What if Hush found Hugo Strange's logs in Arkham City, revealing Bruce's identity. After that he approaches Crane to destroy Batman together from both identities, with Hush tarnishing Bruce's reputation while Crane tarnishes Batman's. Maybe that was Dini's way of connecting Hush and Crane?
And you could still have a militia like force, with them being funded by Hush as he pretends to be Bruce Wayne. This gives Deathstroke more of a reason to be included instead of just tacked on at the end, it gives a chance for Lucius Fox to have a bigger role in the narrative, hell even Two Face and Penguin could’ve had more done for them because they both know Bruce Wayne and it could lead to some cool dialogue or interactions. Maybe they think he went nuts after being thrown in Arkham City or something, some cool wordbuilding could come out of it. It gives more room for them to flesh out the characters they showed off in AK, but never gave any real depth to
@@memiaszzinternetu6513 also the whole reason Bruce took Jason under his wing is so that he doesn’t become a dangerous criminal, so Joker turned Jason into what Bruce would fear
@@SoyboyPeterIndeed Jason’s death is directly tied to how Batman is in the games. The change I would’ve made is instead have Jason reveal himself at ACE Chemicals at the beginning of the game and deep dive further in flashbacks and the psychological breaking of Bruce Jason ties directly into Bruce’s fears whereas Hush really doesnt as nearly to a degree Maybe you can still in someway tie Hush into the main story as well. Maybe it’s a sort of triumvirate instead, Scarecrow is the psychological threat, Jason is the more physical threat, and Hush is the shadowy manipulator threat (using the guise of Bruce Wayne to turn his life upside down).
I think that Jason could’ve made a great side character. You get reports from Cash on how someone is killing criminals. How people who witnessed it saw Jason move like someone who was trained by Batman. You build up Jason and see that Bruce discovers it’s Jason. They have a huge boss fight and by the end Jason helps the Batfamily.
I like ur idea but instead of makin it seem like he was trained by Batman to make it more interesting they should make it seem like he could rival Batman ofc Jason can’t but it would be more suspenseful bc people would be like okay so who tf can rival Batman, tbh they coulda had him workin with hush and scarecrow but more as a separate team like they’ll sometimes share information
Yeah, but that'd be way to simular to azrael, and if they have Jason Todd it wouldn't make any sense on why he isn't a major player in the story considering his connection to batman, they could have made it a triumvarite between Jason, Scarecrow and Hush but even then Hush and Scarecrow wouldn't have any chemistry, with Jason you can tell he's just using Scarecrow as a means to an end and then if Hush is using the same reason that'd just be cheap, Maybe Hush and Jason together without Scarecrow could work but I couldnt see all three of them together
@@somerandofromoregon If Arkham Knight was still the antagonist I'd prefer he be a new character as advertised while Jason returns as the Red Hood. Maybe the antagonist who switches sides in-between.
I'm gonna one up on Dini's pitch; Make it a triumvirate of Scarecrow - Hush - Prometheus. Having just Scarecrow and Hush while sounding okay would mean scrapping the entire militia invading storyline of Knight. So I'd set it up as following; - Scarecrow; obviously wanting revenge on Batman of what happened to him back in Asylum - Hush; wanting vengeance on Bruce Wayne (for Thomas saving his mother) and Gotham city overall to be in ruins due to it not giving what he deserves. - Prometheus; Prometheus's origins stems from his parents who are criminals being killed by cops. Have a flashback scene where Batman (who sometime before Arkham Asylum), failed to stop the kill. Prometheus growing up resents Batman and the cop who killed his parents. So it's not just one mystery Batman has to solve, it's two with Hush & Prometheus. And Prometheus can take the Commander role which Arkham Knight has. Not to mention this triumvirate will keep Batman plenty busy, and may even stretch him thin if they recruit other rogues to join their cause to work together (a concept which Knight says, but never really properly implemented).
Including Prometheus presents the same problem as the Arkham Knight/Jason Todd addition. The audience isn't gonna care bc they never appeared until now. If you want a triumphant you could just use Deathstroke. He's somewhat still a physical match for Batman
Yeah, but promethius was mentioned in the previous arkham games through the character profiles so it wouldn't really be a mystery, and he'd be too simular to azrael
I'm fine with the Todd story and I woulda been fine with Hush. I feel like Todd is a better emotional story but Dini would've been a better narrative overall. Knight will stay my favorite Arkham game no matter the situation
I honestly think Jason is the better pick not only is he more personal to Batman but he’s also just a better character than Hush. The change I would’ve made is the timeline of the identity reveal. Instead my idea would be Jason confronts Batman alone at ACE Chemicals reveals himself and the rest of the game deep dives into how that effects Bruce and we get flashbacks fleshing it out And Bruce is being psychologically broken by Jason and Crane (fear toxin) No need for Joker blood transformation, just Bruce’s mind straight up breaking and going crazy, hallucinating Joker more and more Maybe it even leads to Bruce nearly killing Jason or Crane in a confrontation as well. Jason would’ve worked much better here because then you can further service his character, without veiling development behind a mystery
There was actually a reference to Jason Todd in Arkham Asylum. At the end of the medical facility section, Joker says "...Hell you can have Harley, seems like you could use a new sidekick."
@@b1ackspid3r43 Paul Dini never got that far according to his response on X. He said Rocksteady wanted to take some time off after City & when they started up again, they already had a story. He didn't even know about Harley Quinn's Revenge until he saw it an ad.
God I’m so happy you’re making a video on this!!! I rant about this to everyone whenever talking about the Arkham games because it would’ve been such an epic finale! The AUDACITY of rocksteady to go “mmm you know Paul Dini? The guy who wrote some of the best episodes of BTAS and also both of the stories for the games that made us?? Yeah, that Paul Dini. What if we just….canned his idea? lol.” Fools. Rapscallions. It all led up to them making that suicide squad game, and we all saw how that turned out!
Asylum has kind of a twist with Joker becoming a giant monster at the end. City has the (ultimately pointless) twists of clayface pretending to he Joker and Strange working for Al Ghul. They might have been scared of Knight not having a twist at the end, and that's why they went with Jason Todd instead of Paul Dini's original ideas.
I remember reading "a leak" just before Knight came out, which was the Knight was a clone of Bruce Wayne, which is why he knows Batman's techniques. They "hinted" at this, by the Cadmus sign in the steel mill in Arkham City's HQ DLC, which is not there in the main game.
I feel there's tons of little hints to storylines across City & Harley Quinn's Revenge that could've payed off in an epic odyssey of a plot in a 3rd Arkham game. Ideally, Arkham Knight's story would've been close to something like an RDR2 in length imo. Covering the League's return & Talia's resurrection, Harley's baby (instead of dropping that), Hush's grand plan, & Azrael factoring in the story.
I do like Hush and Scarecrow working together and would be fun, it could go like this: - Batman still gets hit with Fear Toxin in ACE Chemicals building (this would be important) - Jason I feel would still be needed to be involved but have him as a neutral party, have him initially happy to see Batman and make it an emotional moment as Jason believes the rumors about Batman killing Joker finally. However Jason notices something is off about Batman and notices Batman's eyes are flashing green like The Joker's. This causes Jason to try and kill Batman thinking somehow The Joker has taken over Batman in death with this logic backed up by Batman's gradual personality shifts in recent months that Jason has been following - Have Hush still get into Wayne Enterprises with the intent of taking Bruce's money to fund Scarecrow's operation to kill Batman by having it seem like Bruce Wayne has turned into a terrorist. Have Hush trick Lucious into opening the files and at this point Lucious assuming it is Bruce brings up Batman and the evening's threats. Hush figures out thanks to Lucious that Bruce Wayne is Batman and ends up leaving. Have actual Batman call Lucious a few minutes after this and let Lucious put everything together that he fucked up bigtime. - Batman has 3 villains, Jason assuming Batman has fallen to Joker, Hush and Scarecrow. Batman is forced to tell everyone what is going on with him due to his interaction with Jason and not having any other options, calls in Nightwing to deal with Jason given there history and how Jason looked up to him. We actually get to play as Nightwing while he tracks down Jason and eventually Nightwing is able to bring Jason back around and ask them to help get Bruce back under control - With new info, Scarecrow attacks Wayne Manor, raising the stakes and have Scarecrow kill Alfred (like actually Kill Alfred no illusion) With Batman's mind devastated Joker takes full control of Batman now, we play as a Jokerized Batman who battles Hush now; who is now dressing like Batman to mock Bruce. Ends poorly for Hush as he is crippled but Jokerized Batman makes a mistake; he takes off Hush's mask and turns him into the GCPD as everyone thinks that the Hush Batman is the actual real Batman and is Bruce Wayne and this violent version is Hush. Despite losing Hush has actual won as he is now Bruce Wayne to the public. - Jason, Nightwing and Robin team up to go after Jokerized Batman but are folded easily. This Batman is able to track down Scarecrow to take him down but Scarecrow gets the better of him, traps him and the end sequence of Arkham Knight plays out just like it did, this mad version of Batman exposed as Bruce Wayne, the public now confused. Have the internal struggle of Batman and Joker play out but instead of Batman breaking free, have Dick come in with Jason and Robin (Dick dressed like Batman) and take down Scarecrow, with Dick thanking Mr Wayne for his help due to the feed still being live to Gotham with Dick as Batman explaining to Scarecrow that Mr Wayne offered to help Batman after learning Hush hacked and stole his fortune and falsely believed that Bruce was Batman. This way Batman's identity is safe as the public byes this.
I think the theme of Arkham Knight, which worked well by having it be Jason Todd, is in Bruce's guilt in having to, as the Joker said, "drag your friends in this crazy, little game of ours." Jason Todd is the product of Bruce's fear. The cost of allowing allies to work along side him but being powerless to protect them. Just like what almost happened to barbara for the most of the game, and to tim drake at the end so you can see how it all ties together. That being said, wish they didn't lie about arkham knight being an original character and just have the villain be straight up red hood
Watching this, I think Hush and Scarecrow could've worked really well, but Jason should've been used at the end, just imagine, Batman being strapped to the slab at the asylum, unmasked for the cameras ,showing Crane he's not afraid. After a while of not being able to get a response out of Bruce, Scarecrow gives a signal, a secret door opens, a silhouette appears in the doorway, backlit by neon Jokers, torture devices just visible behind him, camera flashing back to Bruce, a look of realisation and horror on his face as Scarecrow monologues about what he found in the depths of Arkham Asylum. Next thing, we see the figure walking into the light, head covered by a burlap sack, stained red with blood, reaching up to pull it off, revealing Jason Todd's face.
I feel like it would make sense that after Hush studied Bruce Wayne's face for so long it'd make sense he'd see that one part of Batman's face in City and would've been wait Batman's Bruce Wayne. Then hearing of Scarecrow's plot to tarnish the Batman legacy he'd reveal the identity to scarecrow. They'd then plot to tarnish both the Batman and Wayne legacy so that Gotham would fully lose all hope.
11:08 I feel like joker wouldn’t least appear in one hallucination scene seeing as we had foreshadowing for the joker hallucination at the end of Mr freeze’s boss fight
You would really prefer a character that isn’t anything above C list or side quests material? Hush is a C lister at best and definitely isn’t worthy of concluding a trilogy. Jason Todd makes a lot more sense as a crucial antagonist for a finale of a series.
Okay, the reason as to why this plotline of scarecrow and Hush was most probably abondoned was because: 1) Arkham Batman knew who hush was and how he looked like behind his mask. The whole premises as to why Hush is a legitimate threat to batman is because of his envy and hatred for Bruce Wayne. He figured out Batman's identitiy because of his obsession over Bruce Wayne. Not the other way around. 2) Crane in the Arkham Asylum was experimenting with his fear toxin on patients and doctors alike, but after the incident with Killer croc, he has a epiphany as to what true fear feels like. Its being abondoned by someone who you trusted the most at your time of need. 3) While crane and Hush could have worked together, they on their own didn't have the means and the resources to threaten an whole city to evacuate using theatrics, while being impossible to track. Crane is intimidating, not evasive. And they on their own didn't have influence or intimidation to command obidience from other villains. 4) Crane would have seen Elliots obsession over bruce wayne as just another form of fear and envy and would have dosed him with his fear toxin instead of working with him. 5) Arkham Knight trained his militia to not fear batman, used tanks, mines, checkpoints, watchtower to monitor and control the city, and more than anything else, he did not fear Batman, and saw his the way scarecrow wanted him to become. They shared a common vision, but for different reasons. That's why scarecrow accpted and worked with him. One of the reasons as to why scarecrow acheved his goals is because he had enough time to execute his plans, which most of the villains in batman's rouge gallery are not fortunate to have when facing the Dark Knight. Something Arkham knight provided but Hush couldn't. Hush usually plans the long game, not the once in a lifetime opportunity kind of thing. Side note: HUSH would have been an excellent villain for GOTHAM KNIGHTS, because the game had a day and night cycle and each day a different event took place. Hush is know to orchestrate events from the shadows and play the long game. Him planning something from the criminal underground and as a main villain would have made a lot of sense.
Rocksteady definitely shouldn’t have gotten rid of Paul Dini and he totally should’ve written Arkham Knight. However, I like Scarecrow and the Arkham Knight being the main antagonists and I like that Jason Todd was the Arkham Knight. Hush definitely should’ve been better. Same with Deathstroke. I think if Paul Dini wrote the game then he could’ve made the execution with Jason and Hush better. Or maybe have Scarecrow, Hush, and the Arkham Knight be the main villains. Perhaps maybe the writer that ended up writing Arkham Knight, Geoff Johns, could have written the game but alongside Paul Dini. That’s just my take though. Also, I think Azrael’s side mission in Batman: Arkham Knight was actually great.
I think there is a ton they could have done to make it feel more cohesive. Even doing something like tracking down who kidnapped Barbara back to the abandoned Arkham Asylum. Using detective work to narrow it down that that’s where they’re hiding her because it’s been abandoned since the first game. And they could have called that Return to Arkham. Or like the mutants or some kind of new gang/faction operating out of the old asylum. Call it Arkham Uprising. You could have a lot of the similar missions in Kight’s Gotham, but then at some point you drive the Batmobile back to the asylum and go through some of the old buildings and levels with a new twist. Nostalgic and capturing the same atmosphere everybody loves, but with all new combat and stealth missions as Batman infiltrates. Could be part of the major climax, just a tasteful amount. Wouldn’t want to overdo the time at the asylum and be called lazy.
1 thing you have to give to the artist..he made a bad ass scarecrow in Knight..the original Scarecrow was more authentic in design but knight made the character design even better and how he became like that after encountering croc in Asylum
4:15 actually there are more references to Jason appearing in Batman Arkham than just that moment, since Arkham Asylum actually the moment that Harley has Gordon Joker tells us "if you get to Harley without alerting the guards i'll give you Gordon, hell i may even give you Harley because you probably need a new sidekick" meaning that Joker has Jason already and after that moment if you go to visit joker at the Visit room where the endgame takes place Joker will ask Batman if he punishes his helpers or if that silly outfit that they wear is already too much of a punishment
If I had to guess why Rocksteady chose Geoff Johns over Paul Dini, I'd say it is because Geoff Johns had so much power at the time. During the development and release of Arkham Knight, Geoff Johns was the Chief Creative Officer of DC Entertainment and became president of DC Entertainment a year after this game's release
No doubt Paul Dini's Arkham Knight idea would have been Way better with Hush and Scarecrow. Rocksteady's arkham knight was greatly disappointing for me .
It's funny to think that they setup and developed Hush way more than Jason, who wasn't even mentioned til AK... And Hush ended up being that errrrr thing that we got. Truly disappointing
@@SoyboyPeterhush was at least set up in Arkham city. Jason is literally not mentioned once throughout the series and now suddenly he is one of the main antagonists. Terrible writing.
@@friendlyreaper9012I mean that isnt a fair argument. Hugo Strange wasnt set up in Asylum at all. Doesnt mean he cant be the main antagonist. Sure setting up Arkham Knight wouldve helped make him a better villain, but not doing so doesnt make him bad. The whole Marvel post credit, set up thing has people thinking that its necessary for good writing. It isnt, it adds to it sure, but it isnt necessary. Arkham Knight was bad writing, but not because he wasnt set up
Paul dini killed joker in arkham city? No, it was sefton hill's idea to kill off joker, having joker die and haunt batman from beyond the grave was an idea he already had in mind since arkham city, that is why joker appears when you beat up mr. Freeze in his helmet, they foreshadowed it there. Paul dini wasn't the one who wanted joker to die, even before he got involved with the story of arkahm city, the first thing about the story that rocksteady had in mind is that the joker would die at the end of it, the "duality of man" painting with cain carrying abel, foreshadowing batman carying joker at the end is literally the first thing they created for arkham city, before they even started writing the story, so when they were writing the story with paul dini, they wrote it with that ending in mind, ensuring that the story leads up to the death of joker.
One thing I wish they did was not have the Batmobile as the main combat mechanic in the game. Let it be like the other 2 with most of it on foot. Use Batmobile sparingly. Not focus on it. Nice video.
That wouldnt make sense narratively though. If Knight brought a whole ass army for an invasion, Batman wouldnt just walk around, he’d use his best gadget to get rid of the army efficiently. Sure he could do it on foot, but wouldnt it be easier to just use the semi-bulletproof tank that he owns? Why wouldnt he. Canonically the story takes place in one night keep in mind, it wouldnt make sense for him to not use his fastest mode of transportation, as well as his strongest weapon as much as possible
@@baki484 Ignoring the fact the chases were some of the best parts of the batmobile, this wont make sense story wise either. You really mean to tell me that the Arkham Knight planned to take out Batman for years, decided to invade Gotham, recruited an army, joined with Scarecrow, yet did not bring armed vehicles to take over a whole city? What was the plan then? Just walk in and say that he’s taking over? How is that any different from what Two-Face or Penguin does?
This explains so much. I remember the beta for Knight being shown and the devs saying that the Arkham Knight was an all new character only for it to be Todd the next year. Johns is one of DC's classic writers that starts out hot (see early work up to his Green Lantern run) that gets too far out there (New 52 Justice League and beyond) to the point that it turns readers off. Looks like the third Arkham game fell to that too.
They could’ve had hush working with scarecrow, in exchange the militia storms Wayne manor, leading to a whole section of the story taking place there ending with batman suiting down in order to talk to hush and nightwing taking him down.
Honestly, they could have done hush, azreal, and scare crow as the big 3 villains Batman had to take down Azreal could have been the Arkham knight challenging Batman physically, hush challenging the legacy of Bruce Wayne, and scare crow challenging Batman and Bruce mentally, there could have been a side mission where we had to hunt down Harley and maybe Harley mocks Bruce by saying he never did find Jason’s body or something
Maybe Crane could have discovered Bruce Wayne’s identity through Hugo Strange’s files, and he would recruit Hush to take Wayne’s identity stripping Batman of his wealth and resources see Batman have to rely on his physical and psychological strength….
They could've just used both ideas for 2 different games. For arkham knight just have Jason as the main antagonist of the game and then for the 5th game, Arkham Hush, go with Paul Dini's idea and have Scarecrow and Hush. With Jason as the main antagonist I feel like there would be a lot more room to build him up as the arkham knight.
I didn't know this. The More You Know. Arkham Knight storyline was dope though. They built up for both storylines with foreshadowing. Guess they made a Heads or Tails bet on whos story goes
I always hoped the final villain of the Arkham saga would be a resurrected Amadeus Arkham brainwashed by Strange. The pieces were all there. Scarecrow should have been an independent agent, but I liked his first plan...the chemical bomb. Batman saving not only Gotham, but the entire east coast at the cost of his own life would have been an awesome way for him to go out and the rest of the game could have been the rest of the Bat Family finishing what Batman started.
Hush and Scarecrow worked together directly in Hush's debut storyline. I don't necessarily think the comic is a good model for the game's plotline, but they could have reworked it certainly. Heck, Jason Todd made his return (kinda, technically, according mostly to retcons) in the Hush story as well.
Jason could still work as an antagonist working with Scarecrow and Hush. Jason know Bruce is Batman and might ally with both Scarecrow and Hush to attack both the bat and the man at the same time.
It could have also incorporated the batfamily more have Hush be targeting Bruce Wayne through his children. Unlike in most media nightwing and Robin aren’t being targeted for being Batmans sidekicks but Dick and Tim are being targeted for being Bruce’s Kids hell you could still play around with Jason here as once again Bruce’s kids are in danger.
This is some crazy foreshadowing but also in the managers room in Arkham city you can find a positive pregnancy test next to Harley’s old suit. Maby if the new Arkham game being developed is set in the future we will see jokers kid 🤷🤷
They probably scrapped that idea because both Scarecrow and Hush aren’t big threats to Batman from a gameplay point of view and in general in terms or fighting ability. It’s the same reason Asylum was good up until the very end. The only way to make Joker a threat was to roid him up and it was a lack luster fight. Everything prior was good.
I know this sounds crazy, but what if Bruce Wayn and Hush work together. Then Bruce could continue to play Batman and Gotham would be confused as to who is who?
We likely could've gotten a Heart Of Hush adaptation as well if they used Dini's idea instead of John's. This genuinely would've been better and done Hush justice. Thomas Elliots character is someone who could out strategisize even Bruce Wayne even when they were kids and what Knight did was a disservice just like even the movie did
Knight frustrating with how the gameplay is the best it’ll ever be, just for the story to be an absolute nightmare. I don’t know what happened behind the scenes at rocksteady, but they should’ve just done whatever they could’ve just have Dini stay around to finish the story.
Scarecrow is my all time favorite character for anything. And hush is definitely up there on the list. This would have been such a fantastic game, that being said I do still enjoy arkham knight a lot minus the damn bat tank
Hey as long as Scarecrow is involved in order for the fear of the joker to be involved and round out the trilogy, I'm on board! The whole thing with getting those close to him killed as the theme with Jason was definitely the weakest point in the story and the fear toxin could affect Bruce to question the identity of Hush in the exact same way! Hell! If they really wanted to keep the story the same they could literally have had Jason be Hush and it STILL would have been better!!
I would combine both plots like the rewriter arkham knight rewrite Have Jason be the big bad controlling the scenes in front and behind. He connects the dots to why scarecrow and hush know eachother. As they are useful to reveal batmans identity and nake him afraid that no where is safe. Plus their motivations are similar. Eventhough jason wasnt foreshadowed, He is the reason why the villains except harley work together by force.
I would have had the game open similarly with Batman and the GCPD going after Scarecrow, and trying to stop him from detonating a chemical weapon in Gotham, but without the militia at Ace Chemicals; Have the situation essentially play out the same, but this time I would have Scarecrow actually defeat Batman by slipping him the gas and escaping, leaving Bruce to lower the blast radius and then he starts seeing the Joker. NOTE: IN MY VERSION, JOKER IS JUST A FEAR GAS HALLUCINATION; Batman isn't literally turning into Joker, that shit's dumb. THEN, act 2 of the game is where we get Hush. Thomas Elliot executes a plan to take down Bruce Wayne while Scarecrow has everyone distracted, and takes MOST of Wayne's resources away from him. Hush eventually finds out who Wayne is (either from some files from the office of Hugo Strange, If you want to tie it together to the rest of the series, or by hacking into Wayne's files and finding out himself as he's bricking Wayne Ent). Act 2 ends in a climactic battle with Hush, and Hush wins. In the final act, it's Batman is stripped of all of his resources, all of his money and gadgets. He operates out of a low-tech base in the clocktower ("The Belfry") alongside Oracle and Robin. The third act, Hush comes to Scarecrow with Batman's identity and they team up to destroy what's left of the legacy of the Batman. The game ends with Batman and his allies going up against the forces of Scarecrow & Hush, in a battle for the fate of Gotham. Just before the end, Bayman's identity is outed publicly as Bruce Wayne as a final attempt to destroy Batman's legacy, but Wayne decides to fight on regardless; proving that Batman is more than just the man in the suit but is a symbol that Justice can always triumph over villainy
Whoever idea it was to make the Batmobile a bigger focus in the Knight is the person that wanted to change everything. Hush commanding a massive army after being presented as a solo artist wouldn’t work with the Batmobile. Also, I can see a storyline where they have Hush and Scarecrow working together but separate to take down Batman. And a longer side mission with a mysterious figure lurking around Gotham trying to do the same. Keeping the Joker hallucinations to add to this alternate thread ending with a big fight between Jason Todd and his handler who should have been Deathstroke. 🤷🏽♂️ just my opinion but I like the game nevertheless. I like it more than City only because it takes Batman ages to get around Gotham in city and in Knight even without the Batmobile Batman moves around a lot quicker on a bigger map.
What I would have done is have Scarecrow, Ra's Al Ghul and Jason Todd as the main villains It would make Jason Todd returning much more natural, The LOA finds Jason in the abondoned Arkham wing and they use the lazarus pit to rejuvinate or revive him depending on the condition he's in, this makes him seem alot less "whiney" which alot of people didn't like because ontop of being tortured by joker, he has pitt madness It also makes the entire militia much more natural, A character like scarecrow doesn't really make sense to be involved with a group like the militia to me (even though it was moreso Jasons thing but still), but if you have Ra's involved then the enemy army can be the League of assassins For the plot, You could take alot from the original story line, you could say Talia wanted to use Jason to get closer to Bruce to convince him to become the leagues leader, or Ra's and Talia had him as a "backup" protege if Batman kept refusing to join, Both would work with how I'd personally expand on it After Arkham city, Ra's is mad, Talia is dead so she can't take over the league (assuming she can't be revived for some reason considering Batman didn't just jump to that conclusion in AC) and Batman has refused to take the league yet again, he wants a new apprentice because his time is nearly over, whats the next best thing to Batman - Robin, Jason would be willing to take over since the League took care if him and saved him and it makes sense for Ra's because Jason (In my opinion atleast) is the robin most simular to Batman This gives Jason a new identity before he becomes red hood Then with scarecrow him teaming up with Ra's and Jason works because their goal would be to kill batman Ra's because he's mad that Bruce "rejected" Talia and lead to her death from his point of view, And Jason and Scarecrow essentially having the same reason in the game with Hush you could make him a side mission (a better one than what we got in the main game) while yes he was set up you can also argue Ra's was as well, And I just don't think Hush would work as a main villain, especially if the story is anyhow simular to what it was in Arkham Knight
I dont think scarecrow/Hush knowing bruce wayne is Batman would make sense nor would they have a way to know. Scarecrow wants to destroy batman both figuratively and literally. Hush hates bruce wayne and wants to destroy his image. Them coming together to destroy the two most iconic ppl in gotham would be motivation enough to work together. If they already knew Batman's identity, they could reveal it 5 minutes into the game and they would've accomplished their goal. Batman being attacked on two fronts would make things compelling bc he can't defend Bruce Wayne while he's out being Batman and he can't fight Scarecrow/Hush if he's busy protecting his public image. One issue i could see arising from this story would be that, at least imo, the timelines of their revenge are not necessarily congruent. Scarecrow manages to take down Batman in one night whereas taking down Bruce Wayne would probably be more of a slow burn that would require time to carry out. Like i would imagine in this hypothetical scenario Hush would want to have Bruce Wayne captured and held as prisoner so he could watch Hush take his place and destroy his legacy - which would take more than one night and would end up being impossible since Bruce would escape to find hush/scarecrow. Ultimately it's still an interesting idea for what could've been
So not concerning the Arkham games, but heres a theory for The Batman movies with Robert Pattinson. The first movie ends with joker and riddler in Arkham saying they are friends. In the comics this is literally the set up for The War of Jokes and Riddles. The Batman also takes a lot of inspiration from Zero Year when riddler also floods gotham. The Penguin show is said to use plot points that were dropped for the second The Batman film. That show is setting up an all out gang war. So i think the second movie is centered around The War of Jokes and Riddles and will see not only riddler and joker return, but also other big villains from bats rogues gallery. The third film will reveal that most of this was the plan of the Court of Owls, with Tommy Elliot(HUSH) either being a talon or working with them in some capacity. Hush and owls were big teasers in the first film.
I enjoyed the story of Batman: Arkham Knight, but the one thing that bothered me was the Arkham Knight teaming up with the Scarecrow when he could have been an independent anti-hero. I think it would have been cooler if Jason tried to save Gotham from Scarecrow, but gets in conflict with Batman due to the destruction he leaves behind.
I think it would've worked stronger if Jason used Crane as a means to an end and planned to double cross him before the cloud burst. Like maybe have the whole Ace Chemicals level be just a trap for Bruce and that the fear gas bomb was altered by Jason so that it doesn't really take out much of Gotham once it blows so that once Bruce is hit with it and starts trippin the building is rigged to blow. But once survives it and Jason figures out that Crane's cloudburst is strong enough to take out half the country he defects and tries to use his army against Crane only for Deathstroke(maybe have him be the one in the tank during the cloudburst mission) to betray him and now Jason is a neutral party who is planning on stopping Crane and snuffing out Batman.
the why of the choices in the beginning is very simple. warner bros saw AK as a very important thing and decided to not give the writers full control. instead they took the edgiest batman villain they could think of (edgy characters are somehow favored i wonder why) and made paul dini include him as a main villain. paul dini said i aint doin none of that and just left the project. so in short the reason was warner loves edgy character so fucking much. look how much love they gave to harley quinn over the last few years.
Just a thought, I feel like crane should want to team up with hush over Jason bc of the similarities in what they want at the end of the day hush wants to bring down Bruce in every way mentally and physically and scarecrow wants the same but for Batman like u said instead of just teaming up with Jason just bc he knows Batman he could team up with Elliot bc he kinda knows Bruce making Arkham knight more dark and Psychological and bringing more threat to the lucius fox mission and the kidnapping of oracle they probably coukda did a better Jim kidnapping maybe attacked Wayne manor and since they wouldn’t have the militia bc of Jason Todd u wouldn’t need the Batmobile as much
Hush would have provided the resources to Scarecrow by pretending to be Bruce. 2 Villains with 2 enemies. Think how Lex teamed up with Joker to kill both their enemies. Here it's to ruin them. But they would have been unaware that they were targeting the same person till the unmasking and the fight over that would have been their undoing, not Jason coming to save the day.
7:41 I'd say that they'd work together by each of them destroy Bruce and Batman's life. Hush would ruin Bruce's life (Business, relationships, while SC ruins Batman's life.. I.E the city
The identity of Arkham Knight should’ve been more of a mystery to begin with and something Batman should’ve solved with multiple culprits theorized. But Jason Todd makes sense since he has this connection to joker which starts affecting Batman’s psyche. But I just don’t think it was executed well especially comparing it to the Under the Red Hood movie.
Idk how they could have done it but if Jason made an appearance in Arkham origins as robin then maybe the Arkham knight would have been better, it would still be obvious but at least it would have some build up
one thing you got wrong was about how paul dini killed off joker. the truth is sefton hill wanted to kill off talia and joker not dini. dini wanted to make more games and had no plans to kill them off at that point but yeah wb really wanted that. also dini was out the door and did not write the harley dlc either so baby joker?
The question for me is how they going to control the city because Jason have the tank without him they wouldn’t be any tanks and Batmobile wouldn’t have be in the game and with weapons either if they stuck with hush.
What if Hush found Hugo Strange's logs in Arkham City, revealing Bruce's identity. After that he approaches Crane to destroy Batman together from both identities, with Hush tarnishing Bruce's reputation while Crane tarnishes Batman's. Maybe that was Dini's way of connecting Hush and Crane?
69 likes... i can fix that
And you could still have a militia like force, with them being funded by Hush as he pretends to be Bruce Wayne. This gives Deathstroke more of a reason to be included instead of just tacked on at the end, it gives a chance for Lucius Fox to have a bigger role in the narrative, hell even Two Face and Penguin could’ve had more done for them because they both know Bruce Wayne and it could lead to some cool dialogue or interactions. Maybe they think he went nuts after being thrown in Arkham City or something, some cool wordbuilding could come out of it. It gives more room for them to flesh out the characters they showed off in AK, but never gave any real depth to
The Hush story would've been SOOOO PERFECT because it'd be both personal for Bruce and Batman
And guess what? Jason accomplishes that exact same thing except Jason is more worthy for finishing a series.
@@SoyboyPeterwhen exactly in the story Jason affected Bruce?
@@memiaszzinternetu6513 Jason’s fake death is literally the reason why Bruce is so protective of Tim. You should fucking know this.
@@memiaszzinternetu6513 also the whole reason Bruce took Jason under his wing is so that he doesn’t become a dangerous criminal, so Joker turned Jason into what Bruce would fear
@@SoyboyPeterIndeed Jason’s death is directly tied to how Batman is in the games. The change I would’ve made is instead have Jason reveal himself at ACE Chemicals at the beginning of the game and deep dive further in flashbacks and the psychological breaking of Bruce
Jason ties directly into Bruce’s fears whereas Hush really doesnt as nearly to a degree
Maybe you can still in someway tie Hush into the main story as well. Maybe it’s a sort of triumvirate instead, Scarecrow is the psychological threat, Jason is the more physical threat, and Hush is the shadowy manipulator threat (using the guise of Bruce Wayne to turn his life upside down).
I think that Jason could’ve made a great side character. You get reports from Cash on how someone is killing criminals. How people who witnessed it saw Jason move like someone who was trained by Batman. You build up Jason and see that Bruce discovers it’s Jason. They have a huge boss fight and by the end Jason helps the Batfamily.
I honestly like that the Arkham Knight was a main antagonist. Maybe they could’ve had Scarecrow, Hush, and Jason be the main antagonists.
I like ur idea but instead of makin it seem like he was trained by Batman to make it more interesting they should make it seem like he could rival Batman ofc Jason can’t but it would be more suspenseful bc people would be like okay so who tf can rival Batman, tbh they coulda had him workin with hush and scarecrow but more as a separate team like they’ll sometimes share information
Yeah, but that'd be way to simular to azrael, and if they have Jason Todd it wouldn't make any sense on why he isn't a major player in the story considering his connection to batman, they could have made it a triumvarite between Jason, Scarecrow and Hush but even then Hush and Scarecrow wouldn't have any chemistry, with Jason you can tell he's just using Scarecrow as a means to an end and then if Hush is using the same reason that'd just be cheap, Maybe Hush and Jason together without Scarecrow could work but I couldnt see all three of them together
@@somerandofromoregon If Arkham Knight was still the antagonist I'd prefer he be a new character as advertised while Jason returns as the Red Hood. Maybe the antagonist who switches sides in-between.
@@doge8606 Plus it'd fall into the same critique of the original game where Jason was working with villains.
Knight is a good game but I wish the story could have been better, Rocksteady getting rid of Paul Dini as the writer was a big mistake.
Tossing Dini aside is absolutely ludicrous and Knight would definitely have been better with him writing it
I'm gonna one up on Dini's pitch;
Make it a triumvirate of Scarecrow - Hush - Prometheus.
Having just Scarecrow and Hush while sounding okay would mean scrapping the entire militia invading storyline of Knight.
So I'd set it up as following;
- Scarecrow; obviously wanting revenge on Batman of what happened to him back in Asylum
- Hush; wanting vengeance on Bruce Wayne (for Thomas saving his mother) and Gotham city overall to be in ruins due to it not giving what he deserves.
- Prometheus; Prometheus's origins stems from his parents who are criminals being killed by cops. Have a flashback scene where Batman (who sometime before Arkham Asylum), failed to stop the kill. Prometheus growing up resents Batman and the cop who killed his parents.
So it's not just one mystery Batman has to solve, it's two with Hush & Prometheus.
And Prometheus can take the Commander role which Arkham Knight has.
Not to mention this triumvirate will keep Batman plenty busy, and may even stretch him thin if they recruit other rogues to join their cause to work together (a concept which Knight says, but never really properly implemented).
how are your comments 4 days ago when he video released 16 minutes ago
@@AmusedCows-rl1nm hes a member
@@darthpalpaduck oh
Including Prometheus presents the same problem as the Arkham Knight/Jason Todd addition. The audience isn't gonna care bc they never appeared until now. If you want a triumphant you could just use Deathstroke. He's somewhat still a physical match for Batman
Yeah, but promethius was mentioned in the previous arkham games through the character profiles so it wouldn't really be a mystery, and he'd be too simular to azrael
I always wondered what the original city sequel would have been. Hush, Azrael, calendar man, scarecrow, Harley...
Calendar man’s escape in arkham city was always unsettling to me
@@darkyozora1222 wait ESCAPE!
@@Therealgrimreaperintheflesh yea after talking to him on certain days he escapes arkham city by leaving a murdered inmate in his place in his cell.
@@darkyozora1222bro what 😂😂😂😂
@@brandonkukumayeyi6048 no literally its even a trophy in arkham city
I'm fine with the Todd story and I woulda been fine with Hush. I feel like Todd is a better emotional story but Dini would've been a better narrative overall. Knight will stay my favorite Arkham game no matter the situation
Eyyy batman who giggles is on there
I honestly think Jason is the better pick not only is he more personal to Batman but he’s also just a better character than Hush.
The change I would’ve made is the timeline of the identity reveal.
Instead my idea would be Jason confronts Batman alone at ACE Chemicals reveals himself and the rest of the game deep dives into how that effects Bruce and we get flashbacks fleshing it out
And Bruce is being psychologically broken by Jason and Crane (fear toxin)
No need for Joker blood transformation, just Bruce’s mind straight up breaking and going crazy, hallucinating Joker more and more
Maybe it even leads to Bruce nearly killing Jason or Crane in a confrontation as well.
Jason would’ve worked much better here because then you can further service his character, without veiling development behind a mystery
There was actually a reference to Jason Todd in Arkham Asylum. At the end of the medical facility section, Joker says "...Hell you can have Harley, seems like you could use a new sidekick."
I guess they were originally thinking of Asylum as a pre-Tim story because later addition to the canon would show Tim was already Robin by that game.
I would love to see Paul Dini’s script for Arkham Knight to see what the game could’ve been
Seeing that script would make a man suicidal for what could have been
He probably never had a script, just some early ideas for what he might have done
@@Kpengie even that would do. I just would want to see his original idea for the game
@@b1ackspid3r43 Paul Dini never got that far according to his response on X. He said Rocksteady wanted to take some time off after City & when they started up again, they already had a story. He didn't even know about Harley Quinn's Revenge until he saw it an ad.
Good Vid and Congrats on hitting 100k🎉
God I’m so happy you’re making a video on this!!! I rant about this to everyone whenever talking about the Arkham games because it would’ve been such an epic finale! The AUDACITY of rocksteady to go “mmm you know Paul Dini? The guy who wrote some of the best episodes of BTAS and also both of the stories for the games that made us?? Yeah, that Paul Dini. What if we just….canned his idea? lol.” Fools. Rapscallions. It all led up to them making that suicide squad game, and we all saw how that turned out!
Asylum has kind of a twist with Joker becoming a giant monster at the end. City has the (ultimately pointless) twists of clayface pretending to he Joker and Strange working for Al Ghul. They might have been scared of Knight not having a twist at the end, and that's why they went with Jason Todd instead of Paul Dini's original ideas.
Citys is less pointless compared to Knight and Kill The Justice League
Knight was the twist that everyone figured out before the game came out lol
I remember reading "a leak" just before Knight came out, which was the Knight was a clone of Bruce Wayne, which is why he knows Batman's techniques.
They "hinted" at this, by the Cadmus sign in the steel mill in Arkham City's HQ DLC, which is not there in the main game.
I feel there's tons of little hints to storylines across City & Harley Quinn's Revenge that could've payed off in an epic odyssey of a plot in a 3rd Arkham game.
Ideally, Arkham Knight's story would've been close to something like an RDR2 in length imo. Covering the League's return & Talia's resurrection, Harley's baby (instead of dropping that), Hush's grand plan, & Azrael factoring in the story.
I do like Hush and Scarecrow working together and would be fun, it could go like this:
- Batman still gets hit with Fear Toxin in ACE Chemicals building (this would be important)
- Jason I feel would still be needed to be involved but have him as a neutral party, have him initially happy to see Batman and make it an emotional moment as Jason believes the rumors about Batman killing Joker finally. However Jason notices something is off about Batman and notices Batman's eyes are flashing green like The Joker's. This causes Jason to try and kill Batman thinking somehow The Joker has taken over Batman in death with this logic backed up by Batman's gradual personality shifts in recent months that Jason has been following
- Have Hush still get into Wayne Enterprises with the intent of taking Bruce's money to fund Scarecrow's operation to kill Batman by having it seem like Bruce Wayne has turned into a terrorist. Have Hush trick Lucious into opening the files and at this point Lucious assuming it is Bruce brings up Batman and the evening's threats. Hush figures out thanks to Lucious that Bruce Wayne is Batman and ends up leaving. Have actual Batman call Lucious a few minutes after this and let Lucious put everything together that he fucked up bigtime.
- Batman has 3 villains, Jason assuming Batman has fallen to Joker, Hush and Scarecrow. Batman is forced to tell everyone what is going on with him due to his interaction with Jason and not having any other options, calls in Nightwing to deal with Jason given there history and how Jason looked up to him. We actually get to play as Nightwing while he tracks down Jason and eventually Nightwing is able to bring Jason back around and ask them to help get Bruce back under control
- With new info, Scarecrow attacks Wayne Manor, raising the stakes and have Scarecrow kill Alfred (like actually Kill Alfred no illusion) With Batman's mind devastated Joker takes full control of Batman now, we play as a Jokerized Batman who battles Hush now; who is now dressing like Batman to mock Bruce. Ends poorly for Hush as he is crippled but Jokerized Batman makes a mistake; he takes off Hush's mask and turns him into the GCPD as everyone thinks that the Hush Batman is the actual real Batman and is Bruce Wayne and this violent version is Hush. Despite losing Hush has actual won as he is now Bruce Wayne to the public.
- Jason, Nightwing and Robin team up to go after Jokerized Batman but are folded easily. This Batman is able to track down Scarecrow to take him down but Scarecrow gets the better of him, traps him and the end sequence of Arkham Knight plays out just like it did, this mad version of Batman exposed as Bruce Wayne, the public now confused. Have the internal struggle of Batman and Joker play out but instead of Batman breaking free, have Dick come in with Jason and Robin (Dick dressed like Batman) and take down Scarecrow, with Dick thanking Mr Wayne for his help due to the feed still being live to Gotham with Dick as Batman explaining to Scarecrow that Mr Wayne offered to help Batman after learning Hush hacked and stole his fortune and falsely believed that Bruce was Batman. This way Batman's identity is safe as the public byes this.
That’s actually a pretty interesting story
They should have let you write the game fam 💯
I think the theme of Arkham Knight, which worked well by having it be Jason Todd, is in Bruce's guilt in having to, as the Joker said, "drag your friends in this crazy, little game of ours."
Jason Todd is the product of Bruce's fear. The cost of allowing allies to work along side him but being powerless to protect them. Just like what almost happened to barbara for the most of the game, and to tim drake at the end so you can see how it all ties together.
That being said, wish they didn't lie about arkham knight being an original character and just have the villain be straight up red hood
Hush could gain access to Bruce Wayne’s money and pretend to be Bruce Wayne to a much larger scale like using his money to build an army
Hush and Scarecrow had teamed up in the comic Heart of Hush. Crane was actually Hush’s therapist when Hush was a kid.
Watching this, I think Hush and Scarecrow could've worked really well, but Jason should've been used at the end, just imagine, Batman being strapped to the slab at the asylum, unmasked for the cameras ,showing Crane he's not afraid. After a while of not being able to get a response out of Bruce, Scarecrow gives a signal, a secret door opens, a silhouette appears in the doorway, backlit by neon Jokers, torture devices just visible behind him, camera flashing back to Bruce, a look of realisation and horror on his face as Scarecrow monologues about what he found in the depths of Arkham Asylum. Next thing, we see the figure walking into the light, head covered by a burlap sack, stained red with blood, reaching up to pull it off, revealing Jason Todd's face.
Igh hear me out they should have Paul come back make the game and call it Batman Arkham knight paul edition
Rocksteady should hire you
@@joacotaco4772 appreciate it I would have them make a game like Arkham asylum but longer basically Batman gotta go against 57 of his enemies
I feel like it would make sense that after Hush studied Bruce Wayne's face for so long it'd make sense he'd see that one part of Batman's face in City and would've been wait Batman's Bruce Wayne. Then hearing of Scarecrow's plot to tarnish the Batman legacy he'd reveal the identity to scarecrow. They'd then plot to tarnish both the Batman and Wayne legacy so that Gotham would fully lose all hope.
11:08 I feel like joker wouldn’t least appear in one hallucination scene seeing as we had foreshadowing for the joker hallucination at the end of Mr freeze’s boss fight
Wouldn't he still have the joker blood in him?
I would have loved Paul's story way better than the trash writing that Rocksteady messed up
You would really prefer a character that isn’t anything above C list or side quests material? Hush is a C lister at best and definitely isn’t worthy of concluding a trilogy. Jason Todd makes a lot more sense as a crucial antagonist for a finale of a series.
@@SoyboyPeterThats why Rocksteady kept yapping about original character,but instead they made Red Hood with mechanised voice lmao.
@@SoyboyPeter Ah yes arkham Jason Todd. Boy he sucks compared to the under the red hood version.
@@memiaszzinternetu6513 Arkham Knight isn’t Red Hood. They have very little similarities. Also that has nothing to do with the game by itself.
@@SoyboyPeter you probably didnt read batman hush right?
Okay, the reason as to why this plotline of scarecrow and Hush was most probably abondoned was because:
1) Arkham Batman knew who hush was and how he looked like behind his mask. The whole premises as to why Hush is a legitimate threat to batman is because of his envy and hatred for Bruce Wayne. He figured out Batman's identitiy because of his obsession over Bruce Wayne. Not the other way around.
2) Crane in the Arkham Asylum was experimenting with his fear toxin on patients and doctors alike, but after the incident with Killer croc, he has a epiphany as to what true fear feels like. Its being abondoned by someone who you trusted the most at your time of need.
3) While crane and Hush could have worked together, they on their own didn't have the means and the resources to threaten an whole city to evacuate using theatrics, while being impossible to track. Crane is intimidating, not evasive. And they on their own didn't have influence or intimidation to command obidience from other villains.
4) Crane would have seen Elliots obsession over bruce wayne as just another form of fear and envy and would have dosed him with his fear toxin instead of working with him.
5) Arkham Knight trained his militia to not fear batman, used tanks, mines, checkpoints, watchtower to monitor and control the city, and more than anything else, he did not fear Batman, and saw his the way scarecrow wanted him to become. They shared a common vision, but for different reasons. That's why scarecrow accpted and worked with him.
One of the reasons as to why scarecrow acheved his goals is because he had enough time to execute his plans, which most of the villains in batman's rouge gallery are not fortunate to have when facing the Dark Knight. Something Arkham knight provided but Hush couldn't. Hush usually plans the long game, not the once in a lifetime opportunity kind of thing.
Side note: HUSH would have been an excellent villain for GOTHAM KNIGHTS, because the game had a day and night cycle and each day a different event took place. Hush is know to orchestrate events from the shadows and play the long game. Him planning something from the criminal underground and as a main villain would have made a lot of sense.
when i was a kid i thought the red hood was two face when i first played it
Yeah same I thought it was Robin in a different suit
@@Sweetlikebutter well u were correct
And now you're 14? So you're still a kid.
GP UPLOAD LETS GOOOO
Batman: End of Arkham
That would’ve been an amazing title.
"Arkham endgame"
Marvel fans: 💀
Rocksteady definitely shouldn’t have gotten rid of Paul Dini and he totally should’ve written Arkham Knight. However, I like Scarecrow and the Arkham Knight being the main antagonists and I like that Jason Todd was the Arkham Knight. Hush definitely should’ve been better. Same with Deathstroke. I think if Paul Dini wrote the game then he could’ve made the execution with Jason and Hush better. Or maybe have Scarecrow, Hush, and the Arkham Knight be the main villains.
Perhaps maybe the writer that ended up writing Arkham Knight, Geoff Johns, could have written the game but alongside Paul Dini. That’s just my take though.
Also, I think Azrael’s side mission in Batman: Arkham Knight was actually great.
I think there is a ton they could have done to make it feel more cohesive.
Even doing something like tracking down who kidnapped Barbara back to the abandoned Arkham Asylum. Using detective work to narrow it down that that’s where they’re hiding her because it’s been abandoned since the first game. And they could have called that Return to Arkham.
Or like the mutants or some kind of new gang/faction operating out of the old asylum. Call it Arkham Uprising.
You could have a lot of the similar missions in Kight’s Gotham, but then at some point you drive the Batmobile back to the asylum and go through some of the old buildings and levels with a new twist. Nostalgic and capturing the same atmosphere everybody loves, but with all new combat and stealth missions as Batman infiltrates.
Could be part of the major climax, just a tasteful amount. Wouldn’t want to overdo the time at the asylum and be called lazy.
1 thing you have to give to the artist..he made a bad ass scarecrow in Knight..the original Scarecrow was more authentic in design but knight made the character design even better and how he became like that after encountering croc in Asylum
4:15 actually there are more references to Jason appearing in Batman Arkham than just that moment, since Arkham Asylum actually the moment that Harley has Gordon Joker tells us "if you get to Harley without alerting the guards i'll give you Gordon, hell i may even give you Harley because you probably need a new sidekick" meaning that Joker has Jason already and after that moment if you go to visit joker at the Visit room where the endgame takes place Joker will ask Batman if he punishes his helpers or if that silly outfit that they wear is already too much of a punishment
Arkham Knight disappointed me so much because I had no Internet and thought that hush will be the main Villain in Arkham Knight
If I had to guess why Rocksteady chose Geoff Johns over Paul Dini, I'd say it is because Geoff Johns had so much power at the time. During the development and release of Arkham Knight, Geoff Johns was the Chief Creative Officer of DC Entertainment and became president of DC Entertainment a year after this game's release
I think all 3 taking on batman would have been a crazy story
No doubt Paul Dini's Arkham Knight idea would have been Way better with Hush and Scarecrow. Rocksteady's arkham knight was greatly disappointing for me .
It's funny to think that they setup and developed Hush way more than Jason, who wasn't even mentioned til AK... And Hush ended up being that errrrr thing that we got. Truly disappointing
But hush isn’t an iconic Batman villain that’s actually worthy of concluding a series. To be honest, Scarecrow isn’t either.
@@SoyboyPeter Scarecrow is iconic, he is the literal reason why "I am vengeance, I am the night, I am Batman!" qoute exists.
@@SoyboyPeter You sound like a new comic fan.
@@SoyboyPeterhush was at least set up in Arkham city. Jason is literally not mentioned once throughout the series and now suddenly he is one of the main antagonists. Terrible writing.
@@friendlyreaper9012I mean that isnt a fair argument. Hugo Strange wasnt set up in Asylum at all. Doesnt mean he cant be the main antagonist. Sure setting up Arkham Knight wouldve helped make him a better villain, but not doing so doesnt make him bad. The whole Marvel post credit, set up thing has people thinking that its necessary for good writing. It isnt, it adds to it sure, but it isnt necessary. Arkham Knight was bad writing, but not because he wasnt set up
Scarecrow AND Hush?! Way more awesome
Paul dini killed joker in arkham city? No, it was sefton hill's idea to kill off joker, having joker die and haunt batman from beyond the grave was an idea he already had in mind since arkham city, that is why joker appears when you beat up mr. Freeze in his helmet, they foreshadowed it there. Paul dini wasn't the one who wanted joker to die, even before he got involved with the story of arkahm city, the first thing about the story that rocksteady had in mind is that the joker would die at the end of it, the "duality of man" painting with cain carrying abel, foreshadowing batman carying joker at the end is literally the first thing they created for arkham city, before they even started writing the story, so when they were writing the story with paul dini, they wrote it with that ending in mind, ensuring that the story leads up to the death of joker.
Excited for this video cuz I've always wanted to know what Paul Dini's version would've looked like.
They should do a Paul Dini's Cut of Batman: Arkham Knight.
One thing I wish they did was not have the Batmobile as the main combat mechanic in the game. Let it be like the other 2 with most of it on foot. Use Batmobile sparingly. Not focus on it. Nice video.
That wouldnt make sense narratively though. If Knight brought a whole ass army for an invasion, Batman wouldnt just walk around, he’d use his best gadget to get rid of the army efficiently. Sure he could do it on foot, but wouldnt it be easier to just use the semi-bulletproof tank that he owns? Why wouldnt he. Canonically the story takes place in one night keep in mind, it wouldnt make sense for him to not use his fastest mode of transportation, as well as his strongest weapon as much as possible
Use it 3 times in the story tops no militia bombs, drones and chases.
@@baki484 Ignoring the fact the chases were some of the best parts of the batmobile, this wont make sense story wise either.
You really mean to tell me that the Arkham Knight planned to take out Batman for years, decided to invade Gotham, recruited an army, joined with Scarecrow, yet did not bring armed vehicles to take over a whole city? What was the plan then? Just walk in and say that he’s taking over? How is that any different from what Two-Face or Penguin does?
I like arkham with my issus being the story and Lack of bosses (due to the batmobile) the rest? Combat, stealth, traversal, performance and visuals.
Petition to get paldini to write the script for what was supposed to be the 3rd Arkham game
This explains so much. I remember the beta for Knight being shown and the devs saying that the Arkham Knight was an all new character only for it to be Todd the next year. Johns is one of DC's classic writers that starts out hot (see early work up to his Green Lantern run) that gets too far out there (New 52 Justice League and beyond) to the point that it turns readers off. Looks like the third Arkham game fell to that too.
They could’ve had hush working with scarecrow, in exchange the militia storms Wayne manor, leading to a whole section of the story taking place there ending with batman suiting down in order to talk to hush and nightwing taking him down.
Again an amazing video by the one and only himself
When I first heard the Arkham knight speaking I was really thinking oh man what if it’s Damian Wayne also Spider-Man 2000 ps1 great video man
Honestly, they could have done hush, azreal, and scare crow as the big 3 villains Batman had to take down
Azreal could have been the Arkham knight challenging Batman physically, hush challenging the legacy of Bruce Wayne, and scare crow challenging Batman and Bruce mentally, there could have been a side mission where we had to hunt down Harley and maybe Harley mocks Bruce by saying he never did find Jason’s body or something
Maybe Crane could have discovered Bruce Wayne’s identity through Hugo Strange’s files, and he would recruit Hush to take Wayne’s identity stripping Batman of his wealth and resources see Batman have to rely on his physical and psychological strength….
They could've just used both ideas for 2 different games. For arkham knight just have Jason as the main antagonist of the game and then for the 5th game, Arkham Hush, go with Paul Dini's idea and have Scarecrow and Hush. With Jason as the main antagonist I feel like there would be a lot more room to build him up as the arkham knight.
Read Heart of Hush for a Scarecrow/Hush team up
I didn't know this. The More You Know. Arkham Knight storyline was dope though. They built up for both storylines with foreshadowing. Guess they made a Heads or Tails bet on whos story goes
I always hoped the final villain of the Arkham saga would be a resurrected Amadeus Arkham brainwashed by Strange. The pieces were all there. Scarecrow should have been an independent agent, but I liked his first plan...the chemical bomb. Batman saving not only Gotham, but the entire east coast at the cost of his own life would have been an awesome way for him to go out and the rest of the game could have been the rest of the Bat Family finishing what Batman started.
Hush and Scarecrow worked together directly in Hush's debut storyline. I don't necessarily think the comic is a good model for the game's plotline, but they could have reworked it certainly. Heck, Jason Todd made his return (kinda, technically, according mostly to retcons) in the Hush story as well.
Whilst watching this video a spoonful of my cereal came out looking like Scarecrows mask not joking.
Jason could still work as an antagonist working with Scarecrow and Hush. Jason know Bruce is Batman and might ally with both Scarecrow and Hush to attack both the bat and the man at the same time.
It could have also incorporated the batfamily more have Hush be targeting Bruce Wayne through his children. Unlike in most media nightwing and Robin aren’t being targeted for being Batmans sidekicks but Dick and Tim are being targeted for being Bruce’s Kids hell you could still play around with Jason here as once again Bruce’s kids are in danger.
This is some crazy foreshadowing but also in the managers room in Arkham city you can find a positive pregnancy test next to Harley’s old suit. Maby if the new Arkham game being developed is set in the future we will see jokers kid 🤷🤷
They probably scrapped that idea because both Scarecrow and Hush aren’t big threats to Batman from a gameplay point of view and in general in terms or fighting ability.
It’s the same reason Asylum was good up until the very end. The only way to make Joker a threat was to roid him up and it was a lack luster fight. Everything prior was good.
I know this sounds crazy, but what if Bruce Wayn and Hush work together. Then Bruce could continue to play Batman and Gotham would be confused as to who is who?
Hush has a massive hate boner for Bruce, why would they work together?
We likely could've gotten a Heart Of Hush adaptation as well if they used Dini's idea instead of John's. This genuinely would've been better and done Hush justice. Thomas Elliots character is someone who could out strategisize even Bruce Wayne even when they were kids and what Knight did was a disservice just like even the movie did
Knight frustrating with how the gameplay is the best it’ll ever be, just for the story to be an absolute nightmare. I don’t know what happened behind the scenes at rocksteady, but they should’ve just done whatever they could’ve just have Dini stay around to finish the story.
Scarecrow is my all time favorite character for anything. And hush is definitely up there on the list. This would have been such a fantastic game, that being said I do still enjoy arkham knight a lot minus the damn bat tank
This man should make an Arkham game
"234 vie-" *shoots the guy in the face repeatedly*
Hey as long as Scarecrow is involved in order for the fear of the joker to be involved and round out the trilogy, I'm on board! The whole thing with getting those close to him killed as the theme with Jason was definitely the weakest point in the story and the fear toxin could affect Bruce to question the identity of Hush in the exact same way! Hell! If they really wanted to keep the story the same they could literally have had Jason be Hush and it STILL would have been better!!
Great job 👏 , i like it
I would combine both plots like the rewriter arkham knight rewrite Have Jason be the big bad controlling the scenes in front and behind. He connects the dots to why scarecrow and hush know eachother. As they are useful to reveal batmans identity and nake him afraid that no where is safe. Plus their motivations are similar. Eventhough jason wasnt foreshadowed, He is the reason why the villains except harley work together by force.
I would have had the game open similarly with Batman and the GCPD going after Scarecrow, and trying to stop him from detonating a chemical weapon in Gotham, but without the militia at Ace Chemicals;
Have the situation essentially play out the same, but this time I would have Scarecrow actually defeat Batman by slipping him the gas and escaping, leaving Bruce to lower the blast radius and then he starts seeing the Joker.
NOTE: IN MY VERSION, JOKER IS JUST A FEAR GAS HALLUCINATION; Batman isn't literally turning into Joker, that shit's dumb.
THEN, act 2 of the game is where we get Hush. Thomas Elliot executes a plan to take down Bruce Wayne while Scarecrow has everyone distracted, and takes MOST of Wayne's resources away from him.
Hush eventually finds out who Wayne is (either from some files from the office of Hugo Strange, If you want to tie it together to the rest of the series, or by hacking into Wayne's files and finding out himself as he's bricking Wayne Ent).
Act 2 ends in a climactic battle with Hush, and Hush wins.
In the final act, it's Batman is stripped of all of his resources, all of his money and gadgets. He operates out of a low-tech base in the clocktower ("The Belfry") alongside Oracle and Robin.
The third act, Hush comes to Scarecrow with Batman's identity and they team up to destroy what's left of the legacy of the Batman.
The game ends with Batman and his allies going up against the forces of Scarecrow & Hush, in a battle for the fate of Gotham.
Just before the end, Bayman's identity is outed publicly as Bruce Wayne as a final attempt to destroy Batman's legacy, but Wayne decides to fight on regardless; proving that Batman is more than just the man in the suit but is a symbol that Justice can always triumph over villainy
Whoever idea it was to make the Batmobile a bigger focus in the Knight is the person that wanted to change everything. Hush commanding a massive army after being presented as a solo artist wouldn’t work with the Batmobile.
Also, I can see a storyline where they have Hush and Scarecrow working together but separate to take down Batman. And a longer side mission with a mysterious figure lurking around Gotham trying to do the same. Keeping the Joker hallucinations to add to this alternate thread ending with a big fight between Jason Todd and his handler who should have been Deathstroke.
🤷🏽♂️ just my opinion but I like the game nevertheless.
I like it more than City only because it takes Batman ages to get around Gotham in city and in Knight even without the Batmobile Batman moves around a lot quicker on a bigger map.
Congratulations on hitting 100k subscribers. Are you going to keep making DC comics cotent?
Of course haha
The best way is to have them figure out that Bruce Wayne funds Batman and that is why they team up
I think if it had hush in it. It could be Batman Arkham Hush
What I would have done is have Scarecrow, Ra's Al Ghul and Jason Todd as the main villains
It would make Jason Todd returning much more natural, The LOA finds Jason in the abondoned Arkham wing and they use the lazarus pit to rejuvinate or revive him depending on the condition he's in, this makes him seem alot less "whiney" which alot of people didn't like because ontop of being tortured by joker, he has pitt madness
It also makes the entire militia much more natural, A character like scarecrow doesn't really make sense to be involved with a group like the militia to me (even though it was moreso Jasons thing but still), but if you have Ra's involved then the enemy army can be the League of assassins
For the plot, You could take alot from the original story line, you could say Talia wanted to use Jason to get closer to Bruce to convince him to become the leagues leader, or Ra's and Talia had him as a "backup" protege if Batman kept refusing to join, Both would work with how I'd personally expand on it
After Arkham city, Ra's is mad, Talia is dead so she can't take over the league (assuming she can't be revived for some reason considering Batman didn't just jump to that conclusion in AC) and Batman has refused to take the league yet again, he wants a new apprentice because his time is nearly over, whats the next best thing to Batman - Robin, Jason would be willing to take over since the League took care if him and saved him and it makes sense for Ra's because Jason (In my opinion atleast) is the robin most simular to Batman
This gives Jason a new identity before he becomes red hood
Then with scarecrow him teaming up with Ra's and Jason works because their goal would be to kill batman
Ra's because he's mad that Bruce "rejected" Talia and lead to her death from his point of view, And Jason and Scarecrow essentially having the same reason in the game
with Hush you could make him a side mission (a better one than what we got in the main game) while yes he was set up you can also argue Ra's was as well, And I just don't think Hush would work as a main villain, especially if the story is anyhow simular to what it was in Arkham Knight
I dont think scarecrow/Hush knowing bruce wayne is Batman would make sense nor would they have a way to know. Scarecrow wants to destroy batman both figuratively and literally. Hush hates bruce wayne and wants to destroy his image. Them coming together to destroy the two most iconic ppl in gotham would be motivation enough to work together. If they already knew Batman's identity, they could reveal it 5 minutes into the game and they would've accomplished their goal. Batman being attacked on two fronts would make things compelling bc he can't defend Bruce Wayne while he's out being Batman and he can't fight Scarecrow/Hush if he's busy protecting his public image. One issue i could see arising from this story would be that, at least imo, the timelines of their revenge are not necessarily congruent. Scarecrow manages to take down Batman in one night whereas taking down Bruce Wayne would probably be more of a slow burn that would require time to carry out. Like i would imagine in this hypothetical scenario Hush would want to have Bruce Wayne captured and held as prisoner so he could watch Hush take his place and destroy his legacy - which would take more than one night and would end up being impossible since Bruce would escape to find hush/scarecrow. Ultimately it's still an interesting idea for what could've been
Great vid gp
Goddammit rocksteady , you should have let paul dini cook .
So not concerning the Arkham games, but heres a theory for The Batman movies with Robert Pattinson.
The first movie ends with joker and riddler in Arkham saying they are friends. In the comics this is literally the set up for The War of Jokes and Riddles. The Batman also takes a lot of inspiration from Zero Year when riddler also floods gotham.
The Penguin show is said to use plot points that were dropped for the second The Batman film. That show is setting up an all out gang war.
So i think the second movie is centered around The War of Jokes and Riddles and will see not only riddler and joker return, but also other big villains from bats rogues gallery.
The third film will reveal that most of this was the plan of the Court of Owls, with Tommy Elliot(HUSH) either being a talon or working with them in some capacity.
Hush and owls were big teasers in the first film.
Kiteman hell yeah!
I enjoyed the story of Batman: Arkham Knight, but the one thing that bothered me was the Arkham Knight teaming up with the Scarecrow when he could have been an independent anti-hero. I think it would have been cooler if Jason tried to save Gotham from Scarecrow, but gets in conflict with Batman due to the destruction he leaves behind.
I think it would've worked stronger if Jason used Crane as a means to an end and planned to double cross him before the cloud burst.
Like maybe have the whole Ace Chemicals level be just a trap for Bruce and that the fear gas bomb was altered by Jason so that it doesn't really take out much of Gotham once it blows so that once Bruce is hit with it and starts trippin the building is rigged to blow.
But once survives it and Jason figures out that Crane's cloudburst is strong enough to take out half the country he defects and tries to use his army against Crane only for Deathstroke(maybe have him be the one in the tank during the cloudburst mission) to betray him and now Jason is a neutral party who is planning on stopping Crane and snuffing out Batman.
The knight could have been an og villain new to us but not to Bruce he may said person perhaps from his training days
Arkham asylum kinda set up Jason just a reference tho the wheelchair
the why of the choices in the beginning is very simple. warner bros saw AK as a very important thing and decided to not give the writers full control. instead they took the edgiest batman villain they could think of (edgy characters are somehow favored i wonder why) and made paul dini include him as a main villain. paul dini said i aint doin none of that and just left the project.
so in short the reason was warner loves edgy character so fucking much. look how much love they gave to harley quinn over the last few years.
Knight was such a disappointment.
SAVE US, MATT! SAVE US!!!
They could have made the arkham knight introduce hush and scarecrow
i don't think Arkham Knight is that bad but this original version does sound interesting
Just a thought, I feel like crane should want to team up with hush over Jason bc of the similarities in what they want at the end of the day hush wants to bring down Bruce in every way mentally and physically and scarecrow wants the same but for Batman like u said instead of just teaming up with Jason just bc he knows Batman he could team up with Elliot bc he kinda knows Bruce making Arkham knight more dark and
Psychological and bringing more threat to the lucius fox mission and the kidnapping of oracle they probably coukda did a better Jim kidnapping maybe attacked Wayne manor and since they wouldn’t have the militia bc of Jason Todd u wouldn’t need the Batmobile as much
Hush still could have been Arkham Knight. Imagine he pulls of the mask and it’s Bruce Wayne instead off Jason.
Paul dini also wrote the caped crusader tv show unfortunately
Hush would have provided the resources to Scarecrow by pretending to be Bruce. 2 Villains with 2 enemies. Think how Lex teamed up with Joker to kill both their enemies. Here it's to ruin them. But they would have been unaware that they were targeting the same person till the unmasking and the fight over that would have been their undoing, not Jason coming to save the day.
7:41 I'd say that they'd work together by each of them destroy Bruce and Batman's life. Hush would ruin Bruce's life (Business, relationships, while SC ruins Batman's life.. I.E the city
They should have kept the original plan but still added Jason Todd as the Arkham knight
weird not hearing “sub i’m tryna hit 100k”
Fr
Batman Arkham The Killing Joke would of been a good idea
So a prequel.
The identity of Arkham Knight should’ve been more of a mystery to begin with and something Batman should’ve solved with multiple culprits theorized. But Jason Todd makes sense since he has this connection to joker which starts affecting Batman’s psyche. But I just don’t think it was executed well especially comparing it to the Under the Red Hood movie.
Idk how they could have done it but if Jason made an appearance in Arkham origins as robin then maybe the Arkham knight would have been better, it would still be obvious but at least it would have some build up
I love jason todd and how he's done in this game though honestly
one thing you got wrong was about how paul dini killed off joker. the truth is sefton hill wanted to kill off talia and joker not dini.
dini wanted to make more games and had no plans to kill them off at that point but yeah wb really wanted that.
also dini was out the door and did not write the harley dlc either so baby joker?
The question for me is how they going to control the city because Jason have the tank without him they wouldn’t be any tanks and Batmobile wouldn’t have be in the game and with weapons either if they stuck with hush.
I just wish they would’ve kept the downtown Gotham skyline we saw in the background in Arkham City. Such a disappointing removal