How the Ghost in the Shell Remake Betrays the Source Material
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
- Ghost in the Shell is a great movie. Ghost in the Shell is not... damnit, that's gonna get confusing, isn't it?
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In the depths of his Mother's Basement, Geoff Thew creates videos analyzing the storytelling techniques of anime and video games. He has been named the number one Worst UA-cam Anime Reviewer by The Top Tens.
"sir your card has been declined" "Well time to make for SAO videos" IM FUCKING DEAD
Biotechan rip in peace
Biotechan dead from the overdose of cringe? Because I am.
Edgy
Also, thats not a credit card
I tried to laugh with your joke, but I don't understand a f'k of what you're saying.
The crux of this entire problem is why take the Ghost in the Shell license if you don't trust the material to be interesting enough? You got Scarlet, just call it Cyborgs in New York and boom there you go, same movie without having to pay thousands in royalties.
Same reasoning can be done against any adaptation, if there are going to be some changes.
Heck....i heard that Ghost in the Shell manga is different in tone and even some story details, from the anime film.
If that is true, then using your reasoning I can attack that anime film, from 95, and say "Why make Ghost in the Shell anime film, if you dont trust the material to be interesting enough?".
I think Nerdwriter articulates this better, but essentially the problem with the recent movie adaptation is they use the same imagery and nomenclature but completely disconnected by the plot or thesis of the story.
I would ask then, is there any rule that it must be connected by the plot or thesis of the story?
We see it all the time, people make adaptations and make changes, either because medium is different and changes are inevitable, or because of some other reason.
Movie was never supposed to be a remake, a shot by shot retelling of the story, nor existence of the movie diminishes the anime film. Like the upcoming Death Note, it is not supposed to be a remake, it is a reboot, with a different perspective.
I mean, the only justifiable reason someone being angered by the movie is to desire live action remake and not get it. Other than that, I dont really see much of justification being angered by the existence of the movie.
I'm not angered by the movie, I just think it's a horrible adaptation. You don't have to go shot for shot a retelling, but when you take all the iconic scenes and just blend them together without a coherent thesis to your film, then what's the point in spending millions for "artistic adaptation" when you don't artistically adapt?!
Why do you think the movie has no coherent thesis?
And it is horrible adaptation by what standards?
If the thing about manga is true, that anime film is different by tone and some other things than manga, then why would anime film from 95 be a good adaptation?
You know I never realised the scene where Makoto sees herself all over the city was meant to be literal. I thought it was something about being lost about who you are, while worrying about if humanity is lost through the cyborg process.
Same. There sre alot of nuances i definitely missed just from watching this. I need to go back and watchnit again soon.
My question is why Hollywood would choose to adapt Ghost in the Shell. As great as the franchise is, it isn't one that anyone can pick up and enjoy. A lot of people would probably be turned off by the lengthy philosophical diatribes the franchise is often known for, for one thing. There are plenty of other anime properties that have much simpler stories that can appeal to a much larger group of people.
Chris Chen it's an old franchise with several versions that have different interpretations. they probably assumed it would cause way less problems than adapting something like naruto (which I pray with every fibre of my being is never done. I love the series but after Boruto they should let it die)
Most likely the execs saw Terminator fused with Robocop and female protagonist for the SJWs. The few Anime that I feel could ever get a wide audience would be DBZ, One Piece, and Gundam. As much as people hate it Speed Racer was a step in the right direction it just needed a better budget.
As much as people love to view Hollywood movies as shallow cash grabs, these movies are actually acts of love by people who enjoyed the original source material. You may not agree with some of the changes they've made to the story or some other element that differs from the source material, but I believe even Michael Bay took pride in presenting Transformers in a way he felt honored the source material... again, even if we may disagree with his decisions.
My point is, the reason it's Ghost In The Shell and not some other anime is because the writers and director wanted Ghost In The Shell. They weren't just looking for easy money.
Can we really think that if the movie itself supports the idea that the writers and director didn't even SEE the original series, and just read a Wikipedia article on it?
It's really only Oshii's version that's filled with philosophy rants. That's not really anywhere to be found in the manga. It's just a staple of Oshii's work.
It's not that they "white washed" the characters. They "white washed" the plot.
? What does that even mean?
They "Hollywoodized it" Basically dumbing down or changing the message of the movie for mainstream western audiences.
midnightsg they washed the plot out of its interesting parts
Thanatos388 American action films are known for being just a bunch of dumb action with very little substance. The live action film Americanized or "whitewashed" the plot by dumbing it down and ruining its themes.
Thanatos388 it means they dumbed it down
"My name is Major"
And with that I started having flashbacks to Mario Mario and Luigi Mario and any movie that reminds me of the live action Super Mario Bros movie immediately earns my hatred.
The Mario movie is the goat of Japanese gone Hollywood Lolol
I'm getting real tired of obvious corporate bullshit ruining stories with potential.
come to think of it The Matrix is a far better adaptation to GiTS
bennymountain1 To say nothing of Stand Alone Complex.
Become a corporation and portray the stories in the light you feel they deserve.
Here's another thing... No, this film DIDN'T need any huge star power to get itself off the ground. Ghost in the Shell is practically the Star Wars of Japan. It's a huge name in itself. What's more, just look at films such as Iron Man and The Force Awakens. Nobody really cared who Robert Downy jr. and Daisy Ridley were until these films came out. It's not unheard of.
Lugbzurg you seem to forget that the movie is an American adaptation so it should appeal to the Americans that are going to see it first and as anime is still pretty much a niche community the number of people who would go to see the adaptation of a movie that I, an anime fan of 11 years only heard about early this year will of course be small. also, the Japanese people actually liked the movie.
AND LOOK HOW THAT TURNED OUT!
Yeah, funny how you assume you have a point here. Also, you just recently hearing about Ghost in the Shell isn't a point against it. That's just being out of touch, like never hearing about Dragon Ball Z or Evangelion. It's one of the largest names in animé history. Also, what good is it to say "the Japanese people actually liked the movie"? What does that have to do with anything? How does that discredit a thing? Heck, plenty of them hated the movie too, so bringing up such a thing is doubly-pointless.
The film gathered controversy from insulting the source material and the audience alike, much like last year's Ghostbusters reboot, and if there's anything made abundantly clear from these fiascos, it's that controversy does NOT work in your favor if it comes from showing contempt from the film's roots and fanbase.
Lugbzurg calmato. Those are interesting point though (though me not hearing about something that's meant to be one the largest name in anime history is kind of contradictory ). I'm rereading the first comment and realised mentioning the Japanese liking the movie was unnecessary so there's that.
Though doesn't ghost in the shell lend itself to different interpretations? After all, stand alone complex and the original movie are quite different.
Actually no. Ghost in the Shell is famous in Japan, yes. But the rest of the world? Not so much. It is only well known in the anime communities. Outside of it, if you asked a million random people on the street, only a tiny percentage would've known what you're talking about. You have to accept that anime still isn't as wide spread as we'd like it to be.
Robert Downey jr. was really famous well before Iron Man. And the Star Wars franchise has been globally popular for a long time. There's more than one way to ride.
Thank God that Blade Runner movie turned out incredible.
it did?
@@g0ldencut ABSOLUTELY
And why god was it so absolutely criminally underrated
Tastes in pacing aside, Blade Runner had nothing to do with cultural appropriation...
Too bad nobody went to see it loll. But I agree it was really good.
Bravo on the Tachikoma segment! Those cute little spiderbots doing philosophy on the run is one of the best parts of the whole franchise!
Well Hollywood has always been the "fuck you" to entertainment as a whole in recent years. From constant pandering and restrictions to ruining beloved films with remakes and shittiness. One thing I especially hate from Hollywood is how the animated movies are all 3D pure cgi now, I miss the days of 2D looking animated films.
Pyroskies that's mostly the animation studios decision to make 3D not Hollywood. Disney doesn't want to make 2d because the last one flop. Princess and the frog. Sadly 2d movie have a history of not making enough money.
Pyroskies then give them the money they need for them to profit off 2D movies anymore. Its cost effective and if CGI had been at the stage it is now when walt was around, theyd do it too. Its so easy to blame hollywood for something that really isnt their fault. Blame Disney and the fact its really difficult to make 2d movies with quality whereas cgi uses the same talent in half the time.
Anscer Ram are you responding to me?
Edwin Ramirez Nah original commenter dude. I agree with you.
Anscer Ram k, Thought you were
“All anime movies are bad, all anime movies will be bad for the rest of recorded history. Guess what guys, I liked this movie because it’s animated. If you take that away I won’t like it as much. *I don’t, I don’t understand why they don’t get it* ”
-Cosmonaut Variety Hour
Not all tbh, have u watch alita battle angel?
I think that only applies to some anime and not all anime. You could've said the same thing about comics 20 years ago and it would've sounded accurate.
@@franccs yes and it looks creepy af in live action
I really like your analysis but I do have a point to make. Motoko (at least in the anime series) IS special. In the second season it’s hinted in an episode explaining the connection between Kuze and Motoko that they were both two of the youngest people ever to transfer to being fully cybernetic due to a (plane?) crash. He was paralyzed and she would visit him in the hospital after she had her surgery. However they were very early models so the dexterity was not perfect and Motoko could not fold a paper crane. That’s why, in the opening sequence from the first season, you see a child’s hand accidentally breaking a doll. She did not have full use of her body yet.
Well the ghost in the shell 2017 movie may have been a disappointment, but the attack on titan movie was worse and that movie wasn't even a Hollywood movie.
Both Attack on Titan movies were absolute garbage... I watched both... and suffered.
This year's Japanese made Mazinger Z live action film is probably going to be terrible... but I'm excited anyway.
Japan is shit at making live action movies of anime.
I FUCKING KNOW RIGHT.
It was SO awful, titans should only be drawn, they look silly when done realistically.
The entire movie felt like it was lagging and made cheaply by teens.
Tbh, is ANYONE good at making live action movies of anime? The concept itself seems to me like a way to hamstring a movie from the very start. Live action adaptations of anime just aren't a good idea in general.
When they casted scarlet the first thing I noticed was that she actually looked similar to the animated major and originally I had no negative feelings toward it since the whole movie kind of looked like they were going for a more diverse society. What bothered me more than anything was that she had already been in movies where she was the lead bad ass super spy. Even when I first saw the trailer in theatres I thought it was a trailer for a black widow spin off. Otherwise I was pretty okay with it just because she looked similar. keep in mind, the majors body isn't her body anyways.
Agreed, she was a fine choice for the Major, the main issue was the writing for sure
But then she meets her Asian Mom who somehow just knows Scarlett is her Japanese daughter despite Jo not acting Asian at all. It was so painfully awkward.
For a anime live action adaptation, its the best out of all of them, but that doesn't say much. I like it, but not as much as the original. However I do like Scarlett Johansson's performance.
Armorwing01 that's a bit like saying it's the least stinky piece of fecal matter that was left on your porch.
Armorwing01 lady snowblood and edge of tomorrow
Rem Ogaki exactlty
False.
It's more like saying "out of all of the piece of shit adaptations, this movie is a loaf of bread".
Rurouni Kenshin
I'm very understanding of how staying completely faithful to the source material can hurt the film because things that work in one medium might not work in a different one. The way this movie changed its source material completely changed the themes of ghost in the shell and that's what made ghost in the shell what it is.
On the upside the movie looks pretty and I happened to like Scarlet Johansson as major.
Finally. People seem to be forgetting that Masamune Shirow's GitS is almost a satirical comedy, unlike anything Oshii put to his spin on the franchise. What's wrong with Americans doing their own thing for something THEY bough the rights to?
"What's wrong with Americans doing their own thing" - if they had done something a little bit original, why not, instead of making this weird mutant which is visually as close a copy as possible a lot of the time, but then dumbs the plot down to generic mcrevenge - and no, there is not even a reason for that. Did not Inception make good munny? And that pretentious turd, drat, I do not remember the name... time travel, plotholes, that annoying Dylan poem on loop - but in any case, it was still more challenging than this - something like Dark knight was a lot more intellectual as well; so it is not like the audiences are all certified morons.
YOU don't have to like it, but THEY can do whatever the f*ck they wanted with something they brought.
Oh and Inception, The Dark Knight, Interstellar, while more intelligent, doesn't even come close to the level of GitS 95, which included Arthouse storytelling that mainstream audiences are going to hate. Those films are intelligent on the plot, not on the storytelling. Inception requires exposition throughout to explain what the hell is going on. Interstellar literally spelled its underlying theme out the same way this movie spelled out "Ghost in the Shell". The Dark Knight also included an ending summation for anyone not caught up. The original GitS basically have one confusing line to end the movie.
Of course they can, as is proven by the fact they did. As it flopped, maybe they should have thought it through a bit more - mind you, for anyone who has not seen the 95 version, I would still say this one is worth watching, at least when it comes to Netflix - visuals are good, SJ is good in the role, it is an OK dumb scifi film. Just cannot fathom why it was made.
1:15
At least Bladerunner 2049 was really good.
Edit: That credit card joke gave me life.
Damn, you made me realize how much I missed the Tachikomas.
There is pretty much nothing better than walking battle tanks with children's voices discussing philosophy.
As someone who understands the core themes of the original movie, I thought this was an above average movie. Rupert Sanders seems to understand this as well, because, albeit different than the original movie, they brought those themes forward in this adaptation as well. The movie isn't perfect, there are some pacing issues and they could've delved deeper into the philosophical concepts of GITS. It was honestly a very good effort on adapting the original to be watched by a wider audience.
EpICmAN Gwow above average? Yeah ok. It’s average at best givin what it’s trying to adapt. Blade Runner 2049 is above average.
@@TheGililgi i don’t think you know what above average entirely means, above average means about a 6/10. It’s not an immediate 10/10, you’re right. The blade runner sequel is phenomenal and above average but it’s not a crime to say this film is above average for what it’s trying to do
Isn't the whole "Transhumanism made against one's will" thing treated in RoboCop and Deus Ex?
yeah, this was one of the core imports for the manga when it was written back in the late 80s, that it was based on a society where cops were cyber-enhanced to take on criminals using mecha, soldiers, tanks, etc inspired heavily by robocop in 1987.
hence why batou looks like a german american 80s action hero. Deus Ex would have been robocop inspired. Though, you could argue that Gunther and Anna were homages to Batou and Kusanagi.
Yeah, Robocop is a landmark film for the 80s, and the PG-13 rating was a slap in the face to what made that original awesome. Although, even most of Robocop 2 sucked (and we don't talk about Robocop 3), so just the first one.
Yeah. She's more okay with her situation in the source material. Hollywood needs female characters to be conflicted tho.
yes but waaaay better
I dont give a shit about white washing...i'm asian..and i'm a huge Ghost in the Shell fan. My biggest critique is the dumbing down of the movie..but I understand it because the movie needs to be able to rake in moderate sci fi fans...not JUST hardcore Ghost fans.
Agent Migs You can have anybody act as a character of a different cultural origin, just depends on execution. But like you said, a huge flaw of this film was dumbing down the source material for the general public.
Agent Migs my biggest problem with it as a GitS fan was that they kinda inverted the message of the original but as a cyberpunk fan I was love drunk
Bishop Gale True True.
The original GiTS was pretty big with western audiences for an anime movie back in the day. There's no reason to believe the movie needs to be dumbed down to appeal to wider audiences, being a big budget live action movie with a big name lead already does that.
Agent Migs well said.
you shouldn't worry about the next blade runner. it's directed by denis villeneuve. this puts all fears to rest.
This puts a lot of things I hadn't been able to articulate into words. thank you!
Ghost in the Shell is inextricably linked to...
Hong Kong
GITS is all about Japan. The Hong Kong inspired streets are Chinese slums that had grown in the outskirts of New Port City (Niihama) when refugees emigrated during and after WW3/4 into Japan.
Er the anime film IS set in Hong Kong
ONLY in the filmography of Mamoru Oshii, the original manga take Japanese structures at Japan, the anime and another adaptations do the same
Yes , but the scenes he is talking about all happen in the anime film , which is in Hong Kong , and I know that the manga is in Japan , but he is not talking about the manga but the anime film predominantly.
The anime film is set in Japan, dipshits.
The Hollywood depiction of Ghost in the Shell's ending, with Motoko refusing merger, for fear of loss of her individuality, speaks perfectly of western attitudes toward the self. 'Fear loss of identity, thus, face imminent destruction of it, instead of compromising.'
I suspect American audiences had a greater reaction to the Major seeing copies of herself in the original movie then Eastern audiences. The loss of individuality is a terrifying concept in American culture.
no you just are not an individual enough
@@BlackCroLong I mean, personally, AS a singular example of an "American audience", I thought the luxury of being able to have my 'ghost' swim around between multiple bodies, or to visit someone's brain like it was a movie theater, was more interesting than oppressive. I suspect it's something to do with the Major in Stand Alone Complex, though, who would be better described as a royal badass, than a sufferer of existential questioning, as the 1994 animated film Motoko might better fit.
It would have been an interesting movie... had it not been a GitS adaptation. If you are going to adapt anime to live action, try to be faithful. If you want to make it more of a new retelling of the story, advertise it as such (like Edge of tomorrow). Kenshin's adaptation was fantastic, and we know Japan doesn't always make faithful adaptations either.
well, they did say it was influenced by the original movie as well as the anime show (hence Kuze) rather than a direct adaptation...
actually, I'm pretty sure the director outright said it was a different story to the rest of the franchise since all GiTS stories tend to be different.
And honestly, it probably shouldn't have had the GitS name attached to it. This is always an issue with hollywood where its higher ups have this backwards mentality that if ONE thing that has a high profile name attached to it is successful (MCU films being the prime example) that EVERYTHING doing the same will be successful and it won't ever hurt the product in the long run ever.
If something carries itself as being an adaptation or the exact same name, it risks being scrutinized in a way it likely doesn't need to be. It's... a rough analogy, but I'd say if someone tried to push Steven Universe as being an 'american anime' or 'american Utena' rather than simply 'inspired by anime series such as utena' you'd have that property being heavily criticized to an unhealthy extent.
This is not to downplay Geoff's criticism, it is meant to support it. This film clearly would have been better having the word 'alternative' involved in its marketing somewhere. But in further support of the criticism, it in fact seems like a major issue with this film is also its failure to really commit to its message which goes in opposition of the original material.
GitS seems to be disappointment in the more intense forms of disappointment: Failed potential. Something like Guilty Crown, Kyousougiga, Cloverfield, Valvrave, Astral Ocean, -any- Shyamalan film, a good portion of pre-manga wrap up anime adaptations, Fallout 4, there's so many pieces of fictional media that I could go on about. A property that either presents itself with a failure to explore ideas it teases or hints at... Or worse, one which gets dragged down by having to live up to certain expectations. I say that having a moderate enjoyment of stuff I mentioned before, be it Fallout 4's new gameplay ideas but removal of old ones, Cloverfield's pleasantly immersive feel but limp sense of fulfillment (Amusingly enough mirrored in its successor), Valvrave's incredibly intense roller coaster ride of a show which gets chopped off at the hip via an AWFUL 3 minute epilogue or Kyousougiga's need for narrative cohesion ruining the whimsical episodic and philosophical tone it had as a whole.
We all want these things to deliver and they probably do in a certain capacity, but they don't as a whole. As for who to blame for that? It's a mix, sometimes it's the product itself, other times its ourselves. The quantity of each side though varies and there's always that (potential) issue of third party meddling. And of course, each property differs, which is why we may end up having different results like Death Note, Dragonball Evolution and more.
...It would be really nice if Death Note ended up being good.
Exept Edge of Tommorow is GOOD... (yeah, story is a lot dumber, ending is happy instead of open ending with MC becoming a massive edgelord, but it's not bad as it's not insulting the original)
...Wherein does Zenith implies Edge of Tomorrow is bad? Edge of Tomorrow is a fucking awesome movie and is a nice contrast to its source material, as good as All You Need Is Kill is.
I never once said Edge of Tomorrow is bad. I was implying that it was good and one of the reasons I found it that way is because they never said "an adaptation of," but rather "Based on the novel All you Need is Kill." By putting their own spin on it and making it very clear that it was not an adaptation but an alternate retelling, they made it stand alone from the novel and still be good. The Ghost in the Shell movie tries to ride off of the coattails of the original, but then has a hard time trying to count itself as a separate story, pulling elements right from the story without any attempt to change them.
If the movie hadn't been called "Ghost in the Shell," and the characters hadn't been ripped straight from the movie, I could have enjoyed it as an American telling of a great cyberpunk movie. But when you adapt a movie and give it the same exact title as its original source material, you are giving the viewers the impression that it is meant to be a faithful adaptation. Even moreso when you use a lot of material from the source.
Although the movie left me with mixed feelings, I'm still glad we got the film with Scarlet as Major. I'll take a Hollywood attempt at live action anime over another Marvel movie any day.
The original Ghost in the Shell stuck with me HARD. Its themes about what makes a human, the godly music, the atmosphere. The dialogue is sharp and intelligent. The remake just feels like “hee hee hoo hoo shiny gun sad backstory Japan robot go brrr”
“Guess I have to make more SAO videos!”
The original writers of Ghost in the Shell did not intend for her to be Asian. So That point about her not being Asian doesn’t really matter
Never had gotten the point of her body in the original anime film, being a mass produced unit. Brings a WHOLE new light to those scenes, thanks!
Wait... Isn't Bateau canonically french?
Oh French heritage atleast
LOL thanks for the Tachikoma bit. They always were the ones to break things down for us in layman terms, or at least translate our questions on screen so the writers could go, "hey don't worry we thought about that too!"
As for the movie. EVERYONE involved with the writing and script should be lobotomized and barred from ever touching writing equipment again.
Actually, when they showed people in Japan the live-action star of ghost in the shell; they liked it.
Some people claimed "it looked more anime-ish"
They didn’t say it looked “more animeish” when in the next video they still think anime characters look Japanese enough.
I wasn't expecting Hollywood to keep the same intelligence as the original movie. I can't imagine a general audience watching the Major and Batu spend 20 minutes of the film on a boat sharing a deep philisophical exchange. It would never work in the United States. I pretty much went in knowing the film would be dumbed down.
Secondly, I'm glad that they didn't do a paint by the numbers scene for scene remake of the original movie. That would have been pointless and a waste of time. I kind of like that they went their own direction. I also understand Ghost in the Shell to be a franchise that's open to different interpretations, not something that HAS to be anything. So seeing the usual stance the franchise takes being run in the opposite direction that it would normally go was actually very interesting to me.
Yes it does have a lot of cliches and can be predictable, but that didn't bother me much. I went into the film expecting it to be total crap, but it was actually fairly decent. Not the greatest movie ever made, but I'd say it was a solid 7. It had plenty of good moments. I think when people look back at this film they'll realize that.
What I did like was that they got artsy from time to time in the movie. The scene where she's touching that human girl's face was really interesting. I like how they tried to express a thought or idea without a ton of exposition, but rather through visuals. I wish they had done a little more of that given how much symbolism was in the original.
pretty much everything you list is why they shouldn't have made a _Ghost in the Shell_ movie. Hollywood takes a property, discards everything that defines that property, but keeps the name and a few random trappings. a good adaptation takes the source material and, y'know, _adapts_ it to fit the new medium. a bad 'adaptation', like this one, treats the source material like a special box of legos. it grabs some of the pieces it thinks are neat, throws the rest away, and then sticks those pieces onto something made out of regular legos.
movies like this, even if they're just 'okay' when viewed in a vacuum, are bad because they almost always ensure the source material will never get a proper adaptation. it would likely have been a better movie overall if they'd just looked at ghost in the shell as inspiration and made something entirely new with similar themes, instead of butchering the original and slapping the name on.
Well I'm sure maybe the core fans largely felt that way, but I felt as though it did a pretty decent job tackling a lot of the core themes of Ghost in the Shell just from an entirely different perspective. I wish they had focused more on their interpretation of what it means to be human and just how human the Major really was, but sadly they mostly left that to a few artsy scenes and never really tapped into it as deeply as they could've.
I kind of liked that they played up the memory aspect of it, and explored the concept of re-writing a person's memories to make them into something they aren't. That was kind of interesting, and something that the original very loosely tackled with the Garbageman.
I'm not sure what anyone was expecting from a live-action film, to be honest. I thought they did great visually with recreating the world and characters. I thought the story was decent, but definitely had areas where it could have been made better, and maybe they could have spent more time focusing on other members of section 9, but the original also had a heavy focus on the Major over other characters.
I think this is the closest we've ever gotten to a decent adaptation of an anime. I mean compared to Dragon Ball Evolution this is a masterpiece. I think it's a good sign that we're at least starting to head in the right direction with adaptations.
I think what the core fans fail to understand is that the film has to balance appeasing you while also keeping the film appealing to a general audience. It's one of the largest reasons I don't think Death Note would ever work in live action. The second that demon guy comes onto the screen it becomes a B film in the eyes of the general audience. There is no way to make him work in live action.
"just from an entirely different perspective"
Except Ghost in the Shell has always lended itself to different interpretations and ideas. I don't think any two versions have ever been exactly the same. It's kind of what I like about the series. I don't really consider the live-action movie to compare to Stand Alone Complex or the original movie, but I thought it did way better than I expected going in.
If you wanted the same story and the same ideas given to you a second time you could just watch the original movie again.
I have to agree with you for the most part, Blake. Good logic.
Hollywood turned "Ghost in the Shell" into "Robocop". Ironic slow claps for you, guys.
pmslevelboss no they didnt, they just told an original story rather then strictly following the manga
@@AVAL2775 which was basically the same story that Robocop had, the hurr durr evil big megacoporation story.
Wouldn't the manga be the source material?
Then you couldn't complain about the movie, since none of the anime adaptations were as good as the manga.
By the director's own admission, they cherrypicked from the 1995 movie and Stand Alone Complex. I don't remember for sure, but the manga might not have even been mentioned. I wouldn't be surprised if nobody at all involved in the production read the damn manga. Therefore, even though the manga is the source material for both the original movie and (loosely) the series, I'd call the anime the source material for the adaptation in question.
Dustin Hern Hanka Corp. was only ever mentioned in the manga. The live action movie had elements, story points, and characters from every GitS media out there. I actually enjoyed them bringing stuff from different things. Besides there’s no one true GitS continuity. The manga, movies, and both series are all their own respective things. In fact none of the adaptations follows the manga that much at all. In truth there is no “real” way to define Ghost in the Shell. Every iteration is completely different.
The source material is the whole franchise
As I understand it, the manga, the original film and the SAC series are all so diverse in their plot and tone that an adaptation of the animated film is not necessarily an adaptation of the manga.
HEY WE'RE GETTING THE CARD TAP THINGIES TOO
Slowly.
Painfully.
Contactless, had it for years in the UK.
Pay by slapping your card on a machine? So some guy can bump into you
in a crowd and charge a purchase to your card?
Dave Joseph lmao no u have to be specifically paying for something and then u just use contactless instead of inserting the card into the machine
eggs benedict -- how does the card know the difference?
Dave Joseph it doesn't but how would anyone be able to bump into you when they'd be way behind in the queue? Let alone tap your card into a small machine by the till with no-one noticing....
It would be interesting to see you cover Paprika.
Please DONT!!
Why not? it's an interesting movie
Leave what is sacred alone! :)
oh yeah, and also don't promote it, cuz we're the only ones who REALLY understand it...
It was meant to be joke, of course i would love to see a Paprika movie, but they need good director.
I Get that Ghost in the Shell was influencial, but if we're honest, Cyberpunk as a genre owes more to Blade Runner and especially the writing of William Gibson. Especially given how Ghost In The Shell and Neuromancer have very simmilar endings.
the creator of Ghost in the Shell said he was inspired and is a fan of blade runner
blade runner is just the great grandfather of cyberpunk and you’re right. the whole cyberpunk genre owes a lot to it but i think there’s certain themes blade runner originally had ghost in the shell presents better and a little more effectively plus more original spins on that idea
and that’s not even talking about the visuals
Your Name (Ki Wi No Na Wa) Was FINALLY in theater in my area, the movie was a great coping mechanism to prevent me from watching Ghost in the Shell (2017)
Kiwi?
Father Nick yes I messed up
ah yes the body switching Kiwi movie. quite the feels that one
"GitS cannot be untied to Japan"
*Shows street scenes from GitS 1995 based on Hong Kong".
ThatOneAsianBroChick Bro, you’re gonna hate the new SAC series on Netflix...
@Reborn In Rationality I feel like if it's not a GitS IP it would be okay not great. I do appreciate that it's trying to do its own thing. But I don't think its own thing is done very well. At least the action scenes were well done. But SAC never had stretches of action. They spent a lot of time describing the set-up of action. That's what set SAC apart, the realism.
It does try to touch on American politics, like the SAC trilogy touched on Japanese politics. But it's done without any subtlety at all, and came across as an edge lord writer trying to piss off both the liberals and the conservatives.
4:31 Off the top of my head, I can name one Asian actress who does action movies; Lucy Liu.
*You didn't respond to Oshii's comment?:*
"The Major is a cyborg and her physical form is an entirely assumed one. The name 'Motoko Kusanagi' and her current body are not her original name and body, so there is no basis for saying that an Asian actress must portray her. Even if her original body (presuming such a thing existed) were a Japanese one, that would still apply."
Also notice how these racist dipshits never complain about when Japanese have movies about non-Japanese cultures but refuse to have all the roles in those movies be the correct race? You can't both complain that America "whitewashes" stuff because they refuse to let non-whites get ahead, but also refuse to speak up about when it happens anywhere else. Or you could just support decent actors playing good roles and not care about the color of the actor unless it's something honestly plot related, such as Johnny / Sue Storm not looking related in the garbage Fantastic Four remake.
@@angrybellsprout I mean, I don't care about what race does what either way, but in Japan's defense, there are statistically FAR more Asians in America than there are foreigners in Asia. It would be no problem at all for America to make a movie about Japan starring an Asian, or a movie about Africans starring an African. But Asia? How many Mexicans live there? Or African/African-Americans? Or Americans? Russians? Indians? I could go on, but as I said, I don't really care. Just feels unfair to criticize an Asian society for not staring more races in their movies when (unlike America), Asia isn't as innately accustomed to different races as America. They see a "foreigner" walking down the street and they all stare in awe and interest. We see an Asian walking down the street and it's just one of the many people we'll forget we saw in a few minutes.
@@6ixlxrd me not caring isn't the same as these social justice idiots not caring
"Turning Godzilla into a Roland Emmerich disaster movie"
>shows clips of the very different Gareth Edwards film instead of the Roland Emmerich film
Nani? Geoff, who is your editor? They done goofed.
I think that was to illustrate how very much Godzilla _isn't_ a disaster movie.
Y'know, what with Godzilla flying perfectly parallel to the ground, while staying perfectly still, as some sort of comically cheap flying kick.
Arctangent Godzilla has never been consistent, and he has many times meant to represent disaster. The OG, 1984, Final Wars kinda, and the recent Japanese film. Geoff is wrong.
A "disaster film" isn't any film centered around a great disaster, it's a pretty formulaic thing.
Of course, there's the question of whether or not people really want to watch Godzilla in a film that centers around the actual devastation, or just want the rad and / or hilarious kaiju fights.
There's actually a deeper flaw in his little bit about Godzilla. The original Gojira was in a certain sense a disaster film, but he shows a clip from one of the sillier Godzilla films to try to shaw that "hollywood" (whoever that is) ruins everything. And plus, Emmerich Godzilla wasn't nearly as much of a disaster film as 2014 Godzilla, and even that wasn't a disaster film. The closest Godzilla film to an actual disaster film is the original.
Nevermind the fact that neither of those were ever meant to be remakes of any Godzilla film. Though given the rest of this video I wouldn't expect MB to understand the difference between a remake and an adaptation.
Wasn't the original Godzilla a metaphor for what happened in Hiroshima in WW2?
Honestly, I've learned that we should never really judge movies by how faithful they are to their source material. There may be a few exceptions though. But, by and large, we're watching someone else's vision on what they wanted to see from something they loved. A lot of times the changes they make aren't as interesting as the source material, and sometimes the changes they make improve the story from the source material.
I thought Ghost In The Shell could have been written better. It suffers from the stereotypical "American's don't get subtly" syndrome, spelling out what should be a revelation concluded by the audience themselves. I still enjoyed Ghost In The Shell though. It wasn't great, but it wasn't horrible. It didn't portray the plot in the most interesting way but it had some pretty good action sequences and it was tremendously fun to look at. Call it a guilty pleasure.
Lastly, and most importantly, I bet this movie has piqued the curiosity of many people who have never watched the original Ghost In The Shell. I don't think it was so bad that it left people uninterested. Quite the opposite! You could tell that the movie was working off of a series with a lot of depth. The movie didn't portray the theme very well, but it was clear that there was a lot going on in the GITS universe. I bet the movie helped introduce many people to the original anime series.
The Tachikoma part killed me.
funny as hell and to the point.
Batou's face just cemented it.
Everyone seems to forget that the manga and original film where different. I liked the live action movie being different, i also like how it had noods to the previous installments of the serious. Sure it has problems but it was a cool film. And it made me want more Cyberpunk movies and tv shows and well im glad that since this movie there have been a few Cyberpunk esque films, tv shows, and games coming out.
"a shell without a ghost"
Perfect summation.
I get a lot of the complaints, but even Stand alone complex was quite different from the source material and was rather great.
That being said, the movie was rather bland compared to the 1995 film, which again, was rather different than the source material.
The Stand Alone Complex explore a lot of themes that are already in the comics, and there are many plots that were born from the manga.
The only time whitewashing was the best option, but wasn't taken. FMA 2017
Bern0d Maybe Ed's and Al's Teacher not, but besides, yeah, I mean it plays in Europe
Juan Naym how the fuck does Xing sound European to you? Also Amestris sounds like middle eastern
DarksidersHUB Iirc, Amestris is based on Germany.
DarksidersHUB you do realize amestris represents germany and xing china right?? Lmfao
Shame how the remake flopped in theaters.
Remember seeing it opening weekend in IMAX, most of the audience there didn’t even know the original film or shows it was based on.
Basically treated it like another Si-Fi film without major promoting.
Okay. Another well done roast of a series adaptation. I am impressed and your comments are valid.
I am now going to go into why, despite me being a fan of Ghost In the Shell, I still enjoyed this adaptation.
See, I wanted to take my mom to see this. Since she's watched the original movie and some of the anime.
So I did some reading online about the reviews and such before we went to watch.
I found a snippet of info that stated, "This adaptation has blended the manga, the original movie, and the anime to make it's own original story. Akin to an AU but still paying homage to the original materials."
So I was aware that this adaptation movie was NOT going to be the best portrayal of the series it could have been and every die hard fan would expect. But mom and I loved going to see it at the theater. And unlike with the original movie and anime, I wasn't having to explain the details of the plot every five seconds.
So I for one am able to say it was a good movie that was entertaining to me and my mom.
"Would not exist without Mamoru Oshii's vision of Neo Tokyo". I love how people easily forget about Blade Runner, that predates GITS by a good 13 years.
The depiction of a futuristic metropolis in GITS and the subsequent influence on other stuff are derivative. Neither the scenery nor the slow pacing were original, as they were already trademarks of the genre. What ACTUALLY was original from GITS was the depth of its phylosophical concepts (and yes, THAT influenced The Matrix for sure). Not that Blade Runner doesn't have those as well, but GITS added a eastern sensibility to the question of "What makes a human a human?".
Shendue Blade Runner did not predate GiTS by 13 years. Blade Runner came out early 80s, GiTS manga was published late 80s. So like, 5 years. Get your facts straight bud
Shendue and if you are comparing the two movies, it’s 9 years.
My impression of the GITS move was that someone *really* wanted to make a Neuromancer film, but got handed the GITS property and was told to use it.
"Our memories don't define who we are, our actions do."
*Lobotomies would like to have a word with you.*
What do you mean exactly? Do Lobotomies effect memories?
"It's a pretty shell with no ghost." That about sums it up.
Ghost in the Shell does not take place in Tokyo. It is a new city, called ‘Newport City’. In the canon, Japan became a population center, after the two new world wars wiped out much of Asia. As a result, the Japanese mainland expanded, building cities over the water that used to surround it. Newport City is kinda like Detroit: important government and military installations are there, but also ghettos, made up largely of immigrant refugees. Many people believe that the 95 film is set in Hong Kong, because of the look of the buildings and the signage. But really this just signifies that they were in a Chinese district, most of the time. The dialogue itself, during the intro sequence, makes mention of ‘Newport City’. Much of ‘Stand Alone Complex’ deals with how refugees are treated, within the social order of Newport City.
You seem, very much so, to be an intelligent, likable, and decent young man - sincere as well. From my very old perspective (71 yrs), I ask only that you watch the original movie again without preconceptions (very hard, I know, but it seems to me you are someone who could do it). I wish you all the best, and don't let the bastards get you down.
Its a cult movie, not easy to get for the masses.
"its not even worth getting mad about"
Thats exactly how i feel. I actually expected way less from this movie, so i ended up liking it because of the visuals and how they resemble the anime.
I had the misfortune of thinking this movie might even come close to the original but I wasted my money.
If this movie were its own movie, and not an adaptation of Ghost in the Shell, it wouldn't have been that bad.
Kevin Goeltz it still wasnt that bad
how so exactly?
you still have yet to actually explain anyhting?
what i personally see is a film that was loyal to the characters, and tried its hardest to help new fans understand the series
cause honestly your forgetting this was made for americans, and allot of people who werent fans of the movie went to see it
but all in all this is just my opinion
we all have them plain and simple
i perosnally hate dragonball evolution with a burning passion, but i can respect if someone finds something to enjoy about it
and hell there were some things about it even i personally enjoyed, mostly the actor who played roshi
so basically it is accurate to the source material as I, robot was
What? No. I, Robot didn't even try to have a relation to the source material aside from it being about robots. This is a very well done visual adaptation that copies a lot of themes from the original but ends up completely contradicting it for the sake of mass appeal.
Lets not pretend the movies or any of the series were all that close to the manga source either...
How is that sarcasm? Did Jeff say the same thing about I, Robot? Just given the context of this video the comment seems completely genuine.
YumLemmingKebabs doesn't that description apply pretty well to i, robot? taking the themes/ideas and creating the opposite message to make it more popular.
Um... I mean... I, Robot the book was a collection of various short stories about robots loosely connected by the idea that they were all being told by a well respected former roboticist who was being interviewed by a journalist. I, Robot the movie was a story about Will Smith as a technophobic detective living in a future where servile robots are common who hates robots because they don't age discriminate and is investigating an apparent murder of the scientist responsible for creating a new prototype robot by said robot. It then spirals into this weird giant conspiracy about the robots having a central AI that wants to enslave humanity but that one robot from the beginning being rogue from the AI hivemind and being good.
So no. It doesn't take the themes/ideas of the book and create the opposite message. It makes up a bunch of random shit and slaps the name of the book on it. Heck that's all off the top of my head, but looking at the wikipedia article for the movie it turns out that as Phantasmic Games said it was actually a ripoff of a different book by the same author and had the name of the female lead changed to that of the previously mentioned former roboticist from the I, Robot book after they decided to slap the book's title onto the in development film.
The Major's eyes. WIDE ALL THE TIME! It means something!
4:40 how are we supposed to do that if we don't give her roles? Roles set in Asia where it would makes sense to have an Asian lead?
I remember watching this in theater, and thinking, "I honestly enjoyed this. If I saw the original, I'd probably hate it but by itself it's pretty good."
omg voice acting the tachikomas.. while breaking down some good old GITS philosophy.. well done sir well done
I only watched the original 3 days before the release of the remake and I already felt I was being shitted upon.
It's not even a remake of the original, duh.
Zaidel why?
Hollywood: We take your stuff and we make it our stuff
And you'll like it.
Blackman Whitesuit No.
That sounds like Disney.
Robocop with tits is the most accurate description of the live action adaption I have heard.
So the original Batou wasn't white?
His character design in the anime looks pretty damn 'white' to me. Like American ex military or something
Error01 nope Japanese ex military. If I remember correctly they address some of his military career in an episode. Which is against a America soldier turned serial killer
Turtle ofPride doesn't mean he isn't caucasian though. Could be a white Japanese
Yeah I thought live action Batou looked pretty accurate to anime Batou
Description
The Tachikoma segments were one of my favorite parts of Ghost in the Shell.
That was... a weirdly convincing Tachikoma impression.
It's not a remake though, it was meant to be an amalgamation of the existing installments but for a wider audience. I agree with a lot of the things you said though. It was DEFINITELY dumbed down, a lot. They didn't go all the way with the ideas they presented. That, or they tried to explain some of them ideas very quickly instead of letting us think about it instead!
I'm probably in the minority here but I did like the film, even with all the things I didn't like about it. I wondered about Motoko's origin as a kid so I didn't mind that they focused on it for the film.
It would have worked better if they had made ScarJo's "shell" a mass produced body in the film, not one of a kind, as you stated. And if they hadn't used that dreadful scene in the beginning with the scientists. Haha.
Anyway! Loved your video! The voice over parts with the clips from the series gave me a good laugh! 👍🏻
Josh Stephens back to the basement where you came from!
Ghastly Theater I didn’t like his video this guy is a little bitch and jumps on the bang wagon. I have to disagree with a lot what he said and feels he didn’t watch the movie. I agree yes the remake was dumb down a lot but if u know the source material most of it was there they just didn’t explore it as much and didn’t explain much. But it was there and I think the movie was great
actually the city that Ghost in the Shell is set in is modelled after Hong Kong. Neo-Tokyo is a multicultural fusion of a city and choosing ScarJo makes sense because even tho major's braincells (Ghost) are Japanese her body (Shell) is cyborg, just like the city Hong Kong, which was a territory of Qing and then a colony of Britain and then handed over to Communist China in 1997 just two years after the original movie was out.
Everyone in Hollywood: *"Hey, y'all, watch me take a dump on this beloved franchise and it's lore."*
I didn’t even know it was originally an anime before getting into the anime scene. And I imagine most Americans still don’t know.
As an audience, we are at the mercy of studios creating what we deem right, properly, and when it comes out wrong, it really sucks. They really need to change their ways.
Servan Castillo unfortunately it won't happen anytime soon. As long as Hollywood makes money off movies, either smart or popcorn movies, it's gonna stay. They really don't care.
A friend of mine just found the movie boring and then he saw the original property afterwards. I watched the show that spawned from the original Ghost in the Shell movie. I enjoyed the show a lot and the first OP "Inner Universe" is one of my favorite OP songs ever.
This was a surprisingly coherent and insightful rant.
I liked it!
0:45 - What are you talking about? Blade Runner was 1982...
He is talking about Blade Runner 2 that is coming out this year
I don't think he mentioned Blade Runner.
Maybe you get ear augments.
Onodera1980 blade runner is also important - and it was obviously an influence on oshii - but many of the specific stylistic decisions made for GiTS are what inform the direction of the matrix, and those in turn carry forward into just about every cyberpunk film that follows.
Thank you for adding to the definition of cyborg. People don't know the difference between androids, cyborgs, robots etc.
As a GITS fan, It was exactly what I expected it to be.
This film was a shell without a ghost.
It's the result of neither embracing GITS enough nor stirring it in your own direction enough. They dumbed down the material to a Robocop origin story they weren't even creative enough to come up with interesting new stuff even if they strayed away.
It was overall a boring generic sci fi action flick.
Without a shadow of a doubt I believe this is the worst addition and link to the franchise.
I fucking hate Scarlet Johnson, she was a miscast, i hate her voice, I hate her acting, her performance is as generic as you can get, all the characters she plays feel the exact fuckin same.
Jun Jin eh i think you're calling her performance generic purely because you dislike her. i agree with everything else but if you weren't so biased you would see that her performance was actually amazing. she played the role of major much better than anticipated
+Onyaga Not one second in the film I felt her as Motoko, she felt like Lucy and Black Widow and every other shitty character she portrayed. I'm not biased I just hate her for a reason.
1. Major breathes and blinks in the movie
2. Her gender is easily put into the character, something that has been ambiguous in the original material, being the movie, manga, anime, or anything else
3. Why Batou looks like a retarded Billy Idol? He should've be called Potatou
4. Ok the tank scene is ok
5. The art direction is ok
6. Why everyone looks so sentimental?
Because it's the first "Okay" live action anime movie. It has to be better than it is.
I thought Batou was one of the few things they got right...
She has an actual brain, that's all she is. She has to get air to the brain somehow. It's easier to let the actress breathe than not.
She blinks in the original movie. There are clips in this video that show that.
Thank you, Geoff. That Tachikoma bit really made me grin.
Opinion Respected!
But i loved the Live Action movie as much i as loved the Old and New Anime movies
Shade's Insane Chamber same this guy is a little bitch
I wanna hear your opinion on the Fullmetal Alchemist movies, mostly conquerors of shamballa.
The only Ghost in the Shell film that exist is Mamoru Oshii's original master piece.
Nothing else can even remotely hold a candle to it.
>scarlet johansson's brilliant performance
Seriously?
loliH9 He also says that a computer program is smarter than a human. NOPE!!
Bunny Bell
I loved it
Log Fire no he says it can do things humans can't. Which is true.
Yes! I was confused by that one too. Motoko in the movie comes trough an emotionally tense arch of losing her mother figure (the French scientist lady) and finding another (her, well, real mum), as well as aquiring new memories and sense of self. But not only the movie ditches the prospect of emotionally charged sci-fi drama for some cheap thrills, the actress herself (and director as well, since I have no doubts actress as talented as Johanson would be able to stop that emotionless nonsense and start acting) seems unaware how difficult is the situation her character finds herself!
loliH9 yeah she was good. She couldn't have helped a terrible movie any more than she did.
Why reccomend Boss baby when you could recommend Kimi no na wa!
Or just stay home playing video games.
if any one was wondering, the major back story was establish with the Ghost in the Shell: Arise series.
I've always thought the race argument for Mokoto was stupid... considering she has a body that was MADE therefore it has no inherent race...not to mention Mokoto herself has always looked EXTREMELY ambiguous as far as looks are concerned.
Great video, nailed all the points I can think of and more. I remember you mentioning on Twitter the Robocop comparison, nice to see that didn't change in hindsight. Still waiting on that Riverdale "What's in a scene" video on how it ruined the adaptation in one episode, but I imagine the whole series is so schlock for you at this point that's not happening. Maybe What's In A Trailer/OP for P5, spoilers and all?
Although faint, the background music is from Ridge Racer Type 4, if anyone is interested. I heard the following tracks: Silhouette Dance, Quiet Curves, Thru, Pearl Blue Soul
Well to be fair, the remake work as a stand-alone hollywood movie just enough to escape the realm of the utterly shitty adaptations like dragon-ball evolution to something just mediocre, that won't hurt your eyes when you watch it (provided you've never seen the anime movie)
Then again it didn't seem to have worked out well for them, hopefully the fact that the movie has (at least for now) lost a crapton of money change something in future adaptations
Preferably by not doing future adaptations. Simply put Hollywood can't do anime adaptations right. Not even Japan can do anime live action adaptations right. And Hollywood can't even do western animation to live action adaptations right much less another countries.
I've got some Good news. I opted out of watching this movie, and watched the original online.
It was Awesome. I never would have appreciated watching this when I was growing up. So yeah, maybe this movie (much like cat in the hat) helps you respect, and even realize the masterpieces that are out there.
Okay, I was too lazy to click Like until the clever use of the SAC chatroom scene. Bravo.
1:18 Blade Runner 2049 turned out to be a good film though.