Rach 3’s finale octaves: ''Who’s the best?''
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Pianists:
0:01 Vladimir Horowitz
0:24 Nikolaj Lugansky
0:52 Martha Argerich
1:16 Daniil Trifonov
1:43 Aleksandr Malofeev
2:07 Yunchan Lim
2:43 Anna Federova
3:07 Lang Lang
3:35 Van Cliburn
4:02 Alexander Gavrylyuk
4:41 Yuja Wang
5:07 Denis Matsuev
Who’s the best?
Write down your suggestions for the next “Who's the best?”
Horowitz
@@lorenzomandis7791 Io direi tu😂
Ahahahahahahahahah magari
@@lorenzomandis7791 mamma, che miseria artistica e di pensiero musicale in Wang, Lim, Federova, Lang Lang, e in gran parte di questi pianisti. macchine ossessionate dalla ginnastica, inchiodati a testa bassa alla tastiera 14 ore al giorno. c'è più arte in qualsiasi sporcatura di Horowitz o nella irresistibile impazienza di Argerich che in tutta la loro carriera. quanto tempo perso in cerca di una perfezione senza sostanza e senza cultura. che peccato.
@@sebastianolombardi136 perfettamente d'accordo
And the winner is ... Sergueï Rachmaninov for composing such powerful piece of music. I always get very emotional when I listen to this concerto and reach the finale. Thank you for this brilliant video. The idea is brilliant. 🙏👏👍
Exactly! A great gift to the world!!
And not only for composing It, but also for his absolutely excellent performance of his own piece!!!!
Difficult to compare on this small part, which is not complex to play.. Globally, nobody played the concerto better than Horowitz
The quality of recordings and live sound recordings varies enormously, making it impossible to judge them objectively.
So many espectacular performances, but yunchan and Horowitz for me. Also gavrylyuk is so underrated.
As I mentioned above, the Gavrylyuk Proms performance...the unity with conductor and orchestra is spine tingling.
The Gavrylyuk Proms performance is terrific...performance, audio and video all just wonderful.
After Horowitz and Argerich comes a new generation of young pianists...for me the one and only exiting young pianist is ALEXANDER MALOFEEV !!! Heared him live a few days ago, still speechless !!!!!
Sasha rules
Watch yunchan Lim’s full performance. Honestly the best recording of this concerto Ive ever heard and he’s only age 18.
Yes, better than Malofeev ! More nuances and clarity !! A genius !
I am with you on Alexander Malofeev.. he is a truly inspirational pianist with what appears to be an uneverending array of talent. He is perfection personified..my only concern is how much of his life he has had to devote to achieving his greatness at such a young age
@@conorsheehan1935 I prefer Yunchan Lim, by far!!! More musicality, nuances, an extraordinary touch !
How wonderful all of them. Yunchan is for sure very classic itself and storm in the calmness. :)
Yun chan absolutely !
It’s so hard to decide!!! They’re all so good!!! I might have to say yunchan, but seriously, everyone is so amazing!!!
Lim, Argerich, Bronfman. Fast but also dynamic and expressive.... not attacking the instrument but being part of it.
You have to hear Argerich's cadenza.... As much as I admire her music, she really just attacks the instrument like crazy! Such a cacophony!
Didn't see her here, nor lim or Bronfman
Yun-Chan Lim! Thank ❤❤😂😂
Argerich, Horowitz,,Yuja, Matsuev! ….as far as the question goes (final octaves) These 4 for me relish it! Argerich stands out with her precision, power and pulse of attack, like she was totally fresh and like a spectacular firework finale! Just look at how relaxed her arms, wrist etc are! All the firepower coming from within, no need to lift the hands in personal “triumph”, just serve the music with perfect technique! I do love Yunchan’s reading and delivery of the concerto as a whole and would definitely rate it amongst my top 3
Loved these comparative performances - can't wait to hear Yunchan Lim live on July 26 at Bravo!Vail.
Van Cliburn to me has a such a Russian feel in his playing. Nice and clear, and slower. I don't like speed demons. He was beloved in Russia, and his victory in the big piano competition where they had to ask Nikita Khrushchev if it was okay to give the prize to an American is an amazing moment in music & politics.
I agree completely!!!!
Van Cliburn had a great sense of humanity and was indeed immersed in the Russian soul, and as a student of Rosina Lhevine, he was immersed in the Russian piano technique.
@@axelsohn1454 Ms. Lhevine had some other notable students like John Williams, James Levine. No wonder the Russians liked Cliburn so much; he was trained in the Russian style.
Exactly
Van Cliburn best , i was there beautiful and now show
Alexander Malofeev.! He's only 17 here.
His best was last year at the Musikverein. It was hailed as a:" piano world revolution". Heart stopping! ..
I love the slow reveal in the clip, when you see how young the pianist is!
Malofeev, Horowitz reincarnated
@@ronromano4796 That's insulting to Malofeev.
@@alanpotter8680 i agree with this. although i don't believe malofeev is better than horowitz i think it's degrading to compare such an amazing young pianist against somebody else. he should be his own thing.
There is no “best” interpretation. They’re all great!!!
No they’re all gay.
@@beavermcdoogles this isn’t Tchaikovskys piano concerto
@@Ace-dv5ce 💀
😨
@@robloxianeoner Ukraine is also gay
Yunchan Lim ❤❤❤❤
No one has approached Horowitz for the electrifying legato of his precise, booming octives. Argarich and Yunchan distant seconds. Horowitz still the champ.
Ok boomer.
Horowitz was many things, precise was not among them.
@@michaelcooper3633 On this occasion he WAS. The wartime performance was even more dynamic. The phrase "Horowitz octaves" is familiar to all serious pianists.
@@michaelcooper3633 A true musician would not call others boomer.
I would put Wang as 2nd, then Argerich
@@michaelcooper3633 His wrong notes wsre sublime. We used to ooh and ahh at them they were like magic sparks of lighting exploding from the Steinway. We used to say ' Ah but what wonderful wrong notes'.
They're all marvelous of course, but I was surprised how taken I taken with Cliburn: Magesterial cadence. Very elegant and he even got all the notes.
Yunchan Lim
Malofeev, amazing talent and precision
wow. Yunchan really is that dude
yunchanLim!!!👍👏🤗❤
Yunchan Lim
Argerich! That rhythm! That bounce!
Listen to them without the names, and this is the obvious answer!
Yunchan Lim. No question. All you have to do is watch the entire performance. His skill is otherworldly.
But...we are Not taking into account the entire performance ONLY the final octaves are being compared and Horowitz easily surpasses Lim in Speed, Clarity, Brilliance and Electricity!!!!
The Stretta bei Horowitz is uncomparable.. No one else dared that
Keep in mind this is horowitz later in life, his early recordings are absolutely insane, just listen to the final octaves of his 1930 coates recording, nobody can match the speed he played it at
There is definitely question. That is why there is at least one other interpretation in this video. Welcome to the world of art!
YUNCHAN LIM
Lugansky! Saw him live few days! Amazing! probably best Rachmaninov interpreter today
I don’t agree ! Yunchan Lim is better, more nuances and musicality !! By far !!
Same, I preferred Lugansky bc the accents hit harder.
Yunchan lim
2:39 - I don't know if he got lucky with the orchestra... but his part was basically perfectly/ awesomely in sync with the orchestra. That was amazing and beautiful to listen to!!
Horowitz will always hold a special place in my heart with this concerto, but for me Yuncham Lin has the edge here, and the Van Cliburn interpretation has a poise to it at the beginning of the passage which makes the accelerando run for the line all the more exhilarating. Oh what I wouldn't give to hear a Hamelin Interpretation of this concerto.....
Horowitz was in his 70s when that was recorded. I think the original one was awesome. That being said Mr. Lin is a fantastic pianist as Argerich and the fine musicians shown. Be Well, T
Все -- лучшие и разные !!!Это -- искусство , которое не должно быть одинаковым , штампованным !!!Поэтому пора отменить конкурсы и психологически терроризировать исполнителей, а устраивать Музыкальные Фестивали , где все участники раскроятся творчески полнее , а продюсеры будут их популизировать !!!
Hamelin has recorded it btw
The Van Cliburn interpretation combines power and sensibility without the slightest trace of romantic sensationalism, a rare achievement!
@@ЕленаДанильян (раскроЮтся.)Вы совершнно правы.
Lugansky plays the passage more accurate and clear than the rest. It seems like he's in total control of the piece
Of all these, Horowitz’s performance etches out the octaves very clearly. He never obscures them with the pedal, nor does he slow the tempo very much - all of which makes his presentation astonishing here.
He plays out of time though
But he’s a full beat late tho.
You conveniently neglected to mention his erratic timing and clanging tempo. Astonishingly awful is what it is.
Astonishingly out of time...
The timing tho
Horowitz was playing a gag. He wanted the audience to gasp. The man was an incomparable showman.
Yun - Chan Lim but also Horowitz...
Yunchan is the best, followed by Horowitz/Argerich, but Bronfman should be on the list too. Glad Lugansky was on the list, he is a monster.
Horwitz comes first for this piece.
@@JoshuaLo2732yea
I'm partial to Yunchan Lim,
But this is not a fair comparison at all, when some are recorded with quality audios, while others are old or recorded in inferior quality audios.
And Yunchan Lim is one of those with inferior audio as we know the Cliburn Competition did not have the best audio.
While Horowitz can crank out the best Rach 3, that particular concert was not his best. His performance in his heyday younger version should have been posted.
Yunchan Lim was amazing on that Rach 3, but he was just out of this world at the Lincoln Center in NYC when he played with the NYPhil last May. It was so fresh, and I heard some of the things I haven't heard with the conventional Rach 3. I can't exactly pinpoint, but he was improvising the Ossia, which was incredible, that it literally gave me goosebumps.
You listen to Rach 3. And you listen to Yunchan Lim's Rach 3.
It was one of those incredible moments in my life.
My goodness, what a fabulous treat compilation! Thank you so much. I'd have to go with Van Cliburn.
yunchan lim~~~~^^
Yunchan Lim enters the chat ... 😃
Yunchan Lim- without question.
The kid is only 18. Give me a break. Let's see if and how he grows as an artist. This is not running the mile where the "best" is objectively known to all observers.
It’s not a matter of age! He is already very mature and his interpretation of this concerto exceeds that many of his olders
@@davidcotuit there are many legendary classical music pieces composed when the composers were in their teens. Mozart, Beethoven, Liszt... for example. Liszt composed some of the Etudes of TE when he was in his teen. In fact, he started to compose the TE when he was 15. Don't estimate the age, just because someone is a young teenager does not mean they can't deliver quality.
@@dionysus4778 And Mendelssohn was the greatest of all the young prodigies. But I take exceptions that "many" legendary compositions were composed by teenagers. In fact number is quite small. Legendary for this purpose means fully realized and accomplished music. Certainly Mendelssohn, Mozart and Schubert but very few. The same applies to performers. There are virtually no truly mature and great instrumentalists in their teens. Within 4 or 5 years, Yunchan will truly come into his own.
All marvelous performances of a very difficult finale. I'm partial to Horowitz and Argerich, but Yunchan Lim got my attention. There was a release of tension that doesn't always come through in this piece. He nailed it. Thanks, RachmaninoffFanatic!
I just watched Yunchan Lim's complete performance of the Rach 3... that young man is phenomenal. Would love to have a CD of that performance. Maybe he will record it? Soon?
Scott: I totally agree! Horowitz and Argerich are way up there with their consistentcy in their octave playing. But Horowitz with his flat-finger octaves is amazing. If you notice, the other pianists keep their curved finger position hovering somewhat high above the keys. Conversely, Horowitz places his flat-fingers relatively close, creating an almost sliding effect, allowing gravity to assist in achieving a remarkable and consistent tone. Yes, Yunchan Lin has a somewhat lighter, brighter approach with the descending octaves. All the artitsts heard on this video would make Rachmaninoff stand proud.
@@pianoman551000 Exactly, there isn't a bad performance in the bunch. I like your comment on Horowitz!
@@scottkirby8204
ua-cam.com/video/QEoDyuUZ06Y/v-deo.html
This performance is from a month or so before the Cliburn and it’s much better quality. Best I can do to help.
@@masantonio8790 You are correct. He doesn't make it look easy - nobody could - but it's almost as if it were written for him. And this young man isn't even twenty yet. Thank you for sharing this.
Yunchan is the Horowitz of the 21st century.
ㅈㄹ
I love Yun-Chan Lim(^_^)
And I repect the late Horowitz
Yuncham Lim. Definitely. His playing is just majestic and out of this world. His skill is just impressive.
He is the new Horowitz.
Personally Yunchan, but wow everyone is so amazing. Great respect for all musicians!
All are superb and they look and sound as if they are doing their utmost to make it all work. Except Yunchan Lim. He seems to just toss it off as if it were as easy as a Clementi sonatina. His playing of Liszt's Feux Follets is equally astonishing.
If you put Horowitz from Coates in 1930. No one comes remotely close (Except Rachmaninoff himself). Here we have him as an old man and he is still
holding his own.
This
Exactly. Nobody was better than Horowitz but Rachmaninoff. An almost 80 year old Horowitz is still the best. I was at the 1978 NY Phil concert. It was the most incredible piano memory of my life.
He's not just holding his own, he's the best in this selection by far. The precision, the articulation, the "no drama", the sync with orchestra and all of that in the highest tempo. Now as you say, his earlier recording is even better.
That’s what I’m saying.
Horowitz recording (1941) of both the Rach 3 and Tchaikovsky 1st with Sir John Barbarolli conducting is just stunning...
Another vote for Yunchan Lim!!
💥 The guy takes a glass of water from the ocean and concludes that there's no fish in the ocean. So is taking the final notes to the whole concerto. 😮😮
Perfectly said.
You can’t help ending this concerto without a huge smile
Horowitz and Argerich, but honestly, Yunchan Lim has some of the best listening and phrasing.
I always like what Van Cliburn does too, as he really tries to bring out the heart of a piece.
Cliburn is an emotional favorite, but he never played this concerto as well as the Tchaikovsky.
@@Sutherland2 What do you mean "the Tchaikovsky"? Tchaikovsky died before this piece was even composed...
@@evifnoskcaj The Tchaikovsky concerto, dummy. Not Tchaikovsky himself. You need better English lessons.
No, Argerich should be a drummer, all she does is to pound
@@evifnoskcaj Van Cliburn chose to perform a very obscure piece called Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto when competing in a small local competition in Moscow which is named after a humble local Russian composer.
absolutely Yunchan Lim!!
Among these, I'd say Horowitz and Argerich. But my best choice would be Emil Gilels, especially in his live recording with Ormandy and the PO.
I love how Argerich and orchestra time it perfectly when she starts the descending octaves.
There is no one like Argerich. Simply incredible.
I'm so proud of Yunchan Lim as a Korean that his play is in this video. He was just 18 years old
There is no "BEST" . . . truly great musicians never compare themselves.
Spot on! Music is not like a sport ! Nobody has to reach a finish line first. Reading through all these comments and how they differ, proves my point. The listeners all have different tastes and of course different knowledge. If they have played these pieces / passages themselves with orchestras , then they might just have an advantage. But are we talking about mere technique? Surely technique is just a means to an end. And the end … what is that? A perfect interpretation . But again , even interpretations differ. They differ even whilst observing the same pianist playing the same concerto , or piece, on a different day. Musical performances are fluid and mercurial , so to try and rate what or who is best, is always merely an opinion. Personally I like to get beyond the technique. Speed and precision are mere tools to achieve a hopefully beautiful result. A result that will move the listener to such an extent that they are completely bewitched /moved by the music.
I am a great musician and compare myself to others constantly.
In my humble opinion,you should've included Grigory Sokolov..
Not only that he plays all alternative passages indicated as "ossia" ,
but he is also the only musician I've heard playing the quadruplets instead of triplets in the finale,
and he absolutely nails it, although, it's objectively harder since it has to be faster and more synchronized with an orchestra.
Thanks for the comment, in the next videos I will try to integrate Sokolov too. If you have any other suggestions for the next videos I will be happy.
I think Andre Watts used to play the ossia octaves too.
@@accs4 Interesting
@@accs4 He sure did: ua-cam.com/video/EYs-ii50zBs/v-deo.html
@@j.d.miller4203 Amazing
My heart goes to Yunchan, since he is just 18 and is on the way to be a virtuoso. He is a poet!
Playing that!?!?!?
He's already a virtuoso....
And Malofeev is, what(?) at the time? 50? Enough of the favoritism.
they are both amazing. i take a liking to yunchan because if you listen to his story he was at one point discouraged from continuing his piano studies because he was behind most other students, but had some sort of a transformation and became a sensation. but i also very much respect malofeev because he specifically pointed out that he is not a prodigy but instead devoted a large chunk of his life to practicing daily.@@alanpotter8680
Yunchan lim without a shadow of a doubt
Yunchan Lim
I have to go with Yunchan Lin also...the clarity is sublime.
Yunchan Lim for me 🎹🎶
I am won over by the excitement in Denis Matsuev's performance. However, the rhythmic vitality of Van Cliburn and his great balance with the orchestra places him at top tier. I also loved the energy and balance in Aleksandr Malofeev's performance.
Малофеев классный, но Горовиц...)
For me Alexander Malofeev is the exiting pianist of a new generation of young pianists !!!!!
Less than Yunchan Lim !
Yunchan Lim
Horowitz is the Master always.
I love young Alexander Malofeev apart from the others though
the question should be - who do you like the best-art is subjective. And I prefer Lim's interpretation of the whole work, you cannot judge just by one final fragment.
Thank you! I totally agree. Why does there even need to be a best? Besides, every performer has their good days and bad days.
Yunchan Lim!!!
1. Vladimir Horowitz, 1930s, ua-cam.com/video/vRvVk12dvkg/v-deo.html&ab_channel=classicalrarities
2. Cyprien Katsaris, 1980s, ua-cam.com/video/oRoTtZfiw9I/v-deo.html&ab_channel=CYPRIENKATSARIS
3. maybe the imaginary Rach. 3 recorded by Hamelin or Cziffra at their prime
I believe it is impossible to say who is “best” because our ability to judge the technique and musicianship of the pianist depends to a large degree upon the way the recording of the piano and orchestra has been engineered. Frankly, I think they are all awesome! I was brought up with the recordings of Rachmaninoff himself, and his approach to all four of the concertos was quite different.
Horowitz always. But Yunchan Lim right behind him.
No Martha is right behind horowitz
His had the lowest amount of energy and movement, he doesn’t shape the melody at all or have any idea about the phrase structuring like the rest of the pianists here he’s the last by a long shot. He seems disorganized and unclear about the shaping here and awkward with no direction. Do not judge critique based on who won a competition which I’m assuming is where this is coming from as the greats have said those things are lottery tickets not merit based. Listen to the intention and direction these other pianists have and the active listening they are doing to shape their dynamics and phrasing with the orchestra. They are clear about where to place the string beats and the weak beats move and also they have larger picture phrasing and especially the last few chords the resonance and length they hold them to have that resonance come out to combat the loud orchestra and make it still sound. Their ideas work well with the score his does not it actually fights against it in a bad way. The reason he won is it’s become an unfortunate trend for the musical community to focus on young people and technique that’s it…. The most superficial and least important qualities, the piano tradition of the grand romantic tradition was way better and we have lost the more important focuses that cannot be easily taught or learned which is analysis and interpretation not to mention basic phrase counting. Technique is important but it is a material to be used to support and construct music, not to be the music itself or else you have notes and no music. Wood and metal don’t make a house on its own it’s the structuring and balancing and the artistry of the mind that does that. With the death of Earl Wilde we lost the last of the greats who had these irreplaceable skills that were lose because they were taught mostly word of mouth and weren’t necessarily written down. All we have is textbooks of harmony and theory and technique which is why that’s all we have. I found one teacher out of tens of them to finally learn this and it’s significance and how it put you head over heels above technique which is not individualistic and everyone can do, but analysis and interpretation is something everyone can use to make their own mark and impression in pieces.
Oh
@@emilypeng7195argerich is above all of them
Yunchan Lim is nowhere near Horowitz in Rach 3
Ummm malofeev or Lim now that I listened to it again
Lo escuché dos veces y definitivamente, para mi, el tempo y la sincronización Mehta-Horowitz es impecable. Después me gustó Yuja Wang. Debo reconocer que esperé ver en acción a Kissin y a Volodos. Gracias por subir la selección.
Bronfman también
Yunchan Lim. Epic!
Horowitz and Yunchan!
Very hard comparison, for me it's either Yuja Wang or Yunchan Lim
All great. Horowitz most effortless.
🎉 Yunchan Lim💥💫
Alexander Malofeev in Frankfurt Sept. 2022 and Munich 2023.
Horowitz 🥇
Yunchan Lim 🏅
Yunchan Lim. Argerich. Yuja Wang, Daniil Trifonov my favourites...absolutely.
Vladimir Horowitz plays piano like no one else played ever, especially Rachmaninov's music
Yuncham Lim...Horowitz...Trifonov...Malofeev.......
I would pick among Van Cliburn, Yuncham Lim, and Horowitz.
Van Cliburn and Matsuev for me.
i agree !
Yuja Wang and Alexander Malofeev, of course ❤❤ are the best
An interesting thing is that I think Rachmaninoff intends for the tempo to get faster and faster in the score. Many pianists don’t do this
Yunchan Lim for me.
Yungan Lim!! Eto blesk vpechatlyaet best!!
In overall performance, I don't think Yunchan Lim's rach 3 is the best one but for the finale octaves, his performance almost always gives me goosbumps.
yunc han Lim
Are you all going to ignore that kiss?
ATTENTION: SOME ONE - IS JEALOUS And Has "A Deranged Mind!!! Regarding "THE FAKE PHOTO"!! A Good Doctor NEEDS TO HELP THEM -FAST!!!!!
Malofeev, it’s so full-bodied and tempestuous
For me? Yun Cham Lim because his ending part touch is more detailer then others.
Horowitz, sin duda. ¡ Y con 75 años !
And A. Malofeev was just 17!
Horowitz always manages to thrill with his phrasing and emotional power. Always loved Van Cliburn's beautiful and heart felt performance in Moscow for which after winning the Tchaikovsky competition when only 23 in 1958 he was given a ticker tape reception down Broadway to ecstatic NY crowds.
Hands down HOROWITZ!!!! Even at this late physical age the Speed and Electricity surpasses everyone in this playing field!!!!!!! Remember this comparison is "Only" of the very end! The decay of Horowitz's technique is more apparent in other sections of the long concerto.
They're all great but for me definitely the marvelous Martha ❤
Lugansky’s playing is addictive, I think he completely wipes the floor with the other pianists here. Such unbelievable power and emotion. He’s without question the best interpreter of Rachmaninoff.
One is cautious to proclaim a winner here but that would be, with no equivocation, Mr. Lim. His Rach 3 is/was, in every way, the finest performance ever done.
Surprised Volodos and Rachmaninoff's recordings aren't here. Maybe no videos? Gavrilov & Pletnev, too. The conductor really adds to the excitement here, and to my ears, the best were playing with Horiwitz & Argerich. Looked like Mehta and Chailly.