Overall gen 2 is a much better daily. But there are significant issues with it that people don’t talk about compared to gen 1. I see so many reviewers say this has amazing steering on the same level as Porsche. Completely false. Throttle response and modulation is worse than first gen. Rawness traded for polish and comfort. It’s a mixed bag. Don’t just believe the hype. Understand what kind of trade offs you’re making between the two gen.
RCR did a review on the 86 recently and the user that lent them the car installed an ECU mod that allows for full throttle access when pressing the pedal. He said that mod pretty much fixed the issue youre referring to
Shoutout to you, my fellow Vegas 86 owner. I’ve owned a ‘17 86 and currently have a ‘13 FR-S. The 86 was manual and the FR-S is automatic. I’ve always tried to dissuade people from seeing these cars as “entry level” because they could be your one and only car until it dies and give you fun at any time. The torque dip is seriously overplayed, and not once has it crept in my head, stock or not. The problem is we live in a time where everything is a dick measuring contest, and people don’t want you to be happy with less. I plan on keeping this car as long as I can, because it’s principles and origins fit in with my beliefs, and I don’t think anyone should be ashamed for wanting that. Thank you for making this video and saying it how it is. It’s truly appreciated.
It has NO torque. Your regular Honda Odyssey will overtake it on the road, in-gear. The first gen 86/BRZ was the slowest ‘sportscar’ on the road, with no rear grip on those primacy tyres, and tendency just to oversteer into the next ditch or hedge on real B roads when it’s wet. It can perform nice powerslides if you have an open airfield or large piece of tarmac, but on the road? These things are the ultimate ricer’s wet dream. All shout and no go. Plus that same low grade plastic interior that you get from old chinese cars. My goodness. Even Toyota Corollas are miles better. Sorry if you find this offensive, but it is what it is. That’s why they tweaked, polished, and improved the second gen. The second gen is better. Try one.
I appreciate your comment my guy. Can you explain more about the “its principles and origins fit in with my beliefs..”? I’m getting a GR 86 in MT and its the 10th Anniversary Edition. Itll get here this January! Want to know before I flip the kill switch. Also, just want to learn more about it, and understand that being fast in a straight line isn’t everything you need.
Definitely agree with on all your points. Torque dip on the 1st gen doesn’t bother me since I’ve always driven sub 200hp cars. The rawness of the driving experience especially in spirited runs in the canyons is enticing. What sold me on the 1st gen was the handling capabilities, the looks, the homage it represented, and the seating position.
LOL the 1st gen is an awful ricer car. No power, no torque, looks only a juvenile can drool of, interior with cheap arse recycled plastics (at least it feels like it), and it oversteers far too easily in real world traffic, especially on winding b-roads in the rain. Basically a slow, cheaply made, dangerous ricer car.
Ended up grabbing a brand new 2019 86 GT for my first car at the tail end of 2019, and I still love it. Honestly, I was all-in for having something that could essentially teach me to become a better driver, and this was before 2nd gen was a thing. I just love the thing; the twin community is boundless, everyone has been super helpful, everything about the platform is versatile and "fun", where I could have just settled for a used Camry or something more "normal" with better gas mileage. Almost 3 years later, I'm sitting on a custom Flexfuel tune, the car's peppy and responsive, and I love driving it. The torque dip's done, there's nothing that feels "off" about the power band, it's everything I ever wanted. When 2nd gen was announced, I was in the club of "I hate the way it looks, but I appreciate the power boost", but over time, I've had people jeering at me because I won't trade mine in for one. Here's my stance. Why should I choose to trade in a perfectly capable vehicle, built to my own specifications, that I still smile every single time I look back at it? I'm honestly still having trouble with thoughts that I can't even believe that this is MY car, and am still dumbfounded that I've come this far, after getting my license so late (family issues, hard to explain). But my question is...why should I trade in something that I still love, when I'm pretty much all-in on making this what I want it to be? It's not like they're on the registration, they have no say. As a DIYer, I like that I'm looking into getting an SC someday to ramp the power, but for now, this is the perfect daily for my ideal driving scenario, and it's not like I'm "tolerating" it when I enjoy every second of driving it. Would I like more power? Absolutely, I love what I'm seeing from the FA24. But I'm dedicating myself to restoring my dad's car first.
I tested the ‘22 BRZ back to back with my early 86 on the same PS4 tires, and was similarly surprised that none of the early reviews picked up on the changes to the steering. Love the heft and extra communication of gen 1. In regard to road noise, I’d be interested to see a decibel test of the two cars on the same rubber. I noticed a significant leap in noise when I ditched the stock primacies for DS4. Appreciate the review from an owner of both cars
Thanks for the honest review. I have also owned my 13 FR-S for over nine years and enjoyed every moment even with the cricket still alive and well. The FR-S is so balanced and the steering feel is astonishing for a "budget" sports car. I own a 997.2 and sometimes I struggle to choose which car to drive - I am being completely honest here. I am also privileged to be associated with the automotive press and have many chances to test drive new cars. The FR-S is by far one of the best steering feel car I know. Most of the new cars now-a-day lack steering feel except for the very expensive sports cars. That said, my FR-S is a AT and I always wanted to go back to MT before everything is electrified. So I have been contemplating on getting a new daily (Supra? Z? MX-5? Type R? Used Boxster/Cayman?). When I am ready to pull the trigger I will have a very difficult time parting with the FR-S. Maybe I will find some space to keep it...
I went from my 2013 FR-S (had it for 10 years) to a 2022 Supra 3.0. No regrets at all. I'd have liked to have kept the FR-S - just because I absolutely loved the car - but had no space for it.
Wow finally a reviewer that knows the audience and isn't just hyping up their new car. I've got 2023 brz on order. Glad you still came to the conclusion that the new gen is better (even if it's overrated)
I have been a proud owner of the first gen FRS, I’m planning on keeping and modding it to my liking in coming years instead of upgrading to the new gen. The power alone did not persuade me enough for the upgrade
Lol you mean you have not enough power in your first gen FRS. A 1.4 TSI VW Golf is faster than that car, and with that awful OEM michelin primacy tyres, slower in the bends as well. LOL.
It’s shocking how many people aren’t talking about the big steering difference, really interesting to hear your thoughts on it. I think a ranking/tier list video would be super interesting ranking many of the popular enthusiast cars when it came to steering.
I recently picked up a 2020 Brz limited performance package and I love it. I really wanted a 2nd gen but I couldn’t find anyone locally that had one and if there was one, it was above MSRP. Mine has only has 4K miles. I see how an upgrade from a 2013-2016 frs/gt/Brz is a big upgrade but I don’t see it as a huge improvement coming from a 2020. You get a lot of the same features on a 2020 like on a 2022. Except the extra mid power. That’s really nice.
Thanks for making this video! Just bought a 2016 FRS with 12,000 miles and have been beating myself up about not waiting to get a GR86 for $4k more. Since the steering is my absolute favorite part of the FRS, and more important to me than power, i feel better about my decision. 😄
Love the honesty here. I felt the same way in my back to back driving experience. I also felt the torque dip still exists in the new engine albeit much less noticeable than the first gen. Visually, I love the new GR86. Shifter feel is a huge improvement as well. Great job on this!
I totally agree with your assessment of the difference between the two generations. I just sold my 2013 FRS Manual (43k miles) since my new GR86 is on the way. When I test drove the GR86, the steering is much more numb, but I was surprised how effortless the turns were. I live in WV where there is not a straight road anywhere and the GR86 would take turns so easily, I was constantly braking to keep from rear ending the car in front of me. Raw is a great description for the FRS. Use two hands and go hard. Most fun car I have ever driven (more smiles per mile). I had the FRS longer than any other car. I know I will miss it. I am anxious to get the GR86 and upgrade. My wife will appreciate she can talk to me in the new car (the FRS was not quiet). Great review.
Congrats on the new gen GR, I love that Neptune Blue! Had my 2020 86 for two years, Have been driving my new 22 GR86 Premium for almost three weeks and I have to disagree with opinion on the steering. I think compared to the 2020 the steering is much more precise. On my 2020 I overcame the torque dip by adding a 5k supercharger which gave me 278HP. So far I am not sure I plan to do that should a bolt on kit come out for the 2nd gen as I am very pleased with it right out of the box. Ran 2020 through the NC mountain runs (dragons tail, Moonshiner runs, Cherohala etc..etc) multiple times, and I look forward to taking the new GR up this October, I suspect with the newly sport tuned suspension and strengthened frame with much less body roll will make a big difference.
I have a gt86 2012 ; changed gear and diff oil ; car feels better changing gears. Also had a HKS supercharger fitted; changed suspension too; added strut braces front and rear, upgraded wheels wider 18”, changed exhaust system too. Car feels really good with these changes.
My issue with the rear end of the 2nd gen is that it doesn't look very distinct compared to the first gen. You'd think you're behind a Buick Regal or an Accord Coupe. It's not a bad design by any means. It's still a way better looking car than 90% of new cars that come out nowadays. No hideous plastic trim like the WRX, no disgusting style on an economy body like the Elantra N. It's just a classic sports car design through and through.
As someone who traded in the gen 1 for the gen 2. Everything he says is very true, it depends on what your preferences are, but i am looking forward to the amount of aftermarketsupport gen2 will be getting and seeing how that will do .
I must be to use to trucks, I’ve driven type r’s, wrx’s, s2000, Camaro ss 1le, c7 vettes. The Gr86 is well in that range of responsiveness if the prior gen is better I’ll take the added comfort over the responsiveness. I do think the power is lacking but I’m use to v-8s and you can’t beat that with a normal 4. Overall I like my gr86 but don’t hyper focus on some of the nit picking, it’s a entry level sport coupe not a 50-60k car. Looks are a ten to me, I’ve been waiting on a car as nice looking as a s2000 that’s affordable and this is it 100 percent. The value of this car is the best I’ve owned so far.
Same story here. Owned (and loved) and FR-S for 9 years and now in a GR86. I have to disagree. The GR86 is superior in all ways. Everything has been improved even the steering. The only thing I would argue is that the GR-86 steering is much more serious, not playful like the FR-S. But that is still an improvement at higher speeds.
I don't remember the steering enough to say it's vastly different in any way. Fuel economy is worse and the tail lights are ugly. The rest of the car is an upgrade across the board.
Great review!! I've just traded my long term GT86 for a new GR86 and I would say your comments are pretty accurate. I loved my GT and would never have sold it except I somehow managed to get to the top of a very long waiting list here in the UK. My first impression of the GR is that it's way more "daily driver" friendly. It's quieter and the extra torque makes driving it through traffic far less frantic. I haven't really noticed the steering issue that you mentioned but I haven't tracked it yet. On UK twisty roads, which seem to be a lot more severe than most of your US roads, the new GR is a joy!! You still have to use the gears optimally but the extra power has bought an even wider grin to my face and the Pilot 4's feel way more assured whilst still allowing a little lateral movement. I agree that the performance gap between the two cars is closer than most reviewers have mentioned but I also think that it will be far easier to get into trouble in the GR if you are at the limit. In summary the GR isn't a massive upgrade it's more of an incremental improvement of the old car.
I really appreciate the perspective here. I had a 2013 brz and then a 2017 brz. Did a stage 1 tune on the 2017. Sold the 2017 in favor of a 2022 civic Si for its better day-to-day usability. Anticipate I’ll buy a new brz or gr86 again (after my younger daughter gets to driving age and I don’t have to haul a field hockey bag around). Haven’t driven a new brz yet, but believe in the value of “raw”. I used to love going back and forth from the 2017 brz and my 2013 boxster s. The brz gives up so much performance to the Porsche, but it’s scrappy and flingable character was fulfilling. I hope the nuances of the new brz don’t disappoint me…..I know the fundamentals of the gen 2 are a major step forward, but this gentleman makes excellent points.
Very good video. Spoken very clearly and directly. Reminds me a lot of TheTopher and Tedward (which is a good thing). Raised some points that I wasn't aware of. My '23 Netpune Blue Premium is arriving in a couple days and I'm struggling to contain my excitement. Fortunately, I won't be too disappointed by the new one at all because I'm coming from a CVT Impreza lol.
I have a 17 860. It’s legit all the car I’ll ever need. I don’t need power numbers, I want connection. This car gives more connection than most in this era. When you invest in these properly you get Porsche like handling for a fraction of the money. Regarding the sound I think that’s subjective. I like the sound personally. I’ll grow with this car and I’m confident I will be continually happy with it. 🤙🏻
I personally like the body style of the 2013 FRS. its one of the reasons I bought it. But the steering is something I don't hear a lot of people talking about.
I like this review a lot. I think it really explains that it's still the same car, and even though the torque topic probably really is feelable - the old one is still a great car and a lot of reviews kind of just end up bashing the old version and praising the new one. And it's great this video emphasizes a lot some thing which are really better on the one one - like the steering wheel feel. So the new one is better, but both are great it seems
I accidentally removed your other comment about engine noise when trying to remove my initial response to it. The fake engine noise is quite sibilant to my ears, I like it better without it. Also now that I've tracked the car I don't find it problematic at all. My friend disabled his and complains it's too quiet on track such that he couldn't shift properly so he added it back.
@@jubbalandcars Yes, that's also what I was thinking - when using for the track, it's probably better with the active sound. I still haven't got my GR86, but from what I've heard in sound in videos I've had the impression overall that it's nicer with the active sound. It's not the manufacturers fault though, it's the restrictions that the governments put for the sound of the cars... But in this case active sound is meant to just make the real car noise louder, I personally would have probably preferred if they had used a custom sound in the active noise, rather than trying to reproduce the authentic sound of this car, or if they gave an option to choose the sound you like... A custom exhaust sounds the coolest, but in a way with the active sound I think it's a good advantage, that the noise from outside can be lower and on lower revs the car is more silent and only gets to show off on higher rev's - you can't have these without active sound...
I have a 2017 brz with performance package and I can tell you for sure the responsiveness and shifter improved dramatically when I installed a carbon fiber driveshaft. Specially down shifting.
Completely agree with you! I own a 2014 BRZ and a 2022 BRZ and one of the most disappointing point in the new BRZ is the steering feel and the lack of raw feel that you had in the first version... Also I didn't mind having to go high in RPM to find power and actually I find that enjoyable... I followed all the reviews and bought the new version without having the opportunity to test drive it and find myself a bit disappointed...Everybody seems so happy with the comfort, the screens etc ... If I wanted a comfortable car with screens I would buy myself a Mercedes not a BRZ...
This was very enlightening to have the comparison between both as I've been waiting for years to get my finances together and recently put a deposit down on the new one after having a few test drives with the old one over the years. I'm mainly sold on the new one because it's quieter, 100% mine from day one, the notchy gear shifts and better air con 😅.
Finally, someone that talks about the steering feel and other aspects of the car other than power. I own a first gen, 2018 86 gt 6 speed manual and it has fantastic steering feel, pretty quick steering as well, comparable to my e46 m3 and in my opinion better than my 335i I daily. In my opinion the first gen gives me vibs of the e30 m3: light weight, same power, simple and just pure and raw, but modern, as you eloquently stated. I have not had a chance to drive the gr86, but I have read that the steering ratio is also slightly slower. I will test drive it but if I do not like it then I will just make some compromises and spring for the a90 Supra 6 speed, as some of my BMW friends that also own it said it is the best steering and driving modern BMW, Toyota has built from BMW. Thanks again for the great and honest review.
I heard Supra steering wasn’t that great but I haven’t tried it myself. Funny you compare FRS/86 to E30. I also compare it to older BMWs, specifically E36. Very similar character although obviously E36 had better steering feel since hydraulic BMW during their peak
I own an MY14 86 GTS with a lot of sensible mods - full TRD suspension, Stage 2+ tune with headers and full exhaust, modded clutch and shifter springs etc the list goes on. Drove the new BRZ and I am no longer lusting after the new model. sure the engine is better but my modded 86 isn't that far behind. I was struggling to put my finger on why the new gen didn't knock my socks off and your vid helped. the new one isn't as raw and it's stepping into the more comfy and "samey" class as everything else on the road. just cos the new one is out it doesn't turn the old one from a great car to a shitbox over night.
I have the toyota gt86 trd limited edition and I love it and I beat so many fast cars in the corner backroads is crazy how ppl only talk about car that go fast in straight line wish there good but handles are good too
Definitely agree about the analog gauges, there's just nothing quite like watching that needle move. As for the rear, I think the main reason people are disappointed with the rear is that the 1st gen rear looked so damn good. I'm still surprised at how good it is everytime I see one.
Excellent review. Love hearing from someone with so much experience with both versions. I have the 2022 brz. Did the helper spring delete on the clutch and it's better. But I might just change out the clutch at some point. The brz is my daily so who knows what I do in the end. Thanks.
The analog feel is true and I've only test drove first Gen brz and I currently own a GR86. To each of there own but the reason why I chose a gr86 is not because of the commercials nor the reviews but how I witnessed a 22 BRZ in autocross and completely astonished how it performed against more expensive built vehicles like an E85 Hawkeye on radials while the BRZ has wheels, tires, coilovers and a muffler delete. Times speak for itself and the GR86 and 22 BRZ are definitely faster but let's just be thankful both existed especially since first gens sold good which made the second gen to have improvements for the better or less.
I believe lotus was able to get the best steering feel by NOT using any power steering assist of any type, so it’s cars were basically running with old school manual steering which allows the driver to feel everything the front wheels/steering wheels are doing, resulting in the driver having much more confidence in his driving skills.
I’ve owned a 2013 FRS and a 2024 GR86. The only thing that’s worse in the new one is the steering, just doesn’t feel as good as the old one. Everything is a significant upgrade.
My take is kouki or face listed 1st gen 86 stock or lightly modiefied. You get the rawness of driver feel without the polish. Brakes, power and suspension can be further enhanced but the feel of the first gen can't be done again
Awesome review! I'm curious to know what is the design/parts change made the steering feel different, is it intentionally designed to make the car more of a daily driver? Can any after market part/tunning improve the steering feel?
well done honest review. The Everyday Driver loved the steering feel and commented that they loved it despite the fact that it was electric assist. That said lotus is the benchmark and they stick to hydraulic
beautiful video. was actually considering making a video similar to yours since a part of me still prefers the first gen over this new gen. keep in mind, i own a 2022 gen
Stiffer body structure appeals to me. I also find the steering not perfect on centre. Once in turns, I like it. I am really impressed with what a great daily the new car is. No car like it for the money.
Ive had this car for a few days, so obviously biased...lol, but I really dont have any big complaints, so far I love it. However, im not nearly the car enthusiast that others are so my needs and wants are different, and ive never owned any of the prior gens. But I like this vid, seems like an honest review from a different perspective.
It's a great car and is a better daily driver than the first gen. However many reviewers are just parroting what they've heard without critically thinking and assessing it for themselves compared to the prior generation. That's the baseline - how does second gen compared to first gen? When you have the two back to back, the differences are stark, and while most people will say the second gen is better in every way, that's absolutely not the case.
As an owner of a 2018 brz (dd 80%/track 20%) AND a 2022 gr86, I’ll say this. I drive my 2018 a ton more than the gr86. The 2018 has coils, e85, full tomei exhaust, subframe and diff inserts, lwt driveshaft. The 86 is well improved if you like comfortable driving. Kind of boring thou when you have a 2400lbs 220hp ride.
I own a 2013 BRZ Limited. I am now a lucky old guy and have always owned manual sports cars. Lots of them. I’ve owned this longer than any of them. The 2013 is a great car. I’m sure the new one is nice, but it’s more the same than different. I’ve done no performance upgrades. I’ve done a lot to the interior. There is no silver plastic left. Everything is covered in leather. alcontera, and carbon fiber. The stereo is upgraded to current/car play. I’ve done tasteful exterior upgrades as well. It’s a beautiful car and gets looks and comments constantly. I love it. Not worth the upgrade to me.
I don't think steering feel is a big issue you drove yours for 9 years and the new one for a fee weeks. Chances are you're not used to it. I had a 2013 frs 3 years and my 2022 brz for 8 months. Steering is not an issue once you get used to it and somone going straight toba 2022 brz or 86 woudnt know the difference I actually like the soft leather like wrap around the steering wheel it's comfortable compared to 2013 frs. Throttle and tourque is noticeably different if you accelerate from around 30mph and keep rpm just under 5k that's my 2 cents from a 2022 brz owner but I appreciate how you pointed out bad and good things about the car to keep it fair.
@@jubbalandcars True compared to 1st gen but what about if you were to switch your tires to say, Michelin PS4s like you did on your 1st gen? Different tires/size do impact steering feel as you already know. Not saying it would be as raw as your 2013 as far as steering feel goes but my guess is that it might significantly close the gap. 🤷♂️
Dude… you’re killing me. My 2013 FRS (which I’ve owned since 2012) has the best steering of any car I’ve driven in the last 20 years. And this isn’t the only time I’ve heard this… super bummed about that. I’m holding off anyway. My ‘13 just passed 70K and still has plenty left.
Yeh, I'm going to disagree MOSTLY. I agree with the steering feel somewhat, but everything else is much better than the 2nd gen (13-21 FRS,brz,GT86). My complaint is the clutch feel is garbage compared to the previous gen.
GR86 and 11th Civic imo made same mistake they should've kept the rear aesthetically similar to the prior gen, upgrade front fascia upgrade the interior , upgrade power unit
man i love that you have kept both your 13 and this new one. that's what i'd love to do myself - i'm not planning on getting rid of my 13 at all, still runs great but i'd love to have the new gen also, and these are still so cheap compared with most new cars these days...
@@jubbalandcars true. i guess i'd keep one for track usage specifically (that is the main reason i've kept my old 13 anyway) and the other as a DD and occasional track day. wouldn’t feel nearly as bad about damaging a 10 year old car (or destroying an engine) that has given me years already
I still like the look of the first generation 2013-2016 better, I'm not really a fan of the 2017 to 2020 design, They just copied the STI Brz concept with the 2017 to 2020 style. I still like the 86 2013 the 2016 style as well, The facelift for the 2017 at 2020 86 looks too catfishy. Hyundai has been making a lot of catfish looking cars too as well as the new Mustang looks like a catfish in the front.
I was planning on getting another FRS however $19k for and FRS with 80k miles and 5 owners or GR86 brand new with 0 miles and 0 owners for $29k the GR86 won
The lack of feedback from electric steering has been a major concern of mine. Just about every single vehicle that I've driven over the past several years (albeit not sports cars) that had electric power steering (EPS) has had the same disconnected feeling, like you're using the steering wheel in a video game. I have my suspicions as to why manufacturers are going this way (hint: it's not due to "emissions" - the emissions savings between hydraulic power steering and electric is virtually negligible.) So unless people start demanding that - even everyday cars, not just sports cars - come equipped with HPS, the market will continue it's slow assault on the love of driving. The majority of people don't even notice this happening. If I'm despising the lack of road feedback in regular commuter cars and SUVs, it would be inexcusable in a sports car. The very reason for driving a sports car is for the sensation and raw experience. They might as well make them all self driving (which is eventually what'll happen)
Hopeful the mod community will figure out a way to remove EPS and add HPS instead, but that'll be $$$$. Disappointed more people aren't talking about this - the major downsides to EPS.
It seams this video is for everyone who can’t afford/justify getting the new GR86. Don’t worry about everyone else. Rock that old Jam, who cares if it’s ugly or slow. If you love it, that’s all that matters.
i totally agree the only reason why i sold my old 86 its because it was an auto and the dealership wanted to give me 20k with 5k trade in allowance. just a much reasonable way to get a manual 😅
I think the new generation steering feel is related to different toe alignment too vs the previous gen, it changes a lot the feeling I'm waiting for the new gen and just sold old gen one (my2018)
Mark ups are crazy too; a normal listing is from $36-38k and I think it's a $28,000 value. Just gotta wait to see what happens down the road. A lot of the people that buy the car at $36,000 and gonna want out of their loans in a couple years.
It seems only the people who have had more track experience with the gen 1s has mentioned lack of steering feel. Topher is another one who mentioned it. It's weird how even some long term owners or people who drove them back to back didn't mention that difference. For me I'm going ahead and getting a 23 Premium MT. I've had a 13 FR-S AT for a few years now and it's becoming dangerously close to being a money sink. I'd rather sink that same money into just making payments on a car that still has a warranty that I don't plan on modifying for a good while.
@@EnhancedTrashBin It always was an electric steering rack. They changed to a newer version that is supposedly better. Now that I think about so few people are talking about it I wonder if it’s a region specific thing. Left hand drive vehicles being tuned for less weighty steering for “safety” or just a QC issue. Who knows.
@@FrontManagement621 I'm fairly sure it's just because it really isn't all that different. It's still incredibly responsive, and I feel a lot of feedback. It's fairly light, but I like it overall.
Also i wouldn’t say the new gen steering is worst or bad……I think the best way to describe it would be, the new gen’s steering feel is very good….however the first gen is still better.
Nicely done & well said. Similar to you, I purchased my 2013 FRS in Aug 2012. Being uncomfortable with big feet in a small foot box, I bought the AT and have been quite impressed. I have had her on the road course several times, enjoying every corner. I also like to get her out on the twisty milk roads running threw nearby farm lands and the Tail of the Dragon. As I'm retired now (67), I doubt that I will try the Gen 2.
You mentioned in the old model that you could feel the motor and transmission moving if you didn't get uour shifts right. I feel you on that. Does the new modle feel that way ?
@@jubbalandcars I hear ya. I have a 993 & an 07 GT3 993 slower & more fun to throw around - less drama GT3 much faster - a few more pucker-up moments & WAY more exciting!
Overall gen 2 is a much better daily. But there are significant issues with it that people don’t talk about compared to gen 1. I see so many reviewers say this has amazing steering on the same level as Porsche. Completely false. Throttle response and modulation is worse than first gen. Rawness traded for polish and comfort. It’s a mixed bag. Don’t just believe the hype. Understand what kind of trade offs you’re making between the two gen.
RCR did a review on the 86 recently and the user that lent them the car installed an ECU mod that allows for full throttle access when pressing the pedal. He said that mod pretty much fixed the issue youre referring to
I’m running a tomei catless uel header and e85 on my 2017 860 edition, how do you think it would stack up against a new gen 86
@@Redrash12 I think you’re referring to Pedal Commander?
Did not expect to see Dr. Kevin Jubbal commenting here
And then did not realize this was his second channel
@@Twig2250 i had an frs with a OFH+OFT e85 tune ran 14.1@98 mph. The new gr86 has been tested at similar times stock
Shoutout to you, my fellow Vegas 86 owner. I’ve owned a ‘17 86 and currently have a ‘13 FR-S. The 86 was manual and the FR-S is automatic. I’ve always tried to dissuade people from seeing these cars as “entry level” because they could be your one and only car until it dies and give you fun at any time. The torque dip is seriously overplayed, and not once has it crept in my head, stock or not. The problem is we live in a time where everything is a dick measuring contest, and people don’t want you to be happy with less. I plan on keeping this car as long as I can, because it’s principles and origins fit in with my beliefs, and I don’t think anyone should be ashamed for wanting that. Thank you for making this video and saying it how it is. It’s truly appreciated.
well put!
It has NO torque. Your regular Honda Odyssey will overtake it on the road, in-gear. The first gen 86/BRZ was the slowest ‘sportscar’ on the road, with no rear grip on those primacy tyres, and tendency just to oversteer into the next ditch or hedge on real B roads when it’s wet. It can perform nice powerslides if you have an open airfield or large piece of tarmac, but on the road? These things are the ultimate ricer’s wet dream. All shout and no go. Plus that same low grade plastic interior that you get from old chinese cars. My goodness. Even Toyota Corollas are miles better. Sorry if you find this offensive, but it is what it is. That’s why they tweaked, polished, and improved the second gen. The second gen is better. Try one.
Wholeheartedly agree 👍🏻. One question, how come an auto this time around?
@@jkwyx8290 The manual was brand new off the lot, the automatic was a used one that wasn’t anywhere near as expensive.
I appreciate your comment my guy. Can you explain more about the “its principles and origins fit in with my beliefs..”? I’m getting a GR 86 in MT and its the 10th Anniversary Edition. Itll get here this January! Want to know before I flip the kill switch. Also, just want to learn more about it, and understand that being fast in a straight line isn’t everything you need.
Definitely agree with on all your points. Torque dip on the 1st gen doesn’t bother me since I’ve always driven sub 200hp cars. The rawness of the driving experience especially in spirited runs in the canyons is enticing. What sold me on the 1st gen was the handling capabilities, the looks, the homage it represented, and the seating position.
The torque dip is also easily overcome with a shocking innovation …. Downshifting
@@jubbalandcars or a uel header and tune,I did mine for about 800 dollars,no more torque dip 🤷♂️
@@jubbalandcars ///// E 85 tune with catless header works too.
LOL the 1st gen is an awful ricer car. No power, no torque, looks only a juvenile can drool of, interior with cheap arse recycled plastics (at least it feels like it), and it oversteers far too easily in real world traffic, especially on winding b-roads in the rain. Basically a slow, cheaply made, dangerous ricer car.
Ended up grabbing a brand new 2019 86 GT for my first car at the tail end of 2019, and I still love it. Honestly, I was all-in for having something that could essentially teach me to become a better driver, and this was before 2nd gen was a thing. I just love the thing; the twin community is boundless, everyone has been super helpful, everything about the platform is versatile and "fun", where I could have just settled for a used Camry or something more "normal" with better gas mileage.
Almost 3 years later, I'm sitting on a custom Flexfuel tune, the car's peppy and responsive, and I love driving it. The torque dip's done, there's nothing that feels "off" about the power band, it's everything I ever wanted. When 2nd gen was announced, I was in the club of "I hate the way it looks, but I appreciate the power boost", but over time, I've had people jeering at me because I won't trade mine in for one. Here's my stance. Why should I choose to trade in a perfectly capable vehicle, built to my own specifications, that I still smile every single time I look back at it? I'm honestly still having trouble with thoughts that I can't even believe that this is MY car, and am still dumbfounded that I've come this far, after getting my license so late (family issues, hard to explain). But my question is...why should I trade in something that I still love, when I'm pretty much all-in on making this what I want it to be? It's not like they're on the registration, they have no say. As a DIYer, I like that I'm looking into getting an SC someday to ramp the power, but for now, this is the perfect daily for my ideal driving scenario, and it's not like I'm "tolerating" it when I enjoy every second of driving it.
Would I like more power? Absolutely, I love what I'm seeing from the FA24. But I'm dedicating myself to restoring my dad's car first.
I tested the ‘22 BRZ back to back with my early 86 on the same PS4 tires, and was similarly surprised that none of the early reviews picked up on the changes to the steering. Love the heft and extra communication of gen 1. In regard to road noise, I’d be interested to see a decibel test of the two cars on the same rubber. I noticed a significant leap in noise when I ditched the stock primacies for DS4. Appreciate the review from an owner of both cars
Thanks for the honest review. I have also owned my 13 FR-S for over nine years and enjoyed every moment even with the cricket still alive and well. The FR-S is so balanced and the steering feel is astonishing for a "budget" sports car. I own a 997.2 and sometimes I struggle to choose which car to drive - I am being completely honest here. I am also privileged to be associated with the automotive press and have many chances to test drive new cars. The FR-S is by far one of the best steering feel car I know. Most of the new cars now-a-day lack steering feel except for the very expensive sports cars. That said, my FR-S is a AT and I always wanted to go back to MT before everything is electrified. So I have been contemplating on getting a new daily (Supra? Z? MX-5? Type R? Used Boxster/Cayman?). When I am ready to pull the trigger I will have a very difficult time parting with the FR-S. Maybe I will find some space to keep it...
Totally relatable, I’ve always thought about getting a more comfortable car because getting old sucks, but the 2013 FR-S is still in my possession.
I went from my 2013 FR-S (had it for 10 years) to a 2022 Supra 3.0. No regrets at all. I'd have liked to have kept the FR-S - just because I absolutely loved the car - but had no space for it.
Go to new G87 M2 😅
Wow finally a reviewer that knows the audience and isn't just hyping up their new car. I've got 2023 brz on order. Glad you still came to the conclusion that the new gen is better (even if it's overrated)
I have been a proud owner of the first gen FRS, I’m planning on keeping and modding it to my liking in coming years instead of upgrading to the new gen. The power alone did not persuade me enough for the upgrade
They're both great cars with substantially different experiences
I have a first gen FR-S too. If I could I would get the second gen, daily it, and turn my first gen into more of a dedicated road racing car
Lol you mean you have not enough power in your first gen FRS. A 1.4 TSI VW Golf is faster than that car, and with that awful OEM michelin primacy tyres, slower in the bends as well. LOL.
@@Mav86asian wheels and tires are easily changeable, but RWD and low center of gravity is not
@@chowchow3335 the first gen GT86 is slow mate. That’s about it. It’s a poser’s car to attract girls who don’t understand cars.
It’s shocking how many people aren’t talking about the big steering difference, really interesting to hear your thoughts on it. I think a ranking/tier list video would be super interesting ranking many of the popular enthusiast cars when it came to steering.
I recently picked up a 2020 Brz limited performance package and I love it. I really wanted a 2nd gen but I couldn’t find anyone locally that had one and if there was one, it was above MSRP. Mine has only has 4K miles. I see how an upgrade from a 2013-2016 frs/gt/Brz is a big upgrade but I don’t see it as a huge improvement coming from a 2020. You get a lot of the same features on a 2020 like on a 2022. Except the extra mid power. That’s really nice.
Finally someone who is not just repeating others thoughts on this subject! Well done!
Thanks for making this video! Just bought a 2016 FRS with 12,000 miles and have been beating myself up about not waiting to get a GR86 for $4k more. Since the steering is my absolute favorite part of the FRS, and more important to me than power, i feel better about my decision. 😄
Should have waited lowkey but still good for you your choice
Congrats!
😂 Whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better about it.
@@h2oK9gbh foreal he comparing a 2015 to a 2022
Agreed, have much rather have gotten a 2022 over an older gen if it came down to a 4k difference.
Love the honesty here. I felt the same way in my back to back driving experience. I also felt the torque dip still exists in the new engine albeit much less noticeable than the first gen. Visually, I love the new GR86. Shifter feel is a huge improvement as well. Great job on this!
I totally agree with your assessment of the difference between the two generations. I just sold my 2013 FRS Manual (43k miles) since my new GR86 is on the way. When I test drove the GR86, the steering is much more numb, but I was surprised how effortless the turns were. I live in WV where there is not a straight road anywhere and the GR86 would take turns so easily, I was constantly braking to keep from rear ending the car in front of me.
Raw is a great description for the FRS. Use two hands and go hard. Most fun car I have ever driven (more smiles per mile). I had the FRS longer than any other car. I know I will miss it. I am anxious to get the GR86 and upgrade. My wife will appreciate she can talk to me in the new car (the FRS was not quiet). Great review.
Congrats on the new gen GR, I love that Neptune Blue! Had my 2020 86 for two years, Have been driving my new 22 GR86 Premium for almost three weeks and I have to disagree with opinion on the steering. I think compared to the 2020 the steering is much more precise. On my 2020 I overcame the torque dip by adding a 5k supercharger which gave me 278HP. So far I am not sure I plan to do that should a bolt on kit come out for the 2nd gen as I am very pleased with it right out of the box. Ran 2020 through the NC mountain runs (dragons tail, Moonshiner runs, Cherohala etc..etc) multiple times, and I look forward to taking the new GR up this October, I suspect with the newly sport tuned suspension and strengthened frame with much less body roll will make a big difference.
Agree 💯
Time for someone to swap a 2.4 in the first gen. Hopefully it's super simple.
Swap a 2.4 in the OG hachiroku, then vortech sc it!
Good video. The best reviews are those that find faults even if they are just minor inconveniences.
I have a gt86 2012 ; changed gear and diff oil ; car feels better changing gears. Also had a HKS supercharger fitted; changed suspension too; added strut braces front and rear, upgraded wheels wider 18”, changed exhaust system too. Car feels really good with these changes.
My issue with the rear end of the 2nd gen is that it doesn't look very distinct compared to the first gen. You'd think you're behind a Buick Regal or an Accord Coupe. It's not a bad design by any means. It's still a way better looking car than 90% of new cars that come out nowadays. No hideous plastic trim like the WRX, no disgusting style on an economy body like the Elantra N. It's just a classic sports car design through and through.
As someone who traded in the gen 1 for the gen 2. Everything he says is very true, it depends on what your preferences are, but i am looking forward to the amount of aftermarketsupport gen2 will be getting and seeing how that will do .
I’m sure they will do some updates and probably a special edition or two. Will wait on one of those.
@@sage11x they’ve already added a special edition.
I must be to use to trucks, I’ve driven type r’s, wrx’s, s2000, Camaro ss 1le, c7 vettes. The Gr86 is well in that range of responsiveness if the prior gen is better I’ll take the added comfort over the responsiveness. I do think the power is lacking but I’m use to v-8s and you can’t beat that with a normal 4. Overall I like my gr86 but don’t hyper focus on some of the nit picking, it’s a entry level sport coupe not a 50-60k car. Looks are a ten to me, I’ve been waiting on a car as nice looking as a s2000 that’s affordable and this is it 100 percent. The value of this car is the best I’ve owned so far.
Looks gorgeous. Way better than gen 1
Same story here. Owned (and loved) and FR-S for 9 years and now in a GR86. I have to disagree. The GR86 is superior in all ways. Everything has been improved even the steering.
The only thing I would argue is that the GR-86 steering is much more serious, not playful like the FR-S. But that is still an improvement at higher speeds.
I don't remember the steering enough to say it's vastly different in any way.
Fuel economy is worse and the tail lights are ugly. The rest of the car is an upgrade across the board.
@@wayward03 the taillights are much better than the 1st gen lol.
Great review!! I've just traded my long term GT86 for a new GR86 and I would say your comments are pretty accurate. I loved my GT and would never have sold it except I somehow managed to get to the top of a very long waiting list here in the UK. My first impression of the GR is that it's way more "daily driver" friendly. It's quieter and the extra torque makes driving it through traffic far less frantic. I haven't really noticed the steering issue that you mentioned but I haven't tracked it yet. On UK twisty roads, which seem to be a lot more severe than most of your US roads, the new GR is a joy!! You still have to use the gears optimally but the extra power has bought an even wider grin to my face and the Pilot 4's feel way more assured whilst still allowing a little lateral movement. I agree that the performance gap between the two cars is closer than most reviewers have mentioned but I also think that it will be far easier to get into trouble in the GR if you are at the limit. In summary the GR isn't a massive upgrade it's more of an incremental improvement of the old car.
I really appreciate the perspective here. I had a 2013 brz and then a 2017 brz. Did a stage 1 tune on the 2017.
Sold the 2017 in favor of a 2022 civic Si for its better day-to-day usability. Anticipate I’ll buy a new brz or gr86 again (after my younger daughter gets to driving age and I don’t have to haul a field hockey bag around).
Haven’t driven a new brz yet, but believe in the value of “raw”. I used to love going back and forth from the 2017 brz and my 2013 boxster s. The brz gives up so much performance to the Porsche, but it’s scrappy and flingable character was fulfilling. I hope the nuances of the new brz don’t disappoint me…..I know the fundamentals of the gen 2 are a major step forward, but this gentleman makes excellent points.
Very good video. Spoken very clearly and directly. Reminds me a lot of TheTopher and Tedward (which is a good thing).
Raised some points that I wasn't aware of. My '23 Netpune Blue Premium is arriving in a couple days and I'm struggling to contain my excitement. Fortunately, I won't be too disappointed by the new one at all because I'm coming from a CVT Impreza lol.
I have a 17 860. It’s legit all the car I’ll ever need. I don’t need power numbers, I want connection. This car gives more connection than most in this era. When you invest in these properly you get Porsche like handling for a fraction of the money. Regarding the sound I think that’s subjective. I like the sound personally. I’ll grow with this car and I’m confident I will be continually happy with it. 🤙🏻
Enjoyed this level headed comparison thank you for sharing been considered a gt86 as a fun little daily so I can keep my skyline for fun, thanks again
I personally like the body style of the 2013 FRS. its one of the reasons I bought it. But the steering is something I don't hear a lot of people talking about.
I like this review a lot. I think it really explains that it's still the same car, and even though the torque topic probably really is feelable - the old one is still a great car and a lot of reviews kind of just end up bashing the old version and praising the new one. And it's great this video emphasizes a lot some thing which are really better on the one one - like the steering wheel feel. So the new one is better, but both are great it seems
I accidentally removed your other comment about engine noise when trying to remove my initial response to it.
The fake engine noise is quite sibilant to my ears, I like it better without it. Also now that I've tracked the car I don't find it problematic at all. My friend disabled his and complains it's too quiet on track such that he couldn't shift properly so he added it back.
@@jubbalandcars Yes, that's also what I was thinking - when using for the track, it's probably better with the active sound. I still haven't got my GR86, but from what I've heard in sound in videos I've had the impression overall that it's nicer with the active sound. It's not the manufacturers fault though, it's the restrictions that the governments put for the sound of the cars... But in this case active sound is meant to just make the real car noise louder, I personally would have probably preferred if they had used a custom sound in the active noise, rather than trying to reproduce the authentic sound of this car, or if they gave an option to choose the sound you like... A custom exhaust sounds the coolest, but in a way with the active sound I think it's a good advantage, that the noise from outside can be lower and on lower revs the car is more silent and only gets to show off on higher rev's - you can't have these without active sound...
Lovely summary you made throughout this video
I have a 2017 brz with performance package and I can tell you for sure the responsiveness and shifter improved dramatically when I installed a carbon fiber driveshaft. Specially down shifting.
Completely agree with you! I own a 2014 BRZ and a 2022 BRZ and one of the most disappointing point in the new BRZ is the steering feel and the lack of raw feel that you had in the first version... Also I didn't mind having to go high in RPM to find power and actually I find that enjoyable... I followed all the reviews and bought the new version without having the opportunity to test drive it and find myself a bit disappointed...Everybody seems so happy with the comfort, the screens etc ... If I wanted a comfortable car with screens I would buy myself a Mercedes not a BRZ...
Do you have a video comparing the suspension are pickup points different etc?
This was very enlightening to have the comparison between both as I've been waiting for years to get my finances together and recently put a deposit down on the new one after having a few test drives with the old one over the years. I'm mainly sold on the new one because it's quieter, 100% mine from day one, the notchy gear shifts and better air con 😅.
I think the second gen is a much better daily
Finally, someone that talks about the steering feel and other aspects of the car other than power. I own a first gen, 2018 86 gt 6 speed manual and it has fantastic steering feel, pretty quick steering as well, comparable to my e46 m3 and in my opinion better than my 335i I daily. In my opinion the first gen gives me vibs of the e30 m3: light weight, same power, simple and just pure and raw, but modern, as you eloquently stated. I have not had a chance to drive the gr86, but I have read that the steering ratio is also slightly slower. I will test drive it but if I do not like it then I will just make some compromises and spring for the a90 Supra 6 speed, as some of my BMW friends that also own it said it is the best steering and driving modern BMW, Toyota has built from BMW. Thanks again for the great and honest review.
I heard Supra steering wasn’t that great but I haven’t tried it myself. Funny you compare FRS/86 to E30. I also compare it to older BMWs, specifically E36. Very similar character although obviously E36 had better steering feel since hydraulic BMW during their peak
I own an MY14 86 GTS with a lot of sensible mods - full TRD suspension, Stage 2+ tune with headers and full exhaust, modded clutch and shifter springs etc the list goes on. Drove the new BRZ and I am no longer lusting after the new model. sure the engine is better but my modded 86 isn't that far behind. I was struggling to put my finger on why the new gen didn't knock my socks off and your vid helped. the new one isn't as raw and it's stepping into the more comfy and "samey" class as everything else on the road. just cos the new one is out it doesn't turn the old one from a great car to a shitbox over night.
I have the toyota gt86 trd limited edition and I love it and I beat so many fast cars in the corner backroads is crazy how ppl only talk about car that go fast in straight line wish there good but handles are good too
Never drove a first gen, but I absolutely love my 2023 86.
Definitely agree about the analog gauges, there's just nothing quite like watching that needle move.
As for the rear, I think the main reason people are disappointed with the rear is that the 1st gen rear looked so damn good. I'm still surprised at how good it is everytime I see one.
Excellent review. Love hearing from someone with so much experience with both versions. I have the 2022 brz.
Did the helper spring delete on the clutch and it's better. But I might just change out the clutch at some point. The brz is my daily so who knows what I do in the end. Thanks.
As a '13 FRS owner considering a BRZ this the video I wanted to see. Cheers
Thanks for your review and information 👍
Thanks for watching
The analog feel is true and I've only test drove first Gen brz and I currently own a GR86. To each of there own but the reason why I chose a gr86 is not because of the commercials nor the reviews but how I witnessed a 22 BRZ in autocross and completely astonished how it performed against more expensive built vehicles like an E85 Hawkeye on radials while the BRZ has wheels, tires, coilovers and a muffler delete. Times speak for itself and the GR86 and 22 BRZ are definitely faster but let's just be thankful both existed especially since first gens sold good which made the second gen to have improvements for the better or less.
I thought I was the only one who was looking for a comparison between the 2 generations...
I believe lotus was able to get the best steering feel by NOT using any power steering assist of any type, so it’s cars were basically running with old school manual steering which allows the driver to feel everything the front wheels/steering wheels are doing, resulting in the driver having much more confidence in his driving skills.
I’ve owned a 2013 FRS and a 2024 GR86. The only thing that’s worse in the new one is the steering, just doesn’t feel as good as the old one. Everything is a significant upgrade.
My take is kouki or face listed 1st gen 86 stock or lightly modiefied. You get the rawness of driver feel without the polish. Brakes, power and suspension can be further enhanced but the feel of the first gen can't be done again
Would love to hear how you like the ND or ND2 Miata! I agree with all your opinions on these small fun to drive cars
Awesome review! I'm curious to know what is the design/parts change made the steering feel different, is it intentionally designed to make the car more of a daily driver? Can any after market part/tunning improve the steering feel?
well done honest review. The Everyday Driver loved the steering feel and commented that they loved it despite the fact that it was electric assist. That said lotus is the benchmark and they stick to hydraulic
Both first and second gen 86 are EPS
beautiful video. was actually considering making a video similar to yours since a part of me still prefers the first gen over this new gen. keep in mind, i own a 2022 gen
I bought the first gen 2014 in 2022 instead of buying the new model just because it looked better to me and don’t regret it at all
Stiffer body structure appeals to me. I also find the steering not perfect on centre. Once in turns, I like it. I am really impressed with what a great daily the new car is. No car like it for the money.
Comes with the extra silicone option free of charge. Good luck with the warranty.
Free extra silicone!? Score
Ive had this car for a few days, so obviously biased...lol, but I really dont have any big complaints, so far I love it. However, im not nearly the car enthusiast that others are so my needs and wants are different, and ive never owned any of the prior gens. But I like this vid, seems like an honest review from a different perspective.
It's a great car and is a better daily driver than the first gen. However many reviewers are just parroting what they've heard without critically thinking and assessing it for themselves compared to the prior generation. That's the baseline - how does second gen compared to first gen? When you have the two back to back, the differences are stark, and while most people will say the second gen is better in every way, that's absolutely not the case.
lack is more than available. For me pure is beautiful
The swap from the 22 to the 13 in the video made me smile that new interior is boring to look at
these roads are incredible!
As an owner of a 2018 brz (dd 80%/track 20%) AND a 2022 gr86, I’ll say this. I drive my 2018 a ton more than the gr86. The 2018 has coils, e85, full tomei exhaust, subframe and diff inserts, lwt driveshaft. The 86 is well improved if you like comfortable driving. Kind of boring thou when you have a 2400lbs 220hp ride.
I just drove a 2015 WRX STI last Saturday and I prefer my 2016 frs over it. Am I crazy
they dont tell you you will only get about 70k miles before bearing failure due to the oil pickup tubes being clogged from the factory
Nice car. Ordered my 86 in Utah as well, bringing it back to Vegas when it comes.
Hypothetical; if you could get your 1st gen with the 2.4L would you take it over the 2nd gen?
Yes
Digital dash is super nice , I love it . I have a 2022 BRZ and 2022 Supra . I like the BRZ dash a bit better .
Awesome garage
Good info thanks for sharing. Did you notice a hood flutter around 70 mph? Savage geese and some other car youtube reviewer experienced that flutter.
I own a 2013 BRZ Limited. I am now a lucky old guy and have always owned manual sports cars. Lots of them. I’ve owned this longer than any of them. The 2013 is a great car. I’m sure the new one is nice, but it’s more the same than different. I’ve done no performance upgrades. I’ve done a lot to the interior. There is no silver plastic left. Everything is covered in leather. alcontera, and carbon fiber. The stereo is upgraded to current/car play. I’ve done tasteful exterior upgrades as well. It’s a beautiful car and gets looks and comments constantly. I love it. Not worth the upgrade to me.
Loving my gr corolla
Had mine for half a year and its been such a great daily.
I don't think steering feel is a big issue you drove yours for 9 years and the new one for a fee weeks. Chances are you're not used to it. I had a 2013 frs 3 years and my 2022 brz for 8 months. Steering is not an issue once you get used to it and somone going straight toba 2022 brz or 86 woudnt know the difference I actually like the soft leather like wrap around the steering wheel it's comfortable compared to 2013 frs. Throttle and tourque is noticeably different if you accelerate from around 30mph and keep rpm just under 5k that's my 2 cents from a 2022 brz owner but I appreciate how you pointed out bad and good things about the car to keep it fair.
There’s a deadness to the steering in center which the first gen didn’t have. No problem with soft wrapped leather on the wheel
@@jubbalandcars True compared to 1st gen but what about if you were to switch your tires to say, Michelin PS4s like you did on your 1st gen?
Different tires/size do impact steering feel as you already know. Not saying it would be as raw as your 2013 as far as steering feel goes but my guess is that it might significantly close the gap.
🤷♂️
Dude… you’re killing me. My 2013 FRS (which I’ve owned since 2012) has the best steering of any car I’ve driven in the last 20 years. And this isn’t the only time I’ve heard this… super bummed about that. I’m holding off anyway. My ‘13 just passed 70K and still has plenty left.
FRS steering is one of the best sub $50k for sure
I never noticed how much the second gen rear looks like the si with the shape of tail lights
I have the '18 brz sport tech rs. It has dual climate controls and oil temp gauge. I still prefer the styling of gen 1.
2:25 that is the old Altoids storage slot!
Yeh, I'm going to disagree MOSTLY. I agree with the steering feel somewhat, but everything else is much better than the 2nd gen (13-21 FRS,brz,GT86). My complaint is the clutch feel is garbage compared to the previous gen.
I thought the clutch feel was garbage on 1st gen!
GR86 and 11th Civic imo made same mistake they should've
kept the rear aesthetically similar to the prior gen, upgrade front fascia
upgrade the interior , upgrade power unit
The rear is fine for most people who daily these things
man i love that you have kept both your 13 and this new one. that's what i'd love to do myself - i'm not planning on getting rid of my 13 at all, still runs great but i'd love to have the new gen also, and these are still so cheap compared with most new cars these days...
I’ll be getting rid of the 13 in a month or so
@@jubbalandcars aww damn lol. i don’t have anywhere to put a 3rd vehicle myself, suppose i could street park the old one
There’s so many amazing cars out there that I feel like why own two super similar cars when you can get something totally different
@@jubbalandcars true. i guess i'd keep one for track usage specifically (that is the main reason i've kept my old 13 anyway) and the other as a DD and occasional track day. wouldn’t feel nearly as bad about damaging a 10 year old car (or destroying an engine) that has given me years already
Not many reviewers talk about the much stiffer chassis, nor how it affects the handling feel compared to the previous chassis.
I still like the look of the first generation 2013-2016 better, I'm not really a fan of the 2017 to 2020 design, They just copied the STI Brz concept with the 2017 to 2020 style. I still like the 86 2013 the 2016 style as well, The facelift for the 2017 at 2020 86 looks too catfishy. Hyundai has been making a lot of catfish looking cars too as well as the new Mustang looks like a catfish in the front.
I love cheap Japanese sport cars. I got a 2014 FRS. it's my weekend car. I love it. I will upgrade in a few yrs
Let's all swap the FA24 to the gt86/frs after fa20 stock engine is done.
I was planning on getting another FRS however $19k for and FRS with 80k miles and 5 owners or GR86 brand new with 0 miles and 0 owners for $29k the GR86 won
The lack of feedback from electric steering has been a major concern of mine. Just about every single vehicle that I've driven over the past several years (albeit not sports cars) that had electric power steering (EPS) has had the same disconnected feeling, like you're using the steering wheel in a video game.
I have my suspicions as to why manufacturers are going this way (hint: it's not due to "emissions" - the emissions savings between hydraulic power steering and electric is virtually negligible.)
So unless people start demanding that - even everyday cars, not just sports cars - come equipped with HPS, the market will continue it's slow assault on the love of driving.
The majority of people don't even notice this happening. If I'm despising the lack of road feedback in regular commuter cars and SUVs, it would be inexcusable in a sports car. The very reason for driving a sports car is for the sensation and raw experience.
They might as well make them all self driving (which is eventually what'll happen)
Hopeful the mod community will figure out a way to remove EPS and add HPS instead, but that'll be $$$$.
Disappointed more people aren't talking about this - the major downsides to EPS.
I didn’t realized that the base came with rubber pedals versus the metal on the premium
I've been on the fence about trading in my series Grey brz for a new one but ultimately want to own bot gens so I'll have to wait a couple more years.
It seams this video is for everyone who can’t afford/justify getting the new GR86. Don’t worry about everyone else. Rock that old Jam, who cares if it’s ugly or slow. If you love it, that’s all that matters.
i totally agree the only reason why i sold my old 86 its because it was an auto and the dealership wanted to give me 20k with 5k trade in allowance. just a much reasonable way to get a manual 😅
I think the new generation steering feel is related to different toe alignment too vs the previous gen, it changes a lot the feeling
I'm waiting for the new gen and just sold old gen one (my2018)
In the last second of the video you can hear him cracking a cold one open. Arrest this man
LOL
Mark ups are crazy too; a normal listing is from $36-38k and I think it's a $28,000 value. Just gotta wait to see what happens down the road. A lot of the people that buy the car at $36,000 and gonna want out of their loans in a couple years.
It seems only the people who have had more track experience with the gen 1s has mentioned lack of steering feel. Topher is another one who mentioned it. It's weird how even some long term owners or people who drove them back to back didn't mention that difference.
For me I'm going ahead and getting a 23 Premium MT. I've had a 13 FR-S AT for a few years now and it's becoming dangerously close to being a money sink. I'd rather sink that same money into just making payments on a car that still has a warranty that I don't plan on modifying for a good while.
I believe the steering has to do with it being electronic with the new one and most cars nowadays.
@@EnhancedTrashBin It always was an electric steering rack. They changed to a newer version that is supposedly better.
Now that I think about so few people are talking about it I wonder if it’s a region specific thing. Left hand drive vehicles being tuned for less weighty steering for “safety” or just a QC issue.
Who knows.
@@FrontManagement621 I'm fairly sure it's just because it really isn't all that different. It's still incredibly responsive, and I feel a lot of feedback. It's fairly light, but I like it overall.
@@Lord_Sunday123 Just got myself into a GR86 MT after trading an old 13 FR-S AT. Same thoughts.
I believe tsuchiya explained this very well when he test drove it. He said the gr86 feels more raw, while the gr86 feels more smooth.
Why no sunroof/convertible options? And a D steering wheel would do it justice as well.
Also i wouldn’t say the new gen steering is worst or bad……I think the best way to describe it would be, the new gen’s steering feel is very good….however the first gen is still better.
Nicely done & well said. Similar to you, I purchased my 2013 FRS in Aug 2012. Being uncomfortable with big feet in a small foot box, I bought the AT and have been quite impressed. I have had her on the road course several times, enjoying every corner. I also like to get her out on the twisty milk roads running threw nearby farm lands and the Tail of the Dragon. As I'm retired now (67), I doubt that I will try the Gen 2.
There are simple bolt on mods that will make the car feel *raw* again.
Might just be me, but i like the first gen interior way better
It’s just you 😂
@@jubbalandcars Naw, hes right
1st gen more unique looking. Nicer looking AC vents and door pulls.
I drove a 23 manual brz, full throttle. It felt the same as my e85 uel 2013
You mentioned in the old model that you could feel the motor and transmission moving if you didn't get uour shifts right. I feel you on that. Does the new modle feel that way ?
No more forgiving
How much quicker does it feel with EL headers and the tune? Do you have any acceleration figures?
I had a 2014 TRD I wish they had put that quad exhaust on the GR86 that would have looked a lot better at the back
Soo - which is faster on the track???
More importantly
which car is more FUN on Track & On Road?
2nd Gen faster on track. Which is more fun is going to be personal preference
@@jubbalandcars I hear ya.
I have a 993 & an 07 GT3
993 slower & more fun to throw around - less drama
GT3 much faster - a few more pucker-up moments & WAY more exciting!
What phone mount do u have on your gr? I currently have a 22' gr86 but my phone position is a little awkward.