BUSTING THE MYTH about TS9 and TS808 Tubescreamer circuits
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- The discussion on TS9 and TS808 tubescreamer tone debates has been going on for years. There has been a wide variety of opinions and debates on the massive (or minuscule) sound/tone difference in between them. If you’re curious about the part differences between the two nearly-identical tube screamer circuits, a quick google search will provide a plethora of information.
You can also see my other video ( • Busting the myth of ma... ) to see just how much an opamp does or does not change the sound nearly as much as many have been believing.
Comments from the beginning of the video were from various gear forums
Seriously dude? My super awesome vintage 808 was just about to go on Reverb for $600 so I can buy my cat dancing lessons. You just ruined it for me. And for Tinkerbell.
So fuckin edgy and hardcore bro
This is a strange comment section lol 😂
My dancing lessons for cats are much cheaper. I hope you don''t give up on your dreams......
But does your guitar sound better running through your cat?
I had to paws for a moment and give a good cry for poor Tinkerbell.
I find the 808 has a woodier, oakier fragrance with a hint of flaccidity and a soupcon of the Absurd
I'd hate to think what attributes you would arrive at with a "Big Muff". :)
If you bottled it, you could give it a wine rating.
Yes, and a sophisticated decay reminiscent of a Persian cat fornicating in a sherry cask.
A barrel-aged TS808 will always exhibit hints of vanilla in the nose, while a fresh TS9 is fruitier, reminiscent of black currant. In reality, though, the TS9 only outputs about .02 amperes of black currant.
Its a little bit after birthy.
The 808 has a bigger sound cause it's a bigger number
Hold on... yup. Math checks out. It's a bigger number. Science means it's a bigger sound.
Well, it's 799 bigger, innit?
...And a bigger price tag.
big muff has bigger sound than 808 because its bigger
That's quick maths.
The TS9 has a more yellow-ish tone where the 808 is more triangular.
Tim McLean oh god I can't stand when people do this
I'd say it has more of a reddish orangish tone and more cubical
For y'all synesthesic people out there
🤣🤣
I don't know if that statement is true, but I couldn't argue that's wrong.
Brian, remember those vintage pedals were wired with unicorn hair. Your test is invalid.
You‘re wrong! They were wired with Jimmy Hendrixs pubic hair...
LOL
That's just a myth, already busted in a previous video.
I'm sticking with the switch. You can clearly hear the smaller switch on the 808. The TS9 has a bigger sound as a result, but some would argue that it's not as focused.
You're all wrong they were made from Keith Richards used needles.
I loved when you set down your coffee (beverage). Possibly the most important piece of gear in that room.
I'm happy with my Joyo Vintage OD. It does that green pedal thing for me. A tool, nothing more.
Crunch2 yeap i love that pedal too. The components are higher quality than ts9 as well hahaha
Joyo pedals are clutch
A Harbor Freight tool can often get the job done as well as say a Snap-on.
Yeah I love the way my LTD sounds when I shred it jacked into my starbucks cup... RAWWWWWWK
MAD RESPECT!!! More people need to be like you when shooting out stuff and ABing them. Don’t tell or show what is what. Guitar nerds like me hear with their eyes and don’t go after the actual best sound. They like what they want, stubborn and they rarely change their mind.
I used to be the same way.
At one point I owned an 808, a TS 9, and a TS 10 and could detect no major discernible differences between them. I just thought I had lousy ears. Thanks Brian!
The funny thing is, talking about the gain knob’s effect on the TS9/808 is like eating a banana without peeling it. The best way to use these pedals is gain low and the volume boosted in front of a CRANKED amp.
Most comments on forums are bedroom levels through an SM57 which can only hear a fraction of the freqs.
When people test, I suggest cranking and using 3 mics. A bass mic, an sm57 style for mids and a condenser good for highs to capture the air. Then you get the full picture re freqs.
Great vid by the way. Keep em coming.
Not all use them that way.
Yeah well, I don't really like circle of tone after the clickbate video about moeer preamps being as good as kemper etc...he's kind of a weirdo. I remember him being the tock tock guy always edgy etc on forums.
There isn't a correct way to use something, it's about what is usefull to a guitarist I guess and I always love watching videos and picking things up.
The tube screamer is as much a normal overdrive as it is a hi gain boost, in fact it started primarly as a "distortion pedal" of the era if you think about it...SRV certainly didn't use it as a hi gain boost.
Peavey solid states of old can be killer amps though. I've got some hi endish stuff (brunetti soldano mesa amps, peavey tube and other stuff) and I am still amazed on what they accomplished with a humble peavey bandit. And that amp certainly doesn't need a boost.
Gain pot is just one part though. Imagine how different amps sound from eachother. We should be A/Bing different models much less and A/Bing some of the same much more.
No.
For you. Not THE best way.
Nicely shown, I just knew there wasn't any huge differences. Love your tech vids, keep them coming!
How have I only just found your channel? It's freaking awesome, thank you for the great content.
So, the JHS Bonsai is only simulating potentiometer variances?
I absolute LOVE people talking about physical facts and effects, rather than opinions and perception! 🤘
Thank you for clearing that up for me once and for all.
We need more of this kind of video. So much nonsense can be dispelled by simple A/B testing under controlled conditions.
WOW! Exactly the same, Thank you for this nice demonstration.
You are Great!
"Take the TS and get rid of the BS"
You're a champ! 🏆
My friend has a TS9 he bought new in the 80's. I have a reissue TS808 I bought new about two years ago. I compared them side by side - same amp, guitar, settings, etc. - and they sound almost identical. That tells me one of two things. Either I'm tone deaf or the pedals are extremely similar. And Ibanez did a great job of making something new sound vintage.
Great video!
Ibanez makes no money off used pedals. So its in there interest to make new ones that sound exactly like the old ones.
How do they do this?
They simply make the same circuit....
Funny, I used to be into "Hi-Fi", bought the magazines, lusted after the high end stuff...but realised (as luckily i do have a hobbyist background in electronics) that so much of the 'differences" between gear was down to "wish fulfilment" especially when it comes down to things like components. Like being able to hear the differences between different brands of (extremely expensive) speaker wire, etc. etc.
Yes,you are absolutely right, a circuit will have it's own sound, and that is down to the actual circuit topology being used. All components have tolerance ranges, and most of the tiny differences between ostensibly identical devices are pretty much down to that. So like amps and especially pedals, no two devices ,even though they came of the production process next to each other, will be identical. However, the circuit topology used in the device will determine how much of a difference component tolerances lends to the device. You can buy a pedal from Amazon (Biyang OD-8 X-Drive) which is an overdrive pedal with a cover on the back where you can swap out the op-amp in the drive circuit for different types (i.e. manufacturer) to get the sound you want. Try it. the only differences you will hear are due to the gain of the op-amp and the way the circuit is implemented in the op-amp. No magic involved...
Guitarists are told that "orange drop" caps are great, and cheap disc ceramics are crap. and of course hideously expensive hand made oil and paper caps are the best, "...'cause that's what they used in the 50's. man, it's vintage, so it's better, so take my money!"
Sadly, there will always be a lot of snake oil, especially amongst guitarists, where "Vintage: is venerated, and "New" is dismissed.
Uh... you said you have a background in electronics, but you should never use ceramics in audio applications... ever. They are microphonic. That is the one case where it actually does make a difference. Now, orange drop caps are stupid, but you can just use any old film capacitor instead.
this is EXACTLY spot-on! its confirmation bias (i.e. wish fulfillment). We tend to find or focus on the evidence (audio or otherwise) that CONFIRMS our pre-existing notions or worldview... same exact thing with the Chump supporters... if a person has a provincial/ simplistic worldview and hates immigrants and minorities... they dont hear Chump telling an average of 15 provably false lies per day.... Because what he says completely fits into their understanding of how the world is... and indeed those things "could" be true... Just like if you paid vintage price for an 808 you are likely to read comments that highlight the (insignificant) circuit differences and will focus on the comments that confirm your pre-existing notion which rationalizes your paying way too much for a vintage 808. There are many studies on this type of human behavior and the "double blind" test and many other concepts in social science derive from it. You hit it right on Tim Beaton!!!!
This is useful. I'm going to buy a TS. I posted a thread on TGP asking for recommendations. Actually the majority of comments were along these lines, i.e., "don't buy into all the crap, just get a TS9 or a TS mini". There were a lot of recommendations for TS type pedals from other companies, but not many people saying you have to have a vintage 808 or anything.
CNCTEMATIC If you like it, you should also get an SD-1. Same but different.
I play a lot of fast, palm muted staccato note metal. Keeping the palm mutes fluid with just enough attack to stay "heavy" is better suited for the 808. If you want palm mutes that cut to the bone but feel stiffer get the ts-9. If you don't even play metal get the 808.
One chip in TS9 does suck without a doubt, a 7555 digits on it. Put in a socket and install any of the other chips and R104 with a 2.2k ohm R114 with 100 ohm and R115 with 10k ohm.
Electronic guys never can speak sense but they never shut up. Pot resistance was miniscule in the video.
I modded mine 50 times it seems with different things, foil burned off jumper wires everywhere, all the websites are done by lunatics who cannot explain anything... the above was all I needed. here is a photo of options:
media.stinkfoot.se/2010/11/TSmod.jpg
I get note of Carmel in the ts9. But notes of vanilla in the 808.
Hoo-boy. Maybe the only thing worse than self-professed "golden eared audiophiles" are "golden eared guitar gearheads". :D Brian, get ready - this could end up as bad as the tone-wood ragewar. lol
I get it though. It can be so crushing and disillusioning when factual stuff like science and engineering calls into question long-held, often beloved pre-conceptions. There's gotta be a psychological term for this...
cheers man!
Cognitive dissonance? Or was your question rhetorical?
@@rich1051414 Confirmation bias.
@@jeffbrown-hill7739 In the field of psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort experienced by a person who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values. This discomfort is triggered by a situation in which a person’s belief clashes with new evidence perceived by the person.
I think Richard got it right.
Loved this video... Please make a how to video on pedal casings for people who Have a humble budget and not many tools and facilities to work with.. Am thinking about going to an electrical shop and look for a small switch box preferably metal..
The funny thing is this video confirms the magic and mystery of pedals is still there... it's just in the blend of tolerances rather than minor circuit differences. I guess it means if you find a particular individual pedal you like you better hang on to it! I do feel sorry for store owners though as I'm sure some people will take this to heart and the cry of, "let me try these three types of tube screamer" will change to, "let me try every tube screamer you have in stock... they're all different.... Brian Wampler said so." :P
That's the beauty of analog I suppose!
Am I the only one who thought the upper mid/treble characteristic was different in the two modes he played? I still think the ts9 has a brighter character.
Yes you are, because there was no difference. You THINK there is a difference, so your ears perceive a difference.
Nice Brian. What is the difference circuit wise? And why is there a difference?
I've never got to A/B them myself, but from all the demos I've seen the differences are generally the differences in settings primarily on the tone control.
excellent explanation. I do prefer the 808 circuit and yes i can hear the difference
Great vid.
Tolerance is a bit of an insidious "myth killer" when one actually looks at manufacturing.
The manufacturer doesn't say "I'm going to make a batch of 250k 5% resistors/pots"... they simply make a batch of resistors, and those that fall within tolerance are marked as 250k.
Here's the rub... Any resistor that is within 5% of 250k will be marked with a gold band for 5%. That means that you will *never* find a resistor marked with a silver 10% band that is within 5% of the rated value, no, all of the silver resistors will be somewhere between 5.1% and 10%.
That's pretty cool info and obvious (when you tell me). Thanks.
+35years a tech and I agree 100 % that the tolerances between components is the reason for the differences between even the same model pedal/guitar/device/amp... Pots typically have tolerances of 20% so everything from 400K to 600k is considered "serviceable" for a 500k pot.... Gibson in their ES factory sorts their stocks of 500k pots into groupings of 5k ranges so both tone and volume control in any single ES style guitar are within 1% of each other, but comparing one ES against another ES in the volume and tone control department could and often is vastly different.... Same can be said for amps & pedals from any and every mass producing manufacturer... Custom built or special editions of anything where 1% tolerance between components is the norm can be had, but at an appropriate financial penalty... And then there is the similar adjacent subject of 'Matched tubes'....
Thank you very much. I guess either one will do just fine. There are a lot of factors to consider. Pots, patch cables, marshall or fender, les paul or strat, string gauge, picks order of pedals, buffers.......whichever i end up buying, I will have to tweak to my current rig. Period. I feel better.
well I've made te 808 mod on a ts9 and the change is more on the resistors values which are changing. The sound of the chipset is a legend...blind tests are really helping. Our brain hears just what we expect! thanks!
I stopped the video after the first couple changes on the circuit because I don't actually care which is which but when the switch was flicked from the first to the 2nd option there's far more high-end signal. Will watch the rest to see which is which but IMO there's a very noticeable tone difference. It's almost inaudible frequencies though but you can feel that there's this uncomfortable excess higher-frequency in the signal even on a recording with reasonable headphones or monitors. Because of the range it's in I think you could pretty easily wipe it out with an EQ so for practical purposes it probably doesn't matter as long as you know it's there but there is a distinct difference between the two circuits. I got through the first 3 circuit changes and there's a definitive high-end ring on whatever the 2nd circuit is.
I almost never comment anything... but just had to this time. I also hate to disagree, but I clearly hear the difference, instantly guessed which one the TS9 was and still prefer it over TS808. Guys don't hate me please... there is a difference, I had both, played them live and really like TS9 better. It also "feels" a bit different when I play... more "responsive".. hard to describe.Thanks for the comparison! Peace to you all!
Yes, but I think his point was that the difference you're hearing has less to do with circuit design differences, and more to do with tolerance values for different components. He could do a side-by-side with a pair of TS9s and people would swear they hear a difference, possibly because the gain pot on one has a Ohm reading of 515k, while the other reads 480k.
I happen to have both a TS-808 and a TS-9, both are re-issues, and to my ears they do sound very similar except that the TS-9 seems to have a little bit more lows in the tone and a hair more gain, which could very well be down to component tolerances, the TS-808 to my ears sounds a little bit more rawer, the TS-808 and TS-9 circuit are pretty much identical except for some minor component value changes (the component changes are mostly in and around the output buffer), you can quite easily mod the TS-808 circuit to TS-9 specs and vice versa, check out the Technology Of The Tubescreamer on the GEO (Guitar Effects Oriented) website.
I bet Eric Johnson would know which one sounds the best....
He would probably also claim that one would sound better than the other if it had another brand of 9V battery in it, and also which screws that were used to plug the pedal case together.
I thought the 808 sounded a little bit better subjectively
What's quite interesting is that I recently got a TS9/TS808 pedal that has a switch to switch the circuits (I'm guessing the boards are stacked inside? Not had it apart yet) but obviously, the pots on the pedal are common for the two circuits.
There is a subtle difference when you switch over, BUT, I wonder if that has been "engineered in" to it so the customer feels like they're getting "two circuits"?
Waters further muddied.
Bingo. Ibanez can rename and sell a new pedal without much effort.
@@c1arkj The all new TS-909!!! From Ibanez!! Hope you all read that in an amazing American voice-over voice because I typed it in amazing American voice-over voice... Whaddya mean ya can't tell the difference?!?! It's not like it's a tube screa... oh wait... PHILISTINES!! *shakes fist*
I hope Wampler puts some of these comments on t-shirts. Hilarious! I own a few Tube Screamers and this helps with the question of “Why do none of these five pedals sound the same?” Thought maybe a couple had been modded, but no evidence of re-soldering. Thanks Brian?
Brilliant as always.
He didn't mention one thing: this parts also change its properties during time - pedals sound different with age. I'm not kidding. So, there is a chance that vintage pedals with the same circuit as a new one will sound slightly different.
Yes, due to component drift, which has the same results as tolerance differences. 😊
_More_ results than tolerance differences. Drift can easily halve or double a component's value -- or worse yet, make it behave totally different hot than it does cold. This is a much wider swing than component tolerance allows for.
Tolerance is meant to include the varying of value with temperature. I don't think it takes into account long-term drift. It's hard to say if modern components suffer from long term drift. We don't use ancient carbon comp resistors any more.
Electrolytic capacitors drift quite significantly with age, especially in equipment made 10 to 15 years ago due to "capacitor plague". If they haven't exploded, it's generally safe to assume they're well out of spec by now. Fortunately, the much lower operating voltage of solid state equipment means that the sound will suffer and perhaps the circuit will misbehave, but it is highly unlikely to harm the user. The same can't be said of leaky capacitors meant to suppress high voltage DC in tube circuits.
So if old components have value drift, how do I know what a vintage TS808 sounds like? By now they should all be completely different. If one sounds good, it's just coincidence that the components changed value in a way that produces a nice tone.
He didn't measure the difference of ohmage in the positions of the footswitch. The up position was clearly brighter.
Thank you! I LOL at some of those comments at the beginning. People will convince themselves of anything
I love both but I own neither! I do own a modded Boss SD-1 which I also love...
same here
Greetings, I think what the author meant to say is that any two vintage pedals are going to sound different given the tolerances of the parts. Pots have a 10% tolerance, resistors - 5%, caps 10 - 20%, etc. Modern surface mount parts have much tighter tolerances so that modern Chinese made pedals will pretty much all sound alike within a given model. This is basic electronics 101.
So what is the main difference between them, are they both equally as good for getting a huge Stevie Ray type monster huge bluesy tone? Do they both have opamps? What is your final statement on this?
That's the biggest solder sucker I've ever seen.
luckyno888 that's what she said
I have an original TS 808 very good condition and in the original box with the original leaflet in the box.......A true collectors dream. Won't take a penny less than $1200 for it either!
I absolutely love this dude and his reviews!!
whats the Wampler equivalent? I bought a Wampler Tape Echo and so far am a fan of your stuff.
I first bought at TS9 as a reissue in 1996. It simply blew a Boss OD or SO away. It was louder and fatter overall than both Boss ODs. I also borrowed a friends original TS9 from 1983 and they sounded identical. However, I broke the switch THREE times on the reissue. Don't know why they used cheap switches. I ended up buying a JVC chip off Ebay as that is the revered chip in TS808. The pedal, once I fixed the broken switch, sounded a touch warmer with a little less high end. A few years back,I bought the reissue TS808 with that chip as thats really the only difference between either pedal. I compared that to the reissue TS9 that I still owned and they both sounded the same. The sound difference between the two then, vintage or reissue, TS808 or TS9 is minimal. The only thing I don't like about the TS808 is the tiny switch. It can be hard to activate but at least it has not broken since I owned it. If people want to talk SRV, he actually used BOTH pedals.
All TS's sound like mushy green lumps of midrange. The reason they're so popular is that they correct the Strat's complete lack of mid range and ease some of the shrill treble.
He’s not wrong.
Which is not to say there isn’t a difference between the 808 sound and the TS 9. Sure, it isn’t much but it’s identifiable and it’s ok to have a preference.
just ordered a Demon Tube Screamer TS808/TS9 for 20€s shipped, thats my grocery pedal! never been a masssive fan of tube screamers ( I can get close I guess with my TC El MojoMojo), but at price 20 I thought Id remind myself what its all about..., Ill probably try it with the Mojo and others to get a little edge, Ill see..., not much gain just tone sculptin, it did sound very good on an in the blues channel with a strat juust slightly breakin..., Cheers, K : )
Hi Brian thanks for doing this I love your bread board.
East River Od is supposedly based off of the 808. Super transparent and like $40 cheaper 👍
Nice video as always. But the world is full of this stuff. (My car definitely runs better after I wash it.) the way we see, taste, hear the world is hugely wrapped up in experience, nostalgia, fashion, etc etc. A slight difference in output impedance is not really audible of course, but the way you feel about a piece for gear is valid for creative musicians. OTOH, if a musician is caught up in constant gear swapping they need to be told this stuff so they can get on and jam!
I LOVE those funny quick comments along the videos since that one "No wah pedal damaged in this video"! LOL everytime I read them! :D
There's not a lot of difference, but to my ear, with decent headphones, I can hear a bit more bottom end on the TS808 circuit. I've screwed around with SPICE programs (for nerds), and I can say, objectively, that there is a quantifiable difference, even if slight. Throw in part tolerances, and a lot of that goes up in the air. But more importantly, why does it matter if someone thinks they hear a difference or if someone doesn't? I swear that the 808 sounds a bit creamer, to my ear. And I've done enough research into the circuit to say that's that isn't an unfounded belief. Again, I completely agree that tolerances will probably have a greater effect on a TS styled overdrive then a few resistors, I mean, SRV famously went through tons of them to find the perfect pedal, if that isn't evidence enough. However, that doesn't mean people's anecdotal evidence is wrong either. They might just have better hearing for those special frequencies. I can say that I can't hear a massive difference between a green back and blue back, and jeez do I keep that opinion to myself, because people swear by blue backs. Also, I don't have a lot of experience in person with blue backs, so relying heavily on compressed UA-cam videos for information isn't exactly helpful either. To conclude, I do understand the point of the video, and I don't entirely disagree with it, I just believe that people will have there opinions, and just because you can't understand them, doesn't mean they are wrong. Keep up the good work Wampler!
It matters because people spend money based on what they believe is a design difference when it's a random result of the flawed manufacturing process that does not create all products alike. Then they spend time being wrong on the internet. I'm not paying my ISP for people to be wrong on my internet, goddammit!
And creamy isn't a word that is applicable to sound. You're thinking cheddar.
Oh you mean you switched pedal while I was looking at the comments? Sorry, I'm a FOH and studio engineer, worked in hi-fi, run 10 balanced armature drivers in-hears, and I didn't heard any difference. But clearly, Bob over here from Gearslutz is THE ultimate expert on the question. He run them BOTH on his pedal board for more mojo!!!
TS9DLX is one of my fav pedals. I dont use much distortion, these days for what I do. But the TS9DLX is a great boost pedal of sorts. Give you all the clarity with a little oomph to the front end of tube amp. ;-)
You gave me flashbacks from electrical engineering school and theory classes with them breadboards lol!
So now we know that Brian's ts808 breadboarded clone when moderately distorted sounds quite similar to Brian's ts9 breadboard clone when it's adjusted to sound similar. I've had the first versions of both and the differences are most apparent in the extremeties of the settings. I've been through a bunch of original ts9s and really disliked them. I have 4 orig Ts808s and I love them. Haven't tried the modern ones so they might be different but the originals really effect amps differently in my opinion. Of course, your mileage may vary. Would have been nice to hear the real pedals, and at different settings. Not dissing just disagreeing.
Keep drinking that kool aid, it's ok everyone must validate their decisions
Silvia Scolaro So you have had both originals and found them the same, or are you engaging in some self validation? I mostly play vintage Jazzmasters through a 64 super reverb. Been my go-to rig for 25 yrs. My experience says the 808 has more dynamic range and more harmonic bloom as a note decays than the TS9. The amp responds in a way that's more to my liking. My opinion is based on many hours of real world use, not on what someone else tells me to hear.
I'd recommend you watch the entire video. The real difference between TS9 and TS808 is literally 2 resistors at the end of the circuit, which don't affect the tone or gain of the circuit at all.
What does affect tone, as Brian explains in the video, are the tolerances between each component in the circuit, which from one unit to another (regardless of being TS808 or TS9) can vary between 5% to 20%, and that includes the potentiometers used for Gain, Tone and Volume controls.
Basically, what we're saying isn't that your ears are wrong, but that the concept of the difference in tone being between TS808 and TS9 is what's wrong. The actual difference is between each individual pedal, regardless of the model.
Nowadays, you see it much less, as precision components are more widely avaiable and cheaper, thus making such variation in tone unnoticeable.
@ C.P. Did you confirm this with a blind test? If not please do, because sometimes the diffrence is just in our heads (my own experience!). I have two DIY Pedals (TS9 and TS 808) and I deffinately heard a difference but as soon as I closed my eyse and did not know wich pedal was engaged the diffrence was gone.
Fabian's Tiny Workshop I'm talking about the original issues. They used to be everywhere for $40 bucks and there was no collector status. I've just kept the ones I liked. The 808s sounded the way I liked with my gear This was before all the internet pressure to have the right thing. I turned down a Klon for $300 around the same time. The Jazzmasters were because I liked them, again before they were cool. These pedals are part of a system and a small variation in one part can affect something else in a larger way. Think of how tiny increments in adjustments can change how a Tweed deluxe responds. Brian's test isn't a comparison of 2 original pedals with original parts and tolerances. It's a comparison of his two bread boards. Very interesting but not the last word.
... 02/8/2020: I like the warmer TS808 sound. Can people use the pedal in a solid-state amp and get close to the same sound?
I got my TS9 for free...and it sounds great.
Never used an 808...so i dont have anything to comare the TS9 to...
Glad i saw this before i spent money on an 808
What is the 'intended' then, from the designers?
Very cool video. No bullshit. Well done.
Loved my 808 used it for over20years.
Fantastic overdrive! The best!
Well...not sure how different the 90s TS9 reissues were... but I got one new in about '96, never really liked it... a few years ago I sent it to Analogman and got the basic 808/Brown mod, and it totally breathed life into a dry stale pedal...
I think people have a preconception about pedals based on how they look. It’s subconscious and we all do it.
Nice and direct, those guys on forums might start measuring the pots now XD
I have question about the 80s TS10 . I bought one for $25 back in the 80s and sold it lol. I was just wondering what what different from the TS9. And why are they way more expensive than the older one. Thanks for your Awesome videos 👍
interesting. good job.showing the circuit differences in a diagram would have made this more complete.suppose i will have to go and look it up
I wanted a real Tubescreamer, but I wasn't readdy to shill out $200+ for a new or used pedal. So I grabbed a used TS7 for 35 bucks. Has the exact same circuit as the TS9 so it sounds just as magical :)
I love the ts7 and the ts5 both!!
Excellent video! What make of Tele is that?
Well they both have a clicking sound when they are switched. The 808's clicking sound had more headroom and less transparency for sure.
As long as it's green, i'm ok.
I also have an ugly plastic box from the '90s called Ibanez ts5 soundtank, it sounds really nice and still works.
Brian! you're my number one!!!
Is that the reason (or one of...) people say that sometimes if you have two of the exact same pedals they can sound different?
Yes, it’s due to parts tolerance and drift.
So they're the exact same thing?
You're a legend!
I would love to learn to build pedals, and even guitars, but i'm not handy at all. I'm like Red Green when it comes to fixing stuff lol.
Thank you man, i bought a tube screamer clone with one switch that choose ts9 or ts808 and i didn't feelt any diference. I was thinking the switch is broken or i'm stupid! Now i'm happy
Same here. My clone has both and it doesn't really change enuff to notice.
So, I have an 808 and TS9 on my board. They absolutely sound different when put at equal settings. Now, that might be component tolerances, I have no damn clue. I just know mine absolutely sound different. I prefer the 808 to the TS9
Yes that would be tolerances mainly.
I have a 1973 fender fuzz wah pedal. It's an original too. It's got just enough gain to get me into distorto-ville.
Hey Brian! Serious question here. I was just gifted a Demon brand clone that switches between TS808 and TS9. Seriously big difference when you hit the switch. The 808 side is super dark and crunchy, where the TS9 side is pretty clean and clear in comparison. What do you think is going on there? The difference is far more notable than your breadboard version. Thanks!
Since Brian didn't make it back to your comment (understandable.. your commenting on a 2 year old video) Ill give it a shot. My best guess is that the pedal you have is not exactly 1 for 1 representation of a TS808 or a TS9. They probably took some creative liberties on the mid hump type circuit that is the tube screamer, and intentionally made the two channels sound different.
I’ve had this discussion/debate with other guitarists and techs for over 30 years. There can be an audible difference between a TS8 and a TS9 if the knobs are set identically. But the tone and drive knobs can be adjusted to make up the difference. Even with that in mind I still have my preference. The TS9 works better for me during solos in a gig setting. Might be psychological, but it does cut thru the mix a little better to me
I love my 90's ts9, but the best way to get the tone one wants is to practice more.
Slight variables to sell different models. Pots are often overlooked by most people when ever I rewire my basses or guitars I typically want as close to the set value of the pot as I can get. Aim for within 2-5% if not dead on but depending on where you get em you can't be too choosy
My ts9 sounds the best.... no one else's comes close.....why???
Cos my mother bought it for me26 yrs ago.
in reality anyone who has had one of these for a year or more probably has the best one for them because they have learned where to put the dials to sound good for them, and they have learned to play to the strengths of that particular pedal, because it is all they have played through!
my mother bought me a Rat, its the best Rat ive ever heard
Kengi Hepworth If my mom buys me anything, it’s the best
You have a cool mother
awww
So what you're saying is, things sound different when you use pot.
Through extensive research, I can confirm this theory.
he said use pot
Sounds like you were on of those guys swearing your TS808 is brighter or darker or brighter...
Me too. Pot makes a difference.
well it was the coke
Pot makes a difference, but caps man... caps will make ya fly!
I definitely prefer the TS9, because I got it for much cheaper than a TS808.
True 189 or 133 now on Amazon but the mini ts808 is good
I have been screaming at videos about this for years, even the stupid notion of comparing pedals by putting them at 12o’clock. It’s all randomness because of tolerance variability not to mention confirmation bias. I loved this video for busting that myth wide open at last. It makes the so called experts look like novices. Well done Brian.
Stephen Parry
It's amazing how many ppl have limited knowledge about the gear they're using. Basic electronics people! Tolerances change everything!
It didnt really bust anything. I heard clear difference in the last part. Is the 808 more expensive?
@@allankvist6741 you heard a clear difference because he said one was a TS9 and the other was an 808. It's the same pedals he used throughout the entire video but you only heard a difference when he told you there was one.
It makes the so called experts look like marketers, which is what they usually are
@@kill3r_b75 auch.
Well, it’s obviously the tone metal in the casing that makes the difference. Also, the vintage 808s used a different green lacquer, which vibrates at a smoother resonant frequency. That’s why they’re worth more.
Everyone knows tone metal is a myth! I have pseudoscience that backs it up! I even take 1/4 of the variables into account!
Curse you..I just got over the relic/tone scam.
I routed some f holes in mine and mounted the switch with adhesive. Really brings out the resonance of the pedal.
Not a true comparison unless both are tested in different hemispheres in a vaccum chamber during a full lunar eclipse.That's when the magic happens and the different circuitry really stands out.
If you add a Ferrari sticker everything works faster \m/
Based on how much I practice, I find that the TS9 sounds like shit most of the time.
I love the way you're paying ohmmage to these pedals.
They deserve it for joining the resistance
In other words, just buy the mini because it's cheapest :D
or buy the parts and make your own!
I heard that the mini has a “smaller sound stage”.
;)
The mini is pretty good!
And it looks pretty cool on a pedalboard actually.
Or buy the Behringer TS...under $30. Same circuit.
They all made a similar sound when placed on top of the amplification head, but the last one had a little less thud.
Lol
Lol blow me... that’s why you have knobs on amp and pedal to increase or decrease thud or whatever you’re dreaming about. In either pedal. Turn you’re knobs you knob.
Oh you mean the TS-JOE... (coffee cup) did have a nice resonance tho
Great video! Pedal Myth Busters! 👍🙂
Thank you so much for making this video. I've NEVER been able to tell THAT much of a difference in the TS808, TS9 and Maxon versions. I mean I could always hear just a tiny bit of difference when put into a super clean uncompressed amp, but never much. Even different TS9s sounded different to me though, so I thought i was just crazy. All my 'music friends' told me I was tone def. So the fact that this video exists, makes me feel much better.
Also, I love your pedals man. I have 3 so far :)
I had a guitarist who left my band because I used cheaper alternatives. He took the drummer with him too. still don't know what happened to them after that.
@@RockG.o.d They got 'married' & lived happily ever after!
@@DMSProduktions haha probably.
@@RockG.o.d ;oP