Thank you for the info.I did not know there are L.E.D. florescent replacements..will have to source a few for the shed and kitchen. The father kept a stockpile of florescent tubes in the shed so no shortage here for now, but still time for change.
Glad you found it useful. Yes, I think they've been around for a few years, but I hadn't been aware of them until it came time to look for a replacement fluorescent tube on Screwfix and they didn't have any in stock anymore. Cheers, Chris
I replaced two double five foot tubes in my kitchen with two new battens and am very pleased indeed. Much cleaner, instant starting and, hopefully more reliable. They certainly look much nicer.
Totally agree that completely new LED battens visually look a lot better. Not too much of a worry for the garage, though may end up fitting a couple in the end, as some of my remaining fluorescent fittings are getting quite long in the tooth. Cheers, Chris
I also wasn't aware you could change fluor. for LED....thanks for that, Dave...and thanks to all the Comments pointing out good gen on these fittings. Comment@raydavison has a major point...DON'T... that's DON'T buy fittings with onboard LED's....get loose LED's. My onboard fitting failed after 3 years; whole thing has to go; abominable design.
MMMMM thanks for showing us these tubes Dave ,i didn't realize L E D s were just a straight swap ,i thought you had to buy the units complete , i will be swapping mine out now ,cheers . Greetings from Wales .
I know what you mean. I've still got 4 single fittings with fluorescents in them, but being a tight wad, I'm only going to replace them when they finally give up the ghost ... Cheers, Chris
Hi. You are correct in saying that your eyes are playing tricks. As the CCT of the LEDs are 4000k, you rods and cones in your eyes react better to whiter light, therefore we see better with led lighting after 4k to 6k. Not worth getting leds that have a cct greater than 6k as the light starts to turn blue in the colour spectrum. It is the same in summer months when the clocks change out of winter in the UK, as we fell more energetic in lighter months than we do in winter months...,..Phew!
Thanks - didn't know about that, though probably should have, considering one of my daughters is an optometrist 🤣 Anything that makes me feel more energetic in the winter is a good thing...!! 🤣🤣
The old tubes were non-directional. You seem to be saying that the new ones have an 'up' and a 'down'. Therefore, properly fitted, the proportion of the LED pointing downwards should be higher.
Exactly. I agree it's marginal ... 6 to 10% based on my, admittedly limited, testing ... but there is a difference. I haven't taken one of these tubes apart, but from what I can see, they are essentially just a ribbon string of LEDs, stuck to the inner surface of the tube. Cheers, Chris
Have a look at Philips CorePro LED tube Universal ,there a whole family of them,some are available in 4000K & 6500K versions, they work with Electro Magnetic ballasts or HF Electronic ballasts. But, looking at your fittings would have replaced them with new LED batten.
Thanks for that. It's certainly an advantage that they operate with either type of ballast. The twin fitting that I replaced the tubes in isn't actually that old (maybe 5 to 6 years) so still plenty of life in it 😊 The other two singles (I didn't show) are a lot older, so I'll probably replace them with new LED battens once I run out of fluorescents to use up. Cheers
Two problems with your light metering procedure: a) you should have taken a light measurement with the lights off to get a measure of the daylight contribution b) a proper light meter has specific settings for tungsten, fluorescent and led lights as they have different spectral distributions and the single sensor has to use a different calibration for each. Further to this, are you replacing tubes of the same power rating as the LED lamps? The other thing with fluorescents is that they take around 200 hours to 'burn in' and then they have an operational life of around 5000 hours before the performance starts to fall off. I used to look after the lights in a retail store and we used to relamp the store every two years and you could really see the difference.
Hi and thanks for the feedback. I did take take the 'lights off' readings when I was experimenting with the position of the LED strip but forgot to do those for the main test 🤦♂️ For sure, I totally agree that using an app on the phone is nothing like using a calibrated light meter, but I was only aiming for broad brush comparisons. Regarding power ratings, the fluorescents I was replacing were 58W, with a claimed brightness of 5200 lumens each, giving a theoretical total of 10,400 for the pair. Compared to that, the new LED versions were only 3300 lumens each, giving 6,600 in total, but they were the highest that were readily available. So my layman's expectations that the LEDs would be brighter (without having looked at the specs for the fluorescents beforehand) was clearly unreasonable, but I guess one of the points I was trying to get over was that for most people(?), they'd probably just waltz into Screwfix or similar and get what they thought was a 'like-for-like' replacement, but which in fact is significantly less bright than a new fluorescent would have been (if you could get hold of one). But it's obviously less so, once the fluorescents have be used for quite a while - I'd guess the ones I swapped had been there for 5 to 7 years maybe (and still have life in them), but I have no idea how many hours that would correspond to. All very interesting stuff once you dig into it. Cheers, Chris👍
I recently saw a breakdown of all household electrical items and how much power they actually consume. I saw that LED's actually over time cost more. Switched on for a short time not a problem but for hours on end the power companies make more money. I cannot be the only person that has changed out more "long life" modern lamps than they ever did with the old filament lamps. All that nonsense of 60 watts equivalent and you need to get a head torch on to see what you are doing !!! There is no way on planet earth electricity companies are ever going to let the public have something that lasts forever and costs nothing. i.e. cars that last 50 years and run on fresh air. My wife had LED strip lights installed under the kitchen cabinets of which 1 strip died and I have replaced 3 transformers.
I'm certainly sceptical about the claimed lifetime for LED bulbs of various forms ... I've swapped more 'LED Candle' bulbs than I've had hot dinners ... but I think the problem lies in the fact that they're all churned out in China where (not always but a lot of the time) they use the cheapest components they can. Having said that, I have found an LED GU10 which works very well for us, as it has an above average brightness (660lm / 5.7W) so I don't need the head torch anymore 🤣. www.toolstation.com/integral-led-classic-gu10-dimmable-lamp/p36746 if you're interested. How you track lifetime though, beyond timing when you switch on and off, is the problem - but life's too short for all of that ... Cheers, Chris
Fitted 19 LED gu10 spots in our kitchen and utility 11 years ago. Have only had to replace 3 lamps in that time. Power consumption is a fraction of the old lamps that came with the fittings. Only disadvantage is the kitchen gets cold in the winter! All the lamps are Screwfix own brand. I fitted dimmable LED lamps in our daughter’s bedroom ten years ago. No failures yet, touch wood.
LED downlighters 8 off have all gone yellow and two have packed ip. Back in the day they were very expensive and now i've had to replace them all, not that cheap even now. I wonder about the supposed savings.
There is a huge difference in the quality of light fittings on sale. For once, Screwfix LAP LED's are pretty well respected (as are IKEA). I can't say the same for the rest of the LAP wiring accessories as my phone experience of those is that they are junk. I've got Excite LED battens (from City Electrical Factors) under my kitchen units and they've been in for about eight years now. Changing lighting without doing the work to ascertain the light distribution never gives a good result. Luminairs from reputable manufacturers have polar graphs showing the light distribution (and intensity) around the fitting at various distances. If you use this against your floor plan, knowing the height at which you're installing them, you'll get an idea of the incident light levels at work surfaces, etc. As for a lower wattage LED consuming more power than a old tungsten or fluorescent of a higher wattage that is obviously wrong. Power is power. The number to be looking at the Lumens/Watt. And old school lamp bulb was around 1 L/W, a fluorescent (high frequency electronic ballast type) around 100 L/W, a SOx lamp (old style orange street lights) was around 100-150 L/W. LED efficiency depends a lot on the technology used to drive them. Cheap LED lamps use a series capacitor to act as a voltage dropper, more expensive ones use proper, high efficiency driver circuits. Generally, a good quality LED should be achieving around the 100 L/W figure. Like any 'new' technology there's a lot of failed attempts out there. Some of the earliest lamps I was asked to change consisted if nothing more than a bunch of 5mm LEDs, wired in series and stuffed into a lamp base. There was no cooling and their life was short.
The life of most Most LED's is massively exaggerated and their quality varies enormously as does their light output (As you have found in this experiment). It's vital to check the light output is suitable for your needs as two LED's with the same power rating can have light output that varies as much as 50%. Fluorescent tubes will outlast LED's by many years, possibly even decades, the ones in my garage have been in for 35 years. And don't install light fittings with onboard LED's (As opposed to using loose LED bulbs) as when the LED's die - which they inevitably will far sooner than you expect - you will require a new fitting to be installed (With possibly a bill from an electrician too) not just a change of bulb
If your fittings have power factor correcting capacitors and you don't remove them they will NOT get any power saving. I bought dozens of similar tubes from TLC and several months later measured their consumption and found it was no lower. Challenging the claims on their web site TLC (after a bit of wrangling) sent their expert to my workshop and he confirmed my findings. It then took several emails to get their web site changed to reflect this issue which eventually they did.
Interesting! I mainly bought these down to the fact that Screwfix didn't have any fluorescents and I thought they were worth a try, rather than specifically on the energy consumption. Cheers, Chris
I'm afraid I disagree - it depends on your circumstances. Fine if you're comfortable doing a bit of electrical work yourself (done plenty of it myself), but if you have to pay a sparky to fit a new batten, you're talking anywhere from £50 to £100+, plus the cost of the batten (min. £40 to get 6000+ lumens based on Screwfix today). If you're unsure whether it will be suitable for your existing fitting, fine, then take advice. But each to their own. Cheers
@handyman-at-home While, to some extent, I agree. Manufacturers won't continue to make LED tubes when LED fittings are ready available. I used to work in the trade. Bite the bullet and replace your fitting
@@dinmorejunctionmodelrailway Its no different to one of the newer counterparts failing since you have to get a whole new unit as they are non serviceable and for most people it mean getting an electrician in to basically change a bulb. Not to mention the environmental consequences. This is more the way forward imho.
@jsouto77 100% there is. Fluorescent fitting is date by design, and so will the LED replacement tubes. Plus, an LED fitting will offer a higher lumens. It isn't my money that will be wasted
@@dinmorejunctionmodelrailway Why is it?...It's a body that you fit a bulb into. just like every other build that was replaced with LED around the house. I make my own lighting from led strips and I can achieve Lumens parity with these LED Battens in a far more elegant and sustainable way.
I'd be concerned buying lighting from Screwfix. Everything i ever got from them broke within 3 years. Expensive when its a whole commercial unit full of led ceiling panels, or apartments with downlights. Having to redo a whole job every few years adds up....and trashes your reputation
The main thing I've had a problem with is door locks. Had to return a couple because in one case it'd been badly assembled, and the other was missing a couple of parts. (I suspect what happens is that people return stuff that get's put back into stock without anyone checking it first). The one thing I will say is that I've never had a problem getting a refund or exchange. Cheers
Very useful,didn’t know there were LED replacements available…thanks for the info 👍
Thanks. Neither did I 😊
Thank you for the info.I did not know there are L.E.D. florescent replacements..will have to source a few for the shed and kitchen. The father kept a stockpile of florescent tubes in the shed so no shortage here for now, but still time for change.
Glad you found it useful. Yes, I think they've been around for a few years, but I hadn't been aware of them until it came time to look for a replacement fluorescent tube on Screwfix and they didn't have any in stock anymore. Cheers, Chris
I replaced two double five foot tubes in my kitchen with two new battens and am very pleased indeed. Much cleaner, instant starting and, hopefully more reliable. They certainly look much nicer.
Totally agree that completely new LED battens visually look a lot better. Not too much of a worry for the garage, though may end up fitting a couple in the end, as some of my remaining fluorescent fittings are getting quite long in the tooth. Cheers, Chris
I’ve done the same in the garage. The new battens are excellent and were easy to fix
I also wasn't aware you could change fluor. for LED....thanks for that, Dave...and thanks to all the Comments pointing out good gen on these fittings. Comment@raydavison has a major point...DON'T... that's DON'T buy fittings with onboard LED's....get loose LED's. My onboard fitting failed after 3 years; whole thing has to go; abominable design.
Interesting video and assessment, thanks.
Thanks for taking the time. Regards
MMMMM thanks for showing us these tubes Dave ,i didn't realize L E D s were just a straight swap ,i thought you had to buy the units complete , i will be swapping mine out now ,cheers . Greetings from Wales .
Glad you found it useful. Chris
Fit these in my garage many years ago. I was sick of the fluorescent tubes, by the time they fired up I'd grabbed what I wanted and left.
I know what you mean. I've still got 4 single fittings with fluorescents in them, but being a tight wad, I'm only going to replace them when they finally give up the ghost ... Cheers, Chris
@@cypeman8037 I fitted electronic starters, which seemed to speed things up a bit.
Hi. You are correct in saying that your eyes are playing tricks. As the CCT of the LEDs are 4000k, you rods and cones in your eyes react better to whiter light, therefore we see better with led lighting after 4k to 6k. Not worth getting leds that have a cct greater than 6k as the light starts to turn blue in the colour spectrum. It is the same in summer months when the clocks change out of winter in the UK, as we fell more energetic in lighter months than we do in winter months...,..Phew!
Thanks - didn't know about that, though probably should have, considering one of my daughters is an optometrist 🤣 Anything that makes me feel more energetic in the winter is a good thing...!! 🤣🤣
The old tubes were non-directional. You seem to be saying that the new ones have an 'up' and a 'down'. Therefore, properly fitted, the proportion of the LED pointing downwards should be higher.
Exactly. I agree it's marginal ... 6 to 10% based on my, admittedly limited, testing ... but there is a difference. I haven't taken one of these tubes apart, but from what I can see, they are essentially just a ribbon string of LEDs, stuck to the inner surface of the tube. Cheers, Chris
Have a look at Philips CorePro LED tube Universal ,there a whole family of them,some are available in 4000K & 6500K versions, they work with Electro Magnetic ballasts or HF Electronic ballasts.
But, looking at your fittings would have replaced them with new LED batten.
Thanks for that. It's certainly an advantage that they operate with either type of ballast. The twin fitting that I replaced the tubes in isn't actually that old (maybe 5 to 6 years) so still plenty of life in it 😊 The other two singles (I didn't show) are a lot older, so I'll probably replace them with new LED battens once I run out of fluorescents to use up. Cheers
Very informative video
Thanks 👍
Two problems with your light metering procedure: a) you should have taken a light measurement with the lights off to get a measure of the daylight contribution b) a proper light meter has specific settings for tungsten, fluorescent and led lights as they have different spectral distributions and the single sensor has to use a different calibration for each.
Further to this, are you replacing tubes of the same power rating as the LED lamps?
The other thing with fluorescents is that they take around 200 hours to 'burn in' and then they have an operational life of around 5000 hours before the performance starts to fall off. I used to look after the lights in a retail store and we used to relamp the store every two years and you could really see the difference.
Hi and thanks for the feedback.
I did take take the 'lights off' readings when I was experimenting with the position of the LED strip but forgot to do those for the main test 🤦♂️
For sure, I totally agree that using an app on the phone is nothing like using a calibrated light meter, but I was only aiming for broad brush comparisons.
Regarding power ratings, the fluorescents I was replacing were 58W, with a claimed brightness of 5200 lumens each, giving a theoretical total of 10,400 for the pair. Compared to that, the new LED versions were only 3300 lumens each, giving 6,600 in total, but they were the highest that were readily available.
So my layman's expectations that the LEDs would be brighter (without having looked at the specs for the fluorescents beforehand) was clearly unreasonable, but I guess one of the points I was trying to get over was that for most people(?), they'd probably just waltz into Screwfix or similar and get what they thought was a 'like-for-like' replacement, but which in fact is significantly less bright than a new fluorescent would have been (if you could get hold of one).
But it's obviously less so, once the fluorescents have be used for quite a while - I'd guess the ones I swapped had been there for 5 to 7 years maybe (and still have life in them), but I have no idea how many hours that would correspond to.
All very interesting stuff once you dig into it. Cheers, Chris👍
I recently saw a breakdown of all household electrical items and how much power they actually consume. I saw that LED's actually over time cost more. Switched on for a short time not a problem but for hours on end the power companies make more money. I cannot be the only person that has changed out more "long life" modern lamps than they ever did with the old filament lamps. All that nonsense of 60 watts equivalent and you need to get a head torch on to see what you are doing !!! There is no way on planet earth electricity companies are ever going to let the public have something that lasts forever and costs nothing. i.e. cars that last 50 years and run on fresh air. My wife had LED strip lights installed under the kitchen cabinets of which 1 strip died and I have replaced 3 transformers.
I'm certainly sceptical about the claimed lifetime for LED bulbs of various forms ... I've swapped more 'LED Candle' bulbs than I've had hot dinners ... but I think the problem lies in the fact that they're all churned out in China where (not always but a lot of the time) they use the cheapest components they can. Having said that, I have found an LED GU10 which works very well for us, as it has an above average brightness (660lm / 5.7W) so I don't need the head torch anymore 🤣. www.toolstation.com/integral-led-classic-gu10-dimmable-lamp/p36746 if you're interested. How you track lifetime though, beyond timing when you switch on and off, is the problem - but life's too short for all of that ...
Cheers, Chris
Fitted 19 LED gu10 spots in our kitchen and utility 11 years ago. Have only had to replace 3 lamps in that time. Power consumption is a fraction of the old lamps that came with the fittings. Only disadvantage is the kitchen gets cold in the winter! All the lamps are Screwfix own brand. I fitted dimmable LED lamps
in our daughter’s bedroom ten years ago. No failures yet, touch wood.
Led bulbs and lights were touted as long lasting found is bull+++
LED downlighters 8 off have all gone yellow and two have packed ip. Back in the day they were very expensive and now i've had to replace them all, not that cheap even now. I wonder about the supposed savings.
There is a huge difference in the quality of light fittings on sale. For once, Screwfix LAP LED's are pretty well respected (as are IKEA). I can't say the same for the rest of the LAP wiring accessories as my phone experience of those is that they are junk.
I've got Excite LED battens (from City Electrical Factors) under my kitchen units and they've been in for about eight years now.
Changing lighting without doing the work to ascertain the light distribution never gives a good result. Luminairs from reputable manufacturers have polar graphs showing the light distribution (and intensity) around the fitting at various distances. If you use this against your floor plan, knowing the height at which you're installing them, you'll get an idea of the incident light levels at work surfaces, etc.
As for a lower wattage LED consuming more power than a old tungsten or fluorescent of a higher wattage that is obviously wrong. Power is power. The number to be looking at the Lumens/Watt. And old school lamp bulb was around 1 L/W, a fluorescent (high frequency electronic ballast type) around 100 L/W, a SOx lamp (old style orange street lights) was around 100-150 L/W. LED efficiency depends a lot on the technology used to drive them. Cheap LED lamps use a series capacitor to act as a voltage dropper, more expensive ones use proper, high efficiency driver circuits. Generally, a good quality LED should be achieving around the 100 L/W figure.
Like any 'new' technology there's a lot of failed attempts out there. Some of the earliest lamps I was asked to change consisted if nothing more than a bunch of 5mm LEDs, wired in series and stuffed into a lamp base. There was no cooling and their life was short.
The life of most Most LED's is massively exaggerated and their quality varies enormously as does their light output (As you have found in this experiment). It's vital to check the light output is suitable for your needs as two LED's with the same power rating can have light output that varies as much as 50%. Fluorescent tubes will outlast LED's by many years, possibly even decades, the ones in my garage have been in for 35 years. And don't install light fittings with onboard LED's (As opposed to using loose LED bulbs) as when the LED's die - which they inevitably will far sooner than you expect - you will require a new fitting to be installed (With possibly a bill from an electrician too) not just a change of bulb
Luckily I picked up a stock of fluorescent tubes from a diy store who were giving them away for free.
Nice one 👍
If your fittings have power factor correcting capacitors and you don't remove them they will NOT get any power saving. I bought dozens of similar tubes from TLC and several months later measured their consumption and found it was no lower. Challenging the claims on their web site TLC (after a bit of wrangling) sent their expert to my workshop and he confirmed my findings. It then took several emails to get their web site changed to reflect this issue which eventually they did.
Interesting! I mainly bought these down to the fact that Screwfix didn't have any fluorescents and I thought they were worth a try, rather than specifically on the energy consumption. Cheers, Chris
City electrical have a limited stock of old style tubes
Worth knowing. Thanks for the heads up.
Madness. Replace the fitting with an LED one, and then you know it will work.
I'm afraid I disagree - it depends on your circumstances. Fine if you're comfortable doing a bit of electrical work yourself (done plenty of it myself), but if you have to pay a sparky to fit a new batten, you're talking anywhere from £50 to £100+, plus the cost of the batten (min. £40 to get 6000+ lumens based on Screwfix today). If you're unsure whether it will be suitable for your existing fitting, fine, then take advice. But each to their own. Cheers
@handyman-at-home While, to some extent, I agree. Manufacturers won't continue to make LED tubes when LED fittings are ready available. I used to work in the trade. Bite the bullet and replace your fitting
@@dinmorejunctionmodelrailway Its no different to one of the newer counterparts failing since you have to get a whole new unit as they are non serviceable and for most people it mean getting an electrician in to basically change a bulb. Not to mention the environmental consequences.
This is more the way forward imho.
@jsouto77 100% there is. Fluorescent fitting is date by design, and so will the LED replacement tubes. Plus, an LED fitting will offer a higher lumens. It isn't my money that will be wasted
@@dinmorejunctionmodelrailway Why is it?...It's a body that you fit a bulb into. just like every other build that was replaced with LED around the house. I make my own lighting from led strips and I can achieve Lumens parity with these LED Battens in a far more elegant and sustainable way.
Omg nearly 18 minutes to change 2 LED tubes. Lol
😂😂😂
I'd be concerned buying lighting from Screwfix.
Everything i ever got from them broke within 3 years. Expensive when its a whole commercial unit full of led ceiling panels, or apartments with downlights.
Having to redo a whole job every few years adds up....and trashes your reputation
The main thing I've had a problem with is door locks. Had to return a couple because in one case it'd been badly assembled, and the other was missing a couple of parts. (I suspect what happens is that people return stuff that get's put back into stock without anyone checking it first). The one thing I will say is that I've never had a problem getting a refund or exchange. Cheers