Perfectly nailed. I left academia for many of those reasons years ago, after my postdoc. What is unbelievable to me is how academia managed to secure an endless amount of highly specialized workforce to carry out research (phd and postdocs) for ridiculously low wages with minimal or absent work rights & security. And nobody blinks. Good job, academic friends. RIP.
The problem is that that's exactly what big economic powers wanted: academia to be strongly diminished. Not by direct repression, but by "choice" of the very same academics who build it. The most capable ones leave because they see the huge issues it has, while the ones who are more interested in money, fame and prestige stay, heavily jeopardizing research quality alongside the utterly stupid parameters - like number of publications - used to "assess" the quality of its production. Knowledge has been the most important change factor for society - it shouldn't be... but that's how it has been through history -. Those who are favored by the statu quo, obviously, don't want things to change. Hence, they're destroying the academia that has proven to be the best method known to build knowledge, just by forcing a market logic for its function - which is directly opposed with a proper academic labour -. Yeah, at an individual level it is of course quite beneficial to leave academia. But on the big picture, that will doom us all. And I can't blame you, nor any other who left. It would still be extremely difficult to stop the momentum of this degeneration even staying within academia. There is no simple solution... or at least I can't see it. I bet no one can.
@@fizban974 In general, any natural ol legal person with extreme economic hoarding. Those constitute around 0.001% of the population, but concentrate most (more than half) of the financial resources in the world - hence, almost all of the political power that exists -.
I just finished my PhD. I was able to save my mental health, but it resulted in me taking 7 years to finish. I have the luck that I had a partner that could financially support me. The most toxic part for me was the power imbalance between supervisor and me. I didn't get in fights with me supervisor, but that is also because I didn't feel the freedom to do so. Your supervisor has to green light your graduation, and thus has a strangle hold over you. The inability to demand better treatment without the possibility of your hard word being for nothing was the most damaging for me and my self confidence. I long thought I was going to be a professor at some point. Now I'm fleeing academia and will probably never look back.
Congratulations on finishing your PhD! Good that you had a support system, such a thing is definitely a huge factor in making the whole academic experience more bearable. I agree the inability to demand better is one of the most insidious things about the system. Good on you for escaping! I have also successfully found a job in a non-academic field at this point, and I’m very happy about it.
I’m in the geosciences (hydrology) and a PhD student last year committed suicide in the department building. I’m only a masters student but it was enough to curb my desire for any further education. I just want to get out and work for the government now.
That's just so awful! Poor soul. Sadly, I also know of institutions where this has happened... there was even one at my old workplace, though it did not involve a PhD student. The toll this system can have on people's mental health (and lives) is really horrific. I wish you all the best and hope you can get out successfully!
A really Nice summary! I hope prospective phd students get to see this!! I had my final day as postdoc/researcher today and you are correct in that if you thought the phd was stressful and busy you have no idea what is waiting for you as you progress beyond. I was set to leave research after my phd but ended up in a postdoc after some years as technician. Please everyone if you are on the fence and unsure about continuing as a researcher - trust your gut feeling!
I did my PhD in physical inorganic chemistry and I really enjoyed it. I had a cool advisor, worked long hours and enjoyed the research. Now I teach high school and still adjunct at night. It was a great time in my life.
Glad to hear you had a good time! It's definitely important to remember that there are people like you who do have positive experiences in academia. I wonder if I would have enjoyed it more if I were in a different work environment, but I know that regardless of how nice my workplace is, unlike many other academics, I have a very low tolerance for working long hours...
Cathy, in December of 1991 I completed my Ph.D. in clinical psychology from U.S.C. - and I can attest, from personal experience, direct observation, and interaction with other graduate students over five years of graduate school, that most of the dynamics you describe are so common and stable - across departments and fields, across universities, and across decades - as to be almost universal. As an undergraduate student at Columbia University before that, I can recognize these same truths that you describe in the lived experiences of the graduate students I knew. This all has me thinking back to Paige Smith’s book, “Killing the Spirit,” which I came across in 1990, and how accurate his observations and reflections on high levels of dysfunction and rigidity within academia seemed to me at the time. The university can be a haven for highly gifted individuals with neurodiversity - perhaps, even, as Tony Attwood once said, “a sheltered workshop for the socially impaired,” but it is also a setting run and ruled by performative, malignant narcissists - and herein lies a good part of the problem.
Well put! Based on the feedback I‘ve been receiving there really does seem to be a general consensus that academia has always been like that. And I agree, there are certain people that thrive in this environment more than others, and one of these types appear to be the ruthless narcissists. I’m glad to be out of there and hopefully I‘ll never find myself in such a place so devoid of empathy again. Might check out the book you mentioned, it sounds interesting!
I did a BSc and MSc in theoretical physics with dyspraxia and I can confirm that universities _resent_ neurodivergent students. The only reason they make some adjustments in the UK is because they are forced to by the 2010 Equality Act, so if you kick and scream enough, they will implement the absolute minimum that they are legally obliged to after wasting a term of your degree on emails. Their strategy is to tire you out. If you are doing an extremely intense degree at a prestigious university, they know there is only so much of your non-existent free time that you can waste demanding your basic rights
I'm in my 4th year of my Plant Bio PhD in the US. I have a good advisor but I have to say all the stuff you talked about in the first half of the video was so validating. I feel that so much. All the uncertainty etc. Thank you for sharing
I'm only an undergrad but as a Canadian, I'm really disappointed that the work conditions aren't much better in Europe. Maybe that was naïve on my end but I was under the impression that better worker's protections laws would extend to the academic environment in many cases, but there's no stopping "publish or perish" unfortunately. I strongly sympathize and I'm sorry you had such a painful experience. I've recently decided to switch majors to computer science despite being more than halfway done and loving my current major. I only have my mom and we're not rich (or even middle-class), passion won't take care of financial anxiety, a steady paycheck and acceptable work conditions will. I hope life is easier on you now and thank you very much for sharing your experience, I'm sure it can be useful to many people. Your drawing was really pretty :)
Thank you! Glad you liked the video and the drawing. Regarding work conditions in academia in Europe, if you are lucky enough to obtain a permanent contract or work as a technician, you can have a pretty good work-life balance and benefit from worker's protections, though the salaries are not that great. In the French system, once you obtain that permanent contract, you're pretty much set until you retire, and it's almost impossible to get fired (though these kinds of positions are almost impossible to land these days). But yes, if you're a PhD or a post-doc, you will likely experience the extreme pressure that seems to be a staple of the academic system, regardless of the "reasonable" hours listed on your work contract. Good luck with your switch to computer science! In my opinion, financial stability and good career opportunities can actually lead to a more relaxing/fulfilling life than overworking yourself in a competitive or badly paying field for the sake of passion. Hopefully, if you have a good work-life balance, you can follow your passions as a hobby. I was unemployed for quite a while but I have now switched from biology into the medical field for similar reasons, and am doing much better these days.
@@CatharticOutlet Thank you very much for the information and encouragement! I very much agree about finding fulfillment elsewhere than a punishing work environment :)
And as an undergrad in México, we all thought academia was only unstable and poorly compensated here, having Canadá and Europe as places to possibly make it And thats apparently not true and academia is way more broken than i thought
@@sophiaruizuvalle2523 I'd say in Canada if you *can* make it to a tenure track position (and acquire tenure) then it's great. At many research universities professors make six figures. The problem is getting a position. A single opening will easily have 200-300 applicants (almost all of them, if not all of them, highly qualified). The competition is insane, it's not something you can count on when doing a PhD unfortunately.
I appreciate you saying that those sweet "recommendation" videos, like how to choose the lab and similar ones are a little bit annoying! Exactly my thoughts before. Now I am stuck in my 5th year of PhD, trying to finish. When I started, it was difficult for me to find a position as a foreigner from the 3rd world country, so I happily jumped onto the first project that was interesting and was offered to me without further thoughts. I was so insecure in that I will find another professor who would trust in me, I appreciated this a lot, but this job is insane in the workload,almost unlivable salary and pressure 🥴
Finally someone agrees with me on this! Yes, this insecurity is very common and can keep people trapped in bad workplaces. Good luck with finishing up your PhD, hopefully you will be free soon!
I also took a 2 month ill leave from my PhD due to depression. I had just returned from a ''sandwich'' period (this is what they call it here in Brazil when you get a grant to spend some time of your PhD in a foreign institution, which happened to be in Paris lol at IAP) and was extremely overworked since I basically had 5 months to publish a paper from start to finish (this might not seem a lot for some areas but for theoretical physics it basically means working twice the normal pace). I was so focused on not breaking down while I was in Paris (the idea of having a depressive episode and needing medical care outside of my home country and away from friends and family terrified me) I think it made me access some sort of super focused work mode in my brain lol but when I returned to my home country I was so tired I couldn't take another day of PhD work. This happened five years ago and I still struggle with depression to this day, which was not a serious problem for me before my PhD. I'm in a slightly better place now, especially financially, but still no stability (basically on my second two year contract as an assistant professor with so many teaching hours I can barely do research), career or mentalwise lol.
Very sorry to hear you went through all that... I guess regardless of the discipline the issues in academia are the same… Glad that you are in a better place, I hope you are able to recover further and find more stability in your life! I am also still dealing with the aftermath of my PhD struggles more than a year later, though in my case the issues are related more to my physical health. Anyway, all the best to you and hang in there!
In a weird spot because I'm in a non-academic job within an academic institution. I originally thought about switching into an academic track, but my coworkers don't seem happy so reconsidering.
Yeah, if the people at your workplace don't seem to be doing well, that's not a good sign. Although I sound like a negative Nelly in this video, not all academic jobs are bad and there are some people that have very positive experiences... but I believe the work culture and environment need to be right for that to be the case. If you are really passionate about research/academia I would go for it, but only if a suitable opportunity arises.
@@CatharticOutlet Yeah it’s a struggle to find something interesting enough to justify the stress and effort. We’ll see if I find something eventually.
Honestly, it’s really the problem with publish or perish model. Researchers are no longer judged by how novel the research is, but how many papers they managed to get off in a certain period of time.
Originally I wanted to do a PhD in Mathematics. I thought it was normal and I want to keep on learning. Sadly, my advisor for my master thesis told me I won't do that. Apparently you need to be a genius for that. Since then I lost interest, both because I realised during my thesis that I'm not good enough and because the subject (algebraic geometry) wasn't fun anymore. I think in Germany a PhD is a pretty safe bet because the pay is better and you don't count as overqualified. Even then, it just didn't work out and now (today) I got a job offer from an IT company.
@@artey6671 maybe i formulated poorly. I started studying algebraic geometry during my masters, and i umderstood many things deeply at the second year of phd
@@mohamedaminekoubaa5231 Yeah, I wasn't sure which of those two you meant. Well, I did algebraic geometry for about three years in total and I'm not sure I really got it. My advisor told me it's the most technical subject in Maths, along with arithmetic geometry, I think.
@@artey6671 yes. I work (still didnt publish anything but started writing) in arithmetic geometry. It s just too much because the basic theory didnt settle yet.
Great video (and drawings). I am a second year PhD Candidate in Educational Leadership. I am enjoying my program and would rate my “happiness scale” at a 9-10. Important caveats: I am retired military, I am not employed, my GI Bill pays for my PhD, I attend school online, I have no existing mental/physical issues, I enjoy study/research, and I have a wonderful home life.
Thanks! Glad you like the video! Very happy to hear you are currently enjoying your PhD program, that's the way it should be! It's a pity that such experiences aren't more common. Having a good support network is definitely very valuable! Hope things will continue as they are for you (I don't think I've ever said that to another PhD candidate before)!
PhD student in Astrophysics Mental health started at an 8, but gradually dwindled to a 2 during my first 2 years. Finally sought out mental health support, and 6 months later I'm a 5. This help includes medication and taking 3 months off (paid, thankfully). My mental health is stable, but I'm certainly not happy, just counting down the weeks and months until it's over. Now I'm stable and sufficiently 'ok' to push through to the finish and hopefully reap some benefit from having a PhD through the rest of my working life. My supervisor is thankfully quite understanding and not too pushy, but I can't help but recognise that I've not met his expectations for a PhD student. The constant stress is all-consuming. I really try not to work evenings or weekends unless I've had a bad day/week and procrastinated instead of actually working. Still, the notion that I could be working instead of living my life is always in the back of my mind, and I never truly feel at ease.
PHD is not for everyone. Only those who is dedicated to do research or are obsessed with there subjects should go for PhDs. I left phd just after 3 months. Yes one of my friend has brought his mattress to lab and he literally sleeps eats poops and studies in the lab.
First of all: THANK YOU. I know I'm late to the party, but I wish I had found this video when you published it, as I was starting my PhD (in biomed related stuff). I just felt so validated and the feelings you described, the treatment of international students and the ridiculous demands of supervisors (who would otherwise be pretty friendly people) resonated so much with my experience that...I could have written the script for this video :') It has taken some time (and therapy) for me to come to terms with the Ponzi scheme that is academia. It's been sad, and frustrating, because as a first generation researcher, I came to this field with all the passion and motivation inspired by this pure idea of Research as something so beautiful and at the service of the community...and then it was all crushed by the reality of "publish or perish" and the likes. I particulary resent academia for this seemingly predatory behaviour it has on first-gen students and people coming from certain underprivileged conditions. If you don't have any academic in the family, you have no idea how toxic and out of reality certain academic places can be. And you are lured by the prospect of "being paid to study" and the prestige and the service you're doing to the community. And then you realize you are only human, can only do so much, but your supervisor and the whole system don't seem to care for you or your well-being. Only thing that matters are experiments and manuscripts. Well, if any overworked PhD or postdoc (or any academic) is reading this line: YOU MATTER. YOUR WELL-BEING MATTERS. No service to human knowledge is so important that you have to sacrifice your life and your precious time on this planet to be miserable for it. Believe me, you can be as (if not more) impactful to your community, family, friends, without losing your sanity and health. Please take care.
@@Nimweh while I can’t say I’m glad the video resonated with you, I appreciate your thoughtful comment and I hope you were able to recover from your experience in academia! This is exactly why I made this video- I wanted to share my perspective because, despite what my environment sometimes made me believe - I knew I can’t be the only one who feels this way about the system.
My experience in the US, also in the biological sciences, is similar. It’s sad that this kind of experience is widespread and the norm, as opposed to the exception. I would say that I’ve consistently been at a 1-3 on the miserableness scale during the latter portion of my PhD. I’m hoping to defend soon though 🤞 I’m glad that you were able to leave academia! Thanks for sharing your story!
Thanks for your comment! Yes, it is very unfortunate how universal this experience is... academia really is a messed up system! Sorry to hear your PhD is one of the more miserable ones (welcome to the club!), but good that you are defending soon! Wishing you all the best and hopefully things will be much better for you afterwards!
All the best with your defense Kaitlyn. Wishing you a much better experience post your PhD. As a recent molecular biology PhD graduate, I completely related to your experience. I honestly didn't know panic attacks until my PhD. I cried almost all the time, was also miserable - but grateful for friends that understood and always made an effort to support me and also cheer me up. I officially left academia after submitting last year August and started a new job in industry/corporate. I am very happy there and I hope that you also find something that will make you happy in future 🫂🤗
I work a job where at least half of my coworkers have a masters or phd. The majority of my friends have a masters or starting a masters program. I originally thought I should continue my degree but after consideration those who do have elevated degrees are doing no better than I. So I am content with my bachelors.
Interesting! I guess whether a masters is worth it can really depend on the field of study, the industry and also one's personal goals. In biology, a bachelor lets you be a technician (doing physical lab work) but it's usually not sufficient for a higher level position in research and development, where a masters is usually a minimum requirement (unlike the PhD, I didn't regret doing a maters).
Speaking of work time, a recent EU law mandates electronic tracking of working hours. Shortly after this we had a meeting with the president of the research organization I work at. Of course the question about how this will be addressed was asked and the answer was shocking to me. We have been told outright that the tracking hours would lead to being "less competitive" in the academic sphere and that "science compatible solutions" will need to be found before the tracking can happen.
Ah yes, that law “hit” our non-academic workplace recently resulting in some interesting feedback (mainly people complaining about the extra effort required for tracking and worrying that higher ups can now see how often they work less than 40 hours a week lol). After finding out about it I wondered how/if it will be implemented in academic institutions… and your organization’s response doesn’t surprise me in the slightest! It really remains to be seen if it will improve anything or if institutions will just find a way to work around it…
I got my PhD 3 years ago and I cannot overstate how painfully accurate this video is. Thank you so so much for bringing to light these issues, the word really needs to get out about the truth of academia. I myself have personally been bullied at the workplace just like you mentioned, this has everything to do with the toxic environment around me and states nothing about my personality (I have a very low tolerance for working long hours...) Typically I cry myself to sleep every night with my sketchbook beside me, drawing 8 hours a day and posting my garbage to tumblr because I am literally unable to contribute anything more interesting in people's lives. Thankfully I have a youtube channel where I ramble about my thoughts incoherently. And everyone loves the videos I post! It's really nice to read the end of positive and supportive comments because I am not a flawed human being, I'm perfect the way I am no matter what they say!!!
Thank you for making this video! unfortunately I'm in a similar situation and I feel a little less crazy, for a lack of better word, to hear someone who went through something similar.
Happy to hear the video resonated with you, but sorry that you are currently going through this! Best of luck! I remember feeling crazy and like I was the only person struggling with everything during the first year of my PhD. Now I look back and see that I was just in a really bad environment which made things much harder than they had to be...
The feeling is the same here in Brazil, sadly (but unsurprisingly). I only recently finished my bachelor's in Computer Science and even my professor was struggling with giving me orientation for my paper. To add up to it he was working a commercial job, lecturing 5 times a week and his second child was on the way while his first child was only 2! Needless to say my final wasn't great but I am really proud of the project and the results I got. Graduated successfully and am preparing to enroll in a data science course so I can change career tracks within my current company. Wish me luck I guess lol
Yes, it seems to be a truly global phenomenon... I definitely do not envy anyone working in the higher levels of academia - it just seems like a very tough and stressful life with very little reward, especially if you want to have a family and life outside of work... It feels like the current system is set up to exploit people's passion for science. Congrats on your graduation, and good luck with your data science course!
It is also a numbers game. The PhD candidates outnumber the stable faculty positions. So a lot of PhD students and Postdocs spend years training for a job that they can never have. A lack of results can be stressful for the student and the supervisor.
I’m in my fourth year of my Ph.D. in engineering sciences and I still have so many things to do, I feel overwhelmed and worried that I’m not gonna finish in time along the scholarship deadlines. I’m worried that I’m not suited for academia, I feel like what I do is not as interesting as my peers and I feel particularly alone in my research topic. There was a moment when I thought teaching and researching was something I’d love to live doing and sometimes I still do, but now I’m not sure if the academic environment is the one for me. Watching this video and reading other people’s experiences does help, it makes me think that if I choose to not follow academia right now is not the end of the world. Maybe one day I’ll find my way back to it but for now I just want to finish my Ph.D. and rest for a while before job hunting something more manageable.
Hi there! Thanks for your comment. What you are describing is pretty much how I felt when I was in the middle of my PhD. I also had the constant feeling of not being able to make it, and in my case no one else was really interested in my research topic or working in a similar area either. During my masters and the start of my PhD, I also had the feeling academia was where I wanted to stay - but that desire was killed off so throughly during the PhD that by the end I knew I’d rather be unemployed than to do a post-doc. After a recovery period and subsequent job hunt, I ended up finding a chill non-academic job that I’m quite happy with! I wish you all the best and hope you get through your PhD successfully and that you find something that works better for you afterwards!
Hi Cathy...!!! I speak from a similar background, but back in the 80s...so it is sad to know it hasn't changed much...BUT NEEDS TOO !~~~~! Thanks for sharing and here are my own perspectives on your observations... WORK CULTURE I have no issues with "living the work"...and "loving the work"...!!!...I have spent a lifetime with that type of passion and dedication to a craft and/or science...However, this needs to be instilled in people (or students) as a POSITIVE passion and not some massively dysfunctional normative culture often brow-beaten into those wanting to gain a foothold into the academia of any discipline. Pick the field from medicine to life sciences to architecture (I've been in all of those and some professional level...!!!) and you will find massive egos that are actually massively insecure most often or obsessively narcissistic in nature and actually very dysfunctional human beings...AND WHY...!!!...I never finished any of my degrees but rather choose to go out in the world and "see it" and often work as "self-employed" rather than some "hot mess" of a workplace...or for "not for profits." LONG TERM STRESS In actual reality...this is not real...but artificial and created by the very broken normative culture of academia at large. Again, rooted in the too often narcissistic and even maniacal personalities (look up this term as tell me it doesn't fit at least 60% of the Professors you have ever met...LMAO...to some degree or another) that stay in these fields surrounding themselves with either sycophant to stroke their egos...or...some other obsessive-compulsive disorder...that gives them the social acuity of an Aardvark...which frankly are better socialized than most humans... Stress in general in most modern humans is an addiction that they are born into and self-creates in many aspects of their life. Attachments, motivations, and fixations, regardless of parameters and reasons, are 90% self-created and not real. Take away obsessive attachment and normative culture's focus on "what is important" and stress melts away... OPTION LESSNESS Reread the first sentence of the above observation. Again, often rooted in the too-often narcissistic and maniacal...normative cultures...of most academic centers...THERE IS, always an option but most humans will not choose these. One is, of course leaving, with all the pitfalls that you listed in your video...the other is confrontation, but sadly most "young humans" are not equipped for battling the status quo. For those few of us that are, you can "make change" happen around you but in time you realize that what that "degree" might actually be getting you (besides massive debt and health issues) is simply of no great value in the greater scheme of life... I personally have a half dozen chances to return to academia and the older I got the more open and inviting my friends and colleagues in academia became...but by then...there was simply no great reason to return as I was pleased and happy with the professions I worked in with virtually all of them "mandating" I have a higher degree...of which I did not have...LOL...but still was doing the work... My actual salvation "from academia" was a Geology professor that came back to academia after 20-plus years of successful work in his field. He got me my first interview (Park Naturalist) that, of course, required a minimum of a Bachelor's degree and preferably a Master's degree. He wanted me to see and experience what was common "after" the degree was gotten...or so I thought...LOL! At the end of a three-month process, while still in school I got called in for a final interview with a state board going up against a young woman (very stressed out!!!) who (of course) had her Master's degree. Part of the interview was with both of us in the same room sitting at a table answering all kinds of questions ranging from Herpetology to how to set up an enclosure in a nature center and developing a syllabus for local school curriculums...Oddly enough...???...I got the position and thus left college which I found out later was my Geology professor's intent all along...LOL...as he could see it was a simple waste of time fumbling through all the POLITICS...!!!...that is the academic world...May the Creator bless him for eternity...!!! ANTIQUATED HIERARCHICAL NATURE OF RESEARCH AND THE POWER IMBALANCE WITHIN AKA...The massive and very broken..."political structure"...of academia around the globe... This is the number one reason I have never returned to academia on a full-time or "bought-in" basis...as the power structure is massively narcissistic and inbred with one sycophant pushing the other out of the way for a favor so they can get in line for tenure or some other "tidbit" of notoriety...unless you have a massive brain and some "outside" popularity where the college or institution "grooms you" to return and share your wealth both in popularity within a given field or some other thing you process that they want to covet... No one...and I mean virtually no one...ever addresses or confronts the overpopulation of "Academic Bullies" that are out there. I won't write about the details of what I did publically...but suffice it to say, mine went away the first year of college due to a self-created ..." in person and up close"... intervention that I conducted at the very "human level" of confronting them for their bad behavior...enough sad...They stopped and actually left academia for a while...LOL!!! Then again, I'm a male of the species, 1.87 meters tall and weighing 90kg, and naturally rather "confrontational" when I feel threatened...LOL!!!...This is not a good thing or justification, nor does 90% of students in academia have that personality trait, but "bullies" of any type...WILL NOT...ever stop unless somebody steps up and confronts their poor behavior in whatever means necessary to communicate with them to get the point across that it needs to stop...!!! Done with my rant...and thanks again for posting your experience...This is a form of confrontation and the culture "can change" if enough folks in academia just say..." enough is enough"...!!! Blessings, j
Hi there, Thank you for such detailed response! On one hand, it's nice that this video resonated with you to such an extent, but on the other hand, it is quite sad (but not surprising) that things have not really changed at all in academia since then. I agree, the extreme work culture in academia doesn't develop naturally through passion, but is instead normalized and enforced upon people in the system. And yes, the system is set up in a way that often only the most ruthless, uncaring and selfish individuals survive long enough to make it to the top. And it's true that the optionlessness is often a psychological, "self-inflicted" thing. It definitely was in my case, like, I knew it would be good to quit but I just couldn't give up! Unfortunately, the higher you get in academia the more the system selects for people with this kind of mentality. I know others who had very negative PhD experiences similar to mine, but then decided to continue with a postdoc, which ended up being just as toxic - they are so miserable and yet they still don't want to leave! Glad you were able to make it out of academia so successfully - I'm still trying to find my place in the non-academic world (turns out plant scientists are not in high demand out here, so I'm pivoting into the biomedical sector) And yes, it sucks how the academic bullies keep getting away with their behaviour while it is usually their victims who leave. The problem is that it's often hard to fight back if you are dependent on your former employer/work place to find a good job/position somewhere else (unless you leave the sector entirely). In the case of a very toxic supervisor at my workplace, me and some other PhDs tried reporting the issues to the university, local unions and larger national organizations... there were even multiple mediation sessions involving the affected student and toxic supervisor, but those didn't lead to anything. People either didn't care or couldn't do much. I agree, the more people speak up about their issues with academic culture and their experiences, the more others will become aware of these problems and stop seeing them as "normal". I think there is a slow but gradual shift occuring - I know that in many natural science fields there is now a post doc shortage as more and more people realize that this kind of lifestyle is not worth it. So maybe change will come one day!
Perfect video. I was kicked out from postdoc by not prolonging my contract. Information came one week after my Mom funeral. I was told to organize myself and stop crying. I did not know how to start even.... i got my corporate job and recovering. Academia triggered my bipolar disorder and i regret getting PhD. It is not worth it. Academia is a Ponzi scheme. Everything bad about corporate is 10 times worse in there
@@Erintii so sorry to hear about what happened to you! Really unacceptable on the part of your institution… Glad you were able to get out and are now recovering. I am also in a corporate job since a year and I‘m doing much better. Wishing you all the best
@@CatharticOutlet Thank you I am getting better. This was my turning point a good one I must say. I hope you are fine. Academia's system is toxic and rotten to a core. The constant competition, publish or perish and lack of job stability are making ppl miserable. Competition on its own is not bad, simply it is all about a dosage.
Getting a PhD is like a dream of mine, but everything I see everywhere convinces me not to :( I am still in my first year of bachelor's, so there's plenty of time to prepare and stuff but I can't decide whether I wanna do it after all.
Well, why is it your dream? That matters more. A lot of people say they want to get a PhD and when you ask them why, they don’t seem to have a very deep answer
I 100% relate with you. After getting my PhD and going abroad for postdoc, I finally got a permanent position in France. And you know what, it's even worse after... 3 years in and I'm already following a therapy for depression, experiencing panic attacks everytime I go to work. Why? Because I am bullied by older researcher, it's an endless cycle
As an oldtimer who finished a Ph.D. in 1970 at age 24 and had a permanent professorial job ever since, my experience was entirely different. I loved mathematics from childhood and whatever time I spent doing it was a pleasure rather than "work". It was usually in my head even when I indulged in "leisure" activities such as hiking or canoeing and there were plenty of those. My supervisor was pleasant, did not help me in any way, but did not obstruct me either. So what was different then? The main reason was that good jobs were abundant until about 1975, when the doors closed for about 20 years, resulting in a "lost generation" of would be academics. Formerly "nice" people became no longer so very nice. Even after jobs started to open up in the 1990s, vicious competition has prevailed, because too many people decided to get a Ph.D and assumed they would get a good job, but there are simply not enough of those to go around. The other reason is that no labs were involved.
PhD in virology here, i would class me as a 10, My lab has been very supporting and healthy, however i also have the fact that my personal life has been a 0, so my phD is my happy place far away from my other problems, i was a victim of domestic and economic violence by my ex-fiance, to the point that i ended up with broken ribs, My lab collegues helped me to escape him. i'm mexican and he is french, i'm doing My PhD in France so he had the uperhand if i wanted to go to justice....but i have my work so everything is ok.
I‘m so sorry you had to go through all that and I am glad you were able to get away and that your PhD was a form of escape for you. Glad you had such supportive colleagues! Just goes to show how varied such experiences can be
totally agree. I believe in some fields academia is even more competitive and with more specialized topics. In what I am doing, I normally had only 1 or 2 options all over the world where I could apply for postdoc
I work in the private sector in a multi disciplinary technical engineering and science field and I feel great. 10/10 I am actually reviewing PhD applications and how little researchers are paid makes me confused why anyone wants to do a PhD.
I never went to college and would rate myself a 3 on the happiness scale. I'm not satisfied with my life, but I don't believe that going to college would have necessarily made me any happier. The irony, though, is that I do feel my inaction has contributed to my unhappiness. Reading your comments made me reflect on what happiness really means-to live, laugh, and love. It’s about having meaningful connections with friends and mentors that uplift you. Those positive relationships seem far more important for earning respect and finding fulfillment than anything 'academia' alone can offer.
First-year Optics PhD here. I really love what I’m working on, but the stress of first-year classes and the preliminary exam on top of trying to keep up with research has me at 3 rn
I only did a BSc and MSc in theoretical physics at Imperial and Oxford who, as you say, should have more resources to support students and I’ve already had enough. I’ve already developed several health problems during my MSc from working non-stop with only 2 days off over 9 months and I cannot imagine it getting worse or even staying the same
my utube recomm are rigged this video with the animations were sooo well done,should have gotten it earlier,even i am thinkinh og getting a phd,this helped thanks a lot
Marie curie fellow here, final stages of phd in biochem / mol bio / enzymes in belgium, targeting R&D in private sector next. Very well explained, definitely can relate to many points and confirm pretty much everything. I've seen and heard several cringe shitty occurrences, from psychology to archeology, not only life sciences. personally I enjoyed my phd only by periods, a lot a lot of frustration and inefficiencies, but I was lucky enough to be in a univ that is quite friendly and understanding, my supervisor was even too much loose if anything. And in belgium you have a decent salary (maybe 2200€) even at the phd level, which is uncommon. At least until you are within the nominal duration of the program, if you are one of the fast kids (unlike me). But yeah, lots of loneliness and necessity to solve stuff on your own, somehow. Lots of maintaining appearances over substance. Plus constant instability and being, now much older, at the "same" starting point. Today I'm happy about the ton of things and skills I've learned, but at an untold price. I will always wonder what if I did something else, I will never be sure this was the right choice.
@@cicinindivin3689 hi there fellow Marie Curie Fellow ;) I feel similarly to you looking back at my PhD experience. Though my current view 2 years post-PhD is that I am still not sure of I regret doing a PhD in general but I 100% regret doing it at the institution that I did… Anyway, good luck finishing up your project!
@@rjyoungling220 Net. No, fellowships are subject to low taxes as it isn't a "real salary", you are studying and it's encouraged. Belgian fellowships pay 0% taxes (my friends), maybe something for social security but definitely not 20%. International fellowships, like Marie Curie - mine, do pay some taxes but I'm not sure how much. I believe my gross was in the mid 3000 but I'm absolutely not sure. It also changed a couple times for me. The 50% you mention is not achieved unless you earn a lot, and even then only on the amount that gets over a certain threshold, not on the total. It's in tranches. You never pay 50%. Also, we got even some bonuses so it was like 12.5 salaries per year. Belgium is great for phds. But yeah on the other hand you're not accumulating pension money if you don't pay taxes (ie you are paid with a Be fellowship)
PhD is tough. I finished my PhD within 3 years and university was asking to have 3 manuscripts for graduation and courses. In cellular and molecular biology, having three manuscripts within three years is almost impossible. I had some animal experiments that took around 6 months to get results. University was expecting PhD students to achieve impossible to be able get PhD. Most of the students take 5-8 years to finish their PhD. As a international student, I had to finish timely and worked around 80-90 hours/week with handling multiple projects at the same time. I did not take a one single day vacation for the last three years. I am now post-doc, I have decided to not push myself so much. I work around 45 hours/week now. I am thinking to shift my career to industry after my paper published. However, I am happy that I did a PhD in my field. Do not do PhD if you are not ready to sacrifice your life until university and your supervisor thinks that you deserve to get your PhD.
A while ago I thought that’s a little bit unfortunate that I probably will not be able to do a phd etc. But after watching your video and a French documentary about a archeology phd student in France I feel different about it because most of the time it’s probably not worth it
Eggcelent video,thank you for sharing your opinion and experience, at the same time I hope you are recovering from that and become even stronger💪🏻! I also had terrible PhD experience in Denmark, as a foreign female student coming to a highly toxic lab (cancer research). My supervisor is a sexual predator on his young students and employees, while his wife works in the same lab.He is well known in the field and has a permanent position in the Institute,where no prevention and protection net existed back then.Since I was a foreign student from middle Europe nobody cared.Sexual harassment,bullying and sexism,burn out was my everyday bread.Finally,I managed to defend the thesis,but was completely broken down and left academia immediately.I switched to data engineering and are much happier now at home country.Working with computer codes is more predictable and logical than with my former "colleagues". The predator still works in the Institute,even after I complained a lot.New PhD students are coming...I wished someone warned me before I came there,but everybody was silent and ignorant,including senior female researchers and group leaders. Academia is broken
That's terrible. If they do not take action against sexual harassment that's the most regressive place to exist. Imagine calling themselves first world countries. I'm glad you were able to finally get out of it. Good luck.
Here is the advice I give new PhD student or thinking to do PhD: PhD is the best fit for people who love to discover new knowledge and enjoy working long hours despite a high chance of failing in any specific experiments. If this is not you then PhD is not for you.
The subtle art of academic publishing is of vital importance to the scientist. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin (perish!). Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can, on no account be neglected. Thus it is that in academia chase, the victorious scientist only seeks publication after the paper has been written, whereas scientist who is destined to be defeated first do actual scientific work and afterwards looks for publication. One may know how to publish first without being able to do scientific work first. The whole secrets in academic publishing is in confusing the enemy, so that he cannot fathom our real intent. Never publish first, never win! Thus the expert in publishing research papers moves the enemy, and is not moved by him.
There are those saying that there PhD was awesome, exciting, people were supportive and they finished it with celebration and sense of accomplishment. Their world, seemingly built from gummy bears, filled with rainbows and warmth is a path which they can take barefoot, because every surface has floor heating and there is always ice cream at hand. Cute puppies accompany people everywhere. And there are those, that sit at the dark corner, cigarette lit, tarnished, misbegotten, truly downtrodden by the entire PhD experience that was a crucible of anguish, pain and questionable sacrifice. Disillusioned down to their pain-engulfed core. Their commitment an edifice to initial ignorance is part shame-inducing, part-burden that is hard to get rid of.
The French understand and can communicate in English. But they choose not to - refuse to, and promote French. The reason for the job spec in English is that it’s the global language of business and the only language to be taken seriously for any academic paper .
Yes, we can blame globalization for this, as well as for many other issues we have. Imagine how other languages are treated when even French gets discarded as "not serious". Unbelievable, but we've done this to ourselves.
As a latinamerican When you said, "there's no future or stability in academia at least here in EUROPE" that completly blew my mind For us the academic dream is impossible in latinamerica and we always joke about escaping it, probably to europe or us/Canada, but you're saying that Europe isnt stable either, and american phD students have been complaining for years So its probably not feaseable anywhere Im glad im seeing this just after getting rejected from my masters program and getting an office job in the mean while Maybe its Best i dont return to that world
Maybe it is primarily so difficult because there are so few positions available? I think the administration only cares about getting the qualified people for the positions that are open and outside of that they don’t care. The administrators are the ones in charge of that level of decisions. But then maybe the full professors are just looking to make their jobs easier and that’s where the problem is. I think if somehow you could get the administrators to see how the full professors are portraying grad school they might care enough to have them be more truthful because it doesn’t advance their cause and gives the university a lower opinion in those that have experienced it and they talk.
I’m currently an undergrad rising junior, and would probably put myself at a 9 on the miserableness scale (quite happy) things could be better, but I’m doing my best in generally good conditions, and I enjoy life
I agree with most of what you said - except the language. You were the problem in that case, as most researchers speak or know at least another language besides their mother tongue.
English clearly isn't her native language though, so it's not like she just couldn't be bothered to learn another language but that she thought she fit the requirements. If you're an international student applying and it says you only have to speak English, then it is a bit of a kick when that isn't the case.
I don’t know how I feel about this. On the one hand, I empathize. On the other hand, just like the NBA or any other elite group, no one is entitled to be in it. Yes there’s more supply than demand but academia (like the NBA) is looking for the best people. Things like “banning overtime” sends shivers down my spine. Maybe there should be two systems. One more feminine one with a focus on work/life balance and more recreation. And another for folks who wanna be the absolute best academics they can be. Imagine telling someone like Michael Jordan he’s not allowed to train so hard because a bunch of subpar basketball players can’t keep up. That makes zero sense. And when I hear things like “micro aggressions” those are terms that hold no basis in reality. They’re words that proponents of a certain ideology (usually far-left) believe are true and wish to force on everyone else. That seems more like bullying to me. Mixed feelings about this vid. I think there’s lots of room for improvement on the side of academia (esp OP traveling and then entering a lab where almost no one spoke french). But on the other hand, I do feel that being in academia, researching FOR A LIVING, and on the dime of the taxpayer (who not only has no say in this but who also has to FREAKING PAY for the research they helped fund) is a huge ‘privilege’ (to use the lexicon of the far left). No one is entitled to that. I think a better critique of academia is how comfy it is with exploitation. Specifically the whole adjunct situation.
@rjyoungling220 I think you are just an ignorant male Chauvinist. 1) 40 hour work week with work life balance is not a privilege or something reserved for the "feminine". It is a basic human right. 2) Just because you don't understand something doesn't or you did not experience it does not mean it is far left. It is better to keep your insensiblities down if you don't get it. 3)Science is as essential to human society just like any other public spending. If you have a grudge for spending tax money in science please go to a forest and start your own civilization there because everything you take for granted like the electricity powering your home to the electronic device you are using right now is a product of scientific research. See point 2. Keep your insensiblities to yourself if you do not have the capacity to understand. It is not a privilege reserved for the "geniuses" to work in science. Yes the root cause of the problem is the oversupply of PHds and limited funding. There has to be fair systems to limit PHd intake,and regulate their pay and working condtions. There is nothing "genius" in being exploited and overworked. It is an exploitative system that takes advantage of people passionate in science.
You know researchers are also tax payers, right? We all pay taxes, and to complain about some of that money being put into research for the betterment of society is shocking.
PhD grads "struggle" because they failed life 101 - what do you plan to do after you get your PhD? If candidates don't investigate the school they are studying in and their placement rates and simultaneously do not research the job opportunities in their particular field with a doctorate - then they reap what they have sown.
does this society need extra research for living longer, inventing new plastics, new technologies, new biologies? We know enough. We only need to start reshaping the world according to WHAT WE KNOW ALREADY
Perfectly nailed. I left academia for many of those reasons years ago, after my postdoc. What is unbelievable to me is how academia managed to secure an endless amount of highly specialized workforce to carry out research (phd and postdocs) for ridiculously low wages with minimal or absent work rights & security. And nobody blinks. Good job, academic friends. RIP.
Totally agree. I also find it baffling how academics put up with so much and get so little in return!
The problem is that that's exactly what big economic powers wanted: academia to be strongly diminished. Not by direct repression, but by "choice" of the very same academics who build it. The most capable ones leave because they see the huge issues it has, while the ones who are more interested in money, fame and prestige stay, heavily jeopardizing research quality alongside the utterly stupid parameters - like number of publications - used to "assess" the quality of its production.
Knowledge has been the most important change factor for society - it shouldn't be... but that's how it has been through history -. Those who are favored by the statu quo, obviously, don't want things to change. Hence, they're destroying the academia that has proven to be the best method known to build knowledge, just by forcing a market logic for its function - which is directly opposed with a proper academic labour -.
Yeah, at an individual level it is of course quite beneficial to leave academia. But on the big picture, that will doom us all. And I can't blame you, nor any other who left. It would still be extremely difficult to stop the momentum of this degeneration even staying within academia. There is no simple solution... or at least I can't see it. I bet no one can.
@@erigor11 with "big powers" you mean Spectre, CCP or goldman sachs?
@@fizban974 In general, any natural ol legal person with extreme economic hoarding. Those constitute around 0.001% of the population, but concentrate most (more than half) of the financial resources in the world - hence, almost all of the political power that exists -.
@@erigor11 dude, that's just a conspiracy theory. Nothing new. I expected better.
I just finished my PhD. I was able to save my mental health, but it resulted in me taking 7 years to finish. I have the luck that I had a partner that could financially support me.
The most toxic part for me was the power imbalance between supervisor and me. I didn't get in fights with me supervisor, but that is also because I didn't feel the freedom to do so. Your supervisor has to green light your graduation, and thus has a strangle hold over you. The inability to demand better treatment without the possibility of your hard word being for nothing was the most damaging for me and my self confidence.
I long thought I was going to be a professor at some point. Now I'm fleeing academia and will probably never look back.
Congratulations on finishing your PhD! Good that you had a support system, such a thing is definitely a huge factor in making the whole academic experience more bearable.
I agree the inability to demand better is one of the most insidious things about the system. Good on you for escaping!
I have also successfully found a job in a non-academic field at this point, and I’m very happy about it.
I experienced exactly the same, supervisor-wise. I am still healing. We will find a better path, sending you the best wishes ❤
I’m in the geosciences (hydrology) and a PhD student last year committed suicide in the department building. I’m only a masters student but it was enough to curb my desire for any further education. I just want to get out and work for the government now.
That's just so awful! Poor soul. Sadly, I also know of institutions where this has happened... there was even one at my old workplace, though it did not involve a PhD student. The toll this system can have on people's mental health (and lives) is really horrific. I wish you all the best and hope you can get out successfully!
A really Nice summary! I hope prospective phd students get to see this!!
I had my final day as postdoc/researcher today and you are correct in that if you thought the phd was stressful and busy you have no idea what is waiting for you as you progress beyond. I was set to leave research after my phd but ended up in a postdoc after some years as technician. Please everyone if you are on the fence and unsure about continuing as a researcher - trust your gut feeling!
Thank you! Feels validating to hear that others also agree with my sentiments. Congrats on getting out of the system and all the best for the future!
I did my PhD in physical inorganic chemistry and I really enjoyed it. I had a cool advisor, worked long hours and enjoyed the research.
Now I teach high school and still adjunct at night. It was a great time in my life.
Glad to hear you had a good time! It's definitely important to remember that there are people like you who do have positive experiences in academia. I wonder if I would have enjoyed it more if I were in a different work environment, but I know that regardless of how nice my workplace is, unlike many other academics, I have a very low tolerance for working long hours...
May i know your supervisor's name? For research purposes only 😂
Cathy, in December of 1991 I completed my Ph.D. in clinical psychology from U.S.C. - and I can attest, from personal experience, direct observation, and interaction with other graduate students over five years of graduate school, that most of the dynamics you describe are so common and stable - across departments and fields, across universities, and across decades - as to be almost universal. As an undergraduate student at Columbia University before that, I can recognize these same truths that you describe in the lived experiences of the graduate students I knew. This all has me thinking back to Paige Smith’s book, “Killing the Spirit,” which I came across in 1990, and how accurate his observations and reflections on high levels of dysfunction and rigidity within academia seemed to me at the time. The university can be a haven for highly gifted individuals with neurodiversity - perhaps, even, as Tony Attwood once said, “a sheltered workshop for the socially impaired,” but it is also a setting run and ruled by performative, malignant narcissists - and herein lies a good part of the problem.
Well put! Based on the feedback I‘ve been receiving there really does seem to be a general consensus that academia has always been like that. And I agree, there are certain people that thrive in this environment more than others, and one of these types appear to be the ruthless narcissists. I’m glad to be out of there and hopefully I‘ll never find myself in such a place so devoid of empathy again. Might check out the book you mentioned, it sounds interesting!
I did a BSc and MSc in theoretical physics with dyspraxia and I can confirm that universities _resent_ neurodivergent students. The only reason they make some adjustments in the UK is because they are forced to by the 2010 Equality Act, so if you kick and scream enough, they will implement the absolute minimum that they are legally obliged to after wasting a term of your degree on emails.
Their strategy is to tire you out. If you are doing an extremely intense degree at a prestigious university, they know there is only so much of your non-existent free time that you can waste demanding your basic rights
I'm in my 4th year of my Plant Bio PhD in the US. I have a good advisor but I have to say all the stuff you talked about in the first half of the video was so validating. I feel that so much. All the uncertainty etc. Thank you for sharing
Glad you found this video validating! Best of luck with the remainder of your PhD!
I'm only an undergrad but as a Canadian, I'm really disappointed that the work conditions aren't much better in Europe. Maybe that was naïve on my end but I was under the impression that better worker's protections laws would extend to the academic environment in many cases, but there's no stopping "publish or perish" unfortunately. I strongly sympathize and I'm sorry you had such a painful experience. I've recently decided to switch majors to computer science despite being more than halfway done and loving my current major. I only have my mom and we're not rich (or even middle-class), passion won't take care of financial anxiety, a steady paycheck and acceptable work conditions will. I hope life is easier on you now and thank you very much for sharing your experience, I'm sure it can be useful to many people. Your drawing was really pretty :)
Thank you! Glad you liked the video and the drawing. Regarding work conditions in academia in Europe, if you are lucky enough to obtain a permanent contract or work as a technician, you can have a pretty good work-life balance and benefit from worker's protections, though the salaries are not that great. In the French system, once you obtain that permanent contract, you're pretty much set until you retire, and it's almost impossible to get fired (though these kinds of positions are almost impossible to land these days).
But yes, if you're a PhD or a post-doc, you will likely experience the extreme pressure that seems to be a staple of the academic system, regardless of the "reasonable" hours listed on your work contract.
Good luck with your switch to computer science! In my opinion, financial stability and good career opportunities can actually lead to a more relaxing/fulfilling life than overworking yourself in a competitive or badly paying field for the sake of passion. Hopefully, if you have a good work-life balance, you can follow your passions as a hobby. I was unemployed for quite a while but I have now switched from biology into the medical field for similar reasons, and am doing much better these days.
@@CatharticOutlet Thank you very much for the information and encouragement! I very much agree about finding fulfillment elsewhere than a punishing work environment :)
And as an undergrad in México, we all thought academia was only unstable and poorly compensated here, having Canadá and Europe as places to possibly make it
And thats apparently not true and academia is way more broken than i thought
@@sophiaruizuvalle2523 I'd say in Canada if you *can* make it to a tenure track position (and acquire tenure) then it's great. At many research universities professors make six figures. The problem is getting a position. A single opening will easily have 200-300 applicants (almost all of them, if not all of them, highly qualified). The competition is insane, it's not something you can count on when doing a PhD unfortunately.
I appreciate you saying that those sweet "recommendation" videos, like how to choose the lab and similar ones are a little bit annoying! Exactly my thoughts before. Now I am stuck in my 5th year of PhD, trying to finish. When I started, it was difficult for me to find a position as a foreigner from the 3rd world country, so I happily jumped onto the first project that was interesting and was offered to me without further thoughts. I was so insecure in that I will find another professor who would trust in me, I appreciated this a lot, but this job is insane in the workload,almost unlivable salary and pressure 🥴
Finally someone agrees with me on this! Yes, this insecurity is very common and can keep people trapped in bad workplaces. Good luck with finishing up your PhD, hopefully you will be free soon!
I also took a 2 month ill leave from my PhD due to depression. I had just returned from a ''sandwich'' period (this is what they call it here in Brazil when you get a grant to spend some time of your PhD in a foreign institution, which happened to be in Paris lol at IAP) and was extremely overworked since I basically had 5 months to publish a paper from start to finish (this might not seem a lot for some areas but for theoretical physics it basically means working twice the normal pace). I was so focused on not breaking down while I was in Paris (the idea of having a depressive episode and needing medical care outside of my home country and away from friends and family terrified me) I think it made me access some sort of super focused work mode in my brain lol but when I returned to my home country I was so tired I couldn't take another day of PhD work. This happened five years ago and I still struggle with depression to this day, which was not a serious problem for me before my PhD. I'm in a slightly better place now, especially financially, but still no stability (basically on my second two year contract as an assistant professor with so many teaching hours I can barely do research), career or mentalwise lol.
Very sorry to hear you went through all that... I guess regardless of the discipline the issues in academia are the same… Glad that you are in a better place, I hope you are able to recover further and find more stability in your life!
I am also still dealing with the aftermath of my PhD struggles more than a year later, though in my case the issues are related more to my physical health. Anyway, all the best to you and hang in there!
I left my PhD about 1 year in because of the terrible way I was treated as a tutor
sorry to heat that... unfortunately, that is also quite common... Hope that you are in a better environment now!
In a weird spot because I'm in a non-academic job within an academic institution. I originally thought about switching into an academic track, but my coworkers don't seem happy so reconsidering.
Yeah, if the people at your workplace don't seem to be doing well, that's not a good sign. Although I sound like a negative Nelly in this video, not all academic jobs are bad and there are some people that have very positive experiences... but I believe the work culture and environment need to be right for that to be the case. If you are really passionate about research/academia I would go for it, but only if a suitable opportunity arises.
@@CatharticOutlet Yeah it’s a struggle to find something interesting enough to justify the stress and effort. We’ll see if I find something eventually.
@@PixelAquarium Good luck!
Honestly, it’s really the problem with publish or perish model. Researchers are no longer judged by how novel the research is, but how many papers they managed to get off in a certain period of time.
Competition is not bad. Exploitation is.
@@fizban974 Competition is bad by itself, in many different ways.
@@erigor11 did you make a phd dissertation on such a groundbreaking assumption?
@@fizban974 What a "smart" question.
Originally I wanted to do a PhD in Mathematics. I thought it was normal and I want to keep on learning. Sadly, my advisor for my master thesis told me I won't do that. Apparently you need to be a genius for that. Since then I lost interest, both because I realised during my thesis that I'm not good enough and because the subject (algebraic geometry) wasn't fun anymore. I think in Germany a PhD is a pretty safe bet because the pay is better and you don't count as overqualified. Even then, it just didn't work out and now (today) I got a job offer from an IT company.
I started understandung algebraic geometry after 3 years of first studying
@@mohamedaminekoubaa5231 You mean you started algebraic geometry 3 years after starting to study Maths? That's earlier than most people, I think.
@@artey6671 maybe i formulated poorly. I started studying algebraic geometry during my masters, and i umderstood many things deeply at the second year of phd
@@mohamedaminekoubaa5231 Yeah, I wasn't sure which of those two you meant. Well, I did algebraic geometry for about three years in total and I'm not sure I really got it. My advisor told me it's the most technical subject in Maths, along with arithmetic geometry, I think.
@@artey6671 yes. I work (still didnt publish anything but started writing) in arithmetic geometry.
It s just too much because the basic theory didnt settle yet.
Great video (and drawings). I am a second year PhD Candidate in Educational Leadership. I am enjoying my program and would rate my “happiness scale” at a 9-10. Important caveats: I am retired military, I am not employed, my GI Bill pays for my PhD, I attend school online, I have no existing mental/physical issues, I enjoy study/research, and I have a wonderful home life.
Thanks! Glad you like the video! Very happy to hear you are currently enjoying your PhD program, that's the way it should be! It's a pity that such experiences aren't more common. Having a good support network is definitely very valuable! Hope things will continue as they are for you (I don't think I've ever said that to another PhD candidate before)!
PhD student in Astrophysics
Mental health started at an 8, but gradually dwindled to a 2 during my first 2 years. Finally sought out mental health support, and 6 months later I'm a 5.
This help includes medication and taking 3 months off (paid, thankfully). My mental health is stable, but I'm certainly not happy, just counting down the weeks and months until it's over.
Now I'm stable and sufficiently 'ok' to push through to the finish and hopefully reap some benefit from having a PhD through the rest of my working life.
My supervisor is thankfully quite understanding and not too pushy, but I can't help but recognise that I've not met his expectations for a PhD student.
The constant stress is all-consuming. I really try not to work evenings or weekends unless I've had a bad day/week and procrastinated instead of actually working. Still, the notion that I could be working instead of living my life is always in the back of my mind, and I never truly feel at ease.
PHD is not for everyone. Only those who is dedicated to do research or are obsessed with there subjects should go for PhDs. I left phd just after 3 months.
Yes one of my friend has brought his mattress to lab and he literally sleeps eats poops and studies in the lab.
First of all: THANK YOU. I know I'm late to the party, but I wish I had found this video when you published it, as I was starting my PhD (in biomed related stuff). I just felt so validated and the feelings you described, the treatment of international students and the ridiculous demands of supervisors (who would otherwise be pretty friendly people) resonated so much with my experience that...I could have written the script for this video :')
It has taken some time (and therapy) for me to come to terms with the Ponzi scheme that is academia. It's been sad, and frustrating, because as a first generation researcher, I came to this field with all the passion and motivation inspired by this pure idea of Research as something so beautiful and at the service of the community...and then it was all crushed by the reality of "publish or perish" and the likes.
I particulary resent academia for this seemingly predatory behaviour it has on first-gen students and people coming from certain underprivileged conditions. If you don't have any academic in the family, you have no idea how toxic and out of reality certain academic places can be. And you are lured by the prospect of "being paid to study" and the prestige and the service you're doing to the community. And then you realize you are only human, can only do so much, but your supervisor and the whole system don't seem to care for you or your well-being. Only thing that matters are experiments and manuscripts.
Well, if any overworked PhD or postdoc (or any academic) is reading this line: YOU MATTER. YOUR WELL-BEING MATTERS. No service to human knowledge is so important that you have to sacrifice your life and your precious time on this planet to be miserable for it.
Believe me, you can be as (if not more) impactful to your community, family, friends, without losing your sanity and health.
Please take care.
@@Nimweh while I can’t say I’m glad the video resonated with you, I appreciate your thoughtful comment and I hope you were able to recover from your experience in academia! This is exactly why I made this video- I wanted to share my perspective because, despite what my environment sometimes made me believe - I knew I can’t be the only one who feels this way about the system.
My experience in the US, also in the biological sciences, is similar. It’s sad that this kind of experience is widespread and the norm, as opposed to the exception. I would say that I’ve consistently been at a 1-3 on the miserableness scale during the latter portion of my PhD. I’m hoping to defend soon though 🤞
I’m glad that you were able to leave academia! Thanks for sharing your story!
Thanks for your comment! Yes, it is very unfortunate how universal this experience is... academia really is a messed up system!
Sorry to hear your PhD is one of the more miserable ones (welcome to the club!), but good that you are defending soon! Wishing you all the best and hopefully things will be much better for you afterwards!
All the best with your defense Kaitlyn. Wishing you a much better experience post your PhD. As a recent molecular biology PhD graduate, I completely related to your experience. I honestly didn't know panic attacks until my PhD. I cried almost all the time, was also miserable - but grateful for friends that understood and always made an effort to support me and also cheer me up. I officially left academia after submitting last year August and started a new job in industry/corporate. I am very happy there and I hope that you also find something that will make you happy in future 🫂🤗
I work a job where at least half of my coworkers have a masters or phd. The majority of my friends have a masters or starting a masters program. I originally thought I should continue my degree but after consideration those who do have elevated degrees are doing no better than I. So I am content with my bachelors.
Interesting! I guess whether a masters is worth it can really depend on the field of study, the industry and also one's personal goals. In biology, a bachelor lets you be a technician (doing physical lab work) but it's usually not sufficient for a higher level position in research and development, where a masters is usually a minimum requirement (unlike the PhD, I didn't regret doing a maters).
@@CatharticOutlet field 100% matters. I’m glad to be in tech!
Speaking of work time, a recent EU law mandates electronic tracking of working hours. Shortly after this we had a meeting with the president of the research organization I work at. Of course the question about how this will be addressed was asked and the answer was shocking to me. We have been told outright that the tracking hours would lead to being "less competitive" in the academic sphere and that "science compatible solutions" will need to be found before the tracking can happen.
Ah yes, that law “hit” our non-academic workplace recently resulting in some interesting feedback (mainly people complaining about the extra effort required for tracking and worrying that higher ups can now see how often they work less than 40 hours a week lol). After finding out about it I wondered how/if it will be implemented in academic institutions… and your organization’s response doesn’t surprise me in the slightest! It really remains to be seen if it will improve anything or if institutions will just find a way to work around it…
I got my PhD 3 years ago and I cannot overstate how painfully accurate this video is. Thank you so so much for bringing to light these issues, the word really needs to get out about the truth of academia. I myself have personally been bullied at the workplace just like you mentioned, this has everything to do with the toxic environment around me and states nothing about my personality (I have a very low tolerance for working long hours...) Typically I cry myself to sleep every night with my sketchbook beside me, drawing 8 hours a day and posting my garbage to tumblr because I am literally unable to contribute anything more interesting in people's lives. Thankfully I have a youtube channel where I ramble about my thoughts incoherently. And everyone loves the videos I post! It's really nice to read the end of positive and supportive comments because I am not a flawed human being, I'm perfect the way I am no matter what they say!!!
I hope the situation gets better
Thank you for your thoughtful, honest reflection on the realities of academia. I unfortunately relate to a lot of what described.
Glad you appreciated the video, I'm sorry you experienced those negative aspects of academia and I hope you are doing better now!
Thank you for making this video! unfortunately I'm in a similar situation and I feel a little less crazy, for a lack of better word, to hear someone who went through something similar.
Happy to hear the video resonated with you, but sorry that you are currently going through this! Best of luck! I remember feeling crazy and like I was the only person struggling with everything during the first year of my PhD. Now I look back and see that I was just in a really bad environment which made things much harder than they had to be...
The feeling is the same here in Brazil, sadly (but unsurprisingly).
I only recently finished my bachelor's in Computer Science and even my professor was struggling with giving me orientation for my paper. To add up to it he was working a commercial job, lecturing 5 times a week and his second child was on the way while his first child was only 2!
Needless to say my final wasn't great but I am really proud of the project and the results I got. Graduated successfully and am preparing to enroll in a data science course so I can change career tracks within my current company. Wish me luck I guess lol
Yes, it seems to be a truly global phenomenon... I definitely do not envy anyone working in the higher levels of academia - it just seems like a very tough and stressful life with very little reward, especially if you want to have a family and life outside of work... It feels like the current system is set up to exploit people's passion for science.
Congrats on your graduation, and good luck with your data science course!
It is also a numbers game. The PhD candidates outnumber the stable faculty positions. So a lot of PhD students and Postdocs spend years training for a job that they can never have.
A lack of results can be stressful for the student and the supervisor.
Evo bio here: loved my PhD , but grinding to become a prof was unbearable. Jobs outside academia are so much better in every way
I’m in my fourth year of my Ph.D. in engineering sciences and I still have so many things to do, I feel overwhelmed and worried that I’m not gonna finish in time along the scholarship deadlines. I’m worried that I’m not suited for academia, I feel like what I do is not as interesting as my peers and I feel particularly alone in my research topic. There was a moment when I thought teaching and researching was something I’d love to live doing and sometimes I still do, but now I’m not sure if the academic environment is the one for me. Watching this video and reading other people’s experiences does help, it makes me think that if I choose to not follow academia right now is not the end of the world. Maybe one day I’ll find my way back to it but for now I just want to finish my Ph.D. and rest for a while before job hunting something more manageable.
Hi there! Thanks for your comment. What you are describing is pretty much how I felt when I was in the middle of my PhD. I also had the constant feeling of not being able to make it, and in my case no one else was really interested in my research topic or working in a similar area either. During my masters and the start of my PhD, I also had the feeling academia was where I wanted to stay - but that desire was killed off so throughly during the PhD that by the end I knew I’d rather be unemployed than to do a post-doc. After a recovery period and subsequent job hunt, I ended up finding a chill non-academic job that I’m quite happy with! I wish you all the best and hope you get through your PhD successfully and that you find something that works better for you afterwards!
Hi Cathy...!!!
I speak from a similar background, but back in the 80s...so it is sad to know it hasn't changed much...BUT NEEDS TOO !~~~~! Thanks for sharing and here are my own perspectives on your observations...
WORK CULTURE
I have no issues with "living the work"...and "loving the work"...!!!...I have spent a lifetime with that type of passion and dedication to a craft and/or science...However, this needs to be instilled in people (or students) as a POSITIVE passion and not some massively dysfunctional normative culture often brow-beaten into those wanting to gain a foothold into the academia of any discipline. Pick the field from medicine to life sciences to architecture (I've been in all of those and some professional level...!!!) and you will find massive egos that are actually massively insecure most often or obsessively narcissistic in nature and actually very dysfunctional human beings...AND WHY...!!!...I never finished any of my degrees but rather choose to go out in the world and "see it" and often work as "self-employed" rather than some "hot mess" of a workplace...or for "not for profits."
LONG TERM STRESS
In actual reality...this is not real...but artificial and created by the very broken normative culture of academia at large. Again, rooted in the too often narcissistic and even maniacal personalities (look up this term as tell me it doesn't fit at least 60% of the Professors you have ever met...LMAO...to some degree or another) that stay in these fields surrounding themselves with either sycophant to stroke their egos...or...some other obsessive-compulsive disorder...that gives them the social acuity of an Aardvark...which frankly are better socialized than most humans...
Stress in general in most modern humans is an addiction that they are born into and self-creates in many aspects of their life. Attachments, motivations, and fixations, regardless of parameters and reasons, are 90% self-created and not real. Take away obsessive attachment and normative culture's focus on "what is important" and stress melts away...
OPTION LESSNESS
Reread the first sentence of the above observation. Again, often rooted in the too-often narcissistic and maniacal...normative cultures...of most academic centers...THERE IS, always an option but most humans will not choose these. One is, of course leaving, with all the pitfalls that you listed in your video...the other is confrontation, but sadly most "young humans" are not equipped for battling the status quo. For those few of us that are, you can "make change" happen around you but in time you realize that what that "degree" might actually be getting you (besides massive debt and health issues) is simply of no great value in the greater scheme of life...
I personally have a half dozen chances to return to academia and the older I got the more open and inviting my friends and colleagues in academia became...but by then...there was simply no great reason to return as I was pleased and happy with the professions I worked in with virtually all of them "mandating" I have a higher degree...of which I did not have...LOL...but still was doing the work...
My actual salvation "from academia" was a Geology professor that came back to academia after 20-plus years of successful work in his field. He got me my first interview (Park Naturalist) that, of course, required a minimum of a Bachelor's degree and preferably a Master's degree. He wanted me to see and experience what was common "after" the degree was gotten...or so I thought...LOL! At the end of a three-month process, while still in school I got called in for a final interview with a state board going up against a young woman (very stressed out!!!) who (of course) had her Master's degree. Part of the interview was with both of us in the same room sitting at a table answering all kinds of questions ranging from Herpetology to how to set up an enclosure in a nature center and developing a syllabus for local school curriculums...Oddly enough...???...I got the position and thus left college which I found out later was my Geology professor's intent all along...LOL...as he could see it was a simple waste of time fumbling through all the POLITICS...!!!...that is the academic world...May the Creator bless him for eternity...!!!
ANTIQUATED HIERARCHICAL NATURE OF RESEARCH AND THE POWER IMBALANCE WITHIN
AKA...The massive and very broken..."political structure"...of academia around the globe...
This is the number one reason I have never returned to academia on a full-time or "bought-in" basis...as the power structure is massively narcissistic and inbred with one sycophant pushing the other out of the way for a favor so they can get in line for tenure or some other "tidbit" of notoriety...unless you have a massive brain and some "outside" popularity where the college or institution "grooms you" to return and share your wealth both in popularity within a given field or some other thing you process that they want to covet...
No one...and I mean virtually no one...ever addresses or confronts the overpopulation of "Academic Bullies" that are out there. I won't write about the details of what I did publically...but suffice it to say, mine went away the first year of college due to a self-created ..." in person and up close"... intervention that I conducted at the very "human level" of confronting them for their bad behavior...enough sad...They stopped and actually left academia for a while...LOL!!! Then again, I'm a male of the species, 1.87 meters tall and weighing 90kg, and naturally rather "confrontational" when I feel threatened...LOL!!!...This is not a good thing or justification, nor does 90% of students in academia have that personality trait, but "bullies" of any type...WILL NOT...ever stop unless somebody steps up and confronts their poor behavior in whatever means necessary to communicate with them to get the point across that it needs to stop...!!!
Done with my rant...and thanks again for posting your experience...This is a form of confrontation and the culture "can change" if enough folks in academia just say..." enough is enough"...!!!
Blessings,
j
Hi there, Thank you for such detailed response!
On one hand, it's nice that this video resonated with you to such an extent, but on the other hand, it is quite sad (but not surprising) that things have not really changed at all in academia since then.
I agree, the extreme work culture in academia doesn't develop naturally through passion, but is instead normalized and enforced upon people in the system.
And yes, the system is set up in a way that often only the most ruthless, uncaring and selfish individuals survive long enough to make it to the top. And it's true that the optionlessness is often a psychological, "self-inflicted" thing. It definitely was in my case, like, I knew it would be good to quit but I just couldn't give up! Unfortunately, the higher you get in academia the more the system selects for people with this kind of mentality. I know others who had very negative PhD experiences similar to mine, but then decided to continue with a postdoc, which ended up being just as toxic - they are so miserable and yet they still don't want to leave!
Glad you were able to make it out of academia so successfully - I'm still trying to find my place in the non-academic world (turns out plant scientists are not in high demand out here, so I'm pivoting into the biomedical sector)
And yes, it sucks how the academic bullies keep getting away with their behaviour while it is usually their victims who leave. The problem is that it's often hard to fight back if you are dependent on your former employer/work place to find a good job/position somewhere else (unless you leave the sector entirely). In the case of a very toxic supervisor at my workplace, me and some other PhDs tried reporting the issues to the university, local unions and larger national organizations... there were even multiple mediation sessions involving the affected student and toxic supervisor, but those didn't lead to anything. People either didn't care or couldn't do much.
I agree, the more people speak up about their issues with academic culture and their experiences, the more others will become aware of these problems and stop seeing them as "normal". I think there is a slow but gradual shift occuring - I know that in many natural science fields there is now a post doc shortage as more and more people realize that this kind of lifestyle is not worth it. So maybe change will come one day!
Perfect video. I was kicked out from postdoc by not prolonging my contract. Information came one week after my Mom funeral. I was told to organize myself and stop crying. I did not know how to start even.... i got my corporate job and recovering. Academia triggered my bipolar disorder and i regret getting PhD. It is not worth it. Academia is a Ponzi scheme. Everything bad about corporate is 10 times worse in there
@@Erintii so sorry to hear about what happened to you! Really unacceptable on the part of your institution… Glad you were able to get out and are now recovering. I am also in a corporate job since a year and I‘m doing much better. Wishing you all the best
@@CatharticOutlet Thank you I am getting better. This was my turning point a good one I must say. I hope you are fine. Academia's system is toxic and rotten to a core. The constant competition, publish or perish and lack of job stability are making ppl miserable. Competition on its own is not bad, simply it is all about a dosage.
Getting a PhD is like a dream of mine, but everything I see everywhere convinces me not to :( I am still in my first year of bachelor's, so there's plenty of time to prepare and stuff but I can't decide whether I wanna do it after all.
Well, why is it your dream? That matters more. A lot of people say they want to get a PhD and when you ask them why, they don’t seem to have a very deep answer
I 100% relate with you. After getting my PhD and going abroad for postdoc, I finally got a permanent position in France. And you know what, it's even worse after... 3 years in and I'm already following a therapy for depression, experiencing panic attacks everytime I go to work. Why? Because I am bullied by older researcher, it's an endless cycle
As an oldtimer who finished a Ph.D. in 1970 at age 24 and had a permanent professorial job ever since, my experience was entirely different. I loved mathematics from childhood and whatever time I spent doing it was a pleasure rather than "work". It was usually in my head even when I indulged in "leisure" activities such as hiking or canoeing and there were plenty of those. My supervisor was pleasant, did not help me in any way, but did not obstruct me either.
So what was different then? The main reason was that good jobs were abundant until about 1975, when the doors closed for about 20 years, resulting in a "lost generation" of would be academics. Formerly "nice" people became no longer so very nice. Even after jobs started to open up in the 1990s, vicious competition has prevailed, because too many people decided to get a Ph.D and assumed they would get a good job, but there are simply not enough of those to go around.
The other reason is that no labs were involved.
PhD in virology here, i would class me as a 10, My lab has been very supporting and healthy, however i also have the fact that my personal life has been a 0, so my phD is my happy place far away from my other problems, i was a victim of domestic and economic violence by my ex-fiance, to the point that i ended up with broken ribs, My lab collegues helped me to escape him.
i'm mexican and he is french, i'm doing My PhD in France so he had the uperhand if i wanted to go to justice....but i have my work so everything is ok.
I‘m so sorry you had to go through all that and I am glad you were able to get away and that your PhD was a form of escape for you. Glad you had such supportive colleagues! Just goes to show how varied such experiences can be
Que bueno que estás teniendo una buena experiencia allá en tu lab, y que ya no tienes problemas con tu ex ❤
Suffering with stomach problems😢.
And eye dryness, headaches, back pain, swollen legs
Too much truth in one video... The 'feeling guilty when attending things I was expected to attend' hit hard
totally agree. I believe in some fields academia is even more competitive and with more specialized topics. In what I am doing, I normally had only 1 or 2 options all over the world where I could apply for postdoc
I work in the private sector in a multi disciplinary technical engineering and science field and I feel great.
10/10
I am actually reviewing PhD applications and how little researchers are paid makes me confused why anyone wants to do a PhD.
I never went to college and would rate myself a 3 on the happiness scale. I'm not satisfied with my life, but I don't believe that going to college would have necessarily made me any happier. The irony, though, is that I do feel my inaction has contributed to my unhappiness. Reading your comments made me reflect on what happiness really means-to live, laugh, and love. It’s about having meaningful connections with friends and mentors that uplift you. Those positive relationships seem far more important for earning respect and finding fulfillment than anything 'academia' alone can offer.
First-year Optics PhD here. I really love what I’m working on, but the stress of first-year classes and the preliminary exam on top of trying to keep up with research has me at 3 rn
I just started my PhD a few weeks ago in AI and I’m at like an 8 or 9 rn
PhD in AI seems like a good deal! Looking at the current trends.... You will be sleeping on money in future!
I only did a BSc and MSc in theoretical physics at Imperial and Oxford who, as you say, should have more resources to support students and I’ve already had enough. I’ve already developed several health problems during my MSc from working non-stop with only 2 days off over 9 months and I cannot imagine it getting worse or even staying the same
my utube recomm are rigged this video with the animations were sooo well done,should have gotten it earlier,even i am thinkinh og getting a phd,this helped thanks a lot
11:16 This thought process goes by the name of "sunk costs fallacy", which is called "fallacy" for a reason.
Was thinking the same! This phrase rattles around in my brain a lot these days (PhD student considering other avenues at the moment)…
As a professor, I put my stress level at 8. It was a 9 last spring!
I have the schools worst Dean making really stupid decisions.
Marie curie fellow here, final stages of phd in biochem / mol bio / enzymes in belgium, targeting R&D in private sector next. Very well explained, definitely can relate to many points and confirm pretty much everything. I've seen and heard several cringe shitty occurrences, from psychology to archeology, not only life sciences. personally I enjoyed my phd only by periods, a lot a lot of frustration and inefficiencies, but I was lucky enough to be in a univ that is quite friendly and understanding, my supervisor was even too much loose if anything. And in belgium you have a decent salary (maybe 2200€) even at the phd level, which is uncommon. At least until you are within the nominal duration of the program, if you are one of the fast kids (unlike me). But yeah, lots of loneliness and necessity to solve stuff on your own, somehow. Lots of maintaining appearances over substance. Plus constant instability and being, now much older, at the "same" starting point. Today I'm happy about the ton of things and skills I've learned, but at an untold price. I will always wonder what if I did something else, I will never be sure this was the right choice.
@@cicinindivin3689 hi there fellow Marie Curie Fellow ;) I feel similarly to you looking back at my PhD experience. Though my current view 2 years post-PhD is that I am still not sure of I regret doing a PhD in general but I 100% regret doing it at the institution that I did… Anyway, good luck finishing up your project!
2200 gross or net? 2200 net is crazy cuz that’s like 4400 gross with the 50% tax in belgium (included the 20ish percent for healthcare)
@@rjyoungling220 Net. No, fellowships are subject to low taxes as it isn't a "real salary", you are studying and it's encouraged. Belgian fellowships pay 0% taxes (my friends), maybe something for social security but definitely not 20%. International fellowships, like Marie Curie - mine, do pay some taxes but I'm not sure how much. I believe my gross was in the mid 3000 but I'm absolutely not sure. It also changed a couple times for me. The 50% you mention is not achieved unless you earn a lot, and even then only on the amount that gets over a certain threshold, not on the total. It's in tranches. You never pay 50%. Also, we got even some bonuses so it was like 12.5 salaries per year. Belgium is great for phds. But yeah on the other hand you're not accumulating pension money if you don't pay taxes (ie you are paid with a Be fellowship)
PhD is tough. I finished my PhD within 3 years and university was asking to have 3 manuscripts for graduation and courses. In cellular and molecular biology, having three manuscripts within three years is almost impossible. I had some animal experiments that took around 6 months to get results. University was expecting PhD students to achieve impossible to be able get PhD. Most of the students take 5-8 years to finish their PhD. As a international student, I had to finish timely and worked around 80-90 hours/week with handling multiple projects at the same time. I did not take a one single day vacation for the last three years. I am now post-doc, I have decided to not push myself so much. I work around 45 hours/week now. I am thinking to shift my career to industry after my paper published. However, I am happy that I did a PhD in my field. Do not do PhD if you are not ready to sacrifice your life until university and your supervisor thinks that you deserve to get your PhD.
A while ago I thought that’s a little bit unfortunate that I probably will not be able to do a phd etc.
But after watching your video and a French documentary about a archeology phd student in France
I feel different about it because most of the time it’s probably not worth it
Eggcelent video,thank you for sharing your opinion and experience, at the same time I hope you are recovering from that and become even stronger💪🏻! I also had terrible PhD experience in Denmark, as a foreign female student coming to a highly toxic lab (cancer research). My supervisor is a sexual predator on his young students and employees, while his wife works in the same lab.He is well known in the field and has a permanent position in the Institute,where no prevention and protection net existed back then.Since I was a foreign student from middle Europe nobody cared.Sexual harassment,bullying and sexism,burn out was my everyday bread.Finally,I managed to defend the thesis,but was completely broken down and left academia immediately.I switched to data engineering and are much happier now at home country.Working with computer codes is more predictable and logical than with my former "colleagues".
The predator still works in the Institute,even after I complained a lot.New PhD students are coming...I wished someone warned me before I came there,but everybody was silent and ignorant,including senior female researchers and group leaders. Academia is broken
That's terrible. If they do not take action against sexual harassment that's the most regressive place to exist. Imagine calling themselves first world countries. I'm glad you were able to finally get out of it. Good luck.
Thank you for this video. Unfortunately, I happen to know 90% of the issues you've listed from firsthand experience.
Your voice is mesmerizing ❤
thank you!
Here is the advice I give new PhD student or thinking to do PhD: PhD is the best fit for people who love to discover new knowledge and enjoy working long hours despite a high chance of failing in any specific experiments. If this is not you then PhD is not for you.
The subtle art of academic publishing is of vital importance to the scientist. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin (perish!).
Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can, on no account be neglected.
Thus it is that in academia chase, the victorious scientist only seeks publication after the paper has been written, whereas scientist who is destined to be defeated
first do actual scientific work and afterwards looks for publication.
One may know how to publish first without being able to do scientific work first.
The whole secrets in academic publishing is in confusing the enemy, so that he cannot fathom our real intent.
Never publish first, never win!
Thus the expert in publishing research papers moves the enemy, and is not moved by him.
There are those saying that there PhD was awesome, exciting, people were supportive and they finished it with celebration and sense of accomplishment. Their world, seemingly built from gummy bears, filled with rainbows and warmth is a path which they can take barefoot, because every surface has floor heating and there is always ice cream at hand. Cute puppies accompany people everywhere.
And there are those, that sit at the dark corner, cigarette lit, tarnished, misbegotten, truly downtrodden by the entire PhD experience that was a crucible of anguish, pain and questionable sacrifice. Disillusioned down to their pain-engulfed core. Their commitment an edifice to initial ignorance is part shame-inducing, part-burden that is hard to get rid of.
The French understand and can communicate in English. But they choose not to - refuse to, and promote French. The reason for the job spec in English is that it’s the global language of business and the only language to be taken seriously for any academic paper .
Yes, we can blame globalization for this, as well as for many other issues we have. Imagine how other languages are treated when even French gets discarded as "not serious". Unbelievable, but we've done this to ourselves.
As a latinamerican
When you said, "there's no future or stability in academia at least here in EUROPE" that completly blew my mind
For us the academic dream is impossible in latinamerica and we always joke about escaping it, probably to europe or us/Canada, but you're saying that Europe isnt stable either, and american phD students have been complaining for years
So its probably not feaseable anywhere
Im glad im seeing this just after getting rejected from my masters program and getting an office job in the mean while
Maybe its Best i dont return to that world
greed and selfishness which lead to corruption and decay, I'm also a three, thanks
Maybe it is primarily so difficult because there are so few positions available? I think the administration only cares about getting the qualified people for the positions that are open and outside of that they don’t care. The administrators are the ones in charge of that level of decisions. But then maybe the full professors are just looking to make their jobs easier and that’s where the problem is. I think if somehow you could get the administrators to see how the full professors are portraying grad school they might care enough to have them be more truthful because it doesn’t advance their cause and gives the university a lower opinion in those that have experienced it and they talk.
I mean: 'what you described'
I’m currently an undergrad rising junior, and would probably put myself at a 9 on the miserableness scale (quite happy)
things could be better, but I’m doing my best in generally good conditions, and I enjoy life
I agree with most of what you said - except the language. You were the problem in that case, as most researchers speak or know at least another language besides their mother tongue.
English clearly isn't her native language though, so it's not like she just couldn't be bothered to learn another language but that she thought she fit the requirements. If you're an international student applying and it says you only have to speak English, then it is a bit of a kick when that isn't the case.
I'm literally a CNC operator why am I getting recommended this video lmao
I don’t know how I feel about this.
On the one hand, I empathize.
On the other hand, just like the NBA or any other elite group, no one is entitled to be in it.
Yes there’s more supply than demand but academia (like the NBA) is looking for the best people.
Things like “banning overtime” sends shivers down my spine.
Maybe there should be two systems. One more feminine one with a focus on work/life balance and more recreation.
And another for folks who wanna be the absolute best academics they can be.
Imagine telling someone like Michael Jordan he’s not allowed to train so hard because a bunch of subpar basketball players can’t keep up. That makes zero sense.
And when I hear things like “micro aggressions” those are terms that hold no basis in reality. They’re words that proponents of a certain ideology (usually far-left) believe are true and wish to force on everyone else.
That seems more like bullying to me.
Mixed feelings about this vid. I think there’s lots of room for improvement on the side of academia (esp OP traveling and then entering a lab where almost no one spoke french).
But on the other hand, I do feel that being in academia, researching FOR A LIVING, and on the dime of the taxpayer (who not only has no say in this but who also has to FREAKING PAY for the research they helped fund) is a huge ‘privilege’ (to use the lexicon of the far left). No one is entitled to that.
I think a better critique of academia is how comfy it is with exploitation. Specifically the whole adjunct situation.
@rjyoungling220 I think you are just an ignorant male Chauvinist.
1) 40 hour work week with work life balance is not a privilege or something reserved for the "feminine". It is a basic human right.
2) Just because you don't understand something doesn't or you did not experience it does not mean it is far left. It is better to keep your insensiblities down if you don't get it.
3)Science is as essential to human society just like any other public spending. If you have a grudge for spending tax money in science please go to a forest and start your own civilization there because everything you take for granted like the electricity powering your home to the electronic device you are using right now is a product of scientific research. See point 2. Keep your insensiblities to yourself if you do not have the capacity to understand.
It is not a privilege reserved for the "geniuses" to work in science.
Yes the root cause of the problem is the oversupply of PHds and limited funding. There has to be fair systems to limit PHd intake,and regulate their pay and working condtions. There is nothing "genius" in being exploited and overworked. It is an exploitative system that takes advantage of people passionate in science.
You know researchers are also tax payers, right? We all pay taxes, and to complain about some of that money being put into research for the betterment of society is shocking.
He who pays the piper.
PhD grads "struggle" because they failed life 101 - what do you plan to do after you get your PhD? If candidates don't investigate the school they are studying in and their placement rates and simultaneously do not research the job opportunities in their particular field with a doctorate - then they reap what they have sown.
Retired
I am at 1😂
we ve become too specialised, where is the appreciation of the homo universalis?
Noam Chomsky
does this society need extra research for living longer, inventing new plastics, new technologies, new biologies? We know enough. We only need to start reshaping the world according to WHAT WE KNOW ALREADY
Humans always want to know more things, it's in our nature. To force people not to learn is ridiculous and very dangerous, too.