Yup, no flashy graphics, no music, no sponsorships, no BS. Just "here's the job, here's how we do it, and why this way makes sense or is the best way to do it". Never change!
Many interesting things and clever ideas on how not to hit the T slot table. The chamfering helping in not hitting the table, very clever and simple. Thanks!
My father would take me on Saturdays to work with him in the 70s to a machine shop Criterion Machine works. Known for their boring heads, Bars. Early machines like these ran on punch tape. He was head of maintenance and would buy, repair, test and install new CNC machines for the pretty large shop. One side was manual machines, the other building was all CNC. No longer around, But it was very interesting to see the new machines with more capabilities.
You are correct. I have run this equipment. You punch a tape. This could be done from a computer with a tape punch. Or you could manually type/punch tape on the teletype. Than you put your tape in the tape reader on the machine. Than home the machine and read the tape. The machine just follows whatever the tapes commands are. In fact some of the commands in G code are hold over from those days. For instance the M30 is rewind the tape reader and the M02 just stops the program at its end without rewinding the tape at the programs end. This is NC. There was no stopping and rerunning just one tool or anything like that. It's more like what is known today as a drip/(Or DNC) feed program. Where the machine is nothing more than a glorified plotter.
That last mention of the coolant made me chuckle. Back in the late 80's, early 90's, where I did my apprenticeship changed from the sulfur oil and soluble oil to that Cimstar 40B Pink. Lololol, thanks for the flashback! I wouldn't doubt if those old guys still use it today. There's worse coolant for sure, but there's way better too.
Just started work with a pair of old timers, they've got a locker marked "private" full of prohibited chemicals, adhesives and whatever else they where forced to "throw away" over the years as the health and safety rep visited. Some of the stuff wasn't exactly warranted, but a lot was! But it's rarely used, mostly if it's problematic to do a job without it. Once they retire I'll probably junk most of it, but some of the adhesives are nice to keep.
great video as always, in one of your videos you mentioned you bougth your machines used, how was the process for buying them? what are the worst surprizes you have gottem from your machines? maybe a video about the process and what look for when buying used would be good watch for folks that are trying to get into cnc and dont have the money to buy from the showroom
@@EdgePrecision thanks to you for doing such an amazing content, also what has been the biggest limitation you have faced with your machines? getting tooling, size, precision, memory space etc when doing odd jobs
@@franciscolobaton7563 these older machines do have a memory limitation the way new cam software tool paths work. I have had to break large programs into multi-able smaller programs. The Older Mazak Integrex rotary axis don’t move as fast as the newer ones.
Galled/scatched ways is the worst surprise, IMO, at least on classic old cast iron slideway CNCs, means lots of work or beyond economical repair, depending on the rest of the machine.
@@EdgePrecision oh I saw that in one of your videos you had to do that, but from what I can see for the type of work you do the increment of speed from newer machines would not bring much to the table right? How expensive has been to do regular maintenance, have you had to service splindes?
On a vertical mill a vacuum table is OK. But I would worry about it on a horizontal mill in the vertical position. Although I have never tried it in a vertical position. So I don't really have anything to base that on. It might be OK.
Hi Peter great video! I wonder if it could fit in the Mazak. Also - I was interested to know more about the pallet changer. how repeatable is it? how do you not worry chips fall inside and make the pallet sit out of perpendicular or out of position for an accurate part?
The pallet is indexed by two pins around 1.375" in diameter that are around 28" apart. So if they had .0001" clearance on the pins, I don't think the accuracy if index would be a problem. In fact I can not tell the difference between pallet changes. It is also clamped down on six pads. These pads have small air holes in their faces that blow air during a change. When the pallet is unclamped. So far after running this machine for the past about ten years. The accuracy of the pallet change isn't even enough to even worry about. That said if I am boring a hole to .0001" tolerance. I don't do a pallet change until I have it done.
@@EdgePrecision You do cool stuff Peter I find it way more intresting than anything on t.v. your calm demeanor is somthing I'm envious of. I learn alot from your expierience's you show Thank's
Yes to get that much travel in the Y axis. Generally machines have a travel of around 65+ inches in the X axis. That’s a pretty large vertical or bridge mill.
This video needs to be used for training purposes Peter, it touches on every aspect of a seemingly "low skill" required part to produce to exposing the actual logic involved to minimize mistakes/oversights, you demonstrated the benefit of running the process through your "mind's eye" to vision the process long before putting material in place to create the part, superior execution.
Unfortunately we run the pink coolant. I’m always interested in what brand coolant folks use. I guess it doesn’t matter unless you use DI water which many people neglect. Even less people have a good filter
I use a Makino 1210 Horizontal and a A99 Makino. Shops tool to its needs. I would have used a bigger finish mill to face it. But thats because its available.
Thanks for sharing, interesting as always. I have not thought of using wax paper instead of printer paper, that would help reduce the coolant absorption. I have managed to make a large part similar to this on a manual vertical mill using a rotary table, was one hell of a faff though, this looks much easier :D Greg
Hi Peter - nice work as usual. Can you please tell me which Qualichem coolant you use? I can't quite make out the letters on the video. I have been having problems with a number of other brands including the CIMCOOL. It may be our water here but i would like to try something new. Many thanks
I would mount a aluminum pc 2inches thick on that T-slot table. With a modular pin locations and tapped holes. Mount it machine it. Face it when needed. Replace when worn. Saves on setup times. Doing rings is a different monster at time's.
I will probably never make a part like this again. So the investment in a aluminum plate worth as much as the part would not be worth it. It idea is to do the job with what I already have.
@@EdgePrecision check out Steven's engineering. We purchased some of it. Then made our own versions of it. Angles, mod blks, and the steel modular system for T-slots. It's work a peak.
Great video! I'm curious if the paper swelling was a consideration. Could the coolant swell the paper enough that you're milling a concave shape during the 1st facing op? If you had a wax/parchment paper or even a plastic sheet, could that be optimal? I really enjoy all you videos as a non machinist! Keep em' coming!
When I started this job. I looked for a piece of scrap sheet metal. Something like a piece of 16 gauge aluminum would be perfect. But I couldn't find anything so it was the paper. Wax paper would be better. I don't think enough coolant can get to the paper in the time it was there to make swelling a issue anyway. If real close precision is required this may not be the best way to go. The aluminum or steel sheet would be best. If plastic you would have to make sure it was uniform in thickness. Many plastic sheets vary in thickness quite a bit in the same sheet. Also it would have to be a hard plastic to avoid compressing where the tie downs are. Wood as suggested by some would also have the same issues as the plastic.
I wonder how much that ring “sprung” out of flatness when released from the parent material. Probably not a critical spec but it would be an interesting intellectual exercise to figure out how to machine that flat after getting rid of the center.
I didn't really check it on this part. There was no spec on the drawing for that. But if that was critical. It would be advisable to part off the part from the main material before machining the faces flat. That would be a much more complicated setup.
If you want to see how it happened watch the video on the stock prep for the 14 lb anvil. I was not paying attention jogging the machine. I had the wrong axis selected on the handle jog looking at the video cameras monitor. So I painted a Bozo face on it. Just a dumb mistake!
A long time ago I ran a machine with Cimcool coolant. It gave me a sore throat. It may be different now. I guess that just left me not wanting to use it. Centerline here uses it in their machines. I haven't heard people complaining about it. So it may be fine.
nice one. but if you love the mashine, next time use the grinded spacers (not that hard to make- i know its pain in the... but it will stay in the shop). for screw spacers. Do them with as much OD, as you can. And the rest falls to tehe prefference (i do like flat bars as they are easier to handle under the clamps or other kind of holding). i would choose thickness about 2mm (0.079"). all carefully grinded to flat and to be usable all over again. This what i said is based on time on hand AND knowledge of the mashine. I am looking forward for next horizontal video.
The one thing that the paper did is damp vibration. If I had put this rather large piece of only 1" plate on spacers. I would be fighting vibration when facing it. It would be OK to mill around the circles but the facing cut would have chattered. Even when I flipped it over to do the second side clamping directly to the pallet face. Just facing the ring just had a hint of vibration. If it had been setting on just 4 washers it would have been almost impossible to face without vibration.
@@EdgePrecision i see. i mentioned it as your setup did look allready rigid. 4 screws few clamps after facing. but its good to know this kind of experience. what i saw at the first look .. ok, face one side. Put it on spacers clamp it as much you can outside of the OD and get rid of the chunks.. then offcouse as you did clamp the thing with what ever you have at hand and finish it. i cant imagine any vibration so far but it can be my lack of experience as i am not in this trade long enough.
Yes as well as how you and the machine react to the coolant. Does it rust the machine is it hard to clean off the parts. Does it irritate your skin or your throat when you breath the mist. Does it go sour easy. Does it foam up with high pressure systems. These are all things to consider with coolant now days.
It could be done either way. I was programming with a old version of Esprit. The new version has a spiral facing cycle like you describe. It would have looked better on the finished part also.
As an amateur turner, is there a reason why you didnt probe Z to the surface of the upright pallet table? Since that is a more reliable reference surface? Good video though regardless
Thanks. I could have done that and set the offset up 1.25”. I did it the way in the video because I wanted to take the first/test cut right at the top surface. Just to see how it went. Look at the finish if it chattered things like that. Also it showed how flat things were. As you saw in the video where it didn’t quite clean up in a spot. Really as you point out all not necessary. But there is only one piece of customer supplied material so I was just being carful.
It seems strange watching this, when where I work we have a traveling head shaper. We have one CNC machine, it hasn't been turned on since we got it, every thing is done on DRO, callipers and eye.
The endmill in the video is a 5/8" 4 flute with a 1.63 cut length. It was already in the tool changer so that's what I used. No particular reason other than that. If you have proper coolant flow there really is no reason to need a 2-3 flute endmills in aluminum. That said if you are going to plunge into solid material a 2 flute would be better in aluminum. The tip of 3-more flute endmills can load up in the tip gashes easier. Depends on the aluminum type and heat treat.
Did you have any post machine issue with part flex? I've had aluminum flex badly on me when taking out large slugs before. I could see something like that go concave easily after such a large cut out. Like make a part to spec but it bad when inspection gets it. Does it not have a parallelism callout or do you just know something I dont?(probably the latter). Thanks for the video.
No but this customer supplied this material. I prefer to machine the same amount of material off both sides of aluminum plate. A little more than this to bet below the manufacturing stresses put into the material. This part wasn’t that precise so it wasn’t a problem.
Whats the expected error on the pallet going back in the mechine When I see this on you tube I don't see the latching serfice being cleaned. So in my tiny mind I think there is a chip laying on the serfice. Watching this channel I have seen quite a few pallet changes. Why is it not of concern or are we just not seeing this process.
There are actually small air holes in the mounting surfaces the pallet sets on. So as the pallet clamps down the air blows away any shavings. As far as I can tell the indexing accuracy of the pallet change is less that I can measure. You can take the pallet in and out without worrying about errors. That said when I’m boring holes to .0001” I’m going to finish that before moving the pallet.
Yes you can do larger parts by moving them with more operations. I was referring to doing it in one operation. The people this customer apparently weren’t willing to do that.
It’s a little thick for plasma in aluminum. But water jet could do it. But actually for one part it makes the part more difficult/expensive to do. If you were doing many of these it could be better. But for one in order to face the rings faces. Special holding methods on the mill would be required. A lathe would be possible if you had a chuck that could grip on 32” diameter. But I don’t have a chuck that big for the Mazak. Also I don’t like to give another shop money on a job if not necessary. There also wasn’t time to job that out to a water jet shop.
@@EdgePrecision im surprised you don't have a water jet machine or a lathe that big to compensate that size. What about making a fixture to mount it on your mazak lathe would have that worked?
The Mazak can handle a part this big in diameter. But I don't have a chuck that large. I have never needed to turn something this large in diameter (Until now). So it doesn't make sense to invest in a chuck that large. Better for me to use the horizontal mill.
@@EdgePrecision i understand. i was thinking you could have made a fixture for your chuck to hold the part on to it wiith clamps that's all. But srill worked great with what you had.
With the tool probe if it works. The control calculates the values when you probe the second direction. The next best would be a external toolsetter. I have manually touched one off but it is difficult to get it spot on. You have to make some calculations. Because the A and B values in the tool setup are not at 45 degrees. And the insert usually cant be touched off at the B zero position.
@@EdgePrecision Я и Минска. Радиация у нас в норме. Радиационные районы закрыты для посещения. Работаю в инструментальном производстве: пресс-формы, штампы и т.д. Сам пишу программы в mastercam.
It’s just a tool I had already in the tool changer. I generally don’t use special endmills for aluminum. I don’t machine a lot of aluminum to stock tooling just for that. For the small quantities of parts I make it doesn’t make any difference. The time saved in machining is not significant compared to the setup and programming.
Was the customer in a hurry? I would have brought that to the water jet guys for the ring and would have used the Mazak to finish it. If I would have a Mazak... 😢
It would have taken a lot of shim stock to properly support the part. I did consider a piece of sheet metal but we didn't have anything. So not wanting to spend money on that the paper was cheep and just required a little care to use.
They could of cut that part on waterjet and then had it finished machined by you. Might of been better maybe not idk. Probably would of caused some other headaches.
It would actually make the job harder to do. Or at least the fixturing harder. Sometimes to do one part it’s more economical to start this way. If you were making many of them. Than it would be worth it to spend time on fixturing the ring. But without that how do you hold the ring by itself to face it. With the bulk of material attached to it that makes it easy to hold and face. You see the problem with just the ring by itself. Only on a lathe with a big chuck could you face it. Or make some special clamping method on the mill to face it.
30 minute "quick" machining videos where you explain things along the way is the best "quick" we can find :)
Thanks for sharing!
"You can't just drill into the tombstone"
My apprentice:
*That's where you're wrong bucko*
My favorite machining channel.
Yup, no flashy graphics, no music, no sponsorships, no BS. Just "here's the job, here's how we do it, and why this way makes sense or is the best way to do it". Never change!
Many interesting things and clever ideas on how not to hit the T slot table. The chamfering helping in not hitting the table, very clever and simple. Thanks!
My new goto CNC and machining channel. You are so easy to listen to, and the explanations along he way are extra helpful. Subbed here! Keep well.
Once again a superb job of machining and explaining what is going on. Thanks very much Peter!!!!!
Peter, that's a great looking part thank you for sharing your intuitive skills! I enjoyed this lesson
Pre deburring is a game changer. I never cut in to my fixtures. It always blew my mind that people go .02-.05 or more in tot he fixture.
Chips and setups and wisdom!
This is the quality content I've come to expect. Thank you!
I just love to watch you run your machine, outstanding.......
Always very interesting to see your knowledge and idea's put to work. Thank you for sharing, greatly appreciated.
My father would take me on Saturdays to work with him in the 70s to a machine shop Criterion Machine works. Known for their boring heads, Bars. Early machines like these ran on punch tape. He was head of maintenance and would buy, repair, test and install new CNC machines for the pretty large shop. One side was manual machines, the other building was all CNC. No longer around, But it was very interesting to see the new machines with more capabilities.
As i remember it, in the 70s, things running on punch card/tape were pretty much NC numerical control with the computer (CNC ) part developed later.
You are correct. I have run this equipment. You punch a tape. This could be done from a computer with a tape punch. Or you could manually type/punch tape on the teletype. Than you put your tape in the tape reader on the machine. Than home the machine and read the tape. The machine just follows whatever the tapes commands are. In fact some of the commands in G code are hold over from those days. For instance the M30 is rewind the tape reader and the M02 just stops the program at its end without rewinding the tape at the programs end. This is NC. There was no stopping and rerunning just one tool or anything like that. It's more like what is known today as a drip/(Or DNC) feed program. Where the machine is nothing more than a glorified plotter.
That last mention of the coolant made me chuckle. Back in the late 80's, early 90's, where I did my apprenticeship changed from the sulfur oil and soluble oil to that Cimstar 40B Pink. Lololol, thanks for the flashback! I wouldn't doubt if those old guys still use it today. There's worse coolant for sure, but there's way better too.
Just started work with a pair of old timers, they've got a locker marked "private" full of prohibited chemicals, adhesives and whatever else they where forced to "throw away" over the years as the health and safety rep visited.
Some of the stuff wasn't exactly warranted, but a lot was! But it's rarely used, mostly if it's problematic to do a job without it. Once they retire I'll probably junk most of it, but some of the adhesives are nice to keep.
Nice one. Liked the paper trick. 👍👍👍
The familiar hum of a Nachi vane pump, the loudest sound of any idle machine tool.
I had to make a part like that, once. However, like you said because of machine limitations, I roughed it on a bandsaw and finished on a lathe.
Yes if the lathe is large enough that would work
Was thinking just how much cimcool stinks right when you mentioned it!! Keep the videos coming, love your content.
Great lesson on order of operations.
What a great machine, and what level of confidence with it you have! Cheers from Italy!
Very impressive. Enjoyed watching, thank you.
Nice work. Things are definitely picking up around here.
very good video peter ..thanks for your time
Thanks Tr!
Beautiful work as usual. Thanks for sharing.
That paper shim trick is a really great tip. Thanks!
Very good job peter
Hi Peter,
Really interesting video... thank you.
Take care.
Paul,,
great video as always, in one of your videos you mentioned you bougth your machines used, how was the process for buying them? what are the worst surprizes you have gottem from your machines? maybe a video about the process and what look for when buying used would be good watch for folks that are trying to get into cnc and dont have the money to buy from the showroom
That’s a idea. I will keep it in mind. Thanks!
@@EdgePrecision thanks to you for doing such an amazing content, also what has been the biggest limitation you have faced with your machines? getting tooling, size, precision, memory space etc when doing odd jobs
@@franciscolobaton7563 these older machines do have a memory limitation the way new cam software tool paths work. I have had to break large programs into multi-able smaller programs. The Older Mazak Integrex rotary axis don’t move as fast as the newer ones.
Galled/scatched ways is the worst surprise, IMO, at least on classic old cast iron slideway CNCs, means lots of work or beyond economical repair, depending on the rest of the machine.
@@EdgePrecision oh I saw that in one of your videos you had to do that, but from what I can see for the type of work you do the increment of speed from newer machines would not bring much to the table right? How expensive has been to do regular maintenance, have you had to service splindes?
We do stuff like that in the same way but on selfmade vacuum tables working pretty good 👍🏻
On a vertical mill a vacuum table is OK. But I would worry about it on a horizontal mill in the vertical position. Although I have never tried it in a vertical position. So I don't really have anything to base that on. It might be OK.
Thanks for sharing!
I always enjoy your videos! :)
Awesome content I would love more horizontal mill videos
very nice job Peter
Hi Peter great video! I wonder if it could fit in the Mazak. Also - I was interested to know more about the pallet changer. how repeatable is it? how do you not worry chips fall inside and make the pallet sit out of perpendicular or out of position for an accurate part?
The pallet is indexed by two pins around 1.375" in diameter that are around 28" apart. So if they had .0001" clearance on the pins, I don't think the accuracy if index would be a problem. In fact I can not tell the difference between pallet changes. It is also clamped down on six pads. These pads have small air holes in their faces that blow air during a change. When the pallet is unclamped. So far after running this machine for the past about ten years. The accuracy of the pallet change isn't even enough to even worry about. That said if I am boring a hole to .0001" tolerance. I don't do a pallet change until I have it done.
Nicely done nicely setup
THANK YOU, VERRY INTERSTING. REGARDS RICHARD.
"You can't just drill into the tombstone" Fusion 360: "hold my beer"
Another intresting project, What some sort of seal ring. 32" some sort of hatch. Thanks ! love the integrex but the mill is still satisfying.
Unfortunately I can’t elaborate on the actual use of the part. But it isn’t the ones you suggest.
@@EdgePrecision You do cool stuff Peter I find it way more intresting than anything on t.v. your calm demeanor is somthing I'm envious of. I learn alot from your expierience's you show Thank's
Thank you for sharing.
We have 3 DMG-125 that would do it but you are right, they are massive machines
Yes to get that much travel in the Y axis. Generally machines have a travel of around 65+ inches in the X axis. That’s a pretty large vertical or bridge mill.
This video needs to be used for training purposes Peter, it touches on every aspect of a seemingly "low skill" required part to produce to exposing the actual logic involved to minimize mistakes/oversights, you demonstrated the benefit of running the process through your "mind's eye" to vision the process long before putting material in place to create the part, superior execution.
Very cool. Thanks!
Many thanks! Always interesting!
Thanks Pete, nice video. Best I could do: bunch of hours with a jig saw and some files but don't think my compass would go that big.
Great idea using the paper!
Unfortunately we run the pink coolant. I’m always interested in what brand coolant folks use. I guess it doesn’t matter unless you use DI water which many people neglect. Even less people have a good filter
Nice video, interesting set up 👍
I use a Makino 1210 Horizontal and a A99 Makino. Shops tool to its needs. I would have used a bigger finish mill to face it. But thats because its available.
don't see J16 very often. nice work.
I used to have a rotary table that I got cheap because it was so big nobody wanted it! Would have been great for this job!
I remember maritool (zala machine), another youtube channel, had a 4th axis positioned vertically in a vmc to do a large part like this :D
i dunno why but the song break on through by the Doors pop into my mind when you were trying to cut thru just enough to touch the paper LOL
Thanks for sharing, interesting as always. I have not thought of using wax paper instead of printer paper, that would help reduce the coolant absorption. I have managed to make a large part similar to this on a manual vertical mill using a rotary table, was one hell of a faff though, this looks much easier :D
Greg
Great job!
Great video!
Very neat, thanks.
Ya, that setup is plenty solid. Cap screws and Kant twist clamps is how I do a lot of jobs.
Hi Peter - nice work as usual. Can you please tell me which Qualichem coolant you use?
I can't quite make out the letters on the video.
I have been having problems with a number of other brands including the CIMCOOL.
It may be our water here but i would like to try something new.
Many thanks
Xtreme cut 250c it the Qualichem concentrate I use.
I would mount a aluminum pc 2inches thick on that T-slot table. With a modular pin locations and tapped holes. Mount it machine it. Face it when needed. Replace when worn. Saves on setup times. Doing rings is a different monster at time's.
I will probably never make a part like this again. So the investment in a aluminum plate worth as much as the part would not be worth it. It idea is to do the job with what I already have.
@@EdgePrecision check out Steven's engineering. We purchased some of it. Then made our own versions of it. Angles, mod blks, and the steel modular system for T-slots. It's work a peak.
Great video!
I'm curious if the paper swelling was a consideration. Could the coolant swell the paper enough that you're milling a concave shape during the 1st facing op?
If you had a wax/parchment paper or even a plastic sheet, could that be optimal?
I really enjoy all you videos as a non machinist! Keep em' coming!
When I started this job. I looked for a piece of scrap sheet metal. Something like a piece of 16 gauge aluminum would be perfect. But I couldn't find anything so it was the paper. Wax paper would be better. I don't think enough coolant can get to the paper in the time it was there to make swelling a issue anyway. If real close precision is required this may not be the best way to go. The aluminum or steel sheet would be best. If plastic you would have to make sure it was uniform in thickness. Many plastic sheets vary in thickness quite a bit in the same sheet. Also it would have to be a hard plastic to avoid compressing where the tie downs are. Wood as suggested by some would also have the same issues as the plastic.
Im a fan of yours, was wondering if u ever check ur coolant and if u do where do u keep it on the refractometer
Yes I check it. I like it to be around 10 on the refractometer. I make up around 5.
Me 2 , I keep at 10,11 don't seem to get better tool life if I go any higher, especially when cutting inconel
I wonder how much that ring “sprung” out of flatness when released from the parent material. Probably not a critical spec but it would be an interesting intellectual exercise to figure out how to machine that flat after getting rid of the center.
I didn't really check it on this part. There was no spec on the drawing for that. But if that was critical. It would be advisable to part off the part from the main material before machining the faces flat. That would be a much more complicated setup.
Nice Video as always Pete. Maybe someone needs a Vertical borer, hint hint. lol
I like the face on the vice thanks for the vid!
If you want to see how it happened watch the video on the stock prep for the 14 lb anvil. I was not paying attention jogging the machine. I had the wrong axis selected on the handle jog looking at the video cameras monitor. So I painted a Bozo face on it. Just a dumb mistake!
Mill trepanning. :-)
Great video thanks. Why dont you ise the cimcool coolant? Thats what we use on our machines
A long time ago I ran a machine with Cimcool coolant. It gave me a sore throat. It may be different now. I guess that just left me not wanting to use it. Centerline here uses it in their machines. I haven't heard people complaining about it. So it may be fine.
Edge Precision i see. Thanks for the reply 👍🏼
nice one. but if you love the mashine, next time use the grinded spacers (not that hard to make- i know its pain in the... but it will stay in the shop). for screw spacers. Do them with as much OD, as you can. And the rest falls to tehe prefference (i do like flat bars as they are easier to handle under the clamps or other kind of holding). i would choose thickness about 2mm (0.079"). all carefully grinded to flat and to be usable all over again.
This what i said is based on time on hand AND knowledge of the mashine.
I am looking forward for next horizontal video.
The one thing that the paper did is damp vibration. If I had put this rather large piece of only 1" plate on spacers. I would be fighting vibration when facing it. It would be OK to mill around the circles but the facing cut would have chattered. Even when I flipped it over to do the second side clamping directly to the pallet face. Just facing the ring just had a hint of vibration. If it had been setting on just 4 washers it would have been almost impossible to face without vibration.
@@EdgePrecision i see. i mentioned it as your setup did look allready rigid. 4 screws few clamps after facing. but its good to know this kind of experience.
what i saw at the first look .. ok, face one side. Put it on spacers clamp it as much you can outside of the OD and get rid of the chunks.. then offcouse as you did clamp the thing with what ever you have at hand and finish it.
i cant imagine any vibration so far but it can be my lack of experience as i am not in this trade long enough.
Interesting. It's all about the details.
What's the distinction in the coolants?
Different coolants can matter. I was just pointing out I didn't use the one you could see in the video. People will ask questions if they see it.
@@EdgePrecision Different lubricating/ cooling properties with different materials in guessing?
Yes as well as how you and the machine react to the coolant. Does it rust the machine is it hard to clean off the parts. Does it irritate your skin or your throat when you breath the mist. Does it go sour easy. Does it foam up with high pressure systems. These are all things to consider with coolant now days.
@@EdgePrecision Alright then. Many different considerations. Health is definitely tops on list.
Thank you for your response.
Good stuff!
Is there a reason to face in a straight line rather than face circular inwards on the part?
It could be done either way. I was programming with a old version of Esprit. The new version has a spiral facing cycle like you describe. It would have looked better on the finished part also.
As an amateur turner, is there a reason why you didnt probe Z to the surface of the upright pallet table? Since that is a more reliable reference surface? Good video though regardless
Thanks. I could have done that and set the offset up 1.25”. I did it the way in the video because I wanted to take the first/test cut right at the top surface. Just to see how it went. Look at the finish if it chattered things like that. Also it showed how flat things were. As you saw in the video where it didn’t quite clean up in a spot. Really as you point out all not necessary. But there is only one piece of customer supplied material so I was just being carful.
@@EdgePrecision no problem and fair enough, keep up the good work mate
Excellent
Hey Peter, who is your little buddy milled into the side of your Kurt vice 👹??? We got a good look at him around 22:20
Mr Bozo.
Chuckle, I wish it was impossible to mill into the pallet base, or the vise, or a fixture plate.
Definitely not something you want to do though!
Trappaning is cool
It seems strange watching this, when where I work we have a traveling head shaper. We have one CNC machine, it hasn't been turned on since we got it, every thing is done on DRO, callipers and eye.
good job ...!!!
Is it common for your customers to want their scrap shipped to them with the parts?
Yes
How big of an endmill until you go to 4 flute in aluminum? I've always used 2 or 3 flute in aluminum but I rarely ever cut anything big.
The endmill in the video is a 5/8" 4 flute with a 1.63 cut length. It was already in the tool changer so that's what I used. No particular reason other than that. If you have proper coolant flow there really is no reason to need a 2-3 flute endmills in aluminum. That said if you are going to plunge into solid material a 2 flute would be better in aluminum. The tip of 3-more flute endmills can load up in the tip gashes easier. Depends on the aluminum type and heat treat.
@@EdgePrecision Thank you for your insight Peter! I really appreciate all your videos and your wealth of knowledge!
Did you have any post machine issue with part flex? I've had aluminum flex badly on me when taking out large slugs before. I could see something like that go concave easily after such a large cut out. Like make a part to spec but it bad when inspection gets it. Does it not have a parallelism callout or do you just know something I dont?(probably the latter). Thanks for the video.
No but this customer supplied this material. I prefer to machine the same amount of material off both sides of aluminum plate. A little more than this to bet below the manufacturing stresses put into the material. This part wasn’t that precise so it wasn’t a problem.
@@EdgePrecision thank you
عمل ممتاز
شكرا لك. أعتقد أن هذا هو أول تعليق تلقيته على اللغة العربية.
Just missing clamps is one of the only things I don't like about machining.... That feeling as it goes close.
Nice!!!
enjoyed
I'd have it waterjet cut but it wouldn't be perfectly round. And it would be tapered too. Have to be finished on a big lathe. It gets expensive.
Muito bom !
Whats the expected error on the pallet going back in the mechine
When I see this on you tube I don't see the latching serfice being cleaned. So in my tiny mind I think there is a chip laying on the serfice. Watching this channel I have seen quite a few pallet changes. Why is it not of concern or are we just not seeing this process.
There are actually small air holes in the mounting surfaces the pallet sets on. So as the pallet clamps down the air blows away any shavings. As far as I can tell the indexing accuracy of the pallet change is less that I can measure. You can take the pallet in and out without worrying about errors. That said when I’m boring holes to .0001” I’m going to finish that before moving the pallet.
Cool i like that
I think I seen ox do a 30 in or so on his vertical mill .maybe even bigger. On his etching press build .
Yes you can do larger parts by moving them with more operations. I was referring to doing it in one operation. The people this customer apparently weren’t willing to do that.
Ox?
@@MostlyPeacefulWACO I think he was referring to Tom Lipton of OxTool.
@@EdgePrecision I thought so too. I haven't seen Tom put out a video in months. I hope he's OK.
@@MostlyPeacefulWACO I think Tom (OxTools) has been busy. Every now and then he pops up on Instagram.
Nice setup
why couldn't you plasma cut the part and finish it off
It’s a little thick for plasma in aluminum. But water jet could do it. But actually for one part it makes the part more difficult/expensive to do. If you were doing many of these it could be better. But for one in order to face the rings faces. Special holding methods on the mill would be required. A lathe would be possible if you had a chuck that could grip on 32” diameter. But I don’t have a chuck that big for the Mazak. Also I don’t like to give another shop money on a job if not necessary. There also wasn’t time to job that out to a water jet shop.
@@EdgePrecision im surprised you don't have a water jet machine or a lathe that big to compensate that size.
What about making a fixture to mount it on your mazak lathe would have that worked?
The Mazak can handle a part this big in diameter. But I don't have a chuck that large. I have never needed to turn something this large in diameter (Until now). So it doesn't make sense to invest in a chuck that large. Better for me to use the horizontal mill.
@@EdgePrecision i understand.
i was thinking you could have made a fixture for your chuck to hold the part on to it wiith clamps that's all.
But srill worked great with what you had.
Nice 👍
I thought you said the machine would not run with the doors open.
This was interesting.
The Mazak not this machine.
If you like coolant and chips in your face, a couple wraps of electrical tape over the switch can make that happen for you!
@@gorak9000 not on the Mazak. It has automatic doors the switches can’t be blocked. It just gives a alarm.
Hello Sir
What is best way to set (tool data) 45 degree turning tool in integrex?
With the tool probe if it works. The control calculates the values when you probe the second direction. The next best would be a external toolsetter. I have manually touched one off but it is difficult to get it spot on. You have to make some calculations. Because the A and B values in the tool setup are not at 45 degrees. And the insert usually cant be touched off at the B zero position.
Отлично!
Лайк из Беларуси!👍
У меня MAZAK FJV 35/60
Вау Беларусь! это далеко отсюда. Надеюсь, вы не живете рядом с радиоактивным районом. Или это все еще проблема?
@@EdgePrecision
Я и Минска. Радиация у нас в норме. Радиационные районы закрыты для посещения.
Работаю в инструментальном производстве: пресс-формы, штампы и т.д. Сам пишу программы в mastercam.
Why didn't you just use 1/8" stand off washers behind, where the bolts go through?
Vibration probably, the paper would dampen out chatter whereas the washers would increase it.
What Lawrence Ott said is correct the part is better supported for the facing cuts when its against the fixture.
Do you use RO or DI water for your coolant?
No just regular tap water.
This endmill looks like for steel not for aluminium, am I wrong?
It’s just a tool I had already in the tool changer. I generally don’t use special endmills for aluminum. I don’t machine a lot of aluminum to stock tooling just for that. For the small quantities of parts I make it doesn’t make any difference. The time saved in machining is not significant compared to the setup and programming.
Yeah, I think I've seen John Saunders do something like this.
Was the customer in a hurry?
I would have brought that to the water jet guys for the ring and would have used the Mazak to finish it.
If I would have a Mazak... 😢
What is your go to coolant for Superalloys in your lathe and mill
The coolant you saw in this video. I don’t change the coolant for different materials.
I couldn't read the coolant. What is it specifically? Thanks.
QualChem extreme cut.
Can I ask why you choose paper instead of shim stock?
It would have taken a lot of shim stock to properly support the part. I did consider a piece of sheet metal but we didn't have anything. So not wanting to spend money on that the paper was cheep and just required a little care to use.
What program you use?
I use Esprit Cam and SpaceClaim for Cad.
They could of cut that part on waterjet and then had it finished machined by you. Might of been better maybe not idk. Probably would of caused some other headaches.
It would actually make the job harder to do. Or at least the fixturing harder. Sometimes to do one part it’s more economical to start this way. If you were making many of them. Than it would be worth it to spend time on fixturing the ring. But without that how do you hold the ring by itself to face it. With the bulk of material attached to it that makes it easy to hold and face. You see the problem with just the ring by itself. Only on a lathe with a big chuck could you face it. Or make some special clamping method on the mill to face it.