Hi Alister, Again a fantastic piece of education. You made me getting a lot better picture out of the Sony FS5 and my Shogun Inferno. I only have one question: With Prores raw the camera should be setup with S-LOG2 S-gamut color profile. However importing it in Adobe Premiere 2022 the color space setting for the clip can only be: BT.709, BT.2020 HLG, Cinema Gamut/C-Log2, D-Gamut/D-log, Rec.2020/N-log, V-Gamut/V-log, S-Gamut3/S-Log3, or S-Gamut.Cine/S-Log3. Which is the one to choose? Or should I change the Camera setting to S-LOG2 S-Cinema gamut in stead of your advice S-LOG2 S-gamut?
If you go from 12 bit raw to 10 bit ProRes Log it's a big compromise because of the linear to log conversion. 10 bit ProRes log (derived from the raw) will have far fewer tonal values than the original raw.
Thanks, as always, for your insights. I suppose Apple might hope this will coax a few people back to FCPX, but I will have to wait until PRR is available for Premiere Pro and DaVinci Resolve Studio. I'm not anti-FCPX in any way. Its just that I have projects and clients that originate in Premiere, and my color grading tool of choice, by far, is Resolve. I presume Apple will eventually license PRR, but knowing Apple that may take a while.
I suspect you are right. My best guess would be that we see it in Resolve on Mac's long before we see it anywhere else. If I was Apple I wouldn't want to see it in Premier on Windows as this would be giving the competition a free ride.
Hi Alister, Great video and you are a great teacher! I would love to know how do you editing ProRes RAW in FCPX? Do you use Proxy files and how? I am using Sony FS700RH + Atomos Shogun Inferno. My problem is that during playback after 2-3 smoothly seconds i have a lot of droped frames. I have tried to work with Proxy files, but when I import RAW and create Proxy files in one new created Wide Gamut HDR Project, they are not the same color Gamut? If I change the "RAW to Log Conversion" and "Camera LUT" from Sony S-Log3/S-Gamut 3 to None, I can still see the diference between Original and Proxy files. So you can not really do a good color correction on proxy files at all! But if I import RAW and create Proxy files in one new 709 Standard Project then the Original and Proxy files are the same! And FCPX does the grat job applying "RAW to Log Conversion" and "Camera LUT" with Sony S-Log3/S-Gamut 3, so that the files looking allready very well color graded! At first, I was skeptical about ProRes RAW, shooting only ProRes422HQ and editing in PremierePro, but have had a lot of Noise in my SLOG2 2x overexposed as Alister teach me. Then, after some tests with ProRes RAW in FCPX I was pleasantly surprised how FCPX deal well with noise! My decision is to stay with the RAW in FCPX and to find the best workflow for me. Every advice is welcome.
Thanks for making those tests. Idd, very nice upgrade when you have a FS5 . For me , owning a FS7, i don't think it would make a big difference..(?) even not taking account the cost of the extra back extention and atomos... But indeed for the fs5, you can use it's small form factor when needed and use the RAW on a bigger project.
Compared to an 8 bit internal recording 12 bit ProRes Raw is a huge difference. When you convert from 12 bit linear to 10 bit log you lose a lot of the benefits of raw and you are creating a worst case scenario file conversion as linear raw puts the most data into the highlights and very little in the shadows, while log reduces the highlight data, so you end up with a 10 bit recording that lacks both shadow and highlight data. But this is still better than an 8 bit internal recording, but little different to a 10 bit log internal recording if the camera can do that.
Thanks Alister! Very helpful information. I just have one question for you. It seems to me that my a7sii is sharper and more detailed in 4K than my fs5 when both are recorded in SGamut3.cine. They have the same internal compression/data rate. Why do you think that is?
Hi, Mr. Chapmann says he uses Programm Nr. 7! That is S-Log 2/ with S-Gammut. Now on the upper left hand side it says: Standard FCP-X S-Log 3 LUT applied! That confuses me! Can anybody help!? Thanks in advance for an explanation!
In camera you must use PP7 with S-Log2 to get the camera to output the best quality raw from the sensor. Once you get in to post you can convert the raw to whatever you wan't. By default FCP-X converts it to S-Log3 as there are more LUT's available for S-Log3 than S-Log2.
YES!!!! I have been waiting for someone to make this video!!! This is why I have followed you for years! Awesome!
Great piece, Alister! I wish I had this information and your podcast on PRR a few weeks back before starting my own FS5m2/PPR?FCPX journey.
Awesome! Thank you for all you do! You are a superb resource and a great teacher!
Hi Alister, Again a fantastic piece of education. You made me getting a lot better picture out of the Sony FS5 and my Shogun Inferno. I only have one question:
With Prores raw the camera should be setup with S-LOG2 S-gamut color profile. However importing it in Adobe Premiere 2022 the color space setting for the clip can only be: BT.709, BT.2020 HLG, Cinema Gamut/C-Log2, D-Gamut/D-log, Rec.2020/N-log, V-Gamut/V-log, S-Gamut3/S-Log3, or S-Gamut.Cine/S-Log3. Which is the one to choose?
Or should I change the Camera setting to S-LOG2 S-Cinema gamut in stead of your advice S-LOG2 S-gamut?
Thanks Sir! Did you try to compare also the standard Prores? Unfortunately Prores Raw is a no go on Windows...
If you go from 12 bit raw to 10 bit ProRes Log it's a big compromise because of the linear to log conversion. 10 bit ProRes log (derived from the raw) will have far fewer tonal values than the original raw.
Thanks, Alister. You’re the man!
Thanks, as always, for your insights.
I suppose Apple might hope this will coax a few people back to FCPX, but I will have to wait until PRR is available for Premiere Pro and DaVinci Resolve Studio. I'm not anti-FCPX in any way. Its just that I have projects and clients that originate in Premiere, and my color grading tool of choice, by far, is Resolve. I presume Apple will eventually license PRR, but knowing Apple that may take a while.
I suspect you are right. My best guess would be that we see it in Resolve on Mac's long before we see it anywhere else. If I was Apple I wouldn't want to see it in Premier on Windows as this would be giving the competition a free ride.
Nice! Awesome info! May I ask whether you have a video talking about exposing for ProRes RAW, please? Or just the normal 100% is good enough?
Hi Alister, Great video and you are a great teacher!
I would love to know how do you editing ProRes RAW in FCPX? Do you use Proxy files and how?
I am using Sony FS700RH + Atomos Shogun Inferno. My problem is that during playback after 2-3 smoothly seconds i have a lot of droped frames. I have tried to work with Proxy files, but when I import RAW and create Proxy files in one new created Wide Gamut HDR Project, they are not the same color Gamut? If I change the "RAW to Log Conversion" and "Camera LUT" from Sony S-Log3/S-Gamut 3 to None, I can still see the diference between Original and Proxy files. So you can not really do a good color correction on proxy files at all!
But if I import RAW and create Proxy files in one new 709 Standard Project then the Original and Proxy files are the same! And FCPX does the grat job applying "RAW to Log Conversion" and "Camera LUT" with Sony S-Log3/S-Gamut 3, so that the files looking allready very well color graded!
At first, I was skeptical about ProRes RAW, shooting only ProRes422HQ and editing in PremierePro, but have had a lot of Noise in my SLOG2 2x overexposed as Alister teach me. Then, after some tests with ProRes RAW in FCPX I was pleasantly surprised how FCPX deal well with noise! My decision is to stay with the RAW in FCPX and to find the best workflow for me.
Every advice is welcome.
Always great info..
Thank you for this valuable infos!
Thanks for making those tests. Idd, very nice upgrade when you have a FS5 . For me , owning a FS7, i don't think it would make a big difference..(?) even not taking account the cost of the extra back extention and atomos...
But indeed for the fs5, you can use it's small form factor when needed and use the RAW on a bigger project.
I agree, it's a big deal on the FS5, a considerable upgrade. But 10 bit log from the FS7 is pretty good to start with, so it's a much smaller upgrade.
How would the difference between raw to prores and raw to prores raw hq be? Just asking because there is such small prores raw support in nles
Compared to an 8 bit internal recording 12 bit ProRes Raw is a huge difference. When you convert from 12 bit linear to 10 bit log you lose a lot of the benefits of raw and you are creating a worst case scenario file conversion as linear raw puts the most data into the highlights and very little in the shadows, while log reduces the highlight data, so you end up with a 10 bit recording that lacks both shadow and highlight data. But this is still better than an 8 bit internal recording, but little different to a 10 bit log internal recording if the camera can do that.
Thanks for this Video!
Thanks Alister! Very helpful information. I just have one question for you. It seems to me that my a7sii is sharper and more detailed in 4K than my fs5 when both are recorded in SGamut3.cine. They have the same internal compression/data rate. Why do you think that is?
In camera sharpening.
very nice explanation through the FS5. how about the old FS700R it can be similar output result like the FS5 using the codec ProRes RAW?
I own both cameras and I think that the FS700 looks a little bit better than the FS5 when shooting prores raw 4k
Really? That surprises me as the sensors are the same and this is just sensor data.
The codec is in the recorder not the camera, so you can use ProRes Raw with the FS700 with a suitable recorder.
Hi, Mr. Chapmann says he uses Programm Nr. 7! That is S-Log 2/ with S-Gammut. Now on the upper left hand side it says: Standard FCP-X S-Log 3 LUT applied! That confuses me! Can anybody help!? Thanks in advance for an explanation!
In camera you must use PP7 with S-Log2 to get the camera to output the best quality raw from the sensor. Once you get in to post you can convert the raw to whatever you wan't. By default FCP-X converts it to S-Log3 as there are more LUT's available for S-Log3 than S-Log2.
Now, when Nikon and Atomos deliver the firmware for the Z6 and Ninja V we are cooking!!!
Thanks, Alister!
I would say it give you more creative attitude to push the colour