Thank you! I was just asking myself „Didn‘t he already done it?“ This is going to be interesting(again)! By the way: I sometimes watch/listen videos of you 3-7 times. On one hand to grasp everything, because I use it to fall asleep. On the other hand because you have such a nice voice and your videos are filled with so much interessting infotmation that it would be a waste to not listen to it more than once.
Agreed, as someone who was left very jaded by how the TV series turned out, I hadn't looked at anything GoT-related for ages, then several months ago I started watching this channel again and it's reminded me of what I loved about ASOIAF in the first place. Thanks Robert!
I think her last appearance in Dance with Dragons is so interesting. She seems to know Jon is about to be killed, she is told that Stannis is dead and yet she slips away... "Look to the sky, Lord Snow, and when you have your answers, send to me. Winter is almost upon us now. I am your only hope."
She’s also a Shadowbinder from a Asshai. And can birth “Shadow Babies”. I think that there is a division between Red Religion of Volantis and Asshai. Think of it as difference between the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodoxy or the Protestants or the Evangelical movement. They share the same basic tenants (tenets) of the Faith, but follow different ideologies and sometimes completely different tradition, with sometimes hold adamantly to very different positions wherein their brethren of the other branches just plain don’t associate with them.
What an excellent comment. Hoping others see this. I think your comparison is really well drawn. She started as a Red priestess but when she went to Asshai, where dark arts are practised freely, she probably came back with "heretical" knowledge which therefore led to her being "excommunicated." Or maybe she simply neglected to tell her superiors and went to Westeros to pursue her visions as suggested in the video
Her needs to do a big long video explaining all the revenant characters in these books - the people who die but "come back". He thinks she is one - and sees similarities between her and Lady Stoneheart. And then there's the Mountain. And the walkers.
@@jenniferpearce1052 another great insight. Religion is not a static thing, even the most dogmatic and traditional ones. Admittedly, we don't know a ton about what R'hhlor demands of his servants but there does seem to be a hierarchy of clergy, evangelists, bureaucratic liaisons and even a warrior sect in the form of the Fiery Hands. I wonder how these organisations have changed over what is almost certainly, the millenia they have existed. (Based on how old Mel implies she is and how deeply established R'hllor is all over the place. With his massive temple coming to mind)
@@ThommyofThenn Timelines in ASOIF are so wonky, it is hard to tell. If, for example, you compare the Catholic church of today to the Catholic church of 1623, you will find huge differences. But Planetos seems to be stuck in the middle ages.
Melisandre has always been one of my favorite characters, both in the books and in the TV series. To me, it had always been clear that she never liked or enjoyed the things she did and that she always served what she believed to be the greater good. That never made her a good person but such an interesting character. You perfectly summarized and put into words what I had felt before. Thank you for that!
One of my favourite mysteries in AsoIaF is the oily black stones that can be found all over the world, I'd love to see one of your amazing in depth videos about that and hear any theories you may have about it
If she’s that old then she was alive when the current prequel to Game of Thrones takes place. I would be cool if we got to see her as a young woman in the next season.
Don't get your hopes up... She was probably over in Asshai during that time. I thought she only came to Westeros recently to find the Prince Who was Promised
I never read the books but I really appreciated seeing her have a crisis of faith in the show. If it's not in the books then it really should have been. Even having the ability to perform miracles is not enough to ward her from doubt
She's a personification of the means vs ends debate in moral philosophy. Made even more complex because no one knows what the ends (whether she succeeds or not) are, and so her character is really asking the audience the question _"does belief in an end justify the means?"_
It seems like the compassion she shows toward certain characters like Davos and Maester Cressen is a function of her devotion to Stannis. She shows compassion toward Davos, and doesn't try to have him killed when she definitely could have, because she sees how absolutely loyal he is to Stannis. Likewise, I think she understood that Maester Cressen's attempt to poison her was also based on his own devotion to Stannis, merely trying to free him from what he considered a harmful influence (we see this since the prequel chapter is from Cressen's pov). So while Melisandre undoubtedly considers them misguided for opposing her, she sympathizes with the underlying reason for their doing so. And, at least in Davos' case, I think she sees him as still a useful and loyal supporter for Stannis, if only she could convince him to fall in line with her own efforts to support Stannis.
I recall from Game of Thrones, that her necklace is her power to appear young. There was a scene that when she removed it, she was transformed into her old woman body. A most interesting character for sure.
Hey Robert, new fan here, and im loving the content. Started listening about a week and a half ago while I work, and I'm through most of your ASoIaF and LoTR stuff, and a good handful of streams. Keep up the good work! I normally don't comment towards the creator but I figured I'm here early so I'll give it a shot.
The Great Other and Rh’llor not being what they seem is a great point. I seriously doubt that at the end of the story, characters like Melisandre and Bloodraven will be vindicated for their terrible crimes because “they were right about the danger”. That doesn’t seem like what GRRM would write
I think the only vindication they would receive is saving the lives of others, but they are sacrificing their own humanity for the sake of it. But i dont think the rest of humanity will be saved in any way melissandre or the reader expects. Its deff going to come at a cost where the characters question if their sacrifices were truly worth it. Like mirri maz dur points out, "what is the value of life when everything else that comes with it is gone?" I think that idea is going to foreshadow the sacrifices that will be made to survive winter.
Would you not accept that there is a condescension to her compassion? Closer to what someone might display towards a sheep caught in a thorn bush than a person in distress. There is also the burning people alive thing.
You make characters come alive in a different way than merely reading can. We miss things while reading. Even if we don’t want to admit it. Your LOTR characters are no different! Outstanding!!
That is sort of the way an Ai(Artificial Intelligence) module would think, and it makes sense given she is clearly not human. My question is who gave this former human, who seemed to have grown up poor(evidenced by when she shared thoughts of the ‘bowl of brown’ with Gendry) the necklace bringing her to this new life.
Thank you for continuing to make such thought provoking videos. The way you blend visuals with a concise analysis of fantasy world's always makes for a great watch!
My favourite character ever. I loved her line from the show when Davos confronts her about burning the princess. "I did not lie.. I was wrong.." It really sums it up
When you read the Melony scene and lot 7 it made me wonder if she was connecting to the spirit of the face she may be using. I just reread through Arya's final chapter and there is a similarity in how Arya experienced the life of the first face she wore. Could Melisandre be a practitioner in the faceless men magic? The kindly man explained to Arya that the wearing of faces magic is deeper than the glamors used by sorcery ( but that she would still learn some sorcery and how to use a glamour). Could that Melony on Lot 7 be the memory from the person whos face she is wearing, similar to what Arya experienced when putting on her first face? That thought was only sparked because of your reading and that i just read the arya chapter again last night. What if she is a faceless man who has donned a rhollor priestess face and her old personality has been mostly consumed by this priestess. What if melisandre has always been "no one" and in her past life (before donning a rhollor priestess face) she was like Arya and maybe had some greenseer / ice magic (maybe child of the forest)and is now combining the two. Shes been wearing this "skin" so long that she may legitimately not remember who she really was. Pretty tinfoil especially the extra bits i just added toward the end... But the faceless men magic seems fairly plausible given her age.
Makes me wonder if she's a warg-spirit that possessed the body of a red-priestess. Definitely a nonsense idea, but that would really be ice and fire combined.
I would LOVE to see a video on what you think about is the true source of her powers and magic in general. That's one of my biggest questions about that world is whether the Gods are real or not and where magic comes from. Great video as usual!
For me Melisandre's role is to realise that it's actually Jon who is Azor Ahai and not only are her fellow red priests wrong in believing it is Daenerys but she also is by believing in Stannis. GRRM has given us two red herrings whilst giving subtle hints towards Jon culminating in the moment during her pov chapter when she seeks to see Azor Ahai but Rh'llor shows her only 'Snow'.
Exactly. Daemerys fits the prophecy better right now, but that has the major issue where we only heard the prophecy AFTER she had already seemingly fullfilled it. Thus she seems to be the red herring, with Jon's resurrection likely being what fullfils it
@@kalemboyle7930 Jon being Azor Ahai is a very obvious take and it assumes that the prophecy is correct enough for there to be an Azor Ahai. You really think that is the story GRRM is trying to write?
@@vicdark8807 It's actually not that obvious just from the text alone but the fact that there is such a passionate fandom that have had 12 years to dissect every word from the books and discuss it online leads to a false sense that everything is just so 'obvious'
Great vid as usual IDG. Mel is such a fascinating character to me ; especially all the mystery , intrigue and unknowns to speculate and try to discern. Also , the sort of duality at work with her , being outwardly a harsh ruthless unmovable religious zealot. Yet we can at least see there is a bit more going on there (especially via her POV) ; a tragic backstory , insecurity , some bits of sympathy & compassion, a great deal of responsibility , pain / suffering and more of a rogue lone operator rather than a cog in an org. Seemingly convinced of her path and her role in saving the world ; at near any cost it seems. Doesn't absolve her from all the very bad she does in that pursuit. But at least gives us a glimpse there is a bit more going on. As IDG mentioned she is seemingly somewhat right / on the right path in identifying the problems and trying remedy them (helping save the world). Though will be far from straight forward. Mel will be forced to pivot , likely switch allegiances , realize her own misinterpretations & misconceptions etc ; while staying the macro course and doing more very grey if not full on bad things in the process. Mel is certainly a fascinating character imo ; presenting very much a certain exterior with a bit more going on under the surface. The mystery and unknowns around her just add to that ; her origins , experiences , extent of abilities, exactly how old she is etc. To even exactly what she is. She may have been a magically adept & trained person who became a fire wight , some hints that could be the case. But it seems a step beyond that imo , almost as if she is becoming fire made flesh (or vice versa) ; to me seems could be more a transformation at work with Mel than any fire wights we have encountered previously.
The “mortal men” comment and the compassion and empathy are what truly stands out. She may be the only adult in the story who ever shows empathy and compassion for anybody not related by blood. Those two qualities aren’t in the personality trait pool of Westeros.
@@PeaceDragon9 Ya. Without doubt. Missed that one as well. There are a few. The old Bull is kind to Jon. Dany is nice to people. I sort of missed on this one. Tyrion is good to Jon. Ned is good to Robert. It’s a big story. Lotta ins. Lotta outs. I officially rescind the second part of this comment, and double down on the “mortal men” part 🤷♂️😬
Not meaning to kick you while you're down, I just want to celebrate some other kind characters. Donal Noye, Qhorin Halfhand, Yoren, Sandor Clegane (sometimes), Maesters Aemon, Cressen, and Luwin, and Barristan Selmy. This isn't even including characters that died before the story began and by no means is an exhaustive list. I feel sad when people character ASOIAF as bleak. There really is a lot of kindness and love and hope to be found in these books, despite all the darkness.
Just saying: I'm over here reading A Feast for Crows (again) at lunch and had just read the words "Lady Melisandre" in i believe Sam IV when this popped up in my feed. Weeeird. Looking forward to the video 😆
Asshai is probably my favorite place in ASOIAF universe. Id love to know more about the Shadow Lands & it’s cities, Asshai the great port city, though sparsely populated & all food & water must be imported, & the corpse city Stygai. I’d like to learn what a corpse city is, how it became such, & more about the demons said to live there. Dragons were said to come from Asshai, & still live in caves up the Ash river. The Shadow Lands definitely need more exploration in the future. I hope Martin goes into it, & more videos on it too. It only adds to the mystery to flesh it out a little more. It’s so easily overlooked with all the other fantastical things in the series.
I just noticed this: when she’s hearing voices of the past, “a man’s voice called, ‘lot seven.’” That might be a nod to The Stranger, the 7th among The Seven. In a lot of ways, she embodies the dark and mysterious nature of that deathly entity. I wouldn’t say the connection goes much deeper than that, but it casts her in that same shadow-of fear, the unearthly, the unknown.
:) Another great video. Comparing Melisandre with some of the other characters I've wondered if she was killed at some point in history and brought back for this role/destiny. I've always thought of her as "The Red Witch".
Pros: hot red haired priestess with magical powers. Cons: really an old lady that sucks the life out of you if you have sex with her. Is it worth it? Probably.
If the world needs proof that men and women are different, its this comment right here. I cannot imagine a woman saying she was willing to instantly age to death just to have sex with a hot guy!
Thanks for this video. Mel is one of my favourite characters ever, not just in ASOIAF, so I really enjoyed this. I always wondered why she was so steadfast in believing Stannis is Azor Ahai. Unless I missed that point?
As much as liked the actress of the series I cannot say that I liked the character of Melisandre on the books. She was directly responsible for lots of grievances and needless loss of lives.
I've had a tinfoil theory that Mel is a member of House Lothston, descended from Mad Danelle and sold into slavery after the houses downfall. This would make her a new Witch Queen of Harrenhal figure like Danelle and Alys Rivers. The Queen's Men in Stannis' army refer to Mel's followers rather than his wife and Harrenhal sitting on the God's Eye Lake, the closest castle to the Isle of Faces, might make it another hinge of the world like Asshai and the Wall.
Nah dude her and moqorro are gonna convince Danny and the one true king to Wed and combine their claims and end the war for the throne by slaying the mummers dragon and raining fire on the lanisters and kings landing 💯 no cap 🧢
I saw one thing, so it's probably not true since it was so vague, that she is the fire witch talked about during the Blackfyre rebellions, a hidden daughter of Aemond and Alys Rivers and their son created house Whent which lead to Catlynn Stark through her mothers side making her kids descendants of a targ and connected to the witch
I have to say that I love the idea of a evil fire God, usually in fantasy power doesn’t come without the cost and the all powerful beings usually aren’t good. It would make sense that white walkers have a enemy on the other side of the wall , like the world is divided between two evils, one fire one ice one shadows and one in the open. I could truly see this fire God becoming the ultimate evil/villain in the end not revealing yourself until the white walkers are defeated!
I really like the way you interpret the text and Martin's comments to enrich your understanding of the world, and that you pass that onto us in such an understandable way.
Demons have black blood in the SOIAF universe, and Melisandre is from Asshai, where demons are said to live up the Ash River, near the corpse city of Stygai where only shadowbinders dare to explore but also fear. My theory is she is part human and part demon. Melisandre is a shadowbinder, a firemage, and something of a bloodmage. The black blood & being from the Shadow Lands makes me think she has some connection with demons at the least. That her blood is black could mean resurrection, necromancy is also freely practiced in Asshai, but demons have black blood too. Martin created demons in his universe, very specifically with black blood, described as having horns too, which she doesn’t appear to have, yet. She’s known to cast glamours as well. She made Rattleshirt look like Mance, & there is speculation that she glamours herself. So, demons exist in ASOIAF, but we haven’t yet seen much of them. Descriptions of them exist from characters describing the far East of Essos & beyond. There are records of demons in Westeros, though references are fleeting. I think it’s just as possible she has a pact with or was corrupted by a demon, or the product of a demon & a human, which I’m currently leaning towards. It’s nice to see more videos on her, she’s a rather underrated character from the series
Just as a few other SOIAF characters, the ends justify the means to her. But this aspect of serving , possibly risking her own life also alligns with the core sacrifice of Nissa Nissa to forge Lightbringer. Davos in the books wonders if Edric Storm is to play the role of Nissa Nissa, but maybe Melissandre sees herself as her?
Hey, thanks, great video! I appreciate your insights, but some things got me wondering, and i thought to put them down... The impression I had upon reading was that the distinction she makes between "mortal men" was not necessarily referring only to herself as an individual, but to all Red Priests, or perhaps, more acurately (and this is only my especulation), to Red Priestesses especifically. Or, saying another way, to all the clergy of the Lord of Light who are somehow bound to the flames though spells (and i think we can at least speculate that maybe only women can). I say that because it is notable to me that (iirc) with the exception of Melisandre, all of the clergy of the Lord of Light that we know in the story are men - Toros, Moqorro and Benarro. And they, while all capable of glimpsing things in the flames, are not confirmed to be able to do most of the things Melisandre can. In their description, none (again, iirc) have, for example, a gem that acts as a sort of focus to their spells, and, with the exception of Toros who was showed creating "fire wights", as you called it, none showed particularly notable magic (to be fair, we don't see much of them). However, we can safely assume that Melisandre's ruby gem is closely tied to her spells, and that in a way she casts them though it: when Rattleshirt dies she shares his agony in the flames through the necklace, because she had to mantain her glamour on him, making him look like Mance. When one attempted to poison her, it is noticebly through the necklace that she nullified the poison (although this is maybe more of a tv show thing than a book thing, one can see why such a narrative choice was made, mainly based on her chapter). Another very important thing, i think, is that she says that one of the things a servant of the Lord of Light first learns is to "never let the fire die out". Why? Although this could have a merely symbolic meaning (and i dont doubt it is so for most Red Priests), in that context, when she confirms that the Lord of Light sustains her and therefore she has no need for food, I think this means quite literally that the fire sustains her, and that all her "abilities" (the resistence to poison, the lack of need for food or drink and even sleep, to a lesser degree, and her ability to cast spells, or at least some of them) come from her connection to a fire. This to me suggests that she has a way to bind herself or her "magic" gem to a fire or a hearth, and that this connection is the source of some of her powers. All this to say that it doesn't seem to me that she is referring only to herself in the distinction to "mortal men", but, more specifically, any member of the clergy capable of such things. If she is alone in that category by defaut, we don't know. Either way, I think its valid to point this out because i dont think the distinction is made based on something necessarily exclusive to her, but rather on the magic arts in which she was initiated (and that thus there may or may not be other people she shares such traits with). However, (and this is my speculation per se) also worthy of note is the fact that some of her spells, mainly those that involve Shadow, or shadow binding - such as the shadow "spawn" that killed Renly and the glamour (for that was a manipulation of shadows, she says very clearly) appear to require a womb to be cast. Why, to give "birth" to a Shadow one quite litelrally requires a womb, (besides the sexual act with one who casts a large shadow) and when she cast the glamour she bled internally, in other words, i think its safe to assume she bled from her womb. So, my point is that what distinguishes her from mortal men is that in her initiation to shadow magic something was done to her, modified in her body, and that the prerequisite of such a transformation was to have a womb. And if that is true, then there is a whole realm of shadow magic, or, in other words, a realm of magic from the domain of R'hllor (if that is indeed who she serves) that is utterly inacessible to the male members of the clergy. I think this ties perfectly to the fact that, as you pointed out (and also some people in the comments), she apeears to represent a different, splinter faction from the Red Temple, a different doctrine, perhaps. It was pointed out in the comments her connection to Ashai as perhaps relevant in this distinction, but the fact that she is a woman could be equally as relevant, and if it is, it could suggest that such a faction (perhaps an older, forgotten branch) was composed solely or primarily of women, and that they keep the secrets of shadow magic (of which we have no hints of from the male priests). Is this idea too sexist? Probably. Either way, with how shadow magic was portrayed, it is improbable that it could be practiced by priests, and therein might lie what distinguishes Melisandre, either from mortal men, either from other members of the Lord of Light clergy. Be that as it may, i think the interesting question is this: if this is true, and there are heights in the practice of the Lord of Light magic that are inaccessible to men, is it not curious that Benarro - in a way, equivalent to a Pope of his religion - is male? Add to that the fact that all the more "contemporary" prominent figures of the Lord of Light religion that we know are male (the three mentioned earlier) and we perhaps could especulate that in the history of their religion there was a fracture, that involved different domains of magic and its practicioners, those who used shadow magic and those who do not. The distinction of sexes perhaps is only relatively important in relation to the realms of magic they had access to. It pertinent to remember also that R'hllor is the god of light, but also of shadow. The Other, however, is the god of darkness. Their fracture could thus stem from a different interpretation of the role of shadow itself (and therefore of the magic that pertains to this domain) in the worship of R'hllor and his oposition to the Other, maybe likening it closer to darkness than to the light. But that is truly a wild guess.
Stannis and Melisandre’s arc slightly mirror the nights king who had sex with and joined forces with an ice wight woman, creating monstrous offspring with the man’s seed.
She is my favorite character in the show and the books. I see her as a misunderstood saint/martyr. One which is very human and tragic just like all of us are. Another one of Martin's gray characters.
I think the one thing I kind of caught a sense of when Stannis lost his battle was that she is given visions by an entity, but that doesn't always mean her goals actually line up with the entities desires. The entity had its reasons for pairing her with Stannis..But its goal may not have been for Stannis to succeed. She is as much of a pawn of the entity as anyone else..sometimes she just gets a slightly better picture of the future than everyone else. But that picture is open to interpretation, and not all of her interpretations may be 100 percent correct.
Thinking about all of her supernatural powers, it makes the A Clash of Kings introduction even more interesting. I wonder if she would have felt anything if she actually drank the poison in that chapter? I can only imagine how crazy that would have played out if she drank it, didn't feel a thing, and then the maester's shock and possibly even revealing that he tried to poison her was what happened.
rereading Dance with Dragons and it’s explicitly stated that Melisandre is really good with reading the flames in the fire. so many people criticize her skill and say that she’s always getting things wrong. that could be what Mr. Martin is referring to by her being misunderstood.
Love these videos. I have wondered if Melisandre is something more than a fire wight. At one point Berick Dondarion says each time he comes back he loses a part of himself. I wonder if Melisandre has become something akin to a fire wight without ever having died and come back. Sort of a fire wight 2.0, something more than.
This was easily one of the most interesting and intriguing characters and the actress was amazing in this role. I did not read the book, so don't know how close she was the written character.
I just got to the part in season 8 of GoT where she dies, and I have so many questions... is that how it happened in the book? What is the significance of the necklace? It seems to give her the young appearance to hide her old hag form.
Melisandre is a great character, and I'm so glad we got that POV chapter of her's, or else we would not even understand who she really is as a character. She was ringing the alarm bells about the "Great Other" or whatever you want to call the force behind the Others far earlier than anybody else. But Maester Aemon is correct in pointing out that some of her actions are leading humanity further into darkness and ignorance. Giving Stannis a false "Lightbringer" (an empty glamor, not the genuine artifact) has done nothing but cause confusion about Azor Ahai, for example. I get the impression that she is so distracted by wanting to "win" at all costs, that she is blinding herself to the very real damage she is doing. Doing the wrong things for the right reason, so to speak.
I just remember her saying she had a role to play in the war. And she did! For every bad thing she did, she did ultimately try to help when winterfell was under attack. And in the end, she took off her necklace and became ash that blew into the wind
I think she is a true believer, her faith is deep. Being a heretic does not change that. She was brought up in the faith but at some point "went to college" at ShadowBinder U in beautiful Ashai by the Shadow, where so many changes happen..
She's one of my favourite characters in the show and the books. Mysterious yet motivated and seeking the best of humanity even if it means to hurt the few to save the many.
It makes me think of that old poem about the end of the world by Frost. Its possble both Ice and Fire are trying to bring ruin in their own ways. "Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice."
Perhaps incidentally, but dark blood tends to be old blood. Sure, she’s a shadow binder and all, but she’s also no spring chicken. Her blood is old. Could be another reason why it’s so black when it comes forth.
One thing I've always found curious about Melisandre is: why Stannis? Granted, it has been a bit since I re-read the books so I don't remember if there's anywhere where she explains why she came to believe he was Azor Ahai, but I don't think so. How did the two of them even meet anyway?
She always seems to be cursed by her magic. It burns her and hurts her and threatens to consume her. She is also constantly fearful of being somehow found out. She adds potions and powders to make tricks to her spells. She worries about her appearance incase how she looks makes her vulnerable. In all these details, i get the impression that she is being forced into a role, and then left to sink or swim. Someone (god, mortal, other) trapped her in a bargain, and now she is their champion, and can have no rest until she's paid her debt.
Additional thoughts: I suspect M was a slave in Valyria before the doom. Her specific association with (possession by?) fire, implied longevity & all-but-confirmed backstory as a slave lead me there. We know Valyria was built & sustained by both fire & blood magic, & M practices both combined as Valyrians did. That’s about as far as I get with that. Perhaps she learned from Valyrian mages (owned by one?), perhaps the god she thinks is R’hllor is actually some old Valyrian god, because I too suspect she’s not actually serving the god she thinks she’s serving, but that’s about as far as I get.
This is an updated and revised version of a video originally uploaded in December 2017. Enjoy!
Thank you! I was just asking myself „Didn‘t he already done it?“
This is going to be interesting(again)!
By the way: I sometimes watch/listen videos of you 3-7 times. On one hand to grasp everything, because I use it to fall asleep. On the other hand because you have such a nice voice and your videos are filled with so much interessting infotmation that it would be a waste to not listen to it more than once.
I do not relisten, but I do listen late in the evening to relax to your voice
SHE WAS A WITCH
Carice van Houten was so perfectly cast. Having read the books, I was so happy with her performance.
Hottest character of the show
@@EM-tx3ly Megahot
She did a great job.
@@EM-tx3ly Especially for her age... Iirc she was already in her 40s near start of show.
@@darkerdaemon7794that's not old though
Thank you so much for keeping the flame burning for ASOIAF. It has been a long, dark winter awaiting the new books. Love your work 🙏
For the night is dark and full of terror
Oh my sweet summer child... ❤️🔥
Winter is coming…
well, I hope so
@@Lotschi Yes, let’s hope so!!!
Agreed, as someone who was left very jaded by how the TV series turned out, I hadn't looked at anything GoT-related for ages, then several months ago I started watching this channel again and it's reminded me of what I loved about ASOIAF in the first place. Thanks Robert!
I think her last appearance in Dance with Dragons is so interesting. She seems to know Jon is about to be killed, she is told that Stannis is dead and yet she slips away... "Look to the sky, Lord Snow, and when you have your answers, send to me. Winter is almost upon us now. I am your only hope."
She did tell Jon to keep Ghost close to him. What if Jon listens to her…
@@darthknowl9222i personally wouldn’t have been as confident stabbing his ass with ghost there
She’s also a Shadowbinder from a Asshai. And can birth “Shadow Babies”.
I think that there is a division between Red Religion of Volantis and Asshai. Think of it as difference between the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodoxy or the Protestants or the Evangelical movement. They share the same basic tenants (tenets) of the Faith, but follow different ideologies and sometimes completely different tradition, with sometimes hold adamantly to very different positions wherein their brethren of the other branches just plain don’t associate with them.
What an excellent comment. Hoping others see this. I think your comparison is really well drawn. She started as a Red priestess but when she went to Asshai, where dark arts are practised freely, she probably came back with "heretical" knowledge which therefore led to her being "excommunicated." Or maybe she simply neglected to tell her superiors and went to Westeros to pursue her visions as suggested in the video
If she is 400+ years old, she may have been raised with completely different tenets of the religion than are in any sect of R"hllor now.
Her needs to do a big long video explaining all the revenant characters in these books - the people who die but "come back". He thinks she is one - and sees similarities between her and Lady Stoneheart. And then there's the Mountain. And the walkers.
@@jenniferpearce1052 another great insight. Religion is not a static thing, even the most dogmatic and traditional ones. Admittedly, we don't know a ton about what R'hhlor demands of his servants but there does seem to be a hierarchy of clergy, evangelists, bureaucratic liaisons and even a warrior sect in the form of the Fiery Hands. I wonder how these organisations have changed over what is almost certainly, the millenia they have existed. (Based on how old Mel implies she is and how deeply established R'hllor is all over the place. With his massive temple coming to mind)
@@ThommyofThenn Timelines in ASOIF are so wonky, it is hard to tell. If, for example, you compare the Catholic church of today to the Catholic church of 1623, you will find huge differences. But Planetos seems to be stuck in the middle ages.
Carice Van Houten played that role perfectly, it also didn’t hurt that she is absolutely gorgeous.
Melisandre has always been one of my favorite characters, both in the books and in the TV series. To me, it had always been clear that she never liked or enjoyed the things she did and that she always served what she believed to be the greater good. That never made her a good person but such an interesting character. You perfectly summarized and put into words what I had felt before. Thank you for that!
Still a weird choice.
One of my favourite mysteries in AsoIaF is the oily black stones that can be found all over the world, I'd love to see one of your amazing in depth videos about that and hear any theories you may have about it
Always a good night when Robert comes with a banger ASOIF video! Thanks mate.
If she’s that old then she was alive when the current prequel to Game of Thrones takes place. I would be cool if we got to see her as a young woman in the next season.
Don't get your hopes up... She was probably over in Asshai during that time. I thought she only came to Westeros recently to find the Prince Who was Promised
@@Shane2sweet1 Yep, she showed up on Dragonstone a couple weeks before Stannis returned there from King's Landing.
Alys Rivers
we wuz targaryen's n shieet
How would you ever truely know if she was her 'younger' self knowing she can appear any age she wants?
I never read the books but I really appreciated seeing her have a crisis of faith in the show. If it's not in the books then it really should have been. Even having the ability to perform miracles is not enough to ward her from doubt
She's a personification of the means vs ends debate in moral philosophy. Made even more complex because no one knows what the ends (whether she succeeds or not) are, and so her character is really asking the audience the question _"does belief in an end justify the means?"_
It seems like the compassion she shows toward certain characters like Davos and Maester Cressen is a function of her devotion to Stannis. She shows compassion toward Davos, and doesn't try to have him killed when she definitely could have, because she sees how absolutely loyal he is to Stannis. Likewise, I think she understood that Maester Cressen's attempt to poison her was also based on his own devotion to Stannis, merely trying to free him from what he considered a harmful influence (we see this since the prequel chapter is from Cressen's pov). So while Melisandre undoubtedly considers them misguided for opposing her, she sympathizes with the underlying reason for their doing so. And, at least in Davos' case, I think she sees him as still a useful and loyal supporter for Stannis, if only she could convince him to fall in line with her own efforts to support Stannis.
I recall from Game of Thrones, that her necklace is her power to appear young. There was a scene that when she removed it, she was transformed into her old woman body. A most interesting character for sure.
Another great installment! Thank you for keeping the interest and intrigue of GRR Martin's world fresh.
Hey Robert, new fan here, and im loving the content. Started listening about a week and a half ago while I work, and I'm through most of your ASoIaF and LoTR stuff, and a good handful of streams. Keep up the good work!
I normally don't comment towards the creator but I figured I'm here early so I'll give it a shot.
Thank you and welcome!
@@InDeepGeek Robert, I'm relatively new too. Can you post a list of all your episodes?
The Great Other and Rh’llor not being what they seem is a great point. I seriously doubt that at the end of the story, characters like Melisandre and Bloodraven will be vindicated for their terrible crimes because “they were right about the danger”. That doesn’t seem like what GRRM would write
Melisandre is the hero of the story. If they would have listened to her then they wouldn't have lost as much
I think the only vindication they would receive is saving the lives of others, but they are sacrificing their own humanity for the sake of it. But i dont think the rest of humanity will be saved in any way melissandre or the reader expects. Its deff going to come at a cost where the characters question if their sacrifices were truly worth it. Like mirri maz dur points out, "what is the value of life when everything else that comes with it is gone?" I think that idea is going to foreshadow the sacrifices that will be made to survive winter.
Would you not accept that there is a condescension to her compassion? Closer to what someone might display towards a sheep caught in a thorn bush than a person in distress. There is also the burning people alive thing.
Interesting perspective.
who did she burn that didn't deserve it, though?
@@dpkastelthe kid
@@ssidhu8327 I meant in the books...The REAL Meli. 🤣
@@dpkastelI'm not sure anybody deserves to be burned alive.
You make characters come alive in a different way than merely reading can. We miss things while reading. Even if we don’t want to admit it. Your LOTR characters are no different! Outstanding!!
Absolutely love Mel, she's so mysterious.
And the most important thing: She's hot, total milf
Melisandre’s motivations are, “The ends justify the means.”
Her motivation is saving the world from the White Walkers. "The end justifies the means" is an operating philosophy.
Oh yes - it's hard to judge how she plays the game when we don't even know what cards she's holding (or has up her sleeve)!
That is sort of the way an Ai(Artificial Intelligence) module would think, and it makes sense given she is clearly not human.
My question is who gave this former human, who seemed to have grown up poor(evidenced by when she shared thoughts of the ‘bowl of brown’ with Gendry) the necklace bringing her to this new life.
She’s like the Lord of Light’s version of Bloodraven if you really think about it.
I agree. But I felt she was evolving past that philosophy.
Thank you for continuing to make such thought provoking videos. The way you blend visuals with a concise analysis of fantasy world's always makes for a great watch!
My favourite character ever. I loved her line from the show when Davos confronts her about burning the princess. "I did not lie.. I was wrong.." It really sums it up
When you read the Melony scene and lot 7 it made me wonder if she was connecting to the spirit of the face she may be using. I just reread through Arya's final chapter and there is a similarity in how Arya experienced the life of the first face she wore. Could Melisandre be a practitioner in the faceless men magic? The kindly man explained to Arya that the wearing of faces magic is deeper than the glamors used by sorcery ( but that she would still learn some sorcery and how to use a glamour). Could that Melony on Lot 7 be the memory from the person whos face she is wearing, similar to what Arya experienced when putting on her first face? That thought was only sparked because of your reading and that i just read the arya chapter again last night. What if she is a faceless man who has donned a rhollor priestess face and her old personality has been mostly consumed by this priestess. What if melisandre has always been "no one" and in her past life (before donning a rhollor priestess face) she was like Arya and maybe had some greenseer / ice magic (maybe child of the forest)and is now combining the two. Shes been wearing this "skin" so long that she may legitimately not remember who she really was.
Pretty tinfoil especially the extra bits i just added toward the end... But the faceless men magic seems fairly plausible given her age.
Makes me wonder if she's a warg-spirit that possessed the body of a red-priestess. Definitely a nonsense idea, but that would really be ice and fire combined.
Right it is likely utter nonsense, but who knows, as you said it could be a major combination of ice and fire
I would LOVE to see a video on what you think about is the true source of her powers and magic in general. That's one of my biggest questions about that world is whether the Gods are real or not and where magic comes from. Great video as usual!
For me Melisandre's role is to realise that it's actually Jon who is Azor Ahai and not only are her fellow red priests wrong in believing it is Daenerys but she also is by believing in Stannis. GRRM has given us two red herrings whilst giving subtle hints towards Jon culminating in the moment during her pov chapter when she seeks to see Azor Ahai but Rh'llor shows her only 'Snow'.
You really think GRRM had such low hanging fruits in mind?
@@vicdark8807 ?
Exactly. Daemerys fits the prophecy better right now, but that has the major issue where we only heard the prophecy AFTER she had already seemingly fullfilled it. Thus she seems to be the red herring, with Jon's resurrection likely being what fullfils it
@@kalemboyle7930 Jon being Azor Ahai is a very obvious take and it assumes that the prophecy is correct enough for there to be an Azor Ahai. You really think that is the story GRRM is trying to write?
@@vicdark8807 It's actually not that obvious just from the text alone but the fact that there is such a passionate fandom that have had 12 years to dissect every word from the books and discuss it online leads to a false sense that everything is just so 'obvious'
As I am reading the books(I'm on the second one), It really is interesting to see all the differences from the show. I really enjoyed this video.
Great vid as usual IDG. Mel is such a fascinating character to me ; especially all the mystery , intrigue and unknowns to speculate and try to discern. Also , the sort of duality at work with her , being outwardly a harsh ruthless unmovable religious zealot. Yet we can at least see there is a bit more going on there (especially via her POV) ; a tragic backstory , insecurity , some bits of sympathy & compassion, a great deal of responsibility , pain / suffering and more of a rogue lone operator rather than a cog in an org. Seemingly convinced of her path and her role in saving the world ; at near any cost it seems. Doesn't absolve her from all the very bad she does in that pursuit. But at least gives us a glimpse there is a bit more going on. As IDG mentioned she is seemingly somewhat right / on the right path in identifying the problems and trying remedy them (helping save the world). Though will be far from straight forward. Mel will be forced to pivot , likely switch allegiances , realize her own misinterpretations & misconceptions etc ; while staying the macro course and doing more very grey if not full on bad things in the process.
Mel is certainly a fascinating character imo ; presenting very much a certain exterior with a bit more going on under the surface. The mystery and unknowns around her just add to that ; her origins , experiences , extent of abilities, exactly how old she is etc. To even exactly what she is. She may have been a magically adept & trained person who became a fire wight , some hints that could be the case. But it seems a step beyond that imo , almost as if she is becoming fire made flesh (or vice versa) ; to me seems could be more a transformation at work with Mel than any fire wights we have encountered previously.
The “mortal men” comment and the compassion and empathy are what truly stands out. She may be the only adult in the story who ever shows empathy and compassion for anybody not related by blood. Those two qualities aren’t in the personality trait pool of Westeros.
Samwell Tarly...
@@ArawnOfAnnwn I stand corrected…
Osha from wilding to guardian of the Stark boys?
@@PeaceDragon9 Ya. Without doubt. Missed that one as well. There are a few. The old Bull is kind to Jon. Dany is nice to people. I sort of missed on this one. Tyrion is good to Jon. Ned is good to Robert. It’s a big story. Lotta ins. Lotta outs. I officially rescind the second part of this comment, and double down on the “mortal men” part 🤷♂️😬
Not meaning to kick you while you're down, I just want to celebrate some other kind characters. Donal Noye, Qhorin Halfhand, Yoren, Sandor Clegane (sometimes), Maesters Aemon, Cressen, and Luwin, and Barristan Selmy. This isn't even including characters that died before the story began and by no means is an exhaustive list. I feel sad when people character ASOIAF as bleak. There really is a lot of kindness and love and hope to be found in these books, despite all the darkness.
Just saying: I'm over here reading A Feast for Crows (again) at lunch and had just read the words "Lady Melisandre" in i believe Sam IV when this popped up in my feed. Weeeird. Looking forward to the video 😆
By far the best breakdown I have listened too concerning Melisandre thankyou.
I always love your analysis! I hope one day you get into Brandon Sanderson
It would be great if we could get some stories or even a show about Asshai where she was from. It is such a mysterious and far away place.
That would ruin all the mystery and appeal.
Asshai is probably my favorite place in ASOIAF universe. Id love to know more about the Shadow Lands & it’s cities, Asshai the great port city, though sparsely populated & all food & water must be imported, & the corpse city Stygai. I’d like to learn what a corpse city is, how it became such, & more about the demons said to live there. Dragons were said to come from Asshai, & still live in caves up the Ash river. The Shadow Lands definitely need more exploration in the future. I hope Martin goes into it, & more videos on it too. It only adds to the mystery to flesh it out a little more. It’s so easily overlooked with all the other fantastical things in the series.
She was great. Perfectly cast. A mysterious character that kept me intrigued.
I just noticed this: when she’s hearing voices of the past, “a man’s voice called, ‘lot seven.’” That might be a nod to The Stranger, the 7th among The Seven. In a lot of ways, she embodies the dark and mysterious nature of that deathly entity. I wouldn’t say the connection goes much deeper than that, but it casts her in that same shadow-of fear, the unearthly, the unknown.
:) Another great video. Comparing Melisandre with some of the other characters I've wondered if she was killed at some point in history and brought back for this role/destiny. I've always thought of her as "The Red Witch".
Always enjoy your videos. Very good analysis and it will be fun to see how it all plays out.
You've always been most awesome in explaining. Thank you so much ❤
See this in my feed made my day!
Not needing to eat is low-key why Stannis fell in love with her
Best joke😂
lmao
wow! This is an insightful character analysis, love it.
I wish you had a character study playlist!
Pros: hot red haired priestess with magical powers.
Cons: really an old lady that sucks the life out of you if you have sex with her.
Is it worth it? Probably.
If the world needs proof that men and women are different, its this comment right here. I cannot imagine a woman saying she was willing to instantly age to death just to have sex with a hot guy!
You can fix her!
You had me at red hair
@@justachannel8600 far too often, that is my internal monologue.
@@Customerbuilder You must be strong! Never give into the temptation.
Thanks for this video. Mel is one of my favourite characters ever, not just in ASOIAF, so I really enjoyed this.
I always wondered why she was so steadfast in believing Stannis is Azor Ahai. Unless I missed that point?
This channel is wonderful. I've been binging all of your videos.
There is no shortage of amazingly beautiful women in this show but the actress that played Melisandre is at the top of the heap for sure.
As much as liked the actress of the series I cannot say that I liked the character of Melisandre on the books. She was directly responsible for lots of grievances and needless loss of lives.
Cool video. Appreciate the analysis!
I've had a tinfoil theory that Mel is a member of House Lothston, descended from Mad Danelle and sold into slavery after the houses downfall. This would make her a new Witch Queen of Harrenhal figure like Danelle and Alys Rivers. The Queen's Men in Stannis' army refer to Mel's followers rather than his wife and Harrenhal sitting on the God's Eye Lake, the closest castle to the Isle of Faces, might make it another hinge of the world like Asshai and the Wall.
Melisandre is the glue holding Stannis together...not knowing that he is gonna explode anyways
Nah dude her and moqorro are gonna convince Danny and the one true king to Wed and combine their claims and end the war for the throne by slaying the mummers dragon and raining fire on the lanisters and kings landing 💯 no cap 🧢
Nah. Stannis is Stannis, regardless. He's faced worse odds and come out the victor.
Probably why you shouldn't use a mixture of gunpowder and thermite as glue. 😂
Brilliantly played by Carice van Houten.
I think Mel is around 160 years old tops. I think for her beliefs it would be just wrong if she lived when dragons were around
I saw one thing, so it's probably not true since it was so vague, that she is the fire witch talked about during the Blackfyre rebellions, a hidden daughter of Aemond and Alys Rivers and their son created house Whent which lead to Catlynn Stark through her mothers side making her kids descendants of a targ and connected to the witch
If she is a fire white, then perhaps she reanimates John in the same Way Berwick reanimated Caitlyn.
She was always my favorite while reading. Especially once I got to her POV chapters
Oh yay a deep dive on one of the most underrated characters from the books!!
I have to say that I love the idea of a evil fire God, usually in fantasy power doesn’t come without the cost and the all powerful beings usually aren’t good.
It would make sense that white walkers have a enemy on the other side of the wall , like the world is divided between two evils, one fire one ice one shadows and one in the open.
I could truly see this fire God becoming the ultimate evil/villain in the end not revealing yourself until the white walkers are defeated!
I really like the way you interpret the text and Martin's comments to enrich your understanding of the world, and that you pass that onto us in such an understandable way.
Demons have black blood in the SOIAF universe, and Melisandre is from Asshai, where demons are said to live up the Ash River, near the corpse city of Stygai where only shadowbinders dare to explore but also fear. My theory is she is part human and part demon. Melisandre is a shadowbinder, a firemage, and something of a bloodmage. The black blood & being from the Shadow Lands makes me think she has some connection with demons at the least. That her blood is black could mean resurrection, necromancy is also freely practiced in Asshai, but demons have black blood too. Martin created demons in his universe, very specifically with black blood, described as having horns too, which she doesn’t appear to have, yet. She’s known to cast glamours as well. She made Rattleshirt look like Mance, & there is speculation that she glamours herself. So, demons exist in ASOIAF, but we haven’t yet seen much of them. Descriptions of them exist from characters describing the far East of Essos & beyond. There are records of demons in Westeros, though references are fleeting. I think it’s just as possible she has a pact with or was corrupted by a demon, or the product of a demon & a human, which I’m currently leaning towards. It’s nice to see more videos on her, she’s a rather underrated character from the series
OMG Robert! I have been hoping to see something recent from you c: I have been loving your Lord's of westoros live streams
Love these videos, keep it up!
Just as a few other SOIAF characters, the ends justify the means to her. But this aspect of serving , possibly risking her own life also alligns with the core sacrifice of Nissa Nissa to forge Lightbringer. Davos in the books wonders if Edric Storm is to play the role of Nissa Nissa, but maybe Melissandre sees herself as her?
Hey, thanks, great video!
I appreciate your insights, but some things got me wondering, and i thought to put them down...
The impression I had upon reading was that the distinction she makes between "mortal men" was not necessarily referring only to herself as an individual, but to all Red Priests, or perhaps, more acurately (and this is only my especulation), to Red Priestesses especifically. Or, saying another way, to all the clergy of the Lord of Light who are somehow bound to the flames though spells (and i think we can at least speculate that maybe only women can).
I say that because it is notable to me that (iirc) with the exception of Melisandre, all of the clergy of the Lord of Light that we know in the story are men - Toros, Moqorro and Benarro. And they, while all capable of glimpsing things in the flames, are not confirmed to be able to do most of the things Melisandre can. In their description, none (again, iirc) have, for example, a gem that acts as a sort of focus to their spells, and, with the exception of Toros who was showed creating "fire wights", as you called it, none showed particularly notable magic (to be fair, we don't see much of them). However, we can safely assume that Melisandre's ruby gem is closely tied to her spells, and that in a way she casts them though it: when Rattleshirt dies she shares his agony in the flames through the necklace, because she had to mantain her glamour on him, making him look like Mance.
When one attempted to poison her, it is noticebly through the necklace that she nullified the poison (although this is maybe more of a tv show thing than a book thing, one can see why such a narrative choice was made, mainly based on her chapter).
Another very important thing, i think, is that she says that one of the things a servant of the Lord of Light first learns is to "never let the fire die out". Why? Although this could have a merely symbolic meaning (and i dont doubt it is so for most Red Priests), in that context, when she confirms that the Lord of Light sustains her and therefore she has no need for food, I think this means quite literally that the fire sustains her, and that all her "abilities" (the resistence to poison, the lack of need for food or drink and even sleep, to a lesser degree, and her ability to cast spells, or at least some of them) come from her connection to a fire. This to me suggests that she has a way to bind herself or her "magic" gem to a fire or a hearth, and that this connection is the source of some of her powers.
All this to say that it doesn't seem to me that she is referring only to herself in the distinction to "mortal men", but, more specifically, any member of the clergy capable of such things. If she is alone in that category by defaut, we don't know. Either way, I think its valid to point this out because i dont think the distinction is made based on something necessarily exclusive to her, but rather on the magic arts in which she was initiated (and that thus there may or may not be other people she shares such traits with).
However, (and this is my speculation per se) also worthy of note is the fact that some of her spells, mainly those that involve Shadow, or shadow binding - such as the shadow "spawn" that killed Renly and the glamour (for that was a manipulation of shadows, she says very clearly) appear to require a womb to be cast. Why, to give "birth" to a Shadow one quite litelrally requires a womb, (besides the sexual act with one who casts a large shadow) and when she cast the glamour she bled internally, in other words, i think its safe to assume she bled from her womb. So, my point is that what distinguishes her from mortal men is that in her initiation to shadow magic something was done to her, modified in her body, and that the prerequisite of such a transformation was to have a womb. And if that is true, then there is a whole realm of shadow magic, or, in other words, a realm of magic from the domain of R'hllor (if that is indeed who she serves) that is utterly inacessible to the male members of the clergy. I think this ties perfectly to the fact that, as you pointed out (and also some people in the comments), she apeears to represent a different, splinter faction from the Red Temple, a different doctrine, perhaps. It was pointed out in the comments her connection to Ashai as perhaps relevant in this distinction, but the fact that she is a woman could be equally as relevant, and if it is, it could suggest that such a faction (perhaps an older, forgotten branch) was composed solely or primarily of women, and that they keep the secrets of shadow magic (of which we have no hints of from the male priests).
Is this idea too sexist? Probably. Either way, with how shadow magic was portrayed, it is improbable that it could be practiced by priests, and therein might lie what distinguishes Melisandre, either from mortal men, either from other members of the Lord of Light clergy.
Be that as it may, i think the interesting question is this: if this is true, and there are heights in the practice of the Lord of Light magic that are inaccessible to men, is it not curious that Benarro - in a way, equivalent to a Pope of his religion - is male? Add to that the fact that all the more "contemporary" prominent figures of the Lord of Light religion that we know are male (the three mentioned earlier) and we perhaps could especulate that in the history of their religion there was a fracture, that involved different domains of magic and its practicioners, those who used shadow magic and those who do not. The distinction of sexes perhaps is only relatively important in relation to the realms of magic they had access to. It pertinent to remember also that R'hllor is the god of light, but also of shadow. The Other, however, is the god of darkness. Their fracture could thus stem from a different interpretation of the role of shadow itself (and therefore of the magic that pertains to this domain) in the worship of R'hllor and his oposition to the Other, maybe likening it closer to darkness than to the light. But that is truly a wild guess.
This video turned me from hating Melisandre to wanting to give her a hug out of sympathy.
Stannis and Melisandre’s arc slightly mirror the nights king who had sex with and joined forces with an ice wight woman, creating monstrous offspring with the man’s seed.
I remember the scene when she tried to give the maester an out from drinking the poison and thinking that the character was quite complex.
She is my favorite character in the show and the books. I see her as a misunderstood saint/martyr.
One which is very human and tragic just like all of us are. Another one of Martin's gray characters.
first time im this early in one of ur videos, really love them man, keep it going!!
I think the one thing I kind of caught a sense of when Stannis lost his battle was that she is given visions by an entity, but that doesn't always mean her goals actually line up with the entities desires. The entity had its reasons for pairing her with Stannis..But its goal may not have been for Stannis to succeed. She is as much of a pawn of the entity as anyone else..sometimes she just gets a slightly better picture of the future than everyone else. But that picture is open to interpretation, and not all of her interpretations may be 100 percent correct.
The only happy ending for a Song of Ice and Fire is that all of Westeros is somehow nuked from orbit.
It's the only way to be sure.
Agreed. It's game over, man!
That is why Euron is the best
….. yeah….. yeah, game over man. Game over!
It's the only way to be sure
Thinking about all of her supernatural powers, it makes the A Clash of Kings introduction even more interesting. I wonder if she would have felt anything if she actually drank the poison in that chapter? I can only imagine how crazy that would have played out if she drank it, didn't feel a thing, and then the maester's shock and possibly even revealing that he tried to poison her was what happened.
Yaaaay. I always look for this and I'm glad there's a new one😊
rereading Dance with Dragons and it’s explicitly stated that Melisandre is really good with reading the flames in the fire. so many people criticize her skill and say that she’s always getting things wrong. that could be what Mr. Martin is referring to by her being misunderstood.
I believe Martin wrote the Melisandre POV chapter because he wants people to understand her better.
hmmm fire wight ? first time I hear of this and it makes sense. SOIAF is such brilliant lore, tens of years later, I still hear new things.
Love these videos. I have wondered if Melisandre is something more than a fire wight. At one point Berick Dondarion says each time he comes back he loses a part of himself. I wonder if Melisandre has become something akin to a fire wight without ever having died and come back. Sort of a fire wight 2.0, something more than.
deffo one of my favourite characters
Thank you! Excellent video
This was easily one of the most interesting and intriguing characters and the actress was amazing in this role. I did not read the book, so don't know how close she was the written character.
Excellent analysis in all aspects.
The night is dark and full of terrors.
Great video as always
I just got to the part in season 8 of GoT where she dies, and I have so many questions... is that how it happened in the book? What is the significance of the necklace? It seems to give her the young appearance to hide her old hag form.
She was awarded the MVP trophy for the battle of Winterfell.
I wish there was more than one POV chapter!!
Melisandre is a great character, and I'm so glad we got that POV chapter of her's, or else we would not even understand who she really is as a character. She was ringing the alarm bells about the "Great Other" or whatever you want to call the force behind the Others far earlier than anybody else. But Maester Aemon is correct in pointing out that some of her actions are leading humanity further into darkness and ignorance. Giving Stannis a false "Lightbringer" (an empty glamor, not the genuine artifact) has done nothing but cause confusion about Azor Ahai, for example.
I get the impression that she is so distracted by wanting to "win" at all costs, that she is blinding herself to the very real damage she is doing. Doing the wrong things for the right reason, so to speak.
I just remember her saying she had a role to play in the war. And she did! For every bad thing she did, she did ultimately try to help when winterfell was under attack. And in the end, she took off her necklace and became ash that blew into the wind
The next books are so off schedule I wonder if they will ever appear. Martin isn't the only one but I do hope they are worth the wait.
Shireen. Never forgiven!
Great video, thank you!
Love Melisandre. Thank you for this focus on this amazing character.
I think she is a true believer, her faith is deep. Being a heretic does not change that. She was brought up in the faith but at some point "went to college" at ShadowBinder U in beautiful Ashai by the Shadow, where so many changes happen..
Y does the auto-generated subtitles don't work? Can someone please help with the subtitles?
She's one of my favourite characters in the show and the books. Mysterious yet motivated and seeking the best of humanity even if it means to hurt the few to save the many.
It makes me think of that old poem about the end of the world by Frost. Its possble both Ice and Fire are trying to bring ruin in their own ways.
"Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice."
Perhaps incidentally, but dark blood tends to be old blood. Sure, she’s a shadow binder and all, but she’s also no spring chicken. Her blood is old. Could be another reason why it’s so black when it comes forth.
If they did more than 10 seasons like George wanted, we might’ve gotten a flashback to her being sold as a slave when she was young.
One thing I've always found curious about Melisandre is: why Stannis? Granted, it has been a bit since I re-read the books so I don't remember if there's anywhere where she explains why she came to believe he was Azor Ahai, but I don't think so. How did the two of them even meet anyway?
She’s one of the best characters in the series.
If George ever gets on with finishing the series I think she will play a large role
She always seems to be cursed by her magic. It burns her and hurts her and threatens to consume her. She is also constantly fearful of being somehow found out. She adds potions and powders to make tricks to her spells. She worries about her appearance incase how she looks makes her vulnerable. In all these details, i get the impression that she is being forced into a role, and then left to sink or swim. Someone (god, mortal, other) trapped her in a bargain, and now she is their champion, and can have no rest until she's paid her debt.
Additional thoughts: I suspect M was a slave in Valyria before the doom. Her specific association with (possession by?) fire, implied longevity & all-but-confirmed backstory as a slave lead me there. We know Valyria was built & sustained by both fire & blood magic, & M practices both combined as Valyrians did.
That’s about as far as I get with that. Perhaps she learned from Valyrian mages (owned by one?), perhaps the god she thinks is R’hllor is actually some old Valyrian god, because I too suspect she’s not actually serving the god she thinks she’s serving, but that’s about as far as I get.