stock SBC roller block isn't too bad. A good cam and lifters are about $500. Still huge compared to $250 for flat tappet, though.
Also, if someone were to reuse the factory roller lifters, a Summit Pro series cam is about $250 for just a roller cam. But again, for my application I don't think it would be worth the money to do the swap.
Did you use the thick old style 5/64 thick piston rings? I would love to see a test between them and a 1/16 or 1.5mm set and also a 1mm set. The only tests I’ve found haven’t included the 5/64 rings. The OEM’s went to 1/16 or 1.5mm in the’80s and now a lot of engines use 1mm-1.2mm sets. I would imagine the difference between the thinnest and the thickest rings would be 10 HP I would imagine.
A 235/241 hyd roller cam will act like a 247/253@.050” hyd flat tappet cam.
Don’t remember what the dingle ball 1.0 had for flat tappet hyd cam specs.
Yes similar, the dingleball 1.0 was 242/248
11:1 is just fine. You can control the dcr with the cam. Look up "The 350 Chevy should have built" and read the whole article.
Very impressive!
good running little motor. definitely looks like it wants more head though
A 383 version with aluminum heads and the same cam is in the works. Should be an interesting comparison
2.0 is more what I would run.
I prefer the 1.0 engine because of the affordable flat tappet. However PROPER break in is a must...and take EVERY precaution to ease the spring pressure during breakin
Going with a roller is only about $500 more if you use a '87 or later OEM roller block. It's the best $500 you can spend.
Awesome---Thanks ---This is prefect for my 355 --do you have the complete cam specs?
Ive got a vortec 880 cast, how much power will a balanced stock rotating assembly take?
Have the rods resized with ARP bolts, and it can live into the 500s no problem
@@cuttersperformance will do thanks for that
As a Chevy fan I have myself 355 cid high performance aluminum heads that is flowing 200+ CFM HERE’s the thing the heads you are running make power but the cast iron heads are known to cracks very bad a good set of afr heads will blow your mind. My eng is 10.5-1 compression works fine on pump gas.
I'm running a 357 small block flat top pistons , stock vortec heads with springs . Cam is Howard's flat tappet 450/450 lift. 235/239 a 50. 106 lsa. 750 dp around what power range should I be?
🤔 dual plain
Electric water pump maybe?; 850 - 900 carb. long tube's dunno just using my imagination. Dual quad? Everyone does the 350 / stroker to the point i dont really want to build one. You should do a 305 the engine nobody wants but surprisingly the combos and stroker option is quite unique. 400 crank on .040 or .060 bored 305 or 327 crank with dome piston and rod combo with 350 vortec heads 🤔 interesting. The ls killer!
I was really glad to see 1.0 with 11:1 compression. Limited mindset people have been making that false claim for decades, and everyone else just keeps believing it. Maybe 3.0 can push it even higher. Then run it on 87 just to prove a point.
I’m guessing that hp carry at the top on the “1.0” engine is the longer exhaust duration. The fatter torque curve on the”2.0” is probably the bigger lift and more area under the curve of the roller vs flat tappet cams. I like the 108° LSA, I don’t remember if the flat tappet cam was the same, but that could fatten up the mid-range too. For myself, with intake closing in the mid 40s (at 0.050”), I would take the 11:1 build. All together very nice work! Thanks!
Both cams on a 108 LSA
Amigos.go for 383 sb big hyd roller and ported 186 heads
Was wondering where you are located ? I'm looking for a nice street 350 for my 01 S10. Didn't know if you was interested in building it. Thank you for your time.
hydraulic roller cams are garbage,, unless you pay $750 for professional quality lifters there a a time bomb with chinese lifters.
there is nothing wrong with hyd flat tappet cams or flat tappet solids. 11.0:1 compression should not be a problem with premium pump petrol.
What intake gaskets did you use with the vortec heads and rpm airgap? Also, can I use stock rockers on a 487/501 lift cam? I already have the beehive setup. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Build a 383 808 block afr enforcer gm hot cam 525 lift 10.5 . For what it cost to buy vortec head then a trip to the machine shop you can buy enforcer heads and enjoy a bump in compression. I like the 2.0 build keep um coming. Thanks
yeah the enforcers are hard to beat for the price and the only "overseas" heads i know of that use LSX 8mm valves
👍🏽😎 The HYDRAULIC FLAT TAPPET STILL ROCKS!! NO FEAR ..LOVE EM. GREAT POST.🔥🔥🔥🏁🏁🏁💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽🤛🏾😎Hot for teacher 1.0😂😂😂
Awesome video , very informative and very well presented. Nice work my guy !! 🍻
Thanks brotha!
I have a question I have a 92 350 638 block factory roller cam I need rings some say they should be metric I'm not sure let me know thanks love your channel
yes only flat tappets chance to reach power is much more duration at 0.50 and lift maybe 1.8 rockers since its a Chevy and those aluminum hi flow heads.
Great job and great information. Thank you for sharing
I'm building the same engine. Zz4 with 906 head's but I'm going with a 280 roller cam. It's going in a 1992 Z71 short bed regular cab
So in my future is a pickup truck with a 350. It doesn't need to burn rubber or be fast . What it must do is be able to pull a trailer run on 87 octane gas and live forever. If this is a video you have already done let me know if not any help or information you could pass on would be great.
Wow. Great build, great comparison and great breakdowns!
Oh, and great power! Thanks
Excellent build and info. Waiting on the 383 data.
I have a howards rattler cam (HR) im wanting to try in similar setup with aluminum heads. Curious how close to this 1 itll be
Do you sell vortex heads w port jobs done to them?
I do not offer ported heads
Ok thank for the information I maybe switching to vortex heads for more power.
You should consider selling ported heads Pat, even complete 383 Vortec crate engines. I bet that you would do a great deal of business.
Haw about 11-1 with a roller cam ?
A lot of people are afraid to put less timing on higher compression !!!
🤷♂️
You're better to run abit less compression and full timing, then more compression and pull timing
I run 12:1 in my ls on pump gas. I see no reason a sbc can't do that also. I mean wtf....chevy build sbc's with 11:1 from the factory.
You can, and I have done 11:1+ on SBCs but it's not quite as easy as LS platform. The LS heads are very efficient and require less ignition timing, and the cooling system of the LS allows better coolant flow through the heads to prevent hot spots and cooler chambers. Back when GM built the 11:1 SBC the gas was much better than today, the timing often times needs to be dialed back to run todays gas without ping
@@cuttersperformance yea the old sbc chamber might not be quite as good as a ls. But a vortec or lt1(90s) is probably close. I ran 10:1 on with a 406 and l98 heads back in the early 2000s. That was in a k5 with no issues. Not even a very large cam.....small really.
I think most the stuff that had pre ignition issues properly also had a dish piston and/or a large chamber which screwed up the quench causing issues.
Looking forward to the Dingleball Stroker!
My 383 project will have .525 lift with my 225/231-ish roller cam. AFR 195 Enforcer heads planned. Would you go with 1.6 rockers to bump up the lift a bit? I haven't ordered any top end stuff yet. Just building the rotating set.
I also have a 383 stroker with a roller cam and budget aluminum heads that's coming up
Sweet build man, enjoyed!
Pat, have you ever considered doing a vortec V-6 to see what numbers you could rock out of it ????
If I had a customer who wanted one, I would
@@cuttersperformanceI bet if you built one with major HP/TQ you could easily sell it... The shorter engine block would fit under the hood of a lot of smaller cars and trucks...
If you were going to build a mild turbo 350 like 500ish hp do you think the crank and rods in a 88 truck 350 (originally a TBI) 4 bolt roller short block hold up , this is just a cruiser hotrod street truck with normal occasional just havin fun use not for the strip. I know its not ideal but I'm thinking probably for a while.
You'd be supried how strong a stock crank and rods are. As long as everything is in good shape, keep it out of detonation, you'll be fine for 500 hp all day. Forged pistons are a good idea, but I've used Hypereutectic pistons at that power level with no issues
What is different about the 787 retainers that makes them have more retainer to valve seal clearance?
I would love to see you do a 305 with 305 vortec heads
Both awesome engines.
I have a 377 version I'm going to be putting together soon. 4" bore 3.75 eagle rotating assembly. With some after market vortec heads from jegs. The pistons do have a dish. I think 7cc. And are .020 in the hole. But with the 64cc chambers and a steel shim headgasket it should still have decent compression. Comp cams
08-409-8..... 258°/262°-.458/.458
I'm curious what the aluminum headed engine would make with the bigger camshaft & definitely curious to see a 383 build as well.
I'm doing a 383 version, budget aluminum heads and a large roller cam
Now, imagine this combo with just a little 100 shot of spray. You're knocking on the door of 600 hp!!!
Hell yeah!
Perfect timing I've got a 357 I'm working on have a couple of flat tappets but was thinking the same thing a hydraulic roller will give me more lift while keeping duration at a good streetable range, nice video.😎❤️🔥💯👍
Thanks man!
How about a 400 with vortex sae cam
Great job thanks for putting the time into this......Brett
Do we think the extra 70hp on the 2.0 vs the Aluminum Head is enough to overcome the weight difference?
Yes
11 to 1 compression is perfect for 91 octane
I need 3 of those
Thanks for testing, its refreshing seeing these good dyno results.
comparing some as cast aluminum heads to your ported vortec on these engines would be nice. buying vortec heads and having them ported and set up for these engines is more money than some of these aftermarket heads.
I doing a 383 with some budget Aluminum heads
LOL the hot for teacher idle
Great comparison! I know a 383 version is on deck but I'm curious about your version of a 406 like the "Impersonator II" engine build Motortrend did many years ago. 525 lb ft of torque with vortec heads, lower compression, and a .480 cam. 👍
I have a vortec headed 406 that's almost ready
@@cuttersperformance even better if you dabbled with 87 octane too. 😆 I know, that's a whole different build
Really enjoy the vortec videos, have you quantified what the 1.6” exh valves gain you over stock and would you mind sharing the 1.6” valve part number that you use please. Cheers.
Static compression ratio is IRRELEVANT to whether or not pump gas can be used. 14.0:1 can be ran on pump gas with the right camshaft.
You were already buying an aftermarket crankshaft, would it have been much more expensive to upgrade to a stroker crankshaft?
I got the brand new eagle crank for $50, and already had the pistons on the shelf
That explains it. Keep up the great work. Love the L31.
How much would it make with afr enforcer 195's ?
Probably similar
You think those turbo mufflers are hurting your Dyno numbers ? 🤔
Wasn't dynoed with the mufflers
Do an all-out dindleball 3.0 with a 388 and 13.5 cr with E-85 and you will be able to run an even more aggressive cam. Those of us in the Midwest can find E-85 everywhere.
Thats a stout unit
Thanks for another great dyno test, did you by chance test with and without the K&N stub stack? I have read of cars going slower in the 1/4 mile with one, but maybe it works great on the dyno?
They are both Great combos mate.
@ 3:50 what is the name of the black colored device on the top of the carby whilst the engine is running on the dyno?
Is it some sort of flow smoothing device for the carby?
Thanks 👍🇦🇺
K&N substack, it helps airflow into the carb
@@cuttersperformance thanks mate 👍🇦🇺
Springs?
Great build, I'm going to try the Vortec 4/7 swap in a 400. Think Vacuum be OK for brakes
Your vacuum. Should be fine but you might need to drill steam holes. Engine masters did a 4/7 swap comparison and the numbers didn't change much.
I doubt you'll have enough vaccum for power brakes with the Summit 1205 cam. It has 89 deg of overlap, you'll want something with less than 80 deg of overlap to be power break friendly
@@cuttersperformance not sure if im reading the card right but looks like that 1205 has 29* overlap?
@@junkyarddawgfixit8970 seat to seat overlap of 89 deg
@@cuttersperformance Roger that
I can’t wait for the part list video. My son and I have a two bolt main and four bolt main sitting in the garage itching for a good fun build!
Sorry for the delay on that video, been working like a dog. I will try to get that out ASAP
@@cuttersperformance you’re the man! 🤘🏼
I’m waiting on the entire list for the 2.0!!!
What parts are you wondering about specifically?
Well done, this is awesome.
The people worried about 11:1 on pump gas don't know anything about dynamic compression ratio. That's perfectly safe and you can push it even further.
Depends on the vehicle, ive done it but tuning can be abit tricky on heavier vehicles
Cam overlap and bleed off have a big influence on what compression can or can't be tolerated.
I am running 11:1 with a 218/228 @ 0.050 roller cam in a 7,000 lbs fullsize Expess van that tows 6,000-8,000 lbs trailers.
Do you have a 400 block?
Yes I'm doing a 406 vortec build
i wish you would port a set of the Chinese eBay cast iron cylinder heads. I had a set flowed and they are only around 210cfm @.500 and are relitivly thick castings that leaves a lot to port.
Got a part# or name I can search on ebay?
@cuttersperformance I had a set of the speed. Master ones flowed, buy a company called Eric weingarter racing out of Oklahoma. There's a video on youtube about it.
@@cuttersperformance PCE281.1755 speed master
thanks for posting the vacuum reading at idle rpm .
Pat out in the shop!
Really cool test and outcome! Can't wait for the 383!
Great video! AG
Thanks AG, we should get together for some dyno fun sometime
Were both cams on a 108 lsa?
Yes
Love it
👍
Thanks!
Thanks, Brother!
Can you make a detailed video on porting heads. Or have you already made one
Awesome!
I've got a bottom end to do a 383 hit me up. Been wanting to redo.
Can you supply me the uncorrected HP and the town the dyno sits in? Thanks
1.096 correction factor SAE.
Dyno is attitude is 574ft
Any flow numbers on the heads?
I got it bad, got it bad, got it bad, I'm hot for teacher.
Hell yeah 😎
Bad sooo bad...