INSANE is not a compliment to me but I am 71 years old and I actually have values and morals. It's all in my book "The Lifestyles of the FAT & STUPID." BTW, I was lucky to be a Black Hawk fan and see Bobby Hull, and Denis Savard play. Mikita wasn't too shabby either.
Great video. Remember, Orr won the scoring championship, on more than one occasion, as a D man. Orr is the greatest player I have ever seen play this great game. All 10 players were amazing!
NO doubt about it ORR was THE GOAT for anyone at least 60 yrs or older that watched O-6 NHL hockey! Too bad today's MAMA'S BOYz cannot grasp that FACT!
Playing a position that should preclude a player from winning the scoring title, Orr won the Art Ross twice; the greatest accomplishment in team sport history
Lemieux was the one player who just seemed impossible to defend once he got into the offensive zone with a head of steam. Saw him many times seemingly carry defensemen right to the net and beat the goalie with ridiculous ease. Like a bull in a china shop.
I agree! My FAV team in the NHL was ANY team playing against Montreal! My point, I loved watching the Pens constantly beat them in the late 1980s- 1990s!
Us swedes have never really understood how huge Kenta Nilsson was. Hade no idea he had a chance of making a top 10 like this. To younger people in Sweden he's probably mostly known cause of a famous line from a commentator during the legendary Forsberg penalty of the 94 world cup finals. "Whoa, that's a Kenta Nilsson deke!" Unfortunately never really got to see him, he played before my time and the NHL clips weren't avaliable in Sweden - so never really saw him in anything other than one or two world cup highlights.
Lol! He was awesome, and obviously he had some huge years over here. Quite a few Swedes had some major impact here even in the 1980's. Crazy that he's not in the Hockey Hall Of Fame here really. Nilsson still ranks 10th all time in NHL points per game. Peter Forsberg is 9th all time for the same stat and is only 0.009 ahead of Nilsson. There isn't another Swede on that NHL all time points per game list until #60, and that's Mats Sundin. Those 3 Swedes are in fact the only 3 to average over a point per game in the NHL so far.
Lmfao x 2...he did nothing except get a point per game..big deal. Hall of fame doesnt go by your weak@ss standards or else everyone would be in...under 700 total points?? Wtf is that...clearly you have no idea what your brain can spit out
I was a Caps season ticket holder throughout the 80s and early 90s. The Penguins with Lemieux and Jagr were ridiculous. 2 guys so big, strong on their skates and skilled it felt like they could score on every shift. Gretzky was amazing; much of the time it looked like he was just sort of skating around and the next thing you know the puck is in the net either off of his stick or from a pinpoint pass. Saw Gretzky score right off of the face-off two times.
He said in his book … “he only did twice and it was in the same game!!” LUCKY YOU. I saw Crosby’s first NHL point and Jagr 599th Goal! I was the only one in the arena who knew he needed just one more and was yelling for it. Between periods I went to announcers And told them we could see #600!! They the finally said it on P/A and everyone finally understood !!
You nailed it with Gretzky. It would look like nothing was happening and all of a sudden he dishes off a little pass and someone is going in all alone. It was incredible.
@@stumarston6812 it was his edge work..Gretzky's edge work along with his iq is unmatched..could read a play before it even happened...I love Lemieux but I don't think there was any player that was as good as the great one..I mean he has more assists alone than the next players point total..that's mind boggling
@@stumarston6812 Did you ever watch the Red Army Team play from Russia? Did you watch the '72 Summit Series? What you described Gretzky doing was exactly how the Soviets played hockey. They played in groups of 5 players not 1 player the way the NHL played. Why do you think the Red Army team was embarrassing the NHL stars those 4 games held in Canada? Ever hear of a player who was the Red Army Team's Gretzky by the name of Kharmalov ??? Until Bobby Clarke was told by John Ferguson to fracture Kharmalov's ankle the Soviets were winning the series. After his injury, Canada never lost again. Gretzky had the perfect hockey IQ to quarterback all 5 when he was on the ice. When Gretzky was on the ice you were playing 5 players not just one.
Im a Gretzky fanboy, ill even admit, Lemieux was the greatest player ive seen. That season he came back midway from hodgekins, and won the scoring title i think was easily the best performance. Mario would get 3 pts and that was a slow night
@@JeromyWensley-wv1fc That was not the way Gretzky played. His success came from his linemates. He got them to play a Red Army Team style of hockey where all the players were involved freeing the open man. Gretzky and Lemieux had two completely different styles of play to their game.
Gretzky was PROTECTED by the NHL/refs bcuz he was their golden boy to $ell the game in warm climate U$A market$. It's called EXPAN$ION. Meanwhile, Bobby Hull was the MOST abused star player ever in the NHL, and WHA! He had to LITERALLY fight G00NS like John Ferguson, Bugsy Watson, and Reg Fleming among others He kicked ALL of their AZZES! #99 had GOONS protecting him as well. You could DOUBLE Bobby Hull's stats if he had a free pass like #99 did! That's why he was the GOAT! Hull was the STRONGEST, FASTEST, HARDEST shot in the NHL! #99 did the best with limited skills, and was probably the smartest player ever! (puck-sense) He also had a very ACCURATE shot too! Usually in the top corners! Like my dad said in 1972..."The USA dollar will DESTROY the NHL!" How prophetic was that???
Borque never was never a great defensive player (much like Paul Coffey in that respect) so lets not get carried away with that highlight. Great offensively though.
@@DoubleD990 on what planet Ray Bourque wasnt a great defensive player.... +527 career,5 Norris Trophy in a stretch of 8 seasons 86-94,Calder Trophy man get out of here with this non-sense.
In my mind Lemieux is the best player of all time. He missed over 500 games in his career because of back and cancer issues (among others). 1 on 1 he was virtually unstoppable. Best player, in my mind and, most fun player, ever, to watch.
Mine too. And when he and Jagr joined, that was unfair. Two big monsters with crazy skills were very nice to watch. One of my favourite duos. Did Mario ever play a whole season? 🇫🇮
@@billjohnson5023 Gretzky was protected and only played one style of hockey, no hitting, no fighting, no Defense.. there are 25 guys that would be picked before him
Mike Bossy deserves to be at least number 10 jeez. 9 straight 50 goal seasons 4th all time shot percentage. He was the most proficient goal scorer ever. .76 goals per game. unbeatable shot! 35 point two years in the playoffs in a row. Along with 2 Stanley cup game winning goals. MVP and 4 cups in a row. He was simply one of the rulers of all time. He holds records none of the above players can even touch not even close. Over 30 career hat tricks. Bossy's numbers are simply unmatched as far as goal scorers go
I agree whenever it comes to The islanders dynasty players they always seem to leave them out. Bossy could score goals with anyone on ice and anywhere on the ice before all these guys played
I agree with you about Bossy. I was a very young guy and at a Sabres pre season game when they were playing the Islanders and my friend and I got a chuckle seeing this rookie's name being Bossy. He scored, I believe anyhow, his first NHL goal in the first period, right in front of us. As a Sabre fan, I wasn't laughing much at him the next God knows how many seasons. Truly an amazing player.
I can remember being 11 and watching three of the guys on this list play for the 00-01 Penguins (Lemiuex, Jagr, and Kovalev). That team was unbelievably fun to watch.
No less than Gordie Howe - "Mr. Hockey" - said that the greatest misfortune to befall the league during his time was the premature retirement of Bobby Orr due to knee injuries. That's a fine tribute coming from him, especially.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 Yup! And that is the ONLY reason that Orr loses a lot of points to guys like Gordie Howe who played in 5 decades! Experts still agree that Orr was GOAT in the SHORT time that he played.
It was a crime for bure mario and orr to be felled by injury. We, the fans lost big time......The russian rocket was awesome super mario was incredible......bobby orr......was freaking bobby orr man....had to hang em up at 30...... That s#it hurts all real fans of the game.
Don't forget Jiri Slegr, an underrated puck mover, until December 2000 and a decent two-way defenseman by the name of Darius Kasparitis to finish the season on it.
Lemieux brought a combination of size and speed, skills, smarts, finesse and finish, with grace, determination and championship-level grit. And when put together, it was the likes of which the game has never seen before or since inside a single sweater.
@@hockeyslade You're absolutely correct. There's some striking similarities when observing both players. I leaned a little more on Mario's side because of the "determination" factor I guess. Regardless, Jean Beliveau was a true gentleman - Mtl's greatest ambassador and one of hockey's most respected personalities.
@@slauzon01 Respectfully, Super Mario dealt with chronic back issues & Hodgkin's lymphoma, including a bigger & faster game. Yes, it's challenging to compare legends from different eras, but lets be real, trying to put nostalgia & bias aside. Look at those teams Jean Beliveau was playing with. As a former Oiler Dynasty season ticket holder, I've often wondered what kinda numbers a healthy Mario Lemieux would've put up, especially, had he & Gretzky switched teams❓️ 🇨🇦
@@danieldagenais7945 Forsberg 100% all days of the week. Sakic scored goals but was not as complete, not physical as Forsberg, and more linear & predictable in his play.
Datsyuk should have been rated higher I believe.As good as Datsyuk was which I consider to be arguably the greatest stick handler... the reason I think Lemieux was rated number one was basically the whole package..How he saw the the ice,knew where everyone was ,quarter backed on the power play and made both teams play at his tempo.He could slow the game down or speed it up and I believe many opponents were slightly in awe of his abilities in doing this.Having said that he wasn't the quickest,flashiest or best stick handler so he utilized his huge size and reach to his advantage with skill at keeping the puck distant from his opponents which was amusing to watch.
Datsyuk elevated the game of hockey to a new level. Very exciting to see today's highlight reels of the up and coming players who grew up watching him. I'm thinking of McDavid mostly
YUP! Orr was as strong as an ox and ALMOST as smart! He let that WEASEL EAGLESON steal millions of $$$ from him, and other players! Bobby Hull warned him too about Eagleson! So Orr loses points there! He's also VERY boring! The personality of the bottom of a bird cage! L0L
Incredible how no NHL Defensive player has ever won the scoring title other than Bobby Orr. He was sick on his blades, could pass with his eyes closed, and play defence like no one before him. Only wish he could have played for maybe 15 years or so..Imagine the numbers accumulated...
I've only seen footage of Orr but of what I've seen/he just to me was the greatest player in any sport/ Orr didn't really need great shifty moves to beat u/he just was going around everybody on the ice by just passing it to himself/ it would toss the puck up the ice and then catch back up to it wherever it was/ if the other team had the puck it was best to stay in their own zone because if it was 10' from Orr/ in a couple of seconds it b Orr's puck/ who in the history of all those great players could come out of the offense zone and then come back in/ in seconds and find a better place to go around or through u and b standing in front of ur net ready for a point blank/ if 2 players tried to run him into the boards that meant only 3 players were left to cover him and that was a total mismatched/ I think the only way to stop him was if the opponent could have 7 players and the goalie at the same time/ Gretzky and Leimeu they never came close to that/ it be like Michel Jordan dribbling pass all the players and dunking it
Amazing - considered the best in his time. Used to watch him at the Garden -- He could be contained by clever players like Henri Richard. Jean Beliveau was so classy -- he would always give his opposition the plaudits.
I seen them all..Bobby Orr, the only D-Man to win the NHL scoring championship and he did it twice, is the greatest NHL player of all time. Gil Perrault once said you can't go around Bobby Orr 1 on 1 because Bobby skated better backwards than anyone else could skate going forward. Montreal Canadian great Serge Savard once said in the NHL there are players, stars, super stars, and then there was Bobby Orr. And Mtl Legend Jean Beliveau said he dedicated a chapter in his book to the legacy of Bobby Orr and not Maurice Richard because Bobby Orr changed hockey from the game it was to the game it is today with all of his amazing skills especially his skating. But there is very little to separate Bobby Orr from Mario, Gretzky, Bure, Hull, Datsyuk, and all the great players.
Life long Leafs fan who hates the Bruins and always have. Orr was the most dominant player of my lifetime. Its really not close for second. As a defenceman he could control a game unlike any forward ever could.
@@vincentwinkleblech3614 you missed someone truly special. I was fortunate to see almost every game Bobby Orr played, thanks to WSBK TV38. My best friend owns a sports media company and he has managed to acquire video of every available game Bobby played, including international play.
Kent Nilsson was amazing. When Great one even says u were the best skilled, it means something. Young people never saw him play. Forsberg great, too. I would put Makarov top 5.
I’m with you. The eye test tells me Peter Forsberg sits third just behind the great Bobby Orr and Mario Lemieux. Nobody terrified the other teams like the latter two. Both missed a great part of their prime years. Mario retired the first time averaging more than 2 points a game for his career and 0.86 goal a game… Like Scotty Bowman said, with Mario in the line up, you’re up 2-0. The whole game plan was to stop one guy. Could not be done. Very much the same with Bobby Orr, who himself said about Mario that no one ever dominated like him. Sooo if it’s good for my favourite all time Bobby Orr, it’s good enough for me. Forsberg was extraordinary also. He dictated the game. Ray Bourque and Lindstrom were also players that had a huge impact and controlled the play. Gretzky’s efficiency dipped after leaving one of the greatest team in history, the 80s Oilers. 6 -7 hall of famers. Gretzky is 5th in my book. 8 points in a 10-1 shellacking is dodgy in my mind many instances of running up the score with those Edmontonteams) unlike Mario who’d get 6 points in a 7-6 victory. Is Kareem Abdul Jabar a better player than Michael Jordan? Even though Abdul Jabar has tens of thousands more points? Special mention to Valéry kharlamov who gave everyone in Canada cold sweat each time he had the puck. Kn all fairness, according to my own scrupulous eye balls, he was the best player on the ice for either team in 1972. He was on another level before shameless Bobby Clark viciously attacked the best player in the world (him or Bobby Orr) from behind. Anyone of us would fetch a good ten years in prison for aggravated and premeditated assault. Russia lost its best player in a smug and blatant disregard for the rules of competition. Hockey during the Cold War had a special feel, it wasn’t just sports… The Canadian team should have been punished and Clark suspended or thrown in jail till kharlamov came back. The red army player never did. However with the Cold War still raging, having sympathy for the enemy never entered public consciousness in North America. Therefore nasty shameless Bobby Clark became an instantaneous National hero in Canada. The pride of Saskatchewan, the toothless grin was hailed and celebrated despite having committed one of the vilest and most unsportsmanlike act of brutality the sport had ever seen. Never understood the pride in “winning” that way… Who cares about style points? Cheating to win is acceptable since we won (???) where’s the glory? It has no warmth Sorry… This dark story should be a source of national shame, not one of great Canadian Pride. This incident stole from those of us who loved the game of hockey, the ultimate team sport. It robbed us, the initiated, it took away one of the greatest player ever in Valery Kharlamov, a player that when watching old footage, was skating circles around everyone. It’s obvious that he was a level or three above his contemporaries.
and if Peter Forsberg who should be 3rd isnt even on the list i will not say a word about Peter *cough cough Stastny i mean how can the 2nd most dominating player from the 80s not on that list..... same reasons as Peter Forsberg.
and if orr and hull , makita would that have made an impact ? there were other factors involved with that series. Poor reffing, changing the refs on game day just before game 8. all sorts of nonsense by the Russian side that the russians got away with a lot of dirty play too so in regards to clarke both sides were guilty. Russian red army team was basically a pro team that played all year long and our guys thrown together a few weeks before the series and once team Canada got their legs and were in better game shape they got better and better.So yes the Russians probably had better skills in the series but but Canada had the better heart. And if memory serves a canadian player took a skate blade tip to the shin and got punctured. If you're going to call it right then call it on both sides. Both sides broke the rules ...
during the lockdown, jagr and straka came to my hometown in germany to make a guest appearance, i was standing behind the goal and every time they entered the opponent's zone they flipped the puck back and forth over two defenders' sticks at a speed i've never seen before. it was like fast forward and so precise, like from another planet
That crime committed by Lemieux on Bourque is still in my memory as a kid watching that. It's almost one of those "where were you when . . . " moments.
About the 87 Canada Cup, Gretzky said once he looked up, saw Mario and gave him the puck to take the shot...no question. I remember watching that game live, was pretty happy to have both Gretzky and Mario on our side.
@@marcelleclair4452 hawerchuck is often forgotten as a big piece of that play (and not in a nice way, but still); but gretzky gave the puck to the one that's much more likely to score on a shot (lemieux), his own words... Also Lemieux was a whole different kind of player after that Canada Cup, learning from the great one (the only one capable to learn him something, since their hockey IQ was similiar).
Alex Mogilny was quoted by Fedorov as being the fastest most skilled between the Fedorov, Bure, Mogilny Russian international play line. I'm surprised he wasn't on this list.
One thing to consider when talking about Mario. The guy put up the numbers he did while playing a majority of his career at 50-75% health. His back was so bad that he couldn't tie his own skates and had to have team mates help him lift his leg over the boards so he could get on the ice. I still remember him being criticized because he didn't attend most of the practices. He was labeled as lazy until the true severity of his degenerative back condition was made public and suddenly all of his critics shut up real quick. Lord only knows the totals he would have put up had he been healthy or at least relatively so. Know question that Gretzky and Lemieux are the 2 greatest players with Orr very, very close behind. Too bad that both Lemieux and Orr had the health problems they did.
thanks for info re Mario.....top 3 are interchangble.....but also one must consider defensive skills and guess who is at the top......never forget hockey fans: Orr had top both defensive/ offensive skills!
@@danmalic6688 Must agree with you. Lemieux was a physical marvel who would have probably had set all the records Gretzky finished with if he had been healthy (in terms of lost time) and unhampered (his back problems affecting his skills/endurance). But, as you imply, Orr did what he did, for all intents and purposes, on one good knee after year no. 2 (if recollection serves, thanks to the cheap shot by P), with his good one knee declining in health year by year thus playing significantly fewer games than the other two HoFamers yet exceeded both by the metric I believe tells the more comprehensive story: +/-. or, in other words, what effect does your presence on the ice have on your team. Orr has the single season record for +/- , the highest career +/- and, obviously, the best ave. per game +/- of any player of his stature ever (it's not even close). For me, that is the most important measure of a team player and alone makes Orr the actual "Great One"
Lemieux was unquestionably lazy in his early career and that most likely contributed to his health issues. It was the Canada Cup in 87' that turned him into a complete player when he saw how Messier and others worked. In the 89-90 season, he had talent around him like never before and was on pace to smash Gretzky's amazing season points record and consecutive game scoring streak. I remember how crushed I was showing up for my first ever game, only to hear that he would be out for the rest of the season. What could've been?
Lemieux still the fastest to 70 point , 25 games !!! If he would be as healthy as many other good players he would crush all records . Had a goal per game ratio at 2,08 before his cancer , he was truly amazing !!!
You have to remember Gretzky holds the all time points per game record. To me the most important career stat. Don't get me wrong I am a huge fan of Lemiuex, but he did not play in the twilight of his career. Gretzky did. He played when he was old. Which brings the stat down. Also Lemieux was 6'5 230lbs. A giant compared to Gretzky. 180lbs tops. There was Gretzky then Lemiuex then the rest.
@@phillcollins8380 There are some truths that you are saying , How i see it is that no body could tuch Gretzky while Lemiux was an easy pray . I saw a game where Lemiux mad a goal in all situations occuring on the ice . One goal came withe heavily guarded by the NJD defence I cant say it was against NJD it might have been Boston As I recall it it was NJD And he was amazing , I cant recall the Great one doing anything like this that makes Lemiux my hero . I agree to disagree !
As I said I am a huge fan of Lemieux. Numbers don't lie. Gretzky's hockey sense was unmatched. He made everyone around him better. Watch the 87 world cup hilites in Hamilton, he was in on every goal and was point leader in the entire tournament against the very best in the world. So unselfish he very well could have had another 150 goals had he not set up other players for tap in goals.
Also, it is a myth that Gretzky wasn't allowed to be hit. He was to smart to be hit. Every star player in the league had players to fight for them. Remember Lemieux was 6'4 230 lbs one of the biggest guys in the league.
@@phillcollins8380 Bro Gretz never scored 50 or more in his last 10 seasons, when they both played in the same time from 84-97, Gretzky was 1.95 PPG, Mario 2.02. Gretzky’s PPG as a LAK is 1.70, and if he didn’t cherry picked to sign for the Oilers coming from the WHA because he had a contract with owner and he went to the draft in ‘79 the #1 had the Colorado Rockies, becoming the NJ Devils 3 years later. Gretzky was fortunate enough to start in an era were the goalies weren’t that good and to pick the team he wanted to, but all the great numbers he had he made as an Oiler, don’t get me wrong Gretzky is for sure the player with the greatest career, but that doesn’t necessarily means he’s the best hockey player skill wise, that title definitely belongs to Mario or just to quote Bobby Orr: Gretzky had the greatest career, Mario was the best.
I do believe Mario deserves the number one spot. I lovs Gretz, I mean I'm a Kings fan, but Mario just had it all wrapped into one spectacular package. I mean for someone so huge he was just sl good with the puck
Mario was more skilled than Gretzky, no question. It's not about stats. It's the way he saw the ice and set up plays. He made average players score 50 or more goals in a season. Gretzky will admit it himself that Mario was a better player. They were both great players though and I miss watching them play.
I’m with you. The eye test tells me Peter Forsberg sits third just behind the great Bobby Orr and Mario Lemieux. Nobody terrified the other teams like those two. Both missed a great part of their prime years. When Mario retired the first time he averaged more than 2 points a game. Like Scotty Bowman said, Mario in the line up, you’re up 2-0. The whole game plan was to stop one guy. Couldn’t get done. Very much the same with Bobby. Forsberg was extraordinary also. He controlled the game. Ray Bourque and Lindstrom were also players that controlled the play. Gretzky’s efficiency dipped after leaving one of the greatest team in history with the 80s Oilers. Gretzky’s say 5th in my book. 8 points in a 10-1 shellacking is dodgy in my mind many instances of running up the score with those Edmonton teams) I unlike 6 points in 7-6 victory. Is Kareem Abdul Jabar a better player than Michael Jordan? Even though Abdul Jabar has tens of thousands more points?
The fact that Kharlamov was excluted from the list shows that whoever makes this list is not really capable of objective judgements regarding non-NHL hockey. When Soviet team faced the Canadian NHL all-star teams in the 70's, Kharlamov always outplayed his NHL opponents with incredible skill. The only player of that time era who could match his skill was Bobby Orr.
***** You have a point. But this list should not be taken seriously. I mean, most of this was about how good their stickhandljng was or the moves theg could pull off. Skill is more than just pure stickhandler and fancy moves.
USSR with Kharlamov faced "Canadian NHL all-star" teams as you say only 1 time, in 1972 series. All other encounters featured various Canadian teams having nothing to do with team Canada's best. If it were only for Orr, USSR wouldn't have lost the series in 1972, you don't seam to remember Perreault's raids and Henderson's goals, far outperforming Kharlamov's stuff. But you obviously hate canadians because you are american or judging from your empty channel possibly a troll.
No, they couldn't, they both were great but the op was right. Kharlamov was without a doubt the greatest player to not play in the NHL, Orr was one of the few that could've stayed with him, but he also didn't have Mario's finesse. Nobody did! Orr was the best ever, but Mario's was still better than Kharlamov!
LOL! Gretzky was not fast. Wayne Gretzky, for one, admitted he wasn't all that fast , but his vision & his uncanny ability to force you to do what he wanted you to do was magic!
Datsyuk NEVER even had a 50 goal, 100 point season in his career.. Are u serious? Lemieux averaged the most PPG in the history of the sport... He's the most skilled player Hockeys ever had
It's good to finally see a list put together that can distinguish the greatest scorer ever (Gretzky) and the greatest natural talent ever (Lemieux). It was fun watching him go to work in a seven game series against opposing goalies like Hextall, Moog, Casey, etc. He destroyed every goalie in his path. He destroyed them all. I was never a big fan of Mark Messier but he said it best, "Nobody's played the game with the pure grace and skill that Mario possess. He's got a style all his own. "
I've heard Gretzky was so good because he had a goon squad protecting him at all times and modern players will never match him because of the new regs. (Obviously Wayne was good on his own but you know what I mean)
@@maxnovakovics2568 You also have to remember that from 80'-85', the WHL folded and the GM's brought in all of that league's skilled guys and there was a huge influx of USSR players that again were almost all the most skilled. That era was like all-star games night after night. There was very little defense aside from the highly ineffective "just try to hit em'" which ironically just produced massive numbers of PPs.
@@maxnovakovics2568 Wayne fought, not often, but he did --- Wayne was so good because of protection? HAHAHA. I saw him play live in Hartford, I was 150 feet above the ice with a bird's eye view...and an avid player (in high school at the time) he saw things from ice level that I didn't see looking down, the man was mentally 3-5 steps ahead of everyone else paired with amazing skill & and pure will. Nobody will ever match him because of longevity and filthiness...Bossy could have.
@@TheTicktockman321 You need to do some homework... 📚 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_NHL_expansion 1️⃣st of all, it was the WHA, via the late, great Bobby Hull's, Jets, with Anders Hedberg & Ulf Nilsson, the Stastny Brothers, from the Nordiques & that incoming influence from the young, dynamic, Edmonton Oilers, that changed the game forever. The NHL was still in the Dark Ages, in terms of their old fashioned, conservative, offensive style concepts. In 1️⃣9️⃣8️⃣9️⃣, the first Soviet player, Sergei Pryakhin, officially was allowed to leave for the NHL, and the first defector, Alexander Mogilny, made his way to the league. 🤜Your "like an NHL All-star game night after night", "just try to hit em" comments, show a disrespectful & convenient ignorance, that inexperience often displays.
Lemieux could have easily been on par with Gretzky's numbers if he didn't miss to many games to injuries, or if he didn't have to retire at 31 years old.... Fact: When Lemieux retired he had the highest PPG in league history, he averaged over 2 pts per game.
While I believe that overall Lemieux was better than Gretzky, I think Bobby Orr was the best ever to play the game. He was injured most of his career and only played 8 full seasons. They deliberately attacked his knees in an attempt to slow him down, something they would not have allowed in Gretzky's or Lemieux's era. As a defenseman he won 2 scoring titles, came in 2nd once and 3rd 3 times and when he retired they waved the 5 year wait for him to be allowed into the Hall of Fame and inducted him the year after he retired. If you saw the video when he was weaving through people is because the other team was on the power play and he was playing one man keep away from the team on the power play, and they couldn't catch him, and he did this often. People don't realize how good he really was because of an injury layden career.
@@Tboy439 All true, yet fanatics don't care...ignorantes. Orr's single season and career +/- stat are supreme among these 3 GOATs (as I replied above, it's not even close). For all the other mind boggling stats for all 3 great hockey players, this one metric should be enough to settle it yet "robust discussions" (which can be fun sometimes) continue. Human nature...human frailty.
True, but Gretzky had a higher ppg at the same age. They were pretty close to even, IMO. The real issue is that Gretzky had better health, but I don't see how we can really hold that against him. Lemieux was just as good, but did it for less time, due to injuries, cancer etc. To me, it's a 1a 1b situation. But I can't really agree with people who think one is WAY better than the other.
Respectfully, as a former Oiler Dynasty season ticket holder, Bobby Orr revolutionized his position, dominating from the blueline. Not only winning the scoring race, but setting the bar so high, no one's ever reached‼️ 🇨🇦
A viet bro who also knows hockey lol. :) You have an important point that I keep stressing that is overlooked but is one of the most important things to consider when comparing skills - being "relative" to the era. Did you know that when Gretzky put up all the 200+ point seasons, the average goals-per-game in the NHL in the early 80's was 8 gpg? The gpg today is 5.5. This means a 200 pt season in the early 80's would be only137.5 points today. Ovie's 65 goal season a few years ago is really impressive, as it would be 80+ goals in Gretzky's peak early 80's. Crosby's career ppg is around 1.3, highest among active players, and that would be 1.9 ppg in peak early 80's. The reason why the late 70's and early 80's really had bloated scoring was because this was the period in time the NHL had its fastest expansion, several new teams a year, meaning many mediocre players from the minors and WHA were being merged with the NHL, specially crappy dmen and goalies. Statistically, it's been shown that Lemieux's 96 season was the most impressive mathematically. Why? Because this was the dawn of the dead-puck / trap era taking full flight, and the NHL's gpg that year was about 5. However, Mario's ppg was 2.3! Some mathmetician did the math and said that if this was done in the peak early 80's with gpg 8, if Mario played a full 80 game season in the early 80's that would have amounted to a 240+ point season (100+ goals)! These are all "what-ifs". But the one solid fact that could fairly compare Gretzky and Lemieux, it'd be the 88-89 season. Mario beat Wayne 199pts to 168pts, while both healthy playing near full seasons (Mario played 76 games, 2 fewer than Wayne's 78). And they both played on mediocre teams - Pens didn't make playoffs last in division (before Jagr, Francis, Coffey, etc...), Kings barely made it kicked out of first round. And they were both young in their primes 28 and under. To me this also reflects Gretzky's true numbers if not playing on a loaded stacked dynasty Oiler team (which won another Cup without him) in a high scoring era. Unfortunately last chance for these fair comparisons, as Mario never played a full season ever again past the age of 22 due to cancer and injuries, Gretzky got older and had his own back problems in his 30's as well. Your point about Savard is well taken, but the argument there is that any player in the past if transported today would also benefit from the same training, nutrition, medicine and evolved hockey knowledge of today's game. I can easily see Savard being a Patrick Kane or Johnny Gaudrau. In this sense Bobby Orr was a physical beast, skating the way he did the length of the ice in skates over double the weight of today's, shooting on heavy wooden sticks with no flex like today's technology and deking the way he did at full speed making everyone else look like beer leaguers. Orr definitely deserves #2 on this list.
Smartest player, best passer Gretzky, size, strength and individual skill Lemieux, best shooter Bossy, best skater Orr, toughest skilled player Howe. Imo.
I'm a Blackhawks fan. 1992 Stanley Cup Finals. When Jagr scored the amazing equalizer goal (4-4) with 4:55 left in the third period of game one, a horrible feeling of doom came over the bodies and minds of Chicago fans. The Blackhawks had been up 4-1 halfway through the second period. Sure enough, Lemieux pots the GWG with 13 seconds left and the Penguins never looked back.
Growing up just across the Canadian/US border near Buffalo, I was so much in awe of Gilbert Perreault's ability to skate through an entire team. Electrifying was not a word used back then but it so suited him. Hockey like every sport has different generations and conditions. Acknowledgement to more modern players such as Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid, etc. but where a player gets drafted can often control their fate. I can't help but wonder given Perreault's background where he would be in hockey history had he ended up with the Montreal Canadians and not in a small hockey town like Buffalo. No slight intended on Buffalo but for many years Perreault carried the team. And I still follow the Sabres after all these years but for those who remember, can you imagine Perreault, Lafleur, Savard, Robinson, Lemaire, etc. together. It is something that in my view would have set records very few could match. But hey, that is why we all have our favourites. Enough said!
Perrault's issue was that his style of play was way too predictable. Rush up the ice, RARELY PASS THE PUCK, resulting in way more failed rushes than goals. Highly skilled, great skater, but not the most intelligent or selfless player. I have a feeling that his game never really changed from age 12 on. My point? If Perrault had passed the puck more, the Sabres would have been a FAR better team.
@@4orrcountry Hmm? Can't say I agree with that comment. Rene Robert came to Buffalo as an average right winger. How many goals did Perreault set up for him making him a much better player? Then on the left side he had Richard Martin. A great shot but to me he was the one dimensional player on that line. Either way the French Connection would not have been considered one of if not the best lines in hockey at that time without Perreault being a passing centre player. In my view it was a bonus that he also could do end to end rushes which undoubedly brought in the fans? In addition, when Perreault played for Canada, he clearly combined well with other star players such as Lafleur. Again, we all have our favourites and Perreault was mine.
Jagr's ability one handed was incredible. One hand on stick, handling puck, other arm on defender keeping them at bay. Then he scores. Dude was amazingly STRONG.
I can't agree with the list or it's order perfectly. Yet, Jagr was the best long range stickhandler I haver ever seen, and I'm an old guy here. Bure the most electric, and a bright flame that I wished burned longer. Nillson, the most under-rated, and as polished a performer as thegame ever saw, elevating hockey to actual art in motion, like Ted Williams' swing in Baseball. Perrault, the smoothest combination of hands and feet EVER. Take Paul Coffee's legs and Savard's stickhandling, and you have Gilbert Perrault. Gretzky, the genius of vision, who saw more than anybody before or since, and Lemiuex, unequaled in raw power of talent. Shame he played in the 'garbage era', largely, of dead puck, trap hook and hold hockey, like Bure, Sundin, Kovalev, Jagr, Kariya, and other skilled players suffocated. I can't imagine how many points Lemiuex or Jagr would have had if their opponents were barred from slashing and hugging and draping themselves all over them. This was back in the day when a mugging on ice was normal, and penalty shots were an extremely rare occasion. They'd mop up these days. But how will the list look in 10 or 20 years? Will Crosby or Kane or Johnny T find there way on? Or anybody else? Sure they will. The oldest member on this list is Orr, from the late sixties, seventies. So no Howe, Shore, Harvey, Schmidt, Conacher, Keon, Dionne, Beliveau or Richard. It's all era dependant as the game changes and moves in different ways then it used to, and positional play is modified.
I know Mike Krushelnyski and asked him who was the greatest player you've ever played with or against...he did not hesitate to say "Mario Lemiuex". Coming from a guy that played with and against the Great one, (Gretzky requested he was part of his deal to the LA Kings)and all the other awesome players.
1. Valery Kharlamov, 2. Sergei Fedorov, 3. Pavel Datsyuk, 4. Bobby Orr, 5. Wayne Gretzky. Fedorov contended for nhl scoring title one year and won top defensive forward the next, and at consecutive all-star skills, he won for fastest, hardest shot, and most accurate shot. Yet Kharlamov was the best player in the world in the decade before the nhl recognized USSR talent, but starred in 1979 when Red Army beat greatest nhl all-stars 6-0 in Madison Square Garden.
I was a Blackhawks fan first-and-foremost in my youth, since I was living in N. IL at the time, but I was also a huge Buffalo Sabres fan, especially the "French Connection" line centered by the peerless Gilbert Perreault, with Rene Robert at RW and Rick Martin at LW. Getting to see them in person when Buffalo was in town - this was at the old Chicago Stadium - was one of the highlights of my young hockey life. Just glad my father liked the sport as much as I did. I'll always remember how loud - like a cannon going off! - Martin's slap-shot sounded when it hit the plexiglass in front of our ice-level seats. I got to see/hear them in warm-ups. Also got to see Bobby Hull, Stan Mikita and all of their teammates on those great teams in the old days. Montreal and Buffalo picked one and two in that draft class that had Perreault and Guy Lafleur. Montreal ended up picking first, so Perreault - who was French Canadian - ended up playing in Buffalo, rather than in Montreal. Both players were very highly regarded and it was a coin toss who was more-coveted.
When Orr played he was the best at everything. Speed, stick handling, passing, shooting, speed, defending. He was the closest thing to a perfect hockey player. Like it's been said, put 5 Orrs on the ice and they will crush 5 of any other player.
Bobby Clark the Hall of Fame center of the Philadelphia Flyers, paid tribute to Bobby Orr, when he said, "They need a league higher than the NHL so Bobby Orr can play in it..." Despite having basically only one decent knee by that time, and being virtually crippled off the ice, Orr was so dominant at the 1976 Canada Cup Series that it was said he was the best player on the ice - and on only one leg!
Jagr is not only top 5 hockey player of all time, skill, puck handling, goals, assists, etc., but he is also a top 5 NHL player of all time, which is incredible considering he missed 3 full seasons. I watched Jagr for over 20 years now and I have never seen anyone close to his overall game, and I have other favourites like Forsberg, Lemieux. Since 1980 (I don't know how Orr, Rocket etc would do today) I rank them Lemieux, Gretzky, Jagr for best NHL players, and Lemiux, Jagr, Gretzky for overall hockey player, top three either way.
Jaromír is greatly under appreciated and underrated. (The number of numb Nutz who actually think Forsberg is better than Jágr is ridiculous) After he left the NHL the first time to play in Russia, his father spoke with a Czech publication and said that - sometime during 2000 - Jaromír was bluntly told that “America DOES NOT WANT YOU TO BE THE FACE OF THE NHL” (they didn’t specify whether he meant just the US or ‘America’ as in North America as a whole - the translated article just said “America”) “The NHL will NEVER tolerate you dominating the league like Gretzky and Lemieux and the North American media WILL NEVER give you the credit you deserve”. And whoever told Jaromír that was right. He was voted League MVP 3 or 3 times by his fellow players, but the media only awarded him one Hart Trophy. And as soon as it was announced at the end of Dec ‘99 that Jaromír was on pace to score 70-80+ goals, rack up 170-180+ points and finish 40+ points ahead of the entire rest of the league in the scoring race - the refs put away their whistles and the league allowed his record shattering season to be destroyed thanks to a couple of cheap shots courtesy of Mike Peca and Dan McGillis. Mario was right when he derisively referred to the NHL as a Garage League
He came into the league when the NHL went From 6 to 12 teams… easiest NHL to play in right behind 1980-1986 with 6-7 new teams. NHL FULL of minor leaguers. Both Gretzky and Orr profited from the drop in competition and started their careers with juggernauts full of Hall of famers… unlike Mario
@@patrice5976 False......a lot of AHL players were good enough to play in the NHL in the 60's. Before the expansion in 67-68 NHL teams had set teams for the most part and would only call up 1 or 2 players a year and let a lot of good players play out a wasted career. The East and West did not play a balanced schedule either.
I'm a Habs fan for over 60 years and I've seen a lot of great players and my favorites are Habs, Maurice Rocket ,Yvan the Roadrunner, le grand Jean (le gros Bill), Boom Boom Geoffrion, Guy le démon blond, Henri the pocket rocket, etc now Suzuki, Caufield. IMHO, I can't decide who's the best, Orr or Lemieux and they aren't Habs. But the most electrifying and exciting player ever for me, the one that could send shivers to my spine when he took the puck was le Démon Blond, Guy Lafleur. And the one I would have give tens of millions to have in my team was Mike Bossy, the #1 NHL sharp shooter of all-time.
I wa always a huge fan of Larry Robinson. Maybe he didn't offer the mad skills or pure excitement of some of the Montreal greats but he was one guy that any coach, fan, or player would have wanted on their side.
Infuriating that more people don't name Bossy...filthy. Best line ever to when asked how his shooting was so accurate "the net is always in the same place."
There is The Great One, The Magnificent One, but these two were no Magic Man. Its called a Datsyukian deke for a reason ;) Datsyuk should technically be number one on this list. His raw skills are higher than even Lemieux. Also, fuck Kent Nilson, throw Joe Sakic in there.
Gretzky is the greatest ever to play the game. No question about that. Injuries and health issues are part of the game, and thus speculations of whether number 66 could've torn up the records if he was healthy are pretty much that, speculations. However, when it comes to raw talent and pure skill, Lemieux is heads and shoulders above everyone else, without question. Gretzky even said himself that he and Lemieux are very similar, except Mario had the edge of a bigger body and wider reach.
You Who would you pick and dress for those games you must win if your own life was at play ? 99 or 66 for a penalty shot? 99 or for the Stanley cup playoffs 99 or 66 for 7th game or Stanley cup final 99 or 66 for an Olympique tournament 99 or 66 for 1 nhl season. Or 3,or 5 seasons?
@@patrice5976 Lemieux learned alot from "the great one" in 1987 canada cup(cause he was the only one competent enough to give good advice since they both had a similiar hockey IQ for the game), but after that I would chose Lemieux, in all of the 5 scenerios you wrote. He was just that good; and better than all, even "the great one" at that time. He was like a force of hockey nature personified at that time, the only thing hindering him was his body (back broken, cancer etc). 88-93 Mario is probably the best pure hockey player that lived, and that says alot, the top 3 is always lemieux, gretzky, orr, and you will rank them according to your views (4th is always Gordie Howe for me also). For goalies it's a tie between Roy and Hasek, then you got a really good batch to fill out the rest of the top 5 (in my opinion brodeur is 5 at best).
Gretzky is the greatest point producer in the history of the NHL - hands down and without question. But that's not the same thing as being the greatest all-around hockey player of all time. There is a great deal more to the game than scoring points. Bobby Orr was the greatest all-around player ever to lace 'em up. If not him, then Gordie Howe or maybe Super Mario. Gretzky loses ground due to the total lack of physicality in his game; he didn't fight and couldn't take over a game physically and with toughness the way the others could Hockey is a physical game, there's no escaping it. Gretzky was also only so-so defensively. Granted, that's not what he was paid to do - but again, that's another vital facet of the game.
Rivals would play as dirty as they could against Mario and Mario would beat them (sometimes embarrassing them) playing clean. In one of his last games (1st retirement) I remember it vividly the Pens were playing the Capitals. Dino Ciccarelli who always played dirty and especially against Lemieux was the very first player to come over to the Penguins bench after the final buzzer to shake Marios hand and ask him for his last game stick. You never see something like that. Seems like such a small thing but just shows how other players in the league somewhat revered what Mario was able to do on the ice. He was that much better than anybody else playing the game.
Very refreshing to hear Gretzky drop the golly gee's for a second and give himself some credit. Also if we're talking skill, Bure is higher. He was unbelievable every shift.
You Who would you pick and dress for those games you must win if your own life was at play ? 99 or 66 for a penalty shot? 99 or for the Stanley cup playoffs 99 or 66 for 7th game or Stanley cup final 99 or 66 for an Olympique tournament 99 or 66 for 1 nhl season. Or 3,or 5 seasons?
Kareem Abdul Jabar the legendary best scorer ever in the nba. He outscored Michael Jordan by 6000 points Yet nobody say he’s better than Michael Jordan. Gretzky himself said Mario was best They all say it. Paul coffee, Eric Lindros. Every goalie.all their contemporaries Only jingoistic Canadians would claim Gretzky is better, like the year Mario had 199 points outscored Gretzky by 50 points. They still gave Gretzky the MVP Hart trophy, that the jingoistic Canadian favouring Gretzky over the Quebec dude that will fade out of the general public conscience. Gretzky the Zeus of hockey was hit 5 times in his entire career (by accident) and protected by the league is embarrassed himself that Mario is forgotten. Ask an immigrant in Canada and they’ll know Gretzky. Love Gretzky but that constant greatest, only those who don’t watch hockey wouy say that
Prime Bure AND Fedorov was the best and fastest of the 90s in different ways; Bure was the goalscoring magnet and Fedorov turned into one of the best 2way forwards (and defense men) ever(ill take scotty bowmans word for it)
+Rosanna Rossi Not if we're talking about pure skill, which just so happens to be the basis of this video. No one in the game of hockey has ever had more skill than Lemieux.
Lemieux was better. He passed Gretzky in scoring under similar conditions but not long enough for people to remember, due to injuries and cancer. Mario's first year of passing Gretzky was 87-88 where he had 168 and Gretzky 140-something. Wayne was 26, Mario only 21. But it was not fair because Gretzky was hurt and missed something like 20 games, Mario missed something like 6. It was Gretzky's first year as a King I believe, split the season between Kings and Oilers in the big trade. Then Gretzky got 168 the next 2nd full year with Kings (coincidentally the same points as Mario the previous), but Mario then got 199 playing 2 games less than Wayne (78 vs 76). What is important about this 88/89 season to me, is it's a fair comparison of both Lemieux and Gretzky both playing at their peaks (ages 22 and 27) playing roughly the same number of games under the same conditions (two mediocre teams with Pens not making playoffs, Kings barely making it kicked out of 1st round). Also, it proved to me that no way Wayne Gretzky could get 200+ point seasons if he didn't play on the stacked dynasty Oilers team, I bet he'd never crack 170 even. His stats significantly dipped by 40+ points and he was still under 30 (Lemieux on the other hand comes back to the NHL out of retirement at 36 and lead the league in points and points-per-game the games he played). And the Oiler's dynasty peaked at a time the goals-per-game were an all-time high in history, mostly due to the big expansion and merger with the WHA in the late 70's early 80's, bringing in much lesser talent, especially goaltending. Don't get me wrong, Wayne is a great player, and without Mario would probably still be #1 in my books. He had immense skill but also really lucked out, avoiding the NHL draft on a last-place team and playing on a stacked team of hall-of-famers in a high-scoring era. Without those conditions, he would still be the best, but those 200+ seasons would be around 160, 170 or so and he would have never eclipsed 70 goals. This would still make him better than everyone else, like Yzerman, Lafontaine, etc.. at the time, just NOT better than Mario imho.
Great list. I forgot about Nilsson. I Got the Moves like Jagr! (Maroon 5) Fun to hear Ray Bourque talk about how Mario Lemieux undressed him. To Ray's defence(no pun intended) he had his back to Mario. Mario undressed him, or robbed him like a thieve.
I'm quite surprised Jari Kurri is not on this list because he's one of the biggest reasons why Gretzky succeed. Gretzky won all of his Stanley cups (4) when he played with Kurri. Kurri's exceptional skill and chemistry with Gretzky played a significant role in Gretzky's extraordinary hockey performances.
Gretzky made Dave Semenko a 20+ goal scorer... I.e. he could make ANYONE score, period. That being said, Kurri probably doesn't always receives as much credit as he should, he was a formidable hockey player.
@@temujenbarca1284 Kurri and the rest won the Stanley Cup also in 1990 (5th Stanley Cup) when Gretzky was already gone. Nothing changed even though Gretzky wasn't in the team anymore.
@@RockerFinland sure, but have you taken a look at the rest of the lineup? That team was stacked, even after Gretzky was traded. Gretzky kept making slightly above average players score like future hall-of-famers, and accumulating massive amounts of points for quite a few seasons after he left... Kurri was excellent, no doubt, but Gretzky was Gretzky... Kurri profited vastly more from playing with Gretzky than Gretzky profited from playing with Kurri. A very little amount of honest research would leave no doubt in anybody's mind. Sorry to burst your bubble.
It's hard to argue against Lemieux being the most "skilled". And Gretzky has the the greatest resume in any sport, so it's hard to argue against him being the "greatest". But Orr has to me the most impressive statistical achievement. His career +/- per game was the best in history of course...he scored a lot and the opposing teams never scored much when he was on the ice... But the amazing thing is that Orr's +/- per game was almost twice as good as the next highest player in history. And it was nearly 3 times as good as Gretzky's. Orr's career was the most amazing sports spectacle I've ever witnessed.
It's funny how they talk about Jagr like he was retired, yet the dude's still putting in work at age 43. Jagr *was* and still is one of the most dominant players to have played the game.
Nasloxieh Rorsxez Of course he's not a dominant player any more, he's fucking 43 years old. He still has the ability to put pucks on net and be a force in the offensive zone when players who aren't even half his age can't even do that.
Pyry Puustinen He is a third liner at best ON A GOOD TEAM.. yes florida is a good team but they are offensively challenged and struggle to get more than 2 goals a game. BTW, that was last year, so im specifically talking about this year. Jagr only has 5 points in 8 games. woohoo
I have the entire 96 season burned...Lemieux scoring at will,Jagr right behind him the whole season.....Lemieux could help a fire hydrant score 100 points (Gretz teammate in LA)..If u honestly think you have an argument over why Lemieux was not the most gifted player on the ice then go back to 99's retirement press conference
Yeah if I remember correctly the Bruins were on the power play Lemieux turn both Oates and Bourque inside out and beat Moog... literally went right through 3 all stars... Saw it and couldn't believe it....he was amazing
Without a doubt Mario is the greatest hockey player to ever lace up a set of skates I am grateful and thankful to have had the privilege to live in Pittsburgh and watch this man play Unbelievable.
Only at 10? Out of the 10s of thousands if not more players that have played in the league. There have been sooooo many skilled players that have come around. Number 10 is pretty damn appropriate. There's at least ten other guys that could make an argument for top 10 as well.
I was at a Flyers/Rangers game when Gretzky played for them. He was playing point on power plays. He scored two goals the same way. The puck came to him, he raised his stick.. stopped at the top of his swing, looked for the opening, seemed to say "there it is", then shot and scored! Was crazy to watch.
Hockey is sadly one of those sports where the older players fade away in fan's memories. No one's fault, it's the nature of the beast as far as the sport goes. But there have been so many talented players for 100+ years. One player on the list I want to comment on, though, is Kovalev. He's one of those players who could have been SO much more than he was. Elite talent, but the attitude never was equal. Still great, but with some heart he could have been one of the greats I think. Probably the definition of "all the tools, but no tool box."
You know I never played hockey. Yet I grew up in Northwest Territories Canada and somehow have watched enough hockey that I knew EVERY name on the NHL top 100 list and could remember moments from all of them individually. ANd one thing that just makes me proud to be Canadian and have so much respect FOR the game of hockey is how much respect the players out there have for each other. Despite it's physical nature hockey is a serious gentleman's sport
Forsberg did something amazing every game I watched him play. I could watch his highlights all day.
Some players went through a lot of suffering and still were called soft. The Canadian star forwards could eat cheese during their shifts.
He was a beast... he would just drag other players around. Super strong.
One could argue Federov could easily be on this list.
Forsberg is the complete player and probably 1 of the top players in the NHL. Unfortunately, they're talking about top talent
@@petecartaxo and boy Peter Forsberg was talented,tenacious like you said #1 all time in complete player package.
Kent "The Magic Man" Nilsson. Insane watching this guy play as I grew up.
I think that Kenta Nilsson was called 'Mr Magic'. Still disappeared that Peter 'Foppa' Forsberg ain't mentioned
INSANE is not a compliment to me but I am 71 years old and I actually have values and morals. It's all in my book "The Lifestyles of the FAT & STUPID." BTW, I was lucky to be a Black Hawk fan and see Bobby Hull, and Denis Savard play. Mikita wasn't too shabby either.
@@JorgenSjobom67 IIRC, he was called MAGIC MAN?
@@mr.blackhawk142Well, maybe over in NHL but home in Sweden he was Mister Magic
Great video. Remember, Orr won the scoring championship, on more than one occasion, as a D man. Orr is the greatest player I have ever seen play this great game. All 10 players were amazing!
NO doubt about it ORR was THE GOAT for anyone at least 60 yrs or older that watched O-6 NHL hockey! Too bad today's MAMA'S BOYz cannot grasp that FACT!
Playing a position that should preclude a player from winning the scoring title, Orr won the Art Ross twice; the greatest accomplishment in team sport history
Plus he played on virtually one leg from day 1
I could put up like 60-70 goals back then. The goalies were atrocious...half the time they just kicked at the puck.
Lemieux was the one player who just seemed impossible to defend once he got into the offensive zone with a head of steam. Saw him many times seemingly carry defensemen right to the net and beat the goalie with ridiculous ease. Like a bull in a china shop.
Top 3 was amazing for me it was 1 Orr 2 lemeux 3 gretsky 4 paul coffey
The MARIO quote, I always remember..THERE ARE 10 GUYS IN THIS LEAGUE, THAT PUT THE PUCK WHERE EVER THEY WANT...MARIO IS #1..THE OTHER 9 ARE LUCKY..
You are correct. Opposing goalies said for years that they would not want to face Mario on a breakaway because he was murder in that department.
@@GameShowMike same as what goalies said about Gretzky when he was behind the net
+\- tells me he doesn’t play defense
Scary part: Lemieux Jagr and Kovalev played on the same line at one point. 3 of the top 10.
I agree! My FAV team in the NHL was ANY team playing against Montreal! My point, I loved watching the Pens constantly beat them in the late 1980s- 1990s!
Us swedes have never really understood how huge Kenta Nilsson was. Hade no idea he had a chance of making a top 10 like this. To younger people in Sweden he's probably mostly known cause of a famous line from a commentator during the legendary Forsberg penalty of the 94 world cup finals. "Whoa, that's a Kenta Nilsson deke!"
Unfortunately never really got to see him, he played before my time and the NHL clips weren't avaliable in Sweden - so never really saw him in anything other than one or two world cup highlights.
Lol! He was awesome, and obviously he had some huge years over here. Quite a few Swedes had some major impact here even in the 1980's. Crazy that he's not in the Hockey Hall Of Fame here really. Nilsson still ranks 10th all time in NHL points per game. Peter Forsberg is 9th all time for the same stat and is only 0.009 ahead of Nilsson. There isn't another Swede on that NHL all time points per game list until #60, and that's Mats Sundin. Those 3 Swedes are in fact the only 3 to average over a point per game in the NHL so far.
@@jh2245 lmfao..coz you dont get in the hall of fame with less than 700 points...stickhandling doesnt get you in either
@@MrDeceptacon88Lmfao is right. Obviously you have little clue what you're talking about.
Lmfao x 2...he did nothing except get a point per game..big deal. Hall of fame doesnt go by your weak@ss standards or else everyone would be in...under 700 total points?? Wtf is that...clearly you have no idea what your brain can spit out
And he was a floater with no heart..like Kovalev..thats why he wont be in either...go hang out in swede land
I was a Caps season ticket holder throughout the 80s and early 90s. The Penguins with Lemieux and Jagr were ridiculous. 2 guys so big, strong on their skates and skilled it felt like they could score on every shift. Gretzky was amazing; much of the time it looked like he was just sort of skating around and the next thing you know the puck is in the net either off of his stick or from a pinpoint pass. Saw Gretzky score right off of the face-off two times.
He said in his book … “he only did twice and it was in the same game!!” LUCKY YOU. I saw Crosby’s first NHL point and Jagr 599th Goal! I was the only one in the arena who knew he needed just one more and was yelling for it. Between periods I went to announcers And told them we could see #600!! They the finally said it on P/A and everyone finally understood !!
You nailed it with Gretzky. It would look like nothing was happening and all of a sudden he dishes off a little pass and someone is going in all alone. It was incredible.
@@stumarston6812 it was his edge work..Gretzky's edge work along with his iq is unmatched..could read a play before it even happened...I love Lemieux but I don't think there was any player that was as good as the great one..I mean he has more assists alone than the next players point total..that's mind boggling
@@stumarston6812 Did you ever watch the Red Army Team play from Russia? Did you watch the '72 Summit Series?
What you described Gretzky doing was exactly how the Soviets played hockey. They played in groups of 5 players not 1 player the way the NHL played.
Why do you think the Red Army team was embarrassing the NHL stars those 4 games held in Canada?
Ever hear of a player who was the Red Army Team's Gretzky by the name of Kharmalov ???
Until Bobby Clarke was told by John Ferguson to fracture Kharmalov's ankle the Soviets were winning the series. After his injury, Canada never lost again.
Gretzky had the perfect hockey IQ to quarterback all 5 when he was on the ice. When Gretzky was on the ice you were playing 5 players not just one.
Im a Gretzky fanboy, ill even admit, Lemieux was the greatest player ive seen. That season he came back midway from hodgekins, and won the scoring title i think was easily the best performance. Mario would get 3 pts and that was a slow night
If Gretzky was as big and strong as Mario, he probably would have one or two 250-point seasons.
@@JeromyWensley-wv1fc That was not the way Gretzky played. His success came from his linemates. He got them to play a Red Army Team style of hockey where all the players were involved freeing the open man. Gretzky and Lemieux had two completely different styles of play to their game.
Gretzky was PROTECTED by the NHL/refs bcuz he was their golden boy to $ell the game in warm climate U$A market$. It's called EXPAN$ION. Meanwhile, Bobby Hull was the MOST abused star player ever in the NHL, and WHA! He had to LITERALLY fight G00NS like John Ferguson, Bugsy Watson, and Reg Fleming among others He kicked ALL of their AZZES! #99 had GOONS protecting him as well. You could DOUBLE Bobby Hull's stats if he had a free pass like #99 did! That's why he was the GOAT! Hull was the STRONGEST, FASTEST, HARDEST shot in the NHL! #99 did the best with limited skills, and was probably the smartest player ever! (puck-sense) He also had a very ACCURATE shot too! Usually in the top corners! Like my dad said in 1972..."The USA dollar will DESTROY the NHL!" How prophetic was that???
One on One or One on Two Mario was by far the Best
That move Mario pulled on Borque was masterful
a good start to a career huh ?
@@vincentwinkleblech3614 hell yeah it was!
Borque never was never a great defensive player (much like Paul Coffey in that respect) so lets not get carried away with that highlight. Great offensively though.
@@DoubleD990 on what planet Ray Bourque wasnt a great defensive player.... +527 career,5 Norris Trophy in a stretch of 8 seasons 86-94,Calder Trophy man get out of here with this non-sense.
In my mind Lemieux is the best player of all time. He missed over 500 games in his career because of back and cancer issues (among others). 1 on 1 he was virtually unstoppable.
Best player, in my mind and, most fun player, ever, to watch.
Mine too. And when he and Jagr joined, that was unfair. Two big monsters with crazy skills were very nice to watch. One of my favourite duos.
Did Mario ever play a whole season?
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@@kurkmalmala7056 yes, when he was younger (late 80s) - and also after he stopped smoking (later 90s)
I love Lemieux but Gretzky by far the best no one would of had as many records as Gretzky no matter what you wanna think
I love mario and Gretzky both my favourite players
@@billjohnson5023 Gretzky was protected and only played one style of hockey, no hitting, no fighting, no Defense.. there are 25 guys that would be picked before him
Mike Bossy deserves to be at least number 10 jeez. 9 straight 50 goal seasons 4th all time shot percentage. He was the most proficient goal scorer ever. .76 goals per game. unbeatable shot! 35 point two years in the playoffs in a row. Along with 2 Stanley cup game winning goals. MVP and 4 cups in a row. He was simply one of the rulers of all time. He holds records none of the above players can even touch not even close. Over 30 career hat tricks. Bossy's numbers are simply unmatched as far as goal scorers go
I couldn't agree more.
Ya no doubt...Bure just doesn't belong there! Jagr should be higher!
I agree whenever it comes to The islanders dynasty players they always seem to leave them out. Bossy could score goals with anyone on ice and anywhere on the ice before all these guys played
I agree with you about Bossy. I was a very young guy and at a Sabres pre season game when they were playing the Islanders and my friend and I got a chuckle seeing this rookie's name being Bossy. He scored, I believe anyhow, his first NHL goal in the first period, right in front of us. As a Sabre fan, I wasn't laughing much at him the next God knows how many seasons. Truly an amazing player.
@@ronaldmacaluso107 I don't get that either.Islander dynasty doesn't get respect deserved/earned.
I can remember being 11 and watching three of the guys on this list play for the 00-01 Penguins (Lemiuex, Jagr, and Kovalev). That team was unbelievably fun to watch.
You had to see Lemieux in person down at ice level to truly appreciate how big he was to go along with A+++ hands.
Kovalev's edgework at 7:20 is gorgeous.
Bobby Orr's knees were a Canadian national tragedy when I was a kid.
No less than Gordie Howe - "Mr. Hockey" - said that the greatest misfortune to befall the league during his time was the premature retirement of Bobby Orr due to knee injuries. That's a fine tribute coming from him, especially.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 Yup! And that is the ONLY reason that Orr loses a lot of points to guys like Gordie Howe who played in 5 decades! Experts still agree that Orr was GOAT in the SHORT time that he played.
It was a crime for bure mario and orr to be felled by injury. We, the fans lost big time......The russian rocket was awesome super mario was incredible......bobby orr......was freaking bobby orr man....had to hang em up at 30......
That s#it hurts all real fans of the game.
The 2000-2001 Penguins powerplay consisted of Lemieux, Jagr, Kovalev, and Straka. That was the scariest looking PP unit of all-time.
Don't forget Jiri Slegr, an underrated puck mover, until December 2000 and a decent two-way defenseman by the name of Darius Kasparitis to finish the season on it.
Yes. I remember being afraid of those units.
Lemieux brought a combination of size and speed, skills, smarts, finesse and finish, with grace, determination and championship-level grit. And when put together, it was the likes of which the game has never seen before or since inside a single sweater.
Your wrong bro. Look up Jean Beliveau
@@hockeyslade You're absolutely correct. There's some striking similarities when observing both players. I leaned a little more on Mario's side because of the "determination" factor I guess. Regardless, Jean Beliveau was a true gentleman - Mtl's greatest ambassador and one of hockey's most respected personalities.
@@slauzon01
Respectfully, Super Mario dealt with chronic back issues & Hodgkin's lymphoma, including a bigger & faster game. Yes, it's challenging to compare legends from different eras, but lets be real, trying to put nostalgia & bias aside. Look at those teams Jean Beliveau was playing with.
As a former Oiler Dynasty season ticket holder, I've often wondered what kinda numbers a healthy Mario Lemieux would've put up, especially, had he & Gretzky switched teams❓️
🇨🇦
Lemieux was great, but I wish he was more physical.
hehe funny because most people say he was Jean Beliveau but better@@hockeyslade
I miss Forsberg, for me he is number one, insane to not have him when it comes to most skilled player.
Forsberg was an amazing player.Would you start a Team with Sakic or Forsberg?
@@danieldagenais7945 Forsberg 100% all days of the week. Sakic scored goals but was not as complete, not physical as Forsberg, and more linear & predictable in his play.
what ...? he wasn't even best on his TEAM - Sakic was.
@@csnide6702 😂 Sakic was a goal scorer, more one-dimensional. Why don't you ask him who he thinks is number 1-10?
@@csnide6702 Haha, Sakic?! Sure he was...😅🤣😂
Datsyuk should have been rated higher I believe.As good as Datsyuk was which I consider to be arguably the greatest stick handler... the reason I think Lemieux was rated number one was basically the whole package..How he saw the the ice,knew where everyone was ,quarter backed on the power play and made both teams play at his tempo.He could slow the game down or speed it up and I believe many opponents were slightly in awe of his abilities in doing this.Having said that he wasn't the quickest,flashiest or best stick handler so he utilized his huge size and reach to his advantage with skill at keeping the puck distant from his opponents which was amusing to watch.
Lemieux had top tier hands. Not sure who you were watching but the moves he pulled of were unseen at the time. Go watch his highlights.
@@TaylorByers4444 At that time, his moves were unseen FROM A BIG MAN. They were not uncommon in smaller skilled players.
Dats should be higher. He did some moves that others couldn't and still can't
@@stevejarvis3523 Datsyuk's skill went two ways, not just offensively. He pickpocketed puck carriers better than anyone.
Datsyuk elevated the game of hockey to a new level. Very exciting to see today's highlight reels of the up and coming players who grew up watching him. I'm thinking of McDavid mostly
Just watched this video and am shocked that Peter Forsberg is not on this list. He could pass, score, defend, AND pass...Shocking???
Bobby Orr is a awesome absolutely great player and person
YUP! Orr was as strong as an ox and ALMOST as smart! He let that WEASEL EAGLESON steal millions of $$$ from him, and other players! Bobby Hull warned him too about Eagleson! So Orr loses points there! He's also VERY boring! The personality of the bottom of a bird cage! L0L
Incredible how no NHL Defensive player has ever won the scoring title other than Bobby Orr.
He was sick on his blades, could pass with his eyes closed, and play defence like no one before him.
Only wish he could have played for maybe 15 years or so..Imagine the numbers accumulated...
I've only seen footage of Orr but of what I've seen/he just to me was the greatest player in any sport/ Orr didn't really need great shifty moves to beat u/he just was going around everybody on the ice by just passing it to himself/ it would toss the puck up the ice and then catch back up to it wherever it was/ if the other team had the puck it was best to stay in their own zone because if it was 10' from Orr/ in a couple of seconds it b Orr's puck/ who in the history of all those great players could come out of the offense zone and then come back in/ in seconds and find a better place to go around or through u and b standing in front of ur net ready for a point blank/ if 2 players tried to run him into the boards that meant only 3 players were left to cover him and that was a total mismatched/ I think the only way to stop him was if the opponent could have 7 players and the goalie at the same time/ Gretzky and Leimeu they never came close to that/ it be like Michel Jordan dribbling pass all the players and dunking it
have you read his book..? he is also pretty full of himself.
Amazing - considered the best in his time. Used to watch him at the
Garden -- He could be contained by clever players like Henri Richard.
Jean Beliveau was so classy -- he would always give his opposition the plaudits.
@@csnide6702 You couldn't find a more humble person. What are you smoking?
@@tomheim9516 did you read his book...?
I seen them all..Bobby Orr, the only D-Man to win the NHL scoring championship and he did it twice, is the greatest NHL player of all time. Gil Perrault once said you can't go around Bobby Orr 1 on 1 because Bobby skated better backwards than anyone else could skate going forward. Montreal Canadian great Serge Savard once said in the NHL there are players, stars, super stars, and then there was Bobby Orr. And Mtl Legend Jean Beliveau said he dedicated a chapter in his book to the legacy of Bobby Orr and not Maurice Richard because Bobby Orr changed hockey from the game it was to the game it is today with all of his amazing skills especially his skating. But there is very little to separate Bobby Orr from Mario, Gretzky, Bure, Hull, Datsyuk, and all the great players.
I agree!
Life long Leafs fan who hates the Bruins and always have. Orr was the most dominant player of my lifetime. Its really not close for second. As a defenceman he could control a game unlike any forward ever could.
do not forget ORR had 8 straight Norris Trophies and a PLUS 124 in one season !!!!! I am too young to have seen him but i wished I had.
@@vincentwinkleblech3614 you missed someone truly special. I was fortunate to see almost every game Bobby Orr played, thanks to WSBK TV38. My best friend owns a sports media company and he has managed to acquire video of every available game Bobby played, including international play.
@@johncirillo9544 The one time I saw him play live on TV was in A HAWKS jersey. So that does not count.
Kent Nilsson was amazing. When Great one even says u were the best skilled, it means something. Young people never saw him play. Forsberg great, too. I would put Makarov top 5.
I’m with you. The eye test tells me Peter Forsberg sits third just behind the great Bobby Orr and Mario Lemieux. Nobody terrified the other teams like the latter two. Both missed a great part of their prime years. Mario retired the first time averaging more than 2 points a game for his career and 0.86 goal a game… Like Scotty Bowman said, with Mario in the line up, you’re up 2-0. The whole game plan was to stop one guy. Could not be done. Very much the same with Bobby Orr, who himself said about Mario that no one ever dominated like him. Sooo if it’s good for my favourite all time Bobby Orr, it’s good enough for me.
Forsberg was extraordinary also. He dictated the game. Ray Bourque and Lindstrom were also players that had a huge impact and controlled the play. Gretzky’s efficiency dipped after leaving one of the greatest team in history, the 80s Oilers. 6 -7 hall of famers. Gretzky is 5th in my book. 8 points in a 10-1 shellacking is dodgy in my mind many instances of running up the score with those Edmontonteams) unlike Mario who’d get 6 points in a 7-6 victory.
Is Kareem Abdul Jabar a better player than Michael Jordan? Even though Abdul Jabar has tens of thousands more points?
Special mention to Valéry kharlamov who gave everyone in Canada cold sweat each time he had the puck. Kn all fairness, according to my own scrupulous eye balls, he was the best player on the ice for either team in 1972. He was on another level before shameless Bobby Clark viciously attacked the best player in the world (him or Bobby Orr) from behind. Anyone of us would fetch a good ten years in prison for aggravated and premeditated assault. Russia lost its best player in a smug and blatant disregard for the rules of competition.
Hockey during the Cold War had a special feel, it wasn’t just sports… The Canadian team should have been punished and Clark suspended or thrown in jail till kharlamov came back. The red army player never did. However with the Cold War still raging, having sympathy for the enemy never entered public consciousness in North America. Therefore nasty shameless Bobby Clark became an instantaneous National hero in Canada. The pride of Saskatchewan, the toothless grin was hailed and celebrated despite having committed one of the vilest and most unsportsmanlike act of brutality the sport had ever seen. Never understood the pride in “winning” that way… Who cares about style points? Cheating to win is acceptable since we won (???) where’s the glory? It has no warmth Sorry… This dark story should be a source of national shame, not one of great Canadian Pride. This incident stole from those of us who loved the game of hockey, the ultimate team sport. It robbed us, the initiated, it took away one of the greatest player ever in Valery Kharlamov, a player that when watching old footage, was skating circles around everyone. It’s obvious that he was a level or three above his contemporaries.
Clarke is from Manitoba
Well written and so true!
Sorry my english isnt so good😂😂❤
and if Peter Forsberg who should be 3rd isnt even on the list i will not say a word about Peter *cough cough Stastny i mean how can the 2nd most dominating player from the 80s not on that list..... same reasons as Peter Forsberg.
and if orr and hull , makita would that have made an impact ? there were other factors involved with that series. Poor reffing, changing the refs on game day just before game 8. all sorts of nonsense by the Russian side that the russians got away with a lot of dirty play too so in regards to clarke both sides were guilty. Russian red army team was basically a pro team that played all year long and our guys thrown together a few weeks before the series and once team Canada got their legs and were in better game shape they got better and better.So yes the Russians probably had better skills in the series but but Canada had the better heart. And if memory serves a canadian player took a skate blade tip to the shin and got punctured. If you're going to call it right then call it on both sides. Both sides broke the rules ...
Its about time they got it right.
66 forever!!!!
# Penguins fan
whether he is or not, he's right. no one had the raw talent of mario lemieux.
@@ManBoss1625 Coming from a Flyers fan, no one was more skilled than Mario Lemieux
A phrase that is used all too often that ACTUALLY applies to Lemieux: he had it ALL.
6"4...n never bodied..Gretzky was a puke...n DOMINATED
during the lockdown, jagr and straka came to my hometown in germany to make a guest appearance, i was standing behind the goal and every time they entered the opponent's zone they flipped the puck back and forth over two defenders' sticks at a speed i've never seen before. it was like fast forward and so precise, like from another planet
That crime committed by Lemieux on Bourque is still in my memory as a kid watching that. It's almost one of those "where were you when . . . " moments.
Loved the '87 Canada Cup, with Wayne and Mario together.
About the 87 Canada Cup, Gretzky said once he looked up, saw Mario and gave him the puck to take the shot...no question. I remember watching that game live, was pretty happy to have both Gretzky and Mario on our side.
@@marcelleclair4452 hawerchuck is often forgotten as a big piece of that play (and not in a nice way, but still); but gretzky gave the puck to the one that's much more likely to score on a shot (lemieux), his own words... Also Lemieux was a whole different kind of player after that Canada Cup, learning from the great one (the only one capable to learn him something, since their hockey IQ was similiar).
yes that was like hockey porn !
somebody finally told the truth. I have seen them all. lemieux WOW!!!!.
love that faceoff win and assist by mario @ 13.35. such a boss.
I think Datsyuk should be way higher, not only for his skill level, but also because he did it for such a long time.
Gets 5 points off for being Russian..
@@seniormaleits exactly like that unfortunately
I'd rate Datsyuk and Bure MUCH higher and would have most certainly included Federov. So that makes 11..................
None of the three are top ten all time 😂
@@iBMcFly I agree. Highly skilled players but not top 10 of all time.
Alex Mogilny was quoted by Fedorov as being the fastest most skilled between the Fedorov, Bure, Mogilny Russian international play line. I'm surprised he wasn't on this list.
no Fedorov > dats, Fedorov can play ALL positions except goalie.
I'm not arrogant enough to act as if I know exactly how this should list should go, so this is just my opinion: Datsyuk belongs in the top 5.
opinion noted. my opinion is that you're wrong.
Fuck you
haha humility only gets you so far on youtube
@@doaftheloaf You don't know hockey.
One thing to consider when talking about Mario. The guy put up the numbers he did while playing a majority of his career at 50-75% health. His back was so bad that he couldn't tie his own skates and had to have team mates help him lift his leg over the boards so he could get on the ice. I still remember him being criticized because he didn't attend most of the practices. He was labeled as lazy until the true severity of his degenerative back condition was made public and suddenly all of his critics shut up real quick. Lord only knows the totals he would have put up had he been healthy or at least relatively so. Know question that Gretzky and Lemieux are the 2 greatest players with Orr very, very close behind. Too bad that both Lemieux and Orr had the health problems they did.
thanks for info re Mario.....top 3 are interchangble.....but also one must consider defensive skills and guess who is at the top......never forget hockey fans: Orr had top both defensive/ offensive skills!
@@danmalic6688 Must agree with you. Lemieux was a physical marvel who would have probably had set all the records Gretzky finished with if he had been healthy (in terms of lost time) and unhampered (his back problems affecting his skills/endurance). But, as you imply, Orr did what he did, for all intents and purposes, on one good knee after year no. 2 (if recollection serves, thanks to the cheap shot by P), with his good one knee declining in health year by year thus playing significantly fewer games than the other two HoFamers yet exceeded both by the metric I believe tells the more comprehensive story: +/-. or, in other words, what effect does your presence on the ice have on your team. Orr has the single season record for +/- , the highest career +/- and, obviously, the best ave. per game +/- of any player of his stature ever (it's not even close). For me, that is the most important measure of a team player and alone makes Orr the actual "Great One"
Lemieux was unquestionably lazy in his early career and that most likely contributed to his health issues. It was the Canada Cup in 87' that turned him into a complete player when he saw how Messier and others worked. In the 89-90 season, he had talent around him like never before and was on pace to smash Gretzky's amazing season points record and consecutive game scoring streak. I remember how crushed I was showing up for my first ever game, only to hear that he would be out for the rest of the season. What could've been?
+/-
@@adamsachs9826 one also must consider the effects of whole body radiation & chemotherapy.
Lemieux still the fastest to 70 point , 25 games !!! If he would be as healthy as many other good players he would crush all records . Had a goal per game ratio at 2,08 before his cancer , he was truly amazing !!!
You have to remember Gretzky holds the all time points per game record. To me the most important career stat. Don't get me wrong I am a huge fan of Lemiuex, but he did not play in the twilight of his career. Gretzky did. He played when he was old. Which brings the stat down. Also Lemieux was 6'5 230lbs. A giant compared to Gretzky. 180lbs tops. There was Gretzky then Lemiuex then the rest.
@@phillcollins8380 There are some truths that you are saying , How i see it is that no body could tuch Gretzky while Lemiux was an easy pray . I saw a game where Lemiux mad a goal in all situations occuring on the ice . One goal came withe heavily guarded by the NJD defence I cant say it was against NJD it might have been Boston As I recall it it was NJD And he was amazing , I cant recall the Great one doing anything like this that makes Lemiux my hero . I agree to disagree !
As I said I am a huge fan of Lemieux. Numbers don't lie. Gretzky's hockey sense was unmatched. He made everyone around him better. Watch the 87 world cup hilites in Hamilton, he was in on every goal and was point leader in the entire tournament against the very best in the world. So unselfish he very well could have had another 150 goals had he not set up other players for tap in goals.
Also, it is a myth that Gretzky wasn't allowed to be hit. He was to smart to be hit. Every star player in the league had players to fight for them. Remember Lemieux was 6'4 230 lbs one of the biggest guys in the league.
@@phillcollins8380
Bro Gretz never scored 50 or more in his last 10 seasons, when they both played in the same time from 84-97, Gretzky was 1.95 PPG, Mario 2.02.
Gretzky’s PPG as a LAK is 1.70, and if he didn’t cherry picked to sign for the Oilers coming from the WHA because he had a contract with owner and he went to the draft in ‘79 the #1 had the Colorado Rockies, becoming the NJ Devils 3 years later.
Gretzky was fortunate enough to start in an era were the goalies weren’t that good and to pick the team he wanted to, but all the great numbers he had he made as an Oiler, don’t get me wrong Gretzky is for sure the player with the greatest career, but that doesn’t necessarily means he’s the best hockey player skill wise, that title definitely belongs to Mario or just to quote Bobby Orr: Gretzky had the greatest career, Mario was the best.
I do believe Mario deserves the number one spot. I lovs Gretz, I mean I'm a Kings fan, but Mario just had it all wrapped into one spectacular package. I mean for someone so huge he was just sl good with the puck
And yet #99 made 1.100 more points than Lemieux :)
Johann Strumpher 🙌🏼
Evan Singh 🙌🏼👌🏼
@@TheManInRoomFive Just more games played, that's the only reason
Mario was more skilled than Gretzky, no question. It's not about stats. It's the way he saw the ice and set up plays. He made average players score 50 or more goals in a season. Gretzky will admit it himself that Mario was a better player. They were both great players though and I miss watching them play.
i'm ok with that Mario and Bobby are my 2 all-time favorite players not only on the ice but also off the ice. Class acts.
I’m with you. The eye test tells me Peter Forsberg sits third just behind the great Bobby Orr and Mario Lemieux. Nobody terrified the other teams like those two. Both missed a great part of their prime years. When Mario retired the first time he averaged more than 2 points a game. Like Scotty Bowman said, Mario in the line up, you’re up 2-0. The whole game plan was to stop one guy. Couldn’t get done. Very much the same with Bobby. Forsberg was extraordinary also. He controlled the game. Ray Bourque and Lindstrom were also players that controlled the play. Gretzky’s efficiency dipped after leaving one of the greatest team in history with the 80s Oilers. Gretzky’s say 5th in my book. 8 points in a 10-1 shellacking is dodgy in my mind many instances of running up the score with those Edmonton teams) I unlike 6 points in 7-6 victory.
Is Kareem Abdul Jabar a better player than Michael Jordan? Even though Abdul Jabar has tens of thousands more points?
The fact that Kharlamov was excluted from the list shows that whoever makes this list is not really capable of objective judgements regarding non-NHL hockey. When Soviet team faced the Canadian NHL all-star teams in the 70's, Kharlamov always outplayed his NHL opponents with incredible skill. The only player of that time era who could match his skill was Bobby Orr.
I think this was only ment for NHL players. They could have added Makarov and Larionov as well.
***** You have a point. But this list should not be taken seriously. I mean, most of this was about how good their stickhandljng was or the moves theg could pull off. Skill is more than just pure stickhandler and fancy moves.
USSR with Kharlamov faced "Canadian NHL all-star" teams as you say only 1 time, in 1972 series. All other encounters featured various Canadian teams having nothing to do with team Canada's best. If it were only for Orr, USSR wouldn't have lost the series in 1972, you don't seam to remember Perreault's raids and Henderson's goals, far outperforming Kharlamov's stuff. But you obviously hate canadians because you are american or judging from your empty channel possibly a troll.
No, they couldn't, they both were great but the op was right. Kharlamov was without a doubt the greatest player to not play in the NHL, Orr was one of the few that could've stayed with him, but he also didn't have Mario's finesse. Nobody did! Orr was the best ever, but Mario's was still better than Kharlamov!
LOL! Gretzky was not fast. Wayne Gretzky, for one, admitted he wasn't all that fast , but his vision & his uncanny ability to force you to do what he wanted you to do was magic!
Datsyuk number 10? You must be blind.
Why??
this isn't about the best player, its about raw talent. he's an incredible player though
@@powerface71if you think about talent and scoring then yes pavel was waaayy better..
Datsyuk NEVER even had a 50 goal, 100 point season in his career.. Are u serious? Lemieux averaged the most PPG in the history of the sport... He's the most skilled player Hockeys ever had
EVERY DAY I RACE He is at least number 7
It's good to finally see a list put together that can distinguish the greatest scorer ever (Gretzky) and the greatest natural talent ever (Lemieux). It was fun watching him go to work in a seven game series against opposing goalies like Hextall, Moog, Casey, etc. He destroyed every goalie in his path. He destroyed them all. I was never a big fan of Mark Messier but he said it best, "Nobody's played the game with the pure grace and skill that Mario possess. He's got a style all his own. "
I've heard Gretzky was so good because he had a goon squad protecting him at all times and modern players will never match him because of the new regs.
(Obviously Wayne was good on his own but you know what I mean)
@@maxnovakovics2568 You also have to remember that from 80'-85', the WHL folded and the GM's brought in all of that league's skilled guys and there was a huge influx of USSR players that again were almost all the most skilled. That era was like all-star games night after night. There was very little defense aside from the highly ineffective "just try to hit em'" which ironically just produced massive numbers of PPs.
@@maxnovakovics2568 Wayne fought, not often, but he did --- Wayne was so good because of protection? HAHAHA. I saw him play live in Hartford, I was 150 feet above the ice with a bird's eye view...and an avid player (in high school at the time) he saw things from ice level that I didn't see looking down, the man was mentally 3-5 steps ahead of everyone else paired with amazing skill & and pure will. Nobody will ever match him because of longevity and filthiness...Bossy could have.
@Max Novakovics that is ridiculous. I do agree that no one will touch his scoring record because of the evolution of goalie equipment.
@@TheTicktockman321
You need to do some homework... 📚
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_NHL_expansion
1️⃣st of all, it was the WHA, via the late, great Bobby Hull's, Jets, with Anders Hedberg & Ulf Nilsson, the Stastny Brothers, from the Nordiques & that incoming influence from the young, dynamic, Edmonton Oilers, that changed the game forever. The NHL was still in the Dark Ages, in terms of their old fashioned, conservative, offensive style concepts.
In 1️⃣9️⃣8️⃣9️⃣, the first Soviet player, Sergei Pryakhin, officially was allowed to leave for the NHL, and the first defector, Alexander Mogilny, made his way to the league.
🤜Your "like an NHL All-star game night after night", "just try to hit em" comments, show a disrespectful & convenient ignorance, that inexperience often displays.
Lemieux could have easily been on par with Gretzky's numbers if he didn't miss to many games to injuries, or if he didn't have to retire at 31 years old.... Fact: When Lemieux retired he had the highest PPG in league history, he averaged over 2 pts per game.
While I believe that overall Lemieux was better than Gretzky, I think Bobby Orr was the best ever to play the game. He was injured most of his career and only played 8 full seasons. They deliberately attacked his knees in an attempt to slow him down, something they would not have allowed in Gretzky's or Lemieux's era. As a defenseman he won 2 scoring titles, came in 2nd once and 3rd 3 times and when he retired they waved the 5 year wait for him to be allowed into the Hall of Fame and inducted him the year after he retired. If you saw the video when he was weaving through people is because the other team was on the power play and he was playing one man keep away from the team on the power play, and they couldn't catch him, and he did this often. People don't realize how good he really was because of an injury layden career.
@@Tboy439 All true, yet fanatics don't care...ignorantes. Orr's single season and career +/- stat are supreme among these 3 GOATs (as I replied above, it's not even close). For all the other mind boggling stats for all 3 great hockey players, this one metric should be enough to settle it yet "robust discussions" (which can be fun sometimes) continue. Human nature...human frailty.
True, but Gretzky had a higher ppg at the same age. They were pretty close to even, IMO. The real issue is that Gretzky had better health, but I don't see how we can really hold that against him. Lemieux was just as good, but did it for less time, due to injuries, cancer etc. To me, it's a 1a 1b situation. But I can't really agree with people who think one is WAY better than the other.
Again, no mention of Bossy. +/- numbers -- ORR.
Respectfully, as a former Oiler Dynasty season ticket holder, Bobby Orr revolutionized his position, dominating from the blueline. Not only winning the scoring race, but setting the bar so high, no one's ever reached‼️
🇨🇦
when datsyuk is number 10... you know the list will be good
+Aleks Melys no he should be number one
A viet bro who also knows hockey lol. :) You have an important point that I keep stressing that is overlooked but is one of the most important things to consider when comparing skills - being "relative" to the era. Did you know that when Gretzky put up all the 200+ point seasons, the average goals-per-game in the NHL in the early 80's was 8 gpg? The gpg today is 5.5. This means a 200 pt season in the early 80's would be only137.5 points today. Ovie's 65 goal season a few years ago is really impressive, as it would be 80+ goals in Gretzky's peak early 80's. Crosby's career ppg is around 1.3, highest among active players, and that would be 1.9 ppg in peak early 80's. The reason why the late 70's and early 80's really had bloated scoring was because this was the period in time the NHL had its fastest expansion, several new teams a year, meaning many mediocre players from the minors and WHA were being merged with the NHL, specially crappy dmen and goalies. Statistically, it's been shown that Lemieux's 96 season was the most impressive mathematically. Why? Because this was the dawn of the dead-puck / trap era taking full flight, and the NHL's gpg that year was about 5. However, Mario's ppg was 2.3! Some mathmetician did the math and said that if this was done in the peak early 80's with gpg 8, if Mario played a full 80 game season in the early 80's that would have amounted to a 240+ point season (100+ goals)! These are all "what-ifs". But the one solid fact that could fairly compare Gretzky and Lemieux, it'd be the 88-89 season. Mario beat Wayne 199pts to 168pts, while both healthy playing near full seasons (Mario played 76 games, 2 fewer than Wayne's 78). And they both played on mediocre teams - Pens didn't make playoffs last in division (before Jagr, Francis, Coffey, etc...), Kings barely made it kicked out of first round. And they were both young in their primes 28 and under. To me this also reflects Gretzky's true numbers if not playing on a loaded stacked dynasty Oiler team (which won another Cup without him) in a high scoring era. Unfortunately last chance for these fair comparisons, as Mario never played a full season ever again past the age of 22 due to cancer and injuries, Gretzky got older and had his own back problems in his 30's as well. Your point about Savard is well taken, but the argument there is that any player in the past if transported today would also benefit from the same training, nutrition, medicine and evolved hockey knowledge of today's game. I can easily see Savard being a Patrick Kane or Johnny Gaudrau. In this sense Bobby Orr was a physical beast, skating the way he did the length of the ice in skates over double the weight of today's, shooting on heavy wooden sticks with no flex like today's technology and deking the way he did at full speed making everyone else look like beer leaguers. Orr definitely deserves #2 on this list.
how is datsyuk 10?
He is to me 1, not best but most skilled. Why is Kovalev even there the guy did not want to play most of the time.
yes when did things get increased in better-dom?
i must been sleeping.
or playing and/or moving piano
Smartest player, best passer Gretzky, size, strength and individual skill Lemieux, best shooter Bossy, best skater Orr, toughest skilled player Howe. Imo.
You know your hockey my friend
I was at a ny Ranger game in NY lemieux scored 5 goals against Mike Richter who will be in hall of fame the fans in ny gave him a standing ovation
I'm a Blackhawks fan. 1992 Stanley Cup Finals. When Jagr scored the amazing equalizer goal (4-4) with 4:55 left in the third period of game one, a horrible feeling of doom came over the bodies and minds of Chicago fans. The Blackhawks had been up 4-1 halfway through the second period. Sure enough, Lemieux pots the GWG with 13 seconds left and the Penguins never looked back.
Despite Hasek miracles if i remember well...
Growing up just across the Canadian/US border near Buffalo, I was so much in awe of Gilbert Perreault's ability to skate through an entire team. Electrifying was not a word used back then but it so suited him. Hockey like every sport has different generations and conditions. Acknowledgement to more modern players such as Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid, etc. but where a player gets drafted can often control their fate. I can't help but wonder given Perreault's background where he would be in hockey history had he ended up with the Montreal Canadians and not in a small hockey town like Buffalo. No slight intended on Buffalo but for many years Perreault carried the team. And I still follow the Sabres after all these years but for those who remember, can you imagine Perreault, Lafleur, Savard, Robinson, Lemaire, etc. together. It is something that in my view would have set records very few could match. But hey, that is why we all have our favourites. Enough said!
Perrault's issue was that his style of play was way too predictable. Rush up the ice, RARELY PASS THE PUCK, resulting in way more failed rushes than goals. Highly skilled, great skater, but not the most intelligent or selfless player. I have a feeling that his game never really changed from age 12 on. My point? If Perrault had passed the puck more, the Sabres would have been a FAR better team.
@@4orrcountry Hmm? Can't say I agree with that comment. Rene Robert came to Buffalo as an average right winger. How many goals did Perreault set up for him making him a much better player? Then on the left side he had Richard Martin. A great shot but to me he was the one dimensional player on that line. Either way the French Connection would not have been considered one of if not the best lines in hockey at that time without Perreault being a passing centre player. In my view it was a bonus that he also could do end to end rushes which undoubedly brought in the fans? In addition, when Perreault played for Canada, he clearly combined well with other star players such as Lafleur. Again, we all have our favourites and Perreault was mine.
@@garyfleming5156 You are correct, sir. and your detailed, cogent explanation is the reason.
Big, Gilbert Perreault fan...he was the most electrifying talent since Bobby Orr‼️
🇨🇦
@@4orrcountry He only had
Robert and Martin and he had to adjust to their limits. I think he was much more complex player in Juniors.
Jagr's ability one handed was incredible. One hand on stick, handling puck, other arm on defender keeping them at bay. Then he scores. Dude was amazingly STRONG.
I can't agree with the list or it's order perfectly. Yet, Jagr was the best long range stickhandler I haver ever seen, and I'm an old guy here. Bure the most electric, and a bright flame that I wished burned longer. Nillson, the most under-rated, and as polished a performer as thegame ever saw, elevating hockey to actual art in motion, like Ted Williams' swing in Baseball. Perrault, the smoothest combination of hands and feet EVER. Take Paul Coffee's legs and Savard's stickhandling, and you have Gilbert Perrault. Gretzky, the genius of vision, who saw more than anybody before or since, and Lemiuex, unequaled in raw power of talent. Shame he played in the 'garbage era', largely, of dead puck, trap hook and hold hockey, like Bure, Sundin, Kovalev, Jagr, Kariya, and other skilled players suffocated. I can't imagine how many points Lemiuex or Jagr would have had if their opponents were barred from slashing and hugging and draping themselves all over them. This was back in the day when a mugging on ice was normal, and penalty shots were an extremely rare occasion. They'd mop up these days. But how will the list look in 10 or 20 years? Will Crosby or Kane or Johnny T find there way on? Or anybody else? Sure they will. The oldest member on this list is Orr, from the late sixties, seventies. So no Howe, Shore, Harvey, Schmidt, Conacher, Keon, Dionne, Beliveau or Richard. It's all era dependant as the game changes and moves in different ways then it used to, and positional play is modified.
tremendous comment
The list was written by millenials,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, nuff said.
I agree, but can’t really blame them. They never saw Bobby or completely dominate a game. Completely.
Savard was one of those types of players who could stop on a dime and give you 9.5 cents in change
I know Mike Krushelnyski and asked him who was the greatest player you've ever played with or against...he did not hesitate to say "Mario Lemiuex". Coming from a guy that played with and against the Great one, (Gretzky requested he was part of his deal to the LA Kings)and all the other awesome players.
1. Valery Kharlamov, 2. Sergei Fedorov, 3. Pavel Datsyuk, 4. Bobby Orr, 5. Wayne Gretzky. Fedorov contended for nhl scoring title one year and won top defensive forward the next, and at consecutive all-star skills, he won for fastest, hardest shot, and most accurate shot. Yet Kharlamov was the best player in the world in the decade before the nhl recognized USSR talent, but starred in 1979 when Red Army beat greatest nhl all-stars 6-0 in Madison Square Garden.
my good you are from russia you are a troll@@johngilbert1651
@@michelseguin3661 Shut up Michelle
Can’t forget the passing ability of Mario as well and his line mates were always ready to receive
The day Mario was drafted I started watching and loving Penguin Hockey. When people still argue who was better Gretzky or Lemieux...that's special.
The first player that came to mind for me was Gilbert Perreault. Glad to see he's on this list, deservedly so!
Oh yeah -- he was on a team that was only going to come close. He was so damned good and he doesn't get recognized except by hockey mavens.
@@jpecci1262 I was very lucky to get to see Gilbert play in "78 at the Aud. He was magical.
I was a Blackhawks fan first-and-foremost in my youth, since I was living in N. IL at the time, but I was also a huge Buffalo Sabres fan, especially the "French Connection" line centered by the peerless Gilbert Perreault, with Rene Robert at RW and Rick Martin at LW. Getting to see them in person when Buffalo was in town - this was at the old Chicago Stadium - was one of the highlights of my young hockey life. Just glad my father liked the sport as much as I did. I'll always remember how loud - like a cannon going off! - Martin's slap-shot sounded when it hit the plexiglass in front of our ice-level seats. I got to see/hear them in warm-ups.
Also got to see Bobby Hull, Stan Mikita and all of their teammates on those great teams in the old days.
Montreal and Buffalo picked one and two in that draft class that had Perreault and Guy Lafleur. Montreal ended up picking first, so Perreault - who was French Canadian - ended up playing in Buffalo, rather than in Montreal. Both players were very highly regarded and it was a coin toss who was more-coveted.
Bobby Orr........ the greatest player of all time........speed, skill, shot, smarts, and scrap........ tough as nails
Take a look at the scoring race in 1970. He had twice as many penalty min. Led the bruins in scoring and penalty min!!!!
Adding Twice as many penalty min as the rest of the list.
Miss me with that. He’s great but many of the players playing today are better
I love Bobby always look up to him but the game is much different than the 70s now
Lol get a grip
When Orr played he was the best at everything. Speed, stick handling, passing, shooting, speed, defending. He was the closest thing to a perfect hockey player. Like it's been said, put 5 Orrs on the ice and they will crush 5 of any other player.
Orr was the perfect hockey player on ice and off.
Bobby Clark the Hall of Fame center of the Philadelphia Flyers, paid tribute to Bobby Orr, when he said, "They need a league higher than the NHL so Bobby Orr can play in it..."
Despite having basically only one decent knee by that time, and being virtually crippled off the ice, Orr was so dominant at the 1976 Canada Cup Series that it was said he was the best player on the ice - and on only one leg!
They were great players and they did amazing things on the ice. They were the good old days, with many great memories
I only got to see him play one time in person but they didn’t call the guy Super Mario for nothing. It was like watching God play hockey.
Jagr is not only top 5 hockey player of all time, skill, puck handling, goals, assists, etc., but he is also a top 5 NHL player of all time, which is incredible considering he missed 3 full seasons. I watched Jagr for over 20 years now and I have never seen anyone close to his overall game, and I have other favourites like Forsberg, Lemieux. Since 1980 (I don't know how Orr, Rocket etc would do today) I rank them Lemieux, Gretzky, Jagr for best NHL players, and Lemiux, Jagr, Gretzky for overall hockey player, top three either way.
not to mention how LONG Jagr played.
He still plays
@@GVH1305 and not paying the tax man......
Jaromír is greatly under appreciated and underrated. (The number of numb Nutz who actually think Forsberg is better than Jágr is ridiculous) After he left the NHL the first time to play in Russia, his father spoke with a Czech publication and said that - sometime during 2000 - Jaromír was bluntly told that “America DOES NOT WANT YOU TO BE THE FACE OF THE NHL” (they didn’t specify whether he meant just the US or ‘America’ as in North America as a whole - the translated article just said “America”) “The NHL will NEVER tolerate you dominating the league like Gretzky and Lemieux and the North American media WILL NEVER give you the credit you deserve”. And whoever told Jaromír that was right. He was voted League MVP 3 or 3 times by his fellow players, but the media only awarded him one Hart Trophy. And as soon as it was announced at the end of Dec ‘99 that Jaromír was on pace to score 70-80+ goals, rack up 170-180+ points and finish 40+ points ahead of the entire rest of the league in the scoring race - the refs put away their whistles and the league allowed his record shattering season to be destroyed thanks to a couple of cheap shots courtesy of Mike Peca and Dan McGillis. Mario was right when he derisively referred to the NHL as a Garage League
Bobby Orr had more impact on the result of a game then any player in NHL History.
He came into the league when the NHL went From 6 to 12 teams… easiest NHL to play in right behind 1980-1986 with 6-7 new teams. NHL FULL of minor leaguers. Both Gretzky and Orr profited from the drop in competition and started their careers with juggernauts full of Hall of famers… unlike Mario
@@patrice5976 False......a lot of AHL players were good enough to play in the NHL in the 60's. Before the expansion in 67-68 NHL teams had set teams for the most part and would only call up 1 or 2 players a year and let a lot of good players play out a wasted career. The East and West did not play a balanced schedule either.
I'm a Habs fan for over 60 years and I've seen a lot of great players and my favorites are Habs, Maurice Rocket ,Yvan the Roadrunner, le grand Jean (le gros Bill), Boom Boom Geoffrion, Guy le démon blond, Henri the pocket rocket, etc now Suzuki, Caufield. IMHO, I can't decide who's the best, Orr or Lemieux and they aren't Habs. But the most electrifying and exciting player ever for me, the one that could send shivers to my spine when he took the puck was le Démon Blond, Guy Lafleur. And the one I would have give tens of millions to have in my team was Mike Bossy, the #1 NHL sharp shooter of all-time.
I wa always a huge fan of Larry Robinson. Maybe he didn't offer the mad skills or pure excitement of some of the Montreal greats but he was one guy that any coach, fan, or player would have wanted on their side.
Infuriating that more people don't name Bossy...filthy. Best line ever to when asked how his shooting was so accurate "the net is always in the same place."
sorry - it's Gretzky
@@adamsachs9826 you’re right! Mike Bossy IS the #1 sharpshooter in NHL history. It’s often forgotten.
@@steverogers5956
I believe Big Bird may be the most complete defenceman of All-Time‼️
🇨🇦
How lucky are we in Pittsburgh to have had 3 players from this list: Lemieux, Jagr and Kovalev as well as Crosby and Malkin.
The Magic Man must be higher in that list...
There is The Great One, The Magnificent One, but these two were no Magic Man. Its called a Datsyukian deke for a reason ;) Datsyuk should technically be number one on this list. His raw skills are higher than even Lemieux.
Also, fuck Kent Nilson, throw Joe Sakic in there.
Which one?
@@designermetal1 ask siri
@@thedoctrine101 AMEN!!!!
thedoctrine101 tf? Kenta
Gretzky is the greatest ever to play the game. No question about that. Injuries and health issues are part of the game, and thus speculations of whether number 66 could've torn up the records if he was healthy are pretty much that, speculations.
However, when it comes to raw talent and pure skill, Lemieux is heads and shoulders above everyone else, without question. Gretzky even said himself that he and Lemieux are very similar, except Mario had the edge of a bigger body and wider reach.
Is Kareem better than Michael?
You Who would you pick and dress for those games you must win if your own life was at play ?
99 or 66 for a penalty shot?
99 or for the Stanley cup playoffs
99 or 66 for 7th game or Stanley cup final
99 or 66 for an Olympique tournament
99 or 66 for 1 nhl season. Or 3,or 5 seasons?
@@patrice5976 Lemieux learned alot from "the great one" in 1987 canada cup(cause he was the only one competent enough to give good advice since they both had a similiar hockey IQ for the game), but after that I would chose Lemieux, in all of the 5 scenerios you wrote. He was just that good; and better than all, even "the great one" at that time. He was like a force of hockey nature personified at that time, the only thing hindering him was his body (back broken, cancer etc). 88-93 Mario is probably the best pure hockey player that lived, and that says alot, the top 3 is always lemieux, gretzky, orr, and you will rank them according to your views (4th is always Gordie Howe for me also). For goalies it's a tie between Roy and Hasek, then you got a really good batch to fill out the rest of the top 5 (in my opinion brodeur is 5 at best).
Gretzky is the greatest point producer in the history of the NHL - hands down and without question. But that's not the same thing as being the greatest all-around hockey player of all time. There is a great deal more to the game than scoring points. Bobby Orr was the greatest all-around player ever to lace 'em up. If not him, then Gordie Howe or maybe Super Mario. Gretzky loses ground due to the total lack of physicality in his game; he didn't fight and couldn't take over a game physically and with toughness the way the others could Hockey is a physical game, there's no escaping it. Gretzky was also only so-so defensively. Granted, that's not what he was paid to do - but again, that's another vital facet of the game.
Bobby orr #1.....skill at both ends of the ice..
Datsyuk was a magician. Scary good...
but a bad teammate
Nice to see Keenan commentating here, with all the charisma and allure of a dust mite.
Rivals would play as dirty as they could against Mario and Mario would beat them (sometimes embarrassing them) playing clean. In one of his last games (1st retirement) I remember it vividly the Pens were playing the Capitals. Dino Ciccarelli who always played dirty and especially against Lemieux was the very first player to come over to the Penguins bench after the final buzzer to shake Marios hand and ask him for his last game stick. You never see something like that. Seems like such a small thing but just shows how other players in the league somewhat revered what Mario was able to do on the ice. He was that much better than anybody else playing the game.
yep Lemieux no doubt
Hands down better than anyone
He played 80% of his career in agony and still Made the rest look ordinary
Bobby Orr also played 80% of his career in agony.
BOBBY OAR
Very refreshing to hear Gretzky drop the golly gee's for a second and give himself some credit.
Also if we're talking skill, Bure is higher. He was unbelievable every shift.
Bure, bumped by Bossy.
You Who would you pick and dress for those games you must win if your own life was at play ?
99 or 66 for a penalty shot?
99 or for the Stanley cup playoffs
99 or 66 for 7th game or Stanley cup final
99 or 66 for an Olympique tournament
99 or 66 for 1 nhl season. Or 3,or 5 seasons?
Kareem Abdul Jabar the legendary best scorer ever in the nba. He outscored Michael Jordan by 6000 points Yet nobody say he’s better than Michael Jordan.
Gretzky himself said Mario was best
They all say it. Paul coffee, Eric Lindros. Every goalie.all their contemporaries
Only jingoistic Canadians would claim Gretzky is better, like the year Mario had 199 points outscored Gretzky by 50 points. They still gave Gretzky the MVP Hart trophy, that the jingoistic Canadian favouring Gretzky over the Quebec dude that will fade out of the general public conscience. Gretzky the Zeus of hockey was hit 5 times in his entire career (by accident) and protected by the league is embarrassed himself that Mario is forgotten. Ask an immigrant in Canada and they’ll know Gretzky. Love Gretzky but that constant greatest, only those who don’t watch hockey wouy say that
Exception, Mario Lemieux.
Imagine Bure if he was in the post-lockout era
He breathtaking to watch.
Prime Bure AND Fedorov was the best and fastest of the 90s in different ways; Bure was the goalscoring magnet and Fedorov turned into one of the best 2way forwards (and defense men) ever(ill take scotty bowmans word for it)
"Have you ever seen such finesse?"
Before Mario Lemieux? Nope ...
Lemieux n1 by a mile !
the goal off the faceoff at 13:35 is one of the meanest things ever
SUPER MARIO!!! :)
+RoisinT2 Thanks that's my name but the Great One is number #1
+Rosanna Rossi Not if we're talking about pure skill, which just so happens to be the basis of this video. No one in the game of hockey has ever had more skill than Lemieux.
What ever........! If your trying to tell me that Gretzky was not a skill player with superman vision and great hands your fucked.
*****
What ever.....! IF YOUR TRYING TO TELL ME THAT THE GREAT ONE WHO HAS SUPERMAN VISION AND CANT USE HIS STICK. don't respond back your FUCKED.
Lemieux was better. He passed Gretzky in scoring under similar
conditions but not long enough for people to remember, due to injuries
and cancer. Mario's first year of passing Gretzky was 87-88 where he had
168 and Gretzky 140-something. Wayne was 26, Mario
only 21. But it was not fair because Gretzky was hurt and missed
something like 20 games, Mario missed something like 6. It was Gretzky's
first year as a King I believe, split the season between Kings and
Oilers in the big trade. Then Gretzky got 168 the next 2nd full year
with Kings (coincidentally the same points as Mario the previous), but
Mario then got 199 playing 2 games less than Wayne (78 vs 76). What is
important about this 88/89 season to me, is it's a fair comparison of
both Lemieux and Gretzky both playing at their peaks (ages 22 and 27)
playing roughly the same number of games under the same conditions (two
mediocre teams with Pens not making playoffs, Kings barely making it
kicked out of 1st round). Also, it proved to me that no way Wayne
Gretzky could get 200+ point seasons if he didn't play on the stacked
dynasty Oilers team, I bet he'd never crack 170 even. His stats
significantly dipped by 40+ points and he was still under 30 (Lemieux on
the other hand comes back to the NHL out of retirement at 36 and lead
the league in points and points-per-game the games he played). And the
Oiler's dynasty peaked at a time the goals-per-game were an all-time
high in history, mostly due to the big expansion and merger with the WHA
in the late 70's early 80's, bringing in much lesser talent, especially
goaltending. Don't get me wrong, Wayne is a great player, and without
Mario would probably still be #1 in my books. He had immense skill but
also really lucked out, avoiding the NHL draft on a last-place team and
playing on a stacked team of hall-of-famers in a high-scoring era.
Without those conditions, he would still be the best, but those 200+
seasons would be around 160, 170 or so and he would have never eclipsed
70 goals. This would still make him better than everyone else, like
Yzerman, Lafontaine, etc.. at the time, just NOT better than Mario
imho.
Great list besides the fact that Jaromir Jagr should easily be ranked number 2 instead of 9 on this list. Who the hell ranked him at 9?
Great list. I forgot about Nilsson.
I Got the Moves like Jagr! (Maroon 5)
Fun to hear Ray Bourque talk about how Mario Lemieux undressed him. To Ray's defence(no pun intended) he had his back to Mario. Mario undressed him, or robbed him like a thieve.
even a broken clock is right 2 times a day -- Bourque is still a beast.
it's thief... also the song is Moves like JAGGER.... as in Mick.
Datsyuk only at 10?
Unacceptable
I'm quite surprised Jari Kurri is not on this list because he's one of the biggest reasons why Gretzky succeed. Gretzky won all of his Stanley cups (4) when he played with Kurri. Kurri's exceptional skill and chemistry with Gretzky played a significant role in Gretzky's extraordinary hockey performances.
Most definitely.
Gretzky made Dave Semenko a 20+ goal scorer... I.e. he could make ANYONE score, period. That being said, Kurri probably doesn't always receives as much credit as he should, he was a formidable hockey player.
@@temujenbarca1284 Kurri and the rest won the Stanley Cup also in 1990 (5th Stanley Cup) when Gretzky was already gone. Nothing changed even though Gretzky wasn't in the team anymore.
@@RockerFinland sure, but have you taken a look at the rest of the lineup? That team was stacked, even after Gretzky was traded.
Gretzky kept making slightly above average players score like future hall-of-famers, and accumulating massive amounts of points for quite a few seasons after he left... Kurri was excellent, no doubt, but Gretzky was Gretzky... Kurri profited vastly more from playing with Gretzky than Gretzky profited from playing with Kurri. A very little amount of honest research would leave no doubt in anybody's mind. Sorry to burst your bubble.
It's hard to argue against Lemieux being the most "skilled". And Gretzky has the the greatest resume in any sport, so it's hard to argue against him being the "greatest".
But Orr has to me the most impressive statistical achievement. His career +/- per game was the best in history of course...he scored a lot and the opposing teams never scored much when he was on the ice...
But the amazing thing is that Orr's +/- per game was almost twice as good as the next highest player in history. And it was nearly 3 times as good as Gretzky's. Orr's career was the most amazing sports spectacle I've ever witnessed.
It's funny how they talk about Jagr like he was retired, yet the dude's still putting in work at age 43. Jagr *was* and still is one of the most dominant players to have played the game.
Were you high when you made this comment? He is not dominant anymore and is a their liner at best.
Nasloxieh Rorsxez third*
Nasloxieh Rorsxez Of course he's not a dominant player any more, he's fucking 43 years old. He still has the ability to put pucks on net and be a force in the offensive zone when players who aren't even half his age can't even do that.
Nasloxieh Rorsxez he playis top six minutes dumbass and he had 67 points last year
Pyry Puustinen He is a third liner at best ON A GOOD TEAM.. yes florida is a good team but they are offensively challenged and struggle to get more than 2 goals a game. BTW, that was last year, so im specifically talking about this year. Jagr only has 5 points in 8 games. woohoo
Pittsburg penguins 2000-01 had three players of this list on the roster.
Shoulda been 4 (crosby)
No not Crosby in 00-01 he wasn't in the NHL
Bordelll Sidney Crosby was 14 years old in 2001 FYI
crosby would have been 13 during that season. he'd have been killed. he has concussion issues NOW.
I have the entire 96 season burned...Lemieux scoring at will,Jagr right behind him the whole season.....Lemieux could help a fire hydrant score 100 points (Gretz teammate in LA)..If u honestly think you have an argument over why Lemieux was not the most gifted player on the ice then go back to 99's retirement press conference
Bobby Orr.
#1 -Bobby Orr
Yeah if I remember correctly the Bruins were on the power play Lemieux turn both Oates and Bourque inside out and beat Moog... literally went right through 3 all stars...
Saw it and couldn't believe it....he was amazing
Without a doubt Mario is the greatest hockey player to ever lace up a set of skates I am grateful and thankful to have had the privilege to live in Pittsburgh and watch this man play Unbelievable.
Lucky to have seen Mario jagr and kovy a lot in person pens have had some greats
I'm surprised datyuk was only #10
Katie Menard yeah that was a joke, him being at 10.
He us at least top 5
Only at 10? Out of the 10s of thousands if not more players that have played in the league. There have been sooooo many skilled players that have come around. Number 10 is pretty damn appropriate. There's at least ten other guys that could make an argument for top 10 as well.
Datsyuks great but there were more talented players in the 90s.
Beliveau, Lafleur, Middleton, were magicians with the puck, as well.
What abut Brian "Spinner" Spencer?
In no order, my Top 5 would be: Datsyuk, Fedorov, Gretzky, Lemieux, Forsberg
TheLordSnowbro that is 5 that I would agree with.
you obviously are a detroit fan
Datsyuk, Fedorov, Yzerman, Gretzky, Lidstrom, Orr, Lemieux, Probert, McCarty, Howe
TheLordSnowbro ORR.
The skill level of Datsyuk is off the charts!!
I was at a Flyers/Rangers game when Gretzky played for them. He was playing point on power plays. He scored two goals the same way. The puck came to him, he raised his stick.. stopped at the top of his swing, looked for the opening, seemed to say "there it is", then shot and scored! Was crazy to watch.
Hockey is sadly one of those sports where the older players fade away in fan's memories. No one's fault, it's the nature of the beast as far as the sport goes. But there have been so many talented players for 100+ years.
One player on the list I want to comment on, though, is Kovalev. He's one of those players who could have been SO much more than he was. Elite talent, but the attitude never was equal. Still great, but with some heart he could have been one of the greats I think. Probably the definition of "all the tools, but no tool box."
Mario the best
orr #2 and his the only d_man on the list ...best player ever
You forgot Peter Forsberg, guys.
This is a pretty accurate list. Well done. Not typical of corporate mainstream media.
You know I never played hockey. Yet I grew up in Northwest Territories Canada and somehow have watched enough hockey that I knew EVERY name on the NHL top 100 list and could remember moments from all of them individually. ANd one thing that just makes me proud to be Canadian and have so much respect FOR the game of hockey is how much respect the players out there have for each other. Despite it's physical nature hockey is a serious gentleman's sport