I always assumed the reason Father's Day causes a world ending paradox is cause Pete gets saved by his own kid from the future rather than it being a fixed point.
No because doctor who doesn't work like that it was a fixed point because they knew he was dying so he has to die you can't stop the the Titanic because you know the Titanic sunk
The point of Fathers day is that Rose saving her Dad creates a paradox, Rose saving her Dad means he doesn't die, meaning she wouldn't go back in the first place to save him and then he would die and she would save him, and so on and so on.
Its bigger then what you point at. Because Rose father remaining alive prevented the birth of the classic Whoniverse. (Its Big bang moment took place in 2008; source Rose Journeys End (TARDIS being dragged to the Dalek crucible that created the classic whoniverse from an moment of the lost/alternative/previous Whoniverse.) Because the Timelords was always from the planet we know as Mondas. Just as the new Whoniverse rulers over time are us. Yes us. Us mankind from the classic Earth that was stolen and then returned to the wrong (read; new) Whoniverse hidden in plain sight. Our (classic) Earth will fall to the Daleks and turned into New Skaro. While a newly built timemachine saves us all, twice. RIVERS. There are four known Doctors. from/for four different Whoniversis. Our Doctor & his sister Romana (born as Toni & Rose Tyler) CAL (the first new Doctor) the raven save of Clara Oswald A female Rassilon (original wife of our Doctor (Doctor in the lost whoniverse original ppl Ragnarookians/Weeping angels of old.) And the final one we know of. The Celestial Toymaker. (Rassilon ascended and became a Celestial toymaker(Along side a "few" others to for the new Guardians over time protecting thier ascentions) (Jon Simms last act was to burn Gallifrey in the same moment it was frozen (thus ascending those at the Gallifreyan high counsil) and trapping the rest in an Schrödingers cat like state before; after exiting the void; ascending the TARDIS (turning it into a ghost)(wont go into the details here but it became the "Holy ghost" monument. as the Father, Child and Holy ghost created the new Whoniverse. So much more...but ill stop here.
I thought the real paradox was because the past versions of the Doctor and Rose witnessed her saving him, which doubly negates the reason for her saving him.
@Julius Stricto yea that is a good point, thats a paradox too, but i think it gets cancelled out by the bigger paradox of Pete being alive, which would mean rose would never go back to save him.
In terms of the 'Fixed Point'...point, my favourite interpretation of it was the one presented in The Time Travellers and The Council of Eight arc in the EDA'S (and to a lesser extent, Creatures of Beauty), in which every time you step outside the TARDIS, history changes and the morally right timelines can also be seen as 'objectively' wrong. Even companions joining the TARDIS can be stranding the Web of Time further (Ace, SJ, Harry, Mel, Charley). The Doctor is a healer and wise person towards many people, but they're equally a cancer, especially to races that are struggling to survive by having 'objective' Time as a resource. And it's tested many times whether the Doctor should have the right to wipe out a whole reality (Blood Heat, Reckless Engineering). Now, it's arguably the most cynical philosophical debate in the Series, but it's personally my favourite. I love it for so many reasons as an existentialist and absurdist. And in the end, The Doctor still proves that it's the morality that personally matters.
Is there a way to get a hold of the VNAs and other 90s prose in a way that isn't... cripplingly expensive? I live in the States. I don't imagine most libraries would have them. Sure there's the TARDIS wiki, but sometimes I feel like there's this entire avenue of the Whoniverse that I only read about in secondhand accounts.
I swear, 8 must have some sort of hex on him. That and the fact opening the eye of harmony splintered his timeline so the man is basically living many different lives at once until it all sort of comes together in the time war (paradoxical war undoing a paradox?) and then he becomes John Hurt...
It's amazing just how much of the EDAs were concerned with corrupting 8's biodata, it's like a weekly occurrence for 8 to run into someone trying to warp his biodata
For me, an interesting take on fixed points was in Graceless, an audio spinoff about one-off Fifth Doctor companions Abby (was Amy in the stories she was in with Five) and Zara. It’s clearly established that Abby and Zara can change things, but they always have to face the consequences of what they’ve done. They save a planet’s people when the planet itself is destroyed, which means that their boyfriend never met them and so the version of him they know (and his and Zara’s child) both vanish. Then they try to change the outcome of this one battle because they think their boyfriend is there, but it doesn’t work, so they do it again. And again. And again. Sometimes it works but makes the rest of history worse in the long run, sometimes nothing happens. They go back and change this one point so much, they literally break time at this one spot. Then, they find out that everything they’ve done has an impact, and the only way to guarantee that time won’t break in the future is if they die. So they make one last change, to give a couple a happy ending, and then they choose to die. Of course, they get brought back, for a single purpose: their creator, the Grace, goes back, talks to everyone they’ve helped and everyone they’ve hurt through their interference in time, and tries to figure out if it’s worth it. Naturally, the people who they’ve helped said it absolutely is, and the people who they’ve hurt said that it’s absolutely not. Yeah, after the first time it did get a little repetitive, but I still thought it was an interesting listen.
i think my favourite interpretation of fixed points is the idea that if you know something happens, it has to happen, but you are still able to change things that you werent aware of (like donna saving the pompei family) or by using misunderstandings ( the doctor hiding inside the tesselactor so he can survive his "death"). there are only a few moments i can think of that defy this intirely, but those might well have etenuating circumstnces ( like the doctor being empowered by psychic energy after here comes the drums)
The way I look at fixed points is that changing history *can* be dangerous and to varrying degrees, but that there's some kind of system of remedying or correcting for paradoxes, and that fixed points are particularly vulnerable areas. It's sort of like a disease. Most people will be minorly affected by a cold, some people will be bedridden, and for a small minority, it's fatal. Time Lords have a general idea and possibly instinctual sense of which points are more or less vulnerable. I also figured that the Time Lords overall have some combination of technology and sci-fi not-magic to aid the natural correction process. Again, this is all just how I rationalize it. Really there's just no consistent rule.
Angels Take Manhattan history can be Rewritten but not once it's been red I need to spread this word to everyone it's quite simply that you can't change history when you know it
Man I know it’s a hot take but I have a fondness for the edgy madness of the Wilderness Years, not very much of it was written well but the body horror and social commentary potential of the era was unmatched. I genuinely think Killing Ground is the second best Cyberman story right after Spare Parts.
Though I don't remember much about it, there was this one short story in which the Celestial Toymaker tried to convince the sixth doctor that all of the classic run from just before the savages until that point, wasn't actually canon, and then tried to take credit for all the props and effects during that time such as saying that the daleks were actually made from plastic. I don't remember much about what happened. I've read it twice and still don't understand it, but it came from some collection of horror stories and was the sequel to another in that book (the book was the same one that included the story about Harry and the Carrionites).
In Day of the Daleks isn't time treated as being in flux although sometimes trying to stop something from happening is what causes it to happen. Also in Pyramids of Mars it's stated that everyone can change time in small ways and powerful beings like Sutekh in big ways. The revelation in Unnatural History that all of the Doctor's given origins are equally true is worth a mention too.
The way they should present it is that The Doctor doesn't change things, not because they can't, but because if they did, they wouldn't be able to get their friends home again. As the doctor moves on to other companions throughout history, they focus on not altering the time they're from. That's why events in the 70s and 80s don't make sense in the series anymore, because The Doctor doesn't care about maintaining that time period because they've moved on to the 21st Century.
sorry to hear youve been feeling low man, you make some of the best stuff on the platform and most of its down to you just seeming like a super likable guy! obvs i dont know you but ive found that all things pass eventually. hope youre feeling better soon king :)
I do want to bring up something that gets overlooked. The doctor says time is vulnerable because they're two sets of them there. Not just the fact they saved one man.
If there are no fixed points and the Doctor can just change shit, then 5 has absolutely no excuse for not saving Adric besides just not feeling like it. LIke Tegan suggests it once and 5 immediately decides it is out of the realm of possibilities
I like the idea that the Doctor needs these rules because if he really let go of the idea of fixed points and changed history as much as he wanted, rather than only doing it on a minor scale and rarely truly defying the rules, he wouldn't be able to draw a line. Save all of pompeii? Ok, but why not everyone who died from a volcano eruption? Then why not everyone who ever died an "untimely" death, actually, future humans might have biological immortality, why not give that to everyone ever? If the Doctor let go and saved everyone, time would collapse, and the universe might end up like it was before the Time Lords made time rational or whatever, and end up collapsing under too many re-writes
Oh thank goodness this is just what I needed after filling out college paperwork all day so good old facts about all the horrific ways the doctor has been injured over the years honestly I'd trade spots with him right about now if it means no more paperwork.
Fixed points are a thing in math, basically the invariant point or points in any mathematical transformation. certain topological transformations are guaranteed to have fixed points, (like those depicted in Doctor Who,) but there are couple of ways to deal with them: 1: translation. you can’t erase them with this method, but if you move them, you can deal with them later. (this is what the doctor did in The Wedding of River Song” 2: annihilation. if you have two inverse points, you can move one into the other, and they cancel out. (this is what Amy and Rory did in Angels Take Manhattan) 3: cut a hole. transformations without fixed points is absolutely possible with holes. An example of a topological hole is a coffee cup, a donut, or… a crack in space time.
You mentioned in your recurring writers video that you'd like to see what Lawrence Miles would do as showrunner. It may interest you to know that he actually wrote an "If I was showrunner" pilot script and published it on his blog back during the Tennant era. It's called "The Book of the World", and it's hard to find online now, but not impossible.
I knew I'd never get to go, but it's a damn shame about Time Fracture. But also: Hurt and McCoy should've just tag-teamed the Time War. "Hang about, the rest of Gallifrey. we got this."
It it was literally explained in angels Manhattan once you know something is going to happen you can't change it we can't say Pete Tyler because we know he's going to die you could scratch a bunch of Adventures post war games from the second doctor but still he's eventually going to die because he called the time Lords at the end of War games you still eventually is going to be executed and the third doctor is going to be thrown down on Earth
Rose saving her dad was a paradox. It's not the same as a fixed point. Also, I think fixed points may be relative to the tine traveler. If the Doctor knows the outcome, the point is fixed. If the Doctor does not know the outcome, or he remembers an alternative history, then the point is not fixed. Basically, someone can go back in time and kill Hitler before he comes to power, but only if he doesn't know who Hitler is. One cant travel in tike with the intention of changing history as they know it, but they can change the history they dont know and avoid a paradox. This would explain why he can save "little people" but not historical figures. Its also why he can save a few people from Pompeii, but not the entire city. With Roses dad, she was not just changing known history, but her personal known history. Thats why those paradox eaters showed up. If the Doctor tries to change a "fixed point" then time will make an attempt to correct itself so that the changes to time are minimal. Of course the truth is that there are no actual rules to Doctor Who
I was messing around with logic and clicked on a sfx that was the one you use for getting facts. I find it annoying that was the first thing I thought off
I remain unconvinced about fixed points not mattering. Hey, really love the idea of it being Time Lord dogma in need of examination. What is behind the fixed point laws and why have the humans made it all about them? Also what's stopping the doctor from going back and resurrecting Gallifrey again?
@@LukSter18998 UNIT raided the ATMOS basement, found the tech, dissected the Martha clone and over the years they reverse engineered it. If you look at the template half-form clone. It is a smooth, muted facsimile, born of a goop pit. The independent flesh clones aren't abominations, they are the completed process.
I am genuinely upset that TF closed early. There was so much I didn't experience and I'd intended on heading back down from the Highlands to London in August to visit again. A damn shame as it was one of the most unexpectedly validating experiences of my life.
The Second Doctor was once shot point blank in the face in The Indestructible Man (he actually started regenerating, but an injection of alien DNA and being put into suspended animation halted the process), so this kind of thing isn't limited to Seven and Eight.
Speaking of the Titanic, the Doctor has gone there without a companion. We see a picture of the Ninth Doctor from the Titanic. And I think others might have been too, don't remember exactly though. There is also a plotline a vaguely remember where the Titanic doesn't sink and it's "bad". Maybe it is the Doctor that caused the sinking.
Maybe he didn't maybe it's an Unbound story where a version of the doctor is still just wandering and if the human is still alive he's not going to eventually die as Matt Smith no he's just going to be Pat trout in Forever
Personally I think fixed points can be explained away through the quantum physics concept of decoherence. Prior to the doctor entering a timeline it is in a superposition of possibilities. When the TARDIS arrives the timeline decoheres into one. By interference time travelers make fixed points. Their version of history becomes the "true" one. This concept can also be used to explain away contradictions. Like when the doctor leaves the timeline goes back into superposition.
but the doctor can't debunk the idea of a multiverse the series literally has whole episodes where they travel in it namely inferno, rise of the cybermen, the age of steel, army of ghosts, turn left, the stolen earth, journeys end and the curse of the black spot
Technically those are parallel universes like there's a f****** different I don't really get the difference it's the same f****** plot device but people get on your case about it
Time is fixed the moment it's written the doctor thought the time Lord's burned and 10 9 still do believe for their entire lives Gallifrey is gone for the purposes of the universe Gallifrey burned but an actuality all the people survived in an alternate universe see you can rewrite history but it has to be written down the exact same way you could save a family in Pompeii but Pompeii has to burn
I just cannot stand that the doc escaped the pandorica because he escaped it. That is the entire reason. Such a paradox would either never exist or would loop infinitely outside of linear time. Most absurd moment of the series
It's a boots trap paradox. It can and would happen all the time if you had time travel In fact it does Rory, let's out the doctor who then gives rory his screwdriver so that he can let out the doctor et cetera, etcetera
7:21 My headcanon on Mia and Yuri is that they went into hiding, letting the public think they died on Mars (perhaps with the help of a cover-up from Unit or Torchwood), in order to not render Captain Brooke's sacrifice pointless.
But they don't even f****** know about the timeline that episode doesn't actually matter because it wasn't actually a fixed point because that entire timeline is about to be wiped out you know why cuz we're not really living up to that point and our universe is the master Universe the real world has influence over the Doctor Who universe our plane of existence is a higher plane of existence to theirs I'm pretty sure that our world influences theirs on a meta level
Mia and Yuri being alive and telling the story doesn't change the Timeline of Brooke's Granddaughter. She was inspired because she wanted to be like her heroic grandmother who sacrificed her life to save the Earth, which she did in both Timelines. She knows about the Flood because of Mia and Yuri, so surely, everyone believes that he killed herself because she believed she had been affected or something.
Can you do a video reviewing the non numbered doctors Like Doctor from time hunter series,scream of salka (best doctor imo),the "other" 8th doctor (ua-cam.com/video/X5d5pQM7IGo/v-deo.html),the other "13th" Doctor and so many more And no not counting war doctor or Fugitive doctor (black woman) as they kinda hint where they are and we already have big stories from tham thanks to bbc,comics and big finish combined
I don't really see how any of that means fixed points aren't real. It just means yes, "little people" are real even if the name's a bit harsh and even if the Doctor usually wouldn't want to admit there are "little people", and it means time can be pretty wonky, to the extent that Rose's father is massively important but two members of Bowie Base One aren't. Anyway, it's nice to find out Doctor Who has the backrooms.
The doctor could save a Gallifrey because he always would save gallivray it's a self-sufficient Loop because if he used the moment it's a Galaxy eater it would have probably killed Captain grumpy so we wouldn't gotten big ears and we need him to have sand shoes and bow tie
How do you know that Caecilius' family weren't destined to survive? That they didn't tell people that, they escaped or were away during the eruption, when in fact the Doctor saved them? People who had tickets didn't manage to board the Titanic. That is actually true, but in the Whoniverse the Doctor warned them not to go....point is, just because Pete was "meant" to die (so that baby Anthony could be born on Earth 2), it doesn't follow that the Caecilius family were similarly "meant" to die. If not for the Doctor, they might have survived anyway - most of the population in fact survived the eruption
This (along with other) arguments you've made leads to a single question, do you actually like Doctor Who? I'm fairly convinced that you no longer do. Knowledge of the minutiae is one thing.... Within this specific argument, is there an argument that the Doctor *is* a fixed point? Of course there is, it's the Doctor. The Madhouse is only as mad as the infinite imagination of those who do the things that lead to the things that contradict the other things. The best lines in the continuity are: "...But the paradoxes...?" "Resolve themselves, largely...."
I always assumed the reason Father's Day causes a world ending paradox is cause Pete gets saved by his own kid from the future rather than it being a fixed point.
No because doctor who doesn't work like that it was a fixed point because they knew he was dying so he has to die you can't stop the the Titanic because you know the Titanic sunk
The point of Fathers day is that Rose saving her Dad creates a paradox, Rose saving her Dad means he doesn't die, meaning she wouldn't go back in the first place to save him and then he would die and she would save him, and so on and so on.
exactly, whereas the fact that donna saves that one family doesn't mean she wouldn't stop
Its bigger then what you point at.
Because Rose father remaining alive prevented the birth of the classic Whoniverse.
(Its Big bang moment took place in 2008; source Rose Journeys End (TARDIS being dragged to the Dalek crucible that created the classic whoniverse from an moment of the lost/alternative/previous Whoniverse.)
Because the Timelords was always from the planet we know as Mondas.
Just as the new Whoniverse rulers over time are us.
Yes us. Us mankind from the classic Earth that was stolen and then returned to the wrong (read; new) Whoniverse hidden in plain sight.
Our (classic) Earth will fall to the Daleks and turned into New Skaro.
While a newly built timemachine saves us all, twice. RIVERS.
There are four known Doctors.
from/for four different Whoniversis.
Our Doctor & his sister Romana (born as Toni & Rose Tyler)
CAL (the first new Doctor) the raven save of Clara Oswald
A female Rassilon (original wife of our Doctor (Doctor in the lost whoniverse original ppl Ragnarookians/Weeping angels of old.)
And the final one we know of.
The Celestial Toymaker.
(Rassilon ascended and became a Celestial toymaker(Along side a "few" others to for the new Guardians over time protecting thier ascentions) (Jon Simms last act was to burn Gallifrey in the same moment it was frozen (thus ascending those at the Gallifreyan high counsil) and trapping the rest in an Schrödingers cat like state before; after exiting the void; ascending the TARDIS (turning it into a ghost)(wont go into the details here but it became the "Holy ghost" monument.
as the Father, Child and Holy ghost created the new Whoniverse.
So much more...but ill stop here.
@@kennethnystrom593 Welcome back, Kenneth. Where do The Mire and Suhtek fit into this then?
I thought the real paradox was because the past versions of the Doctor and Rose witnessed her saving him, which doubly negates the reason for her saving him.
@Julius Stricto yea that is a good point, thats a paradox too, but i think it gets cancelled out by the bigger paradox of Pete being alive, which would mean rose would never go back to save him.
In terms of the 'Fixed Point'...point, my favourite interpretation of it was the one presented in The Time Travellers and The Council of Eight arc in the EDA'S (and to a lesser extent, Creatures of Beauty), in which every time you step outside the TARDIS, history changes and the morally right timelines can also be seen as 'objectively' wrong. Even companions joining the TARDIS can be stranding the Web of Time further (Ace, SJ, Harry, Mel, Charley). The Doctor is a healer and wise person towards many people, but they're equally a cancer, especially to races that are struggling to survive by having 'objective' Time as a resource. And it's tested many times whether the Doctor should have the right to wipe out a whole reality (Blood Heat, Reckless Engineering). Now, it's arguably the most cynical philosophical debate in the Series, but it's personally my favourite. I love it for so many reasons as an existentialist and absurdist. And in the end, The Doctor still proves that it's the morality that personally matters.
Is there a way to get a hold of the VNAs and other 90s prose in a way that isn't... cripplingly expensive? I live in the States. I don't imagine most libraries would have them. Sure there's the TARDIS wiki, but sometimes I feel like there's this entire avenue of the Whoniverse that I only read about in secondhand accounts.
@@calvinfranklyn5499 quite a few of the books (unfortunately not all) are available on the internet archive
love the idea of the doctor going to the backrooms.
I swear, 8 must have some sort of hex on him. That and the fact opening the eye of harmony splintered his timeline so the man is basically living many different lives at once until it all sort of comes together in the time war (paradoxical war undoing a paradox?) and then he becomes John Hurt...
It's amazing just how much of the EDAs were concerned with corrupting 8's biodata, it's like a weekly occurrence for 8 to run into someone trying to warp his biodata
Sorry, can't comment, busy trying to corrupt 8's biodata and give him amnesia.
Ah, so THAT's why he got three 9th incarnations...
For me, an interesting take on fixed points was in Graceless, an audio spinoff about one-off Fifth Doctor companions Abby (was Amy in the stories she was in with Five) and Zara. It’s clearly established that Abby and Zara can change things, but they always have to face the consequences of what they’ve done.
They save a planet’s people when the planet itself is destroyed, which means that their boyfriend never met them and so the version of him they know (and his and Zara’s child) both vanish.
Then they try to change the outcome of this one battle because they think their boyfriend is there, but it doesn’t work, so they do it again. And again. And again. Sometimes it works but makes the rest of history worse in the long run, sometimes nothing happens. They go back and change this one point so much, they literally break time at this one spot.
Then, they find out that everything they’ve done has an impact, and the only way to guarantee that time won’t break in the future is if they die. So they make one last change, to give a couple a happy ending, and then they choose to die.
Of course, they get brought back, for a single purpose: their creator, the Grace, goes back, talks to everyone they’ve helped and everyone they’ve hurt through their interference in time, and tries to figure out if it’s worth it. Naturally, the people who they’ve helped said it absolutely is, and the people who they’ve hurt said that it’s absolutely not.
Yeah, after the first time it did get a little repetitive, but I still thought it was an interesting listen.
i think my favourite interpretation of fixed points is the idea that if you know something happens, it has to happen, but you are still able to change things that you werent aware of (like donna saving the pompei family) or by using misunderstandings ( the doctor hiding inside the tesselactor so he can survive his "death"). there are only a few moments i can think of that defy this intirely, but those might well have etenuating circumstnces ( like the doctor being empowered by psychic energy after here comes the drums)
I really hope Time Fracture comes to America, everything I've seen about it looks so cool
The way I look at fixed points is that changing history *can* be dangerous and to varrying degrees, but that there's some kind of system of remedying or correcting for paradoxes, and that fixed points are particularly vulnerable areas. It's sort of like a disease. Most people will be minorly affected by a cold, some people will be bedridden, and for a small minority, it's fatal. Time Lords have a general idea and possibly instinctual sense of which points are more or less vulnerable. I also figured that the Time Lords overall have some combination of technology and sci-fi not-magic to aid the natural correction process. Again, this is all just how I rationalize it. Really there's just no consistent rule.
Angels Take Manhattan history can be Rewritten but not once it's been red I need to spread this word to everyone it's quite simply that you can't change history when you know it
Man I know it’s a hot take but I have a fondness for the edgy madness of the Wilderness Years, not very much of it was written well but the body horror and social commentary potential of the era was unmatched. I genuinely think Killing Ground is the second best Cyberman story right after Spare Parts.
Good lord 8, its no wonder why we have at least 4 9th Doctors
That sounded more Scherzo than Heaven Sent
Though I don't remember much about it, there was this one short story in which the Celestial Toymaker tried to convince the sixth doctor that all of the classic run from just before the savages until that point, wasn't actually canon, and then tried to take credit for all the props and effects during that time such as saying that the daleks were actually made from plastic. I don't remember much about what happened. I've read it twice and still don't understand it, but it came from some collection of horror stories and was the sequel to another in that book (the book was the same one that included the story about Harry and the Carrionites).
In Day of the Daleks isn't time treated as being in flux although sometimes trying to stop something from happening is what causes it to happen. Also in Pyramids of Mars it's stated that everyone can change time in small ways and powerful beings like Sutekh in big ways.
The revelation in Unnatural History that all of the Doctor's given origins are equally true is worth a mention too.
The way they should present it is that The Doctor doesn't change things, not because they can't, but because if they did, they wouldn't be able to get their friends home again. As the doctor moves on to other companions throughout history, they focus on not altering the time they're from. That's why events in the 70s and 80s don't make sense in the series anymore, because The Doctor doesn't care about maintaining that time period because they've moved on to the 21st Century.
sorry to hear youve been feeling low man, you make some of the best stuff on the platform and most of its down to you just seeming like a super likable guy! obvs i dont know you but ive found that all things pass eventually. hope youre feeling better soon king :)
Holy cow, I love this theory that 10 is on a character arc about the rules.
I do want to bring up something that gets overlooked. The doctor says time is vulnerable because they're two sets of them there. Not just the fact they saved one man.
And the same thing happens with the World of River Song.
Time splintered because two versions of events happened in the same Time
Broke cannon is like comfort food in video form. Thanks for all the hard work DAVIS :)
In Father's Day, the Doccy says something like 'two of us being here makes this a weak point'... so it's pretty unique in that way already.
If there are no fixed points and the Doctor can just change shit, then 5 has absolutely no excuse for not saving Adric besides just not feeling like it. LIke Tegan suggests it once and 5 immediately decides it is out of the realm of possibilities
I like the idea that the Doctor needs these rules because if he really let go of the idea of fixed points and changed history as much as he wanted, rather than only doing it on a minor scale and rarely truly defying the rules, he wouldn't be able to draw a line. Save all of pompeii? Ok, but why not everyone who died from a volcano eruption? Then why not everyone who ever died an "untimely" death, actually, future humans might have biological immortality, why not give that to everyone ever?
If the Doctor let go and saved everyone, time would collapse, and the universe might end up like it was before the Time Lords made time rational or whatever, and end up collapsing under too many re-writes
Oh thank goodness this is just what I needed after filling out college paperwork all day so good old facts about all the horrific ways the doctor has been injured over the years honestly I'd trade spots with him right about now if it means no more paperwork.
Wait, the Multivarium... An endless room filled with doors... Did the Doctor fall into the Backrooms?
Fixed points are a thing in math, basically the invariant point or points in any mathematical transformation. certain topological transformations are guaranteed to have fixed points, (like those depicted in Doctor Who,) but there are couple of ways to deal with them:
1: translation. you can’t erase them with this method, but if you move them, you can deal with them later. (this is what the doctor did in The Wedding of River Song”
2: annihilation. if you have two inverse points, you can move one into the other, and they cancel out. (this is what Amy and Rory did in Angels Take Manhattan)
3: cut a hole. transformations without fixed points is absolutely possible with holes. An example of a topological hole is a coffee cup, a donut, or… a crack in space time.
You mentioned in your recurring writers video that you'd like to see what Lawrence Miles would do as showrunner. It may interest you to know that he actually wrote an "If I was showrunner" pilot script and published it on his blog back during the Tennant era. It's called "The Book of the World", and it's hard to find online now, but not impossible.
How do I find this?
I knew I'd never get to go, but it's a damn shame about Time Fracture.
But also: Hurt and McCoy should've just tag-teamed the Time War. "Hang about, the rest of Gallifrey. we got this."
When I spoke to Brian he DID know about the events of Time Lord Victorious. We had a whole conversation at the interval bar about all the events.
I remember reading the room of many doors when I was like 14, and it absolutely blew my mind. It might be my favourite doctor who story
At this point, I'd believe there's an in-universe reason so that if the Doctor decides it's a fixed point in time, it is, and if they don't, it isn't.
It it was literally explained in angels Manhattan once you know something is going to happen you can't change it we can't say Pete Tyler because we know he's going to die you could scratch a bunch of Adventures post war games from the second doctor but still he's eventually going to die because he called the time Lords at the end of War games you still eventually is going to be executed and the third doctor is going to be thrown down on Earth
Rose saving her dad was a paradox. It's not the same as a fixed point. Also, I think fixed points may be relative to the tine traveler. If the Doctor knows the outcome, the point is fixed. If the Doctor does not know the outcome, or he remembers an alternative history, then the point is not fixed.
Basically, someone can go back in time and kill Hitler before he comes to power, but only if he doesn't know who Hitler is. One cant travel in tike with the intention of changing history as they know it, but they can change the history they dont know and avoid a paradox.
This would explain why he can save "little people" but not historical figures. Its also why he can save a few people from Pompeii, but not the entire city.
With Roses dad, she was not just changing known history, but her personal known history. Thats why those paradox eaters showed up.
If the Doctor tries to change a "fixed point" then time will make an attempt to correct itself so that the changes to time are minimal.
Of course the truth is that there are no actual rules to Doctor Who
The Multivarium reminds me of Liminal Spaces, aka The Backrooms, but instead of horror based it's more surreal in nature.
I was messing around with logic and clicked on a sfx that was the one you use for getting facts. I find it annoying that was the first thing I thought off
Davis back at it again with a great video as always
Also hey, thanks for the shoutout. 7 and 8 *sure* get many injuries lol
Somehow I knew it was Ruaidhri's fault, and of course Ben was stirring the pot
It looks like John Kramer kidnapped Brian the Ood, "Hello Brian the Ood I want to play a game"
I remain unconvinced about fixed points not mattering. Hey, really love the idea of it being Time Lord dogma in need of examination. What is behind the fixed point laws and why have the humans made it all about them?
Also what's stopping the doctor from going back and resurrecting Gallifrey again?
'The Rebel Flesh' technology is derived from Sontaran cloning tech
Any Proof?
you mean from Unit?
@@LukSter18998 UNIT raided the ATMOS basement, found the tech, dissected the Martha clone and over the years they reverse engineered it.
If you look at the template half-form clone. It is a smooth, muted facsimile, born of a goop pit.
The independent flesh clones aren't abominations, they are the completed process.
I am genuinely upset that TF closed early. There was so much I didn't experience and I'd intended on heading back down from the Highlands to London in August to visit again. A damn shame as it was one of the most unexpectedly validating experiences of my life.
The Second Doctor was once shot point blank in the face in The Indestructible Man (he actually started regenerating, but an injection of alien DNA and being put into suspended animation halted the process), so this kind of thing isn't limited to Seven and Eight.
Interesting point about the kerblam man since I had a nice chat with a man carrying both halves of a decapitated kerblam man
I hope Time Fracture comes to Scotland i always wanted to go to it but train prices down to London and hotels would have been a nightmare ahaha
Great episode once again :>
Eight also had to perform eye surgery on himself after spending 3 years in prison that left him with PTSD in Seeing I
My eyes hurt now
0:12 is that Pryanka? c'mon queeen of the North
we had Daleks in DRUK S3, now it's time for the twist
Speaking of the Titanic, the Doctor has gone there without a companion. We see a picture of the Ninth Doctor from the Titanic. And I think others might have been too, don't remember exactly though. There is also a plotline a vaguely remember where the Titanic doesn't sink and it's "bad". Maybe it is the Doctor that caused the sinking.
So....HOW DID HE GET OUT OF THE MULTIVARIAN? Don't leave us hanging!!!
Maybe he didn't maybe it's an Unbound story where a version of the doctor is still just wandering and if the human is still alive he's not going to eventually die as Matt Smith no he's just going to be Pat trout in Forever
The doctor is in denial about fixed points.
and then he finds room 11
Personally I think fixed points can be explained away through the quantum physics concept of decoherence. Prior to the doctor entering a timeline it is in a superposition of possibilities. When the TARDIS arrives the timeline decoheres into one. By interference time travelers make fixed points.
Their version of history becomes the "true" one. This concept can also be used to explain away contradictions. Like when the doctor leaves the timeline goes back into superposition.
The 2nd doctor got stuck in the backrooms
RIP Ood.
but the doctor can't debunk the idea of a multiverse the series literally has whole episodes where they travel in it namely inferno, rise of the cybermen, the age of steel, army of ghosts, turn left, the stolen earth, journeys end and the curse of the black spot
Technically those are parallel universes like there's a f****** different I don't really get the difference it's the same f****** plot device but people get on your case about it
Time is fixed the moment it's written the doctor thought the time Lord's burned and 10 9 still do believe for their entire lives Gallifrey is gone for the purposes of the universe Gallifrey burned but an actuality all the people survived in an alternate universe see you can rewrite history but it has to be written down the exact same way you could save a family in Pompeii but Pompeii has to burn
Have you done a video on the humanoid daleks yet?
There is only 1 fixed point in DW.
The Big bang moment.
I just cannot stand that the doc escaped the pandorica because he escaped it. That is the entire reason. Such a paradox would either never exist or would loop infinitely outside of linear time. Most absurd moment of the series
It's a boots trap paradox. It can and would happen all the time if you had time travel
In fact it does
Rory, let's out the doctor who then gives rory his screwdriver so that he can let out the doctor et cetera, etcetera
Soooo...basically The Second Doctor went to the backrooms?
7:21 My headcanon on Mia and Yuri is that they went into hiding, letting the public think they died on Mars (perhaps with the help of a cover-up from Unit or Torchwood), in order to not render Captain Brooke's sacrifice pointless.
But we saw a newspaper article where they discuss the events
But they don't even f****** know about the timeline that episode doesn't actually matter because it wasn't actually a fixed point because that entire timeline is about to be wiped out you know why cuz we're not really living up to that point and our universe is the master Universe the real world has influence over the Doctor Who universe our plane of existence is a higher plane of existence to theirs I'm pretty sure that our world influences theirs on a meta level
Mia and Yuri being alive and telling the story doesn't change the Timeline of Brooke's Granddaughter.
She was inspired because she wanted to be like her heroic grandmother who sacrificed her life to save the Earth, which she did in both Timelines.
She knows about the Flood because of Mia and Yuri, so surely, everyone believes that he killed herself because she believed she had been affected or something.
If I remember correctly the 8th doctor absorbing all the energy was meant to how 9 came to be born
Glad it wasn't he already dies of radiation too many times he doesn't need to tie of time Vortex radiation twice in a row
9:42 that picture isn't about string theory. It's the double slit experiment which demonstrates particle wave duality.
Yeah, but sometimes you just need a scan.
@@SamyulDavis Fair. Does the book really discuss string theory?
I've studied physics for nearly a decade and I still barely understand string theory.
@@SamyulDavis At least not well enough to write a whole story about it.
Ooh, Just when I was looking for new things to read. I'll start with these two, 4:11 & 9:39, ta.
Can you do a video reviewing the non numbered doctors
Like Doctor from time hunter series,scream of salka (best doctor imo),the "other" 8th doctor (ua-cam.com/video/X5d5pQM7IGo/v-deo.html),the other "13th" Doctor and so many more
And no not counting war doctor or Fugitive doctor (black woman) as they kinda hint where they are and we already have big stories from tham thanks to bbc,comics and big finish combined
No way 2nd Doctor no clipped into The Backrooms
Did this have a different title yesterday? I feel like it did but maybe my brain's making that up.
I don't really see how any of that means fixed points aren't real. It just means yes, "little people" are real even if the name's a bit harsh and even if the Doctor usually wouldn't want to admit there are "little people", and it means time can be pretty wonky, to the extent that Rose's father is massively important but two members of Bowie Base One aren't.
Anyway, it's nice to find out Doctor Who has the backrooms.
Not comfortable letting the 'Lords' decide who matters or not
@@SamyulDavis fair enough, I don't think they decide, they just know
Sam, Leonardo was mainly in the 15th century, he was born in 1452 and died in 1519
I refuse to believe this
The doctor could save a Gallifrey because he always would save gallivray it's a self-sufficient Loop because if he used the moment it's a Galaxy eater it would have probably killed Captain grumpy so we wouldn't gotten big ears and we need him to have sand shoes and bow tie
sounds like they really hated Paul Megan in these books.
How did you know my DW story idea was based on bashing the concept of fixed points
How do you know that Caecilius' family weren't destined to survive? That they didn't tell people that, they escaped or were away during the eruption, when in fact the Doctor saved them?
People who had tickets didn't manage to board the Titanic. That is actually true, but in the Whoniverse the Doctor warned them not to go....point is, just because Pete was "meant" to die (so that baby Anthony could be born on Earth 2), it doesn't follow that the Caecilius family were similarly "meant" to die.
If not for the Doctor, they might have survived anyway - most of the population in fact survived the eruption
Because then the point of the story falls flat
is the multivarium is the backrooms
WOOOOO
I feel like the fixed points in time worked perfectly fine before Moffat got his grabby little Moffaty hands on them.
So basically the Monk is correct The Doctor is a hypocrite and the timelords are bastards
This (along with other) arguments you've made leads to a single question, do you actually like Doctor Who? I'm fairly convinced that you no longer do. Knowledge of the minutiae is one thing....
Within this specific argument, is there an argument that the Doctor *is* a fixed point? Of course there is, it's the Doctor.
The Madhouse is only as mad as the infinite imagination of those who do the things that lead to the things that contradict the other things.
The best lines in the continuity are:
"...But the paradoxes...?"
"Resolve themselves, largely...."
leonardo da vinci kissed my dad
Doctor who doesn't have cannon I've been watching it sinse the early 80s never has
That's the mantra of my series!
Literally why the series is called “Broke Canon”
But some things we'd actually don't count like all the horrible deaths the '90s gave former companions
I go to school with Rassilon products and he's really cool and nice
fourth