I always pre-fill my oil filters and I have done it in the way that you show in the video, into the dirty side through the inlet holes. I have seen various engines that had oil changes where a dry oil filter was installed. I would typically hear the valve train clatter loudly for up to 10 seconds. Now, the customer not being in the shop would not know this and would be happy about having his oil changed with a new filter in place. He probably would not be happy if he heard that metal on metal clacking at the first fire-up of his engine. I can't imagine that this metal on metal contact with no protective oil film occurring every 3K to 5K miles at each oil change would prolong the life of the engine. This is opposed to when an oil filter is pre-filled and the valve train clatter is reduced to something like 1 or 2 seconds. In my own personal car, I would additionally disable the ignition and crank the engine until I would get an oil pressure reading. When I would then reenable the ignition and start the car there would be virtually no valve clatter initially.
And this is why on diesels you prefill oil filters because there is no ignition system the so you can't disable the starting of the engine because it's done by compression of the air fuel. No spark.
@@Jon-O. I'm not a diesel tech, but you can prevent a diesel engine from starting by disabling the fuel injection. Pulling the ECU fuse or jumping the starter relay to crank the engine with the key off so the ECU doesn't fire the injectors are a couple potential solutions, I'm sure there's others.
The film of oil that remains on the internal parts doesnt magically evaporate as soon as you take the filter off. If you're hearing parts rattle after an oil change, you,ve got more expensive problems than just N empty filter.
@@jmh4ggg The residual oil film left on the parts gets squeezed out from between bearing surfaces pretty quickly due to the contact pressures between moving loaded parts. If there isn't oil pressure there immediately after a start to replenish the oil that has been squeezed out then there will be nothing to fill the void between bearing surfaces and there will be metal to metal contact. Prefilling the filter reduces the time it takes for the filter canister to fill with oil, the filter medium to get saturated with oil and then for oil flow to the galleries. This is why, as Scotty correctly says, that most of the engine's wear occurs on startup, particularly a cold start. When you have an empty and dry filter you only lengthen the oil starvation time at startup, not a good thing for engine longevity. If you're not planning on keeping the car past 80k miles then maybe it doesn't matter.
The fact this is even debated is the most amazing aspect of the prefill or not discussion. It just highlights how people can see something so simple from two completely different ways and it’s really kind of surprising. I think part of the problem is the very different perspectives between heavy equipment and commercial shop work versus the average DIYer at home with their personal vehicle. I can only speak really from the DIYer point of view, and from that perspective unless it’s a unusual situation the oil from sealed bottles is cleaner when you put it in the engine than it will ever be again. So unless you’re adding contamination or debris from your technique of adding the new oil, then that brand new oil is clean and doesn’t need to go in the outside holes of the filter. If you got contamination in the oil or if it was a very unusually bad batch of contaminated oil from the oil manufacturer, that’s a different but very rare situation. And prefilling the oil normalizes oil pressure and oiling function sooner than starting with an empty filter, particularly if the filter is vertical and can be easily and effectively prefilled. If it’s a horizontal filter, that makes prefilling less important and less of a difference. Watch the videos from “the motor oil geek”(Lake Speed’s son, can’t remember his first name). He recently did a video that proved oil pressure and lubrication system function normalized and stabilized sooner with a prefilled filter. It’s not like it makes a huge difference, but it is better to prefill the filter at least in the case of most normal passenger car engines. There may be some unusual types of engines with variations in oil flow and such that might change the outcome, but for I’d say for 95% of engines it’s better to prefill the oil filter. Not prefilling won’t result in engine failure and you’ll never know the difference, but you’ll have slightly more bearing wear with every startup after an oil change with a dry filter.
I've never prefilled my oil filters for over 25 years and never a problem, but I also only change my oil every 5 to 7k miles, and typically retire my cars around 300k miles. I'm probably very lucky. LOL
you may not realise it but dirty oil can come right out of your can or barrel, we have had oil samples tested to verify that and in some cases the oil was dirtier out fresh barrel than the oil drained out of the pan at 20000 miles.
bob cat well one might think that is logical but the contamination from running in an engine is different than that of what the oil comes with new, which some of that contamination is not removed by the filter. Also, the heating and cooling process along with aeration that the oil goes through while in an engine causes the oil to break down and not provide the same level of lubrication, protection and cooling as it was new
i have a diesel engine repair/rebuild shop. people have kept my doors open for 40 years by filling filters. especially fuel filters. a contaminated common rail fuel system can exceed $10,000.00 in repairs because someone filled a fuel filter from a fuel can. happens all the time. new oil isn't as clean as you think. empty a gallon into a white container and come back 24 hours later and you will see the contaminates. keep up the good work!
When I rebuilt my old Ford, I spun the oil pump with a drill to prime the entire system before installing the distributor and cranking the engine. No dry start here.
Not a bad idea, but not necessary. If you rebuild your engine right, then there should be some sort of assembly lube on every bearing. journal, etc where oil is needed. That lube is more than enough lubrication to turn your engine over a few times and at that point you should have good oil pressure and oil at all exits in the system, otherwise you have bigger problems. That lube is oil soluble so it will stay on those surfaces until there is oil there to replace it.
@@awashbowler Disagree, pre-oiling is always better. If it wasn't, why are some of the most expensive engines always fitted with a pre-oiler (RR Merlin, Allison V-1710, etc).
Always prefill the filter. I've always done it...the odds of getting contaminated new oil and it causing damage is FAR LESS likely than damaging your engine by dry cranking your engine. Even a fool can tell you that a couple seconds of no oil pressure can cause severe bearing / Crankshaft damage. This guy shouldn't be making videos because he's going to ruin a lot of your engine's by giving you bad advice.
Been filling filters and building engines for 40 years. Simply poured oil in the large center hole of the filter every time; I've not yet seen oil contaminants from new oil containers. I don't know about bulk oil but there's no way anything but pristine oil is coming out of a new, sealed oil container. Not sure what the fuss about on this vid.
Yeah I agree that it's clean oil coming out of a sealed container. But on the off chance that there were contaminants in the oil from the factory I'd rather fill from the outside.
How would one go about getting the uncontaminated oil out of the container without contaminating it assuming it really is uncontaminated? I mean you have to break that seal with something and I am willing to bet it is something contaminated.
Agreed. If you prefill your oil filter, fill it from a quart bottle, it's much cleaner than the oil in a bulk container. Bulk container oil can then be used to fill the crank case, since any contamination will be filtered out by the new filter, before being pumped into the oil galleries.
On my 74 Ford E-300 van with a 302 C.I. gas engine, I pre filled the oil filter before install. The oil pump was spun with a drill before the first start, but I just got in the habit of filling the new filter while draining the motor and the engine was clean as a pin at teardown after 20,000 hard miles and oil changes at 5,000 mile intervals. The engine had a part failure not due to any problem with lubrication. After fixing the problem the engine has run perfectly for another 175,000 miles with no problems. I have and will always fill the filter during every change.
I work with marine diesel CAT C18’s and I’ve always pre-filled fuel filters. This is mainly due to how much of a nightmare it is to operate the manual fuel priming pump due to its location (under the engine room walkway). Not pre-filling turns the job into a complete nightmare.
@@wilburshuman that’s the mind set of a shit mechanic. Nice work over those 30 years I’m sure those companies paychecks cashed no problem but because you have no pride, no coveralls, or no balls your the type that will cut corners and half ass your job so the next guy in line(probably an actual mechanic) will have to cover for your lack of professionalism and due diligence.
Once I didn't fill my oil filter. 87 Chevy small block. Took a bit for oil pressure to come up, and the engine didn't sound happy. Have always filled filters. 30 years so far no bad engine. Had to edit. The oil is under pressure it is keeping metal from metal. The little bit of oil left behind isn't lubricating much at all. Rotatating parts will still touch.
I always prefilled both oil and fuel filters (yes, through the center hole!). I'm more concerned about lubing up the O-ring more than anything. Installing dry O-rings are a no no in my book. The warning on the filters are for liability issues. Some idiot is bound to get something nasty in the filter if you give them the OK to prefill. JMO!
i allways prefill my filter, never had a problem. in fact the people that don't prefill their filters, on start up you can hear a bunch of rattling never sounds good. My advise prefill your oil filters. Use clean oil and make sure the seal is completely removed before pouring.
@@stevenharden803 New oil doesn't mean it's clean oil. More often than not, oil from a brand new container does not meet the cleanliness standards of most OEM's
@makemoneymowinglawns.com With all do respect, the machines from the last 54 years required very little in terms of contamination control as compared to the machines of today.
If I fill a NEW filter with NEW oil where is the contaminates coming from? I fill my oil filters and hear 1 second of knocking , I dont fill my filter it can last 5 or 6 seconds longer , I think I will stick with my common sense , it has served me well for decades.
I prefill for the same reason... 1 second of knocking , I dont fill my filter it can last 5 or 6 seconds longer. Never a problem, even after 120K miles.
Instead of pre-filling my oil filter, I just soak the filter media in oil for a few. I have a Subaru with a top mount oil filter. Physically cannot pre-fill it. But, I understand how liquid filtration works. Liquid filters work best when the filter media is pre-soaked with the filtered substance or its solvent. So, I fill the filter with clean oil, swish it around some, then put the filter upside down in the funnel and let the excess drain into the engine. This way on my first start, the filter medium is pre-soaked and it will filter better.
That's why most diesel engines have hand prime pumps, some of the equipment I worked on had electric pumps to prime the fuel system. Now that I work for a International dealership I have found some with electric pumps and some with hand prime pumps. The power stroke engines or dt444 will not bleed the air out of the system, so after you install the filter but before you put the cover back on you have to cycle the key to fill the housing, this also holds true for the maxxforce 7 . When I worked at the landfill on mostly CAT equipment, CAT told us not to fill either oil or fuel filters; Hand prime only via electric pump or hand prime pump. As for the oil they say they have enough oil to idle while the oil pump picks up prime. When I do a in frame or out of frame overhaul I prefer to use STP oil treatment for pre-lube as it tends to stay put for first start. The D-8 we had was equipped with a pre-lube system, you could turn the key all you wanted and the engine would not crank until the oil pressure came up. I feel the best thing anyone can do for a engine is to give it a little warm up time every time it is started. This gives the oil time to get worked through the engine before it is put under load. If a few minutes is going to make you late, your already late.
mrgearheadfromhell the big Cat engines like the 3512 and 3516. Have hand priming pumps, but they are extremely difficult to prime once air gets into the system. The best way I found is to pump rapidly while cranking the engine and keep pumping even after one or two cylinders fire. Not easy. One thing I liked about the old Detroit Diesels is they never get air bound. The EMD engines are the same design, never an air problem.
I like fuel systems that include some type of priming device to pre-fill the fuel filters. If you have a priming pump before your fuel pump you can use that too. I have also used a priming bulb from a boat plumbed into the system to pre fill the fuel filters because I don't want to contaminate my fuel system, particularly on these new high pressure fuel systems.
The John Deere high pressure common rail fuel filters come with a plastic funnel that Blocks the center of filter and diverts fuel to small side hoes for filling. I alway fill my oil filters when applicable with only the cleanest oil. From a non contaminated source
so yes the pump is bad but we are doing a low budget fix(all ready the HUEI pump rebuild went for $695!) so i went and got a low pressure electric fuel pump and got it hooked in the outlet from the tank and before we go and spend another $200 for a used pump on ebay we went that way, tomorrow i will know if it works(started pouring and never ended perks of living on a tropical island) so once again i thank you for the help and tips have a great weekend and keep up the good work and advice for people like me who don't know a lot about diesel and caterpillars in particular.
So my Doctor told me when it comes to getting injections through my IV it didn’t matter if there was a big air bubble in the syringe as my heart would cough out all that air since there’s always some residual blood in there anyway...
I pre fill all oil filters, whether they go on my bike, lawn mower, or any of my cars. If you pre fill a filter in the center hole, it will still fill the entire filter. It might take a bit to do it, but it will have oil in it. As for a fuel filter, I never fill them unless it's on a diesel engine that way it won't get air in the system. I have pre filled oil filters for over 20 years, and have never had any issues.
RakinBill it's not about filling the entire filter, it's about the fact that you want to pour the oil into the inlet side so it has to pass through the filter media before going through the engine. even new oil can have a bit of shit in it
How can new oil have crap in it? Especially if it's from a sealed bottle? I take extra care and caution when I fill filters, and yes I know it's going in the outlet side of the filter. The center threaded hole is the outlet into the motor, and the outer portion that has the reverse flow seal is the inlet side, but I have never had any issues with doing it that way. I find if I prefill the filters, it builds up oil pressure faster after a startup from an oil change. It holds true, especially on older cars with more miles on the engine.
Nice to see a video by someone who knows what they are talking about. On one of my loaders owners manual, it stated the engine warranty was void if the engine oil filter was not filled at the oil change.
In the case of oil: if the new oil I'm putting is in some way contaminated... how is that not an issue when pouring it directly into the engine via the filler cap?
From the oil pan it’s pumped through the filter then goes to engine. If you fill the clean side of filter it goes straight to engine without going through filter.
@@thenomad7120 But you don't pour oil straight into the oil pan. To _get_ to the oil pan it has to go through the engine first. So any "contamination" is getting one pass through the engine either way.
I completely agree with what you said. I have three International IDI's in my Ford trucks. I always prefill their fuel filters, otherwise I'd be sitting there cranking forever to purge the air with their mechanical lift pumps...
Lot's of newer engines are designed with the oil filter upside down. This prevents you from pre-filling you filter. Do you think the manufacturers are trying to tell us something?
+Harvey Smith They do that for a reason, on some of Caterpillars older large 3500 series engines they had sideways canister filters as well, pretty hard to prefill those as well, but never seemed to cause problem. Those canister tanks probably helps 3 gallons of oil too so it took a little while to fill from the pump.
FACEPALM! Every day you start your engine on your car it will run for quite a time without oil presure, do u realy think that prefill your filter every 20000 miles give you an advantage on wear?? Not prefill your filter is MUCH better than the risk of and idiot dose it terrible wrong! Most contaminations dose not matter, butt one particle of some hard stuff fuc.. up your berring quite easy!
john jay Jea sure most modern cars got valves in the oil system to shorten the time for oilpresure to build up, but the fact that your control lamp go out doesn't mean there is instanty oil flow on your main berings they always got some contact at the start. but that's nothing to worry about, also if u don't pre-filled your filter ;) my Mercedes m102 engine first generation doesn't have a valve for holding back the oil, at every start you can hear from the noise change when the oil comes, after 320000km I restored the engine, and the Bering's got just light touches on them. and also oil change after 6000km, wt.... merica?
Hauled bulk oil for over twenty years! Best quality control measures i have seen are Chevron, Mobil-1, Valvoline. Any one of these manufacturers i would have no issue pre filling an oil filter. P.S. my 03 Tahoe has 300,000 miles on original engine, pre filled filter ever time using mobil-1 synthetic! Good video though i have seen some crap over the years as well! Thanks!
The comments just show how people do not understand fluid contamination in bulk oil and the manufacturing process. Often times, the oil is dirty before it gets poured in the engine and then the bypass filter cleans it up. If you don't believe me, order a _Particle Count_ on any virgin oil sample. CAT fuel filters are like 2 microns, way smaller than dust.
+heavymechanic2 Cat seems to think it's a big enough problem that they consider it better to run it without oil for a few seconds than with the unfiltered oil.
Almost all engines have a oil bypass built into them. Only about 10% of the oil gets filtered until engine is warm. Even then best case scenario 80% of the oil gets filtered after engine reaches operating temp. Not filling your filter because of contamination is just STUPID
PQIA does random oil testing and has confirmed some oil in the bottles is too dirty to pour in your engine, its the whole point of this video. You guys are confusing *Boundary Lubrication* with *Hydrodynamic Lubrication* Anytime the lube or fuel system is opened, its subject to contamination.
heavymechanic2 Wow you know some fancy terms. How does that change the fact that 90% of that new oil won't be filtered on startup. New or old dirty oil is always more preferable to no oil.
On the fuel filters for a Deere 8.1 engine, they come with a dandy little funnel that screws into the center hole, and forces incoming fuel to fill the filter from the outside in, as it should be done. As far as pre filling oil filters goes, the only one that I ever ran across that pre filling was mandatory was the turbo filter on an EMD turbo engine, and their manual said nothing about the "right way", so the vast majority of those were filled via the center hole straight from the boat's bulk oil tank. :-/ Good tip on the dust cap, I used to teach my guys that trick. Another thing that we'd do for filling those turbo filters was to raid the rag barrel, set the filter in a five gallon bucket like you do there, and then pack rags around the filter so it would stay upright. Good video, loads of good information. Thanks!
Out cat loaders have these awesome fuel primer switches. All you do is screw on the new, empty, filters and then flip a switch and an electric motor pumps fuel from the tank into the filters. Once you hear the air bubbles stop in the return to the tank, it's prefilled/primed.
always have filled them up in the center. as long as its new oil and new fuel. worst thing you can do is not prefill a filter especially on a big engine that has several oil filters and sometimes a gallon or 2 of oil can cause unnecessary and premature engine wear. but hey what do i know
+Painting Place ah, makes sense I guess. but if there is oil already in there, clean side or not, the delay would be only like a second since the engine builds oil pressure right from cranking
You have aerosols or you can just be plain unlucky and something from the bottle falls down into the drain. It's better to be safe, even if you can't understand why you do it
+Derhder again a new jug of perfectly clean oil isn't going to to that. if you're clumsy you might drop something in there I guess, but that would be your own fault
Great topic. I do several services a week, I've always pre filled the fuel filters, never pre filled the oil filter, can't imagine trying to screw on that big C15 filter full of oil.
This whole discussion should not include diesel owners/techs that have/service engines smaller than 11liters. When you work on big engines different rules apply. The sheer weight of the big block oil filer filled with oil makes it almost impossible to screw it on by hand. On ISX15 for example the access to the filter is very limited and you can try all you want to screw it on with oil in it, but if you strip those threads than you are in real s**t! Now, it will cost thousands in labor and down time to fix it. It is just safer and more practical not to put oil in. You can add some if you really want, but it's basically pointless. Yes, Cummins wants them prefilled but....
So long as your not sloppy and prefill your oil filters (doesn't matter which side) with new oil using a clean funnel you won't have any issues. As for fuel filters, all the CATs I work on have hand operated priming pumps on the secondary filters. On the bigger CATS this is essential as the filters are reasonably large and will push the internal volume of air through the fuel system damaging pumps, injectors ect.
I run different viscosities than recommended, I run diesel oil in my gas engines, I run 250-300 hour intervals and if I can fill a vertical filter before I put it on I will. Any hydraulic systems worst enemy is air on start up. I saw a guy refuse to fill an N14 oil filter before he started the engine because he was scared to get shit in it and he spun the bushing out of the front structure enclosure when it started, bushing came right out through the Teflon seal, contaminated the gear set with chunks of bushing and caused like 3000 dollars damage. I’d never risk not having as immediate oil pressure as I can have. There’s minimal “crud” in new oil out of a clean jug. If you’re careful it’s fine and I treat everything like an operating room when it comes to precision machined parts. The flow through a fuel filter is so low that if there was a piece of sand at the bottom of the tube it wouldn’t ever get out into the fuel pump. I honestly think most of the damage in bearings comes from the perforated steel tubes. The cat filter is superior with the composite tubes.
Thanks for this video! I am no mechanic but do change the oil in my truck regularly. Yesterday i had the bright idea to fill my filter into the center hole. I notice too on this change the filter is leaking a bit. I will try and tighten and see it that helps but MAN I learned my lesson. Thanks for your Expert Advice.
ice read some of the comments. I was a fleet mechanic (O T R) before you were born ! (70s-is) . The this I dealt with had 2 oil filters and each one heald 1 gal. of oil. Pre filling was mandatory ! In the time it took those filters to fill, you could destroy an engine ! I still work on cars and light trucks and I ALWAYS pre fill !
I fill my oil filter with clean oil to save running dry while bearings clank and knock. Minimal risk of contamination outweighed by immediate lubrication in my opinion On a diesel filter which is much more sensitive to any fine contamination, you fit it dry and use the primer pump to only supply clean filterered fuel to the engine which you cant do if you fill the filters.
Wow what a rebel you are. I love it. Lots of common sense I bet many are lacking in the comments below. I'll read them later. Yeah many times I have looked in the new oil bottle and saw debris and junk in the bottom. Not that hard to build a device to prefill filters though. I am surprised more people don't do it. Lots of people don't understand the function of the oil film and the oil film strength. A "no oil pressure" situation is not an immediate death threat for an engine. As long as the oil film is intact the surface will be fine. Oil supply is the most important thing except where piston coolers need the pressure to squirt up to the pistons. I have been running a GM 6.5L diesel that has a no oil pressure condition when it is hot. I have 60 thousand miles on that engine. It has been that way since "new". I have taken a few precautions. I don't like it but haven't had the time or money till recently to fix it. 180 degree thermostat. A manually switched external additional oil pump feeding cooled oil right before the turbo. etc. Examined the bearings before a long trip and they were in good shape.
+consaka1 I appreciate the kind words. A lot of people disagree with this video, but I'm just telling them what the manufacturer recommends for their engines. The manufacturer designed the engine and I'm pretty sure they would know best for their engine.
Yes , you are exactly correct . However I have been filling filters from the center forever but after seeing this and knowing the risk I have imposed on my engines doing field maintenance etc. Maybe we could build a filter primer for fuel and oil . Thank you for this video .
Got a Cummins m11 in a boom truck. New in 98, oil and fuel filters always prefilled. Never been rebuilt, even after a runaway turbo about 5 years ago. As long as you’re careful and don’t have fuel cans with dirt in them from lazy people leaving caps off
on my classic car i just dont pull the choke until the oil light goes off on my newer (but high proformace) car i unplug the plugs crank untill the oil light goes out then plug them in again before starting
Yeah , same here... just let it crank but not start, disable ignition or just let the diesel pump in shut off position..disconnect some sensor that is vital for starting. whatever, the older the car is the easier is to fool it. Newer cars complain too much :-)
I usually pre-fill the water separator and the fuel filter of my crane's C15 engine. thanks to your video, now i know i've been filling them the wrong way (through the center). thumbs up for you.
This all makes sense. The only time iv ever prefilled a oil filter is when it's verticle. Mine on my LBZ Duramax is horizontal so I don't prefill the filter. The fuel filter IV never prefilled due to you manually priming the filter plus I have a lift pump that circulates my fuel. But this was good info thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge.
+VK70001.P The point of this video wasn't too discourage prefilling, just if you are going to do it, fill it from the dirty side. Just relaying the information from Caterpillar too. Thanks for commenting.
Ahh but how do you know? Do you build your own engines? How would you know if you had scratches on bearings as a direct result of the common new but dirty oil? Look in the bottom of any new oil jug and you can see debris.
consaka1 i do look at the bottom of every oil jug befor it goes in my truck and i know my bearings are fine because i have good oil pressure when your bearings get scratched or gouges they let oil passed then faster and oil pressure will drop also yea i do a compression test and borescope my cylinders every time change my spark plugs and wires and idk what no name dollar store oil you're buying but if it has debris in it don't buy it i use motorcraft 10-40 or valvoline 10-40 and you ask how do i know i have no problems? BECAUSE THE TRUCK STILL RUNS LIKE NEW jack ass
I have a series 60 we pre-filled since new. at 1,000,000 miles. The blowby suction tests showed no loss in compression and the oil samples were always in the green. I pre-fill because I know how much oil each truck uses exactly when I pre-fill. When I am done pumping oil, the level will be at the line on the stick even after warming up. CAT is crazy on fuel filters, it's not just difficult to prime, its damn near impossible without pre-filling.
if you fill the filter from the center and wait a min. the oil will soak through the filter to both sides if your worried about dirt. then don't get your oil out of the waste tank!!!!!! nothing to worrie about if the oil comes out a a new container of oil.
Anthony Harvey , yah some were saying that new oil is dirtier than before it goes through your filter what the **** ahhhhh NO I think the oil manufactures KNOW how to manufacture oil !!!!!! You looknlong enough you see it all I guess .
I ran a Caterpillar 85C for 6 years. I always prefilled the oil filter. Never had a problem. I never prefilled the fuel filter. Always pumped it full with the hand pump.
+Myron Parks A lot of the truck engines don't have hand priming pumps so prefilling can save you hours of time, but just do it right. The oil is fine to pre fill, just best to pre fill on the dirty side.
Pre fill, never hear any knock if I fill my filter. My oils never that dirty and my NEW oil better not be dirty so ill save the knock vs some "dirty" oil getting out through the engine again. For a gas vehicle I don't fill my fuel filter, just cycle the key a few times and she's good.
I have a 2016 Nissan Titan Xd diesel with a 5.0 V8 Cummins. Owners manual states to pre fill the oil filter but not the fuel filters. I like your logic on filling the oil filter but will follow Nissan's instructions on the fuel filters.
+Bill Helmick It is never a bad idea to go with the manufacturer recommendation. Most vehicles seem to be going to a cartridge style filter, is this one still a spin on?
Adept Ape the fuel separator and the fuel filter or both cartridge style. All of the filters are rebadged fleetguard filters outside packages have the Nissan part number the filters have the fleet guard part number and name. Both are accessed by a cheap plastic cap using a 1 and 1/8 socket. You need to be very careful when removing or you could very easily round the corners of the caps
Mustang Guru that’s fine with old gas engines that have a distributor driven oil pump. Those engines are called antiques. This video was about modern diesel engines. You’re not turning the oil pump over and then installing the distributor on these engines.
Honestly you ask 10 different mechanics and each one will say their way is the only correct way, and all other ways are gonna blow your engine up. I don’t think either way is better than the other, and variations in manufacturing of the internals will make a way bigger difference in longevity than whether or not someone pre-fills filters.
wow i am amazed as to how quick you answered it helps so much because i am doing this job for a friend who just bought this bus and his cash flow isn;t too great thank you again and keep up the great work God bless you and family and buddy(got 11 dogs myself in the farm!!!!)
+adve58 You are welcome, I try to reply when I get the messages, but sometimes can't right away. Hope the info helps, Let me know if you have other questions. I only have 3 dogs, you have me beat.
The way I interpret this is bulk oil is already contaminated in that case I would not prefill the oil filters if the oil is new and clean to begin with I would pre fill the oil filter so far for the fuel filter diesel I never did that my guess would be put them on dry and unloosen the injector nuts and prime the air out of the system? I know on airline passenger jet liners my understanding they never change hydraulic fluid because the possibility of contamination they always add to it very good topic allot of half ass A&P mechanics out their also its scary (I favor not to prelude the filters) for contamination reasons I always prelude a engine that is new diesel I never worked with
How long will it take for an empty oil filter and the oil to get back into it and drive the air out of the oil system and have the oil back where it all needs to be. That's why I will fill the oil filter with oil before I install the filter
always prefill a oil filter or a least get all media wet . dry surge high volume of fluid hitting the filter can blow it out . I have seen only a few times though so I always prefill
Detroit 60 series caterpillar C15 C11and one international . The 60 series had 400000 on it . Just had an oil change not by me in a wrecker left out and made it 2 miles and spun the bottom end . Started checking and a old timer said check the filter . Cut it apart and there it was . Ask the guy who did the service and no he didn't prefill . It blew a hole out . Found the filter media in the oil ports . Which lead to me doing a fast 2 day rebuild that sucked to got about 4 hours sleep on that one . All over not prefilling an oil filter . That's why I do it and I always do it on fuel regardless of what they say
O and one dirtymax it was a cheap filter but the guy didn't prefill and same thing that one cost the guy 13000 whole new motor . Its sad over an oil filter it was 20 degrees out side to . So that didn't help either
+Jessi Sumner What brand filters were these? I'm just surprised because I've never seen this or heard of it happening before, and you've seen a few of them. If it was somewhat common I'm surprised Cat recommends not prefilling them.
Love these videos man, theres nothing but good information coming out of your mouth. Ive been pre filling fuel filters from a diesel jug for years and it never even crossed my mind that I was introducing contaminates to the system. Thanks.
You're worried about clean oil, on the inside of a new CLEAN filter? When you pour it in and wait the oil migrates to the correct side of the filter. Pour, wait, pour, wait until its totally full.
Well, I think he is saying there could be something in the bottle that shouldn't be there. And more to the second point, if there _is_ something that gets on the "clean" side, sure the oil will migrate over to the "dirty" side through the filter, but, obviously, any dirt wouldn't.
Okay, you have a primer pump on the fuel filter adapter, at least on every diesel engine I've ever seen. They may or not work well but that's another issue. So you can fill the fuel filter, the right way, and protect your injectors. You can't prime the oil filter, unless there is a way to keep the engine from getting fuel when cranking. I do this trick when doing a service on a gasoline engine, especially if it has a turbo or two. Just hold the throttle to the floor while cranking the engine for about 20 seconds or until the oil light goes out (on some cars) or the oil gauge shows pressure. The problem is you need to get to know the car, some lights won't go out while cranking and some gauges won't register until you let off the starter so you can see it raise up a little when you stop cranking. You don't want to crank it for more than about 15-20 sec. at a time to keep from possibly damaging the starter. Anyway this little trick works on most modern fuel injected gasoline/alcohol vehicles so it may work on newer diesels also. I can't say for sure. Just be ready to shut the key off if the engine suddenly starts at full throttle, some cars may have fuel in the intake or the fuel injection still fires the injectors. The way it works is most fuel injection is programmed with a "clear flood" mode, which it goes into when you press the gas pedal to the floor when cranking. It limits the fuel injectors to about 20% to clear a flood (even though fuel injection should never flood the engine with fuel). This is also a good quick test of the battery cranking capacity.
Well I know for a fact Cat started putting the full filters upside down so you couldn't put fuel in the cuz pple getting dirt in them and fuckin up injector's cuz with the new machines carry such high full rail pressure even a speck of dirt can ruin them and that is why they put a electric fuel pump on them or a hand pump so use it
I don't know about changing oil and oil filter on your big CAT engine using bulk (not so perfectly clean oil) but for home automobile, I have some thoughts. It depends on how your oil filter is mounted, horizontal or vertical. Obviously, you can't pre-fill a horizontally mounted filter. My 2003 Ford Excursion has a vertically mounted filter and I always pre-fill the filter. Another point I want to make is with the filter already pre-filled and when you start the engine after the oil change the oil pump will get the oil much quicker and the time it takes to prime the oil pump is greatly reduced and also new oil will circulate the almost dry engine faster thus reducing any unnecessary dry start engine wear. Since for home DIY oil change project, we are buying brand new bottled oil either in 1- quart size or 5-quart size and there is no contamination so pre-filling the oil filter from the center or side holes makes no difference. Pre-filling the oil filter (whenever possible) does an engine good.
To the people who dont pre fill oil filters because "the oil is dirty because of mass production" or whatever, what exactly do you do with this "dirty" oil right before you pour it into your crankcase? I highly doubt you guys run it through some kind of filtration system before you put it in your engine.
Gilbert Rentas Such a good point. They are over thinking it with no pre fill approach yet dumping oil directly into the crankcase like everyone else. Ha!
oil from the crankcase is pumped directly through the filter, before it passes on through any of the oil galleries. The concern would be if the filter is prefilled through the center hole, where the unfiltered oil will be pumped into the galleries. I, Myself, don't worry about the contamination, if I'm pouring brand new oil from a brand new bottle, into a brand new filter. I would rather have the immediate oil pressure, to reduce 'scuff' on the initial restart after the oil/filter change.
My Cummins L9 with Fleetgaurd filters call for pre-filling the oil filter (even the can icons) and fuel filters (clean side on secondary filter - even comes with disposable cover /plug to assist your aim). My engine is RED, my filters are WHITE and I run the recommended Valvoline BLUE .
I work on construction/mining equipment from many different manufacturers. These manufacturers use many different brands of diesel engines. Cat, Cummins, Isuzu, Mitsubishi, Hino, Scania, Liebherr, and more. I can tell you from experience that NONE of these manufacturers allow for pre-filling of any filters. The fuel and oil you buy is NOT clean enough to meet their specifications until it is filtered. If you pour "new" oil or fuel into the clean side of a filter, you have just contaminated that filter. These manufacturers spend hundreds of millions of dollars on R&D. I don't care if your dad and grand-dad taught you to fill your filters, it is an incorrect procedure.
According to Cummins quickserve to properly install a new oil filter you are supposed to fill with clean 15w-40. Looked up an ISX 15 871 and an ISB 6.7 CM2150 BOTH manufacturer manuals instructs you to pre fill the oil filter.
I always prefill both fuel and oil. The big thing with the oil filter is where it is in the sequence. If the oil goes directly from the pump to the filter then it is important to prefill your filter. But if it is the last thing to get oil then it isn't necessary to prefill.
The pump picks the oil up directly from the oil pan (sump), then, to the oil filter. After the oil filter, it goes into the oil gallery, where some goes to the camshaft bearings, lifter guides, crankshaft main and rod throw bearings, and finally, on to the piston wristpins and cylinder walls. The engine is NOT lubricating, until the filter is primed, and the pressure can build up. The pump is always a little bit big, so what oil can't flow through the tight clearances flows through a spring loaded by-pass valve, and simply dumps back into the pan. That spring loaded valve is what determines the oil pressure.
For years I've been pre-filling my oil filters so there isn't that sickening rattle the first time the engine is fired up after an oil change. These have all been gasoline engines. I let someone else work on the diesels because they're a different animal. I believe doing this helps the longevity of the engine whatever the fuel.
If you're starting out with a new filter and new oil, I don't see that it makes a bit of difference if you get oil in both sides. The oil won't get dirty and need filtering until it actually goes through the engine. The old filter you removed certainly had oil in both sides. Total non-issue. I doubt it makes a bit of difference either way.
I know on one of my old cars i have if i dont pre-fill the oil filter the rods knock when it starts after an oil change. I changed the rod bearings one time on an old ford tempo that did that. Pulled the pan and did it right in the car. Ford used rtv only for a gasket lol. Ah the good old days
If one is worried about contamination on "new" oil and fuel, why not pre-filter that fluid thru an OEM filter on a rig? you know have a small pump push the fluid thru a filter which is used only to pre-fill new filters being fitted to an engine and only right at the very moment they are to be installed. Then you get the best of both worlds, nice full filters, filled with properly filtered and clean fluid. One "Pre-fill" filter would last probably hundreds of engine filter services before it had to be replaced itself.
By simply mounting the oil jug up high, you can simply gravity feed the oil through the filter, eliminating the need for a pump. pouring it slowly will insure that all the air is purged out of the filter media, giving the filter a better prefill.
I've always prefilled my oil filters. always have and always will. for the past 30 years and oh pobably million miles or so. Blackstone Labs gives me great news every time I send my 100k mile sample off. lower than average wear.
Smart guy looks at the oil passage diagram for his engine. The bottom of the engine gets oil last after it has passed through the filter so waiting for the filter to fill then push it around takes awhile. In my experience, pre-filling the filter keeps the valves and bottom from rattling when you start it up which I think is a bigger problem than the possibility of soft dirt. If you do your pre-fill properly, cleanliness is next to godliness. Sparkly clean funnel, clean work space, clean bottle top. Fill through the center and let it sit until the oil migrates to the other side too. Put some more in, let it sit. Personally the guaranteed rattle of the bottom of the motor without oil for a few seconds is one hell of a lot worse than the small possibility of soft dirt getting into the bearing surfaces. If some dirt gets in the system, there is a chance that it will get filtered out next pass through after drain-back from the top (instead of heading to the mains and rods). Pre-fill the fuel filter? No experience.
According to my TDI I always prefill the diesel filter but not the oil filter. Since the oilfilter gets wet and 'air/bubble-less within seconds anyway. But if the diesel filter isn't prefilled properly you'll get those nasty bubbles for a long time. Like my neighbours car has this problem and during drive it sometimes works out like limb mode. Therefore on VAG (VW, Audi, Scoda...) diesel engines I always prefill the diesel filters. And yes I fully Agree on Adept Ape for 'considering the filter direction' otherwise it might be dumb as nuts xD although it is actually that hard to find out how they work. :D
Some car engines that have a oil pump that's hard to prime. If you do not fill the oil filter then there is effectively a gap of air that is easily compressed meaning the pump will prime quicker. As for diesel injectors I think there is always enough diesel left in the rail to lubricate the injectors before the engine runs on all cylinders.
1. No gas engine automotive oil filters contain a warning not to pre fill. 2. You are no more likely to get debris in your oil by pouring down the center hole in the filter than you are by pouring the oil in the oil fill opening in the valve cover. 3. Pre-filling an oil filter is called "good engineering practice." Maybe not important in the grand scheme of things, but reducing episodic reduced oil pressure over the life of an engine will never be a bad thing.
while i agree with filling filters, on your number 2 line you seem to be missing the point. if you get dirt in thru the valve cover, the dirt passes through the filter and gets caught in the media, preventing it reaching the bearings in the engine. If that dirt gets into the center of the filter, it gets pushed right into the oiling system and lands itself into a bearing. I simply fill the filter from a clean brand new bottle of oil and take extra care not to get any dirt into it. Problem solved.
I do the same thing you do. And I know how the oil passages are plumbed. My point is about being careful. I don't want dirt passing over the valve train on it's way to the sump any more then I want it in the pressurized side. If you are letting any dirt/debris in anywhere, then you are doing it wrong.
I think you still missed the point. One of the points was that the new oil has debris in it. If you pour it into the center hole of the filter then you just contaminated your "clean" oil. The center port on the filter is the outflow to the engine. If you pour oil from a bottle in there then the debris in the bottom of the bottle gets in your engine. For most V8 engines there is no issue at the valve cover. The pressurized oil would just wash it away to the pan where it would get pumped straight to the filter. Assuming the drainback doesn't pass over the cam of course. Also Pre-filling isn't a bad thing if done right. This was the other point of the video. If you prefill don't do it by pouring it in the center hole of the filter. Reduced oil pressure does not hurt anything. As long as there is a film of oil and a supply the engine will be fine. Especially considering the almost non existent load of cranking. Just because the engine sat all night doesn't mean it doesn't have oil in the bearings. That oil is even more likely to still be there after the oil change and subsequent empty filter startup. Cheers m8
I guess what your saying is don't prefill your oil filter with comtaminated oil? I certainly can understand that However I will contiune prefilling my trucks and equipment Nonetheless when i know I'm using quality grade clean engine oil and not using a dirty container
Take the used oil filter at a normal change interval straight from the engine and carefully extract an oil sample from the center with a turkey baster. This is the filtered oil that was continuously running for numerous hours in the engine up to the point when the filter was removed. Have that sample analyzed. Now pour clean oil straight from the container into a sample jar, this is the oil that will run thru the engine for a few seconds if you pour it into the center of the filter. Have that sample analyzed as well. Then show how the unfiltered new oil for a few seconds caused the bearing damage and the high-hours filtered oil could not have possibly caused any bearing damage or clogged a piston cooling jet, even with the possibility of momentary bypass such as in extreme cold start-up. The bottom line is due care must be taken to keep contamination or debris away from the inlet of the new oil filter during handling. I could handle the filter in a careless manner with grubby hands, or possibly the filter is mounted in a difficult to access location, and get a speck of crud in the clean side of the filter that way, even if I pre-filled the filter from the outer holes, or not pre-filled at all.
Absolutely on oil filter but not fuel better to install filter and use fuel tank pump to fill installed filters that way no unfiltered fuel goes to your high pressure pump and injectors.
Nonsense ! I've been replacing oil filters for 60 years and never had a problem with metal particles. Changing filters between oil changes once or twice is a better idea. Filters are not all that expensive.
Waaaay over thinking this, to the point where it`s almost scary. Many vehicles have the oil filter in such a position that to fit it, you have to turn it in every direction bar inside out! How would you keep oil in the damn thing. There`s really nothing in this at all, maybe all the conspiracy theories are getting to you.
Have to agree, nearly every forklift engine I've serviced has the oil filter either horizontal, upside down or angled so prefilling will only achieve a right old mess!
I agree with you but big diesels are easy to fill and a different ballgame.For instance on a Detroit they even have 2 BIG filters that take almost a gallon and most guys will fill them and on a Detroit I recommend filling them.
So, it's not ok to put new oil from a bottle or from into the clean side of the filter cause it'll go directly into engine, but it's ok to put 14 quarts or however much right into the crankcase directly from the bottle or drum? Tell me what I'm missing.
Well, when I buy (new oil ) it has already been filtered to a specific micron of filtration from the producer. I was always taught to prefill new filters to keep from starving the engine upon startup, and I will always prefill my filters. I also worked as a diesel mechanic for years. There is a more fool proof way to completely resolve this conversation and that is to prefill the filters with a funnel that has a filter screen and yes I do. Bottom line engines run on fuel and oil so let's make sure it's ready to run or it could be a big headache nobody needs.
I always pre-fill my oil filters and I have done it in the way that you show in the video, into the dirty side through the inlet holes. I have seen various engines that had oil changes where a dry oil filter was installed. I would typically hear the valve train clatter loudly for up to 10 seconds. Now, the customer not being in the shop would not know this and would be happy about having his oil changed with a new filter in place. He probably would not be happy if he heard that metal on metal clacking at the first fire-up of his engine. I can't imagine that this metal on metal contact with no protective oil film occurring every 3K to 5K miles at each oil change would prolong the life of the engine. This is opposed to when an oil filter is pre-filled and the valve train clatter is reduced to something like 1 or 2 seconds. In my own personal car, I would additionally disable the ignition and crank the engine until I would get an oil pressure reading. When I would then reenable the ignition and start the car there would be virtually no valve clatter initially.
And this is why on diesels you prefill oil filters because there is no ignition system the so you can't disable the starting of the engine because it's done by compression of the air fuel. No spark.
@@Jon-O. I'm not a diesel tech, but you can prevent a diesel engine from starting by disabling the fuel injection. Pulling the ECU fuse or jumping the starter relay to crank the engine with the key off so the ECU doesn't fire the injectors are a couple potential solutions, I'm sure there's others.
The film of oil that remains on the internal parts doesnt magically evaporate as soon as you take the filter off. If you're hearing parts rattle after an oil change, you,ve got more expensive problems than just N empty filter.
@@jmh4ggg The residual oil film left on the parts gets squeezed out from between bearing surfaces pretty quickly due to the contact pressures between moving loaded parts. If there isn't oil pressure there immediately after a start to replenish the oil that has been squeezed out then there will be nothing to fill the void between bearing surfaces and there will be metal to metal contact. Prefilling the filter reduces the time it takes for the filter canister to fill with oil, the filter medium to get saturated with oil and then for oil flow to the galleries. This is why, as Scotty correctly says, that most of the engine's wear occurs on startup, particularly a cold start. When you have an empty and dry filter you only lengthen the oil starvation time at startup, not a good thing for engine longevity.
If you're not planning on keeping the car past 80k miles then maybe it doesn't matter.
The fact this is even debated is the most amazing aspect of the prefill or not discussion. It just highlights how people can see something so simple from two completely different ways and it’s really kind of surprising. I think part of the problem is the very different perspectives between heavy equipment and commercial shop work versus the average DIYer at home with their personal vehicle. I can only speak really from the DIYer point of view, and from that perspective unless it’s a unusual situation the oil from sealed bottles is cleaner when you put it in the engine than it will ever be again. So unless you’re adding contamination or debris from your technique of adding the new oil, then that brand new oil is clean and doesn’t need to go in the outside holes of the filter. If you got contamination in the oil or if it was a very unusually bad batch of contaminated oil from the oil manufacturer, that’s a different but very rare situation. And prefilling the oil normalizes oil pressure and oiling function sooner than starting with an empty filter, particularly if the filter is vertical and can be easily and effectively prefilled. If it’s a horizontal filter, that makes prefilling less important and less of a difference. Watch the videos from “the motor oil geek”(Lake Speed’s son, can’t remember his first name). He recently did a video that proved oil pressure and lubrication system function normalized and stabilized sooner with a prefilled filter. It’s not like it makes a huge difference, but it is better to prefill the filter at least in the case of most normal passenger car engines. There may be some unusual types of engines with variations in oil flow and such that might change the outcome, but for I’d say for 95% of engines it’s better to prefill the oil filter. Not prefilling won’t result in engine failure and you’ll never know the difference, but you’ll have slightly more bearing wear with every startup after an oil change with a dry filter.
I have prefilled oil filters from the center for 25 years. Never a problem.
I know people who've smoked for 50 years and say the same. Beware of this type of argument.
I've never prefilled my oil filters for over 25 years and never a problem, but I also only change my oil every 5 to 7k miles, and typically retire my cars around 300k miles. I'm probably very lucky. LOL
you may not realise it but dirty oil can come right out of your can or barrel, we have had oil samples tested to verify that and in some cases the oil was dirtier out fresh barrel than the oil drained out of the pan at 20000 miles.
Bullshit If that's the case change only the filter then add enough new oil to replace what was lost in the filter
bob cat well one might think that is logical but the contamination from running in an engine is different than that of what the oil comes with new, which some of that contamination is not removed by the filter. Also, the heating and cooling process along with aeration that the oil goes through while in an engine causes the oil to break down and not provide the same level of lubrication, protection and cooling as it was new
i have a diesel engine repair/rebuild shop. people have kept my doors open for 40 years by filling filters. especially fuel filters. a contaminated common rail fuel system can exceed $10,000.00 in repairs because someone filled a fuel filter from a fuel can. happens all the time. new oil isn't as clean as you think. empty a gallon into a white container and come back 24 hours later and you will see the contaminates. keep up the good work!
When I rebuilt my old Ford, I spun the oil pump with a drill to prime the entire system before installing the distributor and cranking the engine. No dry start here.
Standard procedure.
Ferd took er jerbs
Not a bad idea, but not necessary. If you rebuild your engine right, then there should be some sort of assembly lube on every bearing. journal, etc where oil is needed. That lube is more than enough lubrication to turn your engine over a few times and at that point you should have good oil pressure and oil at all exits in the system, otherwise you have bigger problems. That lube is oil soluble so it will stay on those surfaces until there is oil there to replace it.
Krankie V yep on a rebuild id do a ingnition off engine crank till the light goes out a couple of times
@@awashbowler Disagree, pre-oiling is always better. If it wasn't, why are some of the most expensive engines always fitted with a pre-oiler (RR Merlin, Allison V-1710, etc).
1.1 million on my D13 Volvo and when I do my own PM I always prefill my filters.
That's because your smart
And my uncle's smoked since he was 10 and he's 70 now. Still doesn't make smoking good.
@@aliabdallah102 proves it's not instant death for all.
Always prefill the filter. I've always done it...the odds of getting contaminated new oil and it causing damage is FAR LESS likely than damaging your engine by dry cranking your engine. Even a fool can tell you that a couple seconds of no oil pressure can cause severe bearing / Crankshaft damage. This guy shouldn't be making videos because he's going to ruin a lot of your engine's by giving you bad advice.
@@mikefrederick4096 I think he and the engineers who design these engines know a bit more than you do buddy
Been filling filters and building engines for 40 years. Simply poured oil in the large center hole of the filter every time; I've not yet seen oil contaminants from new oil containers. I don't know about bulk oil but there's no way anything but pristine oil is coming out of a new, sealed oil container. Not sure what the fuss about on this vid.
the contaminates in the oil are smaller than your eye can see, however when your engine is moving at a thousand rpm or more it makes a big difference
@@aidanmorgan6291 if they're so small you can't see them do tell what micron size dose that make them?
Yeah I agree that it's clean oil coming out of a sealed container. But on the off chance that there were contaminants in the oil from the factory I'd rather fill from the outside.
How would one go about getting the uncontaminated oil out of the container without contaminating it assuming it really is uncontaminated? I mean you have to break that seal with something and I am willing to bet it is something contaminated.
Agreed. If you prefill your oil filter, fill it from a quart bottle, it's much cleaner than the oil in a bulk container. Bulk container oil can then be used to fill the crank case, since any contamination will be filtered out by the new filter, before being pumped into the oil galleries.
On my 74 Ford E-300 van with a 302 C.I. gas engine, I pre filled the oil filter before install. The oil pump was spun with a drill before the first start, but I just got in the habit of filling the new filter while draining the motor and the engine was clean as a pin at teardown after 20,000 hard miles and oil changes at 5,000 mile intervals. The engine had a part failure not due to any problem with lubrication. After fixing the problem the engine has run perfectly for another 175,000 miles with no problems. I have and will always fill the filter during every change.
I work with marine diesel CAT C18’s and I’ve always pre-filled fuel filters. This is mainly due to how much of a nightmare it is to operate the manual fuel priming pump due to its location (under the engine room walkway). Not pre-filling turns the job into a complete nightmare.
@@wilburshuman that’s the mind set of a shit mechanic. Nice work over those 30 years I’m sure those companies paychecks cashed no problem but because you have no pride, no coveralls, or no balls your the type that will cut corners and half ass your job so the next guy in line(probably an actual mechanic) will have to cover for your lack of professionalism and due diligence.
@@wilburshuman I don’t have to prove anything you already admitted to being a lazy mechanic.
@@HaxtunDBagCoach you proved you petty and vindictive lol 💩
Agree some priming pums either very slow or don't work
Once I didn't fill my oil filter. 87 Chevy small block. Took a bit for oil pressure to come up, and the engine didn't sound happy. Have always filled filters. 30 years so far no bad engine. Had to edit. The oil is under pressure it is keeping metal from metal. The little bit of oil left behind isn't lubricating much at all. Rotatating parts will still touch.
I always prefilled both oil and fuel filters (yes, through the center hole!). I'm more concerned about lubing up the O-ring more than anything. Installing dry O-rings are a no no in my book. The warning on the filters are for liability issues. Some idiot is bound to get something nasty in the filter if you give them the OK to prefill. JMO!
same here :)
i allways prefill my filter, never had a problem. in fact the people that don't prefill their filters, on start up you can hear a bunch of rattling never sounds good. My advise prefill your oil filters. Use clean oil and make sure the seal is completely removed before pouring.
+Steven Harden As the video explains, pre fill them from the dirty side and that will ensure the oil is filtered completely and the filter is primed.
Adept Ape you can pour it in the middle. if you're using new oil it doesn't make a damn.
Steven Harden o
@@stevenharden803 New oil doesn't mean it's clean oil. More often than not, oil from a brand new container does not meet the cleanliness standards of most OEM's
@makemoneymowinglawns.com With all do respect, the machines from the last 54 years required very little in terms of contamination control as compared to the machines of today.
If I fill a NEW filter with NEW oil where is the contaminates coming from? I fill my oil filters and hear 1 second of knocking , I dont fill my filter it can last 5 or 6 seconds longer , I think I will stick with my common sense , it has served me well for decades.
New oil is not always as clean as you may think. If you get bulk delivery of your oil watch out.
Dust particles in the air. Small debris falling in the out hole.
Aren't dust particles from the air going to fall into the hole weather you pour oil in it or not?
I prefill for the same reason... 1 second of knocking , I dont fill my filter it can last 5 or 6 seconds longer. Never a problem, even after 120K miles.
I'm with'ya Kemosabe
Instead of pre-filling my oil filter, I just soak the filter media in oil for a few. I have a Subaru with a top mount oil filter. Physically cannot pre-fill it. But, I understand how liquid filtration works. Liquid filters work best when the filter media is pre-soaked with the filtered substance or its solvent. So, I fill the filter with clean oil, swish it around some, then put the filter upside down in the funnel and let the excess drain into the engine. This way on my first start, the filter medium is pre-soaked and it will filter better.
Never thought of that, i have a Jetta Diesel with the filter inserts, at least with the fuel filter, the dome is still mostly full of fuel.
That's why most diesel engines have hand prime pumps, some of the equipment I worked on had electric pumps to prime the fuel system. Now that I work for a International dealership I have found some with electric pumps and some with hand prime pumps. The power stroke engines or dt444 will not bleed the air out of the system, so after you install the filter but before you put the cover back on you have to cycle the key to fill the housing, this also holds true for the maxxforce 7 .
When I worked at the landfill on mostly CAT equipment, CAT told us not to fill either oil or fuel filters; Hand prime only via electric pump or hand prime pump. As for the oil they say they have enough oil to idle while the oil pump picks up prime. When I do a in frame or out of frame overhaul I prefer to use STP oil treatment for pre-lube as it tends to stay put for first start. The D-8 we had was equipped with a pre-lube system, you could turn the key all you wanted and the engine would not crank until the oil pressure came up.
I feel the best thing anyone can do for a engine is to give it a little warm up time every time it is started. This gives the oil time to get worked through the engine before it is put under load. If a few minutes is going to make you late, your already late.
mrgearheadfromhell the big Cat engines like the 3512 and 3516. Have hand priming pumps, but they are extremely difficult to prime once air gets into the system. The best way I found is to pump rapidly while cranking the engine and keep pumping even after one or two cylinders fire. Not easy. One thing I liked about the old Detroit Diesels is they never get air bound. The EMD engines are the same design, never an air problem.
I like fuel systems that include some type of priming device to pre-fill the fuel filters. If you have a priming pump before your fuel pump you can use that too. I have also used a priming bulb from a boat plumbed into the system to pre fill the fuel filters because I don't want to contaminate my fuel system, particularly on these new high pressure fuel systems.
The John Deere high pressure common rail fuel filters come with a plastic funnel that Blocks the center of filter and diverts fuel to small side hoes for filling. I alway fill my oil filters when applicable with only the cleanest oil. From a non contaminated source
so yes the pump is bad but we are doing a low budget fix(all ready the HUEI pump rebuild went for $695!) so i went and got a low pressure electric fuel pump and got it hooked in the outlet from the tank and before we go and spend another $200 for a used pump on ebay we went that way, tomorrow i will know if it works(started pouring and never ended perks of living on a tropical island) so once again i thank you for the help and tips have a great weekend and keep up the good work and advice for people like me who don't know a lot about diesel and caterpillars in particular.
+adve58 This is turning into quite the saga, let me know if the little electric fuel pump helps. Maybe once its fully primed it'll work again.
+adve58 This is turning into quite the saga, maybe it'll work once you get it primed though.
So my Doctor told me when it comes to getting injections through my IV it didn’t matter if there was a big air bubble in the syringe as my heart would cough out all that air since there’s always some residual blood in there anyway...
you were right on. Customer took to caterpillar and it took them 20 minutes to correct problem. thanks again!
I pre fill all oil filters, whether they go on my bike, lawn mower, or any of my cars. If you pre fill a filter in the center hole, it will still fill the entire filter. It might take a bit to do it, but it will have oil in it.
As for a fuel filter, I never fill them unless it's on a diesel engine that way it won't get air in the system.
I have pre filled oil filters for over 20 years, and have never had any issues.
RakinBill it's not about filling the entire filter, it's about the fact that you want to pour the oil into the inlet side so it has to pass through the filter media before going through the engine. even new oil can have a bit of shit in it
How can new oil have crap in it? Especially if it's from a sealed bottle?
I take extra care and caution when I fill filters, and yes I know it's going in the outlet side of the filter. The center threaded hole is the outlet into the motor, and the outer portion that has the reverse flow seal is the inlet side, but I have never had any issues with doing it that way.
I find if I prefill the filters, it builds up oil pressure faster after a startup from an oil change. It holds true, especially on older cars with more miles on the engine.
Could be debris left from manufacturing process, not likely, but it happens.
@@allanmccullough8550 : just dont pour the dregs of the bottle in .
@@InTheDogHouse3DPrinting : just dont pour the dregs out of the bottle in the filter .
Nice to see a video by someone who knows what they are talking about. On one of my loaders owners manual, it stated the engine warranty was void if the engine oil filter was not filled at the oil change.
+John B I would definitely fill them in that case then, just try to fill from the dirty side of the filter.
In the case of oil: if the new oil I'm putting is in some way contaminated... how is that not an issue when pouring it directly into the engine via the filler cap?
From the oil pan it’s pumped through the filter then goes to engine. If you fill the clean side of filter it goes straight to engine without going through filter.
@@thenomad7120 But you don't pour oil straight into the oil pan. To _get_ to the oil pan it has to go through the engine first. So any "contamination" is getting one pass through the engine either way.
@@KingAdrock420 when you add oil it goes to your oil pan through the timing case...not through the engine.
Great point
I completely agree with what you said. I have three International IDI's in my Ford trucks. I always prefill their fuel filters, otherwise I'd be sitting there cranking forever to purge the air with their mechanical lift pumps...
+Clint Osowski Not pre filling the fuel filter can be a real pain in the butt.
Yeah, and a battery killer...
Lot's of newer engines are designed with the oil filter upside down. This prevents you from pre-filling you filter. Do you think the manufacturers are trying to tell us something?
+Harvey Smith They do that for a reason, on some of Caterpillars older large 3500 series engines they had sideways canister filters as well, pretty hard to prefill those as well, but never seemed to cause problem. Those canister tanks probably helps 3 gallons of oil too so it took a little while to fill from the pump.
you can still put some.oil in there, paper absorbs it
Harvey Smith yes, they're trying to tell us they want the engine to wear out quicker
FACEPALM! Every day you start your engine on your car it will run for quite a time without oil presure, do u realy think that prefill your filter every 20000 miles give you an advantage on wear??
Not prefill your filter is MUCH better than the risk of and idiot dose it terrible wrong!
Most contaminations dose not matter, butt one particle of some hard stuff fuc.. up your berring quite easy!
john jay Jea sure most modern cars got valves in the oil system to shorten the time for oilpresure to build up, but the fact that your control lamp go out doesn't mean there is instanty oil flow on your main berings they always got some contact at the start. but that's nothing to worry about, also if u don't pre-filled your filter ;)
my Mercedes m102 engine first generation doesn't have a valve for holding back the oil, at every start you can hear from the noise change when the oil comes, after 320000km I restored the engine, and the Bering's got just light touches on them.
and also oil change after 6000km, wt.... merica?
Hauled bulk oil for over twenty years! Best quality control measures i have seen are Chevron, Mobil-1, Valvoline. Any one of these manufacturers i would have no issue pre filling an oil filter. P.S. my 03 Tahoe has 300,000 miles on original engine, pre filled filter ever time using mobil-1 synthetic! Good video though i have seen some crap over the years as well! Thanks!
The comments just show how people do not understand fluid contamination in bulk oil and the manufacturing process. Often times, the oil is dirty before it gets poured in the engine and then the bypass filter cleans it up. If you don't believe me, order a _Particle Count_ on any virgin oil sample. CAT fuel filters are like 2 microns, way smaller than dust.
+heavymechanic2 Cat seems to think it's a big enough problem that they consider it better to run it without oil for a few seconds than with the unfiltered oil.
Almost all engines have a oil bypass built into them. Only about 10% of the oil gets filtered until engine is warm. Even then best case scenario 80% of the oil gets filtered after engine reaches operating temp. Not filling your filter because of contamination is just STUPID
He is definitely splitting hairs to worry bout such things!low oil pressure is much larger problem,even for three seconds.
PQIA does random oil testing and has confirmed some oil in the bottles is too dirty to pour in your engine, its the whole point of this video. You guys are confusing *Boundary Lubrication* with *Hydrodynamic Lubrication* Anytime the lube or fuel system is opened, its subject to contamination.
heavymechanic2 Wow you know some fancy terms. How does that change the fact that 90% of that new oil won't be filtered on startup. New or old dirty oil is always more preferable to no oil.
On the fuel filters for a Deere 8.1 engine, they come with a dandy little funnel that screws into the center hole, and forces incoming fuel to fill the filter from the outside in, as it should be done. As far as pre filling oil filters goes, the only one that I ever ran across that pre filling was mandatory was the turbo filter on an EMD turbo engine, and their manual said nothing about the "right way", so the vast majority of those were filled via the center hole straight from the boat's bulk oil tank. :-/ Good tip on the dust cap, I used to teach my guys that trick. Another thing that we'd do for filling those turbo filters was to raid the rag barrel, set the filter in a five gallon bucket like you do there, and then pack rags around the filter so it would stay upright. Good video, loads of good information. Thanks!
What is the difference? New oil filter, filled with new oil, new fuel filter with new fuel where do you buy your oil the dump?
Fuel in your tank is run through the filter. I prefill my oil filters, not fuel filters though. I push the manual primer on the lift pump to fill it
Out cat loaders have these awesome fuel primer switches. All you do is screw on the new, empty, filters and then flip a switch and an electric motor pumps fuel from the tank into the filters. Once you hear the air bubbles stop in the return to the tank, it's prefilled/primed.
always have filled them up in the center. as long as its new oil and new fuel. worst thing you can do is not prefill a filter especially on a big engine that has several oil filters and sometimes a gallon or 2 of oil can cause unnecessary and premature engine wear. but hey what do i know
+hayden ingram Lots of people fill them like that, I do on a rebuild, but I was just giving the information from the Caterpillar guidelines.
I agree with you man 100% you should always prefill
yeah at cat they tell us dont fill them which i dont listen to that. my boss didnt like what i said.lol
teller of truth I look every time and don't see anything ever.
lol i look every time. i dont understand why you are so hostile haha
i dont quite understand how pre filling into the clean side with fresh oil could possibly hurt anything worse than filling it from the dirty side.
+Painting Place ah, makes sense I guess. but if there is oil already in there, clean side or not, the delay would be only like a second since the engine builds oil pressure right from cranking
my question is if you're using new clean oil how the hell you getting dirt in there?
+dosmastrify lol really. like fresh oil is as clean as can be. and a new filter means no dirt too
You have aerosols or you can just be plain unlucky and something from the bottle falls down into the drain. It's better to be safe, even if you can't understand why you do it
+Derhder again a new jug of perfectly clean oil isn't going to to that. if you're clumsy you might drop something in there I guess, but that would be your own fault
I always fill CAT fuel filters cuz the priming plunger is usually in a shitty spot...
I fill every one I don't care what he says wtf who is gonna put known contaminants in
You always fill a fuel filter no matter the engine.
Great topic. I do several services a week, I've always pre filled the fuel filters, never pre filled the oil filter, can't imagine trying to screw on that big C15 filter full of oil.
It is a total pain I assure you, plus you probably know that it is hard to get the oil filter aligned and threaded sometimes. Thanks for the comment.
This whole discussion should not include diesel owners/techs that have/service engines smaller than 11liters. When you work on big engines different rules apply. The sheer weight of the big block oil filer filled with oil makes it almost impossible to screw it on by hand. On ISX15 for example the access to the filter is very limited and you can try all you want to screw it on with oil in it, but if you strip those threads than you are in real s**t! Now, it will cost thousands in labor and down time to fix it. It is just safer and more practical not to put oil in. You can add some if you really want, but it's basically pointless. Yes, Cummins wants them prefilled but....
So long as your not sloppy and prefill your oil filters (doesn't matter which side) with new oil using a clean funnel you won't have any issues. As for fuel filters, all the CATs I work on have hand operated priming pumps on the secondary filters. On the bigger CATS this is essential as the filters are reasonably large and will push the internal volume of air through the fuel system damaging pumps, injectors ect.
I run different viscosities than recommended, I run diesel oil in my gas engines, I run 250-300 hour intervals and if I can fill a vertical filter before I put it on I will. Any hydraulic systems worst enemy is air on start up. I saw a guy refuse to fill an N14 oil filter before he started the engine because he was scared to get shit in it and he spun the bushing out of the front structure enclosure when it started, bushing came right out through the Teflon seal, contaminated the gear set with chunks of bushing and caused like 3000 dollars damage. I’d never risk not having as immediate oil pressure as I can have. There’s minimal “crud” in new oil out of a clean jug. If you’re careful it’s fine and I treat everything like an operating room when it comes to precision machined parts. The flow through a fuel filter is so low that if there was a piece of sand at the bottom of the tube it wouldn’t ever get out into the fuel pump. I honestly think most of the damage in bearings comes from the perforated steel tubes. The cat filter is superior with the composite tubes.
Filder???
ElroyJosephJenkins JrTheThird I couldn't watch more then 2 minutes because it was bothering me. had to see if anyone else picked up on it lol
ElroyJosephJenkins JrTheThird HOW is this not the top comment???
Steve Nilsen you are brave sir, 1:20 and I was done. I can't stand those little speech quirks.
Lol
Lmao
Thanks for this video! I am no mechanic but do change the oil in my truck regularly. Yesterday i had the bright idea to fill my filter into the center hole. I notice too on this change the filter is leaking a bit. I will try and tighten and see it that helps but MAN I learned my lesson. Thanks for your Expert Advice.
There should be no contamination in a new filter on either side.
Ray Davis There is dust in the air. Loose hairs, etc.
Contaminant in the fuel... 4-5 microns Can hurt the system...
ice read some of the comments. I was a fleet mechanic (O T R) before you were born ! (70s-is) . The this I dealt with had 2 oil filters and each one heald 1 gal. of oil. Pre filling was mandatory ! In the time it took those filters to fill, you could destroy an engine ! I still work on cars and light trucks and I ALWAYS pre fill !
I fill my oil filter with clean oil to save running dry while bearings clank and knock. Minimal risk of contamination outweighed by immediate lubrication in my opinion
On a diesel filter which is much more sensitive to any fine contamination, you fit it dry and use the primer pump to only supply clean filterered fuel to the engine which you cant do if you fill the filters.
Wow what a rebel you are. I love it. Lots of common sense I bet many are lacking in the comments below. I'll read them later.
Yeah many times I have looked in the new oil bottle and saw debris and junk in the bottom. Not that hard to build a device to prefill filters though. I am surprised more people don't do it.
Lots of people don't understand the function of the oil film and the oil film strength. A "no oil pressure" situation is not an immediate death threat for an engine. As long as the oil film is intact the surface will be fine. Oil supply is the most important thing except where piston coolers need the pressure to squirt up to the pistons.
I have been running a GM 6.5L diesel that has a no oil pressure condition when it is hot. I have 60 thousand miles on that engine. It has been that way since "new". I have taken a few precautions. I don't like it but haven't had the time or money till recently to fix it. 180 degree thermostat. A manually switched external additional oil pump feeding cooled oil right before the turbo. etc. Examined the bearings before a long trip and they were in good shape.
+consaka1 I appreciate the kind words. A lot of people disagree with this video, but I'm just telling them what the manufacturer recommends for their engines. The manufacturer designed the engine and I'm pretty sure they would know best for their engine.
You are welcome of course. I consider it common sense they would want the oil filtered first because it should help their engines last longer.
Yes , you are exactly correct . However I have been filling filters from the center forever but after seeing this and knowing the risk I have imposed on my engines doing field maintenance etc. Maybe we could build a filter primer for fuel and oil .
Thank you for this video .
Cat has primers for fuel on their loaders. You just screw on the new filters and flip a switch and it primes the whole fuel system.
Got a Cummins m11 in a boom truck. New in 98, oil and fuel filters always prefilled. Never been rebuilt, even after a runaway turbo about 5 years ago. As long as you’re careful and don’t have fuel cans with dirt in them from lazy people leaving caps off
on my classic car i just dont pull the choke until the oil light goes off on my newer (but high proformace) car i unplug the plugs crank untill the oil light goes out then plug them in again before starting
Yeah , same here... just let it crank but not start, disable ignition or just let the diesel pump in shut off position..disconnect some sensor that is vital for starting. whatever, the older the car is the easier is to fool it. Newer cars complain too much :-)
I usually pre-fill the water separator and the fuel filter of my crane's C15 engine. thanks to your video, now i know i've been filling them the wrong way (through the center). thumbs up for you.
+Joshua Thirumani Glad I could convince you to do it the proper way, its a little harder but is better protection for your engine.
I drive international isx cummins i fill my fuel filters with fuel from a 8gallon container, and oil filter with oil. I had no problems for years.
You are 100%correct
This all makes sense. The only time iv ever prefilled a oil filter is when it's verticle. Mine on my LBZ Duramax is horizontal so I don't prefill the filter. The fuel filter IV never prefilled due to you manually priming the filter plus I have a lift pump that circulates my fuel. But this was good info thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge.
im at 500,000 miles and i always prefill my oil filter no problems yet
+VK70001.P The point of this video wasn't too discourage prefilling, just if you are going to do it, fill it from the dirty side. Just relaying the information from Caterpillar too. Thanks for commenting.
VK70001.P which German tank is the vk 70001p?
huehuehue k non i did not proof check when i made the name it was ment to be 7001p
Ahh but how do you know? Do you build your own engines? How would you know if you had scratches on bearings as a direct result of the common new but dirty oil? Look in the bottom of any new oil jug and you can see debris.
consaka1 i do look at the bottom of every oil jug befor it goes in my truck
and i know my bearings are fine because i have good oil pressure when your bearings get scratched or gouges they let oil passed then faster and oil pressure will drop
also yea i do a compression test and borescope my cylinders every time change my spark plugs and wires
and idk what no name dollar store oil you're buying but if it has debris in it don't buy it
i use motorcraft 10-40 or valvoline 10-40
and you ask how do i know i have no problems? BECAUSE THE TRUCK STILL RUNS LIKE NEW jack ass
I have a series 60 we pre-filled since new. at 1,000,000 miles. The blowby suction tests showed no loss in compression and the oil samples were always in the green. I pre-fill because I know how much oil each truck uses exactly when I pre-fill. When I am done pumping oil, the level will be at the line on the stick even after warming up. CAT is crazy on fuel filters, it's not just difficult to prime, its damn near impossible without pre-filling.
if you fill the filter from the center and wait a min. the oil will soak through the filter to both sides if your worried about dirt. then don't get your oil out of the waste tank!!!!!! nothing to worrie about if the oil comes out a a new container of oil.
Anthony Harvey Dirt is in many forms. Dust. Hair. Grease. Hands not 100% clean. Dirt under nails.
Forever Computing-and your point is?seriously that same dirt can fall in there just from opening the filter.
I suggest you take a bath before you open your oil can then Forever you must be a filthy mess lol
Anthony Harvey , yah some were saying that new oil is dirtier than before it goes through your filter what the **** ahhhhh NO I think the oil manufactures KNOW how to manufacture oil !!!!!! You looknlong enough you see it all I guess .
not all new oil is clean we have done oil samples to prove it
I ran a Caterpillar 85C for 6 years. I always prefilled the oil filter. Never had a problem. I never prefilled the fuel filter. Always pumped it full with the hand pump.
+Myron Parks A lot of the truck engines don't have hand priming pumps so prefilling can save you hours of time, but just do it right. The oil is fine to pre fill, just best to pre fill on the dirty side.
Pre fill, never hear any knock if I fill my filter. My oils never that dirty and my NEW oil better not be dirty so ill save the knock vs some "dirty" oil getting out through the engine again. For a gas vehicle I don't fill my fuel filter, just cycle the key a few times and she's good.
I have a 2016 Nissan Titan Xd diesel with a 5.0 V8 Cummins. Owners manual states to pre fill the oil filter but not the fuel filters. I like your logic on filling the oil filter but will follow Nissan's instructions on the fuel filters.
+Bill Helmick It is never a bad idea to go with the manufacturer recommendation. Most vehicles seem to be going to a cartridge style filter, is this one still a spin on?
Adept Ape the fuel separator and the fuel filter or both cartridge style. All of the filters are rebadged fleetguard filters outside packages have the Nissan part number the filters have the fleet guard part number and name. Both are accessed by a cheap plastic cap using a 1 and 1/8 socket. You need to be very careful when removing or you could very easily round the corners of the caps
On an engine rebuild I spin the oil pump to prime the system before startup on older style engines that are driven by the distributor.
Mustang Guru that’s fine with old gas engines that have a distributor driven oil pump. Those engines are called antiques.
This video was about modern diesel engines. You’re not turning the oil pump over and then installing the distributor on these engines.
My 3406c has a fuel filter primer pump. Works beautifully
Honestly you ask 10 different mechanics and each one will say their way is the only correct way, and all other ways are gonna blow your engine up. I don’t think either way is better than the other, and variations in manufacturing of the internals will make a way bigger difference in longevity than whether or not someone pre-fills filters.
wow i am amazed as to how quick you answered it helps so much because i am doing this job for a friend who just bought this bus and his cash flow isn;t too great thank you again and keep up the great work God bless you and family and buddy(got 11 dogs myself in the farm!!!!)
+adve58 You are welcome, I try to reply when I get the messages, but sometimes can't right away. Hope the info helps, Let me know if you have other questions. I only have 3 dogs, you have me beat.
The way I interpret this is bulk oil is already contaminated in that case I would not prefill the oil filters if the oil is new and
clean to begin with I would pre fill the oil filter so far for the fuel filter diesel I never did that my guess would be put them
on dry and unloosen the injector nuts and prime the air out of the system? I know on airline passenger
jet liners my understanding they never change hydraulic fluid because the possibility of contamination they always add to it
very good topic allot of half ass A&P mechanics out their also its scary
(I favor not to prelude the filters) for contamination reasons I always prelude a engine that is new diesel I never worked with
How long will it take for an empty oil filter and the oil to get back into it and drive the air out of the oil system and have the oil back where it all needs to be. That's why I will fill the oil filter with oil before I install the filter
always prefill a oil filter or a least get all media wet . dry surge high volume of fluid hitting the filter can blow it out . I have seen only a few times though so I always prefill
+Jessi Sumner I've never seen that, but that is an interesting point. What engines have you seen that on?
Detroit 60 series caterpillar C15 C11and one international . The 60 series had 400000 on it . Just had an oil change not by me in a wrecker left out and made it 2 miles and spun the bottom end . Started checking and a old timer said check the filter . Cut it apart and there it was . Ask the guy who did the service and no he didn't prefill . It blew a hole out . Found the filter media in the oil ports . Which lead to me doing a fast 2 day rebuild that sucked to got about 4 hours sleep on that one . All over not prefilling an oil filter . That's why I do it and I always do it on fuel regardless of what they say
O and one dirtymax it was a cheap filter but the guy didn't prefill and same thing that one cost the guy 13000 whole new motor . Its sad over an oil filter it was 20 degrees out side to . So that didn't help either
+Jessi Sumner What brand filters were these? I'm just surprised because I've never seen this or heard of it happening before, and you've seen a few of them. If it was somewhat common I'm surprised Cat recommends not prefilling them.
Wix and yes one cheap frame on the duramax now that over the course of 20 years doing it to . Love the vids by the way
Love these videos man, theres nothing but good information coming out of your mouth. Ive been pre filling fuel filters from a diesel jug for years and it never even crossed my mind that I was introducing contaminates to the system. Thanks.
Glad I could give you the information. Everyone does things differently, I just like to get the information out there for doing it the right way.
You're worried about clean oil, on the inside of a new CLEAN filter? When you pour it in and wait the oil migrates to the correct side of the filter. Pour, wait, pour, wait until its totally full.
Jimbob Exactly what i thought and do.
Well, I think he is saying there could be something in the bottle that shouldn't be there.
And more to the second point, if there _is_ something that gets on the "clean" side, sure the oil will migrate over to the "dirty" side through the filter, but, obviously, any dirt wouldn't.
Jimbob that’s what I do
Okay, you have a primer pump on the fuel filter adapter, at least on every diesel engine I've ever seen. They may or not work well but that's another issue. So you can fill the fuel filter, the right way, and protect your injectors. You can't prime the oil filter, unless there is a way to keep the engine from getting fuel when cranking. I do this trick when doing a service on a gasoline engine, especially if it has a turbo or two. Just hold the throttle to the floor while cranking the engine for about 20 seconds or until the oil light goes out (on some cars) or the oil gauge shows pressure. The problem is you need to get to know the car, some lights won't go out while cranking and some gauges won't register until you let off the starter so you can see it raise up a little when you stop cranking. You don't want to crank it for more than about 15-20 sec. at a time to keep from possibly damaging the starter. Anyway this little trick works on most modern fuel injected gasoline/alcohol vehicles so it may work on newer diesels also. I can't say for sure. Just be ready to shut the key off if the engine suddenly starts at full throttle, some cars may have fuel in the intake or the fuel injection still fires the injectors. The way it works is most fuel injection is programmed with a "clear flood" mode, which it goes into when you press the gas pedal to the floor when cranking. It limits the fuel injectors to about 20% to clear a flood (even though fuel injection should never flood the engine with fuel). This is also a good quick test of the battery cranking capacity.
Well I know for a fact Cat started putting the full filters upside down so you couldn't put fuel in the cuz pple getting dirt in them and fuckin up injector's cuz with the new machines carry such high full rail pressure even a speck of dirt can ruin them and that is why they put a electric fuel pump on them or a hand pump so use it
I don't know about changing oil and oil filter on your big CAT engine using bulk (not so perfectly clean oil) but for home automobile, I have some thoughts. It depends on how your oil filter is mounted, horizontal or vertical. Obviously, you can't pre-fill a horizontally mounted filter. My 2003 Ford Excursion has a vertically mounted filter and I always pre-fill the filter. Another point I want to make is with the filter already pre-filled and when you start the engine after the oil change the oil pump will get the oil much quicker and the time it takes to prime the oil pump is greatly reduced and also new oil will circulate the almost dry engine faster thus reducing any unnecessary dry start engine wear. Since for home DIY oil change project, we are buying brand new bottled oil either in 1- quart size or 5-quart size and there is no contamination so pre-filling the oil filter from the center or side holes makes no difference. Pre-filling the oil filter (whenever possible) does an engine good.
To the people who dont pre fill oil filters because "the oil is dirty because of mass production" or whatever, what exactly do you do with this "dirty" oil right before you pour it into your crankcase? I highly doubt you guys run it through some kind of filtration system before you put it in your engine.
Gilbert Rentas
Such a good point.
They are over thinking it with no pre fill approach yet dumping oil directly into the crankcase like everyone else. Ha!
oil from the crankcase is pumped directly through the filter, before it passes on through any of the oil galleries. The concern would be if the filter is prefilled through the center hole, where the unfiltered oil will be pumped into the galleries. I, Myself, don't worry about the contamination, if I'm pouring brand new oil from a brand new bottle, into a brand new filter. I would rather have the immediate oil pressure, to reduce 'scuff' on the initial restart after the oil/filter change.
My Cummins L9 with Fleetgaurd filters call for pre-filling the oil filter (even the can icons) and fuel filters (clean side on secondary filter - even comes with disposable cover /plug to assist your aim). My engine is RED, my filters are WHITE and I run the recommended Valvoline BLUE .
I work on construction/mining equipment from many different manufacturers. These manufacturers use many different brands of diesel engines. Cat, Cummins, Isuzu, Mitsubishi, Hino, Scania, Liebherr, and more. I can tell you from experience that NONE of these manufacturers allow for pre-filling of any filters. The fuel and oil you buy is NOT clean enough to meet their specifications until it is filtered. If you pour "new" oil or fuel into the clean side of a filter, you have just contaminated that filter. These manufacturers spend hundreds of millions of dollars on R&D. I don't care if your dad and grand-dad taught you to fill your filters, it is an incorrect procedure.
+nathan weber Thank you for the information, seems most people pre fill even with the manufacturer telling them it isn't a good idea.
Not only that its impossible on many Diesels my 4WD included.
According to Cummins quickserve to properly install a new oil filter you are supposed to fill with clean 15w-40. Looked up an ISX 15 871 and an ISB 6.7 CM2150 BOTH manufacturer manuals instructs you to pre fill the oil filter.
I always prefill both fuel and oil. The big thing with the oil filter is where it is in the sequence. If the oil goes directly from the pump to the filter then it is important to prefill your filter. But if it is the last thing to get oil then it isn't necessary to prefill.
The pump picks the oil up directly from the oil pan (sump), then, to the oil filter. After the oil filter, it goes into the oil gallery, where some goes to the camshaft bearings, lifter guides, crankshaft main and rod throw bearings, and finally, on to the piston wristpins and cylinder walls. The engine is NOT lubricating, until the filter is primed, and the pressure can build up. The pump is always a little bit big, so what oil can't flow through the tight clearances flows through a spring loaded by-pass valve, and simply dumps back into the pan. That spring loaded valve is what determines the oil pressure.
If you do not profil the oil filter it means momentarily there is no oil flow to your bearings.....I do NOT wish to take that risk.......
You think the oil that was on them from running last just vanished into thin air ? Lol
For years I've been pre-filling my oil filters so there isn't that sickening rattle the first time the engine is fired up after an oil change. These have all been gasoline engines. I let someone else work on the diesels because they're a different animal. I believe doing this helps the longevity of the engine whatever the fuel.
If you're starting out with a new filter and new oil, I don't see that it makes a bit of difference if you get oil in both sides. The oil won't get dirty and need filtering until it actually goes through the engine. The old filter you removed certainly had oil in both sides. Total non-issue. I doubt it makes a bit of difference either way.
I know on one of my old cars i have if i dont pre-fill the oil filter the rods knock when it starts after an oil change. I changed the rod bearings one time on an old ford tempo that did that. Pulled the pan and did it right in the car. Ford used rtv only for a gasket lol. Ah the good old days
fill it half way, best of both worlds
bdub z lol
🤣
If one is worried about contamination on "new" oil and fuel, why not pre-filter that fluid thru an OEM filter on a rig? you know have a small pump push the fluid thru a filter which is used only to pre-fill new filters being fitted to an engine and only right at the very moment they are to be installed. Then you get the best of both worlds, nice full filters, filled with properly filtered and clean fluid.
One "Pre-fill" filter would last probably hundreds of engine filter services before it had to be replaced itself.
By simply mounting the oil jug up high, you can simply gravity feed the oil through the filter, eliminating the need for a pump. pouring it slowly will insure that all the air is purged out of the filter media, giving the filter a better prefill.
I've always prefilled my oil filters. always have and always will. for the past 30 years and oh pobably million miles or so. Blackstone Labs gives me great news every time I send my 100k mile sample off. lower than average wear.
I've had the same car 10 years. Now 220, 000 and I've never prefilled my oil filter since my filter screw on sideways. my Car is still going strong.
the 2 questions depends on a lot of different things. There's no general yes or no!
Smart guy looks at the oil passage diagram for his engine. The bottom of the engine gets oil last after it has passed through the filter so waiting for the filter to fill then push it around takes awhile. In my experience, pre-filling the filter keeps the valves and bottom from rattling when you start it up which I think is a bigger problem than the possibility of soft dirt. If you do your pre-fill properly, cleanliness is next to godliness. Sparkly clean funnel, clean work space, clean bottle top. Fill through the center and let it sit until the oil migrates to the other side too. Put some more in, let it sit. Personally the guaranteed rattle of the bottom of the motor without oil for a few seconds is one hell of a lot worse than the small possibility of soft dirt getting into the bearing surfaces. If some dirt gets in the system, there is a chance that it will get filtered out next pass through after drain-back from the top (instead of heading to the mains and rods). Pre-fill the fuel filter? No experience.
It doesn't matter which way to fill it if you use NEW oil it does save a bit of a dry run for a few seconds
Graham Dawes For an oil change there is oil everywhere. Not exactly "dry"
Pacar says the same about there fuel rail and injectors. Our fleet shop came up with a process with a Mighty Vac to prime the system.
Yes. 40 year heavy equipment mechanic. The guy meanders, no time for that.
According to my TDI I always prefill the diesel filter but not the oil filter. Since the oilfilter gets wet and 'air/bubble-less within seconds anyway. But if the diesel filter isn't prefilled properly you'll get those nasty bubbles for a long time. Like my neighbours car has this problem and during drive it sometimes works out like limb mode.
Therefore on VAG (VW, Audi, Scoda...) diesel engines I always prefill the diesel filters.
And yes I fully Agree on Adept Ape for 'considering the filter direction' otherwise it might be dumb as nuts xD although it is actually that hard to find out how they work. :D
YES ALWAYS PRE_FILL! Saves main bearings. Change filter every 2000 change both oil & filter at 8000. Use 20/50 oil always.
Keith Hinkel what do you use 20w50 in
My Chrysler van.
man use a quality oil filter and you can definitely use the same filter for 8000 miles. Wix or motorcraft.
lowest heat temps by data..use it in my 78 Super Beetle 140HP
I hope you're not talking about big rigs. Nobody's changing filters after one week.
Never did pre fill oil filters. Always pre-filled fuel filters from center BUT...we had a filtered supply source for doing that!
you can hear the lifters pinging when you don't pre fill I always do
Some car engines that have a oil pump that's hard to prime. If you do not fill the oil filter then there is effectively a gap of air that is easily compressed meaning the pump will prime quicker.
As for diesel injectors I think there is always enough diesel left in the rail to lubricate the injectors before the engine runs on all cylinders.
1. No gas engine automotive oil filters contain a warning not to pre fill.
2. You are no more likely to get debris in your oil by pouring down the center hole in the filter than you are by pouring the oil in the oil fill opening in the valve cover.
3. Pre-filling an oil filter is called "good engineering practice." Maybe not important in the grand scheme of things, but reducing episodic reduced oil pressure over the life of an engine will never be a bad thing.
while i agree with filling filters, on your number 2 line you seem to be missing the point.
if you get dirt in thru the valve cover, the dirt passes through the filter and gets caught in the media, preventing it reaching the bearings in the engine. If that dirt gets into the center of the filter, it gets pushed right into the oiling system and lands itself into a bearing.
I simply fill the filter from a clean brand new bottle of oil and take extra care not to get any dirt into it. Problem solved.
I do the same thing you do. And I know how the oil passages are plumbed. My point is about being careful. I don't want dirt passing over the valve train on it's way to the sump any more then I want it in the pressurized side. If you are letting any dirt/debris in anywhere, then you are doing it wrong.
I think you still missed the point. One of the points was that the new oil has debris in it. If you pour it into the center hole of the filter then you just contaminated your "clean" oil. The center port on the filter is the outflow to the engine. If you pour oil from a bottle in there then the debris in the bottom of the bottle gets in your engine.
For most V8 engines there is no issue at the valve cover. The pressurized oil would just wash it away to the pan where it would get pumped straight to the filter. Assuming the drainback doesn't pass over the cam of course.
Also Pre-filling isn't a bad thing if done right. This was the other point of the video. If you prefill don't do it by pouring it in the center hole of the filter.
Reduced oil pressure does not hurt anything. As long as there is a film of oil and a supply the engine will be fine. Especially considering the almost non existent load of cranking. Just because the engine sat all night doesn't mean it doesn't have oil in the bearings. That oil is even more likely to still be there after the oil change and subsequent empty filter startup.
Cheers m8
I guess what your saying is don't prefill your oil filter with comtaminated oil? I certainly can understand that However I will contiune prefilling my trucks and equipment Nonetheless when i know I'm using quality grade clean engine oil and not using a dirty container
Take the used oil filter at a normal change interval straight from the engine and carefully extract an oil sample from the center with a turkey baster. This is the filtered oil that was continuously running for numerous hours in the engine up to the point when the filter was removed. Have that sample analyzed. Now pour clean oil straight from the container into a sample jar, this is the oil that will run thru the engine for a few seconds if you pour it into the center of the filter. Have that sample analyzed as well. Then show how the unfiltered new oil for a few seconds caused the bearing damage and the high-hours filtered oil could not have possibly caused any bearing damage or clogged a piston cooling jet, even with the possibility of momentary bypass such as in extreme cold start-up. The bottom line is due care must be taken to keep contamination or debris away from the inlet of the new oil filter during handling. I could handle the filter in a careless manner with grubby hands, or possibly the filter is mounted in a difficult to access location, and get a speck of crud in the clean side of the filter that way, even if I pre-filled the filter from the outer holes, or not pre-filled at all.
The amount of "contamination" that is in new oil or fuel is almost non-existent. Pre-fill your filters.
Rain Coast I agree with you
Absolutely on oil filter but not fuel better to install filter and use fuel tank pump to fill installed filters that way no unfiltered fuel goes to your high pressure pump and injectors.
I work for a very large excavation company with a lot o iron I pre fill all my filters with clean fuel.
Nonsense ! I've been replacing oil filters for 60 years and never had a problem with metal particles. Changing filters between oil changes once or twice is a better idea. Filters are not all that expensive.
On the Cat 1R-1807 oil filter it doesn’t say not to pre-fill but it does make sense to fill it from the dirty side like you’re saying.
Waaaay over thinking this, to the point where it`s almost scary. Many vehicles have the oil filter in such a position that to fit it, you have to turn it in every direction bar inside out! How would you keep oil in the damn thing. There`s really nothing in this at all, maybe all the conspiracy theories are getting to you.
Exactly to the point!
Have to agree, nearly every forklift engine I've serviced has the oil filter either horizontal, upside down or angled so prefilling will only achieve a right old mess!
I agree with you but big diesels are easy to fill and a different ballgame.For instance on a Detroit they even have 2 BIG filters that take almost a gallon and most guys will fill them and on a Detroit I recommend filling them.
duh! ever heard of gravity? in those cases I crank the engine without staring it to get it prefilled
So, it's not ok to put new oil from a bottle or from into the clean side of the filter cause it'll go directly into engine, but it's ok to put 14 quarts or however much right into the crankcase directly from the bottle or drum? Tell me what I'm missing.
Well, when I buy (new oil ) it has already been filtered to a specific micron of filtration from the producer. I was always taught to prefill new filters to keep from starving the engine upon startup, and I will always prefill my filters. I also worked as a diesel mechanic for years. There is a more fool proof way to completely resolve this conversation and that is to prefill the filters with a funnel that has a filter screen and yes I do. Bottom line engines run on fuel and oil so let's make sure it's ready to run or it could be a big headache nobody needs.
How about pre-filling fuel filters with Sea Foam (obviously through the outside)?
sorry dude but I disagree with everything you say....
why?
@Never Gonnatell Work from facts. "Feels" doesn't get it with heavy machinery.