Thank you very much for sharing the review! You describe clearly not only sound but also optical cartridge technology! As you mentioned, many people still misunderstand optical cartridges as "Digital" it is the wrong optical cartridge is pure "Analog". We are going to put the video on our website. and we do not need any license fee when other manufacturers develop optical cartridge equalizer we will support them free of charge. Because my dream is to make the optical cartridge as a popular cartridge.(which is a unique cartridge now) Yesyes I know we need to improve our website. So we are making a new web site now we will release it at the end of this year. Again thank you very much for sharing the review! DS Audio CEO Aki
Congratulations DS Audio. I had the oportunity to listen to the E1 first, then the 002 and latelly the grand master. That's the best thing that happend to vinyl since… I don't know… since the first vinyl record. The air, detail, silence… that's all that and more. All the records are new again.
Aki, I'm excited for your technology. I'm wondering if optical playback technology has the potential to influence the upstream cutting and lathe hardware such that a new bread of lathes can be developed that can expand the frequency range of vinyl and not just the dynamic range and channel separation?
Yet another great vid, Danny. Thanks so much for such a detailed explanation of the DS Audio optical cartridge system. Hopefully I’ll get to hear one sooner rather than later. Thanks again, man!
I recently installed DS Audio Grand Master cartridge and its equalizer. The sound is truly amazing. I have a few other good MC cartridges. They are Koetsu Tigereye Diamond, Lyra Altas Lambda SL and Otofon MC Century. Grand Master is certainly the best. Thank you for your recommendation.
Actually there were earlier iterations of the tech but they had to use actual light bulbs and it just didn't work out well enough. Sorry I can't remember where I read this but I think the original idea was in the 50's.
My E-1 arrived today. Holy crap! That is insane. Blue Note Tone Poets elevated to astounding levels. Purchased from Sound Fowndation here in the Uk. After a chat with Alex, arrived next day. A doddle to set up…. Currently listening to the new reissue of Jimmy Smiths Back at the chicken shack, and that organ has a real growl at the lower end that both the quintet Bronze and the new Denon Centenary MC’s kinda just smoothed out. But the ES-1 just opened up everything. Like….. everything!!!! Soundstage. Dynamics. E v e r y t h I n g Absolute game changer!!!
@@SonicFlare to be fair, a few month back one of my customers ( I own Analogue October Records here in the UK) turned me on to DS audio, and i parked the idea for a rainy day. Your video came at just the right time. Normally when I get an upgrade, I’ll wax lyrical to my buddy and fill up entire text messages with hyperbole about the upgrade. Today I just said “get your ass round here ASAP!” I can’t add anything new to your review other than BELIEVE THE HYPE! This isn’t a small scale change. This is monumental. My JBL -L100’s are just lapping it up! My ears are just overwhelmed and after a year of seldom having anything to smile about, I can’t stop grinning, all the while wondering what next to play. Does the performance justify the £2k? Absolutely. Without reservation. Bye bye Magnets. Bye bye coils. This goes beyond insane, and thanks for your video and reminding me to unpark that DS Audio wish list.
Hi Danny Sounds amazing, this opened my eye to a whole new world that I wasn’t aware of. I just upgraded to an MC Setup , Apheta 3, avid pulsus phone, sounds wonderful, but if the entry system outperforms this by margin I will seriously consider it Again thanks for all the time and effort
Just ordered the DS3 package will be installed on a Thales Simplicity II on a SL1210GAE looking forward to it. I've been following DS Audio for 5 years
Hey Danny! this was a very interesting video for those who are into vinyl which I am not and to be frank with you I will never be because that's not what I am looking for. When I listen music I need that experience to be practical and cheap, I don't want to be surrounded with too much stuff and vinyls in my opinion take way too much room (physical and intellectual). I am streaming most of my music and I am very satisfied with the sound quality I get from my my mini sound system. I love music more than anything else and I spend a great deal of time listening music because for me all it's all spiritual thanks for video!
@@SonicFlare Hey Danny I ve been listening to the Tinker Tailor soldier spy album from Alberto Iglesias....This Album is everything i like to hear when I have some of the good scotch🤩 highly recommended if you are in a detective mode so to speak😂 cheers!
hi Danny, as i remember reading some time ago is that the actual pressure the stylus exerts on the vinyl interface is approximately 4000 PPSI. the actual contact footprint of the diamond on the groove wall is microscopic so the 1.5gr of VTF on that small area is much higher than the average consumer can imagine. ...hifitommy
Does it sound better than my super tweaked hand wound reproduction head above factory specifications Tandberg TD20A SE 2 track 15 IPS playing 1st and 2nd generation Master Tapes? I am retired now but used to be factory service tech for Ampex, Grundig, Pioneer, Revox, Teac, Tandberg, and Uher. No Nagra and no Studer. I used to in my servicing go beyond factory specifications. But on all of those Reel to Reel machines I could only go so far. Only the Tandberg had the capability to go far beyond all the others. The only thing I heard better was Direct to Disk recordings but not by a lot. So I am definitely curious.
Hi David, thanks for tuning in! Ha, we have both similar setups then. I also have a couple of R2Rs, alas, it comes down to software as always... Willing to bet the DS / EMMlabs combo will come very, very close to sublime tapes, provided you have the right rekkids to play and the right rekkid player. As always, it's hard to make such generalized feedback loops, your mileage may vary!
Thank you for the good information in this review. If I can’t afford a DS003, do you think I will be happy with the DS-E1 and DS-E1 equalizer? I have a Lyra Delos, Transfiguration Axia, and I am using an Accuphase AD-50 phonostage (option board for my Accuphase integrated amp). I would like to buy a DS003, but even if I go for a more affordable equalizer, such as a used E1 if I can find one, or the Mr. Nixie device from Germany, I may not be able to free up enough cash from the sale of my current 2 cartridges and phonostage. So, do you feel the entry level DS cartridge and equalizer will be a big improvement over my Lyra Delos and Accuphase phonostage? If so, I may be able to move to DS Audio fairly soon. Thanks!
Hey Mark, thanks for tuning in, appreciate it! I think the DS-E1 is the “hidden” gem on the entire line up; what you really should get or consider saving up for is the new Meitner DS-EQ2 converter… it’s built around the same tech as DS-EQ1, but at around 4k much more elastic price wise… that is one helluva combo! So start with E1 and work your way up the chain…
good question, it would be a "rebuild" just like any other cartridge. That said, I think the lifetime on these - I haven't confirmed this, it's pure speculation on my part! - should be greater than comparable MC/MM cartridges, simply because the suspension system is far less complex and has 1/10th the mass without heavy coils (MC) and magnets (MM) on the other end...
Hello Danny, considering the DS audio system. Can you tell me if you have compared the DS-002 with the DS -W2 noticed the used different cantilevers and possibly stylists ? thx
Yes, I had the W-2 here... the far bigger upgrade compared to the stylus or cantilever material, is the new twin shading plate and twin LEDs further reducing noise, increasing channel separation and many other things in the new 003 and Grand Master. The Grand Master gets deep into the groove, the 003 not quite as much. Sometimes that's better, especially with less than perfect records. The E-1 is an absolute cracker of a cartridge / decoder combo... for $2750 you get an insane level of vinyl playback...
I put this in my system, in a dry climate, and it is remarkable. It eliminates a huge amount of background static. It is expensive but really worth it. Particularly if you live in a dry region. I experimented with it in and out of the system and it is terrific.
Wow, very interesting stuff, Danny! Does this system work with vintage arms/turntables as well? I have a SME3009S2 unimproved on my Thorens 124. Is the setup of turntable and such as important with optical cartridges since it works a bit different than the MC/MM cartridges? Anyway, love your videos!
Yes, of course... it works w/ any turntable system... vintage, new, etc. The setup component is the same as any MC/MM cartridge, you must absolutely set it up with care and according to standards... Thanks for watching!!! PS: my guess would be that you might actually hear even more of an improvement from a vintage setup, since they tend to be a little noisier, especially idler wheel systems, older bearing designs, etc.
@@SonicFlare Thanks Danny! And I was wondering about the last part, since as you say vintage turntables mayhave some noise issues. Absolutely going to try an optical cartridge!
Very interesting! I have a Whest Audio PS.30 RDT SE phono preamp paired with an Audio Technica ART9 XA today. Sounds like the DS Audio entry level cartridge and decoder would be a giant leap forward in sound quality? And at a lower cost…
100%! The "old" MC/MM stuff is just horribly out of date in my opinion. Now, that doesn't mean that it suddenly sounds bad. It's still great of course. It's just that once you hear what you've been missing, you can never un-hear it. I am certainly not wasting money on MC cartridges anymore.
@SonicFlare Oh my god, I must have seen this video 10-15 times. I ended up trading in my Whest Audio phono pre-amp and Audio Technica cartridge for a DS Audio DS 003. I just finished installing it and man. You are right! I need to let this impression sink in. It is just…more…of everything. But less of the bad thing, noise. Thank you so much for this review. How many hours will it need to break-in properly? Cheers from Sweden
Sounds better! The DS Audio decoders all have a slight low end bass bump that thickens up the sound on my full range setups - probably not a big deal for smaller speakers; also, the midrange clears up quite a bit more with the EMMlabs…
Wow -- super intriguing! I heard the entry level DS system at the Tampa show last year with the AMG Giro, a $15 k front end (plus that demag obelisk) yoked to entry-level Maggies and powered thru a Cronus Magnum amp ... It was my favorite of the show. Seemed to punch insanely far above its weight, so maybe a lot of that was the DS cart/decoder ... Definitely has something special.
I was lucky enough to borrow this cartridge and amp/decoder from my dealer and it was beautiful just stunning when I next upgrade it will be high on my list. It was on my tri planer arm on my gold note Bellagio Reference Turntable. I’m currently using a Benz LPS cartridge with a signature Vitus phone stage. What was the turntable and arm did you show in this video.
One more question: I found a remark on the What'sBestForum about the DS stylus attachment which is said here to fail. (Next part is a copy/paste from this remark) and I wonder what your thoughts about this is. "Are different tonearm attributes more or less important with a photo phono cart? I owned the W2 version and was very impressed with the sound. It was the apparent fragility that ended my DS Audio period. I have been a vinyl spinner for 40 years and never broken a stylus until the W2, then 3 in one year at $3,000 each. I would need some evidence of a more robust construction or a less expensive repair to go back."
Eh, forum, schmorum… I don’t hang out on any forums as there’s entirely too many posers and wannabes with expert opinions on any subject… that said, I have not had any issues with any of the DS cartridges, having the E-1, W-2, 003 and Grand Master in house. The construction of each is top notch and if you look at the quality control and how DS builds these, they are likely better built than 90% of MC cartridges costing far more. Of those, the E-1 and 003 are the best values - simply because they sound really, really good and as with most phono cartridges, the magic happens on the decoder side. The DS-EQ1 rocks and Ed is working on a more affordable EQ2 that will be launching by summer. I heard it already and it’s nearly as good as the EQ1.
Good question - it doesn't really compare, as the DS is an optical system, bypassing all the issues a magnetic / current driven system has... also, it bypasses the inherent RIAA issue that all these other systems suffer from.
Uh oh! Strain gauge is deflection based not velocity, so eliminates RIAA. SG also does not generate a voltage, it modulates an input voltage. SG has the same low moving mass advantages of optical. At least. Maybe more. Very close. The main weakness or critical aspect is the power supply. Since it is an input voltage that is being modulated it is therefore absolutely critical that it be rock solid and stable under all conditions. Same applies to optical only in this case it’s also absolutely critical that LED output be perfectly stable. As you did mention. My Soundsmith SG9 was dramatically upgraded with a professional rebuilt power supply and amp section by Rens Heijnis. As good as this is however it left me feeling there’s even more performance left on the table with an even better unit. The cartridge, stylus, etc is not the “weak link”. The design of the Grand Master with its two massive decoder/gain stage boxes connected by umbilical and with massive multi-farad power supplies strikes me as putting the resources where they’ll do the most good. Would be wonderful if you could get a SG for comparison, even though at this point I am rather confident of the outcome. Planning on a GM for my next rig. Thanks!
I have been listening to the E1 in my system for the past few days and my purchase was entirely Danny's fault. I am really happy with my purchase so far but I have a question whether it needs a good burn in since it can sound a bit fatiguing over longer sessions when on the other hand my digital side of the system is noticeably smoother. Nevertheless, the level of clarity and transparency the E1 provides are light years ahead of anything I have ever heard so I am strongly hoping the top end will smooth itself out over time.
haha! Danny strikes again... LOL! 🤣 Good to hear from you and your experience... yes, absolutely you need to take break-in into account, it is a mechanical suspension device so it needs a good 50-100 hours I would say. No doubt the sound will open up even more and smooth out... keep us posted! Cheers!
@@SonicFlare Hey Danny, thank you for coming back to me. That is really assuring since in my experience my cartridges manage to get their optimal performance after about 20-30-40 hours tops. With my Denon, Dynavector and Clearaudio after no more than 20-30 hours I started noticing the “turn” in the output but with the E1 I have clocked about the same hours upto now and can’t hear any change. Will keep on spinning those records 👌 Another aspect of your review I can say also matched my experience so far and totally surpised me because I was sure my Gold Note phono stage was quiet…but this E1 system is bonkers when it comes to bringing the noise floor down 😬 Subsequently, a somewhat negative aspect is that now I cannot listen to my digital end the same way that I used to and I might be forced to get a new DAC to try and match the turntable’s performance 😅 Of course 👍 Will let you know how I get along with it over time.
Oh it’s by far and away the quietest phono playback … a friend was over a while back and we played Bolero; he immediately noticed how “loud” we were playing it, yet how very little noise there was… unmatched by any other phono setup.
@@SonicFlare Hello I am very skeptical about the statement that "quietest phono play back" supposedly means that the quality of the analog pickup corresponds to better accuracy compared to pickup characterized by "louder play backs". Both recording processes, as well as mixing processes, as well as storage media are sources of parasitic, i.e. undesired interference that accompanies the initially recorded signal and is included when the mother matrix is cut. The classic is the hissing of the recording tape. Yes, with electronic effort, you could even reduce it digitally. This is where the puristic spirits are divided again: Is the digital scissors appropriate or not. etc,etc. But now come. 1) The cutting process. A technical process in which a material, plastic, per se is cut in a less than perfect way. And can be transferred during pressing. 2) The quality of the pressing and the pressing material. Poor quality starting material and long press runs. Source of irregularities in the scanned surface. 3) The pickup itself is very problematic.The friction that occurs as the diamond tip plows through the grooves due to the roughness of the vinyl with the never perfect, only remotely optimal compromised cut shape will emerge as a more or less pronounced noise event. In addition to the actual desired implementation:To engraved music/sound events.... with the current state of analog high-end technology, parasitic traces are unavoidable : Those events generated by the various complex processes which left traces behind, including those that are structural or process-related. This traces must nevertheless appear in a subtle, unfortunately unpleasant form as a comprehensible auditory event an accurate pickup worthy of the name. However, if these traces are never appeared in any way during the pickup…. "quietest phono play back", AND THIS GENERALLY ON ALL (clean) VINYLS, new or old, tape record or direct cut, mass or limited edition, original or modern reedition... then I'm skeptical about the verdict that the "quietest phono play back" cartridge in question has any outstanding scanning capabilities. My AEC (DECCA) LONDON REFERENCE is not a quiet sytem, it's not picky and picksup very much more of the last typical remains of analog traces, which can bring me closer to the history of the record and the music of that time than a cartridge would otherwise. Enjoying vinyl means accepting the whole package, i.e. the traces left by the manufacturing process. The story actually begins before the music is created, then the recording, microphones, stereo mono, studio or live, mix down or not, no post processing!, metal wire or tape recording or direct cut (no post processing possible! ), skills of the cutter, pressing plant, limited or mass production, re-edition etc, remix, compilation, mispress, treatment and condition ,45 or 33 rpm, along with all other unwelcome "errors" generated depending on the process, but which belong to the time of analog recording or playback, i.e. are authentically analog. All these processes leave traces in the grooves of the record that cannot be ignored. If you're more into embellished music, that's fine too...but then it's more difficult to come across authentic traces of the analog era that are meaningful. The experience potential is thus limited. This is intended as a constructive contribution to commenting on the culture of experience and enjoyment in the audiophile world.
@@jazz-agora why I listen for serious listening to first and second generation Master Tapes on my highly modified hand wound reproduction head Tandberg TD20A SE 2 track 15 IPS.
I'm playing my vinyl on an project essential III :) I was saving on the low for an Audio Note turntable in 2 year but i'm curious now. Have you auditioned Audio Note ? How does it compare ? Nice video ! The energy is always up :) i like it.
@@yannick930 that’s quite a solid investment… I am 100% convinced you will not find a quieter and therefore more resolving and airy all-in-one system like the DS-E1 cartridge/decoder combo… Have you considered a “pre-loved” turntable?
@@SonicFlare no, i heard today in a nice shop all the sub 2k turntable. My rig sounds better. But I'm considering this cart and phono preamp now. I have to find a dealer near me to ear it. For the moment I'm buying vinyl to not cry later :) by the time I upgrade I'll have nice things to ear. In the meantime I'm still enjoying myself and living threw you guys. 😀 PS: secretly the Audio Note entry level is the pre-loved. 🤣
The dynamics, the inherent quietness, the lack of any hum (I can't get over the fact how many accept hum of any kind as normal and acceptable when hum and noise kill any sort of micro level detail) the resolution and jump factor are going to be next to impossible to beat w/ a coil and magnet system.
@@SonicFlare I’m intrigued - current setup: - MoFi Studio Deck w/ 2m Blue - Restored Sansui 1000a tube amp - Bob Crites upgraded Klipsch Forte II’s Would be interesting, like you mentioned before, on the optical benefits on vintage gear….
I understand it works well out of the box, but mirrors are known to fog, cloud and fade, how does this play out with the DS Audio, there is no mention of service interval??
Well, this is most certainly an eye opener! The old way of 40x gain and then throwing it away to achieve RIAA AND still needing a SUT transformer (that doesn't hum, have roll off, be linear, have correct loading, have right gain etc - now my brain hurts) really sucks. The thinking here is similiar to a B&O, WIN or Ledermann load cell system - but without the huge price tag. It has great appeal... What compliance does this cart need the arm to suit?
Well, I would say without the price tag and without the massive complexity ... the optical cartridge is a very, very simple system actually, certainly compared to MC/MM or Ledermann's system. Less complexity = better overall system. It's been an eye opener for myself learning just how much complexity has been replaced with this optical system, not only from a mechanical perspective - no magnetic / coil forces to deal with (!) - but from an electrical system as well... the circuit is far simpler compared to MC/MM/Ledermann
The black equalizer that you showed as the W2 is not the W2. The W2 is much larger and heavier and has balanced (and RCA) outputs. There is no way you could spin around the W2 on your fingertips. I don’t know if they ever made the DS002 equalizer in black, but maybe that’s what it was. Perhaps Aki could weigh in on that.
Danny, Thank you for the informative review. This is the first time that I’ve done any research on this brand and I’m certainly intrigued. If you don’t mind, I would like to give you some constructive criticism on your video. It has nothing to do with the subject matter of your video, It is a technical filmmaking thing that really bothered me and it will be very easy for you to improve. I noticed two things: it seems like you’re using a wide-angle lens with the camera relatively close to you and you tend to rock back-and-forth while you are talking on camera. When things get close to a camera with a wide angle lens they get quite distorted in size. In your case, what happens is that when you rock forward your head becomes very large and even somewhat stretched due to the lens distortion. following that, you rock backward where your head becomes less distorted and smaller. It was actually very difficult for me to watch. I felt like I was getting sick and I had to listen to this video rather than watch it! I’m sure this was not your intention! Luckily, it is very easy to fix. The quick answer is choose a lens that is less of a wide angle lens and relocate the camera to a slightly further away position. Now if you happen to be using a phone to film this, most phones these days have a wide angle lens as well as a longer focal length lens. If by chance you’re using an iPhone, and you have the two lenses, choose the longer of the two lenses and relocate the camera slightly further away to accommodate. This is going to make for a much more pleasing video image. If you’re not using your phone and you have a mirrorless or DSLR camera, you can do the exact same thing. Choose a slightly longer focal length to avoid the wide-angle distortions and move the camera slightly further away. I hope you find this helpful! Good luck :-)
@@SonicFlare I'm pointing out the utter bullshit futility of all this crap just to overcome the shortcomings of a vinyl record. Which is easily done by playing the friggin' tape!
Ha ha, I thought I might have been a bit rude, but I've literally just come across your video about master tapes and watching that now. Peace and love!
@@SonicFlare sure but you could get a pro tape machine for a fraction of this ridiculous hi-fi gear. Sure you need the tape, but all you need is to experience the difference between that and the vinyl to understand vinyl IS the problem! BTW the master tape/dub scenario only applies to analog and recording has been digital way before CDs came out. Another point is the objection to multiple generation dubs. Before digital recording nearly every pop or gimmick recording used track bouncing. Bohemian Rhapsody, Tubular Bells, all Wendy Carlos, Tomita etc for example, ALL of the Beatles, etc. So THAT content had been copied and copied during the process of recording! And anyway ANY multitrack would have been copied down to a 2 track to make the master. So the master is ALWAYS a copy. Whats between the master tape and the cutting head? The cutting engineer and all his knobs and switches, thats what.
the early iteration of the DS optical cart had poor crosstalk and weird bass, like boosted. An artifact of not decoding the RIAA curve correctly. fast forward to today an they've made a lot of progress. The latest DS003 cart has just leapfrogged the previous version again...im tempted to jump in.
So, basically, you are saying I should skip jumping from 2M Black to MC in future. You think it beats a "decent" MC for a mortal audiophile like me? I would be happy to skip the MC adaptation phase and move to DS in future it this is really worth the shot. Thanks!
100% Paul. I am not making it up. I think the DS-E1 package will trounce over any comparably priced MC / phono combo by a long shot. Also, keep in mind that as the technology trickles down like it did with the new 003, at some point a new dual shading entry level system will become available, would be my guess...
@@SonicFlare Ofc I promise! That's the easy part for me! My wife would be happy I will finally find my rest with the upgrades. I will do it and I will stop there. I trust you with this. Actually I stopped digging a while ago, I just wanted a clear opinion I did not left earth with eyeballing the DS as an option. Again, many thanks for confirming my expensive hunch I had with DS.
In today's very first SonicFlare hardware review, we take a look at the incredible DS Audio optical cartridge system including the top of the line Grand Master cartridge along with Ed Meitner's EMMlabs DS-EQ1 optical cartridge decoder. In over 20 years of reviewing HiFi across the globe, I have never heard better vinyl playback. This is a disruptive game changer that everyone needs to hear for themselves. You will be shocked, just as I was! A true game changer! www.ds-audio-w.biz www.emmlabs.com www.musicalsurroundings.com Records used in this review: Frank Sinatra - Only The Lonely, 2LP reissue, 2018 Capitol Records remix store.acousticsounds.com/d/13... Nathan Milstein - Prokofiev, Capitol 1st press Vangelis - Blade Runner, Audio Fidelity reissue Yello - 40 Years store.acousticsounds.com/d/16... Matthew Halsall - Salute to the Sun Anne Sophie Mutter & John Williams - Across the Stars store.acousticsounds.com/d/14... Bill Henderson - Live at the Times store.acousticsounds.com/d/15... Ryuichi Sakamoto - Async-Remodels Fausto Mesollela - Canto Stefano store.acousticsounds.com/d/15... #vinyl #vinylplayback #HiFi #review #music #audio #stereo
Great video Danny. I don't expect you to know the precise answer but I appreciate your opinion on this hypothetical fantacy buying decsion. A Mid-lo-fi turntables can go for about $3-4K(from brands like VPI, Feikert, Clearaudio, Project, EAT, etc). A semi entry level HOMM or MC would run $600-$1000.. add to that a decent phono new or used @ $600-1000...this modest(though expensive by some) system would be approx. $4200-6000. Would one be better off just getting a used Mofi Studiodeck for say $1000 and get the $2700 DS Audio entry system and call it a day at $3700 and have a better system than the higherpriced turntables and "traditional" electronics?
here's my official take on your ask....... entry level MC and phono = good Lord, $1000 is considered entry level today - crazy!!! = ok, surely decent, maybe even musical. The cartridge isn't so much the issue as is the phono, as I have yet to hear a great phono for $1000... the closest you can get is the Einstein entry phono The Current, but that's $2700 EUR I think. Since most "entry" level decks have issues with bass, resolution and noise, = I am speaking in very general terms, compared to higher priced models =, the DS E1 will in my opinion be a great addition as it's natural bass output, extension and dynamics will surely help the deck sound better. That would be an interesting experiment / review worth doing I think. You'd be surprised how great the DS-E1 plays!!!
@@SonicFlare Thanks for your reply Danny.. Had a chance to speak to the regional DS audio rep and had a good conversation. Hopefully I'll be able to hear it here in San Francisco soon.
You should… it’s a bonkers over achiever. Best part is that the sound scales with the quality of the decoder, such as the @emmlabs DS-EQ1 … new vinyl experience!
"DECODER" is just marketing baloney. They just trying to make the device sound more advanced than it really is. It is actually a very very simple design. No need for the those big power supplies and massive capacitor banks. A simple battery for the LED would do but of course they need an excuse to charge thousands of dollars so they supply those oversize and over engineered "DECODERS"
Would love to entertain this ... I believe every word you say, but my entire system ( including cd player and tape deck) is a whopping thirteen hundred 😅 ha! Maybe I'll get there someday. Thanks Danny!
Thank you! hey, my first high-end anything was in fact just a cassette deck w/ headphones! We all start somewhere... 🤘🏻 Thanks for tuning in each time!!!
Yes there there exist only MC and MM systems, viewed from the physical electro magnetic perspective. But what about the mechanical construction principle? There exists a genious second solution. Realized in the iconic + unique AEC (previously DECCA) LONDON cartridge. AEC-DECCA LONDON sytems garantees that the whole movement speed and dynamic is transfered, in the physical technical limits, directly 1 to 1 in the influence field of the coils, because the needle needs less forces , means reacts earlyer and with more deflection, when the movement is not hindered by a fulcrum compared to a cantilever system. And so on the other side of the fulcrum where the shift is beared conventionally, stresses the movement under friction wich provokes a smear effect, which weakens the dynamics also , slows down the deflection too or, in addition to the negative leverage, also hinders the deflection. And so on... loss from conversion of initial energy into motion, heat from friction, also pressure to distraction and source of disturbance to initial motion, parasitic effects and so one etc....That means not that this phenomena are audible but this mixture of undesired effects are the cause of the smear effect which is evidently no good to garanty the possibly optimal transmission of the cutted information on the vinyl. And the worst at last: In any Way! The geometry of the cantilever make it mathematical seen impossible that the 1 to 1 transfer of the needle movement is transfered , the smaler movement itself is also hindred physically to move freely by the same cantilever fulcrum as explained above. This effects are also remarquable on every cantilever system also on the system you present, surely. So the congruence or parity compared to the proportional analog forces who provoked the vinyl cutting proces is disturbed, independetly of the « reading » sytem , optical or magnetical. That’s physic. You must consider, when the front end system has seriously, or even subtle, weaks , that this weakness has fatal side effects and increases in the system through cascading effects. Where a cantilever provokes intrinsic smear effects, the garanty of a clear and dynamic « one to one transfer » of the movement of the pickup needle, compared to this competence who offers the AEC LONDON sytems in good working condition, this garanty is far away. You certainly had never had the opportunity to experience a AEC ( previously DECCA) LONDON REFERENCE mounted on an optimal permanent total oildamped tonarmsytem like LTD from WELL TEMPERED LAB and on omnidirectional GERMAN PHYSIKS WORKING with bending wave radiation , one of them, a one way ultrawide range tranducer with 9 octaves from 40 to 24000 without crossover. Than I understand your enthusiasme for a very good cantilever system, but the same technical and physical weaknesses are noticeable as with other cantilever systems. Thats evident for me. My slogan: Enjoy music, the passion counts. By the way:Try Direct cut records, direct to disc records. The best - the purest : Vinyl - Cutting during the performance, without after mixing possibilities.
First of all, thanks for watching and thanks for the ever so detailed reply and discussion. Clearly, no system is perfect - for every Ying, there is a Yang. It's simple physics, even though we all want to assume that we can go above physical limitations. I have heard the Decca cartridge years ago, and while it's certainly a different approach to cartridge design, it also doesn't reduce many of the issues inherent in a magnet and coil based pickup / tracing system, short cantilever or "no" cantilever. Finally, there are also still the issues of the inherent flaws in the playback (RIAA) curve, in the dreaded 500-2000Hz range. The optical cartridge eliminates all of these issues: it uses an optical system that is a tenth of the weight of a comparable magnet/coil system, and also isn't phased by the flawed RIAA playback EQ. Since there are no magnets and coils, you eliminate a ton of grit, grain and electrical issues from the start; since the weight of the system is greatly reduced, you have instantly gained much quicker reaction times, keeping in mind that tracking forces reach 1000G, this is no small feat. So even with a standard aluminum cantilever, like the DS-E1, you get incredible speed, accuracy and liveliness, the likes of which you most definitely would never associate with a $800 cartridge (when you take out the cost of the E-1 decoder). You never have to deal with hum issues; the noise levels are dramatically reduced compared to even the best MM/MC cartridges, so what's really not to like. Optical cartridges are the future, there simply is no question. The only question is, how long with the MC "Mafia" push back against it and fund opinion pieces to the contrary. Since becoming convinced of the superiority of the optical cartridge system, I still enjoy my MC cartridge, but I would never buy another one.
I'm eargerly waiting for my 003. Today learned that my Technics SL-1000R was delayed more three weeks. I'll tell you man, this virus is a though motherfucker. Do you know or have an opinion regarding the phono/decoder Soul Note E2? I can choose it but they don't have one for listening at this moment. Ah, and - great show!
@@SonicFlare In engineering that's referred to as "application specific", every other cartridge uses the RIAA curve, you have no choice but to buy their preamp.
optical cartridge out put is purely "analog" Many people misunderstood that our cartridge is Digital.www.ds-audio-w.biz/optical-cartridge-basicprinciple/
do you know what can sound even better than the best vinyl? A WELL MASTERED COMPACT DISC!! Shame on those big record companies for their overcompression in sound dynamics in the mastering and the overuse of so called no-noise filters !! CD have been given a bad name that this audio format does not deserve !!!
Agreed on the compression... it's silly and even more silly when they apply that dynamic compression to hi-res 24bit files. What's the point how many bits you throw at it, still sounds like crap!
readers, MM and MC both use coils,of course. I forecast this stuff will disappear within 2 years.. this guys set-up is unusual, so, YMMV, big-time. there are too many proven, superb phono cartridges at fraction of the cost…..better to wait for others, who doubtless will have aomething similar soon at more affordable prices. I hope!
Allan, if anything, I would say there will be more choice, more manufacturers and more availability within 2 years, not less. DS Audio has been around for close to a decade, this isn't a fly-by-night operation. Every production run sells out. It's the real deal and in this 3rd generation vastly - and I don't mean that lightly - vastly superior to MC/MM at any price. Yes, you can get MC carts and phono pres at a fraction of the cost - relatively speaking - , but nowhere near the performance. Cheers for watching!
I talked with a Distributor today. This is very misleading. They told me it only goes up to 30kHz and it doesn’t use optical system to read the record, but a normal needle… not very impressive in my book. Then listened to it …. even less impressive. Pops and cracks …. simply terrible… I‘ll stick with high res:)
@@iimv LOL! Hey, gotta have fun, people take this high-end audio stuff entirely too serious. It's not solving any global challenges = let's have some fun.
Going back to your points above - not sure what you missed or who mislead you. Clearly you have bat ears so only 30kHz must be a big loss. 😂 A little bat told me that this isn’t the product for you. 🐣
Thank you for posting this video. Well done. But........Why did you have to tell me about this? Where am I going to get the money for this "Have to buy" item?......................................I wonder how much the White Slavers will pay for my little sister? She's been getting on my nerves lately. Hmmmmmmm.........
Thank you very much for sharing the review! You describe clearly not only sound but also optical cartridge technology! As you mentioned, many people still misunderstand optical cartridges as "Digital" it is the wrong optical cartridge is pure "Analog". We are going to put the video on our website.
and we do not need any license fee when other manufacturers develop optical cartridge equalizer we will support them free of charge. Because my dream is to make the optical cartridge as a popular cartridge.(which is a unique cartridge now)
Yesyes I know we need to improve our website. So we are making a new web site now we will release it at the end of this year.
Again thank you very much for sharing the review!
DS Audio CEO Aki
Cheers Aki!!! Nice to meet you on UA-cam... thanks for tuning in!!! 🙏
Congratulations DS Audio. I had the oportunity to listen to the E1 first, then the 002 and latelly the grand master. That's the best thing that happend to vinyl since… I don't know… since the first vinyl record. The air, detail, silence… that's all that and more. All the records are new again.
@@JardinagemOrg A+++!!!
Aki, I'm excited for your technology. I'm wondering if optical playback technology has the potential to influence the upstream cutting and lathe hardware such that a new bread of lathes can be developed that can expand the frequency range of vinyl and not just the dynamic range and channel separation?
@@JardinagemOrg Thank you very much for listening to our products!! we are happy that our products make our customers happy!
DS-W2 owner here. I agree with your observations. I wish more people become aware of these amazing cartridges. Thank you for your review!
Spread the word!
I have the DS-W2 and VERY happy with it, to say the least. Nice review. good job
Awesome!
Thank you very much for using DS-W2!
Yet another great vid, Danny. Thanks so much for such a detailed explanation of the DS Audio optical cartridge system. Hopefully I’ll get to hear one sooner rather than later. Thanks again, man!
Cheers Nick!
Thank you for this wonderful review, this is so interesting! I will be getting the 003 cartridge!
you will be impressed!
Thank you very much! We hope you will listen to DS003 soon!
I recently installed DS Audio Grand Master cartridge and its equalizer. The sound is truly amazing. I have a few other good MC cartridges. They are Koetsu Tigereye Diamond, Lyra Altas Lambda SL and Otofon MC Century. Grand Master is certainly the best. Thank you for your recommendation.
Hi, wow, that's awesome 👌 👏 👍 glad you love it, I feel the same! Thanks for tuning in!
DS Audio's optical seems like a true breakthrough! Thank you for sharing the details.
It really is!!!
Actually there were earlier iterations of the tech but they had to use actual light bulbs and it just didn't work out well enough. Sorry I can't remember where I read this but I think the original idea was in the 50's.
@@tullskull Toshiba cane up with this in the late 60s, but the photo cells and LEDs simply weren’t qualitative enough to make it work well….
@@SonicFlare Thanks for the correction🙂
Thank you very much for the comment!
Alright i'm convinced. I'm getting one in the near future. I love your coffee cup btw. Very nice!
Cheers Bruno! Coffee cup available at Meinl online shop... 😎
Cool stuff. Thanks Danny!
I was actually curious when you'd tell us about the beauty you have under your roof. Thanks for sharing this!
Cheers Paul! Thanks for tuning in...
Perfekte Präsentation !*** Du hast mich voll überzeugt , Danny !!! DANKE für die Plattentipps ! Gänsehaut. Beste Musikgrüße GEORG (bei Salzburg)
My dream is DS 003 in connection with "meitner" !***
It`s a little pitty, that XLR- connection is not possible.
It is mit dem Meitner … 😎
I’ll have die 003 bald… I’ll berichte …
Thank you Danny!
Thanks for this show. I have to listen to this in the near future.
Gerne!
I have been looking for more information on this Thank You Danny
I’m also looking into what turntable is a good pairing for the entry level DS cartridge?
I have been looking at Kuzma
You can't go wrong with Kuzma! Perfect choice
My E-1 arrived today. Holy crap! That is insane. Blue Note Tone Poets elevated to astounding levels. Purchased from Sound Fowndation here in the Uk. After a chat with Alex, arrived next day. A doddle to set up…. Currently listening to the new reissue of Jimmy Smiths Back at the chicken shack, and that organ has a real growl at the lower end that both the quintet Bronze and the new Denon Centenary MC’s kinda just smoothed out. But the ES-1 just opened up everything. Like….. everything!!!! Soundstage. Dynamics. E v e r y t h I n g
Absolute game changer!!!
YUSSSSSSS!!! Awesome!!! Once you hear "it" you'll never be able "unhear" it... So glad you are enjoying it.
@@SonicFlare to be fair, a few month back one of my customers ( I own Analogue October Records here in the UK) turned me on to DS audio, and i parked the idea for a rainy day. Your video came at just the right time.
Normally when I get an upgrade, I’ll wax lyrical to my buddy and fill up entire text messages with hyperbole about the upgrade. Today I just said “get your ass round here ASAP!” I can’t add anything new to your review other than BELIEVE THE HYPE! This isn’t a small scale change. This is monumental. My JBL -L100’s are just lapping it up! My ears are just overwhelmed and after a year of seldom having anything to smile about, I can’t stop grinning, all the while wondering what next to play. Does the performance justify the £2k? Absolutely. Without reservation. Bye bye Magnets. Bye bye coils. This goes beyond insane, and thanks for your video and reminding me to unpark that DS Audio wish list.
Hi Danny
Sounds amazing, this opened my eye to a whole new world that I wasn’t aware of. I just upgraded to an MC Setup , Apheta 3, avid pulsus phone, sounds wonderful, but if the entry system outperforms this by margin I will seriously consider it
Again thanks for all the time and effort
I would give it a try. Once you hear this, you can't "un-hear" the vast benefits of this technology.
Great video- still looking forward to your review of the ds003!
A also wait for the DS003 !***
Me 2!!! Should have that soon...
Gleichfalls, kommt bald wie man mir gesagt hat...
@@SonicFlare thank you!
Been waiting for this. Thank you, and I love Meinl as well...
Julius!!! 🤘🏻 Cheers for watching!
Thank you for another great video. I learn so much.
pop quiz today at 7! 🤣
@@SonicFlare Just helping your algorithm.
Just ordered the DS3 package will be installed on a Thales Simplicity II on a SL1210GAE looking forward to it. I've been following DS Audio for 5 years
Nice!!! You’ll dig. 💯
Picked up a 1st press of the Sinatra last month for £2.00! after cleaning it sounds fabulous
get this new remix - it's leaps better than the original...
Hopefully they'll be able to keep up with demand after this review. Super excited to here it and most likely move to optical.
Haha! Thank you! You won’t look back……..
Hey Danny! this was a very interesting video for those who are into vinyl which I am not and to be frank with you I will never be because that's not what I am looking for. When I listen music I need that experience to be practical and cheap, I don't want to be surrounded with too much stuff and vinyls in my opinion take way too much room (physical and intellectual). I am streaming most of my music and I am very satisfied with the sound quality I get from my my mini sound system. I love music more than anything else and I spend a great deal of time listening music because for me all it's all spiritual thanks for video!
nothing wrong with playing digital music! Cheers and thanks for watching! 🤘🏻😎
@@SonicFlare Hey Danny I ve been listening to the Tinker Tailor soldier spy album from Alberto Iglesias....This Album is everything i like to hear when I have some of the good scotch🤩 highly recommended if you are in a detective mode so to speak😂 cheers!
hi Danny, as i remember reading some time ago is that the actual pressure the stylus exerts on the vinyl interface is approximately 4000 PPSI. the actual contact footprint of the diamond on the groove wall is microscopic so the 1.5gr of VTF on that small area is much higher than the average consumer can imagine.
...hifitommy
Really enjoying your new channel! Ron Resneck turned me on to it. Keep it up!
nice!!! Cheers Jim! Cheers Ron!
I would love to hear that cartridge mounted on the Swedish on on a Techdas record deck . 😊
Agreed!
Danny do you setup the DS Audio cartridge same as a MM/MC cart? tracking force, anti-skate,etc..
Yep! Identical setup since the tracing of the grooves is done the same way…
Hey Danny,
you“l right, this is a disruptive Technology and will bring vinyl to the next century level
Greetings
Andreas
Agreed!
Does it sound better than my super tweaked hand wound reproduction head above factory specifications Tandberg TD20A SE 2 track 15 IPS playing 1st and 2nd generation Master Tapes? I am retired now but used to be factory service tech for Ampex, Grundig, Pioneer, Revox,
Teac, Tandberg, and Uher. No Nagra and no Studer. I used to in my servicing go beyond factory specifications. But on all of those Reel to Reel machines I could only go so far. Only the Tandberg had the capability to go far beyond all the others. The only thing I heard better was Direct to Disk recordings but not by a lot. So I am definitely curious.
Hi David, thanks for tuning in! Ha, we have both similar setups then. I also have a couple of R2Rs, alas, it comes down to software as always... Willing to bet the DS / EMMlabs combo will come very, very close to sublime tapes, provided you have the right rekkids to play and the right rekkid player. As always, it's hard to make such generalized feedback loops, your mileage may vary!
Thank you for the good information in this review.
If I can’t afford a DS003, do you think I will be happy with the DS-E1 and DS-E1 equalizer?
I have a Lyra Delos, Transfiguration Axia, and I am using an Accuphase AD-50 phonostage (option board for my Accuphase integrated amp).
I would like to buy a DS003, but even if I go for a more affordable equalizer, such as a used E1 if I can find one, or the Mr. Nixie device from Germany, I may not be able to free up enough cash from the sale of my current 2 cartridges and phonostage.
So, do you feel the entry level DS cartridge and equalizer will be a big improvement over my Lyra Delos and Accuphase phonostage? If so, I may be able to move to DS Audio fairly soon.
Thanks!
Hey Mark, thanks for tuning in, appreciate it!
I think the DS-E1 is the “hidden” gem on the entire line up; what you really should get or consider saving up for is the new Meitner DS-EQ2 converter… it’s built around the same tech as DS-EQ1, but at around 4k much more elastic price wise… that is one helluva combo!
So start with E1 and work your way up the chain…
@@SonicFlare I concur !
Hi Danny Do you have to change the whole cartridge when the stylus is worn like you do with a mc ?
good question, it would be a "rebuild" just like any other cartridge. That said, I think the lifetime on these - I haven't confirmed this, it's pure speculation on my part! - should be greater than comparable MC/MM cartridges, simply because the suspension system is far less complex and has 1/10th the mass without heavy coils (MC) and magnets (MM) on the other end...
no recommendations from @DS Audio Official about this?
Hello Danny, considering the DS audio system. Can you tell me if you have compared the DS-002 with the DS -W2 noticed the used different cantilevers and possibly stylists ?
thx
Yes, I had the W-2 here... the far bigger upgrade compared to the stylus or cantilever material, is the new twin shading plate and twin LEDs further reducing noise, increasing channel separation and many other things in the new 003 and Grand Master. The Grand Master gets deep into the groove, the 003 not quite as much. Sometimes that's better, especially with less than perfect records.
The E-1 is an absolute cracker of a cartridge / decoder combo... for $2750 you get an insane level of vinyl playback...
Thx man for the info, what did you have prior to the DS possibly Lyra ?
Optical audio is older than the LP and is a wonderful and warm sound.
Philco in the late 40s and Toshiba in the late 60s.…….
That said, I wouldn’t necessarily call it a warm sound. I’d position it far closer to neutral.
Sounds cool, we will listen to it on the upcoming High-End in Munich Danny?
Yes,I also hope so. All the best GEORG
absolutely! 45RPM and SonicFlare party in Munich!!!
It’s better you‘l hear it on your private system I think 😊
Greetings from Neuss
Andreas
Danny can you review the DS Audio anti Static vinyl ioniser, have never seen anyone talk about it.
will do!
@@SonicFlare Please !
I put this in my system, in a dry climate, and it is remarkable. It eliminates a huge amount of background static. It is expensive but really worth it. Particularly if you live in a dry region. I experimented with it in and out of the system and it is terrific.
Wow, very interesting stuff, Danny! Does this system work with vintage arms/turntables as well? I have a SME3009S2 unimproved on my Thorens 124. Is the setup of turntable and such as important with optical cartridges since it works a bit different than the MC/MM cartridges? Anyway, love your videos!
Yes, of course... it works w/ any turntable system... vintage, new, etc. The setup component is the same as any MC/MM cartridge, you must absolutely set it up with care and according to standards... Thanks for watching!!!
PS: my guess would be that you might actually hear even more of an improvement from a vintage setup, since they tend to be a little noisier, especially idler wheel systems, older bearing designs, etc.
@@SonicFlare Thanks Danny! And I was wondering about the last part, since as you say vintage turntables mayhave some noise issues. Absolutely going to try an optical cartridge!
👌🏼🤘🏼😎
Very interesting! I have a Whest Audio PS.30 RDT SE phono preamp paired with an Audio Technica ART9 XA today. Sounds like the DS Audio entry level cartridge and decoder would be a giant leap forward in sound quality? And at a lower cost…
100%! The "old" MC/MM stuff is just horribly out of date in my opinion. Now, that doesn't mean that it suddenly sounds bad. It's still great of course. It's just that once you hear what you've been missing, you can never un-hear it. I am certainly not wasting money on MC cartridges anymore.
@SonicFlare Oh my god, I must have seen this video 10-15 times. I ended up trading in my Whest Audio phono pre-amp and Audio Technica cartridge for a DS Audio DS 003. I just finished installing it and man. You are right! I need to let this impression sink in. It is just…more…of everything. But less of the bad thing, noise. Thank you so much for this review. How many hours will it need to break-in properly? Cheers from Sweden
Amazing review! Just wondered what your reason was to choose EMMlabs instead of a DS cartridge decoder.
Sounds better! The DS Audio decoders all have a slight low end bass bump that thickens up the sound on my full range setups - probably not a big deal for smaller speakers; also, the midrange clears up quite a bit more with the EMMlabs…
@@SonicFlare My speakers: WA Maxx3.
Wow -- super intriguing! I heard the entry level DS system at the Tampa show last year with the AMG Giro, a $15 k front end (plus that demag obelisk) yoked to entry-level Maggies and powered thru a Cronus Magnum amp ... It was my favorite of the show. Seemed to punch insanely far above its weight, so maybe a lot of that was the DS cart/decoder ... Definitely has something special.
Very!!!
I was lucky enough to borrow this cartridge and amp/decoder from my dealer and it was beautiful just stunning when I next upgrade it will be high on my list. It was on my tri planer arm on my gold note Bellagio Reference Turntable. I’m currently using a Benz LPS cartridge with a signature Vitus phone stage. What was the turntable and arm did you show in this video.
The first one was a Kuzma XL DC w/ Airline arm, the second was the Bergman Galder with Odin arms...
One more question: I found a remark on the What'sBestForum about the DS stylus attachment which is said here to fail. (Next part is a copy/paste from this remark) and I wonder what your thoughts about this is.
"Are different tonearm attributes more or less important with a photo phono cart?
I owned the W2 version and was very impressed with the sound. It was the apparent fragility that ended my DS Audio period. I have been a vinyl spinner for 40 years and never broken a stylus until the W2, then 3 in one year at $3,000 each. I would need some evidence of a more robust construction or a less expensive repair to go back."
Eh, forum, schmorum… I don’t hang out on any forums as there’s entirely too many posers and wannabes with expert opinions on any subject… that said, I have not had any issues with any of the DS cartridges, having the E-1, W-2, 003 and Grand Master in house. The construction of each is top notch and if you look at the quality control and how DS builds these, they are likely better built than 90% of MC cartridges costing far more. Of those, the E-1 and 003 are the best values - simply because they sound really, really good and as with most phono cartridges, the magic happens on the decoder side. The DS-EQ1 rocks and Ed is working on a more affordable EQ2 that will be launching by summer. I heard it already and it’s nearly as good as the EQ1.
So how does this compare to SoundSmith Strain Gauge. That is an another take how to transfer sound from Vinyl.
Good question - it doesn't really compare, as the DS is an optical system, bypassing all the issues a magnetic / current driven system has... also, it bypasses the inherent RIAA issue that all these other systems suffer from.
Uh oh! Strain gauge is deflection based not velocity, so eliminates RIAA. SG also does not generate a voltage, it modulates an input voltage. SG has the same low moving mass advantages of optical. At least. Maybe more. Very close. The main weakness or critical aspect is the power supply. Since it is an input voltage that is being modulated it is therefore absolutely critical that it be rock solid and stable under all conditions. Same applies to optical only in this case it’s also absolutely critical that LED output be perfectly stable. As you did mention.
My Soundsmith SG9 was dramatically upgraded with a professional rebuilt power supply and amp section by Rens Heijnis. As good as this is however it left me feeling there’s even more performance left on the table with an even better unit. The cartridge, stylus, etc is not the “weak link”.
The design of the Grand Master with its two massive decoder/gain stage boxes connected by umbilical and with massive multi-farad power supplies strikes me as putting the resources where they’ll do the most good.
Would be wonderful if you could get a SG for comparison, even though at this point I am rather confident of the outcome. Planning on a GM for my next rig.
Thanks!
Ed Meitner and Bruno Putzey's are geniuses.
I have been listening to the E1 in my system for the past few days and my purchase was entirely Danny's fault. I am really happy with my purchase so far but I have a question whether it needs a good burn in since it can sound a bit fatiguing over longer sessions when on the other hand my digital side of the system is noticeably smoother. Nevertheless, the level of clarity and transparency the E1 provides are light years ahead of anything I have ever heard so I am strongly hoping the top end will smooth itself out over time.
haha! Danny strikes again... LOL! 🤣 Good to hear from you and your experience... yes, absolutely you need to take break-in into account, it is a mechanical suspension device so it needs a good 50-100 hours I would say. No doubt the sound will open up even more and smooth out... keep us posted! Cheers!
@@SonicFlare Hey Danny, thank you for coming back to me. That is really assuring since in my experience my cartridges manage to get their optimal performance after about 20-30-40 hours tops. With my Denon, Dynavector and Clearaudio after no more than 20-30 hours I started noticing the “turn” in the output but with the E1 I have clocked about the same hours upto now and can’t hear any change. Will keep on spinning those records 👌
Another aspect of your review I can say also matched my experience so far and totally surpised me because I was sure my Gold Note phono stage was quiet…but this E1 system is bonkers when it comes to bringing the noise floor down 😬
Subsequently, a somewhat negative aspect is that now I cannot listen to my digital end the same way that I used to and I might be forced to get a new DAC to try and match the turntable’s performance 😅
Of course 👍 Will let you know how I get along with it over time.
Oh it’s by far and away the quietest phono playback … a friend was over a while back and we played Bolero; he immediately noticed how “loud” we were playing it, yet how very little noise there was… unmatched by any other phono setup.
@@SonicFlare Hello
I am very skeptical about the statement that "quietest phono play back" supposedly means that the quality of the analog pickup corresponds to better accuracy compared to pickup characterized by "louder play backs".
Both recording processes, as well as mixing processes, as well as storage media are sources of parasitic, i.e. undesired interference that accompanies the initially recorded signal and is included when the mother matrix is cut. The classic is the hissing of the recording tape. Yes, with electronic effort, you could even reduce it digitally. This is where the puristic spirits are divided again: Is the digital scissors appropriate or not. etc,etc.
But now come. 1) The cutting process. A technical process in which a material, plastic, per se is cut in a less than perfect way. And can be transferred during pressing. 2) The quality of the pressing and the pressing material. Poor quality starting material and long press runs. Source of irregularities in the scanned surface. 3) The pickup itself is very problematic.The friction that occurs as the diamond tip plows through the grooves due to the roughness of the vinyl with the never perfect, only remotely optimal compromised cut shape will emerge as a more or less pronounced noise event.
In addition to the actual desired implementation:To engraved music/sound events.... with the current state of analog high-end technology, parasitic traces are unavoidable : Those events generated by the various complex processes which left traces behind, including those that are structural or process-related. This traces must nevertheless appear in a subtle, unfortunately unpleasant form as a comprehensible auditory event an accurate pickup worthy of the name.
However, if these traces are never appeared in any way during the pickup…. "quietest phono play back", AND THIS GENERALLY ON ALL (clean) VINYLS, new or old, tape record or direct cut, mass or limited edition, original or modern reedition... then I'm skeptical about the verdict that the "quietest phono play back" cartridge in question has any outstanding scanning capabilities.
My AEC (DECCA) LONDON REFERENCE is not a quiet sytem, it's not picky and picksup very much more of the last typical remains of analog traces, which can bring me closer to the history of the record and the music of that time than a cartridge would otherwise.
Enjoying vinyl means accepting the whole package, i.e. the traces left by the manufacturing process. The story actually begins before the music is created, then the recording, microphones, stereo mono, studio or live, mix down or not, no post processing!, metal wire or tape recording or direct cut (no post processing possible! ), skills of the cutter, pressing plant, limited or mass production, re-edition etc, remix, compilation, mispress, treatment and condition ,45 or 33 rpm, along with all other unwelcome "errors" generated depending on the process, but which belong to the time of analog recording or playback, i.e. are authentically analog. All these processes leave traces in the grooves of the record that cannot be ignored.
If you're more into embellished music, that's fine too...but then it's more difficult to come across authentic traces of the analog era that are meaningful.
The experience potential is thus limited.
This is intended as a constructive contribution to commenting on the culture of experience and enjoyment in the audiophile world.
@@jazz-agora why I listen for serious listening to first and second generation Master Tapes on my highly modified hand wound reproduction head Tandberg TD20A SE 2 track 15 IPS.
I'm playing my vinyl on an project essential III :) I was saving on the low for an Audio Note turntable in 2 year but i'm curious now. Have you auditioned Audio Note ? How does it compare ?
Nice video ! The energy is always up :) i like it.
I have not. What’s your budget?
@@SonicFlare 5k-6k max for the turntable+phono preamp+cart.
@@yannick930 that’s quite a solid investment… I am 100% convinced you will not find a quieter and therefore more resolving and airy all-in-one system like the DS-E1 cartridge/decoder combo…
Have you considered a “pre-loved” turntable?
@@SonicFlare no, i heard today in a nice shop all the sub 2k turntable. My rig sounds better.
But I'm considering this cart and phono preamp now. I have to find a dealer near me to ear it.
For the moment I'm buying vinyl to not cry later :) by the time I upgrade I'll have nice things to ear.
In the meantime I'm still enjoying myself and living threw you guys. 😀
PS: secretly the Audio Note entry level is the pre-loved. 🤣
Anyone have a honest review of the E1? The price has me intrigued but curious on performance over MM/MC of similar price point…
The dynamics, the inherent quietness, the lack of any hum (I can't get over the fact how many accept hum of any kind as normal and acceptable when hum and noise kill any sort of micro level detail) the resolution and jump factor are going to be next to impossible to beat w/ a coil and magnet system.
@@SonicFlare I’m intrigued - current setup:
- MoFi Studio Deck w/ 2m Blue
- Restored Sansui 1000a tube amp
- Bob Crites upgraded Klipsch Forte II’s
Would be interesting, like you mentioned before, on the optical benefits on vintage gear….
I understand it works well out of the box, but mirrors are known to fog, cloud and fade, how does this play out with the DS Audio, there is no mention of service interval??
Outside of scrubbing the stylus and cantilever from dust, there is no service for cartridges…
Well, this is most certainly an eye opener! The old way of 40x gain and then throwing it away to achieve RIAA AND still needing a SUT transformer (that doesn't hum, have roll off, be linear, have correct loading, have right gain etc - now my brain hurts) really sucks. The thinking here is similiar to a B&O, WIN or Ledermann load cell system - but without the huge price tag. It has great appeal... What compliance does this cart need the arm to suit?
Well, I would say without the price tag and without the massive complexity ... the optical cartridge is a very, very simple system actually, certainly compared to MC/MM or Ledermann's system. Less complexity = better overall system. It's been an eye opener for myself learning just how much complexity has been replaced with this optical system, not only from a mechanical perspective - no magnetic / coil forces to deal with (!) - but from an electrical system as well... the circuit is far simpler compared to MC/MM/Ledermann
The black equalizer that you showed as the W2 is not the W2. The W2 is much larger and heavier and has balanced (and RCA) outputs. There is no way you could spin around the W2 on your fingertips. I don’t know if they ever made the DS002 equalizer in black, but maybe that’s what it was. Perhaps Aki could weigh in on that.
HA!!! Garth Leerer!!! What did you send me??? I had no idea! Thanks for the heads-up, I'll clarify that right away.
That is DS-W1 equalizer, our old model. www.ds-audio-w.biz/ds-w1/
DS-W2 equalizer is this one.www.ds-audio-w.biz/ds-w2/
Danny,
Thank you for the informative review. This is the first time that I’ve done any research on this brand and I’m certainly intrigued.
If you don’t mind, I would like to give you some constructive criticism on your video. It has nothing to do with the subject matter of your video, It is a technical filmmaking thing that really bothered me and it will be very easy for you to improve.
I noticed two things: it seems like you’re using a wide-angle lens with the camera relatively close to you and you tend to rock back-and-forth while you are talking on camera. When things get close to a camera with a wide angle lens they get quite distorted in size. In your case, what happens is that when you rock forward your head becomes very large and even somewhat stretched due to the lens distortion. following that, you rock backward where your head becomes less distorted and smaller. It was actually very difficult for me to watch. I felt like I was getting sick and I had to listen to this video rather than watch it!
I’m sure this was not your intention! Luckily, it is very easy to fix. The quick answer is choose a lens that is less of a wide angle lens and relocate the camera to a slightly further away position. Now if you happen to be using a phone to film this, most phones these days have a wide angle lens as well as a longer focal length lens. If by chance you’re using an iPhone, and you have the two lenses, choose the longer of the two lenses and relocate the camera slightly further away to accommodate. This is going to make for a much more pleasing video image. If you’re not using your phone and you have a mirrorless or DSLR camera, you can do the exact same thing. Choose a slightly longer focal length to avoid the wide-angle distortions and move the camera slightly further away.
I hope you find this helpful! Good luck :-)
Cheers Mark, appreciate the feedback!
I’ve watched Will Farrell and Chris Kayan - A Night At The Roxbury - way too many times………. 😂😝😎
Sooo. imagine a copy of the tape that was sent to the cutting lathe being played here instead of the record. What would that sound like?
Hmmmmmm not sure if I understand you correctly - are you referring to lacquers in general or? If so, lacquers sound spectacular with the DS system…
@@SonicFlare I'm pointing out the utter bullshit futility of all this crap just to overcome the shortcomings of a vinyl record. Which is easily done by playing the friggin' tape!
Sure. Alas, now you’re opening another can of worms: who’s got tapes and who’s got tape machines? Answer: very few people.
Ha ha, I thought I might have been a bit rude, but I've literally just come across your video about master tapes and watching that now. Peace and love!
@@SonicFlare sure but you could get a pro tape machine for a fraction of this ridiculous hi-fi gear. Sure you need the tape, but all you need is to experience the difference between that and the vinyl to understand vinyl IS the problem!
BTW the master tape/dub scenario only applies to analog and recording has been digital way before CDs came out.
Another point is the objection to multiple generation dubs. Before digital recording nearly every pop or gimmick recording used track bouncing. Bohemian Rhapsody, Tubular Bells, all Wendy Carlos, Tomita etc for example, ALL of the Beatles, etc. So THAT content had been copied and copied during the process of recording!
And anyway ANY multitrack would have been copied down to a 2 track to make the master. So the master is ALWAYS a copy.
Whats between the master tape and the cutting head? The cutting engineer and all his knobs and switches, thats what.
the early iteration of the DS optical cart had poor crosstalk and weird bass, like boosted. An artifact of not decoding the RIAA curve correctly. fast forward to today an they've made a lot of progress. The latest DS003 cart has just leapfrogged the previous version again...im tempted to jump in.
This new 3rd generation is simply stunning!
This is some interesting technology, its 2024 now, ive not seen any of this on the market
DS Audio has been around for 10+ years now and is currently on the 3rd generation... the technology itself dates back to the 1940 and Philco...
So, basically, you are saying I should skip jumping from 2M Black to MC in future. You think it beats a "decent" MC for a mortal audiophile like me? I would be happy to skip the MC adaptation phase and move to DS in future it this is really worth the shot. Thanks!
100% Paul. I am not making it up. I think the DS-E1 package will trounce over any comparably priced MC / phono combo by a long shot. Also, keep in mind that as the technology trickles down like it did with the new 003, at some point a new dual shading entry level system will become available, would be my guess...
@@SonicFlare that's sweet! I have a local dealer here. Will start saving some dinners then! Thanks!
Promise you’ll dig it!
@@SonicFlare Ofc I promise! That's the easy part for me! My wife would be happy I will finally find my rest with the upgrades. I will do it and I will stop there. I trust you with this. Actually I stopped digging a while ago, I just wanted a clear opinion I did not left earth with eyeballing the DS as an option. Again, many thanks for confirming my expensive hunch I had with DS.
The “ Swedish “ should have also said ‘ tone arm’ !😮
Haha. Personally, I think the Kuzma Safir is the real deal!
In today's very first SonicFlare hardware review, we take a look at the incredible DS Audio optical cartridge system including the top of the line Grand Master cartridge along with Ed Meitner's EMMlabs DS-EQ1 optical cartridge decoder.
In over 20 years of reviewing HiFi across the globe, I have never heard better vinyl playback. This is a disruptive game changer that everyone needs to hear for themselves. You will be shocked, just as I was!
A true game changer!
www.ds-audio-w.biz
www.emmlabs.com
www.musicalsurroundings.com
Records used in this review:
Frank Sinatra - Only The Lonely, 2LP reissue, 2018 Capitol Records remix
store.acousticsounds.com/d/13...
Nathan Milstein - Prokofiev, Capitol 1st press
Vangelis - Blade Runner, Audio Fidelity reissue
Yello - 40 Years
store.acousticsounds.com/d/16...
Matthew Halsall - Salute to the Sun
Anne Sophie Mutter & John Williams - Across the Stars
store.acousticsounds.com/d/14...
Bill Henderson - Live at the Times
store.acousticsounds.com/d/15...
Ryuichi Sakamoto - Async-Remodels
Fausto Mesollela - Canto Stefano
store.acousticsounds.com/d/15...
#vinyl #vinylplayback #HiFi #review #music #audio #stereo
Uh oh another espresso freak ☕️😎✌🏽
hahahaha!
Great video Danny. I don't expect you to know the precise answer but I appreciate your opinion on this hypothetical fantacy buying decsion. A Mid-lo-fi turntables can go for about $3-4K(from brands like VPI, Feikert, Clearaudio, Project, EAT, etc). A semi entry level HOMM or MC would run $600-$1000.. add to that a decent phono new or used @ $600-1000...this modest(though expensive by some) system would be approx. $4200-6000. Would one be better off just getting a used Mofi Studiodeck for say $1000 and get the $2700 DS Audio entry system and call it a day at $3700 and have a better system than the higherpriced turntables and "traditional" electronics?
here's my official take on your ask....... entry level MC and phono = good Lord, $1000 is considered entry level today - crazy!!! = ok, surely decent, maybe even musical. The cartridge isn't so much the issue as is the phono, as I have yet to hear a great phono for $1000... the closest you can get is the Einstein entry phono The Current, but that's $2700 EUR I think.
Since most "entry" level decks have issues with bass, resolution and noise, = I am speaking in very general terms, compared to higher priced models =, the DS E1 will in my opinion be a great addition as it's natural bass output, extension and dynamics will surely help the deck sound better.
That would be an interesting experiment / review worth doing I think. You'd be surprised how great the DS-E1 plays!!!
@@SonicFlare Thanks for your reply Danny.. Had a chance to speak to the regional DS audio rep and had a good conversation. Hopefully I'll be able to hear it here in San Francisco soon.
When the cost drops below $2000, you will see widespread adoption in the audiophile community
Well, you can get the DS-1 entry level cart and decoder for ~$1700 US! Total and surprise over achiever!!!
Totally shocked…. I will definitely look into it.
You should… it’s a bonkers over achiever. Best part is that the sound scales with the quality of the decoder, such as the @emmlabs DS-EQ1 … new vinyl experience!
Meinl-Mohr ;-)
EQ is the word to describe what you’re calling a “decoder”. Especially since nothing is being decoded in a DS Audio system.
Fair point, though it’s not really equalizing either.
"DECODER" is just marketing baloney. They just trying to make the device sound more advanced than it really is. It is actually a very very simple design. No need for the those big power supplies and massive capacitor banks. A simple battery for the LED would do but of course they need an excuse to charge thousands of dollars so they supply those oversize and over engineered "DECODERS"
Would love to entertain this ... I believe every word you say, but my entire system ( including cd player and tape deck) is a whopping thirteen hundred 😅 ha! Maybe I'll get there someday. Thanks Danny!
Thank you! hey, my first high-end anything was in fact just a cassette deck w/ headphones! We all start somewhere... 🤘🏻 Thanks for tuning in each time!!!
Yes there there exist only MC and MM systems, viewed from the physical electro magnetic perspective.
But what about the mechanical construction principle?
There exists a genious second solution. Realized in the iconic + unique AEC (previously DECCA) LONDON cartridge. AEC-DECCA LONDON sytems garantees that the whole movement speed and dynamic is transfered, in the physical technical limits, directly 1 to 1 in the influence field of the coils, because the needle needs less forces , means reacts earlyer and with more deflection, when the movement is not hindered by a fulcrum compared to a cantilever system.
And so on the other side of the fulcrum where the shift is beared conventionally, stresses the movement under friction wich provokes a smear effect, which weakens the dynamics also , slows down the deflection too or, in addition to the negative leverage, also hinders the deflection. And so on... loss from conversion of initial energy into motion, heat from friction, also pressure to distraction and source of disturbance to initial motion, parasitic effects and so one etc....That means not that this phenomena are audible but this mixture of undesired effects are the cause of the smear effect which is evidently no good to garanty the possibly optimal transmission of the cutted information on the vinyl.
And the worst at last: In any Way! The geometry of the cantilever make it mathematical seen impossible that the 1 to 1 transfer of the needle movement is transfered , the smaler movement itself is also hindred physically to move freely by the same cantilever fulcrum as explained above.
This effects are also remarquable on every cantilever system also on the system you present, surely. So the congruence or parity compared to the proportional analog forces who provoked the vinyl cutting proces is disturbed, independetly of the « reading » sytem , optical or magnetical.
That’s physic. You must consider, when the front end system has seriously, or even subtle, weaks , that this weakness has fatal side effects and increases in the system through cascading effects.
Where a cantilever provokes intrinsic smear effects, the garanty of a clear and dynamic « one to one transfer » of the movement of the pickup needle, compared to this competence who offers the AEC LONDON sytems in good working condition, this garanty is far away.
You certainly had never had the opportunity to experience a AEC ( previously DECCA) LONDON REFERENCE mounted on an optimal permanent total oildamped tonarmsytem like LTD from WELL TEMPERED LAB and on omnidirectional GERMAN PHYSIKS WORKING with bending wave radiation , one of them, a one way ultrawide range tranducer with 9 octaves from 40 to 24000 without crossover.
Than I understand your enthusiasme for a very good cantilever system, but the same technical and physical weaknesses are noticeable as with other cantilever systems. Thats evident for me.
My slogan: Enjoy music, the passion counts.
By the way:Try Direct cut records, direct to disc records.
The best - the purest : Vinyl - Cutting during the performance, without after mixing possibilities.
First of all, thanks for watching and thanks for the ever so detailed reply and discussion.
Clearly, no system is perfect - for every Ying, there is a Yang. It's simple physics, even though we all want to assume that we can go above physical limitations. I have heard the Decca cartridge years ago, and while it's certainly a different approach to cartridge design, it also doesn't reduce many of the issues inherent in a magnet and coil based pickup / tracing system, short cantilever or "no" cantilever. Finally, there are also still the issues of the inherent flaws in the playback (RIAA) curve, in the dreaded 500-2000Hz range.
The optical cartridge eliminates all of these issues: it uses an optical system that is a tenth of the weight of a comparable magnet/coil system, and also isn't phased by the flawed RIAA playback EQ.
Since there are no magnets and coils, you eliminate a ton of grit, grain and electrical issues from the start; since the weight of the system is greatly reduced, you have instantly gained much quicker reaction times, keeping in mind that tracking forces reach 1000G, this is no small feat.
So even with a standard aluminum cantilever, like the DS-E1, you get incredible speed, accuracy and liveliness, the likes of which you most definitely would never associate with a $800 cartridge (when you take out the cost of the E-1 decoder).
You never have to deal with hum issues; the noise levels are dramatically reduced compared to even the best MM/MC cartridges, so what's really not to like.
Optical cartridges are the future, there simply is no question. The only question is, how long with the MC "Mafia" push back against it and fund opinion pieces to the contrary.
Since becoming convinced of the superiority of the optical cartridge system, I still enjoy my MC cartridge, but I would never buy another one.
Just tells me my Crosley is a Miracle..Is this a dream?
It’s all a miracle!
I'm eargerly waiting for my 003. Today learned that my Technics SL-1000R was delayed more three weeks. I'll tell you man, this virus is a though motherfucker.
Do you know or have an opinion regarding the phono/decoder Soul Note E2? I can choose it but they don't have one for listening at this moment.
Ah, and - great show!
You’ll love it! Fantastic, last final record player combo!!!
I have only heard of the Soul Note but have no particular insight into it… enjoy!!!
Modern Class D amps are a game changer. I don't like the fact that this cartridge requires it's own amp.
Every other cartridge requires one too.
@@SonicFlare In engineering that's referred to as "application specific", every other cartridge uses the RIAA curve, you have no choice but to buy their preamp.
👌👌
Sounds like digitization with coloring.
optical cartridge out put is purely "analog"
Many people misunderstood that our cartridge is Digital.www.ds-audio-w.biz/optical-cartridge-basicprinciple/
Thanks Aki!
do you know what can sound even better than the best vinyl? A WELL MASTERED COMPACT DISC!! Shame on those big record companies for their overcompression in sound dynamics in the mastering and the overuse of so called no-noise filters !! CD have been given a bad name that this audio format does not deserve !!!
Agreed on the compression... it's silly and even more silly when they apply that dynamic compression to hi-res 24bit files. What's the point how many bits you throw at it, still sounds like crap!
readers, MM and MC both use coils,of course. I forecast this stuff will disappear within 2 years.. this guys set-up is unusual, so, YMMV, big-time. there are too many proven, superb phono cartridges at fraction of the cost…..better to wait for others, who doubtless will have aomething similar soon at more affordable prices. I hope!
Allan, if anything, I would say there will be more choice, more manufacturers and more availability within 2 years, not less. DS Audio has been around for close to a decade, this isn't a fly-by-night operation. Every production run sells out. It's the real deal and in this 3rd generation vastly - and I don't mean that lightly - vastly superior to MC/MM at any price. Yes, you can get MC carts and phono pres at a fraction of the cost - relatively speaking - , but nowhere near the performance. Cheers for watching!
I talked with a Distributor today. This is very misleading. They told me it only goes up to 30kHz and it doesn’t use optical system to read the record, but a normal needle… not very impressive in my book. Then listened to it …. even less impressive. Pops and cracks …. simply terrible… I‘ll stick with high res:)
Agreed. I tossed mine into the Black Sea.
@@SonicFlare Nice 👍 I was thinking I am going to get a sarcastic comment. But happy you came to your senses :).
@@iimv LOL! Hey, gotta have fun, people take this high-end audio stuff entirely too serious. It's not solving any global challenges = let's have some fun.
@@SonicFlare Yea, having fun is essential :)
Going back to your points above - not sure what you missed or who mislead you. Clearly you have bat ears so only 30kHz must be a big loss. 😂 A little bat told me that this isn’t the product for you. 🐣
Thank you for posting this video. Well done. But........Why did you have to tell me about this? Where am I going to get the money for this "Have to buy" item?......................................I wonder how much the White Slavers will pay for my little sister? She's been getting on my nerves lately. Hmmmmmmm.........
LOL stop buying $10 lattes twice a day and there's your dough... hahaha 😝
No worries. I need the lattes more.
Nice dumbnail.
Someone has to do it.