Totally agree with you on the steering! Besides the rev hang, and maybe tied to it, is the dead zone in the 1st CM of gas pedal ... The steering + rev hang + dead zone in the pedal make the 2nd gen feel less like a go kart. The only reason for me to upgrade from 1st to 2nd gen is really the added power and novelty aspect.
Also discovered you this month, you are probably going to be the top authority on this platform for advise and solutions to builds and problems, you know what you are talking about and you do good research.
I've watched these reviews and decided I'm keeping my 2016 BRZ that within two months of buying it new I put in an Edelbrock eForce supercharger and that bumped the HP up to 284 and made it a great track AND daily driver. Wider wheels and tires and adjusting camber for tracking made it nimble on the street. Changed out the exhaust for a 2" cat back so it sounds good. So definitely, I don't want the issues you've covered and again wonder why Toyota / Subaru doesn't significantly increase the HP because it just awakens the car into an awesome experience.
It's pretty obvious and great why they Keep it NA, and with emissions and it's size, it actually outputs a lot of hp/liter, one of the most powerful NA 4cyls on the market. All they could do really is bore it, which they did this generation; As well as maybe put in different cams but that would make it a worse daily, they know people are going to modify them anyway, the whole point of the second generation was to modernize everything, and make it better stock car for people who don't Modify, while simultaneously being a more reliable tuning a platform even if the 1st generation is a better bargain.
went down from a og m2 to the same neptune blue premium manual. So far everything is nice, one thing i missed from my old m2 was the exthaust and the thin steering wheels.
they added that because they knew people would be throwing bigger wheels and tires on so that way you can remove the tab and cut underneath it and put it back as if nothing happened lol
I too have the 22 gr86, my steering wheel is very responsive. When I first got it, I inspected little to big things in and on the car. Slight turn on my wheel and it moves to the direction right away without any delays. I have 5 cup holders… Heated seats, and feels way more roomy. Also not sure about other Toyota’s but I was able to place an order for mine.. I’ve had the car for 5 months now and I have 0 complaints.
As a true sports car driver, I don’t care about storage or cup holds. Honestly, really?!? Use the glove box for stuff. Maybe keep less crap in the car, might save weight. Lol. I have both, 2018 brz and GR86. The 86 is my touring. The brz is my 2490lbs track car. Rev hangs are in the 1gen too. But if you shift quicker, there are no hangs. I dig the new interior space. Tighter, more like a cockpit of a fighter jet. You are a new owner. You’ll get use to it. Oh, about details. Notice they did 3 windshield sprayers? That’s a cool touch. Why is it “what I hate” with owners of this car. It’s a $28,900+tax economical sports car and it works just fine for me, no issues.
I own a 22 BRZ and it’s funny that he mentions the very soft centering, because I installed an LED steering wheel on mines and it’s slightly off center, which I have to get re-aligned at the tie-rods since the bolt teeth weren’t perfect (way to overlook a “small” detail 😒); so it makes it more noticeable when the wheel is off-center, and I thought it was just that the bigger heavier wheel had more mass 🤣 (yeah it don’t make sense). The wheel should have more “weight” to center the rack like most cars.
I hate the ordering system. as well. I came from the 2016 FRS and I agree with most of these, I do like the ride quality better on the new one cause I daily it.
the digital gauges are a downgrade from the 1st gen's analogue. the 6spd manual also needs taller gearing, the thing revs way too high at 75-80mph, nevermind faster speeds (i wouldn't want the automatic either but at least it's geared taller..).
I'm no engineer but is there a way to fix the steering? Like could you computer tune it? Change bushings or any hardware to help it? What about a straight swap to the 2013-2021 eps module? Would that fit even fit
I heard that in other cars, changing the caster (positive caster) in the car's geometry/alignment often helps the steering to return back to centre, but who knows if that is the case for the GR86/BRZs...
what's crazy is I had a 2013 FR-S and it had engine problems so I had to get rid of it and get a 2017 Toyota 86. I swear the steering is vaguer and has less road feel than the 2013. Then again the suspension feels softer on brick roads too. I'm willing to believe the 2013 I bought used had some mods/upgrades on it's steering and suspension, it felt a little tighter and flatter in corners too. But if it was stock, then I don't know. Before I bought the 2017 I had a Toyota dealership confirm they can reprogram the EPS to tighten the steering. Then when they brought it in they said whoops this is one of the only models where you can't change any steering settings at all...
Yeah I’m in the reserved list waiting on premium 2022 or 2023 cuz there coming out already 86 in mt and black.dealership told me 5-7 months im on month 7 and they still said I ain’t close to getting mine yet
Question about your wheels. You said that you 9 X 17 35 offset is that positive or negative? I'm looking at some 9X18 +47 wheels and some guy was running them saying they where fine. Thoughts?
The Toyota 'ordering' process is horrible. About a month ago i checked in with a dealer where I had put in a request back in May. His update was "a year, give or take". ??? Give or take what? Fortunately, I placed an order for a BRZ in May (MGM LImited 6MT) and just received the VIN. Car is due at the dealer at the end of August. With the suspension differences between the GR86 and BRZ I think the BRZ may be the better choice for me. But what was Subaru thinking with the front license plate bracket? Keep the videos coming.
Thankfully i don't plan to daily mine. Strictly for the twistys (if it ever arrives lol) . Sold my M2 comp and ordered a special edition gr86 and picked up an 18 Fiesta ST for my daily.
What a wild change up. Was the M2C your previous daily? What influenced the change? Currently still deciding between M2C vs 86/miata and a second car. (Coming from a m235i)
Nah. I had a Forte GT manual i that was my daily. But missed having a hatchback fun daily and i dont care much for sedans. M2 is/was incredible but it was actually slightly larger than i like to drive. I love small cars but still wanted a rwd. In in daily heaven with the Fiesta ST i have more fun with it than probably any car so i expect the 86 to be even better. Small cars, manuals, under 3k lbs is my wheelhouse.
@@danny2607 Interesting. That’s the way I’ve been trending as well. On the BMW end, much more refinement and gobs of torque and exhaust sound. However, way too easy to always hit the speed limit and has higher limits than the street allows. And much heavier. Toyubaru/Miata - much less refinement. Limited space. Just enough torque, but no extra. Lightweight, great handling, fun to drive around the speed limits Hard decision imo
Coming out of a 2019 civic base I felt like the steering was a downgrade. I was so excited to feel this amazing steering all the reviewers were raving about and when I got in it it reminded me of the steering on my 2000 Toyota Corolla
Great video I agree .... steering feeling and initial turning on the 2021 car is much better than my 2022 BRZ. Anyone got any new ideas (other than the comments below)on how to improve these issues?
I still have a hard time choosing between the first gen or 350z hr.... not only the fa20 is gutless, the reliability seem to be a hit or miss, wish i could afford the second gen
PLEASE get Toyota/Subaru to release a Corrective Action on the RTV silicone clogging up the oil pickup tube strainer. There is way too much RTV silicone being applied from the factory and pieces are breaking off and clogging up the oil pickup tube strainer enough to damage engines. PLEASE get Toyota/Subaru corporate to fix this issue and use simple gaskets!!
toyotas allocation system is garbage, i had to call everywhere looking for a premium. finally found one in Missouri and drove it back to vegas. took 3.5 months
Lol, it doesn't matter what you move to from an Elise, nothing will be close to the responsiveness of that car's manual steering rack. Compared to most modern electronic power steering cars, the GR86/BRZ isn't bad at all.
Its august and apart from airports there are still places that require you to wear masks? Anyways, good video. This made me decide to try and buy a supra over this car.
Do you think these problems can be fixed? What I had in mind was: Supercharger, Lighter flywheel/clutch, cold air intake to help with revhang and throttle response upgraded coilovers for better ride replace clutch spring and replace shifter with 30% shorter throw for better shift changes there's nothing I can do about the steering maybe get a new wheel and see how that goes. was also considering getting some alcantara interior done later on Are any of these dealbreakers to you when using the GR86? I feel like it's an amazing value for what you get
@@jubbalandcars Thanks man, you're right it's a great car. Especially for the money and if you're looking for japanese made, rwd lsd manual this is one of the best options imo up there with the nissan Z
I don’t understand the allocation process I went to a dealership n ordered a base six spd raven black gr in January n it took thirty five days to get here from Japan for just a few thousand above the msrp pre markups
have one, love mine. I've switched over from Mustangs. I went with base. why. The seats in the Premium is a maintenance nightmare, the Alcantara looks good until it starts to wear. The duck taill rear spoiler is over the top. The wheels on the base have such a nicer look. As far as sound goes, lol a bunch of youngsters trying to get sound out of a boxer straight four, turning into a either a giant bee sound or a nasty fart can. Leave the car alone, and enjoy it as it is. putting over priced exhuasts on these is a money pit attempting to get a sound that fails on all grounds. A stock base is the way to go. Automatic as well. My last Mustang was a 6 speed manual. Forget it, get stuck in traffic and the enjoyment turns into an annoying place to be. Really less than a half second difference in a car that dose 6 seconds 0 to 60 isn't worth it. Most don't even know how to properly shift to squeeze out the half second difference. The GR 86 is a really nice looking car, that needs to be forgiven and appreciated for what it is. Respect it and enjoy it. If you want more performance, speed, sound don't get one, go buy a Porsche or a Jaguar F type. I split the difference with the dealership on the 5 grand mark up, fees tax, interest, and other over priced items like window tint, pinstripes, Matt's ate up half my down payment. sucks, it is what it is. From what you said about the car, sounds like you need to sell it and get happy. Not good to pay this much for a vehicle and be this unhappy.
Totally agree with you on the steering! Besides the rev hang, and maybe tied to it, is the dead zone in the 1st CM of gas pedal ... The steering + rev hang + dead zone in the pedal make the 2nd gen feel less like a go kart. The only reason for me to upgrade from 1st to 2nd gen is really the added power and novelty aspect.
Definitely less of a go kart, well said. For me I’ve had the old car so long I want a change but if I had infinite garage space and moneys I’d keep it
Also discovered you this month, you are probably going to be the top authority on this platform for advise and solutions to builds and problems, you know what you are talking about and you do good research.
Thanks for watching and for your support!
Top authority? 🤣
@@juelz4516 yup, he has the most experience living with the platform out of any youtu e I've seen so far.
I've watched these reviews and decided I'm keeping my 2016 BRZ that within two months of buying it new I put in an Edelbrock eForce supercharger and that bumped the HP up to 284 and made it a great track AND daily driver.
Wider wheels and tires and adjusting camber for tracking made it nimble on the street. Changed out the exhaust for a 2" cat back so it sounds good.
So definitely, I don't want the issues you've covered and again wonder why Toyota / Subaru doesn't significantly increase the HP because it just awakens the car into an awesome experience.
It's pretty obvious and great why they Keep it NA, and with emissions and it's size, it actually outputs a lot of hp/liter, one of the most powerful NA 4cyls on the market. All they could do really is bore it, which they did this generation; As well as maybe put in different cams but that would make it a worse daily, they know people are going to modify them anyway, the whole point of the second generation was to modernize everything, and make it better stock car for people who don't Modify, while simultaneously being a more reliable tuning a platform even if the 1st generation is a better bargain.
went down from a og m2 to the same neptune blue premium manual. So far everything is nice, one thing i missed from my old m2 was the exthaust and the thin steering wheels.
Besides the power do you miss much? Which one feels better to drive?
Hopefully your car doesn’t suffer from silicone getting in the oil pickup tube
Crossing my fingers
they added that because they knew people would be throwing bigger wheels and tires on so that way you can remove the tab and cut underneath it and put it back as if nothing happened lol
I too have the 22 gr86, my steering wheel is very responsive. When I first got it, I inspected little to big things in and on the car. Slight turn on my wheel and it moves to the direction right away without any delays. I have 5 cup holders… Heated seats, and feels way more roomy. Also not sure about other Toyota’s but I was able to place an order for mine.. I’ve had the car for 5 months now and I have 0 complaints.
How do you have 5 cupholders? Seems like there is only 4 .
@@saulespino2510 I honestly don’t know why but I have 5 total…
@@sunshininghoseok4662 can you tell us where you have 5 because I only see 2 on the mid console and 2 on the doors.
@@stephkerry I have a third in the middle console right above the seat heater switches.
I have the premium model as well
As a true sports car driver, I don’t care about storage or cup holds. Honestly, really?!? Use the glove box for stuff. Maybe keep less crap in the car, might save weight. Lol. I have both, 2018 brz and GR86. The 86 is my touring. The brz is my 2490lbs track car. Rev hangs are in the 1gen too. But if you shift quicker, there are no hangs. I dig the new interior space. Tighter, more like a cockpit of a fighter jet. You are a new owner. You’ll get use to it. Oh, about details. Notice they did 3 windshield sprayers? That’s a cool touch. Why is it “what I hate” with owners of this car. It’s a $28,900+tax economical sports car and it works just fine for me, no issues.
I own a 22 BRZ and it’s funny that he mentions the very soft centering, because I installed an LED steering wheel on mines and it’s slightly off center, which I have to get re-aligned at the tie-rods since the bolt teeth weren’t perfect (way to overlook a “small” detail 😒); so it makes it more noticeable when the wheel is off-center, and I thought it was just that the bigger heavier wheel had more mass 🤣 (yeah it don’t make sense). The wheel should have more “weight” to center the rack like most cars.
I hate the ordering system. as well. I came from the 2016 FRS and I agree with most of these, I do like the ride quality better on the new one cause I daily it.
the digital gauges are a downgrade from the 1st gen's analogue. the 6spd manual also needs taller gearing, the thing revs way too high at 75-80mph, nevermind faster speeds (i wouldn't want the automatic either but at least it's geared taller..).
I'm no engineer but is there a way to fix the steering? Like could you computer tune it? Change bushings or any hardware to help it? What about a straight swap to the 2013-2021 eps module? Would that fit even fit
I heard that in other cars, changing the caster (positive caster) in the car's geometry/alignment often helps the steering to return back to centre, but who knows if that is the case for the GR86/BRZs...
what's crazy is I had a 2013 FR-S and it had engine problems so I had to get rid of it and get a 2017 Toyota 86. I swear the steering is vaguer and has less road feel than the 2013. Then again the suspension feels softer on brick roads too. I'm willing to believe the 2013 I bought used had some mods/upgrades on it's steering and suspension, it felt a little tighter and flatter in corners too. But if it was stock, then I don't know.
Before I bought the 2017 I had a Toyota dealership confirm they can reprogram the EPS to tighten the steering. Then when they brought it in they said whoops this is one of the only models where you can't change any steering settings at all...
@@JanG859 so I had both a 2013 and 2017 one dire try after the other, tbh I didn't notice a difference
Yeah I’m in the reserved list waiting on premium 2022 or 2023 cuz there coming out already 86 in mt and black.dealership told me 5-7 months im on month 7 and they still said I ain’t close to getting mine yet
Interesting. Multiple people say they have no rubbing with 17x9 +35 and 18x8.5 +40. Hmmm.
Currently, trying to get one too... What a nightmare, this Toyota allocation system is 🗑️🗑️... Also ulnar nerve 🤣🤣🤣🤣
🤓
Question about your wheels. You said that you 9 X 17 35 offset is that positive or negative? I'm looking at some 9X18 +47 wheels and some guy was running them saying they where fine. Thoughts?
The Toyota 'ordering' process is horrible. About a month ago i checked in with a dealer where I had put in a request back in May.
His update was "a year, give or take". ??? Give or take what?
Fortunately, I placed an order for a BRZ in May (MGM LImited 6MT) and just received the VIN. Car is due at the dealer at the end of August.
With the suspension differences between the GR86 and BRZ I think the BRZ may be the better choice for me.
But what was Subaru thinking with the front license plate bracket?
Keep the videos coming.
Congrats!
Great video. Have you tried Perrin Steering Rack Lockdown? I would like to hear your thoughts.
Thankfully i don't plan to daily mine. Strictly for the twistys (if it ever arrives lol) . Sold my M2 comp and ordered a special edition gr86 and picked up an 18 Fiesta ST for my daily.
What a wild change up.
Was the M2C your previous daily?
What influenced the change?
Currently still deciding between M2C vs 86/miata and a second car.
(Coming from a m235i)
Nah. I had a Forte GT manual i that was my daily. But missed having a hatchback fun daily and i dont care much for sedans. M2 is/was incredible but it was actually slightly larger than i like to drive. I love small cars but still wanted a rwd. In in daily heaven with the Fiesta ST i have more fun with it than probably any car so i expect the 86 to be even better. Small cars, manuals, under 3k lbs is my wheelhouse.
@@danny2607 Interesting.
That’s the way I’ve been trending as well.
On the BMW end, much more refinement and gobs of torque and exhaust sound.
However, way too easy to always hit the speed limit and has higher limits than the street allows. And much heavier.
Toyubaru/Miata - much less refinement. Limited space. Just enough torque, but no extra. Lightweight, great handling, fun to drive around the speed limits
Hard decision imo
Is the steering issue exclusive with the GR86 or does the new BRZ have it too?
Both have the issue. I talk about the steering in my first 2022 BRZ review
Coming out of a 2019 civic base I felt like the steering was a downgrade. I was so excited to feel this amazing steering all the reviewers were raving about and when I got in it it reminded me of the steering on my 2000 Toyota Corolla
Great video I agree .... steering feeling and initial turning on the 2021 car is much better than my 2022 BRZ. Anyone got any new ideas (other than the comments below)on how to improve these issues?
I still have a hard time choosing between the first gen or 350z hr.... not only the fa20 is gutless, the reliability seem to be a hit or miss, wish i could afford the second gen
350z is more similar to American muscle cars than the 86 twins
6:57 iirc it has something to do with the law? I'm not sure but it seems like that piece is added so the tire width is < than wheel arc
PLEASE get Toyota/Subaru to release a Corrective Action on the RTV silicone clogging up the oil pickup tube strainer. There is way too much RTV silicone being applied from the factory and pieces are breaking off and clogging up the oil pickup tube strainer enough to damage engines. PLEASE get Toyota/Subaru corporate to fix this issue and use simple gaskets!!
toyotas allocation system is garbage, i had to call everywhere looking for a premium. finally found one in Missouri and drove it back to vegas. took 3.5 months
Kudos on being willing to go all the way out to Missouri! Even SLC Utah was a stretch for me
I'm going from an Elise to a GR86. It sounds like I'm really going to miss the responsiveness and accuracy of my last car.
Elise is a completely different level of raw, nimble, and light than the GR86. Latter is much better daily or dual purpose however
Lol, it doesn't matter what you move to from an Elise, nothing will be close to the responsiveness of that car's manual steering rack. Compared to most modern electronic power steering cars, the GR86/BRZ isn't bad at all.
Its august and apart from airports there are still places that require you to wear masks?
Anyways, good video. This made me decide to try and buy a supra over this car.
Dang I would’ve kept the 1st gen for sure.
I have both right now but I'll be getting rid of gen 1 since I've owned it for over 9 years now
@@jubbalandcars How much are you going to sell your 1st gen for?
I want to buy this car Soo bad but not dealing with the rtv issue big recall coming
Is the cabin noise worse than the fr-s? quieter or the same? I've heard mixed stories.
Significantly quieter in new GR86 compared to FRS
@@jubbalandcars i wonder how much of that is the window seals. i recently replaced mine (also a 13) and the difference was stark
Do you think these problems can be fixed? What I had in mind was:
Supercharger, Lighter flywheel/clutch, cold air intake to help with revhang and throttle response
upgraded coilovers for better ride
replace clutch spring and replace shifter with 30% shorter throw for better shift changes
there's nothing I can do about the steering maybe get a new wheel and see how that goes.
was also considering getting some alcantara interior done later on
Are any of these dealbreakers to you when using the GR86? I feel like it's an amazing value for what you get
None are dealbreakers. Still a great car
@@jubbalandcars Thanks man, you're right it's a great car. Especially for the money and if you're looking for japanese made, rwd lsd manual this is one of the best options imo up there with the nissan Z
Your 86 doesn’t have the 5th cup holder? I have the premium model and there is a 5th holder below the seat warmer buttons
I wonder if that’s based on manual vs automatic
How about excessive RTV on the oil pan, it’s not bothering you?
I had no issues with my first gen. It’s a problem but statistically unlikely to cause major issues
My gr86 is very impressive. I want more torque. The horsepower is fine, it needs it equally or more,,,.
Didn't you test drive it before you bought it?
No
I don’t understand the allocation process I went to a dealership n ordered a base six spd raven black gr in January n it took thirty five days to get here from Japan for just a few thousand above the msrp pre markups
People are talking about it
have one, love mine. I've switched over from Mustangs.
I went with base. why. The seats in the Premium is a maintenance nightmare, the Alcantara looks good until it starts to wear. The duck taill rear spoiler is over the top. The wheels on the base have such a nicer look. As far as sound goes, lol a bunch of youngsters trying to get sound out of a boxer straight four, turning into a either a giant bee sound or a nasty fart can. Leave the car alone, and enjoy it as it is. putting over priced exhuasts on these is a money pit attempting to get a sound that fails on all grounds. A stock base is the way to go. Automatic as well. My last Mustang was a 6 speed manual. Forget it, get stuck in traffic and the enjoyment turns into an annoying place to be. Really less than a half second difference in a car that dose 6 seconds 0 to 60 isn't worth it. Most don't even know how to properly shift to squeeze out the half second difference. The GR 86 is a really nice looking car, that needs to be forgiven and appreciated for what it is. Respect it and enjoy it. If you want more performance, speed, sound don't get one, go buy a Porsche or a Jaguar F type. I split the difference with the dealership on the 5 grand mark up, fees tax, interest, and other over priced items like window tint, pinstripes, Matt's ate up half my down payment. sucks, it is what it is.
From what you said about the car, sounds like you need to sell it and get happy. Not good to pay this much for a vehicle and be this unhappy.
Nah I like the car. And buying this car in automatic is like going to a steakhouse and ordering a salad.
Complaint about space in a coupe 😔
negative camber
Will be doing camber bolts after my first track day. Want to see how this handles stock first at the limit