Toyota GR Supra Manual vs Porsche 718 Cayman GTS Manual vs BMW M2 Manual - Head to Head Review!
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
- It's finally time to put the manual GR Supra 3.0 Premium through its paces against two of the best German sports cars from the last few years. Let's find out which turbocharged, RWD, 6 speed manual, refined driver's car is best to drive on a canyon road, and which is worth its asking price!
Check out Jubbal and Cars' review of the same cars:
• (Manual) Toyota GR Sup...
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Email me if you'd like me to review your car: zygrene@gmail.com
#supra #cayman #m2
I got my 2023 Toyota Supra A91 delivered 3 weeks ago. I can tell you that you are right about the manual transmission being the best of the 3. Such a fun car to drive. The M2 Comp 6MT was my 2nd choice. 😊
You nailed the articulation of differences between the 718 GTS and M2C. The M2’s charm is, in part, the exercise in car control and the ability to drive on the limit of grip in many more circumstances (and more of the time) compared to the 718. The M2 is, based on my experiences with both, quite like a bigger, faster, and more upscale GR86/BRZ. It’s weirdly surprising how much you can exercise the M2 on public roads. Limits of the 718 are tougher to flirt with on public roads. The 718 in stock form is more communicative and predictable at the limit compared to the stock M2. However, its limits out of the box are much higher, which is a mixed blessing. I love the 718 in all guises and powertrains. Driven many on track and roads. The 2.5 turbo allows more throttle-oversteer provocation than the sixes, but there is no bad way to go with the 718 cayman. If you can afford it, I recommend a midengine, bespoke platform for precision, but combined with a front-engine, RWD platform for the sheer fun of car control.
I have a manual m2. It’s definitely more of a muscle car than sports car, I absolutely love how fun it is.
@@lloyd.8272 I've never driven a 2.5 or 2.0 718 on public roads, aside from a brief test drive (with the nannies in a liberal mode). I'm curious how much more lively and provokable the chassis would be on public roads with boost (compared to the NA6s, which are tougher to poke past the edge of grip in daily scenarios). This kind of playful grip-limit driving is exactly what I adore about the M2.
Well said
@@chasejohnson6587 I can tell you the 2.5L turbo is a torque monster. Mid-range is even better. Upper revs are rarely needed really, but more power is available.
I put a Softronic flash on mine for a while. I had to take it off to pass emissions and decided after driving it that way for a few days, the car was just as fun on the street without the extra power. With the flash, spinning the tires in 1st or 2nd. is EZ. I'm just not the frantic driver I used to be, I guess.
Chase: It's not an M2C...He says so in the vid. It's a standard M2.
Finally someone compares the supra and the 718. THANK YOU!
Pumping out the videos. Thanks Zygrene!!
I was cross shopping these three and actually talked to you about it and I'm glad you convinced me to buy the Supra. It really is a great all around car.
The Porsche short shift kit is highly rated, I put one on my old 987 Boxster S and my 981 Spyder came that way. It feels like a bolt action rifle.
Non LCI M2 with low mileage is still 40-45k LCI M2 is 44-49k. M2 under 40k probably has over 70k miles on it.
Bought a LCI for 45k v recently. very true
Yeup the m2 , m2lci and m2 comp can all be found between 38-50k. There were two m2 lci fully loaded and m2c for 45k with 40-50k miles. I ended up with the 2018 m2 lci one owner in alpine white fully loaded. I drove the m2c back to back both 6spd and same cost and I just loved the lci more. The n55b has a lot of potential and you can make big power with this engine. The pure 800 on this thing is insane. But I just want around 550whp which is quite a bit and more than I need. I have a 700 whp 335is with the n54 and that was hella fast but now I’m loving the corners more than just highway speed racing.
All of this just reminds me of how fantastic the GR86 is. If they ever put in a motorsport/better sounding engine and kept evolving the steering feedback (think of it as a STI/GRMN version like Porsche does with their GT lines) it would take one of the best sports cars that can be enjoyed on the streets and elevate it to the Gods. I don't own one but did Turo it and was blown away. I have owned performance cars for 20 years.
I have one and a 981 boxster s. Also owned a M235i previously (not quite the M2 but in the neighborhood). Love both the boxster and the GR86 but the fun per dollar is way better in the little toyota
GR86 is great but if you don’t need a daily the S2000 is next level fun again.
@@Manvswild11 not for me. The S2000 is fun only when you beat the hell out of it. I want a sports car that can be fun regardless of whether I wish to drive like a maniac or in simply a spirited manner
@@stms4411Miata
Great comparison video! I have a 981 Boxster S, and watching this video, it gave me a few thoughts:
1. I just can't love the turbo 4 engine note. The new engine is more capable performance-wise, but give me the NA flat 6 all day.
2. Watching the Supra able to shift up to 4th gear on that road gave me envy. That car looks like a blast to drive, and it's actually geared appropriately for roads like that.
3. Building on that last point, I'll fight to my last breath that the better transmission for 718/Cayman/Boxsters of these generations is the PDK. The manual shifter is pointless when you only get to rev through 2nd gear, shift to 3rd, then have to brake for the next turn. The NA versions of these cars also really benefit from the easier/faster shifting by the german robot.
4. I just don't love most BMWs, and the lack of grip is why. I must say, though, I'm really impressed by their partnership on the Supra. That car is quite the performer.
I don't understand people that complain about a 4 cylinder sound (which sounds awesome), then drive a PDK. So you're a purist, but a sell out at the same time? Sounds like a paid journalists spiel. The PDK is exactly the same as every other DTC I've driven, VW Polo GTI, Audi TTS, AMG A45, the amount of BS talk about PDK made me test drive one, and I didn't last 3 minutes, drove it back to Porsche told them its dogshit and bought the manual (after doing a couple burnouts, revving randomly and skipping gears all of which a PDK can't do).
This is an incredible comparison. The details in the differences between the cars are excellent. Zygrene is simply one of the best car reviewers I know of. He actually provides real, useful information to a potential buyer.
16:12
It's here!! Been looking forward to more GR M/T Supra videos.
Can't wait for you to review the CT4-V Blackwing. There's one on Turo in the area... So tempting
Is the one on Turo a stick?
Yes please!
Imagine fitting better tires onto the Supra? It's a fantastic piece of hardware, and I give kudos to BMW and Toyota for continually improving it.
The best channel
hey bro just saying you are one of my favorite car channels now, its just so clean, simple and good content thank you and keep on making it
I owned a 2018 m2 6MT for 5 years and sold it for an Elantra N recently. Unbelievably, I don’t actually think about or miss the M2 at all unless I encounter a situation where I want to slide it. Overall the Elantra N is actually far more engaging and talkative than the M2 and reminds me of M cars of old [Thanks Albert Beirmann]🎉
😮 What a downgrade
@@TerrannotOP Don't knock it till you try it. It shocked me too.
@@subsixtynk95 is like trump to biden. Bad choice 🫢
@@TerrannotOP Big Yikes keyboard driver.
@@subsixtynk95 for real, man doesn’t even warrant a response with those banger takes. Likely hasn’t tried any of the cars on the list. I loved the M2 comp on track but visually it leave me wanting more. I’ve driven all 3 cars on the comparison and although great they still don’t sway me from the Type R and Veloster N combo we went for at home. Biermann really is that dude.
Great video, love that supra!
Great review, and good insight regarding the flywheel on the Supra.. completely agree
This has inspired me to go on a canyon run to the snow dusted mountains above San Diego in my bugeyes WRX wagon tomorrow just to go for a fun drive. Great review!
Absolutely crazy someone paid $90k for a four cylinder and yes I’ve driver two GTS Caymans. Get the 4.0 GTS. Personally I would go M2 because I like driving with my windows down which you can’t in the Supra
This channel deserves more subs and views
I bought one of the special edition A91-MT Supras in CU Later Gray 2 weeks ago, and I honestly love the car. I'm coming from an S2000, and it doesn't feel as raw or turn in as sharply as the S2K, but it still feels really great, it has just enough of a premium feel to make you feel comfortable and feel like you're in a nice place (especially with the Cognac interior of the A91-MT), and of course the power and torque is way better. It does feel like a heavier car though, but the chassis also feels really good, and it rides well. I like both the S2000 and new Supra for very different reasons. For me, the S2000 will make a lot more sense as a raw track car, while the Supra will be the fast, comfortable, stylish daily driver. I still would like to get ahold of a GR86 too though. :)
is the supra still fun in the twisties even with its heavier weight and less raw feeling?
@@gangsta_pigeon8023 Absolutely. Just look at how popular it is in time attack competitions right now.
Supra, hands down.
Aftermarket support later on,
HUGE power support,
B58 reliability.
Yes!!! I’ve been waiting for this video. Thank you so much as I narrowed my choices to these three exactly
Zygrene is really upping his game. Loved this comparison. Honestly all great but Supra would be my choice for the looks, engine sound, and best manual transmission
Mrs. Cows sir. Thanks for the great compassion review. Cross shopping these platforms, perfect timing!
I was cross shopping all of those and ended up with a GT350 lol.
Hard to argue with just to engine alone
Not a bad choice.
You made the correct decision. Flat plain crank and 525 HP naturally aspirated with a solid chassis.
M2 for 35-40k in good condition? Sign me up, but I can’t find that anywhere.
great video! these all seem like the next step if i ever get sick of my fk8
Really glad I came across this. I got my A91-MT back in October and have given praise for the shifter in the Supra. Given who it is made by, it does not feel like it's relatives which is great. The steering is so much better (at least) than the previous gen Supra. There is a noticeable difference with suspension and steering in comparison to my old 2022 Supra.
🥳
WUT! I have a 981 gt4 and am considering the SUPA! Can't wait to hear your thoughts
Thank you for uploading! Thanks dude
I have the a91mt in Cu later gray and truly love it. Porsche is just overpriced. Supra is probably the best BMW has to offer but not priced by BMW
Really good analysis of all three of these cars. I've owned two M2s, completely agree with you. The weakness of that car is the high center of gravity and the weight.
Great video, any comments on visibility of supra. Turoed one and could not get over the lack of visibility. Unfortunately ruined it for me
The more I read and watch anything on the manual supra, the more I want one. Been looking for a 718 Cayman for some time, but it looks like the best bang for your buck may just be a new manual Supra.
Fenton- excellent comparison as always. I am surprised to hear about slop in the 2.5 Cayman gearbox. Was the Cayman 4.0 better in this regard? I am wondering if it is is a car specific situation with this particular Cayman example, as Jubbai said the same in his prior review.
The 4.0's shifter seemed better but I'd have to drive them back to back
For some reason, the 18 GTS doesn't have the sport shifter and linkage. The sport linkage is about $300 plus a couple hours labor for install. Nice improvement. I don't have any issues with mine. It's not too short like some aftermarket shifters. I never miss a shift and it feels just right.
Upvoting for the cow cameo! Just kidding, great comparison video. Love all three cars.
Also the n55b is not the same as the n55 that’s in those other mentioned vehicles it shares quite a bit from the s55 and has forged internals, improved cooling and is a very capable and potent reliable engine. What makes an m car is more than just the engine it’s the chassis. Great and amazing vid.
With the cayman you may lose the awesome 6 cylinder sound but you gain serious tuning potential with a factory turbo engine. Tunes gain 50-100hp. So you can get the higher performance of the more expensive versions with much less costly mods instead.
Yes!!! and the GTS has an extra radiator in the center!
lmaooo the cows 10:27
Another awesome vid! I need to drive a cayman asap! Love the size.
Great vid! I have an '18 Cayman GTS. I put a Porsche sport shifter on it and improved the shift feel, shortened the stick and throws...but not too much. It's a bit of a bear to get in reverse...but otherwise, much more intuitive and "right" over the stock shifter. That said, clutch take-up is a complaint I had with my '06 Cayman S that follows with this car. It's a little tricky to make consistent smooth starts. If you don't it can make a noise somewhere in back that doesn't feel expensive. Agree that it is a riot to drive and look at. No regrets on this purchase.
I bought it new...traded for a 4 month old 19 Carrera T...which felt to "GT" for my taste, although I completely loved its 3L TT engine.
I had a 21 Cayman S and found the manual trans and motor and absolute joy. I get that the 4 cylinder causes the Porsche faithful to storm the village with torches and pitchforks but damn, it was a perfect car. Too bad I had to sell to remodel my house..
Nice comparison of two BMWs and a Porsche! 😄I have the same Manual Transmission Preservation Society sticker that's on the M2 on my MINI Cooper S.
Props for doing a proper comparison. I'm amazed by how BMW fanboys like Jason Camissa tore Supra to shreds as an inferior M2 without noticing that one is a dedicated sports car, the other is a hooligan-mobile
This video just makes me want a 981 S. Best of all worlds for around $45k used
Had the 981 S and now have the 718 GTS, the 981 feels 100 years old in comparison.
@@LateNightDateNight 100 years older ? What are you even saying ? The 981s sounds Miles better than the 718 . Speed wise I can’t argue the 981 being slower but 981 with the bigger NA engine just that alone is so much more engaging to drive. You drive these cars for excitement not for worrying gas consumptions which the 718 is all about
@@kerm281 this chassis just feels like it’s built for the 2.5l engine. During spirited driving, the torque really brings the car to life which was always missing with my 981 S. 981 S never felt like a fast car per say while the 718 feels like a lightening fast go kart. It’s simply a much more fun and pleasurable driving experience, more refined.
Every person I encounter that wants to talk engine sound simply isn’t understanding how little that even matters. Never once have I said I miss the sound of my 981. It had a beautiful hum, especially with the exhaust button engaged, but my 718 feels in every way like a technological and more refined step forward. With each generation Porsche figures it out little by little.
@@LateNightDateNight say all you want about the 718 but no way in hell it feels 100 years old in comparison , hell even a 987 won’t feel that old compare to the 718 . 981s is a great car and the interior is merely identical . For you to talk and make such bold statement just ruins ppls dreams. Just cause you own a 718 doesn’t mean all other Boxsters / caymans are inferior. Hate how you use words that are totally not true to what the actual product is.
@@LateNightDateNight 981s was not meant to be fast nor does a 718 . Both cars are aim for handling . Obviously you get better torque on the 718 due to the turbo but if you want linear responsive throttle inputs there’s no way you can beat a NA motor. Therefore to each it’s own and the 981 does not feel 100 years old . Despite you being sarcastic or not , that statement is pretty idiotic tbh
Really appreciate the video. I am curious about an additional car. I know you didn’t like the C7 Zr1 on the track but I wonder how a C7 GS would stack up. I have one and do enjoy it but wonder about it against the 3 you tested to day. I believe the current price range is around 55-66k. Its a wide car with poor rear 3/4 visibility so not as good as a city car as the other 3 but offers an open top experience / high limits / reliability and relatively free revving V8. I would offer mine but I live in MS.
The ZR1 is the only C7 I've reviewed. Would love to do the GS. Seems like a great car.
I haven driven C7 GS, GR Supra, and 718 S. I can give some opinions I guess. The Supra feels like a monster in the lower end but at the top end, you could feel its losing power, while the C7 GS is still pulling at the top end. However, it’s more docile in the lower end. C7 GS and the Supra have the same handling capability, which is really really good. Both feel heavy. C7’s transmission is not as fun. Supra has the burble. The C7 has the V8 vibration. I like both engines.
The 718 S is not as fast but it’s plenty fast. The four cylinders, dare I say, sounds better than the other two 🫢. The Cayman/Boxster platform is just too good. It’s light. It balances.The steering and the seating position make you feel like you are wearing the car. I felt like wearing my old running shoes. Handling is unmatched of course. The car just turns itself. This is why my dream car is the 718 Spyder and no others.
The 718 would definitely have benefited from disabling SoundAktor. Fake engine noise invariably ruins the analog feel of cars and makes them sound like a blender. I have yet to see a remotely decent execution on the concept. The GTS 2.5 also has an advantage over the GTS 4.0 in terms of tunability. a Stage 1 93 octane tune from APR brings it up to 442 crank horsepower.
Oh...I forgot about that thing! I disabled mine the first night of ownership and never thought about it again.
Honestly I feel like the Supra offers amazing value for under $60k new.
I can say I miss my M2C in terms of an every day driver I could take to the track and then back home. My gripe with the M2 was how much work you had to put into driving it at the limit on the track. That weight (which is even more than the regular M2 by 200lbs) would definitely rear it’s ugly head when on the track. Daily use, it was more than plenty and very fun to hoon through corners!
I hope to some day drive the Supra in a manual on track and hope to fall in love!
Will never understand why bmw didnt give this m2 the "M" engine. It basically should have been called a 240i
I know I’m in the minority, but I’d drive the flat four in the Porsche. I kinda like the exhaust note
Dang it again? No cow pun?! I want a cow pun next time, please.
Would be interesting to see how a base cayman would fare in this comparison. It would be closer price wise to the Supra.
Love seeing a properly priced sports car, versus just charging 40,000 over its value for a badge. Porsche has lost its way, and its roots
Tempting me to buy a Supra MT in burnout white 💙
Unfortunately the M2 isn't 30k range in good condition. More towards 40k to 50k, 45K average.
If you think in terms one of the last pure ICE cars would you rather take a BRZ (light, NA) or Supra manual (semi light, more power) ?
You should do an OG M2 vs 981 Cayman S
I love driving the M2 in the rain because the rear end will unexpectedly kick out, and regaining control is so rewarding and fun.
This episode was filmed in Swiss Alps. Nice comparison.
Sub 40 degrees summer tires are useless. My GR Supra had no traction period with the michelin pilot SS
Hey Fenton, put in the order for the GR Supra manual as your next upgrade from the GR 86. :) It is a good 6-7 months wait, ask me how I know :)
You know someone's from Cali when they say "Mr. Cows" 😂
IMO, it's easier to produce an MR that's dedicated to being a sports car and nothing else, than it is to produce an FR coupe that is supposed to be more of an all rounder. I guess this is why Porsche don't bother doing FR coupes, the only FR's they produce are SUV's.
So as a sports car, obviously the Cayman was always going to come out on top over the M2 and the 'Supra'
Porsche are the king's of Sports Cars. They imo have the best track focused sports car (GT4RS) and a wide range of fantastic road focused sports cars. It's what they do.
but how come you and the UA-camr Jubbal & cars have identical content? Same cars, same comparison, same thumbnails even… it’s good content don’t get me wrong but it’s confusing to see. Maybe you guys should join forces
would love to see you do a head to head comparison of the manual supra vs the new nissan z
Should’ve put the caption “Holy cow “ 😅
OMG! GET OUT OF THE SUPRA! (Just kidding. At about 17:15 it looks like there is someone in a light colored jacket lurking in the rear hatch area. Later you don't see it.) Given the near-snowy conditions, what was your ambient temperature? Just curious, because if these are pure summer performance tires (not all-season) you are possibly running them below recommended temperature range, and they might be a little stiff. The M2 is obviously the odd man out here, given that it is based on the coupe and has a rear seat, but if you need the utility, the other two aren't even on the table. Glad to see that Toyota took the effort to make the MT an excellent one. For the 86 fans, it is unfortunate that they couldn't graft the Supra automatic into the 86 instead of that Lexus sourced 6-speed auto. Even if you hate automatics, the more 86/BRZ they sell, the better the odds that they will continue to make and sell them. Having a good automatic might help keep overall sales volume higher. Great job with the drives and review.
Do I think GR Supra Manual is worth $60K no, but in the U.K we have Used Autos for $50K which I’m aiming for. Interesting comparison went as I thought it would. Surprised gearbox in GR Supra better than GR86 / BRZ but nice to hear Toyota tuned the GR Supra gearbox well.
Love that Supra 👏🏻
I know that Livermore road like the back of my hand! Used to rip my s2000 through there! Lol
Question for Fenton and other M2 fans/owners. N55 M2? Or M2 Comp? I much prefer the sound of the N55 and that the original M2 is a bit cheaper but wanted to see peoples opinions and preferences between the two. Thanks!
I had the M2 Comp and LOVED the S55 despite the noise it made. That being said, I feel like the M2 with the N55 is more playful and not as serious as the Competition. The competition is ready to take to the track anytime, anywhere while the N55 M2 is a great, fun car to rip around on the streets. You can make the N55 M2 a track car with very little modifications (brakes, tires, maybe cooling).
I actually compared both on track and found the N55 to be slower than the S55 by a few good seconds. Either choice is great but depends on how you plan to use the M2.
@@VictorPitstop Thanks for the thought out reply! I definitely would intend to use the M2 as a fun, street car so I think the non comp really does make more sense. I prefer the looks slightly as well and the price being lower isn't something I'd complain about! I'm planning on buying an S2K in the next months specifically for track duty so the M2 most likely wouldn't even make it out there. Awesome you got to compare both on track. I wish it was easier to do that. I really want to back to back a 981 GT4 and the 718 to see if the 981 will be the same as the N55 to me. Cheaper and more fun, making it an easy choice.
@@VictorPitstopActually a decent, unbiased review.
Great comparison. I just picked up an M2C. I was looking for a Supra but mark ups steered me away. I agree about the seating position and the feel of the manual. Could use some improvement.
Best part is, you can always fix that with aftermarket parts
Hm.. so I’ve been following your channel for the last year and I agreed/liked most of your takes. But I had a completely different experience with my Supra.
Some background- I owned a 981S/6spd, A91 SE manual Supra, G80 m3 50jahre, and a street/track 128i (which now has 235whp, lsd, coilovers, etc).
When I got the Supra, I was legitimately excited for a “cayman” replacement- a $60k-ish 2 seater with great driving dynamics and premium feel. After all, I’m a big BMW guy and the Supra was very much a Z4M coupe replacement type car.
I regret to say that the Supra was very disappointing to me in a number of ways and I sold it almost immediately (after doing 3 autocrosses with it). Here’s my take:
1. Shifter, while very notchy, was almost too notchy. I preferred my 128’s shifter tbh (which I also prefer over the m2’s gearbox). The shifter was also set back a little too far back (like an Aston) and I had to do this “right angle” thing with my arm to shift properly. Clutch also felt it engaged a bit too high for my liking.
2. Steering - while very quick and direct, lacked so much feel. It felt like I was operating a Logitech steering wheel. The fast steering was very nice to have in autocross though. It made the car feel very light. However, when I steered the car, it almost felt like the turning wheels were closer to the middle of the car versus out to the front. Almost like it needed more caster. Could my alignment have been off? Maybe. But the sensation that I experienced was very weird and I didn’t feel like I could trust the car. It did feel better in an autocross setting, but around time, it felt weird and disconnected.
3. Throttle and brakes were awesome. No complaints. Minimal turbo lag. Best brakes I’ve had on a BMW.
4. Power - it could not put the power down between 1-2. Even when I was being very smooth in feeding the throttle, the immense wave of torque overwhelmed the whole chassis. On a 1-2 shift (while being smooth with throttle), the torque would jolt the chassis and it would do this squishy reflex thing. It did not feel like I could put the power down. Maybe it was due to the short wheelbase, FR layout. It wouldn’t be fair to compare this to the Cayman’s MR layout but even the G80 M3 was supremely better at this. More on this later.
5. Seating position/size - I just could not find a good seating position. I couldn’t get low enough and the car felt so tiny inside. Cayman wins big time here. Seats were comfy but not as good as even Porsche’s 14 way seats, IMO. I’d also hop into my G80 for A/B drives and the new M bucket seats (and the driving position they offered) are clearly superior than the Supra’s.
Overall, the car felt a bit too digital for me (which is weird because I’m about to compare it to the G80 M3). I wish I loved it because it was a very nice, appropriate price point for what you got.
While owning this Supra, I also owned that G80 M3 and the 128. The Supra made the M3 feel *immense* in its feel and connection. Granted, I had the bucket seats (which I loved, btw), the G80 had WAY more steering feedback and chassis connection. Older BMW’s would’ve killed to have the G80’s chassis advancements (I’m looking at the E39 M5- which the G80 seems to be a replacement for with its big size and power. You always felt you could put all 500hp+ down even in RWD mode. BMW clearly saved the best for themselves and I suspect the new G87 M2 will be very good because of how good the G80 was (though porky).
Then I’d hop into my little 128 and it was like having ginger while eating sushi. The 128, in all it’s lowly form, was a palate cleanser, revealing good FR balance, spiky-ness from its short wheelbase, and has very good FR behaviors: brake, turn in and trail, feed throttle, wot- traditional stuff. Yet I loved driving my 128 and I really disliked the Supra.
At the end, the Supra was sold in 2mo after 3 autocrosses. I had fun with it but I just couldn’t gel with it the way I did with a G80 M3 (which should’ve been more digital) and even my 128, let alone a Cayman.
My 2 cents. Appreciate your reviews.
Mr Cow 😂 ; Trans cow 😂, great video, great review, thank you, great commentary, 💯💯💯💯
Haven't seen snow in 11 years and say it should make for more fun. I'm glad you didn't end up in a ditch lol. Love the supra, fantastic package.
I live in Chicago and drive my Cayman GTS 4 seasons. No rust. The plastic under-tray and Porsche's best in the business corrosion protection is great. Build quality on my '06 Cayman S made me favor Porsche for a replacement. Tried a Carrera T and got bored quick. Traded ASAP for this '18 Cayman GTS. It's gonna be hard to want something else when the time comes. Great machine.
Oof. Driving on summer tires in the canyons while it's cold and snowing is a bad idea. Good way to wrap yourself around a tree.
M2 and Supra would be suit for DCT or AT. 718 has PDK and MT both good. From my experience.
Save the manuals !.
I wonder how the driving experience in a M2 competition compares to that cayman gts
I'll be reviewing an M2C soon hopefully
shoutout to mr cows
Snow and Cows lmao. The next version of Cocaine Bear
Wow
Am surprised the supra shifter feel is even better than the 718.
BMW shifter feel is known to be trash.
BMW should really stop calling themselves the “ultimate driving machine” before they cause a class action lawsuit for false advertisement 😂
The cayman also has torque vectoring
Did they really get rid of the auto-stop/start for the manual Supras? The spec-sheet said they did. It's cool to see a modern manual sports car with no stop/start, cylinder deactivation, skip-shifting, etc.
do not understand that Supra rear trunk is open into the cockpit… !?
Those cows. 😍😍
Three of the best German recent sport cars*
I think this review went straight to the garbage as soon as I saw freezing temps, snow, and original run flat Michelin pilot super sport tires from 2018 on the M2. It is not a “German muscle” car, it’s precisely the opposite.
Dude - you put the M2 into MDM mode - not sport or sport + :D
Thanks for another great head to head video review! You're right about the tail-happy nature of BMWs. Even when not driving
super aggressivel my rear tires were down to the cords, on the inside edge, after only 10,000 miles. Mr. cows? Even in this age
of gender fluidity that's a bit of a stretch.
Denis: I would take it to a good shop and have alignment checked. If you have negative camber, you need to have near zero toe settings. If the car has been lowered without an alignment, you get the sort of wear you describe above.
@@tombrown6329 Tom, Thanks very much for taking the time to reach out. I've had 2 stock coupes, an e46 and an e92, both with staggered wheels and tires. Both suffered from the same rear tire wear pattern, insides down to the cords while the outer sides still had plenty of tread. The front tires wore evenly so it didn't occur to me that an alignment was necessary. There was a lot to like about the Bimmers but a lot to dislike as well, so a change was in order. After 5 years of owning a 981 CS and 2 more years with my current 78 GT4, I couldn't be happier.
Man it sucks to hear that the M2 is a bit loosey goosey. I want it to be the agile track focused option for good value on the used market but it sounds like it just isn't that. Maybe some mods would sharpen it up
I’ve done a few things to my M2C. Minimal mods have really made a difference. AutoSolutions short shift kit, ground control camber plates, square wheels and tires, stiffer transmission mount, coded out auto rev match. These little changes have made the car an absolute blast, but also yielded major improvements in lap times. Most particularly, I would say a square setup on the M2 (with a good alignment) produces magic. So tossable and nimble, yet capable and highly controllable.
Come to think of it, I don’t believe I’ve ever driven a road car as neutral as a square-fitted M2C. Well, maybe my highly modified track-focused ND2. That’s more of a track weapon though. The M2C has excellent road manners and versatility, yet it is also optimal for a variety of driving pleasures. Excessive oversteer or grip and all-out pace, your choice. My M2 was intended to be a compromise. A “settle” kind of thing, since it was going to serve as a second “family” car and have a rear facing child seat. Shocked me how much I’ve fallen for this car. I’ve owned more exotic, more capable, etc. However, the M2C does more things well than all the others, especially considering that each one of my cars gets track time. Just my personal experience!
his description of the MT basically matches most all BMW MTs, so it’s really their calling card it seems, not an outlier.
Going from a Japanese-car MT & jumping into a BMW MT has always been a bit of shock, IMO.
All Bimmer shifters suck. Very robust mechanical components in every BMW gearbox, but you’d never know by feel of the shifter. Hondas and Mazdas humiliate M-car shift feel. Again, the internals of most BMW M transmissions are pretty bulletproof though. Can’t say that about the Miata’s ND1 transmissions (just to take a recent example)! Good thing the Supra has a BMW-selected ZF manual box.
@@chaseespinoza4288
A friend of mine who doesn’t usu drive MTs (has dual clutch M3) once asked me to describe the difference .
I said “Honda/Mazda feels like a well-oiled bolt-action rifle ; BMW feels like shifting a banana through oatmeal “
(I’m not hating on BMWs though ; I have one)
You’re the first to not comment on how cramped the Supra interior is so I take it you are a smaller guy haha
Great review, I’m literally trying to decide between a manual Supra or a Cayman GTS with PDK.
Supra is the best for the price
How does compare BRZ to the M2? Is more fun the BRZ right?😌
This should be a base cayman or a cayman t, not a GTS! That GTS is nowhere near these two cars price wise!
All I hear is how bad the OG M2 is compared to the other two… and I know it’s true 😂
It’s not, not sure what this guy is smoking
The 4cyl caymans are going to fall a lot in value. not as much as normal cars, but much more than the flat 6 ones. The future bargain porsche.
No, they will definitely plummet. Give it 5 years and they'll be dirt cheap.
@@iluvcakes19 U right. They'll be gettinf whumped on with bigger turbos and stuff too. Will be interesting at least
@@hammychan1 that'll be funny
I agree, but the funny thing is, watching and listening to this video, it didn't sound anywhere near as bad as I expected
@@tameracingdriver I think it's more so that people, especially enthusiasts, don't want a 4 cylinder Porsche sports car. Especially when it's pushing $100k.
I think the base M3 would have been a better comparison. It's RWD, less $ than the 718, and the GR has the same manual 6 with basically the same S58 engine, but with single turbo.