CONFUSION + LITTLE ARGUMENT between Emirates A380 and Toronto!
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2021
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![[REAL ATC] British Airways A380 into Minneapolis | Medical Emergency](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OlmGd5tr9tQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The massive A380 is not easy to handle...
Thanks to the subscriber CheesyString for providing fantastic visuals for this video. That bird is huge!
Damn. That was a little tense. Thanks for uploading.
If I was in charge of a half billion dollar aircraft, I'd be tense too. I think the right level of assertiveness and action was used by all parties involved. Well done.
Then you cheesystring
@@pseudocoder78 The pilot kept saying the wrong gate not adding the A he was looking at a gate without a letter on his paperwork.
Yesterday at the Loveland Colorado airshow a blue angels f18 made an emergency landing. It smoked the brakes and blew a tire. Not sure if there's audio available
I guess when your vehicle is worth half a billion, it's okay to be a little cautious where you park. 😆
Yep 👍
His charts have no go areas because of the size of the 380. They tried to taxi him into a no go area. He was cautious. Common sense says to stop and confirm. He did this. Job well done.
Nope they should've done what they were told right away!
@@behindthen0thing525 yep, they should unquestionably move their giant airplane anywhere they're told, hit something, rip open the wing, catch fire, roast hundreds of people into little crispy critters melted into their seats. Just move the plane. Immediately. It will probably be okay.
Not to mention his job and pilot's rating at risk. That bird may be graceful in the air but she is a beached whale at some of the older, congested airports. I don't know how they get her in and out of JFK.
That was a very professional and civil exchange. Both parties got frustrated at times but remained cool headed and solution oriented. Great job all!
Indeed!
@@RLTtizME You should see the hand gestures of NYC taxicab drivers when you piss them off. lol 😂
Boo! That's no fun!
I feel like the accent changed a bit, so could it be that the other pilot assumed communications afterwards? Would explain the sort-of starting all over calmly that went ahead.
@@therealxunil2 nope, seems the first pilot had a slight arbic accent( rrr
-rolling his r's at the end of some words)...
I'm glad that the flight crew didn't back down until they were comfortable with the routing. ATC kept their cool, everybody listened instead of getting angry.
They probably also called company to confirm. After all is captain’s job on the line.
Imagine this exchange taking place at JFK.
Yeah, he wasn't about to try to get approval for this over the phone - any kind of variance like this needs to be on the ATC tapes.
There were no women involved...
Its Canada😅
This should be a study piece in conflict training. Superb professionalism.
It literally is
Normal Canadian interaction
Wow. My wife and I should listen to this in one of our therapy sessions 😂. They came to an impasse, both articulated their boundaries and respectfully held to them, they didn’t let frustration make the problem bigger, and they were able to come to an elegant compromise. Really interesting little exchange - kudos to everyone involved.
@@RLTtizME lmao
@Edward Bellingham So you'd do what was suggested: call that someone else
Your wife just needs to update her paperwork, that’s all
On the same frequency here, brother. I wish my other half wouldn't keep replaying the CVR recordings from 20 (and yes, I mean literally 20) years ago though. None of us were as skilled at; Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, when it came to relationships in our younger years. The best of luck to you and your wife my friend. Hope it all works out for you both
@@restojon1 being able to hear what you did wrong 20 years ago means you are doing well, all things considered. I crash landed much sooner than that. Keep it up.
As a frequent Emirates passenger it gives me an enormous sense of calm knowing that the pilots are so cautious. Great job and by the controller too - clearly understood the pilots caution given the size (and cost) of the beast he's taxiing.
I wouldn't give a dime to a government that practices slavery on 2021. That's just me though.
Do you fly to South Africa by chance?
@@morganghetti Emirates does NOT practice slavery. The US practiced slavery for 200 plus years, fought a civil war over it and has been at war and invading other countries non stop since WW2.
lol they give their pilots outdated and obsolete information. that's why this happened. but it's good the pilots worked thru this.
They require 2000 flying hours to get a job as first officer and 7000 flying hours to became a captain. What do you expect?
“Trust, but verify” is a two way street sometimes. Great professionalism from all involved. It doesn’t matter if you in command of a CriCri (the smallest aircraft I can think of) or an A380, that left hand seat comes with responsibilities - so there are no “stupid questions” if the PIC is not clear on what is being asked, and likewise for ATC. From a mere PPL(A).
Exactly, and I’d imagine there’s an extra element of responsibility that comes along with operating an aircraft that massive and expensive, with that many people behind you. I know every pilot’s plane is “their baby” - but to get a “super” designation for your callsign, you are in a different league and company expects you to act as such as well I’m sure.
Considering the context this was used in "Chernobyl"... Hahaha
@@EstorilEm Yes, which is also why the airlines are already getting rid of them and Airbus isn't building any more because they are too big and too restricted to where they can go, a lot like the Concord. When the French try to show up the NA market, they over compensate and price themselves right out of the competition.
@@ImpendingJoker yeeeah except the A300, A310, A320 family, A330 and A350. I would say Airbus got more successes than failures there. Even the A380 can barely be called a failure if it was a very niche plane to begin with.
@@EstorilEm The pilots are not primarily concerned with the aircraft (although that is certainly a concern as well), but the SAFETY of the flight (yes, even when it is on the GROUND). This means the safety of all human lives on board, is the MAIN concern.
Taxing on a taxiway not designed for that size of aircraft could seem “harmless” , with the possibility of only some damage to the aircraft or the pavement, but there are a ton of things, THAT INVOLVE THE SAFETY OF FLIGHT, that could go wrong!
Seems well handled by both sides given the confusion. Very professional, and they got it resolved. I understand that the captain probably doesn't want to ding the wings and have his paycheck deducted for the next 17 thousand years.
It's Emirates, he will just have his ring finger cut off.
This is Emirates. They have charts to show them where the A380 can go and where it can’t go.
This is Emirates, probably just took away one of his wives.
The controller never said: "sorry, eh"
Those are americans up there, they will have their biased visions anytime.
Pilot did everything by his book, controller was professional. Seems like their data just didn’t match up with the a380 only Gate. That’s how it’s done though, 👏🏻
Indeed.
well, he did need confirmation 'cause in the beginning, he did say the runways ahead were all red and not approved due to the wingspan and size
Emirates recently changed to using T3 on select days due to congestion at CBSA in T1. C34/C34A was recently renovated to accept the A380.
Interesting…
I wouldn't say "recently," its been a few years since the second gate was added to C34, and KLM had been using it for their B747s up until the pandemic hit. But hearing about Emirates being forced to use T3 for arrivals on certain days surprises me. It must have been a very recent thing to happen out of the pandemic, as before it hit, Emirates were exclusively Terminal 1 for both arrivals, and departures. T1 has far better resources to handle Emirates - space and personnel. T3 is cramped af - speaking from 4 years of work experience at YYZ.
Imagine how much money could have been saved if Airbus didn't design a plane that needed airports to renovate in order to accommodate it. When you add in all that renovation money, it's clear that the A380 program was a massive failure.
@@alexdaley7616 the a380 was a big bet. All signs pointed the market in that direction, but in reality it went the opposite!
@@Galf506 I'm glad it works for Emirates, they plan on operating the type for 20 more years.
When i read "little argument" i thought someone got angry, maybe strong words were exchanged. Instead this is a polite discussion between two people who disagree on an important topic. Nicely done!
See, it's Canada. Different standards apply.
It was pretty tense for Canada! xD A buddy was almost broken out at one point.
in canada that's considered a "brouhaha"
That's a common misconception that an argument is a heated confrontation. While it can be, the more reasoned idea of argument is a coherent series of reasons, statements, or facts intended to support or establish a point of view.
1. I hear two professionals stating where they stand based on information they have.
2. I'd also be worried about plane damage going on my record.
3. With this pilot, I very much doubt there would have been a Tenerife, especially if he was flying the KLM. Never hurts to be absolutely sure. Eff being on time or wasting fuel.
4. Props to both of them (or turbofans if you prefer).
Emirates uses Terminal 1 in Toronto. C34 is a gate in Terminal 3. Based on the info from Apron, there was a backlog in Customs in Terminal 1 so they moved them to C34 which is also a gate that was recently upgraded to accomodate the A380. This should have been explained to the pilot
The A380 should be upgraded to have what most new BMWs have: parking sensors and 360 view cameras.
That’s the job of the pilot’s airline, not the terminal. The airline decides which gate the aircraft uses, not the airport authority.
@@mikek5298 Definitely not true
@@CaptureKing247 it can be true. Some airports give the airline discretion and allow them to pick gates for each flight. At LAX all terminal 4 and part of terminal 5 gates are American Airlines. Aligent Air has a block of gates in the international terminal they decide what flights go where
@Capture King - EXACTLY - a few minutes of teamwork in a more helpful tone of voice/attitude from initial ATC would have averted much if not all of the stress. Instead his hostile "not my problem" tone precipitated exactly the same from the pilot. Something we can all learn from.
Most professional “argument” I’ve ever heard. Working the problem 👍🏻
Love the animations I am from Ontario. I really like how when the plane is going to the gate you can even see the airport hotel Sheraton! Great detail!
Thanks for watching!
Didja notice, this guy's been to Toronto so many times, he actually knows how to pronounce it?
@@VASAviation No, thank YOU for watching.
Prolly Canadian. So many Canadian pilots work for emirates.
That is very very good.
Used to be commercial pilot and when you're responsible for the machine and everyone inside it any sliver of doubt must be eliminated. I'm now ATCO and I can understand from the other side that when you have the utmost knowledge of your area of responsibility some pilot requests can seem weird at times. This was the most heartwarming professional exchange from both sides of the PTT button.
Really professional on both sides. Congratulations to the EK crew and Toronto ground/apron.
Things were solved cordially and clearly.
Safety was the prime focus, no egos bruised, throughly professional approach. Everyone maintained respect for each other. Was very good to hear !
Teamwork.
As Emirates and other companies that operate A380s (British Airways will soon be sending them back to North America), I imagine there will be some confusion assuming that airport parking configurations have changed in the year and a half since supers last arrived at these airports.
Credit to the pilots for reading and understanding the NOTAMs. There are so many pages of NOTAMs for large airports and I can imagine taxiway restrictions are often buried within a litany of other topics. These pilots showed up ready. Hopefully the airport managers in Toronto and the dispatchers in Dubai sort the company charts out to avoid putting pilots in this awkward predicament in the future.
I'm glad that these post-pandemic growing pains are occurring though; it means things are going right for the industry as a whole!
The pilot is ultimately responsible for his aircraft - and nobody else. The pilot being very careful is always the best decision. I flew on large aircraft, the USAF C-5 Galaxy, and we always had to be very careful about where we parked the big beast….🙂…
Hate to break it to you but the 747 is both heavier and larger than the C-5 and go to more places than the C-5 can.
@@ImpendingJoker What is the point you're making with this comment?
@@ImpendingJoker - after flying around the world for 23 years - I’m aware of that - thank you very much…
@@ImpendingJoker You completely missed the point :)
@@ImpendingJoker lol this wasn’t even a video about the 747…
In the army we use to say "Trust is good, Checking is better". Good to see the pilots follow this as well.
If this happened in JFK I am pretty certain somebody's momma would be mentioned many many times.
Hi…..I am looking for Joe.
Joe Momma! 😂😂😂😂😂
Kennedy Steve would have sent Tug Two over to sort it out.
"AND the horse your mama rode in on!"
Fun fact, we have a new tug driver I'll send him your way so you and me will be clear 😜
My mind immediately started making a list...
Pilot had paperwork for his aircraft at YYZ. He is responsible for the safety of his aircraft and souls on board.
But in return ATC know their restrictions for this type of aircraft.
ATC is there to guide aicraft around safely. As for NOTAM's. Some can be still in the system and not current anymore. In this case the time of NOTAM was expired and pilot apologized. Fatigue could have been the factor.
I am on the route where these big boys fly over my house from YYZ to and from Europe.
Pilot needs to learn how to listen kept repeating wrong gate number.
@@63076topher pilot was used to yyz. Was always gate bravo. Atc was giving him gate Charlie. Pilot never went to charlie.
Like i said above. The paperwork from the company was not updated. Also the time on the notam was expired and no longer in effect.
Pilot was fatigued and confused. You would be too if you were in the left seat for his shift. Aircraft was coming in from the middle east.
@@HuckThis1971 No reason to keep repeating WRONG gate number after being told it was wrong gate number C38 and C38A are different.
@@63076topher It was C34A and not C38A. 😉.
@@HuckThis1971 Still pilot kept not saying right gate number. He goes to this airport maybe two or three times a week the ATC is there EVERYDAY. A stands for Airbus the ATC knows what they are doing.
I'm glad that pilot took a half-second breather. Seemed like the confusion, and his job being on the line, made his response sound a bit aggravated. I'm glad it didn't escalate, very easy to let the frustration get the best of you - suddenly that phone number they want you to call becomes a whole different ordeal! Well handled by the pilot and ATC.
Seems like a different pilot took the radio after the first exchange
Seriously though. He’ll have a UAE phone. Who is going to call an international number to speak to someone when you’re sitting at the pointy end of an A380 on an active taxiway?
@@James-oo1yq I thought so at first too, but I think it's just the tone of his voice changing given time. If you skip around, before and after the Apron contact, it seems like it's the same guy. Either that or the universal pilot voice is starting to get to me.
@@StonedGamers once he realized the notam was out of date he started to consider the situation a little more. also they backed down on atc side about arranging follow me and wing walkers
@@GigsVT the 380 has wing walkers every US airport I can think of right now. The beast is just too big to wander around in close quarters unchaperoned.
The first atc was coming close to having a turf war (or pissing contest whichever you want to call it). The pilot is responsible for that plane, and if he doesnt feel safe with the instructions, he isnt moving it. That attitude has saved lives. Fortunately everyone took a deep breath and stayed professional.
2:15 “ I’m not calling anyone “ is awesome 👏 ✈️
I’ll definitely keep it handy
May not work for “possible pilot deviation” phone calls…
@@MusabJilani "I can't copy a number, I'm flying." also works 😂
Very professional pilot. Not the “ i am the captain “ type. My hat off to that gentleman. Also apron controller his communication was excellent.
I never have this problem with a PA38…but still don’t like parking to close to big PA28s. 😂😉
Professionals both sides. RESPECT!!!You all really confirmed confidence in ATC and pilots.
Kudos to all involved. The pilot did what he was supposed to. He alerted to discrepancies involving where his aircraft was allowed, asked for guidance and protected his aircraft. ATC handled the confusion professionally and drilled down to get everyone on the same page.
One of the few times when "i can give you a number to call" wasnt a bad thing!
This always has been and always will be the only 380 flight that comes to Toronto. One a day from Dubai, and that’s it. Seeing it overhead is always a treat.
If I was driving a plane that big going to a spot our documentation says not to go, I’d be wary about it too. But it got resolved civilly and all ended well
"I been here many times...."
"Yeah we remember, so we made you your own 'special' gate.
That was the most "Canadian" argument I've ever heard!
When your company policy states that you cant go.. you cant go.. simple.
"You are the ONLY one that does this." Me: "Thank you, please tell my company." LOL
And that's how it's done... Kudos to both sides
Nice to see these huge birds are still flying... ✈️👍
@@RLTtizME 🤣😅
Pilot did the right thing by acting on the side of abundant caution!
Caution ?
He threatened to block the airport taxiway. His safety could increase the risk to others.
Being selfish I'm aviation is not acceptable. Unruly pilots who are not able to respect authority and follow instructions put their arrogance above the safety.
@@MussafahMarco omg he did not threaten. You obviously have no understanding in the topic.
The pilot could not follow the instructions so he notified ATC and they were ok with that.
@@jaroslavsevcik3421 ATC had to help him coordinate and get him to his gate safely (due to the wingspan ) C34 at AK (Charlie34 at Alpha/Kilo)
Pilot was perfect. No matter what someone says, if it doesn't feel safe, don't move.
As this is a new thing, the ATC could have been a little more forthcoming about that. The pilot was clearly making sure his aircraft was safe and that is to be commended. So much for that legendary Canadian hospitality, though at least the ground team still get it. Times are definitely changing.
its not a new thing. The A380 has been flying into Toronto since it was rolled out.
@@Hornet411 I think Commerce was referring to the C34A gate for the 380 which was apparently a recent addition.
Whoa now eh bud
@@GuardedDragon 😄👍
@@Hornet411 Sure, although apparently for terminal C gates, it was a new thing.
It is indeed a very big bird, so I understand the A380 crew that they are careful.
A lesson for the wider world. Stay calm, be respectful, communicate your point, LISTEN to the response and move forward. 👍🏼
Excellent work on all parts. No issue pushing back for unknown territory and destination on both sides. Well sorted! Just really well sorting new rules and those responsible for receiving the craft and the patience of the ATF crew responsible to explain and get the job done with respectful and repeated communication. And of course, support as needed. Props to YYZ!
Thank you this excellent video. I truly enjoyed it. Such a professional exchange AND a Very Canadian way to go about it. 🖖🙏🇨🇦
That's a very smart pilot, and excellent controllers IMO. Nice work to these professionals and great job on the video.
Great post. This was fascinating. And I found the comments to be informative and respectful. Thanks.
Thanks Victor for these gems u find. Great video showing problems with the moving large jets around an airport
Very professional. Worked the problem, not the personalities.
Charlie gates are also a completely different terminal to what they're used to. Pretty much opposite side of the airport.
Very professional and civil resolution.
Very nice video, very interesting for CRM training : the individual ability to express a doubt and want it resolved before obeying is really a key matter for air safety.
Great video and very clear comms. Very professional from both sides. A lot to be learned from this type of exchange.
that's how i am when parking at walmart.....
Great job by the crew! Not so much with the first controller whom I feel got a bit snotty about the discrepancy.
A discrepancy should have also put that controller on alert.
Definitely a video for the classroom. I am sure ATC and pilots informally study all the confrontational exchanges, but you can learn even more from this one.
Good communication. Better to be safe than sorry. Very professional exchanges.
Very professional on both parts! We can all learn from this one!
That's the first time I've heard (and I used to work at CYYZ for 4 years) of the Emirates A380 going to C34 in Terminal 3 - their gate is normally E72 in Terminal 1 - T1 has more resources to handle the Emirates flight, in terms of space for the plane, for all the passengers, baggage, and cargo a bird of that size brings in. From what I heard in the video, there was a lot of congestion for international arrivals, hence the plane going to C34, and the only other time in the past 4-5 years I've heard of planes going from T1 to T3 was when there was a fire in T1, forcing all arriving T1 passengers to go to T3 for processing.
Oh, and as a side note, its not the "DTA Office," its the GTA Office - Greater Toronto Area, or, since this is the airport, the GTAA (Greater Toronto Airport Authority) Office.
Terminal 3 is a cramped place, especially for arrivals, its almost claustrophobic with its low ceilings at baggage claim, as opposed to Terminal 1. I wonder how the Emirates flight fared there.
Well I can’t speak for the offload of the Emirates flight itself, I can say that everything around it was extremely congested. There were several different international arrivals at the same time, clogging up The restricted area we offload.
well...sometimes, restricted area(s) can also be indicated on the paperwork
Well done to all concerned. Genuine concern for all around safety of the aircraft and all the people on it. Excellent cooperation.
True. After have been in the job of towing AC’s this was one of the best Convo. Between AC capt, and tower 👍🏽
And that’s why I always try to fly Emirates!
A quick look at a Toronto Airport map and Goggle Earth shows why that area was 'red lined' for the Big Birds. But as the controller said when there are no other aircraft parked on either side of C34 there is room for the Airbus.
Transcription correction: 4:42 "No, absolutely we understand and I guess today's Day One for us as well to have you guys over there..."
That was nice to listen to
Thankfully I don't fly a super, can't imagine how restricted their ground movement is and how carefully they have to read their notams
Amazing example of how true professionals resolve a situation of potential conflict. Show this to ATC and pilots during Human Performance theory class please.
Professionals on both sides, all sorted very amicably.
Love the vid of air craft moving on the ground...... Please do more of that as it really enriches the story of what is happening... Hearing it would give me the wrong idea but getting to see its such a big bird taking up all of the run way with its engine span, really helps us see the problem.....
Very professional…. Amazing things happen when we work collaboratively.
I did't get the impression of an argument, just of a diligent Captain doing his job...
All disagreement should be solved this way keep the blood pressure low.
Bless! Nice to hear they worked it out. Better safe (and getting ATC's back up a tad) than having a big bird strike!
Yes, indeed.
Hats off for the 380 pilot standing his ground, and putting the safof his passengers and aircraft first. A big kick up the ass for the paper-shufflers that let this crew down and inconvenienced any other flights.
Everyone looking for safety, and everybody did their part of job in professional way
Tower: I have a number for you to call
Pilot: I'm not calling your number!
I can't wait for someone else to try this for a different reason
WOW, this video is just so... perfect
the actual registration too even!
I don't know why everyone thinks both sides were cooperative and resolved the issue calmly. There are two different conversations in this video.
In the first half, the pilot finally laid down the law with the idiot in the tower and told him he HAD TO get wing walkers, etc. if he wanted him to park there.
In the last half of the video the pilot is talking to the guys on the Apron (ground). He is no longer talking to the tower. The conversation with the Apron was very congenial and professional because the guy from the Apron knew what he was doing.
I'm surprised the pilot didn't ask for a phone number to call and report the idiot in the tower.
You are one of the few who understands
Love it, love Emirates, love the staff at Toronto
I liked so much this one… very funny! ✈️💪🏻😆
Very professional conduct on both sides.
C34 at the end was a nice touch and evidence of the detail you put into your videos and channel overall.
Glad you liked it
Better be SAFE than Sorry 😢 #SkyBaum
This was not a safety issue.
@@TheSurrealGoose Are you sure? If the crew's paperwork shows no approval for the gate and taxiways that should be cleared up. And that's what they did. Imagine ATC made a mistake and the crew just overruled their paperwork thinking ATC knows best. That would be a "safety issue" bound to happen, so they did the right thing and made sure everyting's safe.
This is a great example of how if all parties involved verify what's going on, try to understand where everyone else is coming from, and do so in a polite professional manner things have a way of working themselves out safely. Neither ATC (you Canadians are so cute), nor pilot crew stepped over any lines, even though it seemed to get tense for a moment.
well, if you don't follow the paperwork & the rules, you could get written up
Very good communication. Level heads are required when dealing with such expensive equipment.
Amazing convos... People need to listen to this..
That's the most Canadian argument ever.
Next version of A380 will have folding wings... 😆 Lol
Already receiving this modification at the scrapyard.
Always a good idea to verify and verify again whether in the air or on the ground, more so the former of course.
Well done. Safety through due diligence achieved.
Excellent pilot
The pilot did the right thing in the face of conflicting information
I work at Pearson airport. I was there the day that aircraft came in. I was shocked to see it at C34 since I had no idea it could even park there. It caused huge congestion in international arrivals. As I was working an Air France arrival at the time, we ended up offloading on a barely used belt. On the bright side it was the closest I’d ever gotten to the 380 since I work exclusively Terminal 3 and this aircraft always parks at Terminal 1.
There are some gates which have 2 configurations. Example where i used to work we had 19 and 19A. same gate but different set ups. For smaller aircrafts we used 19 with jet bridge and for bigger long hauls we used 19A, where they parked a bit further away and used stairs. Like a remote stand. Can find all this info in the AIP.
Can Canadians not be any nicer? Lol. Great example of professionalism from both parties 👏🏼
The captain did exactly what he should have -- the concern was more than the monetary cost of the plane & facilities -- it was about the safety of the people.
Great job by both the crew, and ATC personnel!
Thank you very much for this video! Yes, the A 380 isn´t easy to handle, especially not after a long non-use caused by the Corona-Pandemia. The situation was very professional handled from both sides.
It’s good to see it stayed respectful even though they were annoyed
Sounds like Emirates Operations never considered this option. Two sides with different information that needed to be resolved...good on pilot for being extra cautious.
They dont want to leave Terminal 1 which is newer and is for Star Alliance, which emirates is not
Imagine this conversation in JFK 🙈!
Excellent professionalism!
Everyone was so careful and nice with each other!