Oh Man, you've outdone youself again in explaning how the T.50 rear diffuser, rear wing and fan control system work in harmony to create progressive downforce ground effects. Really learned allot here. Thank you. Gorden said, they learned allot from the T.50 with the fan off, and used that to optimise the T.33 with only a front/rear diffusers and ducts to create its passive boundary layer ground-effect aerodynamic, without the need for complex aero body devices. Well at least that's what Gorden says in his media burble. In the Carfection interview, Gorden said, "The front has really big diffusers in the front wheel arches, that make 2/3 of the front downforce". He elaborates less thought where the rear diffuser starts and its gradiant.
I cannot wait to see it on the track at speed. Listening to Gordon Murray talk about this project, you come away thinking that this is the most thoroughly thought car, with every detail and trade off in its packaging thought through it terms of its total net benefit. The last time I felt this way about a car design was with Koenigsegg Jesko, which is nearly entirely made from in house, or, spec components that are designed and manufactured as part of the end use packaging and how they can further maximize it function. Murray and Koenigsegg are the fine watchmakers of the automotive world.
Great video once again B Sport. For a car and motorsport interested engineer like me this is very interesting. Lets hope for an entry in WEC and Le Mans in the future, even if that is unlikely.
B Sport - another great video, many thanks. The details and analysis create a huge amount of insight (for me) into the technology and highlight how the small, "invisible" elements have such an impact. The mix of data/ calcs and visuals is ideal for the non engineer like me!
The shape of the rear wing reminds me of the horizontal stabilisers in "T-tail" aeroplane designs. Obviously does the opposite job but its a very large surface area
Hey mate thanks for another great video! You should do an updated video on the Glickenhaus 007. Their aero has some differences from the last renderings, for example the rear wing is wider but there are fins on top of the rear fenders where the rear wing end plates would have been with the old style wing and it would be great to know if these are functional 😄
I like B better than Kyle. Always feel like Kyle is kinda talking down, not sure why but thats what it seems like. And yeah we get it, he was an f1 engineer... Because we are reminded a dozen times each video.
Delta wings produce more suction in the centre like spoon wings because of the longer chord but they stay straight and don't "waste" downforce by generating side force. You can check my video about spoon wings
I read a comment earlier that stated the downforce created by a concave diffuser is 'different' than convex, and can actually be quite dangerous if you haven't driven with it before, poster claimed to be a track coach. Just thought I would ask a real engineer, great video as always
Depending on the design the main suction can be further forward, so it stabilizes the rear a bit less. There can also be a tendency to stall at higher speeds depending on how aggressive the design is. Like I said, depending on weather conditions the reattachment behaviour can change. So it can be a bit tricky but you usually try to avoid that because you kill the driver's confidence. And that slows you down more than the little bit of performance you gain from the aggressive design.
These ISG units are in the shelves of suppliers. They are developed and tested and easy to buy. Integrating this in the small diameter bell housing would be an expensive custom solution.
@@BSport320 ah that is what I assumed. Your channel is quickly becoming my favorite auto/engineering related channel on YT, the way you are able to distill complicated concepts into a concise package suitable for us laymen is much appreciated.
@@BSport320 Well, I suspect the main reason would be that since it also needs to act as a starter... being positioned in the bell housing - behind the clutch - would pose some problems ;). The car is basically completely built out of expensive custom solutions so I don't believe the ISG unit is of the shelf - and actually making the ISG work properly is one of the main engine development challenges the team is facing. Also, just to touch on the "mild hybrid" part, I don't think that's strictly the case. The ISG only puts power into the crank when it's starting the engine up. Otherwise it's permanently working as a generator to power the fan and the aircon. Only in the Vmax mode it's decoupled - so the fan runs on battery alone for about 3min max and the extra power they get is because they removed the parasitic loss of the ISG. Either way, nice video!
The valkyrie definitely looks faster, but both have very different concepts. GMA didn't say what the capacity of the 48V battery is. If this runs out, the valkyrie will be faster.
Things I don't get about the car: There don't seem to be any mirrors on the road car, but on the race car. If the road car has cameras, why not put them in the track car? The tech shouldn't weigh that much. The rear wing looks like a lot of wasted potential. It looks like the made a delta wing to compensate for the lost underside surface due to the mount losses. Why not only one central to mount and fixed end plates or just two swan necks for example? They are almost there. The exhaust situation between race and road car look very different, probably due to less restrictive emission standard for non road cars. Do you think they did a great job with it? For a car which is all about rear underbody airflow, the situation doesn't look ideal. To me the front aero seems very simple(by design?) and maybe even old fashioned. Do you have any further insights?
I was wondering about that too. I understand that they chose the mirrors. The small mirrors will be lighter that a camera system with all the cables and wiring loom. The rear wing could do a lot more, but I guess this is where they detuned it. Also because the aero efficiency of a rear wing isn't great. So you would degrade that first. The exhaust is a strange position and I think the road car position makes more sense. Gordon Murray explained that they positioned it there to improve the sound of the car because of the interaction of the two pipes. Like I said, the performance of the car relies on the 48V system. If this one performs poorly, the car is nothing special on the track anymore.
Hey, only because about two videos before this one I was looking at one with a lotus Elise in a wind tunnel, (hoping it had a good bit of rear diffuser, which it didn’t), but I noticed that the air flow went over the top of the front wing, under the wing mirror and seemed to point straight into the side scoop: ua-cam.com/video/_BnHXfvZVFo/v-deo.html thought I’d share,.
Thanks for sharing. You are right, some flow points into the side intakes. But in this session the wheels are not rotating and that changes the side flow quite a bit. You can also see here how much these mirror stalks disturb the flow.
@@BSport320 yeah, it really is a very interesting subject, I’m currently looking into top front wheel arch vents for more front down force and a redesign of the rear diffuser for rear on a s2 Exige. Cheers
is it just a tax write-off? jks ofc, but love seeing the math formulars and love that the t50 is a crash bandicoot team kart of the Brabham fan car and McLaren F1
Job interviewer: can you perform bohemian rhapsody?
Diffuser: no, but I can perform under pressure.
spoiler alert
Oh Man, you've outdone youself again in explaning how the T.50 rear diffuser, rear wing and fan control system work in harmony to create progressive downforce ground effects. Really learned allot here. Thank you.
Gorden said, they learned allot from the T.50 with the fan off, and used that to optimise the T.33 with only a front/rear diffusers and ducts to create its passive boundary layer ground-effect aerodynamic, without the need for complex aero body devices. Well at least that's what Gorden says in his media burble. In the Carfection interview, Gorden said, "The front has really big diffusers in the front wheel arches, that make 2/3 of the front downforce". He elaborates less thought where the rear diffuser starts and its gradiant.
Thanks, glad it helped!
This car has so much potential! We really need to see it on track
I cannot wait to see it on the track at speed. Listening to Gordon Murray talk about this project, you come away thinking that this is the most thoroughly thought car, with every detail and trade off in its packaging thought through it terms of its total net benefit. The last time I felt this way about a car design was with Koenigsegg Jesko, which is nearly entirely made from in house, or, spec components that are designed and manufactured as part of the end use packaging and how they can further maximize it function. Murray and Koenigsegg are the fine watchmakers of the automotive world.
Great video once again B Sport. For a car and motorsport interested engineer like me this is very interesting. Lets hope for an entry in WEC and Le Mans in the future, even if that is unlikely.
B Sport - another great video, many thanks. The details and analysis create a huge amount of insight (for me) into the technology and highlight how the small, "invisible" elements have such an impact. The mix of data/ calcs and visuals is ideal for the non engineer like me!
The shape of the rear wing reminds me of the horizontal stabilisers in "T-tail" aeroplane designs. Obviously does the opposite job but its a very large surface area
Specifically the Lockheed f104 Starfighter.
Hey mate thanks for another great video! You should do an updated video on the Glickenhaus 007. Their aero has some differences from the last renderings, for example the rear wing is wider but there are fins on top of the rear fenders where the rear wing end plates would have been with the old style wing and it would be great to know if these are functional 😄
Could you talk about your experiences working with race teams? Maybe some of your fleet of cars?
I will put it on my list
That bit about diffusor design was mighty interesting and could've and probably should've been it's own video.
Exceptional presentation.
Glad you liked it!
Your video was well researched, thank you for all the detailed info. You and @KYLE.ENGINEERS are equally as interesting to watch ;)
Wow, thank you!
I like B better than Kyle. Always feel like Kyle is kinda talking down, not sure why but thats what it seems like. And yeah we get it, he was an f1 engineer... Because we are reminded a dozen times each video.
Well made. Nice detailed video.
Glad you liked it!
Wonderful as always
The regular t50 is going to be the best drivers car ever created.
I love the new cars from him, and maybe we can see the t.50 s at Le Mans as a hypercar? that wear great!!! just remember the McLaren f1 at Le Mans!
Excellent Explanations & mathematical demonstration!!! Perfectly Billiant
Glad you liked it!
Great video. Good job
Still a little confused about delta wing. Do they give same effect as spoon wings? Is it better than a spoon wing?
Delta wings produce more suction in the centre like spoon wings because of the longer chord but they stay straight and don't "waste" downforce by generating side force. You can check my video about spoon wings
And here it is🔥🔥🔥👌🏻 Grandios wie immer!
Danke!
I read a comment earlier that stated the downforce created by a concave diffuser is 'different' than convex, and can actually be quite dangerous if you haven't driven with it before, poster claimed to be a track coach. Just thought I would ask a real engineer, great video as always
Depending on the design the main suction can be further forward, so it stabilizes the rear a bit less. There can also be a tendency to stall at higher speeds depending on how aggressive the design is. Like I said, depending on weather conditions the reattachment behaviour can change.
So it can be a bit tricky but you usually try to avoid that because you kill the driver's confidence. And that slows you down more than the little bit of performance you gain from the aggressive design.
Very nice video!
One question, why do you think the ISG is in front of the engine instead of in the bellhousing between the engine and gearbox?
packaging i would assume
Keep the proper weight distribution and move the transmission further forward, giving more room for diffuser and fan valving/ducting
These ISG units are in the shelves of suppliers. They are developed and tested and easy to buy.
Integrating this in the small diameter bell housing would be an expensive custom solution.
@@BSport320 ah that is what I assumed. Your channel is quickly becoming my favorite auto/engineering related channel on YT, the way you are able to distill complicated concepts into a concise package suitable for us laymen is much appreciated.
@@BSport320 Well, I suspect the main reason would be that since it also needs to act as a starter... being positioned in the bell housing - behind the clutch - would pose some problems ;).
The car is basically completely built out of expensive custom solutions so I don't believe the ISG unit is of the shelf - and actually making the ISG work properly is one of the main engine development challenges the team is facing.
Also, just to touch on the "mild hybrid" part, I don't think that's strictly the case. The ISG only puts power into the crank when it's starting the engine up. Otherwise it's permanently working as a generator to power the fan and the aircon. Only in the Vmax mode it's decoupled - so the fan runs on battery alone for about 3min max and the extra power they get is because they removed the parasitic loss of the ISG.
Either way, nice video!
That was interesting, thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it
Which is more impressive for you? T.50 or Valkyrie? Same goes for T.50s and Valkyrie AMR Pro
I would buy t.50 and rent Valkyrie.
valq is more like 918, t50 is more like stratos
The Valkyrie will be faster. The T.50/S would be my choice for fun
The valkyrie definitely looks faster, but both have very different concepts. GMA didn't say what the capacity of the 48V battery is. If this runs out, the valkyrie will be faster.
Completely different missions.
simply the best
"...makes driver loose confidence"
_shows Vettel's car_
Why must you hurt me this way?
Things I don't get about the car:
There don't seem to be any mirrors on the road car, but on the race car. If the road car has cameras, why not put them in the track car? The tech shouldn't weigh that much.
The rear wing looks like a lot of wasted potential. It looks like the made a delta wing to compensate for the lost underside surface due to the mount losses. Why not only one central to mount and fixed end plates or just two swan necks for example? They are almost there.
The exhaust situation between race and road car look very different, probably due to less restrictive emission standard for non road cars. Do you think they did a great job with it? For a car which is all about rear underbody airflow, the situation doesn't look ideal.
To me the front aero seems very simple(by design?) and maybe even old fashioned. Do you have any further insights?
I was wondering about that too.
I understand that they chose the mirrors. The small mirrors will be lighter that a camera system with all the cables and wiring loom.
The rear wing could do a lot more, but I guess this is where they detuned it. Also because the aero efficiency of a rear wing isn't great. So you would degrade that first.
The exhaust is a strange position and I think the road car position makes more sense. Gordon Murray explained that they positioned it there to improve the sound of the car because of the interaction of the two pipes.
Like I said, the performance of the car relies on the 48V system. If this one performs poorly, the car is nothing special on the track anymore.
Thank you!
You're welcome!
Hey, only because about two videos before this one I was looking at one with a lotus Elise in a wind tunnel, (hoping it had a good bit of rear diffuser, which it didn’t), but I noticed that the air flow went over the top of the front wing, under the wing mirror and seemed to point straight into the side scoop: ua-cam.com/video/_BnHXfvZVFo/v-deo.html thought I’d share,.
Thanks for sharing. You are right, some flow points into the side intakes. But in this session the wheels are not rotating and that changes the side flow quite a bit. You can also see here how much these mirror stalks disturb the flow.
@@BSport320 yeah, it really is a very interesting subject, I’m currently looking into top front wheel arch vents for more front down force and a redesign of the rear diffuser for rear on a s2 Exige. Cheers
is it just a tax write-off? jks ofc, but love seeing the math formulars and love that the t50 is a crash bandicoot team kart of the Brabham fan car and McLaren F1
Hybrid???
Thank you!
You're welcome!