This would be like the movie “Air” except how WB flopped. Ben can direct this one too…😂😂😂. He can explain why he stopped being Batman and disappointed fans who like his version…
I’ll never experience another moment like watching Endgame in a packed IMAX theater. Cap grabbing the hammer is my favorite moment in film history ever now.
Kudos for this Flashpoint idea. I'm really enjoying the free form feel of The News with Dan. It was a really smart move to split this from Charts with Dan.
The DCAU that started in 1992 with Batman The animated series and ended with Justice League Unlimited showed how to streamline and modernize a vast Comic Book universe for a general audience. So of course WB ignored that and want grim dark making everyone version of Batman. The MCU and Kevin Feige seem to be the ones who learned from it.
Amen! This comment needs more likes on it! It's amazing that animation producers/writers could figure out how to have all these characters work together, yet a "major" movie studio couldn't.
What did they ignore? Justice League Threw Everyone Together to stop an Invasion The Only Character We Knew before that Were Batman, Superman, Flash (From a Guest appearance) and Green Lantern (From another Guest Appearance and it was a different guy) Everyone else was New to the Universe. That's Exactly what Snyder did. Superman origin in MoS, Bruce and Diana were introduced in BvS (Batman Origin Told), Flash showed up for a Cameo in Suicide Squad (Harley's Origin told), Wonder Woman Solo where her Origin Story told, Arthur Flash and Cyborg in JL where Cyborgs Origin is Told, then Aquaman solo where his is told. Flash was supposed to be around this time but DC and Warners kept Dicking Around. DCEU was organic with Every movie naturally Connected until Warners got cold feet cause they weren't getting enough Dough and then they weren't anymore. You mean to tell me there's a Giant tidal wave heading for shore and superman's not trying to Stop it? COME ON! Tee JL should have been in Aquaman but Warners chickened out. The problem wasn't Snyder it was Warners and DC.
You know who else is ignoring material that would have made good movies? Disney Star Wars. Even if we only consider the new Marvel material, there is some REALLY good stuff there from which good TV series and good movies could have been adapted. The Darth Vader stuff by Kieron Gillen and Charles Soule are just 2 examples.
@@Fenris30 Lol I think comparing two multiseason cartoons as equivalent to Batfleck showing up in BvS is a little misleading. Heck, that guest appearance of the Flash is more time than WW's characterization in BvS.
@@rubaiyat300 Not really, Flash only showed up in one episode as did Aquaman. Hell most of the time they had completely different personalities in their one appearance then they did on the JL show, so it's not like they actually respected continuity. As for Diana my take is Did she help out in spite of wanting to stay hidden? That's characterization enough. It's called Heroism.
I feel like a big thing that you didn’t really bring up that I felt like didn’t help things was the acquisition of Time Warner by AT&T. One of the apparent reasons why Justice League wasn’t delayed despite all of the reshoots was because the then executives at WB was trying to keep the potential bonuses from the acquisition as it was originally set to close around that time (that obviously didn’t happen, because the DOJ sued to try to stop the deal). AT&T effectively nearly destroyed WB for the sake of creating a Netflix competitor (HBO Max), with the day and date hybrid release strategy effectively being the straw that broke the camel’s back where AT&T realized they couldn’t keep pumping money into supporting HBO Max (partially because they were in deep debt because of all the acquisitions they’ve done). I kinda want to see the alternative universe where AT&T didn’t buy Time Warner, just to see what could have happened to the DCEU.
That’s not just AT&T though, that’s also WB. Also, Justice League was releasing in a time that Synder bowed out due to a family tragedy, (nothing to do with the companies) and against the backdrop BvS and Suicide Squad receiving heavy criticism. Sure, there’s still WW, but that was the only true saving grace for them at the time. The production of Justice League was besieged by a myriad of problems, not just the acquisition.
This might sound odd, but your show always provides me with a bit of comfort. Right now I’m dealing with two very close family members suffering from illness and watching your show i between caring for them has really been a blessing for me. Thank you for providing this content and providing a bit of escape ❤
I was literally just discussing this with my boyfriend last night - their mistake was trying to introduce the Justice League WAY before establishing them as separate, good characters that we could root for. They wanted so bad to be the MCU but seemed to miss that the MCU built up some of their characters with individual movies before throwing them all together. It's too late now to fix their mistakes, and it's so sad.
Honest question though; why is having individual movies before the team up movie necessary? Isn’t that exactly copying the way Marvel did it? LotR didn’t need individual movies for multiple characters either. You can introduce them in a team up movie IF done well. By the way Zack envisioned it; introducing them in Justice League; giving them a reason to unite you would have been hyped to check out their solo films. That was the plan.
I agree, it was craxzy that we got a Justice League movie, before a Flash and Aquaman solo movie. Also the fact Superman was not in most of the movie didnt help either
@@KrustydaClown THANK YOU!! This is it. Copying marvel was not the way... WB was donig something different in tone and construction and it was gonna be glorious... Alas...
@Djrobinv you have a point! I guess all in all, it wasn't executed well. Would it have made a difference if Wonder Woman came out before Justice League? Who knows? But they could have done something amazing and they fumbled so badly.
@@KaitTheUnfunny I think Wonder Woman was needed because she served a purpose in setting up the Justice League. So we needed to care for her already. That’s why she was already in BvS. What the fumble, in my opinion, here was, as much as I like the Ultimate Edition of BvS, is you can’t have a Man of Steel sequel, with huge ramifications for the character, a Batman introduction film, which sets up a huge conflict for the character (the “broken” bat and abandoning the no killing rule), mixing those stories up ánd introduce the Justice League. It was too much story for one film, which is why in the end the lead up to Justice League felt rushed. If they kept the slate the same but split BvS into two, maybe even three seperate films; the continuation of becoming the Superman, introducing the Bat and having them clash in the third one the lead-up to Justice League would’ve been perfect in my opinion. Then you could introduce Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg perfectly fine in Justice League. Cyborg’s story, for example, in Zack Snyder’s Justice League shows you how well you could do an origin story and having it tied to the team-up. It’s because of the team seeing his value that he becomes a superhero. I was hyped for more Cyborg after I watched Zack Snyder’s Justice League and that would’ve been perfect had the original slate played out.
The minute they pulled the starting gun on the new era of films, before they had finished releasing like 6 of the old era of films, they immediately devalued those films: why us anyone going to spend time and money with these characters if they know they are not going to have any more stories with them?
Exactly I had zero interest in seeing movies from a dead franchise and TBH I'm not sure about Gunns DC universe. I like his GOTG movies but didn't like TSS
@@kityhawk2000so if Disney announces tomorrow the mcu is ending after secret wars, you’re gonna stop showing up? After all, you don’t see movies from dead franchises
@@christianogden2825 It's weird cause like Harry Potter and LotR all have very well known endings and the movies that adapted them did quite well. Seems a weird take.
It’ll be interesting to see how future generations look back on the DCEU in 10-20 years and onward. Marvel was able to harness Lightning in a bottle with the successes of their Infinity Saga, and DC was just never able to keep up due to poor planning and management. The saddest part is thousands of people have worked hard on all of these DC movies, hoping to also create something beloved and memorable, and entire years-worth of passionate filmmaking can be thrown out at the whims of a producer or some executives. Great News Coverage Dan!
It still feels a little shortsighted due to the PLETHORA of solo movies he put on the slate that would all need sequels. The MCU is already having trouble juggling all its solo franchises and pacing their releases out. His schedule has a Batman solo film that doesn't get a sequel until 7 years have passed.
@@garrettcarter5622 I was assuming they had a more humble "shared vision" of standalone films, rather than trying to come out of the gate with Avengers: End Game. You're right that 7 years is a long time to wait for a sequel, if one was implied, however it could also mean that the extra time results in a better movie in the end. Afterall, Across the Spiderverse had a 5 year gap and it was well worth the wait.
Loving the content and the deep dives lately, any chance we can get an update on the writer and actors strike at some point soon feels like it’s been forever already
@@Jaclynn9 they’ll likely fire him, anyway. Especially assured after this. Rock and hard spot, for them. I’ve seen the movie, twice. It’s extremely good, but I certainly don’t blame anyone for sitting it out because of Ezra. As a character, The Flash is interesting. Famous and yet not widely proven/an evergreen superhero. That being the case, they needed to have A Good Guy to lead marketing efforts. They didn’t.
@slapyoulikeawha I went to support Keaton and the other actors, the studio. I could care less about Ezra and one person shouldn't hinder the production. He's gone after this anyways. Great fun movie.
Listening to this not only gives me major "incompetent leadership" vibes, but a persistent power struggle behind the scenes by people who are chasing money more than they are a quality product (and are willing to change at the drop of a hat to pursue such ) -- not realizing that that constant change is palpable to those on the outside and over time wear away at credibility and the desire to spend money by products from these people.
Have you seen the stan lee doc that just came out. There was archive footage of Stan Lee and DC’ CEO talking about comic books and who they are written for. The DC guy cared about the product and scoffed at stan lee TO HIS FACE about focusing on character and relating to people rather than creating a cheap adventure for profit. Its worth a watch
Yeah Stan lee wasn’t exactly the most amazing guy either though. Don’t know why he gets all the credit when ditko and Kirby were monoliths in their own right and the whole “marvel” way of telling stories was pretty absurd tbh. Once both companies hit the 80s, I really do feel like marvel lost sight of some of their characters though, while DC was really figuring them out
I agree that if DC didn't panic in the beginning they actually could have had a solid universe. The lack of trust was there from the beginning and I don't think it would have mattered who was at the helm, the studio didn't trust it's creatives. I liked some of the outlier experimental films like BOP but I also know that by then it was too late and the DCEU was too far gone to even experiment like that.
The core problem was they were trying to construct a universe out of source material that was entirely about deconstruction... Like building a castle out of rubble...
Personally, the root of the problem was marketing the DCEU as the definitive, cinematic iteration of DC comics, when it was more like an Elseworld universe. In today's oversaturated market, Zack Snyder's vision may have been seen as a breath of fresh air, but, at the time, The Dark Knight was still fresh in everyone's minds. Iron Man debuted when audiences were craving for something new and lighter that differed from the dark grittiness that marked many comic-book movies in the last decade like the X-Men films. The more balanced approach to the early MCU was seen as more comic-book accurate for this reason, and the DCEU as deconstructive. However, we see that there is a market for dark deconstructions of comic book archetypes as demonstrated by The Boys and Invincible. Zack Snyder's DCEU was simply a good idea for the wrong time.
@@zachhecita 100% agree with this. I think Zack's vision should have been his own separate thing from the very beginning and not a representation of a DC universe that is more familiar with the public. I think Gunn's new universe will be received much more positively as it will be a much more light-hearted and similar to the justice league we all know.
Also, the stakes are always the same lol, always world-ending threats and the like. If they scale it down, it’ll do much better, save the world 🌎 stuff for the team ups.
#AskDan As a movie critic and cinephile, I assume you have seen nearly every well known and beloved movie to ever come out. I was wondering, what are some of the most popular movies in history that you haven’t seen yet?? Thanks for such great content!
#AskDan Loved your alternate take on the DCEU. Going to throw in another suggestion and would love to hear your thoughts- would DC have been better off not trying to connect their films? For me personally Aquaman, Joker, The Batman, Wonder Woman etc worked largely as their own things and that DC seemed to suffer more for trying to make an extended universe happen.
#AskDan - Why do you think the DCEU has been so hesitant to marry the Arrowverse and the DCEU together and let them coexist? I don’t know why they wouldn’t have been able to help each other?
@@IanSmith2814 You’re not wrong, but I do think that both Grant Gustin and Stephen Amell had the acting chops to make the leap to the DCEU. Just my personal opinion though.
@@andrewspears12 I agree 100%! By keeping them separate I also think they alienated a lot of potential fans from the films. The Arrowverse was in its heyday by that point and the fan base certainly would've had an impact on the box office if those actors were included.
I love Grant Gustin’s work on the Flash TV show and hate that the writing/script for the show has continually worsened and wish he would have been cast or recast as the Flash in the DCEU. Miller is good and brings his own flavor, but so does Gustin!
Miller is trash and needs to go. if Johnny Depp can lose his career over unproven allegations why does this guy get to keep his career when he's been caught on tape abusing women?
How dare you say the writing was declining?!?! What about that episode where Barry felt like he had to do it all himself and then was a jerk to a team member and then later apologizes for being a jerk and learns that he has to rely on and lead his team??? And then the one where he is attacked by a speedster? You know, pretty much every single episode of the last three seasons?
At the end of the day, the story has to be able to connect and made an impact. Synder cut was better received because of how bad the Whedon version was. If the synder cut was released as planned, there’s no guarantee that it would have beef well received
Especially if it was released at 3.5 or 4 hours (I don't recall it's length, other than super long), I don't think it would have been that well received, unless it was split in 2
@@AVarStuntsThe Snyder Cut of JL was certainly better, but there is no way it could have been released as 1 film with a 4+ hour runtime. It also still had many of the same issues as the other DCEU films. Regardless of if some people liked it or not, the "Snyderverse" did not connect with general audiences.
The only two movies from the dceu I've connected with were BOP and Shazam 1. The ones that weren't hellbent on being 1000% grim but used it in a way that still has levity.
I remember watching BvS and seeing Superman die and felt absolutely nothing because I only met this dude one time before. I wish they fleshed out all the characters more before, connecting audiences with them smashing them all together.
14:40 So we're changing everything that happened... only after one movie was released. Really shows you how bad it was doesn't it? If the best thing to do was scrap the entire plan after the first release.
What pissed me off about the whole thing about "Superman v Batman" is that they made it about more building Justice League storyline & characters then the complicated yet heartfelt friendship between Superman & Batman aka Clark Kent & Bruce Wayne. What made the animated arc of Bruce Timm's WORLD FINEST is the complexity of both difference & similarities between Clark & Bruce. Their Fracture yet United Brotherhood they have with each other. I have yet to see that acutely.
As I’m watching this video I can see The French Connection on terrestrial tv in the background remembering your video about it. I’m now curious to watch it!
To me the biggest failure was just how they kept trying to compete with Marvel. They went with the right direction in terms style and darker tones but it seem like they're hell-bent on being marvel format. It felt like putting a round block in a square hole
The issue is the snyder vision worked for watchmen and batman but that is it. Dark and brooding is not superman, flash, wonder woman etc. Also if superman had not snapped zods neck maybe we are having a different conversation
Totally agree, although I think BvS was the bigger misstep than even that ending of Man of Steel. If BvS isn't a dumpster fire, I think that does a lot more to change the direction of things.
Yeah I agree. Snyder clearly thinks Nolan’s Dark Knight movies are the key to making “masterpieces”, when in reality, Superman doesn’t fit that tone. Even though I liked ZSJL, the tone of that movie could have been lighter as well.
I dnt like snyderverse but i think if they start with robert patinson batman, phoenix joker and gunn suicide squad then yeah dark comic movies will be a success
Yes BvS was a massive L. And anyone that says the UE would succeeded is wrong. The plot was just one of many issues people had. People didn't like the tone, the pacing, and the way certain characters were written.
@@metallicnole4514 batman was fine but Superman and my god Lex were so horribly off. Superman should have been bright and colorful and full of hope helping people and Lex an actual genius who believes supes is beneath him and not worthy of his time
It could have been saved if the old leadership at WB had stood behind Zack Snyder instead of going with what fans wanted, at the time. A theatrically released, timely Zack Snyder’s Justice League (I.e. the original planned movie) would have given them the monumental hit movie they wanted and needed.
The fans stood behind Zack, still stand behind. Fuck Zack Snyder, I'm a fan of Superman. Criticize Josstice League all you want but why did it take three movies for Superman to smile?
After the mess that was BvS, there's not a chance Snyder's vision would have been a hit. He didn't understand the characters and even openly mocked Superman in interviews. His vision was poor and his execution was even more poor. His justice league would have been slightly more popular than Whedon's but you're lying to yourself if you think it would have been a hit.
@@tskmaster3837Thank you! Snyder, that jackass, was in interviews talking about how he couldn't wait to tear down Superman. Like wtf?! He never even tried to understand the characters he made movies about.
They could have given the reigns to a creator who actually understands or cares about the characters, literally having a plan and that plan not including Zack Synder would have been the basic steps required.
@@BlueBloodPenn I will give him credit for the fact that he at least tried to do something different with these characters and didn’t try to follow Marvel’s formula
#ASKDAN Hello there Dan! I know it’s not uncommon for people to change their opinions on a movie. It happens all the time. But I’ve seen a lot of people that have been hating on Kingdom of the Crystal Skull for years suddenly say “what an misunderstood and overheated film that was” and most of the time it’s done so they can hate on “The Dial of Destiny”. What are your thoughts on this? Do you think this happens just so people can sh!t on a movie more or is it just coincidence? I’d love to hear them! Hope you have a great day!
I'm sure there are people who just now are changing their opinion on Crystal Skull so they can dunk on Dial of Destiny (I haven't seen this personally), but the conversation around Crystal Skull has steered more towards the positive (mostly people saying it's flawed but not as bad as the hate it got) for quite a few years now, like at least since 2015-16 I feel is when I first started seeing that change.
Witnessing the same thing with 2015 Cinderella and this year's The Little Mermaid. Cinderella, which was all around okay, but forgettable enough for no one to talk about post pandemic is suddenly the gold standard of Disney live action remakes so people can hate on the new Little Mermaid.
While I'm sure some folks are negatively comparing Dial of Destiny to Crystal Skull disingenuously or because its cool to hate on Disney for one reason or another, I think other factors are at play as well. A. The folks who really hated Crystal Skull moved on to other things and the folks who actually liked Crystal Skull have a chance to voice their opinions. B. Time tends to change or soften people's opinions, and a new Indiana Jones coming out actually makes that changed opinion relevant. C. An 8-year-old whose first introduction to Indiana Jones was Crystal Skull in theaters is 23 now, may have nostalgia for it, and has a wider social media reach than they did as an 8-year-old. This also goes for the prequels (aka Gen Z's introduction to Star Wars), and I know people who have been saying for years that they loved the 2015 Cinderella and saying that Disney learned the wrong lessons from it.
@@CMontgomeryBurns09 I think that's a very small percentage. And to me it doesn't make much sense. The prequels and sequels have completely separate issues. Just because the Sequels were garbage that doesn't fix the bad dialogue and other issues people had all these years. I'm willing to bet the vast majority of people who never connected with the prequels feel the exact same way, they simply have two trilogies they don't enjoy now.
Lets keep playing ... 1) James Gunn's new Superman movie gets released to horrible reviews and atrocious box-office results 2) James Gunn is fired 3) WB announced another reboot!
#AskDan - If the superhero genre has peaked or is starting to run aground (not saying it is, but it’s certainly a rough patch), is there a ‘kind’ of movie you see potentially catching the zeitgeist? Like how teen apocalyptic stories tried so hard last decade? Is this a troubling trend in Hollywood or just chasing dollars wherever they can find them?
As a life long DC fan, I'm both saddened and angry that WB haven't been able to figure out what to do with these iconic characters in a shared universe. Hopefully James Gunn will be able to do what previous executives have failed to do.
A really fantastic video, Dan. I’d say one of your best. I agree that if there wasn’t so much corporate shifting, many problems could’ve been avoided. Also, definitely think they should’ve cast Grant Gustin from the start. They totally underestimated his talent and ability to garner a devoted fan base.
For some reason, many (Snyder included) thought that Zack would be the “Kevin Feige” of DC. He was never in line for that. Dunno why so many thought he was.
This is patently false. The studio wanted Nolan to be the godfather of it all. Nolan suggested Synder for MoS. This is why Man or Steel looks so different to BvS. But the studios hopes ended when Nolan (and Bale) left. So Synder gets the more say but what really happened is the suits got more say. There are plenty of stories about how much the studio interfered at every level with BvS starting with the fact that Batman was never supposed to be in it at all. The studio wanted shorter time, wanted it darker to stand apart from Marvel, etc etc. And JL was even worse. I am not saying Synder could have done it, though after seeing the Synder cut, I definitely would have tried it out, the studio is the main villain in all this by far, some because of incompetence and some due to major changes as the studio multiple times in the decade.
I mean if the Flash movie is a great success, chances are WB will try to interfer with James Gunn's future DCU again by shoving these characters into them
Well, i think if they didnt panic with Snyder, the DCEU would have at this point, a pretty great Darker Comic Book Universe that would actually be good counter programming against the MCU. I think the Snyder Cut shows a lot of what could have been if they just trusted him more. But then again, BvS (theatrical cut) really messed a lot of things up.
I think this rewind in time idea would've failed as well. The first mistake you need to fix is hiring Zack Snyder. Maybe for photography or coreography at most, but never let that man direct a DC movie. Then you make a Superman, Batman, WW, Flash and Aquaman movies. Yes, you make at least 5 movies before Justice League (part 1 of 1) and then you have a solid base for your future
@@EnriqueguionesWB was actually responsible for that. They forced David Ayer to do all these reshoots to give it a more comedic tone when it was originally supposed to be a much darker and more serious film
@@justinriley That I do agree with. Like it seems like they absolutely hated Snyder’s guts. If that’s the case, it makes me wonder why they even hired him in the first place if they didn’t like him
Yeah and they keep making weird decisions. The person who directed the Flash is going to be doing Brave and the Bold? And they announced that before seeing how the Flash did at the box office. I'm not convinced they've learned from their mistakes. With that said, I'm glad they let Snyder do his vision for Man of Steel. I prefer when studios don't overly interfere in a project that's being made. I just agree that after seeing it didn't resonate with the audience they should have moved him to a different role or a different franchise.
To me the biggest problem was zack snyder he was a hopeless guy trying to write a hopeful person . His take literally goes against the core of the character thats why audiences never connected with his universe. He has $600M worth of tries
WB was more to blame. They constantly kept interfering with his movies. They forced him to remove 30 minutes of Batman V Superman for the theatrical cut. If the Ultimate Edition had been the one released to theaters, the film would’ve gotten much better reviews
@superjackster0165 WB only got involved when they saw that man of steel got a negative reaction but even the bvs ultimate edition had huge narrative problems like lex . Zacks work was never good enough
I'm really excited to have tickets to the Jaws movie party at Alamo Drafthouse on the 1st. I saw the movie at my local theater during the pandemic, but it was the worst theatrical experience of my life. I was next to a group of teenagers who couldn't stay off their phones and when they did they kept talking about relationships and gossip. I reported them to management and they were also reported by two other parties but suddenly behaved once theater employees started babysitting them. Hopefully I can have a great experience this weekend to fall in love with the film all over again. I also want to say that I miss movie fights and that I always got more excited about it when you were fighting.
I think that people who are angry with James Gunn’s choices aren’t understanding how necessary the reboot is. This franchise has been floundering and mismanaged for years, and they need a fresh start to have any sort of hope to right the ship. Flash’s performance at the box office right now is a perfect example of how tainted the brand has become. If you love these characters and want to see a long lasting vision of DC on the big screen, it only makes sense to root for Gunn to deliver an amazing product with his DCU.
A big part of the reason The Flash isn't doing well is *because* they announced a reboot of the DC universe, sapping the motivation for a lot of folks to pay to see it in the theater. If the actors playing Superman, WW, and Batman were staying on board, and people knew this film connected with Zack Snyder's plans, I'm pretty sure box office numbers for The Flash wouldn't have been so low.
@@analogbluesI honestly don’t think that’s true. I think the DCEU hasn’t resonated with people, people didn’t enjoy that iteration of the Flash in Justice League, and people don’t want to go out to support Ezra Miller. If anything, the reboot should have aided this film; since it was billed as this grand reset to pave the way for the future.
Man of Steel was incredible. No cheap jokes or silliness. Just a great movie and a natural start for someone that doesn’t know how to be a super hero. BVS (Ultimate edition) is also great imo. Felt like a natural reaction from someone like Batman is is being overly cautious. ZSJL was just incredible. Should have had that at the cinema the first time around. These 3 story’s followed closely from each other so it all plays out naturally. The next superman movie from ZS or another director could easily have been a lighter toned Superman movie where he has found his place in the world and is helping people. Thats all WB had to do. One more superman movie followed by JL 2 with maybe another solo movie in between alongside WW and Aquaman etc.
I tweeted a screenshot of your profitability graphic for gotg that showed it made under 20 million and I got ratioed hard lol. so many people are oblivious to how boxoffice works.
@@justinrileyHe wasn’t in charge of the DCEU. He was just directing the big films. Sure, he had a lot of creative input in it. But he wasn’t the CEO of DC
The timeline you designed for the DCEU was so well thought out I wonder why WB hasn't hired you! xD #ASKDAN Now that recently you have been watching some Anime (Kimetsu No Yaiba, Suzume and Belle, just to give some examples) would you be willing to create an Anime section on your channel? I know you're doing a lot right now, but I truly believe your insights on old classics and new releases could be very VERY special. It's a vast universe and I'm sure there's a lot there for you to enjoy.
Why do I feel so old after going through the entire history at the start (awesome recap btw)? My god, so much happened, so much drama it’s like a decade of our lives, madness lol
It would've been saved if Snyder could finish his storyline. We all saw how everyone enjoyed his Justice League movie (not the 2017 one) and wanted more.
I think you're right Dan on the first real inflection point. The movie that broke the DCEU was 'Avengers.' WB saw that and immediately said, 'we have to rush to a team up movie,' rather than building out their stable of characters.
They definitely jumped too quickly to Justice League. Here’s how I think they should’ve released the films. 1. Man of Steel 2. The Batman 3. A proper Man of Steel sequel 4. Batman V Superman 5. Wonder Woman 6. Aquaman 7. The Flash 8. Cyborg movie 9. Justice League
It's nice that Dan is able to look back and admit when he was wrong. Not many people seem to be able to do that now days, especially in media. That's makes Dan a cut above the rest as far as his integrity and why I trust him for all my Box Office news.
#AskDan Box office news is always about the Fri-Sun window. Can you share some insight into how Mon-Thurs impacts overall box office? Are there certain movies that have better weekday holds or interesting weekday/weekend splits?
To be fair, Jason Kihlar was the one who greenlit the Snyder cut release. Toby Emmerich had a grudge and wanted nothing to do with Snyder, he wanted to release the movie without the finished vfx/sfx.
the announcement of BVS in 2013 was a second wave of a rumor from the movie i Am Legend, with Will Smith, in that movie, set in the future, he is driving around New York City and he sees an old banner on a building, with a Batman/Superman logo, which had never been teased before in movies.
WB had no patience. They wanted to be like Marvel right away even though Marvel itself had to build up to what it eventually became. Iron Man made 585 million. Incredible Hulk only 264 million. It takes time and WB didn't want to give it. I really think Snyder was on the right track and had he not been meddled with DC would have been well on it's way. Instead it's been start, stop, restart, stop, restart etc. Now we are left with wondering what could have been and waiting to see what Gunn will do and having to wait 1.5 years just to find it out. Personally I don't have much faith in Gunn. I think he's just a talking head.
All they had to do was Continue the Snyderverse most of the DCEU fans loved the ZSJL and want to continue the universe but then more drama came in 😅. I think James Gunn announcing the reboot before months of the release of Flash it really did have a huge impact on Floping in the box office
Great job Dan! I wanted to ask if you were gonna review Werewolf by Night maybe this October since it's the only phase 4 project you haven't reviewed and I think it's pretty neat. Thanks!
I remember talking to friends wondering why they are rushing things and doing batman v superman instead of using the marvel formula and giving solo films , then do an avengers style movie called Justice League where your excited to see characters you already know come together.
This is simultaneously the most entertaining and exhausting video ever. The DCEU/Warner history could literally be a documentary film of itself.
This would be like the movie “Air” except how WB flopped. Ben can direct this one too…😂😂😂. He can explain why he stopped being Batman and disappointed fans who like his version…
There's a whole "Development of the DC Extended Universe" Wikipedia page
😅
I’ll never experience another moment like watching Endgame in a packed IMAX theater. Cap grabbing the hammer is my favorite moment in film history ever now.
Same. One of the few times that comics came to life for me.
“On your left” is sooooo good.
This looks like a job for... SuperDan!
Dan of Steel.
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Danman
WonderDan
The Dan
AuqaDan
ShazamDan
CyborDan
@@moreplzOr BatDan
News With Dan is a great show, i'm glad you've cemented this into your lineup
Totally agreed
Such a fun and insightful watch. Love these!
Kudos for this Flashpoint idea. I'm really enjoying the free form feel of The News with Dan. It was a really smart move to split this from Charts with Dan.
The DCAU that started in 1992 with Batman The animated series and ended with Justice League Unlimited showed how to streamline and modernize a vast Comic Book universe for a general audience. So of course WB ignored that and want grim dark making everyone version of Batman. The MCU and Kevin Feige seem to be the ones who learned from it.
Amen! This comment needs more likes on it! It's amazing that animation producers/writers could figure out how to have all these characters work together, yet a "major" movie studio couldn't.
What did they ignore? Justice League Threw Everyone Together to stop an Invasion The Only Character We Knew before that Were Batman, Superman, Flash (From a Guest appearance) and Green Lantern (From another Guest Appearance and it was a different guy) Everyone else was New to the Universe. That's Exactly what Snyder did. Superman origin in MoS, Bruce and Diana were introduced in BvS (Batman Origin Told), Flash showed up for a Cameo in Suicide Squad (Harley's Origin told), Wonder Woman Solo where her Origin Story told, Arthur Flash and Cyborg in JL where Cyborgs Origin is Told, then Aquaman solo where his is told. Flash was supposed to be around this time but DC and Warners kept Dicking Around. DCEU was organic with Every movie naturally Connected until Warners got cold feet cause they weren't getting enough Dough and then they weren't anymore. You mean to tell me there's a Giant tidal wave heading for shore and superman's not trying to Stop it? COME ON! Tee JL should have been in Aquaman but Warners chickened out. The problem wasn't Snyder it was Warners and DC.
You know who else is ignoring material that would have made good movies? Disney Star Wars. Even if we only consider the new Marvel material, there is some REALLY good stuff there from which good TV series and good movies could have been adapted. The Darth Vader stuff by Kieron Gillen and Charles Soule are just 2 examples.
@@Fenris30 Lol I think comparing two multiseason cartoons as equivalent to Batfleck showing up in BvS is a little misleading. Heck, that guest appearance of the Flash is more time than WW's characterization in BvS.
@@rubaiyat300 Not really, Flash only showed up in one episode as did Aquaman. Hell most of the time they had completely different personalities in their one appearance then they did on the JL show, so it's not like they actually respected continuity. As for Diana my take is Did she help out in spite of wanting to stay hidden? That's characterization enough. It's called Heroism.
I feel like a big thing that you didn’t really bring up that I felt like didn’t help things was the acquisition of Time Warner by AT&T. One of the apparent reasons why Justice League wasn’t delayed despite all of the reshoots was because the then executives at WB was trying to keep the potential bonuses from the acquisition as it was originally set to close around that time (that obviously didn’t happen, because the DOJ sued to try to stop the deal). AT&T effectively nearly destroyed WB for the sake of creating a Netflix competitor (HBO Max), with the day and date hybrid release strategy effectively being the straw that broke the camel’s back where AT&T realized they couldn’t keep pumping money into supporting HBO Max (partially because they were in deep debt because of all the acquisitions they’ve done). I kinda want to see the alternative universe where AT&T didn’t buy Time Warner, just to see what could have happened to the DCEU.
Next-level take, thanks
That’s not just AT&T though, that’s also WB. Also, Justice League was releasing in a time that Synder bowed out due to a family tragedy, (nothing to do with the companies) and against the backdrop BvS and Suicide Squad receiving heavy criticism. Sure, there’s still WW, but that was the only true saving grace for them at the time. The production of Justice League was besieged by a myriad of problems, not just the acquisition.
@@Kevo6492 I’m not arguing that AT&T was the main issue here. I’m just saying they were too big of a factor to gloss over.
@Kevo6492 the only thing tragic, besides the tragedy itself, is meddling in zacks vision
This might sound odd, but your show always provides me with a bit of comfort. Right now I’m dealing with two very close family members suffering from illness and watching your show i between caring for them has really been a blessing for me. Thank you for providing this content and providing a bit of escape ❤
I was literally just discussing this with my boyfriend last night - their mistake was trying to introduce the Justice League WAY before establishing them as separate, good characters that we could root for. They wanted so bad to be the MCU but seemed to miss that the MCU built up some of their characters with individual movies before throwing them all together. It's too late now to fix their mistakes, and it's so sad.
Honest question though; why is having individual movies before the team up movie necessary? Isn’t that exactly copying the way Marvel did it?
LotR didn’t need individual movies for multiple characters either. You can introduce them in a team up movie IF done well.
By the way Zack envisioned it; introducing them in Justice League; giving them a reason to unite you would have been hyped to check out their solo films. That was the plan.
I agree, it was craxzy that we got a Justice League movie, before a Flash and Aquaman solo movie. Also the fact Superman was not in most of the movie didnt help either
@@KrustydaClown THANK YOU!! This is it. Copying marvel was not the way... WB was donig something different in tone and construction and it was gonna be glorious...
Alas...
@Djrobinv you have a point! I guess all in all, it wasn't executed well. Would it have made a difference if Wonder Woman came out before Justice League? Who knows? But they could have done something amazing and they fumbled so badly.
@@KaitTheUnfunny I think Wonder Woman was needed because she served a purpose in setting up the Justice League. So we needed to care for her already. That’s why she was already in BvS.
What the fumble, in my opinion, here was, as much as I like the Ultimate Edition of BvS, is you can’t have a Man of Steel sequel, with huge ramifications for the character, a Batman introduction film, which sets up a huge conflict for the character (the “broken” bat and abandoning the no killing rule), mixing those stories up ánd introduce the Justice League. It was too much story for one film, which is why in the end the lead up to Justice League felt rushed. If they kept the slate the same but split BvS into two, maybe even three seperate films; the continuation of becoming the Superman, introducing the Bat and having them clash in the third one the lead-up to Justice League would’ve been perfect in my opinion. Then you could introduce Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg perfectly fine in Justice League. Cyborg’s story, for example, in Zack Snyder’s Justice League shows you how well you could do an origin story and having it tied to the team-up. It’s because of the team seeing his value that he becomes a superhero. I was hyped for more Cyborg after I watched Zack Snyder’s Justice League and that would’ve been perfect had the original slate played out.
I live in LA, and work as a 3d artist. Every morning I'll listen to Dan for the current Hollywood news. Thank you Dan!
Nice!! I too am a 3d artist!
@@M_k-zi3tn Lets get it !!
Animators stand up 💪🏿
Stop molesting
Dan, I genuinely expect someone from Warner Bros. or another studio contact you. You have clarity, vision, and purpose with your insight. Thanks!
Those are likely the reasons Dan won’t be contacted.
He’s too good for them.
@@orangeapples😂😂
Hear hear
The minute they pulled the starting gun on the new era of films, before they had finished releasing like 6 of the old era of films, they immediately devalued those films: why us anyone going to spend time and money with these characters if they know they are not going to have any more stories with them?
Exactly I had zero interest in seeing movies from a dead franchise and TBH I'm not sure about Gunns DC universe. I like his GOTG movies but didn't like TSS
They also said box office success could help decide if they come back. These movies DID matter and you said “go away.”
@@kityhawk2000so if Disney announces tomorrow the mcu is ending after secret wars, you’re gonna stop showing up? After all, you don’t see movies from dead franchises
@@christianogden2825 It's weird cause like Harry Potter and LotR all have very well known endings and the movies that adapted them did quite well. Seems a weird take.
It’ll be interesting to see how future generations look back on the DCEU in 10-20 years and onward. Marvel was able to harness Lightning in a bottle with the successes of their Infinity Saga, and DC was just never able to keep up due to poor planning and management. The saddest part is thousands of people have worked hard on all of these DC movies, hoping to also create something beloved and memorable, and entire years-worth of passionate filmmaking can be thrown out at the whims of a producer or some executives. Great News Coverage Dan!
Your “new” DC timeline is what any logical person/producer/executive should have come up with. Mind blowing
It still feels a little shortsighted due to the PLETHORA of solo movies he put on the slate that would all need sequels. The MCU is already having trouble juggling all its solo franchises and pacing their releases out. His schedule has a Batman solo film that doesn't get a sequel until 7 years have passed.
@@garrettcarter5622 I was assuming they had a more humble "shared vision" of standalone films, rather than trying to come out of the gate with Avengers: End Game.
You're right that 7 years is a long time to wait for a sequel, if one was implied, however it could also mean that the extra time results in a better movie in the end.
Afterall, Across the Spiderverse had a 5 year gap and it was well worth the wait.
You still have to hope Snyder makes good movies, otherwise it still means nothing
Loving the content and the deep dives lately, any chance we can get an update on the writer and actors strike at some point soon feels like it’s been forever already
Another contributing factor is the Ezra Miller Flash situation. There were a lot of fires burning, there
He addressed that breifly @16:00
Yeah, I honestly might have checked it out if not for Ezra Miller. Do not need to support anyone like that.
@@Jaclynn9Michael Keaton, Michael Shannon, Sasha calle thoooooo
@@Jaclynn9 they’ll likely fire him, anyway. Especially assured after this. Rock and hard spot, for them. I’ve seen the movie, twice. It’s extremely good, but I certainly don’t blame anyone for sitting it out because of Ezra. As a character, The Flash is interesting. Famous and yet not widely proven/an evergreen superhero. That being the case, they needed to have A Good Guy to lead marketing efforts. They didn’t.
@slapyoulikeawha I went to support Keaton and the other actors, the studio. I could care less about Ezra and one person shouldn't hinder the production. He's gone after this anyways. Great fun movie.
Listening to this not only gives me major "incompetent leadership" vibes, but a persistent power struggle behind the scenes by people who are chasing money more than they are a quality product (and are willing to change at the drop of a hat to pursue such ) -- not realizing that that constant change is palpable to those on the outside and over time wear away at credibility and the desire to spend money by products from these people.
big round of applause for this DCEU-timeline, the way you put it into perspective and the ideas for rewrites you developed!
Have you seen the stan lee doc that just came out. There was archive footage of Stan Lee and DC’ CEO talking about comic books and who they are written for. The DC guy cared about the product and scoffed at stan lee TO HIS FACE about focusing on character and relating to people rather than creating a cheap adventure for profit. Its worth a watch
Well, Stan Lee took credit for the work of his artists and underpaid them so you can tell he learnt his lessons really well 😂
Yeah Stan lee wasn’t exactly the most amazing guy either though. Don’t know why he gets all the credit when ditko and Kirby were monoliths in their own right and the whole “marvel” way of telling stories was pretty absurd tbh. Once both companies hit the 80s, I really do feel like marvel lost sight of some of their characters though, while DC was really figuring them out
Wow
I’m so glad your channel just exists. You’re made for this Dan. Thanks.
I agree that if DC didn't panic in the beginning they actually could have had a solid universe. The lack of trust was there from the beginning and I don't think it would have mattered who was at the helm, the studio didn't trust it's creatives. I liked some of the outlier experimental films like BOP but I also know that by then it was too late and the DCEU was too far gone to even experiment like that.
Without a PhD in the mathematics of chaos theory, it is impossible to decipher the story of DCEU.
Whoa! I would like to know more. Can you elaborate
explain
The core problem was they were trying to construct a universe out of source material that was entirely about deconstruction... Like building a castle out of rubble...
Your metaphor is rather unfortunate, as rubble is a common construction material, including the interior fill of castle walls 😋
Personally, the root of the problem was marketing the DCEU as the definitive, cinematic iteration of DC comics, when it was more like an Elseworld universe. In today's oversaturated market, Zack Snyder's vision may have been seen as a breath of fresh air, but, at the time, The Dark Knight was still fresh in everyone's minds.
Iron Man debuted when audiences were craving for something new and lighter that differed from the dark grittiness that marked many comic-book movies in the last decade like the X-Men films. The more balanced approach to the early MCU was seen as more comic-book accurate for this reason, and the DCEU as deconstructive. However, we see that there is a market for dark deconstructions of comic book archetypes as demonstrated by The Boys and Invincible. Zack Snyder's DCEU was simply a good idea for the wrong time.
@@zachhecita 100% agree with this. I think Zack's vision should have been his own separate thing from the very beginning and not a representation of a DC universe that is more familiar with the public. I think Gunn's new universe will be received much more positively as it will be a much more light-hearted and similar to the justice league we all know.
In the immortal words of The Kergan, “It’s better to burn out than fade away”. 🔥 Highlander reference for you younglings.
Also, the stakes are always the same lol, always world-ending threats and the like. If they scale it down, it’ll do much better, save the world 🌎 stuff for the team ups.
The entire issue with the DCEU was the studio. They interfered, and altered the plan.
#AskDan As a movie critic and cinephile, I assume you have seen nearly every well known and beloved movie to ever come out. I was wondering, what are some of the most popular movies in history that you haven’t seen yet?? Thanks for such great content!
Thanks for saving the DCEU, Dan!
#AskDan Loved your alternate take on the DCEU. Going to throw in another suggestion and would love to hear your thoughts- would DC have been better off not trying to connect their films? For me personally Aquaman, Joker, The Batman, Wonder Woman etc worked largely as their own things and that DC seemed to suffer more for trying to make an extended universe happen.
Your DCEU slate is SO much better than we've gotten and will get with Gunn. I absolutely would've loved this
Lol
#AskDan - Why do you think the DCEU has been so hesitant to marry the Arrowverse and the DCEU together and let them coexist? I don’t know why they wouldn’t have been able to help each other?
Probably because the Arrowverse is a cheap tv project🤨
@@IanSmith2814 You’re not wrong, but I do think that both Grant Gustin and Stephen Amell had the acting chops to make the leap to the DCEU. Just my personal opinion though.
@@andrewspears12 I agree 100%! By keeping them separate I also think they alienated a lot of potential fans from the films. The Arrowverse was in its heyday by that point and the fan base certainly would've had an impact on the box office if those actors were included.
Might have something to do with the Arrowverse not being 100% owned by WB. They split costs with CBS for any show that aired in CW.
I think the movie executives think their too good for the CW Arrowverse.
Been watching you for years and this is one of your best videos yet. Just very quality content.
I love Grant Gustin’s work on the Flash TV show and hate that the writing/script for the show has continually worsened and wish he would have been cast or recast as the Flash in the DCEU. Miller is good and brings his own flavor, but so does Gustin!
Cw is teenage garbage
+ Grant Gustin isn't a criminal, so there's always that!
Miller is trash and needs to go. if Johnny Depp can lose his career over unproven allegations why does this guy get to keep his career when he's been caught on tape abusing women?
How dare you say the writing was declining?!?! What about that episode where Barry felt like he had to do it all himself and then was a jerk to a team member and then later apologizes for being a jerk and learns that he has to rely on and lead his team??? And then the one where he is attacked by a speedster? You know, pretty much every single episode of the last three seasons?
@@curtisbme 😂😂 I stand corrected! Exquisite writing indeed!
24:09 Love love LOVE the new Sliding Scale!!
At the end of the day, the story has to be able to connect and made an impact.
Synder cut was better received because of how bad the Whedon version was. If the synder cut was released as planned, there’s no guarantee that it would have beef well received
Especially if it was released at 3.5 or 4 hours (I don't recall it's length, other than super long), I don't think it would have been that well received, unless it was split in 2
Agree. My opinion of the Snyder Cut has always been that it's better than the Whedon version, but it's still not good.
Ehhh idk about that ZSJL is legitimately a great film, I’m pretty sure the reaction was genuine
@@AVarStuntsThe Snyder Cut of JL was certainly better, but there is no way it could have been released as 1 film with a 4+ hour runtime. It also still had many of the same issues as the other DCEU films. Regardless of if some people liked it or not, the "Snyderverse" did not connect with general audiences.
The only two movies from the dceu I've connected with were BOP and Shazam 1. The ones that weren't hellbent on being 1000% grim but used it in a way that still has levity.
I remember watching BvS and seeing Superman die and felt absolutely nothing because I only met this dude one time before. I wish they fleshed out all the characters more before, connecting audiences with them smashing them all together.
14:40 So we're changing everything that happened... only after one movie was released.
Really shows you how bad it was doesn't it? If the best thing to do was scrap the entire plan after the first release.
BvS was the first nail in the DCEU’s coffin.
News with Dan is my new favorite segment on your channel! Keep it up 😎
What pissed me off about the whole thing about "Superman v Batman" is that they made it about more building Justice League storyline & characters then the complicated yet heartfelt friendship between Superman & Batman aka Clark Kent & Bruce Wayne. What made the animated arc of Bruce Timm's WORLD FINEST is the complexity of both difference & similarities between Clark & Bruce. Their Fracture yet United Brotherhood they have with each other. I have yet to see that acutely.
Too right! BvS was just a 150 minute trailer for Justice League.
Absolutely.
As I’m watching this video I can see The French Connection on terrestrial tv in the background remembering your video about it. I’m now curious to watch it!
To me the biggest failure was just how they kept trying to compete with Marvel. They went with the right direction in terms style and darker tones but it seem like they're hell-bent on being marvel format. It felt like putting a round block in a square hole
ZSJL was the proper restart for DCEU if they wanted to.
The issue is the snyder vision worked for watchmen and batman but that is it. Dark and brooding is not superman, flash, wonder woman etc. Also if superman had not snapped zods neck maybe we are having a different conversation
Totally agree, although I think BvS was the bigger misstep than even that ending of Man of Steel. If BvS isn't a dumpster fire, I think that does a lot more to change the direction of things.
Yeah I agree. Snyder clearly thinks Nolan’s Dark Knight movies are the key to making “masterpieces”, when in reality, Superman doesn’t fit that tone. Even though I liked ZSJL, the tone of that movie could have been lighter as well.
I dnt like snyderverse but i think if they start with robert patinson batman, phoenix joker and gunn suicide squad then yeah dark comic movies will be a success
Snyder worked for Batman? Bruh that was the main dumpster fire
What truly harmed the DCEU was WB’s impatience in getting out Justice League, so yeah Dans flashpoint schedule would have likely saved the DCEU.
My flash point would have been hiring better screenwriters. And hiring an executive who will see to a larger story being told.
Facts!
Affleck’s written, directed and starred solo Batfleck film is the greatest Batman movie we never got.
BVS getting horrible reviews and having a massive second weekend drop was very telling.
If there’s any moment where it all went wrong, I think you picked the right one.
A movie with the DC trinity should have cruised to a billion.
@@griswoldclark6835 most definitely.
Yes BvS was a massive L. And anyone that says the UE would succeeded is wrong. The plot was just one of many issues people had. People didn't like the tone, the pacing, and the way certain characters were written.
@@metallicnole4514 batman was fine but Superman and my god Lex were so horribly off. Superman should have been bright and colorful and full of hope helping people and Lex an actual genius who believes supes is beneath him and not worthy of his time
Dan Murrell DC film news videos have been my comfort viewing for nearly a decade now 🥰😅
It could have been saved if the old leadership at WB had stood behind Zack Snyder instead of going with what fans wanted, at the time. A theatrically released, timely Zack Snyder’s Justice League (I.e. the original planned movie) would have given them the monumental hit movie they wanted and needed.
True.
The fans stood behind Zack, still stand behind.
Fuck Zack Snyder, I'm a fan of Superman. Criticize Josstice League all you want but why did it take three movies for Superman to smile?
After the mess that was BvS, there's not a chance Snyder's vision would have been a hit. He didn't understand the characters and even openly mocked Superman in interviews. His vision was poor and his execution was even more poor. His justice league would have been slightly more popular than Whedon's but you're lying to yourself if you think it would have been a hit.
@@tskmaster3837Thank you! Snyder, that jackass, was in interviews talking about how he couldn't wait to tear down Superman. Like wtf?! He never even tried to understand the characters he made movies about.
On a platform where everything feels like it has been done before, you always manage to turn out something fresh. Great video!
They could have given the reigns to a creator who actually understands or cares about the characters, literally having a plan and that plan not including Zack Synder would have been the basic steps required.
Zack Snyder at least had a full plan and vision for the entire DCEU all mapped out and ready to go
@@superjackster0165 well he says he did but he has clearly lied about things so i don't buy it. also his plans were goddam awful.
@@BlueBloodPenn At least he had a plan. At least give him credit for that. Whether it was a good plan is debatable. But it’s better than nothing
@@superjackster0165 sure, he gets credit for having ideas. the absolute bare minimum for any creator or anyone with any form of imagination.
@@BlueBloodPenn I will give him credit for the fact that he at least tried to do something different with these characters and didn’t try to follow Marvel’s formula
I liked how you went back to recent movies and applied your new sliding scale to them.
#ASKDAN Hello there Dan! I know it’s not uncommon for people to change their opinions on a movie. It happens all the time. But I’ve seen a lot of people that have been hating on Kingdom of the Crystal Skull for years suddenly say “what an misunderstood and overheated film that was” and most of the time it’s done so they can hate on “The Dial of Destiny”. What are your thoughts on this? Do you think this happens just so people can sh!t on a movie more or is it just coincidence? I’d love to hear them! Hope you have a great day!
A similar phenomenon occurred with the Star Wars Prequels after the sequel trilogy released.
I'm sure there are people who just now are changing their opinion on Crystal Skull so they can dunk on Dial of Destiny (I haven't seen this personally), but the conversation around Crystal Skull has steered more towards the positive (mostly people saying it's flawed but not as bad as the hate it got) for quite a few years now, like at least since 2015-16 I feel is when I first started seeing that change.
Witnessing the same thing with 2015 Cinderella and this year's The Little Mermaid. Cinderella, which was all around okay, but forgettable enough for no one to talk about post pandemic is suddenly the gold standard of Disney live action remakes so people can hate on the new Little Mermaid.
While I'm sure some folks are negatively comparing Dial of Destiny to Crystal Skull disingenuously or because its cool to hate on Disney for one reason or another, I think other factors are at play as well.
A. The folks who really hated Crystal Skull moved on to other things and the folks who actually liked Crystal Skull have a chance to voice their opinions.
B. Time tends to change or soften people's opinions, and a new Indiana Jones coming out actually makes that changed opinion relevant.
C. An 8-year-old whose first introduction to Indiana Jones was Crystal Skull in theaters is 23 now, may have nostalgia for it, and has a wider social media reach than they did as an 8-year-old.
This also goes for the prequels (aka Gen Z's introduction to Star Wars), and I know people who have been saying for years that they loved the 2015 Cinderella and saying that Disney learned the wrong lessons from it.
@@CMontgomeryBurns09 I think that's a very small percentage. And to me it doesn't make much sense. The prequels and sequels have completely separate issues. Just because the Sequels were garbage that doesn't fix the bad dialogue and other issues people had all these years. I'm willing to bet the vast majority of people who never connected with the prequels feel the exact same way, they simply have two trilogies they don't enjoy now.
Lets keep playing ...
1) James Gunn's new Superman movie gets released to horrible reviews and atrocious box-office results
2) James Gunn is fired
3) WB announced another reboot!
#AskDan - If the superhero genre has peaked or is starting to run aground (not saying it is, but it’s certainly a rough patch), is there a ‘kind’ of movie you see potentially catching the zeitgeist? Like how teen apocalyptic stories tried so hard last decade? Is this a troubling trend in Hollywood or just chasing dollars wherever they can find them?
As a life long DC fan, I'm both saddened and angry that WB haven't been able to figure out what to do with these iconic characters in a shared universe. Hopefully James Gunn will be able to do what previous executives have failed to do.
A really fantastic video, Dan. I’d say one of your best. I agree that if there wasn’t so much corporate shifting, many problems could’ve been avoided. Also, definitely think they should’ve cast Grant Gustin from the start. They totally underestimated his talent and ability to garner a devoted fan base.
Great job with the organization and editing of this video Dan!
#AskDan So did you patent your Murrell metric? Getting paid by Netflix would be nice.
Need that Deathstroke movie with Gareth Evans too
It started with Zack Snyder as the architect, so it was destined to fail. How does he keep failing upward?
For some reason, many (Snyder included) thought that Zack would be the “Kevin Feige” of DC. He was never in line for that. Dunno why so many thought he was.
This is patently false. The studio wanted Nolan to be the godfather of it all. Nolan suggested Synder for MoS. This is why Man or Steel looks so different to BvS.
But the studios hopes ended when Nolan (and Bale) left. So Synder gets the more say but what really happened is the suits got more say. There are plenty of stories about how much the studio interfered at every level with BvS starting with the fact that Batman was never supposed to be in it at all. The studio wanted shorter time, wanted it darker to stand apart from Marvel, etc etc.
And JL was even worse.
I am not saying Synder could have done it, though after seeing the Synder cut, I definitely would have tried it out, the studio is the main villain in all this by far, some because of incompetence and some due to major changes as the studio multiple times in the decade.
Actually Snyder shouldn’t have been allowed anywhere near comic book characters. He should have struck with movies like 300
I mean if the Flash movie is a great success, chances are WB will try to interfer with James Gunn's future DCU again by shoving these characters into them
Well, i think if they didnt panic with Snyder, the DCEU would have at this point, a pretty great Darker Comic Book Universe that would actually be good counter programming against the MCU. I think the Snyder Cut shows a lot of what could have been if they just trusted him more. But then again, BvS (theatrical cut) really messed a lot of things up.
The creative choices of BvS killed the universe as a whole. Anyone defending Superman's death in movie 2 clearly had no idea what good writing is...
@rbleaks818 Oh im not defending BvS. while i dont hate it, it crammed in way too much stuff to rush into a justice league movie.
Great video man lot of effort shines through!
I think this rewind in time idea would've failed as well. The first mistake you need to fix is hiring Zack Snyder. Maybe for photography or coreography at most, but never let that man direct a DC movie.
Then you make a Superman, Batman, WW, Flash and Aquaman movies. Yes, you make at least 5 movies before Justice League (part 1 of 1) and then you have a solid base for your future
This entire DCEU situation seems like a drunk driver wildly swerving his car around on the road before finally crashing into a pole
I think WB should have replaced Snyder after the polarizing reception to Man of Steel. Keeping him on for BvS was the point of no return for the DCEU.
This, and the fact that Suicide Squad was absolute garbage.
@@EnriqueguionesWB was actually responsible for that. They forced David Ayer to do all these reshoots to give it a more comedic tone when it was originally supposed to be a much darker and more serious film
@@superjackster0165 They're also at fault for picking Snyder to kick off the franchise.
@@justinriley That I do agree with. Like it seems like they absolutely hated Snyder’s guts. If that’s the case, it makes me wonder why they even hired him in the first place if they didn’t like him
Yeah and they keep making weird decisions. The person who directed the Flash is going to be doing Brave and the Bold? And they announced that before seeing how the Flash did at the box office. I'm not convinced they've learned from their mistakes.
With that said, I'm glad they let Snyder do his vision for Man of Steel. I prefer when studios don't overly interfere in a project that's being made. I just agree that after seeing it didn't resonate with the audience they should have moved him to a different role or a different franchise.
How you can possibly have ownership of IP like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman.......And yet still fail over and over again????
To me the biggest problem was zack snyder he was a hopeless guy trying to write a hopeful person . His take literally goes against the core of the character thats why audiences never connected with his universe. He has $600M worth of tries
WB was more to blame. They constantly kept interfering with his movies. They forced him to remove 30 minutes of Batman V Superman for the theatrical cut. If the Ultimate Edition had been the one released to theaters, the film would’ve gotten much better reviews
@@superjackster0165 Sorry dude, but the Ultimate Cut is as bad as the theatrical one. Just longer.
@@Enriqueguiones It at least makes way more sense and answered so many plot holes and questions that were in the theatrical cut
@superjackster0165 WB only got involved when they saw that man of steel got a negative reaction but even the bvs ultimate edition had huge narrative problems like lex . Zacks work was never good enough
I'm really excited to have tickets to the Jaws movie party at Alamo Drafthouse on the 1st. I saw the movie at my local theater during the pandemic, but it was the worst theatrical experience of my life. I was next to a group of teenagers who couldn't stay off their phones and when they did they kept talking about relationships and gossip. I reported them to management and they were also reported by two other parties but suddenly behaved once theater employees started babysitting them. Hopefully I can have a great experience this weekend to fall in love with the film all over again. I also want to say that I miss movie fights and that I always got more excited about it when you were fighting.
I think that people who are angry with James Gunn’s choices aren’t understanding how necessary the reboot is. This franchise has been floundering and mismanaged for years, and they need a fresh start to have any sort of hope to right the ship. Flash’s performance at the box office right now is a perfect example of how tainted the brand has become. If you love these characters and want to see a long lasting vision of DC on the big screen, it only makes sense to root for Gunn to deliver an amazing product with his DCU.
A big part of the reason The Flash isn't doing well is *because* they announced a reboot of the DC universe, sapping the motivation for a lot of folks to pay to see it in the theater. If the actors playing Superman, WW, and Batman were staying on board, and people knew this film connected with Zack Snyder's plans, I'm pretty sure box office numbers for The Flash wouldn't have been so low.
@@analogbluesI honestly don’t think that’s true. I think the DCEU hasn’t resonated with people, people didn’t enjoy that iteration of the Flash in Justice League, and people don’t want to go out to support Ezra Miller. If anything, the reboot should have aided this film; since it was billed as this grand reset to pave the way for the future.
The story of the DCEU is the most baffling one imaginable. By the start of Aquaman I was already checked out.
Man of Steel was incredible. No cheap jokes or silliness. Just a great movie and a natural start for someone that doesn’t know how to be a super hero.
BVS (Ultimate edition) is also great imo. Felt like a natural reaction from someone like Batman is is being overly cautious.
ZSJL was just incredible. Should have had that at the cinema the first time around.
These 3 story’s followed closely from each other so it all plays out naturally.
The next superman movie from ZS or another director could easily have been a lighter toned Superman movie where he has found his place in the world and is helping people.
Thats all WB had to do. One more superman movie followed by JL 2 with maybe another solo movie in between alongside WW and Aquaman etc.
Man of steel and BvS just did not resonate with the general audience. I liked his version of JL, but did it need to be 4 hours long?
The fact the Internet is the Internet...and the fact that Dan had to even talk about the jaws stuff is hilarious
DCEU died on BvS’ second weekend.
I tweeted a screenshot of your profitability graphic for gotg that showed it made under 20 million and I got ratioed hard lol. so many people are oblivious to how boxoffice works.
All WB had to do was let Zack Snyder finish his 5 film story. That’s it.
Exactly. It makes me wonder why they even hired him in the first place since it seems like they absolutely hate his guts
Putting him in charge of the DCEU was part of the problem.
Hes the one that damaged the brand in the first place . Even doctor strange made more than man of steel
@@henrytoloza8623 Exactly. He was the wrong person to put in charge of the franchise.
@@justinrileyHe wasn’t in charge of the DCEU. He was just directing the big films. Sure, he had a lot of creative input in it. But he wasn’t the CEO of DC
They really had no clear direction with this universe
In regards to the Flash, I’m still waiting for the proper introduction of Wally West
The timeline you designed for the DCEU was so well thought out I wonder why WB hasn't hired you! xD
#ASKDAN Now that recently you have been watching some Anime (Kimetsu No Yaiba, Suzume and Belle, just to give some examples) would you be willing to create an Anime section on your channel? I know you're doing a lot right now, but I truly believe your insights on old classics and new releases could be very VERY special. It's a vast universe and I'm sure there's a lot there for you to enjoy.
Why do I feel so old after going through the entire history at the start (awesome recap btw)? My god, so much happened, so much drama it’s like a decade of our lives, madness lol
It would've been saved if Snyder could finish his storyline. We all saw how everyone enjoyed his Justice League movie (not the 2017 one) and wanted more.
I think you're right Dan on the first real inflection point. The movie that broke the DCEU was 'Avengers.' WB saw that and immediately said, 'we have to rush to a team up movie,' rather than building out their stable of characters.
They definitely jumped too quickly to Justice League. Here’s how I think they should’ve released the films.
1. Man of Steel
2. The Batman
3. A proper Man of Steel sequel
4. Batman V Superman
5. Wonder Woman
6. Aquaman
7. The Flash
8. Cyborg movie
9. Justice League
It's nice that Dan is able to look back and admit when he was wrong. Not many people seem to be able to do that now days, especially in media. That's makes Dan a cut above the rest as far as his integrity and why I trust him for all my Box Office news.
DC films actually did well then they wouldn’t have merged with Discovery
The shark intro is indeed the stuff of nightmares!
#AskDan Box office news is always about the Fri-Sun window. Can you share some insight into how Mon-Thurs impacts overall box office? Are there certain movies that have better weekday holds or interesting weekday/weekend splits?
So interesting Dan, thank you! Definitely a case study in studio interference not working out.
To be fair, Jason Kihlar was the one who greenlit the Snyder cut release. Toby Emmerich had a grudge and wanted nothing to do with Snyder, he wanted to release the movie without the finished vfx/sfx.
I’m watching Dan talk on how Ryan Reynold’s Green Lantern was a flop. Then I see a commercial for Mint Mobile.
the announcement of BVS in 2013 was a second wave of a rumor from the movie i Am Legend, with Will Smith, in that movie, set in the future, he is driving around New York City and he sees an old banner on a building, with a Batman/Superman logo, which had never been teased before in movies.
WB had no patience. They wanted to be like Marvel right away even though Marvel itself had to build up to what it eventually became. Iron Man made 585 million. Incredible Hulk only 264 million. It takes time and WB didn't want to give it. I really think Snyder was on the right track and had he not been meddled with DC would have been well on it's way. Instead it's been start, stop, restart, stop, restart etc. Now we are left with wondering what could have been and waiting to see what Gunn will do and having to wait 1.5 years just to find it out. Personally I don't have much faith in Gunn. I think he's just a talking head.
Your version of the DC timeline was excellent! I specially loved that threw Grant Gustin in as The Flash.
What a way for the studio to play the casting hokey-pokey game with Henry Cavill.
We will never know what ZS's JL would have looked like in theaters because what we got was nowhere near what a theatrical cut would have looked like.
All they had to do was Continue the Snyderverse most of the DCEU fans loved the ZSJL and want to continue the universe but then more drama came in 😅. I think James Gunn announcing the reboot before months of the release of Flash it really did have a huge impact on Floping in the box office
Great job Dan! I wanted to ask if you were gonna review Werewolf by Night maybe this October since it's the only phase 4 project you haven't reviewed and I think it's pretty neat. Thanks!
"The Green Lantern, starring Jon Stewart and Hal Jordan" 😂
Another crazy thing: Gal Gadot just announced she’s in talks with WB/DC again about Wonder Woman. WTF
I remember talking to friends wondering why they are rushing things and doing batman v superman instead of using the marvel formula and giving solo films , then do an avengers style movie called Justice League where your excited to see characters you already know come together.