It’s actually crazy. Sashas comments are so on the money. Some balls are better than others of course. I know a lot of college players notice it too. The ITA just changed their ball provider to Dunlop too last summer. The Dunlop ATP ball has got to be one of the worst tennis balls on the planet. We call it the dog ball 🫠. Quality is so bad. But it’s not just Dunlop either. Quality overall has gone down a ton unfortunately.
At my club the Dunlop AOs are by far the best. The Wilson, head and Babolat are the dog balls, uneven halves, you can see the seam and they bounce all over the place. I guess it depends what factory they come from more than the brand
I would not be surprised if companies in the regular lines not the super premium expensive models all are made in one factory and the plan is probably to make the balls play like the Chinese Magicorange ball, the top Chinese model that comes in multiple colors including a Rainbow option. These Magicorange are from what I saw in a Walmart that has these balls in bags mainly in the pet section as they are at 50% at most but use a felt that is made more for other sports like the Archery felt that is just a thinner felt or Air hocky where the felt is more compressed together using both. Trying to make the normal balls to be only as good as the top Chinese brand is wrong and using too thick of felt is leading to an issue where eventually the brands will make only this Chinese brand better. This is why I bought off Amazon, the Penn Extra duty Championship models in a 12 pack becuse I wanted a more durable ball then what the current models normal are like even if this ball starts off way too hard to start out as the Penn Extra Duty championship have been known to do. It used to be in the 2000's when I played last the Willson US Open or Dunlop Pro were the best with Penn Regular Duty Championship next and some of the worst were same brand but the Penn Heavy Duty Championship because the brand made these specific Penn balls of the with too much air to the balls in the 2000's, a trend that has continued to this day but due to how bad all balls leak pressure from the air on in the inside now, the Penn Extra Duty Championship is the way to go.
the thing is, tournament balls are not the same as off the shelf box and what one can see is those 'heavy duty' balls which fluff up and become slow quickly. however what I see is also that women balls are not same as for the men competition. ladies would mostly be powerless if they played with those 'heavy duty' balls used for men competition. it's not just quality, it's also the manipulation of conditions. and this is nothing new, this has been done for maybe last 20 years. I remember when Nadal successfully upped his performance at Wimbledon thanks to slow balls being used with fluff which awfully braked through the air
It has been discussed multiple times before and it is intentional by the atp . Look at there choices of ball now even on a grass court tournament in Newport. They choose penn balls vs what was choosen previously by the tournament , which was diadem and of course slazenger at wimbeldon . It is all about the money and Wimbeldon sold out first . It began with the color then everything else . How is that Best for tennis tournaments .
I was impressed with his diction, but not his research. He said in two different meetings that balls are 30-50% slower. If that were the case then average first serves would have fallen to about 70mph (from 118mph), which obviously hasn't happened. Mpetschi is serving at 140mph today, so if that is with 40% slower balls, Zverev's comment implies he would be serving at 196mph with previous balls. Again, definitely not the case. In fact most serves and rally balls haven't changed much in pace, probably more like 3-4% if any difference.
@oliverdesouza5741 he said on average thou, implying over a set amount of strokes the balls deflates faster and slows it down. In tournaments they have new balls fairly often thus they do not degrade as much, but over the expected lifetime of a ball they degrade too a point they average 30-50% less speed within that time frame. That is my take. Which is still terrible. It reflects badly on the sport as a whole, when the material is of such low quality and is being actively promoted by the tour.
@oliverdesouza5741 Probably the balls start to slow down more in the middle of the flight and around the bounce, not that much in the first few meters.
Tennis influencers like you should make review videos on different tennis balls. It can help affect/force different brands to produce higher quality balls to compete against each other.
It won't make a difference e when strings and rackets are designed to work with these slow balls . The game style must change back by consumer demand to an all court serve volley blend game .
@@derekpappas1556 serve volley is never coming back, has not only to do with speed, but with being able to make more extreme angles by double handed backhands, and racket tech.
@@alfasud1972 while it may not fully come back. It is occuring back in part the more the player runs to the net than staying in the back . Doubles tennis is a varient of serve volley all court skill sets . The key to doubles skills , is serve volley . The more people play all court attacking tennis the more doubles will be viewed and participated in .
Was recently at the aus open and this video came at a perfect time. Was dumbfounded at how all the players seemed to have shifted towards hitting the ball significantly flatter and deeper. Some players had seemingly changed their techniques to help accomodate hitting a flatter, more powerful ball. My gut feeling was this was caused by the balls so this video confirms these worries. It’s cool watching everyone trying to blast the ball, but it seriously takes away the variability in shot selection and play styles across the tour
It's also going to significantly shorten these pro's careers. The human body cannot endure that kind of high level stress over and over again, endlessly, forever without eventually breaking down. Really pisses me off how the ATP/WTA treats the athletes like disposable commodities. These athletes are the best the world. Aside from the obvious human factor (as a baseline, they should be treated humanely), from a business perspective the tours should do everything they can to take care of them, nurture their health and prolong their careers.
Tell this to Courentin Moutet lol! And what about Learner Tien, the super kid from the States who just beat Moutet at the AO. Okay, he can also make quite powerful forehand shots when need be but anyway he is not your serve bot nor powerful baseliner. These guys have learned to play versatile game even if the balls slow down more and more. Maybe everyone should focus more on versatility now and forget that power obsession for good.
@ This has no effect on points getting longer and longer. The reason most pros are relying on huge shots more often is to finish points quickly to try to save themselves from endless physical grind. Yes, versatility is great, but that doesn't offset the slower balls and slower courts. Cumulatively, this breaks down the body.
During one of the camera positions, a ball boy was shown holding a ball in his hand and the camera caught the ball threads, and I was astounded at how bad the ball looked. The pros should never play with balls with quality like that
I’m used to play old balls like 1 week or 2 old or until it dies or almost dead, that’s why we notice new balls feels 1 week old even before the set finish, 2 sets and it feels like it went to a water heavy dead. Now we can only tolerate few days to 1week old ball before using a new one
Exactly what I have been feeling. Also I have pressure-less balls for my ball machine and they seem to feel better compared to regular balls that are played for a set. Even though the pressure less balls are being played for a very long time.
Bro...they change the balls every 6 games...they used to. Did they stop doing that? The balls played with are supposed to be and they're supposed to keep changing them out. Also...the players pick what balls they want to use from those anyways. The balls must be horrible now if they're going to crap within 6 games.
No way! I won’t play more than 2 sets with a can of balls before they aren’t worth using. Your game becomes different and it’s very hard on your body using old balls.
I agree I played last week with some penns and they seemed dead right away. I would bounce the ball before serving with my left hand and the ball wouldn't even come back up to my hand. It was noticeably dead and totally threw me off 😵💫
I'm glad you brought up a topic that most people wouldn't think about or a selling headline. All part of the game matter. COVID was 5 years ago and while I understand the supply issues during 2020, into 2021 and even into 2022, we're 5 years removed. Seems like most companies realized they could get away with cheaper products at the same price and make more revenue.
Yes, on almost every aspect of our lives, why I paid up for some items and got crap like my laptop computer where the Keyboard died on parts of it becuse they made the jack for charging/plugging in such a way only the model that came with the computer would fit in and mine due to no QC would come nearly dead where others are big enough to crack the aluminum on the Keyboard and cause keys to die with the charger being dead/nearly dead from day 1 and having to wiggle to get it to work. So, I just use a cheap Logitech keyboard with my laptop not trusting no name brands from China or wasting money on other more expensive brands should a keyboard not work on my laptop due to only wanting to use the built in keyboard. My computer is nice though besides that fact well made and heavier duty, it is Windows getting crappier.
That is what the companies like to hear! "I would pay more for better quality". Downgrade the main line of balls so that you can later sell a "premium" quality ball, which was the older good ones, for a higher price. People with a lower budget will still stay at the normalized lower quality balls where the companies will now make a bigger profit from.
One may need to go to trinity balls to get a thicker ball core . There is still pressure in it but the core is thicker for a stiffer feel till warn in . Also for other balls get a pressurized tube . The more they see people fighting back , they either change or die . This is your sport not theirs .
Me and my GF loved the Extra Duty Normal Dunlop balls and we tried the ATP Dunlops recently and we absolutely despised them. Ironically enough, way less pain but the balls REFUSE to get any pace on them unless youre positively swinging out of your shoes. Really hoping something changes soon.
Also, to note, I went from absolutely loving my Radical Pro with the old balls to (for now) needing to go to slightly more powerful options and a little more weight too. Its a palpable difference when it comes to these balls
I played today, after basically not playing for more than a year, with the ATP Dunlops and I really liked them, but I know I did so because they were so slow, and the court I play is pretty fast, so it allowed me to feel the ball and have consistency. They felt soft too, so definitely right now I prefer them vs the Costco Penns.
@ they for sure feel giga-soft thats about the only thing I liked about them so far. Theyre pretty easy on the arm, but as someone who doesnt even traditionally have arm issues Id rather just have pacier balls personally
I played with Pro Penn for a few months and usually each can had one ball that couldn't even bounce straight because of imperfections around the seam. I would show them to people and say "I don't think anyone has ever looked at this ball." They were terrible. edit: I even got out clippers to clip off the material where the seams came together because there were chunks on the seam. With that said, I've played with some Pro Penns recently and they've been fine. The Penn Tours were never malformed and bounced okay.
@@TennCom I could see some pro players switching to lighter and lighter yet stiffer and stiffer racquets to hit the ball quicker/harder to where some older players are using the same size as the old models but are as light as 270 grams maybe even as low as 260 grams a weight that would be common on better 26 inch Jr models on the higher weight end or some of the graphite budget/beginner models being 260--280 grams. I could also see pro players using models so flexy in the lineup these brands models are mainly recommended for beginners.
I used to buy Pro Penn’s by the case because their quality and longevity was excellent. The last 2 cases I got have been average at best and in many cases poor quality. Normally now, 1 in 3 are dead out of the can. So I’ll be looking for a new ball. And, yes, Pro’s never had seam chunks prior to 2020. QC is in the toilet at Penn.
Why do we have to ask the players for the properties of tennis balls? Are the power, pressure, speed, air resistance, leakage, ball temperature non-measurable quantities? Aren't the balls tested on these regularly? Is just changing the material allowed arbitrarily? What is the ATP doing? I didn't get why something has changed and how it is allowed.
That might explain why the older guys are really not adjusting well. I just can't believe that they would skip out on quality so much even at the pro level. I hope a new company comes in and really picks up the slack. I'm getting tired of junk. Everywhere I look these days it's just paying more money and receiving trash.
Yeah, about the only ones people online are saying good about are the Technifibre top level where they do QC and the way overpriced Fuzzy Yellow Balls where if you buy the latter online directly from them or Amazon they will keep hounding you to sign up for the Fuzzy Yellow Balls program you have to pay for each month to use after the free month trial from your ball purchase comes up and can't renew can only start over at beginner using this a code from another ball purchase, so frustrating.
@@aaronaragon7838 Yes at least some time off between the Main ATP/WTA and the final big tournaments, only a few sports/events have such little time off for competitors like top levels of Tennis that are as demanding or more as most are sports that less demanding on the body. So yeah the big non ATP/WTA events are just showing off now, placing enough out there and with rules forcing by the ATP/WTA players to play in some of these non ATP/WTA events just to keep playing on the ATP/WTA. The other problem is that Tennis the companies tried to make it harder for the power players by slowing courts down, slowing the balls down used in the league and in the opens but this just made the sport even harder for the non power players to the point you will in the ATP/WTA only have super power players on the courts in the top 100, maybe a speed player with good power but not super power who can use the slow ball/court to their advantage. I could see pro players using some thicker round strings in Polyester, for in cusses or mains almost rarely both. the rare pro players use who do not break gut/nylon gut in some cases, or even some multifilament strings in crosses or mains with the main type used being the multifilament that is just a nylon gut reinforced with Kevlar to combat the major Dunlop models the ATP/WTA is forcing the players to use and cut down on the fuzzy issue by using less power or thicker round polyester strings to combat these fuzzy and similar bad ball issues that have cropped up even more since after 2020 and the new cheaper manufacturing came out while supply chains were down that companies for almost everything in the world have kept with only a few exceptions where you are being forced to use X due to new laws.
Thanks so much for recognising and posting this. I've been playing district competition, on both hardcourt and lawn, since the early 90s. The balls just don't come through anywhere near as much as in the past - even since the mid 2010s. They are furry, uneven, and wasted after one set. This, combined with widespread use of poly and multifilament strings, is making the district game a mess. The all-court player will soon be a thing of the past - including any form of serve and volleying, or single-handed backhand. Backhand slice is now a defunct shot because the ball simply doesn't bounce high enough. Only a bashing poorly balanced shot is rewarded. It is causing injuries, particularly shoulder and tendons, now in players in their thirties.
its harrowing to hear "pay more for better balls" when the prices have been steadily increasing year over year. Here in SEA we barely have any other options now cause for some reason everyone decided to just stock up on those Dunlop ATPs and they definitely feel a lot worse compared to the old Dunlop Elites.
Sturdavants has the Technifibre balls. (Club and court). If you want to try something different. When i play on a dirty winter court in 43deg i just use the low QA costco balls. Hope you hit at least once outside this long weekend.
Wilson have gotten back their QC on Wilson US Opens, but Penn (of all level) & Dunlop have gotten significantly worse post-COVID. The problem of Penn and Dunlop are different too, which leads to further inconsistencies. Penn balls in general have terrible quality control, even the Pro Penn. The manufacturing method they've adopted in the last few years leaves a very obvious "notch" in the rubber connection between the seams that they glue the two rubber pieces. Dunlop, especially the Dunlop ATP now uses a lower quality felt that wears unevenly, and fluffs up and tear off the ball after relatively short amount of play.
Wilson Tour are always trustable here in India. Slightly more expensive but they are all soo durable & get fluffy and heavy. I like them as I can compete against big servers with those balls hehehe
This has been an on going issue with the tour since the early 2000s. The tour has been making a concerted effort to slow down the game as much as possible because they don't want the game to turn into serve fests (the 1980s and 1990s were like this). It's just now they have gone full speed all the way to the extreme end on the other side, where courts and balls are now slow because they are trying to balance the speed of the game versus athletes that literally didn't exist 20-30 years ago.
i am so glad for your video. as a recreational player, i find it hard to tell someone else that there is something wrong with dunlop ATP balls, especially at the recreational level where majority of the players benefit from the slowed down balls, and as a hard hitter i just sound like im blaming the balls for my poor performance
Brilliant video explaining situation so well. I was curious about the massive difference between the loss of power with a player like meddy and then Carlos and sinner. Very well made
As a coach, used Penn balls are a joke. Especially the Costco ones, they are worn out after an hour. We open Wilson US Opens every 3 months for our teaching carts and the balls are good for months. Diadem balls last long as well. Other brands I pull out of my cart.
I was away from tennis for decades, then came back 5-6 years ago. I was using those same Penn balls, and I couldn't believe how bad they were. It used to be that balls became unusable when they eventually lost pressure. These balls were bald and unusable, like you said, after one set. I started planning on one can per set, which is pretty crazy.
I switched to the Tretorn MicroX (pressureless), they last a loooooot longer. As a rec player, I've noticed this new trend. The new balls now seems to last no more than 1 hour.
Love this video! It would great to know more about the production of tennis balls, why they changed, and what are the new materials in them. Great to hear that conversation from pro players.
My friends and I have noticed this too, especially with Grand Prix and ATP Dunlops. Pro Penn Marathons seem to bounce lower. Prices have gone up already, but now we are paying for worse balls. I recently tried Diadem Premier and they seem to be good (so far).
I thought maybe it was because it's winter, but my case of penn balls from Costco I've gotten recently are significantly worse than I've ever had them. They don't last nearly as long, and often one is immediately worse than the others.
After I bought a case that had 3 completely unpressurized cans I stopped buying the Costco Penns. They're a waste of money and materials. I've been using Diadem Extra Duty almost exclusively for over a year and they're amazing. Consistent and durable, lasting for multiple sessions and still leaving marks on hard court.
To tech these companies a lesson send them back . Interesting how the choices of these ball manufacturers create more waste in throughing out slow dead like balls . They don't get it until you stop buying it . They will all try to act equally and call it the standard .
@@kevinlloyd3047 Diadem produce harder balls and I guess it is becoming more necc . Balls at ATP sponsored tournaments are going to be part of the corporate cabal and to the highest bidder to follow the agenda .
This explains so much. Every can we open now just seems flat and dead. I personally use Wilson triniti balls and they feel like trampolines now by comparison. Hopefully the ball companies get their act together
Right after lockdowns, my buddy and I went to play the clay open nationals in Fort Lauderdale. When we got there, we were given a can of fresh wilson us open regular duty balls for practice. Within 25 minutes, we got one of the balls to actually break, and the other two were the size of soccer balls. We thought this was just a bad can, until we came the next day for practice and broke another ball, this time within 15 minutes of practice. We had never broken balls like that in the past, and it only would happen after playing with balls for over 5 or so days, not with fresh cans. The quality is horrible and continues to be horrible.
The types of injuries attributed to the balls can often be traced back to poor technique. I agree that a lack of consistency over a set can leave players guessing how the balls will behave. About five years ago, with the help of a coach, I rebuilt my technique from the ground up. I experienced pain transitioning from a classic (continental) forehand to a modern forehand due to the significant differences in timing and spacing. At the ATP level, sensitivity to ball speed and drag is likely heightened. Personally, I recall that Slazenger balls in the 1990s were relatively fast and consistent in quality. However, the post-COVID Slazengers are noticeably worse. The variation between different brands is extreme. I also recall ATP and WTA players expressing a desire for greater uniformity in the tennis ball brands used on tour.
Greate video! Looking forward to seeing a video about João Fonseca, his setup and your opinion about his future! I already consider him one of the hardest hitting players of the tour along with alcaraz and sinner. Greetings from Brasil!
Babolat Golds are super fast, Slazenger hard court balls are great too & extremely consistent...whereas..Dunlop OV are truly horrible in every regard by comparison..yet its allowed at the highest level!? I thought that the ATP & WTA would be able to control anissue as simple as this one at the behest its players...
Good video and good analysis. But you should add the sources for where you got these infos (I'm especially interested in where you get the spec updates for the pros) (:
Zverev on the money. THese balls are not just ruining tournaments, also ruining the game style at grass root levels. Hate them, but love the game. We normally used Babolat RG initiaaly, followed by Wilson RG (We play on a Clay court). Have been using TF X-One for past couple of years, currently the only one that rewards the shots upto some extend.
Honestly The change in quality of balls over The last few years is so big it is insane how it is not talked about more, it is not just pro players But every tennis player who is affected by The worse quality and it makes The game significantly less enjoyable when you buy balls and they are just dead even out of the can, and then having to be replaced after 1 hour of hitting…
Great video! Its true and the game is getting worse for sure. There should also be more variety of surfaces and balls on the tour. Everything is slow now.
I too have experienced this in all the coaching sessions I run. It is particularly noticeable with the more skillful players who are able to comprehend and apply heavy spins. I have switched to the Technifibre X-ONE ball. It is, imo, the loveliest ball on the market at present. It is a little more expensive, but due to the superior rubber and felt used in its construction, it lasts 3 - 4 times longer, so actually works out cheaper in the long run.
OK, and what you didn't even mention is that actual tournament balls are NOT the same as those sold to general public. For example, Head balls have a small green label "Tournament select" on the cartoon box, everything else including bar codes being exactly the same and cans are identical, but quality of the balls is drastically different. So if the pro's are complaining about quality, not sure what the rec players should do, most of the balls are borderline unusable despite price increases.
Played tennis for 12 years, i opened a Costco pen can the other day and was figuring out which ball to serve, 1 was flat, and the other 2 were like in between bouncy and not. Miss the old feeling of the bounce where I had to really work hard to get to the ball and was rewarded for getting there
At my club that I run, we decided to switch to the Trinity balls. Last longer, and they don’t fuzz up as much. Granted they’re little harder, but they play well even if you don’t like the noise. What I have noticed with the more traditional balls, is that either the rubber and the pressure is of a lower quality, or that they are staying on the strings longer with the use of full polyester string set ups/rackets being designed for poly use to grip the ball more. I think the combo destroying the pressure which is also causing the balls to grip and stay on the court longer, causing them to fluff more. Not sure playing with all these rackets is deadening the balls quicker than they used to or if it’s just lower quality tennis ball, or a combo.
I have tried a ton of different companies in the past few years and this is very true. The best one so far as far as what they used to be are Diadem Premier balls. Wilson Trinity Pro is quite descant too but people usually don't like to play with pressureless balls. Otherwise over 20 brands were all much slower. Great video and production. Cheers, M
I've been using Diadem Premier Extra Duty Tennis Balls and they seem to fluff less than practically every other ball. I play USTA 5.0. I'm 48 years old and played D1 a while ago.
Amazing video. My coach uses Costco penn balls and these play so inconsistently out of the cans. Especially in the colder months here in California. How would you describe the overall effect that temperature and climate has on low quality balls?
We all play differently and with different preferences depending on our style. Me and my tennis partners like the Dunlop ATP Extra Duty. We started playing them last year. They do get fluffy, but has the advantage of keeping the grip for spin, control, at the cost of speed of course. Consistency is more important factor so you can adjust your play and style.
100% agree with Zverev’s assessment. I was able to locate some pre-Covid tubes and those balls would bounce higher and last more than twice as long as current stock. Additionally, when they eventually went bad they didn’t feel like one was hitting a rock.
Couldnt agree more Beckett and its something Ive noticed personally when just hitting with some high level players or playing league matches with the Penn or in our speak Head Tour balls. Having to play 2 3 set matches in the span of about 3 hours with 3 or if we're lucky 4 balls per court normally 3 courts of which being the Tour or the Tour XT the way they die off and fluff up is horrible. Lead me to change racket as I just had nothing on the ball very quickly. Had to dump my control sticks and go back to my aeros I used in my junior days and the change was insane. Not only my racket has changed but also the spec of what I would go towards just to try and get more out of what we as tennis players of all levels have to deal with. I know youve liked the Dunlop rackets in the past both the CX and FX lines and hope you get to try out the new SX line this coming year in particular the SX 300 Tour I feel like it has a lot you would like good blend of an Aero 98 and the TFX1 without the awful stringbed consistency on the TFX1. Love the vids and keep it up. Might give the Gold balls a try soon.
Whenever I hit with the Costco penns, it last 1 set or minimum a set and a half. I would pay a little bit more for a higher quality ball. Coincidentally, the Dunlop balls are cheaper than the penns.
I have noticed it last year untill now. I thought I bought a few bad badges (I buy with my hitting partners in bulk) but this explains the consitency of the bad quality. What a shame for tennis as a whole.
It's crazy how bad the quality of those Dunlop balls is. Last week I bought a new tube, and half an hour into playing we lost one ball. An hour and a half later the two remaining balls popped, with about a quarter of each ball completely split open on the surface.
The propenns to me have been some of the most consistent, but the regular penns lose half their bounce the first hour you play with them. I got a case of regular penns once where every single ball was flat. The Wilson US open balls are good but I've noticed they lose their felt extremely quickly lately, to the point that they pick up speed dramatically after a short time.
It's mostly the fluff that has gotten worse on all the different brands i tried. I found a remedy to at least extend the life of the balls times 2 and that is shaving hairy balls 😂. Not digging deep into the felt, just shaving of the excess fluff that is sticking out way too far. I measures the weight of the ball before and after and no change in weight. It takes a bit of time, but improves the ball
Even on a club level, it is "visible" how balls are changing. Dunlop Clay balls after 40 minutes are dead, Technifibre are like hitting a rock... The most significant issue is that balls are getting non-elastic and that cause many arm issues (since we are not changing balls every seven games, but every few hours)
Same for Penn Heavy Duty Championship they are the proper bounce but are hitting like a rock worse then most but have the air leak issue most brands have so, being like a rock helps this issue out as they become normal.
I’ve found that Diadem tennis balls are super fast and don’t fluff up that much compared to other tennis balls. However, they seem to become heavier than any other tennis ball I’ve tried in the rain.
I started playing tennis in 2020, and my tennis coach loved these Wilson balls, and I remember somewhere on the can that the balls were made in 2019. Fast forward today, and my high school coach opened a can of the exact same branded Wilson balls, and all 3 of them bounced like a baseball. The better I get and the stronger I get just from growing up, the slower the ball goes, and overall I just find so many inconsistencies with timing. While it may be my own error, it doesn’t really make sense that the better I get the worse I get at hitting the ball 😭 (btw I’m a 5.2 UTR and I’m a baseliner)
The quality of balls started to tank before covid when the ATP switched from Penn to Dunlop for their official balls. ProPenns have had the largest quality drop imo. Give me a Dunlop ATP Extra Duty core with Penn felt and it will be the best ball currently. Wilson US Opens are still good though their durability isn't that great.
Last year I’d get one can of Wilson USO that were perfect then another can the balls felt dead after one hour of rec play. The consistency has been a concern.
I never even realized this was happening but it makes so much sense looking back on it. Probably why tennis has become less and less fun for me since covid. I used to be good at redirecting pace, but now even on my volleys it’s not enough just to block it, unless my wrist were made of titanium. It’s a bummer because volleying is one of my favorite parts of the game
I do enjoy watching the current brand of tennis. We are seeing players learn to make more extreme angles with their ground strokes rather than trying to hit winners out the back of the court. Some players are becoming more intelligent with how they vary the speed, spin, and height of their shots to induce mistakes from their opponents. Plus, seeing talents like Alcaraz just mashing the ball as hard as possible is exciting! While I theoretically would pay more for a better quality ball, I also don't want to buy into that idea. As mentioned, the idea was for ball companies to change rubber was to reduce costs -- meaning they probably are making more profit on the new balls. The important part is to maintain healthy expectations for what products we believe are acceptable, and to protest effectively when mistreated as customers. I think it's excellent that Zverev has been such an articulate and outspoken critic of this situation. If we demand better quality balls, the market will deliver them. If they are too expensive, change your strings and keep using bad balls while asking for better ones at reasonable prices.
We have the Hydrogen Proton ball machine. The Dunlops, Wilsons, and Penns last about 3-4 hour long sessions before they are useless. The balls we have standardized on are the Technifibres. They will last 3 to 5 times longer than most others.
It must be tough playing with slow balls on clay in a grand slam… it takes hell out of you… imagine playing 5 sets, he will be at disadvantage for his next round match
Not when the strings and rackets change or tensions change . If a player is swinging harder or faster , the ball speed mY look the same . The injuries increase to adapt . These buisnesses are no longer people . They are in it for the profit margins now , not the sport .
@@derekpappas1556 Would a ball machine being fed different balls not be able to objectively measure how much they slow down during flight and after bounce?
I've started using pressureless/trainer balls. They take 6 months to go flat and don't fluff. They are definitely heavier off the racket but travel through the court much better.
I took a couple of years off tennis and recently started playing again regularly. I have a set of TK298 18/20 Pro Stocks from when Head used to offer custom-made rackets to the general public. My current string setup is 56 lbs on the mains (RPM Blast) and 54 lbs on the crosses (Wilson NXT). With the new balls, I can’t get any depth unless I really force my shots. I’m switching to a full bed of RPM Soft at 52 lbs to get more pop and to give my shoulder a break. It’s crazy-if this continues, I’ll probably have to move to a new racket with a much more open string pattern within the year. We’ve been using Babolat balls at my club, and they just stop dead on the court. It’s absolutely insane!
I played for a very poor high school program, we reused the same crappy balls over and over and over and over until they were just too dead. This was a decade ago -- the balls never got fluffy like the ones the pros are using now unless they got super wet several times.
I love the ATP balls. I am a 4.0 player with a pretty good serve. The balls get slow after about 6 or 8 games and then a serve advantage fades and the rallies get longer. There is more time for longer rallies and and more time for the play to develop which makes the game more fun.
Love your videos, big fan… but I somehow notice the background music today is a little too loud with higher pitch that’s little annoying to hear especially when I want to listen to your words clearly. Hope you can consider this when choosing background music in the future. Thanks
I started playing in 2019. But would’ve loved to feel the difference of balls in 2015 for example. The US open extra duty for me is still my fav. Which stays good for a couple sessions at least.
Working at a tennis club for years. Used to source the ProPenn marathons because they were great for teaching. Would get so many hours out of them for rec players 1.0-4.0. We switched to Penn Tours because they were cheaper and honestly they don’t play much different. When I find old tennis balls from other people who leave them, like Us Opens, atp dunlops, penn 1’s (the Costco ball he refers to) etc. I just immediately toss them because they are fluffy, flat, sometimes the rubber is “stale”. The PPenn Marathons too started having ridiculous quality control issues. I know Covid put a massive strain on the supply chain - it was impossible to get the color/low pressure training tennis balls for months. And now it’s possible that as things get back to normal, companies think we won’t notice and profit the difference. I would absolutely pay more for a high quality ball. Better hitting session, more predictable. Tennis depends on a sense of predictability. The court dimensions, net heights are all standardized. I think the QC of the ball needs to be better for sure.
Will this affect the junior level of players who play the usta tournaments and junior itf tournaments, or not really as something like this would be more noticeable for the pros?
I think it's noticeably for most levels. Of course power isn't as important until you hit 4.5+, as consistency rules the lower levels, but I'm seeing plenty of long, 3 hour plus slog-fests at my local tournaments. The inconsistency between the balls is an issue too. Most tournaments allow for one tube of balls per match, yet, balls can easily be completely worn out after only one set. I think worn out balls and slow conditions tend to favor "pushers" at rec levels.
@@TennCominteresting, as a pusher i actually like lively balls, guys with powerful and long strokes can do damage even with dead balls and the slower ball is easier for them to time. Conversely i can't get any pace on a dead ball with my short strokes and my opponents tend to make more errors with lively balls
I only play occasionally now, but I have 12 Dunlop 3 balls and they just don't get fuzzy or loose their toughness at all. My newer ones are in bad condition after one session on the other hand...
Especially given Zverev's comments, I think the best outcome would be some stricter ball standardizations by the ITF, or whatever mess of governing bodies we are subject to.
@@TennComI fully agree with this, I don't even understand how they haven't done this yet. I mean tennis is a millimeter sport. A ball that is still on the line is a winner and can win you the match, but can sail long 1 cm if the ball is just a tiny bit different. The ball is a huge part of the equation.
I don't see so much of the fluffiness but I told my coach I'm convinced the balls now lose pressure. Some days after an hour hit my shoulder feels like it has been hit with sledge hammer. I never ever had shoulder issues until after covid.
Thanks for the content. Yes, I play on clay pretty much all the time and would buy Wilson Roland Garros balls by the case. Noticed significant drop in playability/duirability with the last case I bought in the back end of 2023. Switched to the Gold since and is definitely better.
It's true. Only the Wilson US Open extra duty keeps its playing quality for long - tho it goes through a fluffier phase after ~8 games before becoming really good again after about another 8 games. (5.0 level ref)
Crazy how baseball basketball and most major sports have a unified ball they use and not multiple brands. Tennis def needs to fix this and it’s not talked about enough.
Dunlop forte balls quality went down during covid. Fluffing out, tearing. Could not get any power, dead balls. Changed rackets as well. The balls have changed back to a better quality last year.
I’d really like to see some independent comparison done between sealed old stock balls and some new stock produced in the last 2 years. Would be interesting to try to reproduce some of the metrics Zverev was quoting I assume from the manufacturers? How did the rubber compound change? Was it a change in the manufacturing process, or change in the materials, or change in design (ex thinner shell)? I have a hard time believing the ATP don’t have access to this information. I get why they want to use a ball that’s easily commercially available for marketing reasons but if they’re having these quality issues then maybe they should up the spec. Regulation MLB balls are not cheap, despite the need for dozens of them per game. Ditto for most any other sport.
Tricky problem to fix because the official tournament balls should also be the same as the consumer ball, right? So the quality drops for everyone and balls need to be price-competitive. This sucks. Glad this video exists, I feel like most viewers are unaware of how significant and frequent these equipment or surface levels changes can adjust the meta of tennis and suddenly favor someone else. Good video!
I use regular Penns from for months and it doesn't fuzz like the balls you showed. I know certain tennis court surfaces are different from one court to another fuzzing or balding the tennis balls faster than most. That's my humble opinion as a coach that travels to different tennis court locations and surfaces.
I absolutely agree with Zverev. Especially Dunlop Fort balls. They have become extremely bad especially in South Africa leading to many injuries on the club and Provincial level.
Fantastic video. Yeah of course we noticed that. I mean we always played with the Head Tour in Austria for our Team competition and the balls were so bad. In the first 20 minutes they were hard like bricks and went flying. Then for 15 minutes they were actually good. After that they went fluffy and they were no power anymore. Pretty similar to the Dunlop ATP. For me the best two balls are the DIADEM Balls ((can play 6 hours) and the Babolat Team. But I think HEAD is actually addressing the issue as the balls got better in the last 6 months. At least I think that.
It’s actually crazy. Sashas comments are so on the money. Some balls are better than others of course. I know a lot of college players notice it too. The ITA just changed their ball provider to Dunlop too last summer. The Dunlop ATP ball has got to be one of the worst tennis balls on the planet. We call it the dog ball 🫠. Quality is so bad. But it’s not just Dunlop either. Quality overall has gone down a ton unfortunately.
At my club the Dunlop AOs are by far the best. The Wilson, head and Babolat are the dog balls, uneven halves, you can see the seam and they bounce all over the place.
I guess it depends what factory they come from more than the brand
Dunlop Fort is pretty good though, it maintains its pressure and doesn't get sloe or fluffy. Wilson, on the other hand, has really deteriorated.
I would not be surprised if companies in the regular lines not the super premium expensive models all are made in one factory and the plan is probably to make the balls play like the Chinese Magicorange ball, the top Chinese model that comes in multiple colors including a Rainbow option. These Magicorange are from what I saw in a Walmart that has these balls in bags mainly in the pet section as they are at 50% at most but use a felt that is made more for other sports like the Archery felt that is just a thinner felt or Air hocky where the felt is more compressed together using both. Trying to make the normal balls to be only as good as the top Chinese brand is wrong and using too thick of felt is leading to an issue where eventually the brands will make only this Chinese brand better. This is why I bought off Amazon, the Penn Extra duty Championship models in a 12 pack becuse I wanted a more durable ball then what the current models normal are like even if this ball starts off way too hard to start out as the Penn Extra Duty championship have been known to do. It used to be in the 2000's when I played last the Willson US Open or Dunlop Pro were the best with Penn Regular Duty Championship next and some of the worst were same brand but the Penn Heavy Duty Championship because the brand made these specific Penn balls of the with too much air to the balls in the 2000's, a trend that has continued to this day but due to how bad all balls leak pressure from the air on in the inside now, the Penn Extra Duty Championship is the way to go.
ha ha ditto
the thing is, tournament balls are not the same as off the shelf box and what one can see is those 'heavy duty' balls which fluff up and become slow quickly. however what I see is also that women balls are not same as for the men competition. ladies would mostly be powerless if they played with those 'heavy duty' balls used for men competition. it's not just quality, it's also the manipulation of conditions. and this is nothing new, this has been done for maybe last 20 years. I remember when Nadal successfully upped his performance at Wimbledon thanks to slow balls being used with fluff which awfully braked through the air
I'm glad people are finally speaking about this. It's insane how there are no regs around the balls. Every other sport does
Other then the size and weight there are no rules to regulate the balls more for the top Open tournaments that are not in WTP/WTA or in ATP/WTP.
It has been discussed multiple times before and it is intentional by the atp . Look at there choices of ball now even on a grass court tournament in Newport. They choose penn balls vs what was choosen previously by the tournament , which was diadem and of course slazenger at wimbeldon . It is all about the money and Wimbeldon sold out first . It began with the color then everything else . How is that Best for tennis tournaments .
There are regulations. Size, weight, height of bounce on concrete.
Impressed with how articulate Zverev is on the subject. Hope the ATP listens.
He's on the players council and was investigating this issue
He always is about tennis, got tons of respect for this guy
I was impressed with his diction, but not his research. He said in two different meetings that balls are 30-50% slower. If that were the case then average first serves would have fallen to about 70mph (from 118mph), which obviously hasn't happened. Mpetschi is serving at 140mph today, so if that is with 40% slower balls, Zverev's comment implies he would be serving at 196mph with previous balls. Again, definitely not the case. In fact most serves and rally balls haven't changed much in pace, probably more like 3-4% if any difference.
@oliverdesouza5741 he said on average thou, implying over a set amount of strokes the balls deflates faster and slows it down. In tournaments they have new balls fairly often thus they do not degrade as much, but over the expected lifetime of a ball they degrade too a point they average 30-50% less speed within that time frame. That is my take. Which is still terrible. It reflects badly on the sport as a whole, when the material is of such low quality and is being actively promoted by the tour.
@oliverdesouza5741 Probably the balls start to slow down more in the middle of the flight and around the bounce, not that much in the first few meters.
Tennis influencers like you should make review videos on different tennis balls. It can help affect/force different brands to produce higher quality balls to compete against each other.
It won't make a difference e when strings and rackets are designed to work with these slow balls . The game style must change back by consumer demand to an all court serve volley blend game .
@@derekpappas1556 serve volley is never coming back, has not only to do with speed, but with being able to make more extreme angles by double handed backhands, and racket tech.
Intuitive tennis did this
@@alfasud1972 while it may not fully come back. It is occuring back in part the more the player runs to the net than staying in the back . Doubles tennis is a varient of serve volley all court skill sets . The key to doubles skills , is serve volley . The more people play all court attacking tennis the more doubles will be viewed and participated in .
I did some of them! But yeah you are right that’s a good idea!
Was recently at the aus open and this video came at a perfect time. Was dumbfounded at how all the players seemed to have shifted towards hitting the ball significantly flatter and deeper. Some players had seemingly changed their techniques to help accomodate hitting a flatter, more powerful ball. My gut feeling was this was caused by the balls so this video confirms these worries. It’s cool watching everyone trying to blast the ball, but it seriously takes away the variability in shot selection and play styles across the tour
It's also going to significantly shorten these pro's careers. The human body cannot endure that kind of high level stress over and over again, endlessly, forever without eventually breaking down.
Really pisses me off how the ATP/WTA treats the athletes like disposable commodities. These athletes are the best the world. Aside from the obvious human factor (as a baseline, they should be treated humanely), from a business perspective the tours should do everything they can to take care of them, nurture their health and prolong their careers.
Tell this to Courentin Moutet lol! And what about Learner Tien, the super kid from the States who just beat Moutet at the AO. Okay, he can also make quite powerful forehand shots when need be but anyway he is not your serve bot nor powerful baseliner. These guys have learned to play versatile game even if the balls slow down more and more. Maybe everyone should focus more on versatility now and forget that power obsession for good.
@ This has no effect on points getting longer and longer. The reason most pros are relying on huge shots more often is to finish points quickly to try to save themselves from endless physical grind. Yes, versatility is great, but that doesn't offset the slower balls and slower courts.
Cumulatively, this breaks down the body.
@@Skirne Not only that, but these tournaments take (aggregated over the year) 85% of all revenue from tennis. The players get peanuts.
During one of the camera positions, a ball boy was shown holding a ball in his hand and the camera caught the ball threads, and I was astounded at how bad the ball looked. The pros should never play with balls with quality like that
I’m used to play old balls like 1 week or 2 old or until it dies or almost dead, that’s why we notice new balls feels 1 week old even before the set finish, 2 sets and it feels like it went to a water heavy dead. Now we can only tolerate few days to 1week old ball before using a new one
Exactly what I have been feeling. Also I have pressure-less balls for my ball machine and they seem to feel better compared to regular balls that are played for a set. Even though the pressure less balls are being played for a very long time.
@@MrEkin03 I like the Triniti balls for normal play if you're not playing all that much they last so so much longer
Bro...they change the balls every 6 games...they used to. Did they stop doing that? The balls played with are supposed to be and they're supposed to keep changing them out. Also...the players pick what balls they want to use from those anyways.
The balls must be horrible now if they're going to crap within 6 games.
No way! I won’t play more than 2 sets with a can of balls before they aren’t worth using. Your game becomes different and it’s very hard on your body using old balls.
Quality checks are also terrible, not rare that 1/3 balls can be dead on opening sometimes
I get that a lot from penn balls.
True its a shame
I agree I played last week with some penns and they seemed dead right away. I would bounce the ball before serving with my left hand and the ball wouldn't even come back up to my hand. It was noticeably dead and totally threw me off 😵💫
I'm glad you brought up a topic that most people wouldn't think about or a selling headline.
All part of the game matter. COVID was 5 years ago and while I understand the supply issues during 2020, into 2021 and even into 2022, we're 5 years removed. Seems like most companies realized they could get away with cheaper products at the same price and make more revenue.
Yes, on almost every aspect of our lives, why I paid up for some items and got crap like my laptop computer where the Keyboard died on parts of it becuse they made the jack for charging/plugging in such a way only the model that came with the computer would fit in and mine due to no QC would come nearly dead where others are big enough to crack the aluminum on the Keyboard and cause keys to die with the charger being dead/nearly dead from day 1 and having to wiggle to get it to work. So, I just use a cheap Logitech keyboard with my laptop not trusting no name brands from China or wasting money on other more expensive brands should a keyboard not work on my laptop due to only wanting to use the built in keyboard. My computer is nice though besides that fact well made and heavier duty, it is Windows getting crappier.
That is what the companies like to hear! "I would pay more for better quality". Downgrade the main line of balls so that you can later sell a "premium" quality ball, which was the older good ones, for a higher price. People with a lower budget will still stay at the normalized lower quality balls where the companies will now make a bigger profit from.
One may need to go to trinity balls to get a thicker ball core . There is still pressure in it but the core is thicker for a stiffer feel till warn in . Also for other balls get a pressurized tube . The more they see people fighting back , they either change or die . This is your sport not theirs .
They'll need two production lines and that's expensive
They are already overpriced for what they are
Me and my GF loved the Extra Duty Normal Dunlop balls and we tried the ATP Dunlops recently and we absolutely despised them. Ironically enough, way less pain but the balls REFUSE to get any pace on them unless youre positively swinging out of your shoes. Really hoping something changes soon.
Also, to note, I went from absolutely loving my Radical Pro with the old balls to (for now) needing to go to slightly more powerful options and a little more weight too. Its a palpable difference when it comes to these balls
Yeah it's weird like i can perfectly happily use the AO balls, though the felt doesn't last long, and then the ATPs are like green dots or something
I played today, after basically not playing for more than a year, with the ATP Dunlops and I really liked them, but I know I did so because they were so slow, and the court I play is pretty fast, so it allowed me to feel the ball and have consistency. They felt soft too, so definitely right now I prefer them vs the Costco Penns.
@ they for sure feel giga-soft thats about the only thing I liked about them so far. Theyre pretty easy on the arm, but as someone who doesnt even traditionally have arm issues Id rather just have pacier balls personally
this video felt like a high quality netflix doc
Also, it is so dangerous for the joints! These balls are killing tennis at all levels!!!
True i had wrist injury and elbow injury since 2021 with Wilson Us Open.
Been playing for 25 years, never had injuries before
@@HonkyMonkyDid you consider the aging factor?
@ i'm 35 not that old yet
@@sach8906 what "aging factor" dude, did you play tennis?
@@nero1375 how did you know?
I played with Pro Penn for a few months and usually each can had one ball that couldn't even bounce straight because of imperfections around the seam. I would show them to people and say "I don't think anyone has ever looked at this ball." They were terrible. edit: I even got out clippers to clip off the material where the seams came together because there were chunks on the seam. With that said, I've played with some Pro Penns recently and they've been fine. The Penn Tours were never malformed and bounced okay.
Oh god I totally forgot about the seem chunks. That's the worst.
@@TennCom I could see some pro players switching to lighter and lighter yet stiffer and stiffer racquets to hit the ball quicker/harder to where some older players are using the same size as the old models but are as light as 270 grams maybe even as low as 260 grams a weight that would be common on better 26 inch Jr models on the higher weight end or some of the graphite budget/beginner models being 260--280 grams. I could also see pro players using models so flexy in the lineup these brands models are mainly recommended for beginners.
I used to buy Pro Penn’s by the case because their quality and longevity was excellent. The last 2 cases I got have been average at best and in many cases poor quality. Normally now, 1 in 3 are dead out of the can. So I’ll be looking for a new ball. And, yes, Pro’s never had seam chunks prior to 2020. QC is in the toilet at Penn.
@@caseysmith544 pro players with 270 gram rackets? Not on the ATP tour, they are mostly 320 to 360 grams for the males.
@@adamcravets5408 Penn balls I have bought lately have been junk.
Why do we have to ask the players for the properties of tennis balls? Are the power, pressure, speed, air resistance, leakage, ball temperature non-measurable quantities? Aren't the balls tested on these regularly? Is just changing the material allowed arbitrarily? What is the ATP doing? I didn't get why something has changed and how it is allowed.
This also happened a couple of decades ago and players stopped using serve and volley.
That might explain why the older guys are really not adjusting well. I just can't believe that they would skip out on quality so much even at the pro level. I hope a new company comes in and really picks up the slack. I'm getting tired of junk. Everywhere I look these days it's just paying more money and receiving trash.
Yeah, about the only ones people online are saying good about are the Technifibre top level where they do QC and the way overpriced Fuzzy Yellow Balls where if you buy the latter online directly from them or Amazon they will keep hounding you to sign up for the Fuzzy Yellow Balls program you have to pay for each month to use after the free month trial from your ball purchase comes up and can't renew can only start over at beginner using this a code from another ball purchase, so frustrating.
It's a curse on all industries. Quality is going downhill all around. We are getting less and less for more and more money.
There needs to be a tennis season. Australian Open to US Open topped by Davis Cup. Mens tennis is just a power show these days.
@@aaronaragon7838 Yes at least some time off between the Main ATP/WTA and the final big tournaments, only a few sports/events have such little time off for competitors like top levels of Tennis that are as demanding or more as most are sports that less demanding on the body. So yeah the big non ATP/WTA events are just showing off now, placing enough out there and with rules forcing by the ATP/WTA players to play in some of these non ATP/WTA events just to keep playing on the ATP/WTA.
The other problem is that Tennis the companies tried to make it harder for the power players by slowing courts down, slowing the balls down used in the league and in the opens but this just made the sport even harder for the non power players to the point you will in the ATP/WTA only have super power players on the courts in the top 100, maybe a speed player with good power but not super power who can use the slow ball/court to their advantage.
I could see pro players using some thicker round strings in Polyester, for in cusses or mains almost rarely both. the rare pro players use who do not break gut/nylon gut in some cases, or even some multifilament strings in crosses or mains with the main type used being the multifilament that is just a nylon gut reinforced with Kevlar to combat the major Dunlop models the ATP/WTA is forcing the players to use and cut down on the fuzzy issue by using less power or thicker round polyester strings to combat these fuzzy and similar bad ball issues that have cropped up even more since after 2020 and the new cheaper manufacturing came out while supply chains were down that companies for almost everything in the world have kept with only a few exceptions where you are being forced to use X due to new laws.
Thanks so much for recognising and posting this. I've been playing district competition, on both hardcourt and lawn, since the early 90s. The balls just don't come through anywhere near as much as in the past - even since the mid 2010s. They are furry, uneven, and wasted after one set. This, combined with widespread use of poly and multifilament strings, is making the district game a mess. The all-court player will soon be a thing of the past - including any form of serve and volleying, or single-handed backhand. Backhand slice is now a defunct shot because the ball simply doesn't bounce high enough. Only a bashing poorly balanced shot is rewarded. It is causing injuries, particularly shoulder and tendons, now in players in their thirties.
its harrowing to hear "pay more for better balls" when the prices have been steadily increasing year over year. Here in SEA we barely have any other options now cause for some reason everyone decided to just stock up on those Dunlop ATPs and they definitely feel a lot worse compared to the old Dunlop Elites.
Sturdavants has the Technifibre balls. (Club and court). If you want to try something different. When i play on a dirty winter court in 43deg i just use the low QA costco balls. Hope you hit at least once outside this long weekend.
Wilson have gotten back their QC on Wilson US Opens, but Penn (of all level) & Dunlop have gotten significantly worse post-COVID. The problem of Penn and Dunlop are different too, which leads to further inconsistencies. Penn balls in general have terrible quality control, even the Pro Penn. The manufacturing method they've adopted in the last few years leaves a very obvious "notch" in the rubber connection between the seams that they glue the two rubber pieces. Dunlop, especially the Dunlop ATP now uses a lower quality felt that wears unevenly, and fluffs up and tear off the ball after relatively short amount of play.
Wilson are the worst at my club. Feel like discount shop ball they are probably from the B grade factory
@@Tom-f8r8o Absolutely, Wilsons are the least durable balls I have played with.
@@Tom-f8r8o Regular Wilson's are dodgy, but the US Open ones have a greater lifespan
@@Tom-f8r8o US opens? No shot, those absolutely one of the best balls you can get post-covid
Wilson Tour are always trustable here in India. Slightly more expensive but they are all soo durable & get fluffy and heavy.
I like them as I can compete against big servers with those balls hehehe
Major League Baseball has had this problem as well. any slight change to the balls make pitchers more advantage or home runs easier etc
Media dollars increase through more viewership time by creating more interest in game play which sells more advertising time space . Another cabal .
This has been an on going issue with the tour since the early 2000s. The tour has been making a concerted effort to slow down the game as much as possible because they don't want the game to turn into serve fests (the 1980s and 1990s were like this). It's just now they have gone full speed all the way to the extreme end on the other side, where courts and balls are now slow because they are trying to balance the speed of the game versus athletes that literally didn't exist 20-30 years ago.
Court speed is increasing though. This is the fastest AO yet I think. They're trying to push a very flat style.
Makes all the players avoid attacking style of play as well. Sucks
@@user-ez9ng2rw9c Yeah, ball slower, they want you to run, but ball doesn't bounce like it should.
i am so glad for your video. as a recreational player, i find it hard to tell someone else that there is something wrong with dunlop ATP balls, especially at the recreational level where majority of the players benefit from the slowed down balls, and as a hard hitter i just sound like im blaming the balls for my poor performance
Brilliant video explaining situation so well. I was curious about the massive difference between the loss of power with a player like meddy and then Carlos and sinner. Very well made
As a coach, used Penn balls are a joke. Especially the Costco ones, they are worn out after an hour. We open Wilson US Opens every 3 months for our teaching carts and the balls are good for months. Diadem balls last long as well. Other brands I pull out of my cart.
US open for playability, diadem for long lasting practice.
I was away from tennis for decades, then came back 5-6 years ago. I was using those same Penn balls, and I couldn't believe how bad they were. It used to be that balls became unusable when they eventually lost pressure. These balls were bald and unusable, like you said, after one set. I started planning on one can per set, which is pretty crazy.
I switched to the Tretorn MicroX (pressureless), they last a loooooot longer.
As a rec player, I've noticed this new trend. The new balls now seems to last no more than 1 hour.
Love this video! It would great to know more about the production of tennis balls, why they changed, and what are the new materials in them. Great to hear that conversation from pro players.
i thought my timing was getting better, but i guess it's just the balls : (
could be both
This was a brilliant video because it talked on major issue but one that most aren’t talking about. Fantastic
My friends and I have noticed this too, especially with Grand Prix and ATP Dunlops. Pro Penn Marathons seem to bounce lower. Prices have gone up already, but now we are paying for worse balls. I recently tried Diadem Premier and they seem to be good (so far).
I thought maybe it was because it's winter, but my case of penn balls from Costco I've gotten recently are significantly worse than I've ever had them. They don't last nearly as long, and often one is immediately worse than the others.
I had one with a really small hole in it out of the can today
After I bought a case that had 3 completely unpressurized cans I stopped buying the Costco Penns. They're a waste of money and materials. I've been using Diadem Extra Duty almost exclusively for over a year and they're amazing. Consistent and durable, lasting for multiple sessions and still leaving marks on hard court.
To tech these companies a lesson send them back . Interesting how the choices of these ball manufacturers create more waste in throughing out slow dead like balls . They don't get it until you stop buying it . They will all try to act equally and call it the standard .
@@kevinlloyd3047 Diadem produce harder balls and I guess it is becoming more necc . Balls at ATP sponsored tournaments are going to be part of the corporate cabal and to the highest bidder to follow the agenda .
@@derekpappas1556 I returned my case of Penn's to Costco. I'm not paying full price for those trash balls!
That is why I have swapped over to using pressure less balls as they last way longer while still remaining good quality when it bounces.
This explains so much. Every can we open now just seems flat and dead. I personally use Wilson triniti balls and they feel like trampolines now by comparison. Hopefully the ball companies get their act together
Bro the Trinity balls are made for ball machines
Right after lockdowns, my buddy and I went to play the clay open nationals in Fort Lauderdale. When we got there, we were given a can of fresh wilson us open regular duty balls for practice. Within 25 minutes, we got one of the balls to actually break, and the other two were the size of soccer balls. We thought this was just a bad can, until we came the next day for practice and broke another ball, this time within 15 minutes of practice. We had never broken balls like that in the past, and it only would happen after playing with balls for over 5 or so days, not with fresh cans. The quality is horrible and continues to be horrible.
Definitely noticed this. The penns I was buying this summer felt like they’d been sitting for months opened after just one session
Great production quality on this video ❤
Thanks!
Thanks Carlos! Really appreciate the donation, viewership and membership! All the best, B+S
The types of injuries attributed to the balls can often be traced back to poor technique. I agree that a lack of consistency over a set can leave players guessing how the balls will behave. About five years ago, with the help of a coach, I rebuilt my technique from the ground up. I experienced pain transitioning from a classic (continental) forehand to a modern forehand due to the significant differences in timing and spacing.
At the ATP level, sensitivity to ball speed and drag is likely heightened. Personally, I recall that Slazenger balls in the 1990s were relatively fast and consistent in quality. However, the post-COVID Slazengers are noticeably worse. The variation between different brands is extreme. I also recall ATP and WTA players expressing a desire for greater uniformity in the tennis ball brands used on tour.
Greate video!
Looking forward to seeing a video about João Fonseca, his setup and your opinion about his future!
I already consider him one of the hardest hitting players of the tour along with alcaraz and sinner.
Greetings from Brasil!
Great video! Thank You 🎾
Babolat Golds are super fast, Slazenger hard court balls are great too & extremely consistent...whereas..Dunlop OV are truly horrible in every regard by comparison..yet its allowed at the highest level!? I thought that the ATP & WTA would be able to control anissue as simple as this one at the behest its players...
Love Babolat Golds. Best ball I've ever played.
Good video and good analysis. But you should add the sources for where you got these infos (I'm especially interested in where you get the spec updates for the pros)
(:
Zverev on the money. THese balls are not just ruining tournaments, also ruining the game style at grass root levels. Hate them, but love the game. We normally used Babolat RG initiaaly, followed by Wilson RG (We play on a Clay court). Have been using TF X-One for past couple of years, currently the only one that rewards the shots upto some extend.
Honestly The change in quality of balls over The last few years is so big it is insane how it is not talked about more, it is not just pro players But every tennis player who is affected by The worse quality and it makes The game significantly less enjoyable when you buy balls and they are just dead even out of the can, and then having to be replaced after 1 hour of hitting…
Great video! Its true and the game is getting worse for sure. There should also be more variety of surfaces and balls on the tour. Everything is slow now.
I too have experienced this in all the coaching sessions I run. It is particularly noticeable with the more skillful players who are able to comprehend and apply heavy spins. I have switched to the Technifibre X-ONE ball. It is, imo, the loveliest ball on the market at present. It is a little more expensive, but due to the superior rubber and felt used in its construction, it lasts 3 - 4 times longer, so actually works out cheaper in the long run.
OK, and what you didn't even mention is that actual tournament balls are NOT the same as those sold to general public. For example, Head balls have a small green label "Tournament select" on the cartoon box, everything else including bar codes being exactly the same and cans are identical, but quality of the balls is drastically different. So if the pro's are complaining about quality, not sure what the rec players should do, most of the balls are borderline unusable despite price increases.
For college or PTT balls are same as public quality, not sure about slams/atp
Played tennis for 12 years, i opened a Costco pen can the other day and was figuring out which ball to serve, 1 was flat, and the other 2 were like in between bouncy and not. Miss the old feeling of the bounce where I had to really work hard to get to the ball and was rewarded for getting there
Wow, thanks for this super video. Are you also on the tour ?
At my club that I run, we decided to switch to the Trinity balls. Last longer, and they don’t fuzz up as much. Granted they’re little harder, but they play well even if you don’t like the noise.
What I have noticed with the more traditional balls, is that either the rubber and the pressure is of a lower quality, or that they are staying on the strings longer with the use of full polyester string set ups/rackets being designed for poly use to grip the ball more. I think the combo destroying the pressure which is also causing the balls to grip and stay on the court longer, causing them to fluff more.
Not sure playing with all these rackets is deadening the balls quicker than they used to or if it’s just lower quality tennis ball, or a combo.
I've seen similar issues in baseball. Pitchers just rejecting a whole tin of balls one after the other due to poor quality.
I have tried a ton of different companies in the past few years and this is very true. The best one so far as far as what they used to be are Diadem Premier balls. Wilson Trinity Pro is quite descant too but people usually don't like to play with pressureless balls. Otherwise over 20 brands were all much slower.
Great video and production.
Cheers,
M
I've been using Diadem Premier Extra Duty Tennis Balls and they seem to fluff less than practically every other ball. I play USTA 5.0. I'm 48 years old and played D1 a while ago.
Amazing video. My coach uses Costco penn balls and these play so inconsistently out of the cans. Especially in the colder months here in California.
How would you describe the overall effect that temperature and climate has on low quality balls?
Does the create an opening for the "pressureless" balls? They've definitely come a long way in the last couple of years.
Extreme win for the production. They reduced costs plus ppl have to buy more balls since they die faster
We all play differently and with different preferences depending on our style. Me and my tennis partners like the Dunlop ATP Extra Duty. We started playing them last year. They do get fluffy, but has the advantage of keeping the grip for spin, control, at the cost of speed of course. Consistency is more important factor so you can adjust your play and style.
100% agree with Zverev’s assessment. I was able to locate some pre-Covid tubes and those balls would bounce higher and last more than twice as long as current stock. Additionally, when they eventually went bad they didn’t feel like one was hitting a rock.
Couldnt agree more Beckett and its something Ive noticed personally when just hitting with some high level players or playing league matches with the Penn or in our speak Head Tour balls. Having to play 2 3 set matches in the span of about 3 hours with 3 or if we're lucky 4 balls per court normally 3 courts of which being the Tour or the Tour XT the way they die off and fluff up is horrible. Lead me to change racket as I just had nothing on the ball very quickly. Had to dump my control sticks and go back to my aeros I used in my junior days and the change was insane. Not only my racket has changed but also the spec of what I would go towards just to try and get more out of what we as tennis players of all levels have to deal with. I know youve liked the Dunlop rackets in the past both the CX and FX lines and hope you get to try out the new SX line this coming year in particular the SX 300 Tour I feel like it has a lot you would like good blend of an Aero 98 and the TFX1 without the awful stringbed consistency on the TFX1. Love the vids and keep it up. Might give the Gold balls a try soon.
Whenever I hit with the Costco penns, it last 1 set or minimum a set and a half. I would pay a little bit more for a higher quality ball. Coincidentally, the Dunlop balls are cheaper than the penns.
I have noticed it last year untill now. I thought I bought a few bad badges (I buy with my hitting partners in bulk) but this explains the consitency of the bad quality. What a shame for tennis as a whole.
What camera do you use? Your videos are beautiful. Thanks for another great one!
It's crazy how bad the quality of those Dunlop balls is. Last week I bought a new tube, and half an hour into playing we lost one ball. An hour and a half later the two remaining balls popped, with about a quarter of each ball completely split open on the surface.
which ones did you buy, id only buy the regular or extra duty?
@ I have no idea, my friend bought them, but the tube looked very similar or identical to the one in the video
@@ignacioyacachury5951 yes, any two that I didn’t mention are absolute dog shit.
The propenns to me have been some of the most consistent, but the regular penns lose half their bounce the first hour you play with them. I got a case of regular penns once where every single ball was flat. The Wilson US open balls are good but I've noticed they lose their felt extremely quickly lately, to the point that they pick up speed dramatically after a short time.
It's mostly the fluff that has gotten worse on all the different brands i tried. I found a remedy to at least extend the life of the balls times 2 and that is shaving hairy balls 😂. Not digging deep into the felt, just shaving of the excess fluff that is sticking out way too far. I measures the weight of the ball before and after and no change in weight. It takes a bit of time, but improves the ball
It feels so much softer when done :)
Even on a club level, it is "visible" how balls are changing. Dunlop Clay balls after 40 minutes are dead, Technifibre are like hitting a rock... The most significant issue is that balls are getting non-elastic and that cause many arm issues (since we are not changing balls every seven games, but every few hours)
You probably got defected balls. I played with Dunlop Clay for 4 hours in last two weeks and they still play quite well.
Same for Penn Heavy Duty Championship they are the proper bounce but are hitting like a rock worse then most but have the air leak issue most brands have so, being like a rock helps this issue out as they become normal.
@@kkarx Again it is the QC issue that is wildly out of spec, something that has gotten worse since 2021-2022 on most items.
@ Only Wilson wont last more than 2 hours no matter what. 😂
Perhaps fort all courts will be just wright :)
I’ve found that Diadem tennis balls are super fast and don’t fluff up that much compared to other tennis balls. However, they seem to become heavier than any other tennis ball I’ve tried in the rain.
Definitely are .
I started playing tennis in 2020, and my tennis coach loved these Wilson balls, and I remember somewhere on the can that the balls were made in 2019. Fast forward today, and my high school coach opened a can of the exact same branded Wilson balls, and all 3 of them bounced like a baseball. The better I get and the stronger I get just from growing up, the slower the ball goes, and overall I just find so many inconsistencies with timing. While it may be my own error, it doesn’t really make sense that the better I get the worse I get at hitting the ball 😭 (btw I’m a 5.2 UTR and I’m a baseliner)
At 5.2 UTR the ball shouldn't matter for you bro focus on improving your form. I'd say balls don't matter until top level college/atp
The quality of balls started to tank before covid when the ATP switched from Penn to Dunlop for their official balls. ProPenns have had the largest quality drop imo. Give me a Dunlop ATP Extra Duty core with Penn felt and it will be the best ball currently. Wilson US Opens are still good though their durability isn't that great.
Last year I’d get one can of Wilson USO that were perfect then another can the balls felt dead after one hour of rec play. The consistency has been a concern.
I never even realized this was happening but it makes so much sense looking back on it. Probably why tennis has become less and less fun for me since covid. I used to be good at redirecting pace, but now even on my volleys it’s not enough just to block it, unless my wrist were made of titanium. It’s a bummer because volleying is one of my favorite parts of the game
I do enjoy watching the current brand of tennis. We are seeing players learn to make more extreme angles with their ground strokes rather than trying to hit winners out the back of the court. Some players are becoming more intelligent with how they vary the speed, spin, and height of their shots to induce mistakes from their opponents. Plus, seeing talents like Alcaraz just mashing the ball as hard as possible is exciting!
While I theoretically would pay more for a better quality ball, I also don't want to buy into that idea. As mentioned, the idea was for ball companies to change rubber was to reduce costs -- meaning they probably are making more profit on the new balls.
The important part is to maintain healthy expectations for what products we believe are acceptable, and to protest effectively when mistreated as customers. I think it's excellent that Zverev has been such an articulate and outspoken critic of this situation.
If we demand better quality balls, the market will deliver them. If they are too expensive, change your strings and keep using bad balls while asking for better ones at reasonable prices.
We have the Hydrogen Proton ball machine. The Dunlops, Wilsons, and Penns last about 3-4 hour long sessions before they are useless. The balls we have standardized on are the Technifibres. They will last 3 to 5 times longer than most others.
It must be tough playing with slow balls on clay in a grand slam… it takes hell out of you… imagine playing 5 sets, he will be at disadvantage for his next round match
This should be easy to prove through Hawkeye or other tech, that measures ball speed. Why is nobody adding facts to this discussion? 🤷♂️
Not when the strings and rackets change or tensions change . If a player is swinging harder or faster , the ball speed mY look the same . The injuries increase to adapt . These buisnesses are no longer people . They are in it for the profit margins now , not the sport .
@@derekpappas1556 Would a ball machine being fed different balls not be able to objectively measure how much they slow down during flight and after bounce?
@thegreatNEb yes but you would be better off with a camera recording it from the side and take into consideration weather conditions .
I used to use those Dunlop ATPs, they fuzz up like crazy!
I've started using pressureless/trainer balls. They take 6 months to go flat and don't fluff. They are definitely heavier off the racket but travel through the court much better.
I took a couple of years off tennis and recently started playing again regularly. I have a set of TK298 18/20 Pro Stocks from when Head used to offer custom-made rackets to the general public. My current string setup is 56 lbs on the mains (RPM Blast) and 54 lbs on the crosses (Wilson NXT).
With the new balls, I can’t get any depth unless I really force my shots. I’m switching to a full bed of RPM Soft at 52 lbs to get more pop and to give my shoulder a break. It’s crazy-if this continues, I’ll probably have to move to a new racket with a much more open string pattern within the year.
We’ve been using Babolat balls at my club, and they just stop dead on the court. It’s absolutely insane!
Play with string gauge combination to test the best pattern and spacing , before choosing a new racket .
@@derekpappas1556 I've gone down to 1.25mm from 1.3mm on that RPM soft seems to have worked.
I love your collection of rackets in the back
I played for a very poor high school program, we reused the same crappy balls over and over and over and over until they were just too dead. This was a decade ago -- the balls never got fluffy like the ones the pros are using now unless they got super wet several times.
This is one of the reasons why stopped using a mid plus racquet. I went from a Prince tour 95 to the Wilson shift 99
This is what the companies do to lead you to were they want you to go . Full game and industry manipulation .
Damn those oversize-loving ceos over in Big Racquet! @@derekpappas1556
I had noticed the ball become softer even a fresh ball.
I love the ATP balls. I am a 4.0 player with a pretty good serve. The balls get slow after about 6 or 8 games and then a serve advantage fades and the rallies get longer. There is more time for longer rallies and and more time for the play to develop which makes the game more fun.
Love your videos, big fan… but I somehow notice the background music today is a little too loud with higher pitch that’s little annoying to hear especially when I want to listen to your words clearly. Hope you can consider this when choosing background music in the future. Thanks
I started playing in 2019. But would’ve loved to feel the difference of balls in 2015 for example. The US open extra duty for me is still my fav. Which stays good for a couple sessions at least.
Working at a tennis club for years. Used to source the ProPenn marathons because they were great for teaching. Would get so many hours out of them for rec players 1.0-4.0.
We switched to Penn Tours because they were cheaper and honestly they don’t play much different.
When I find old tennis balls from other people who leave them, like Us Opens, atp dunlops, penn 1’s (the Costco ball he refers to) etc. I just immediately toss them because they are fluffy, flat, sometimes the rubber is “stale”.
The PPenn Marathons too started having ridiculous quality control issues.
I know Covid put a massive strain on the supply chain - it was impossible to get the color/low pressure training tennis balls for months. And now it’s possible that as things get back to normal, companies think we won’t notice and profit the difference.
I would absolutely pay more for a high quality ball. Better hitting session, more predictable. Tennis depends on a sense of predictability. The court dimensions, net heights are all standardized. I think the QC of the ball needs to be better for sure.
Will this affect the junior level of players who play the usta tournaments and junior itf tournaments, or not really as something like this would be more noticeable for the pros?
I think it's noticeably for most levels. Of course power isn't as important until you hit 4.5+, as consistency rules the lower levels, but I'm seeing plenty of long, 3 hour plus slog-fests at my local tournaments. The inconsistency between the balls is an issue too. Most tournaments allow for one tube of balls per match, yet, balls can easily be completely worn out after only one set. I think worn out balls and slow conditions tend to favor "pushers" at rec levels.
@@TennCominteresting, as a pusher i actually like lively balls, guys with powerful and long strokes can do damage even with dead balls and the slower ball is easier for them to time. Conversely i can't get any pace on a dead ball with my short strokes and my opponents tend to make more errors with lively balls
I only play occasionally now, but I have 12 Dunlop 3 balls and they just don't get fuzzy or loose their toughness at all. My newer ones are in bad condition after one session on the other hand...
So, are there signs that this trend is going to reverse or do the manufacturers don't seem to care?
Especially given Zverev's comments, I think the best outcome would be some stricter ball standardizations by the ITF, or whatever mess of governing bodies we are subject to.
@@TennComI fully agree with this, I don't even understand how they haven't done this yet. I mean tennis is a millimeter sport. A ball that is still on the line is a winner and can win you the match, but can sail long 1 cm if the ball is just a tiny bit different. The ball is a huge part of the equation.
@@Stu49583 It is all about the media economic incentive .
I don't see so much of the fluffiness but I told my coach I'm convinced the balls now lose pressure. Some days after an hour hit my shoulder feels like it has been hit with sledge hammer. I never ever had shoulder issues until after covid.
Excellent video, subbed
Thanks for the content. Yes, I play on clay pretty much all the time and would buy Wilson Roland Garros balls by the case. Noticed significant drop in playability/duirability with the last case I bought in the back end of 2023. Switched to the Gold since and is definitely better.
It's true. Only the Wilson US Open extra duty keeps its playing quality for long - tho it goes through a fluffier phase after ~8 games before becoming really good again after about another 8 games.
(5.0 level ref)
Crazy how baseball basketball and most major sports have a unified ball they use and not multiple brands. Tennis def needs to fix this and it’s not talked about enough.
Dunlop forte balls quality went down during covid. Fluffing out, tearing. Could not get any power, dead balls. Changed rackets as well. The balls have changed back to a better quality last year.
Great video man
I’d really like to see some independent comparison done between sealed old stock balls and some new stock produced in the last 2 years. Would be interesting to try to reproduce some of the metrics Zverev was quoting I assume from the manufacturers? How did the rubber compound change? Was it a change in the manufacturing process, or change in the materials, or change in design (ex thinner shell)?
I have a hard time believing the ATP don’t have access to this information. I get why they want to use a ball that’s easily commercially available for marketing reasons but if they’re having these quality issues then maybe they should up the spec. Regulation MLB balls are not cheap, despite the need for dozens of them per game. Ditto for most any other sport.
Tricky problem to fix because the official tournament balls should also be the same as the consumer ball, right? So the quality drops for everyone and balls need to be price-competitive.
This sucks. Glad this video exists, I feel like most viewers are unaware of how significant and frequent these equipment or surface levels changes can adjust the meta of tennis and suddenly favor someone else.
Good video!
I use regular Penns from for months and it doesn't fuzz like the balls you showed. I know certain tennis court surfaces are different from one court to another fuzzing or balding the tennis balls faster than most. That's my humble opinion as a coach that travels to different tennis court locations and surfaces.
I absolutely agree with Zverev. Especially Dunlop Fort balls. They have become extremely bad especially in South Africa leading to many injuries on the club and Provincial level.
Fantastic video. Yeah of course we noticed that. I mean we always played with the Head Tour in Austria for our Team competition and the balls were so bad. In the first 20 minutes they were hard like bricks and went flying. Then for 15 minutes they were actually good. After that they went fluffy and they were no power anymore. Pretty similar to the Dunlop ATP. For me the best two balls are the DIADEM Balls ((can play 6 hours) and the Babolat Team. But I think HEAD is actually addressing the issue as the balls got better in the last 6 months. At least I think that.
so many comments about Diadem balls I'll have to try some asap
@@TennCom yes. The price is also not bad!