I think that a detail many of us forget, seeing as we have seen the events unfold, is that it wasn't common knowledge that the "Tenno" refers to the sentience behind the warframe, aka the operator. Most common folk of the orokin era and even in our contemporary origin system would see "Tenno" and "warframe" as synonymous for the same thing.
I surprisingly never encountered the stalker coming after me till after I had done the Second Dream questline and I did it with a dude that kept killing stalker so none of the ghosts can be me by that theory then. Don't ask me how I never encountered the stalker until I did the quest and after, I honestly do not know, but I did start playing right after Second Dream had dropped and went straight for it as quick as possible as people kept getting angry about me being the noob that they could not give spoilers too.... Maybe thats it?
you have the clip right there in the video where Hunhow says "You cut their heads off and they rise again" - making it pretty obvious that the tenno does not die w/ the warframe in that scenario. That however just because we beat the stalker in our orbiters, doesn't mean every tenno did. those could be tenno ghosts that just lost their heads at the end of second dream. NO NEW DREAMS FOR YOU!
though even after you would behead an operator, they would not truly be dead (unless the killer also possessed Oro, which the stalker probably does not)
Or more likely, the Warframes who died fully because Tenno didn't have enough Oro left to revive it (like mission failure upon running out of revives) The Tenno who didn't yet know the revelations from The Second Dream would have the "die in the matrix then die in real life" happen to them and become ghosts like these.
Genuinely thought this video was about the giant ghost faces in Lua. Found a ruined room with 3 giant pillars, middle one had a blue face appear and disappear. Great content!
Not sure if someone else has mentioned this, but there is one more "ghost" on Lua. Lua Rescue - when you get to the jail, watch from a bit afar the console that is right in front of the trapdoor to the inner sanctum (the room with the consoles to they void portals, behind one of which is the rescue target). There is one ghost manning that console. It just stands there, doing nothing, except seemingly trying to unlock the console.
ON JAH BRO, I've never been on youtube so long, coz I was watching some warframe lore to understand the game as a switch player, and I kept searching for lore finally finding some one who know what he's talking about and spends time explaining ever topic if warframe in detail, I've been here for more than 3hours now...
Her legs were scattered to the two poles of the moon, twisted in a wicked position, in a field of obsidian thorns…" -The Evisceration of Kur-skan the Heretic, V
Hmm, and about the stalkers equipment (disregarding war) dread has (as far as i'm aware) the highest slash of any bow, description reads "good for beheading", scythe finishers, like the hate's, have a animation you could interpret as beheading as well, similarly to i think heavy blades (barely use heavy blades, so not fully certain) so those could be nods to the stalker liking to do that.
You know... I didn't either and that's what got me thinking about making the video. Obviously I could be wrong but there are a few context clues I think at least lend themselves to my theory. We'll see what everyone else says in the end!
@@TheDsIEGE i can't quite be sure they are missing heads, based on how skinny/shriveled the body and other extremities are; so could be a small shrunken head, or the head isn't fully beheaded but instead cut just above where the lower jaw would be. Either way doesn't change the potentiality of the idea.
based on how it was explained during the event that it was basically a novelty the orokin would use to temporarily be in a different body for whatever reason they wanted to do it. That’s how I see it personally
I can connect the “Shadow” Stalker’s codex to the Naga drums. Remember Octavia’s anthem? TAIR THEM UP And how our Warframe was able to move must’ve been the tenno spying on the Stalker using Loki. The light emanating around Stalker after the War was broken still looks like that extracting light when capturing a target. Is someone els “walking in the shadows”?
The problem with 7:20 is that we regularily (at least recently) have started getting kicked out of piloting our warframes because of a number of different things. i highly doubt killing the warframe would cause the Tenno to die as well considering that really doesn't seem to be how transference works
4:39 i think they are. As we see in the second dream as stalker chokes us, the warframe breaks The War. This could be written down as just you temporarily controlling it, but I dont think so. As we see in The call of the tempestaari, sevagoth's shadow exists on its own, presumibly without being comtrolled by a tenno. In sevagoth's case, what woke his consciouness up is well... time. He was believed to be lost. So he had plenty of time to do it. What could have woken up our frame in the Second Dream? I am not sure, but I have an idea. It was a cry for help from us. Powerful enough to temporarily wake it up. Because as we ourselves say in The Sacrifice quest: " Our minds are linked now". Sure, Umbra is different, but at the end they were Both just people, dax warriors, transformed by the infestation. They are emptied of memories, all traces of their previous personality pretty much gone(Technically their memories are still there, but nearly impossible to recall, except umbra because he has the memory of him being forced to kill his son just to torture him). In short, they are empty vessels created for us from normal people using the infestation.
Hmmm, I never thought about what happens to souls during continuity... it is something very interesting to think about. As for the ghost, I always thought that they were Orokin killed by the Tenno (The Tenno used blades to kill the Orokin, so cutting off their heads would make sense... They are bigger than most people, as Orokin are, and perhaps the way they kneel was just an old Orokin era way to kneel.) I assumed that only the top of the top Orokin had fancy arms though. Hunhow also said that though warframes are cut down, more rise again, which has always made me wonder if Tenno just lose the frames, not their lives. He also went through a lot of trouble to kill the Operators directally on Lua, meaning perhaps killing the warframes wouldn't 'cut' it (is that a pun???). But then again, it has been mentioned that we the 'Operators' are in danger during quests, which wouldn't make sense if we were not able to be hurt physically. As always though, there was a lot to think about with this video, great job!
I just want to point out that in that cinematic, Stalker or Hunhow comment on the futility of killing them once and again, and that they keep coming back So I think that Loki was fine after all
I might be a month late as this is my second comment to this video, but I have a new theory. "Who nurtures you in your times of rest? Who restores your battle-torn frame, day after day after day? Whose milk enriches your kindred flesh with endless strength and vigor? It can only be me." - Helminth This explains why the Warframes move on their own, influenced by the Helminth and not the void or the Tenno, or any other Oro (only the ones possessing the ability of Transference to Warframes, which are only the Tenno, unless another individual gains access to Transference Technology to do this like the Stalker, for instance). This also explains why the individuals introduced to the technocyte helminth to form Warframes might have died due to it, hence we see ghosts on lua. Remember, these individuals introduced to the Technocyte before becoming Warframes, did not get exposure to the void, hence they can't be Oros. Anyone who dies without exposure to the Void don't get a chance to resurrection, hence they become Ghosts instead of Oro. Those are lost souls/ghosts that were forced out of their bodies by the Helminth in order to form the Warframes on Lua. That is where the Technocyte was experimented, on Lua. So it does make sense why there are ghosts on Lua, the former individuals who died due to the Technocyte, hence the Warframes are lifeless once exited by the Tenno via Transference. Umbra is an exception to this as he is fitted with a Transference bolt. During the Second Dream, the warframe was able to tear the War blade in two by itself (the Tenno was not in control), because at that moment, it was the Helminth that had been controlling the warframe in order to save the Tenno. For some reason, the Helminth cares for the Tenno somehow, which might imply that the Helminth depends on the Tenno for something, which at the moment we can't tell what exactly. As to why the ghosts don't have heads may be just a decision made by DE to leave them headless but if you have an idea, you can interject. I know that in my previous comment, I said that it might be the Tenno that might be beheaded by the Stalker or the Orokin, but I highly doubt it, because the Tenno have an Oro, which means that they can survive death. So far, no Tenno actually died in the hands of the Stalker except the Warframes rendered useless by him.
Not headless, you can see the lower jaw, also in your vid you can see the open spinal column that Excalibur has, they're excal models with the top of the head deliberately unrendered with the ghost effect to hide the more characteristic horn. If im wrong about the lower jaw, then they likely just removed the helmet for the same reason
Sounds good my theory so far was that these where dreamstate tenno that have not yet awakened like we were in the tutorial essentially passing the time in a ghost form. Which would make even more sense when you put it together they have been defeted or never awoken and are now waiting for a new warframe to be awakened in by the lotus
I thought with orokin continuity they'd just trade souls with their new chosen body and the original persons soul would be forced into the old and dying body effectivly shortening their life, how evil...
Hi Mr. The IEGE! I just found your channel and I'm loving it. Just wanted to chime in and tell you I think your work is great. Haven't even watched this video yet, but I'm loving working up to it. Anyways, hope you're having a good day, thank again for the content!
Decapitation doesn't *necessarily* kill a Warframe for good, Umbra was in literal pieces. And since we built him by the same method of every Warframe, it would imply we do a similar process to all the frames. Now, a decapitated Warframe, if my theory is correct, is certainly dispatched until somone glues his head back on. As to what happens to the Tenno that are in the frames when this happens is anyone's guess. Umbra never had a drift so when he got obliterated he didn't have a Tenno.
@TheDsIege I have a bit of a strange theory... And I am sorry, I know this might not be a good place to post it, but you just gave me the idea. It might be stupid, but I would like to share it with you, and the rest I watched all of your videos about warframe lore and i LOVE THEM ALL... But they all made me thinking... and there is one constant thing that I notice. We have a really difficult time to actually put a time frame on things. What happened when... How long ago something happen... and so on.... So, why does the quest... where Tenno is waking up is called "Second dream"? So.... What if... we (operators/tenno) can't remember anything and have difficulty to put things in the right time frame is because we are still... dreaming? This entire universe is just our dream. Maybe Orokin empire still exists? I mean, for the powerful super beings, so advanced, they did some extremely stupid things. Do we really think they would make a weapon of mass destruction (warframes and tenno) without some form of control? One would think that Tenno would remember the massacre they did on Orokin... Yet they can't recall a thing. But in game, my operator do tell sometimes, when we fight infested: "We need to purge the infestation, just like we did in the old war"(or something along those lines) So he does remember some parts? But not the fact they destroyed an entire empire? What better control then to think everything is destroyed and we live in post apocalyptic world of our own design? There is nothing left to destroy for us. So we go, do the mission, return to orbiter... Nothing to really do in such a world... And we do not feel remorse in killing so many people (Greenier and COrpus might not be the best people, but they are humanoids, sentient beings). yet they all act like it is normal to die in hundreds... They do not retreat, they do not run... they do not ask for mercy... ever... So what if second dream is not really us waking up... but actually going to deeper sleep?
i think they might be remnants of cephalons. either damaged cephalons who have lost their structure and become ghosts stuck frozen or floating around, or the bits left over from the process of creating a cephalon (no ghost head = it was magically cut off and stuck into the geometric cephalon structure that can interface with machinery)
Hunhow wanted ti know where "the tenno heart" was hidden. He didn't know were Lua was and set up the bait to get the know from the Lotus through us. I played the operator quests with every frame.
Within the tale of Naberus as recounted by Grandmother, we do catch a glimpse of continuity post transfer, in the form of the temporary, "blue-kuva". The three who partook in the act, were described to have just control over the body. We do not know however how the consciousness of the original fairs. The "long arms" of the orokin may be a symptom of their long presence in their body. Ancients for example have a long arm they use to attack, and have been long theorized to be orokin infested. In the Granum reliefs, the orokin that took Parvos's hand all had equal length arms.
Could be some kind of Transferrance ghost or reflections of dead Tenno (like you suggested). I don't recall seeing anything interact with them or acknowledge their existence. Maybe only we can see them? I guess it's kinda like that giant finger on the Railjack. None of the crew when docked interact with it and even our good ol Cephalon Cy literally can't compute that anything is there. The Void is one trippy drug.
My theory is, as void is embodiment of past, present and future aspect of the Universe, and Lua was in void for a long time, it might be the some other timeline, where the Warframe or humans or sentients working and its leaking into this timeline. Secondly In Night of Nabarus where Grandma tells us a story, we clearly see the continuity get performed with red and blue kuva.
Shit, I've never realized they had no heads! I used to believe they were massacred Orokins but yeah, now the theory with the Stalker's victims seems really true to life. So, maybe if the tenno is transferred into a warframe and this warframe is decapitated, the tenno is trapped inside, and when the tenno dies, the ghost keeps the image of the warframe. This all is a bit hard to fit into the lore but hey, you never know what twist is waiting at the next corner :D P.S. Because of the Duviri Paradox trailer I have a stupid theory that all this time the tenno have been like specters of themselves and later we will find their real bodies slowly aging in the void. P.P.S. Really like your theory videos. They remind me why I love this game ^_^
If you are talking about the necramech in the Heart of Deimos quest, it was definitely Grandma. Just listen to her intonations and then compare them with the necratalk. When you hear them one by one, the resemblance is striking :D
If those are souls of dead Tenno, then some of them coming together to try to return as a death knight themed warframe would be badass, though unlikely
I think a Warframe is a body with power. Like ancient infested healers have healing abilities, maybe some others also had sorts of abilities tied with their body. We know that Tenno can take over bodies. Just like that they take over the dead bodies which are given some structure with armour instead of blobs unstructured of meat. The body of Umbra was not dead. That's why he has consciousness.
Hey DsIEGE. Always wonder what would happen if the operator's standing was balanced between light and dark but that operator drank the kuva at the end of the war within quest. Because that is what my space child has gone through so far in the warframe lore. Also that weird ghost figure after the operator's dash does not appear for me. Just curious ya know.
Once while I was playing on the plains of eidolon with some friends, grinding terrys to escape mote hell, I saw a kneeling headless excalibur in the gates of cetus. I was the only one who had it on screen, but my two other friends were able to see it because we were playing LAN style. We took screenshots but it's on one of those friends computers and this was years ago. Curious if anyone has seen anything similar?
Guess just put this here, if I rember right the seven was the name of the orokin leaders the tenmo killed way back when, and I was replaying the second dream and realised the pod our operator comes out of is one of seven in that room, am I reading too far into this? There's also stuff around like how there are seven different challenge rooms on lua for you to get drift mods from so maybe it's just styling
Dude, food for thought: Orokin had a "market" for bodies for their transference, but... They keep their "perfect flawless Orokin Body"... Why? How? How they do this kind of possession in a body and... Morph them into their image? ... How?!
A) They are archemedians who were turned into free roaming cephalons to serve the empire, Suda being a good example showing it wasnt only used as a punishment (but now is). B) They are the Warframes killed by stalker and so on, how and why they apear as ghost? No idea. Unlikeley to be the tenno since the second dream and chains of harrow quest show when you take fatal damage as a tenno you are taken to the void only to come back in time to try again, there is also this thing called "Oro" but "starlordD" does a good job explaining it in his video about the void. Kinda forgot about those ghost on lua, they never semed to bother me much, it nice to talk about some old stuff before the new War
But then it wasn't fatal if they were able to just respawn again, right? I saw his video on oro and... I feel like Entrati's lore kind of puts some of the things in his videos up for debate. I'm not saying he was wrong, rather that DE may have changed certain things up...
Answer to your question: Continuity. My thoughts on this question of yours. If they are ghosts of tenno, orokin, warframe, etc. The ghost would number into the tens of thousands if not millions. As remember lore-wise the tenno stuck revenge on a day of celebration, a day of ceremony. Most ceremonies amass a large number of the populace. On any of the system's moons and planets, Lua being no different. However, there isn't tens of thousands or millions of ghost seen roaming about. The number of ghosts are only in the dozens from what we have seen. We also know that only the orokins performed continuity on themselves. I highly doubt an average joe got the ability to pass their soul on. Another thing to consider even on the warframe front that not all warframes require kuva to make. The only ones are Excalibur Umbra, Garuda, Harrow, Octavia, and my boy Nidus. And since Kuva is required for continuity, going on of your theory. Then those warframes made from kuva would be in this continuity state (ghosts) when... beheaded. But that doesn't hold much water. I personally speculate that these are only orokin ghost. Who just happened to be in the middle of continuity when the tenno uprising happened. Leaving them no place to go. It has been pointed out time and time again. That the orokin only uses others as tools. Why give tools a chance to use the continuity ability? It wouldn't make sense. Plus even during the war within. That was a guarded secret. The only reason we know about it is due to Tenshin who is a Dax Soldier, sworn (use to be) to the orokin. If anything. I feel the orokin in general epitomizes's the old Cole Porter quote. "This rule I propose, Always have an ace in the hole. Always try to arrive at Having an ace someplace private. Always have an ace in the hole."
This made me think of something about the acolytes. The acolytes have warframe body but the head piece of the stalker. Maybe the decapitated warframe are then later on used by the stalker to make the acolytes. I don't know much about the acolytes tho
Stalker is your Operator’s monstrous ID (Freud). Part of who you are/were as a child suffered fear and pain and resentment as a dangerous void being who watched your parents go insane and then were conscripted as child super-soldiers to pilot Warframes. Margulis compartmentalized the nightmares and negativity but I think it became weaponized HATE, DESPAIR, DREAD and found a home in a rogue Warframe. Stalker can always find you and is immune to your powers because he IS you (Jungian Shadow discussion apt here also). Stalker and the Operator, both in black, look at their hand in exactly the same way, and even Stalker’s symbol is a twisted, nightmare version of the Lotus Symbol. He hunts Warframes because he is a version of your subconscious that despises them for the reality they bind you to.
I always thought that maybe the ghostly apparitions were Orokin that got caught in the Moon's transfer to being hidden from view. Their bodies were destroyed in the process, but since they drank the kuva, their spirits remained.
I never put much thought to these ghosts... I think you have a real point. Your videos really help making conections I never made before. So yeah I think there really could be a connection between the nealing figures on Lua and killed warframes. I still wonder what our today warframes are though.. I mean not the prime ones. We build them on our ship.. do they have a soul? With Umbra we saw that at least the original frames were people before they got transformed.. And Umbra still has a will of his own and I'm sure also a soul
As I understand it, those are supposed to be more like drones, but the primes and umbra without question. And consider the base frames we currently have that don't have primes all have a progenitor with a soul that's in question as well. I'm glad you enjoyed the video, it's still only a theory but I think there are some real connections that could make this correct in the end. I guess time will tell, hopefully at least!
I think that stalker is, or was, a tenno. Turned dark. Gone rouge. It would explain why he seemingly has powers and yet can still go the the void, where as sentiants cant. If he at one point went after the frames used in the zenuka project it would explain why we are called betrayer. But what if stalker has a reason for doing this? If he was once tenno he must have had a warframe at one point. Or did he? Iirc rell didnt have a frame yet he was also a forgotten tenno.
If the soul is 'separable', allowing the manifestation of a specter without a head, then that begs the question of what is the origin of the body, and what are they still doing? Most of them seem to be doing *something*, not just wandering aimlessly around the halls crowding up the place. You can make an easy-enough conclusion that the head is the part of the 'complete' warframe soul that belonged to the warrior that existed before they were turned into a warframe (think Isaah's father, who was turned into Umbra). Then what's the body? The closest thing that could match would be, well, the only remaining component that makes the warframes living things: the Helminth. The infestation is rarely given a voice, but when it is, it's very clearly a hivemind: possibly several minds either based on strain and/or proximity. So when this new, rogue infestation (or, body) is made subservient to the warrior (or, mind), it's cut off from its brood, branded to serve its purpose under the direction of the mind. So when those two are severed, what happens to them? Aside from Umbra, we've never seen the soul of the 'mind' post-mortum. It could be that they accept their release and pass on to whatever makes up the afterlife in this setting. The body, though, disconnected from the mind, may find solace in returning to a hive. tl;dr- I think the beheaded warframe ghosts are the warped spirits of Helminth organisms deciding to stick around Lua and fulfill a hive-like greater calling.
Perhaps when Lua was placed into the Void, the souls of the Tenno already dead due to the Old War and such were drawn to Lua because of their previous life, therefore making Lua into a sort of "Heaven" to the lost souls. When Lua was placed back into real space, those souls also came with?
That's why I made the video! Hopefully one of us will come across some piece of lore or something that will tie it all together but at least now you'll be looking for things when you play! Mission accomplished!
Upon watching thedevstream and finding out about savegoth, I've came to the conclusion that those are lost souls, most likely the souls of the cephalons. Maybe Savegoth was a friend of ordis' and aided him in the slaughter of "THE SEVEN". And maybe savegoth died and at the same time he wasn't able to return their souls to the sevens now lifeless bodies. And maybe the stalker was their too, as a tenno accompanying Ordis(Ordo) and Savegoth. And the reason why he hates the tenno is because he had to sit and watch "THE SEVEN" die.
stallorD has 3 videos that explains kinda what is a soul in warframe they what we know kuva void and sentient also the alongated arm is actually a stupid multi purpose tool like the sonic screwdriver from doctor who and to this day i still don't get the point of making as part of the arm
I'll have to look that up because I feel like Albrecht Entrati may have retconned that. Like, why wouldn't he have it too, especially if people like Ballas and Nihil both do. Regardless, I could be wrong obviously. I'll dig through his videos. It's been a while, I could use a reason to binge his channel again!
What if they are Vor's victims? Vor been hunting warframe before we woke up. He use the ascaris device, quote on warframe wiki "works by infiltrating the host's nervous system, slowly taking over their physiology until the controller fully commands the victim." and quote: "Captain Vor's Ascaris possesses a fail-safe system against tampering however, making the implanted parasite detonate and kill its host unless its controller, Captain Vor, is killed." I think there are warframes before us tried to remove the device but with the wrong tool. When the ascaris is taking over, the warframe experience headache occasionally. Also taking over nervous system could mean taking over the head and Vor just make warframe's head go boom if they tamper with the device.
Your new video reignited my warframe lore enthusiasm and I watched other warframe stuff so I wonder are you familiar with the entrati lore or to be more precise the memories of Albrecht Entrati? Starlord put a video togehter with all 8 parts ( I haven't played through the entrati an necraloid syndicates myself so I'm very gratefull). I would really want to know what you think about that stuff and what connections you will make
Perhaps the Tenno didn't have time to sever the transference, or forgot that they weren't their warframe, and as such believed so absolutely that they died when the Stalker beheaded them, that they did. Kind of like that scene in Evangelion when Shinji first pilots, and forgets that he isn't his mech and ends up thinking that he's feeling the pain the mech is when it's being torn apart until he's reminded otherwise.
I think the kneeling ghosts have the elongated Orokin arm? Also not especially sure they’re headless - merely that they’re heads are fainter. My interpretation is that those spectres are Oro which haven’t been transferred into a new body given the collapse of the empire. It’s strongly suggested that Continuity doesn’t have to happen instantly, so these are effectively lost Oro waiting for a body that’ll never come.
Idea: Now that the Sentients Have adapted to Our Warframes, What Do We Do To Fend off other Attacks In The New War? (thinking That the Sentients well adapt to NecroMechs Soon)
I hope they do something more with the operator combat. I love using mine and the dynamic of being able to switch back and forth so quickly is one of my favorite mechanics in game!!
@@TheDsIEGE I hope what they are pushing for with the mechs is giving you different tools to use for different situations. For example you would go do something in your warframe and then seamlessly transition to your mech or operator to fight the sentients (or whatever else), depending on the situation presented.
I kinda want a stalker origin story/quest. What is he, why he is doing these things, and how is he able to do these things. This has so much potential for a good story and world building.
I do think it's possible for tenno do die with their warframes, it makes sense as in the mirage quest the lotus makes a big deal about saving mirage: Why try to save mirage if the tenno themselves where completely safe if they died? What would of happened if vor took control of you in the vors prize quest when it was just a single warframe that you could cut the transference stream to? Why do you think you game over after 5 times? I think it's very possible to kill a tenno through their warframe. I think the original wireframes have people inside of them, but I don't think the ones we build at the foundry are infested humans, but rather homunculi build atom by atom. Umbra was built by a super ordis from the remnants of his corpse so it doesn't count. For an interesting look about about transferrence you could look at the naberus decoration: It wouldn't make sense to the story if the souls remained inside the body after transference. Also How did the stalker get into our ship? and why didn't ordis stop him? It was because he could be classified as an "operator." and ordis lets the operator onboard. I think the stalker was an adult that used transference but got stuck in a warframe. that's why he knows how to kill tenno.
The elongation of the arm (in the orokin culture), from what i've read is a form of punishment. Since the Orokin favor symmetry over everything. The elongated arm was a spit in the face to those who it was "bestowed" upon. Please correct me if im wrong
We know the continuity from one body to a new one was used by the council and the queens, but do we know if anyone else had the ability to transfer souls through bodies? I feel these specters could be the side effect of kuva consumption but dying before you could transfer. Your soul persists, but where does it go without a new body? Without a body that ages, but the power to exist after death, would they be stuck in a prison of their own making? A body that can't die? Or in a state that can't change without outside help?
I think that these that were considered Orokin were able to use transference. At the last halloween event we got that decoration from the entrati grandmother with the naberus tale.. I think the orokin mentioned in this story weren't connected to the council or anything.
@@Nebulanoctis then could the spirits be those orokin at the ceremony where the tenno betrayed the orokin? How far fetched that some of those orokin were old and celebrating the end of the war which a change into a new body? consumption of red kuva before they went to the ceremony to get it out of the way? idk
@@PowerTower I wouldn't say it's impossible.. not a lot is anyway at this point but I think it's improbable. I think the spirits aren't tall enough to be high class orokin. They all seemed rather big
Considering that the Tenno are awake, we have no record of any of them being killed. We assume that during the Second Dream, all Tenno eventually woke up. Hence we see the stalker chase us down during missions to end us. But it is possible that some Tenno woke up early and controlled these warframes and were beheaded by Stalker, hence we see ghosts with no heads. I believe it to be the Tenno, most likely is them. I was very unsettled by the reservoir on Lua after the Sec. Dream quest. It looked damaged, almost destroyed. I still have unanswered questions to that. It is possible that the Stalker has killed some Tenno durning their missions. For instance, if I play a spy mission, knowing that I have assassinated a boss, like Vor, Stalker chases me down like he's doing to date, and I fail to shake him off, them he decides to beheads me. Due to the Transference, when the warframe dies, I die too. It might be possible that the Stalker has some kind of Transference Jammer that causes the Tenno to teleport straight to where the Warframe is then beheads the Tenno and the warframe at the same time. That's just my two cents.
I agree with you! It's an aspect of the game that really doesn't get discussed much but their are a few interesting things to consider when it comes to "true death" as it pertains to warframes and tenno. Consider this though... If my theory is correct, it's very possible that the stalker purposely doesn't kill like he did before, because at that moment, he actually cares that it's kids, because technically after that when we do die to him, it's just a quick death that we can revive from. That could be on purpose. Maybe the way he kills after that moment isn't as "forever" as a beheading. It's quite possible that he completes his job just enough to get the justice he feels is necessary, but not enough to truly kill us, which is why he's never surprised to see the same tenno over and over even after he's "killed" them multiple times. It's very possible that he's torn over what he's doing and maybe what he even is. I'm still thinking at some point that we will "ease his pain" and it's possible he may even become one of our frames in the end. All just a theory but... I think it's possible.
@@TheDsIEGE I guess Stalker never realized that it's actually a real Tenno, an acutual human being that is controlling the warframe. That's why he hesitated to kill during SD. That should speak volumes. Does he feel confused somehow about the Tenno and where he stands with them? He definitely does, hence Hunhow saw the desperation in Stalker to be just like the Tenno. That's why it was easy for Hunhow to manipulate him into going to a killing spree against the Tenno. Does he feel that he might be rejected again by the Tenno, assuming they did before? Very likely It baffles me how DE is silent about this with no new lore to explain exactly what is going on, and it's frustrating a lot of fans who care so much about the lore of the game. Now you have people, including me, developing fan lores for warframe since DE is not bothered about new lore whatsoever.
@@TheDsIEGE i would like to see the stalker as an ally not a frame because he does have his own will. I am also wondering about the reservoir on lua.. In The SD quest we only open 1 pod (i think) and leave the others. After some time when i play lua missions i sometimes see a reservoir completely destroyed as if something came and destroyed it. Could it be that the stalker is destroying different reservoirs to prevent some tenno from awakening?
@@neromalave4853 I don't think Rell is completely dead, considering that the Oro (the soul) exists and has the potential to resurrect itself. Unless executed by the Jade Light, it's quite impossible for the Oro or Half-dead souls to exist.
I dont know to me, its like the orokin knew they were going to lose, they had the transcendence technology, they fled into another plane and we see their echo
4:55 Aren't these ghosts using the same animation that is used before we could walking around in operator mode and they only popped out to shoot a beam before leaving again? Could add to the theory if it is.
I think that a detail many of us forget, seeing as we have seen the events unfold, is that it wasn't common knowledge that the "Tenno" refers to the sentience behind the warframe, aka the operator. Most common folk of the orokin era and even in our contemporary origin system would see "Tenno" and "warframe" as synonymous for the same thing.
Imagine their face when they find out.
@@albino478gaming5 I doubt many will because those who find out don't tend to live very long
"Did u die to the stalker on your first encounter"
Me:like 50 times yes
Well then... that could be you!
@@TheDsIEGE yea probbaly i was just grinding limbo and the stalker appers like sup
@@godofpotatos96 4 + 2 + E = Long suffering but possibly killing the Stalker XD
I feel that!!!
I surprisingly never encountered the stalker coming after me till after I had done the Second Dream questline and I did it with a dude that kept killing stalker so none of the ghosts can be me by that theory then. Don't ask me how I never encountered the stalker until I did the quest and after, I honestly do not know, but I did start playing right after Second Dream had dropped and went straight for it as quick as possible as people kept getting angry about me being the noob that they could not give spoilers too.... Maybe thats it?
you have the clip right there in the video where Hunhow says "You cut their heads off and they rise again" - making it pretty obvious that the tenno does not die w/ the warframe in that scenario. That however just because we beat the stalker in our orbiters, doesn't mean every tenno did. those could be tenno ghosts that just lost their heads at the end of second dream. NO NEW DREAMS FOR YOU!
though even after you would behead an operator, they would not truly be dead (unless the killer also possessed Oro, which the stalker probably does not)
Or more likely, the Warframes who died fully because Tenno didn't have enough Oro left to revive it (like mission failure upon running out of revives)
The Tenno who didn't yet know the revelations from The Second Dream would have the "die in the matrix then die in real life" happen to them and become ghosts like these.
Genuinely thought this video was about the giant ghost faces in Lua. Found a ruined room with 3 giant pillars, middle one had a blue face appear and disappear. Great content!
Not sure if someone else has mentioned this, but there is one more "ghost" on Lua. Lua Rescue - when you get to the jail, watch from a bit afar the console that is right in front of the trapdoor to the inner sanctum (the room with the consoles to they void portals, behind one of which is the rescue target). There is one ghost manning that console. It just stands there, doing nothing, except seemingly trying to unlock the console.
I've never been here for a new siege video, I love to see it😊
Welcome!!! I hope you enjoy it!
same here
Welcome to the "oro of surah" brother
Same dude. Same
DE, we need a new cinematic quest !
We really do!!!!
When DsIEGE says "I have a theory", then I will be threre instantly. Neat video.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Next week's will be better. ;)
ON JAH BRO, I've never been on youtube so long, coz I was watching some warframe lore to understand the game as a switch player, and I kept searching for lore finally finding some one who know what he's talking about and spends time explaining ever topic if warframe in detail, I've been here for more than 3hours now...
"Moons haunted"
Yeah i had a similar idea.
Her legs were scattered to the two poles of the moon, twisted in a wicked position, in a field of obsidian thorns…"
-The Evisceration of Kur-skan the Heretic, V
I remember getting spooked by these , this is ghe video I was looking for
Hmm, and about the stalkers equipment (disregarding war) dread has (as far as i'm aware) the highest slash of any bow, description reads "good for beheading", scythe finishers, like the hate's, have a animation you could interpret as beheading as well, similarly to i think heavy blades (barely use heavy blades, so not fully certain) so those could be nods to the stalker liking to do that.
This video is quite "Ultraluminary".......... also I never noticed the ghost have no heads.
You know... I didn't either and that's what got me thinking about making the video. Obviously I could be wrong but there are a few context clues I think at least lend themselves to my theory. We'll see what everyone else says in the end!
@@TheDsIEGE i can't quite be sure they are missing heads, based on how skinny/shriveled the body and other extremities are; so could be a small shrunken head, or the head isn't fully beheaded but instead cut just above where the lower jaw would be.
Either way doesn't change the potentiality of the idea.
i've always thought that that was the case since even the bodies floating are similar to pre full control tenno floating. as always, great vid
Thank you, and yeah, when you take a second to really check them out... they just look awfully similar.
The Stalker was clearly still in daubt when he was trying to kill us in our orbitor. It was even in Hunhows dialog
The question I have is about the blue kuva we learned about from naverous. It was kind of thrown at us and I haven’t seen any one acknowledge it.
based on how it was explained during the event that it was basically a novelty the orokin would use to temporarily be in a different body for whatever reason they wanted to do it. That’s how I see it personally
I'll add that to my list of things to check out.
that trinket and its story is actually my favorite prize from the event, although I'll admit Exodia Contagion gets a lot more use...
I can connect the “Shadow” Stalker’s codex to the Naga drums. Remember Octavia’s anthem? TAIR THEM UP
And how our Warframe was able to move must’ve been the tenno spying on the Stalker using Loki. The light emanating around Stalker after the War was broken still looks like that extracting light when capturing a target. Is someone els “walking in the shadows”?
I guess that's the real question that needs to be answered at this point...
@@TheDsIEGE how convenience the oro are on the "Music Room"... Or was it...?
The problem with 7:20 is that we regularily (at least recently) have started getting kicked out of piloting our warframes because of a number of different things. i highly doubt killing the warframe would cause the Tenno to die as well considering that really doesn't seem to be how transference works
4:39 i think they are. As we see in the second dream as stalker chokes us, the warframe breaks The War. This could be written down as just you temporarily controlling it, but I dont think so. As we see in The call of the tempestaari, sevagoth's shadow exists on its own, presumibly without being comtrolled by a tenno. In sevagoth's case, what woke his consciouness up is well... time. He was believed to be lost. So he had plenty of time to do it. What could have woken up our frame in the Second Dream? I am not sure, but I have an idea. It was a cry for help from us. Powerful enough to temporarily wake it up. Because as we ourselves say in The Sacrifice quest: " Our minds are linked now". Sure, Umbra is different, but at the end they were Both just people, dax warriors, transformed by the infestation. They are emptied of memories, all traces of their previous personality pretty much gone(Technically their memories are still there, but nearly impossible to recall, except umbra because he has the memory of him being forced to kill his son just to torture him). In short, they are empty vessels created for us from normal people using the infestation.
The desktop notifcation for this video got me killed in Halo....so grats on being the first youtuber to kill me in halo LOL. Also, really cool video!
I apologize for that, it wasn't my intention but... I'm glad you decided to come and check the video out all the same!!!
Hmmm, I never thought about what happens to souls during continuity... it is something very interesting to think about.
As for the ghost, I always thought that they were Orokin killed by the Tenno (The Tenno used blades to kill the Orokin, so cutting off their heads would make sense... They are bigger than most people, as Orokin are, and perhaps the way they kneel was just an old Orokin era way to kneel.) I assumed that only the top of the top Orokin had fancy arms though.
Hunhow also said that though warframes are cut down, more rise again, which has always made me wonder if Tenno just lose the frames, not their lives. He also went through a lot of trouble to kill the Operators directally on Lua, meaning perhaps killing the warframes wouldn't 'cut' it (is that a pun???). But then again, it has been mentioned that we the 'Operators' are in danger during quests, which wouldn't make sense if we were not able to be hurt physically.
As always though, there was a lot to think about with this video, great job!
Stalker: *Kills me*
Me: *Holds X* ‘I’m back!’
I just want to point out that in that cinematic, Stalker or Hunhow comment on the futility of killing them once and again, and that they keep coming back
So I think that Loki was fine after all
I might be a month late as this is my second comment to this video, but I have a new theory.
"Who nurtures you in your times of rest? Who restores your battle-torn frame, day after day after day? Whose milk enriches your kindred flesh with endless strength and vigor? It can only be me." - Helminth
This explains why the Warframes move on their own, influenced by the Helminth and not the void or the Tenno, or any other Oro (only the ones possessing the ability of Transference to Warframes, which are only the Tenno, unless another individual gains access to Transference Technology to do this like the Stalker, for instance).
This also explains why the individuals introduced to the technocyte helminth to form Warframes might have died due to it, hence we see ghosts on lua. Remember, these individuals introduced to the Technocyte before becoming Warframes, did not get exposure to the void, hence they can't be Oros. Anyone who dies without exposure to the Void don't get a chance to resurrection, hence they become Ghosts instead of Oro. Those are lost souls/ghosts that were forced out of their bodies by the Helminth in order to form the Warframes on Lua. That is where the Technocyte was experimented, on Lua. So it does make sense why there are ghosts on Lua, the former individuals who died due to the Technocyte, hence the Warframes are lifeless once exited by the Tenno via Transference. Umbra is an exception to this as he is fitted with a Transference bolt.
During the Second Dream, the warframe was able to tear the War blade in two by itself (the Tenno was not in control), because at that moment, it was the Helminth that had been controlling the warframe in order to save the Tenno. For some reason, the Helminth cares for the Tenno somehow, which might imply that the Helminth depends on the Tenno for something, which at the moment we can't tell what exactly.
As to why the ghosts don't have heads may be just a decision made by DE to leave them headless but if you have an idea, you can interject. I know that in my previous comment, I said that it might be the Tenno that might be beheaded by the Stalker or the Orokin, but I highly doubt it, because the Tenno have an Oro, which means that they can survive death. So far, no Tenno actually died in the hands of the Stalker except the Warframes rendered useless by him.
Yeah i died 3 times during second encounter at my ship and 1 time at first encounter
Well, have a visit to lua sometime and say hello to yourself. I did.
@@TheDsIEGE Thx m8
I apriciate it :))
Not headless, you can see the lower jaw, also in your vid you can see the open spinal column that Excalibur has, they're excal models with the top of the head deliberately unrendered with the ghost effect to hide the more characteristic horn. If im wrong about the lower jaw, then they likely just removed the helmet for the same reason
Sounds good my theory so far was that these where dreamstate tenno that have not yet awakened like we were in the tutorial essentially passing the time in a ghost form. Which would make even more sense when you put it together they have been defeted or never awoken and are now waiting for a new warframe to be awakened in by the lotus
I thought with orokin continuity they'd just trade souls with their new chosen body and the original persons soul would be forced into the old and dying body effectivly shortening their life, how evil...
New siege video??? Sign me the fuCK UP
Hot and Fresh, just served up for ya!
Thanks for covering this
Thanks for stopping by and checking it out!
I heard “hey y’all” I did a instant like bc I already know it’s gonna be good and I was right.
Thank you! I'm just glad it was something you enjoyed!
Hi Mr. The IEGE! I just found your channel and I'm loving it. Just wanted to chime in and tell you I think your work is great. Haven't even watched this video yet, but I'm loving working up to it. Anyways, hope you're having a good day, thank again for the content!
Decapitation doesn't *necessarily* kill a Warframe for good, Umbra was in literal pieces. And since we built him by the same method of every Warframe, it would imply we do a similar process to all the frames.
Now, a decapitated Warframe, if my theory is correct, is certainly dispatched until somone glues his head back on.
As to what happens to the Tenno that are in the frames when this happens is anyone's guess. Umbra never had a drift so when he got obliterated he didn't have a Tenno.
@TheDsIege I have a bit of a strange theory... And I am sorry, I know this might not be a good place to post it, but you just gave me the idea. It might be stupid, but I would like to share it with you, and the rest
I watched all of your videos about warframe lore and i LOVE THEM ALL... But they all made me thinking... and there is one constant thing that I notice. We have a really difficult time to actually put a time frame on things. What happened when... How long ago something happen... and so on.... So, why does the quest... where Tenno is waking up is called "Second dream"?
So.... What if... we (operators/tenno) can't remember anything and have difficulty to put things in the right time frame is because we are still... dreaming? This entire universe is just our dream. Maybe Orokin empire still exists? I mean, for the powerful super beings, so advanced, they did some extremely stupid things. Do we really think they would make a weapon of mass destruction (warframes and tenno) without some form of control?
One would think that Tenno would remember the massacre they did on Orokin... Yet they can't recall a thing. But in game, my operator do tell sometimes, when we fight infested: "We need to purge the infestation, just like we did in the old war"(or something along those lines) So he does remember some parts? But not the fact they destroyed an entire empire?
What better control then to think everything is destroyed and we live in post apocalyptic world of our own design? There is nothing left to destroy for us. So we go, do the mission, return to orbiter... Nothing to really do in such a world... And we do not feel remorse in killing so many people (Greenier and COrpus might not be the best people, but they are humanoids, sentient beings). yet they all act like it is normal to die in hundreds... They do not retreat, they do not run... they do not ask for mercy... ever... So what if second dream is not really us waking up... but actually going to deeper sleep?
Nice, finally someone throwing some lore onto this thingys
“Gives a spoiler well using umbra sunder helmet”
As always, great video. Thanks for upload.
Thank you for stopping by the channel to watch!
Awesome video can’t wait for the next one
Get ready, cause the next one out is a big one.
i think they might be remnants of cephalons. either damaged cephalons who have lost their structure and become ghosts stuck frozen or floating around, or the bits left over from the process of creating a cephalon (no ghost head = it was magically cut off and stuck into the geometric cephalon structure that can interface with machinery)
I lost your channel and have not been able to find your channel for like a year and I finally found it
The point is... you found me. That's all that matters!
Well that’s just a therory...A FRAME THEORY!!!
Hunhow wanted ti know where "the tenno heart" was hidden. He didn't know were Lua was and set up the bait to get the know from the Lotus through us. I played the operator quests with every frame.
Within the tale of Naberus as recounted by Grandmother, we do catch a glimpse of continuity post transfer, in the form of the temporary, "blue-kuva". The three who partook in the act, were described to have just control over the body. We do not know however how the consciousness of the original fairs.
The "long arms" of the orokin may be a symptom of their long presence in their body. Ancients for example have a long arm they use to attack, and have been long theorized to be orokin infested. In the Granum reliefs, the orokin that took Parvos's hand all had equal length arms.
Could be some kind of Transferrance ghost or reflections of dead Tenno (like you suggested). I don't recall seeing anything interact with them or acknowledge their existence.
Maybe only we can see them?
I guess it's kinda like that giant finger on the Railjack. None of the crew when docked interact with it and even our good ol Cephalon Cy literally can't compute that anything is there.
The Void is one trippy drug.
My theory is, as void is embodiment of past, present and future aspect of the Universe, and Lua was in void for a long time, it might be the some other timeline, where the Warframe or humans or sentients working and its leaking into this timeline. Secondly In Night of Nabarus where Grandma tells us a story, we clearly see the continuity get performed with red and blue kuva.
That umbra stalker cosplay is amazing
You like that? He looks good if you ask me!
I believe they are our fellow Dreamers, just not yet awakened.
They could very well be...
which dream of whom?
Shit, I've never realized they had no heads! I used to believe they were massacred Orokins but yeah, now the theory with the Stalker's victims seems really true to life. So, maybe if the tenno is transferred into a warframe and this warframe is decapitated, the tenno is trapped inside, and when the tenno dies, the ghost keeps the image of the warframe. This all is a bit hard to fit into the lore but hey, you never know what twist is waiting at the next corner :D
P.S. Because of the Duviri Paradox trailer I have a stupid theory that all this time the tenno have been like specters of themselves and later we will find their real bodies slowly aging in the void.
P.P.S. Really like your theory videos. They remind me why I love this game ^_^
Always an amazing video omg love it
Hey listening to ur theories opens up a whole new world of ideas also did u notice the necramech had a slightly similar voice to nihil
If you are talking about the necramech in the Heart of Deimos quest, it was definitely Grandma. Just listen to her intonations and then compare them with the necratalk. When you hear them one by one, the resemblance is striking :D
If those are souls of dead Tenno, then some of them coming together to try to return as a death knight themed warframe would be badass, though unlikely
OOOOOOOOOOOOOO... I like that idea A LOT!
TheDsIEGE thanks, I thought it could make for a pretty good quest too. The frame could have themes of the Headless Horseman and the Dullahan as well
I'm hoping they don't screw up the duviri paradox I love time travel
ME TOO.
As long as they establish clear rules for how it works, then it should be good. If not there is a huge risk of plotholes.
@@TheDsIEGE you know how I feel about this one.
Can DE just hire you as a story writer and voice actor?
I think a Warframe is a body with power. Like ancient infested healers have healing abilities, maybe some others also had sorts of abilities tied with their body. We know that Tenno can take over bodies. Just like that they take over the dead bodies which are given some structure with armour instead of blobs unstructured of meat. The body of Umbra was not dead. That's why he has consciousness.
So glad to see a 'toober as intrigued by the lore as I am.
Hey DsIEGE. Always wonder what would happen if the operator's standing was balanced between light and dark but that operator drank the kuva at the end of the war within quest. Because that is what my space child has gone through so far in the warframe lore. Also that weird ghost figure after the operator's dash does not appear for me. Just curious ya know.
Once while I was playing on the plains of eidolon with some friends, grinding terrys to escape mote hell, I saw a kneeling headless excalibur in the gates of cetus. I was the only one who had it on screen, but my two other friends were able to see it because we were playing LAN style. We took screenshots but it's on one of those friends computers and this was years ago. Curious if anyone has seen anything similar?
Guess just put this here, if I rember right the seven was the name of the orokin leaders the tenmo killed way back when, and I was replaying the second dream and realised the pod our operator comes out of is one of seven in that room, am I reading too far into this? There's also stuff around like how there are seven different challenge rooms on lua for you to get drift mods from so maybe it's just styling
What if Natah is Margulis just kuva transitioned into a sentient body.
Dude, food for thought: Orokin had a "market" for bodies for their transference, but... They keep their "perfect flawless Orokin Body"... Why? How?
How they do this kind of possession in a body and... Morph them into their image? ... How?!
Good point. Hmmm....
@@TheDsIEGE the are call Orokin, it's in the name....
I love ur last video with the man in the wall theory
Then you're gonna REALLY love my next one, which I'll be releasing next week... Just sayin.
:)
Awesome video siege!
Thank you so much! I'm glad you liked it!
A) They are archemedians who were turned into free roaming cephalons to serve the empire, Suda being a good example showing it wasnt only used as a punishment (but now is).
B) They are the Warframes killed by stalker and so on, how and why they apear as ghost? No idea. Unlikeley to be the tenno since the second dream and chains of harrow quest show when you take fatal damage as a tenno you are taken to the void only to come back in time to try again, there is also this thing called "Oro" but "starlordD" does a good job explaining it in his video about the void.
Kinda forgot about those ghost on lua, they never semed to bother me much, it nice to talk about some old stuff before the new War
But then it wasn't fatal if they were able to just respawn again, right? I saw his video on oro and... I feel like Entrati's lore kind of puts some of the things in his videos up for debate. I'm not saying he was wrong, rather that DE may have changed certain things up...
Answer to your question: Continuity.
My thoughts on this question of yours. If they are ghosts of tenno, orokin, warframe, etc. The ghost would number into the tens of thousands if not millions. As remember lore-wise the tenno stuck revenge on a day of celebration, a day of ceremony. Most ceremonies amass a large number of the populace. On any of the system's moons and planets, Lua being no different. However, there isn't tens of thousands or millions of ghost seen roaming about. The number of ghosts are only in the dozens from what we have seen.
We also know that only the orokins performed continuity on themselves. I highly doubt an average joe got the ability to pass their soul on. Another thing to consider even on the warframe front that not all warframes require kuva to make. The only ones are Excalibur Umbra, Garuda, Harrow, Octavia, and my boy Nidus. And since Kuva is required for continuity, going on of your theory. Then those warframes made from kuva would be in this continuity state (ghosts) when... beheaded. But that doesn't hold much water.
I personally speculate that these are only orokin ghost. Who just happened to be in the middle of continuity when the tenno uprising happened. Leaving them no place to go. It has been pointed out time and time again. That the orokin only uses others as tools. Why give tools a chance to use the continuity ability? It wouldn't make sense. Plus even during the war within. That was a guarded secret. The only reason we know about it is due to Tenshin who is a Dax Soldier, sworn (use to be) to the orokin.
If anything. I feel the orokin in general epitomizes's the old Cole Porter quote.
"This rule I propose, Always have an ace in the hole. Always try to arrive at Having an ace someplace private. Always have an ace in the hole."
Hello I love ur vids and nice theroy
Thank you so much! Amazing what one can find on the moon!
People might have said that already but its probably the temporal shift effect like on spy missions of Lua
This made me think of something about the acolytes. The acolytes have warframe body but the head piece of the stalker. Maybe the decapitated warframe are then later on used by the stalker to make the acolytes. I don't know much about the acolytes tho
siege be a chad to chug kuva
also, stalker just wanted a loki neuroptics
My first playthough I dumped it but... this time, I wanted to see if it tasted like koolaid. It didn't.
Stalker is your Operator’s monstrous ID (Freud). Part of who you are/were as a child suffered fear and pain and resentment as a dangerous void being who watched your parents go insane and then were conscripted as child super-soldiers to pilot Warframes.
Margulis compartmentalized the nightmares and negativity but I think it became weaponized HATE, DESPAIR, DREAD and found a home in a rogue Warframe.
Stalker can always find you and is immune to your powers because he IS you (Jungian Shadow discussion apt here also).
Stalker and the Operator, both in black, look at their hand in exactly the same way, and even Stalker’s symbol is a twisted, nightmare version of the Lotus Symbol.
He hunts Warframes because he is a version of your subconscious that despises them for the reality they bind you to.
I always thought that maybe the ghostly apparitions were Orokin that got caught in the Moon's transfer to being hidden from view. Their bodies were destroyed in the process, but since they drank the kuva, their spirits remained.
I never put much thought to these ghosts... I think you have a real point. Your videos really help making conections I never made before. So yeah I think there really could be a connection between the nealing figures on Lua and killed warframes. I still wonder what our today warframes are though.. I mean not the prime ones. We build them on our ship.. do they have a soul? With Umbra we saw that at least the original frames were people before they got transformed.. And Umbra still has a will of his own and I'm sure also a soul
As I understand it, those are supposed to be more like drones, but the primes and umbra without question. And consider the base frames we currently have that don't have primes all have a progenitor with a soul that's in question as well. I'm glad you enjoyed the video, it's still only a theory but I think there are some real connections that could make this correct in the end. I guess time will tell, hopefully at least!
@@TheDsIEGE I really hope we will get more information in the future
Alright since I'm on vacation from work time to crack open a cold Pepsi and enjoy Siege's beautiful voice
Do it and let my dulcet tones relax you! And get some theory crafting to boot!
I think that stalker is, or was, a tenno. Turned dark. Gone rouge. It would explain why he seemingly has powers and yet can still go the the void, where as sentiants cant. If he at one point went after the frames used in the zenuka project it would explain why we are called betrayer. But what if stalker has a reason for doing this? If he was once tenno he must have had a warframe at one point. Or did he? Iirc rell didnt have a frame yet he was also a forgotten tenno.
great theory but the fact that hunhow says you sever there head yet they return states that if the warframe dies the tenno is fine
It is hinted that on our ship Stalker was controled, so when the warframe broke sword, stalker fled in confusion.
I do love seiges smoldering voice 😊
Hey, thank ya!!!
Sempi noticed me😁😁😁🤗🤗🤗
hahahahahahahahahahahaaahahahahahaaaaa
If the soul is 'separable', allowing the manifestation of a specter without a head, then that begs the question of what is the origin of the body, and what are they still doing? Most of them seem to be doing *something*, not just wandering aimlessly around the halls crowding up the place.
You can make an easy-enough conclusion that the head is the part of the 'complete' warframe soul that belonged to the warrior that existed before they were turned into a warframe (think Isaah's father, who was turned into Umbra).
Then what's the body? The closest thing that could match would be, well, the only remaining component that makes the warframes living things: the Helminth.
The infestation is rarely given a voice, but when it is, it's very clearly a hivemind: possibly several minds either based on strain and/or proximity.
So when this new, rogue infestation (or, body) is made subservient to the warrior (or, mind), it's cut off from its brood, branded to serve its purpose under the direction of the mind.
So when those two are severed, what happens to them?
Aside from Umbra, we've never seen the soul of the 'mind' post-mortum. It could be that they accept their release and pass on to whatever makes up the afterlife in this setting. The body, though, disconnected from the mind, may find solace in returning to a hive.
tl;dr- I think the beheaded warframe ghosts are the warped spirits of Helminth organisms deciding to stick around Lua and fulfill a hive-like greater calling.
Perhaps when Lua was placed into the Void, the souls of the Tenno already dead due to the Old War and such were drawn to Lua because of their previous life, therefore making Lua into a sort of "Heaven" to the lost souls. When Lua was placed back into real space, those souls also came with?
I first though those were orokin oro-s but i realized that the tenno consumed their oro-s so i dont know now you've made me wonder about it now
That's why I made the video! Hopefully one of us will come across some piece of lore or something that will tie it all together but at least now you'll be looking for things when you play! Mission accomplished!
Upon watching thedevstream and finding out about savegoth, I've came to the conclusion that those are lost souls, most likely the souls of the cephalons. Maybe Savegoth was a friend of ordis' and aided him in the slaughter of "THE SEVEN". And maybe savegoth died and at the same time he wasn't able to return their souls to the sevens now lifeless bodies. And maybe the stalker was their too, as a tenno accompanying Ordis(Ordo) and Savegoth. And the reason why he hates the tenno is because he had to sit and watch "THE SEVEN" die.
stallorD has 3 videos that explains kinda what is a soul in warframe they what we know kuva void and sentient also the alongated arm is actually a stupid multi purpose tool like the sonic screwdriver from doctor who and to this day i still don't get the point of making as part of the arm
I'll have to look that up because I feel like Albrecht Entrati may have retconned that. Like, why wouldn't he have it too, especially if people like Ballas and Nihil both do. Regardless, I could be wrong obviously. I'll dig through his videos. It's been a while, I could use a reason to binge his channel again!
What if they are Vor's victims? Vor been hunting warframe before we woke up. He use the ascaris device, quote on warframe wiki "works by infiltrating the host's nervous system, slowly taking over their physiology until the controller fully commands the victim." and quote: "Captain Vor's Ascaris possesses a fail-safe system against tampering however, making the implanted parasite detonate and kill its host unless its controller, Captain Vor, is killed." I think there are warframes before us tried to remove the device but with the wrong tool.
When the ascaris is taking over, the warframe experience headache occasionally. Also taking over nervous system could mean taking over the head and Vor just make warframe's head go boom if they tamper with the device.
Your new video reignited my warframe lore enthusiasm and I watched other warframe stuff so I wonder are you familiar with the entrati lore or to be more precise the memories of Albrecht Entrati? Starlord put a video togehter with all 8 parts ( I haven't played through the entrati an necraloid syndicates myself so I'm very gratefull). I would really want to know what you think about that stuff and what connections you will make
I am and will be doing a deep dive on it soon. That being said, there's a few other things I want to share with you before that...
@@TheDsIEGE I ca't wait to se them
Perhaps the Tenno didn't have time to sever the transference, or forgot that they weren't their warframe, and as such believed so absolutely that they died when the Stalker beheaded them, that they did. Kind of like that scene in Evangelion when Shinji first pilots, and forgets that he isn't his mech and ends up thinking that he's feeling the pain the mech is when it's being torn apart until he's reminded otherwise.
I think the kneeling ghosts have the elongated Orokin arm? Also not especially sure they’re headless - merely that they’re heads are fainter. My interpretation is that those spectres are Oro which haven’t been transferred into a new body given the collapse of the empire. It’s strongly suggested that Continuity doesn’t have to happen instantly, so these are effectively lost Oro waiting for a body that’ll never come.
Take a look close the next time you're on lua. They definitely don't have heads.
Will do!
Idea: Now that the Sentients Have adapted to Our Warframes, What Do We Do To Fend off other Attacks In The New War? (thinking That the Sentients well adapt to NecroMechs Soon)
I have no stinking clue. I'm just hoping DE doesn't write themselves into a hole, lol...
We train the teno at the CONCLAVE
I doubt they will be able to disable our operator though. So even if they do, we will still have a chance.
I hope they do something more with the operator combat. I love using mine and the dynamic of being able to switch back and forth so quickly is one of my favorite mechanics in game!!
@@TheDsIEGE I hope what they are pushing for with the mechs is giving you different tools to use for different situations. For example you would go do something in your warframe and then seamlessly transition to your mech or operator to fight the sentients (or whatever else), depending on the situation presented.
7 minutes and 40 seconds when he is speaking about the ghosts that is definitely an orokin ghost it has an elongated right arm
I kinda want a stalker origin story/quest. What is he, why he is doing these things, and how is he able to do these things. This has so much potential for a good story and world building.
I do think it's possible for tenno do die with their warframes, it makes sense as in the mirage quest the lotus makes a big deal about saving mirage: Why try to save mirage if the tenno themselves where completely safe if they died? What would of happened if vor took control of you in the vors prize quest when it was just a single warframe that you could cut the transference stream to? Why do you think you game over after 5 times? I think it's very possible to kill a tenno through their warframe.
I think the original wireframes have people inside of them, but I don't think the ones we build at the foundry are infested humans, but rather homunculi build atom by atom.
Umbra was built by a super ordis from the remnants of his corpse so it doesn't count.
For an interesting look about about transferrence you could look at the naberus decoration: It wouldn't make sense to the story if the souls remained inside the body after transference.
Also How did the stalker get into our ship? and why didn't ordis stop him? It was because he could be classified as an "operator." and ordis lets the operator onboard. I think the stalker was an adult that used transference but got stuck in a warframe. that's why he knows how to kill tenno.
The elongation of the arm (in the orokin culture), from what i've read is a form of punishment. Since the Orokin favor symmetry over everything. The elongated arm was a spit in the face to those who it was "bestowed" upon.
Please correct me if im wrong
Where did you read that? I did not see that anywhere and would definitely like to look it over myself.
@@TheDsIEGE in the orokin wiki and/or entries about i believe was the corrupted ancient (story).
I'm gonna have to check all that out. Thank you!
We know the continuity from one body to a new one was used by the council and the queens, but do we know if anyone else had the ability to transfer souls through bodies? I feel these specters could be the side effect of kuva consumption but dying before you could transfer. Your soul persists, but where does it go without a new body? Without a body that ages, but the power to exist after death, would they be stuck in a prison of their own making? A body that can't die? Or in a state that can't change without outside help?
Very possible! It's tough to say for certain but... I like where you're coming from!
I think that these that were considered Orokin were able to use transference. At the last halloween event we got that decoration from the entrati grandmother with the naberus tale.. I think the orokin mentioned in this story weren't connected to the council or anything.
@@Nebulanoctis then could the spirits be those orokin at the ceremony where the tenno betrayed the orokin? How far fetched that some of those orokin were old and celebrating the end of the war which a change into a new body? consumption of red kuva before they went to the ceremony to get it out of the way? idk
@@PowerTower I wouldn't say it's impossible.. not a lot is anyway at this point but I think it's improbable. I think the spirits aren't tall enough to be high class orokin. They all seemed rather big
Considering that the Tenno are awake, we have no record of any of them being killed. We assume that during the Second Dream, all Tenno eventually woke up. Hence we see the stalker chase us down during missions to end us. But it is possible that some Tenno woke up early and controlled these warframes and were beheaded by Stalker, hence we see ghosts with no heads. I believe it to be the Tenno, most likely is them.
I was very unsettled by the reservoir on Lua after the Sec. Dream quest. It looked damaged, almost destroyed. I still have unanswered questions to that.
It is possible that the Stalker has killed some Tenno durning their missions. For instance, if I play a spy mission, knowing that I have assassinated a boss, like Vor, Stalker chases me down like he's doing to date, and I fail to shake him off, them he decides to beheads me. Due to the Transference, when the warframe dies, I die too. It might be possible that the Stalker has some kind of Transference Jammer that causes the Tenno to teleport straight to where the Warframe is then beheads the Tenno and the warframe at the same time.
That's just my two cents.
I agree with you! It's an aspect of the game that really doesn't get discussed much but their are a few interesting things to consider when it comes to "true death" as it pertains to warframes and tenno. Consider this though... If my theory is correct, it's very possible that the stalker purposely doesn't kill like he did before, because at that moment, he actually cares that it's kids, because technically after that when we do die to him, it's just a quick death that we can revive from. That could be on purpose. Maybe the way he kills after that moment isn't as "forever" as a beheading. It's quite possible that he completes his job just enough to get the justice he feels is necessary, but not enough to truly kill us, which is why he's never surprised to see the same tenno over and over even after he's "killed" them multiple times. It's very possible that he's torn over what he's doing and maybe what he even is. I'm still thinking at some point that we will "ease his pain" and it's possible he may even become one of our frames in the end. All just a theory but... I think it's possible.
@@TheDsIEGE I guess Stalker never realized that it's actually a real Tenno, an acutual human being that is controlling the warframe. That's why he hesitated to kill during SD. That should speak volumes.
Does he feel confused somehow about the Tenno and where he stands with them? He definitely does, hence Hunhow saw the desperation in Stalker to be just like the Tenno. That's why it was easy for Hunhow to manipulate him into going to a killing spree against the Tenno. Does he feel that he might be rejected again by the Tenno, assuming they did before? Very likely
It baffles me how DE is silent about this with no new lore to explain exactly what is going on, and it's frustrating a lot of fans who care so much about the lore of the game. Now you have people, including me, developing fan lores for warframe since DE is not bothered about new lore whatsoever.
@@TheDsIEGE i would like to see the stalker as an ally not a frame because he does have his own will.
I am also wondering about the reservoir on lua..
In The SD quest we only open 1 pod (i think) and leave the others. After some time when i play lua missions i sometimes see a reservoir completely destroyed as if something came and destroyed it.
Could it be that the stalker is destroying different reservoirs to prevent some tenno from awakening?
Well did rel die?
@@neromalave4853 I don't think Rell is completely dead, considering that the Oro (the soul) exists and has the potential to resurrect itself. Unless executed by the Jade Light, it's quite impossible for the Oro or Half-dead souls to exist.
How do the acolytes fit into this theory though? Since every acolyte member is a different frame with a Stalker head and all.
I dont know to me, its like the orokin knew they were going to lose, they had the transcendence technology, they fled into another plane and we see their echo
Wow this does make sense u could be right
It's just an observation but I feel like there's definitely some evidence to support it, you know?
4:55 Aren't these ghosts using the same animation that is used before we could walking around in operator mode and they only popped out to shoot a beam before leaving again? Could add to the theory if it is.
That's a damn fine point... Maybe that's where they pulled those models directly from! Nice catch!
Good one bro...
How do you get that Sentient statue in your Orbiter I Always wonder
What outfit are you using for your back/white excal umbra?
I always wanted to know more about those ghosts. I thought they maybe where part of the systems like robots or Cephalon but with no consciousness.
I feel this has more to do with chains of harrow "ghosts" caused by transferance feedback as Lotus said