In Portal’s developer commentary, they talked about how they wanted to design a level where they had to drag the same weighted cube through the entire level to beat it. However, during play testing, they noticed that players kept leaving the cube behind after each part of the chamber and getting stuck. So to combat this, they stuck a heart on the cube, called it a companion, and gave GLaDOS new dialogue referencing it. Sometimes that’s all you need to get your player to care about an inanimate object.
I know! I always think about if he times his intro to make the title card "bum" in the most aesthetic way or if the title card is just an afterthought.
Yeah, right on beat. It's so satisfying. Another thing amazing is the way the dots in the background seem to be a perfect square grid, yet also feels like it's on a curved surface.
If you were to keep some platforming (non-puzzle) stages in your game, maybe you could clearly indicate them? I'm thinking something like some alarm lights/horns going on in the background, conveying a sense of urgency (like an escape sequence) so the player knows "ok this is a fast section, not a slow thinking puzzle". Just a thought!
I think a simple color pallete/background change can help. Considering the red/blue idea from the magnets, you can make the action-y levels red, and the thinky puzzles blue. Additionally, he can exagerate and make a title like: "EXTRA LEVEL: Reach the end in X time" something that literally indicates "This is NOT a puzzle level"
"It can be done, but I'm not Valve, I'm Mark" is spot on when it comes to solo gamedev. So many ideas, so many possibilities, so much pressure on oneself because of course we still tend to compare our stuff to works of whole teams. If someone knows an antidote to this, please tell me.
One possible "solution" would be to get some people to help you. And obviously the reason "solution" is in quotation marks is because if you did that, it would no longer be solo game dev
It can help to consider the other side of the coin. In medium/large game productions you of course also have to cut, simplify, prioritize everything. There are very few situations where you can simply "make what you want". Also in larger teams you need more coordination, communication and generally have to facilitate everything. Stuff needs to be approved, aligned and evaluated against overarching business goals. I can promise you that developers at Valve or Blizzard often realize that there are things they cannot do because "we are Blizzard not some independent game studio or solo developer".
I love this series, way to put yourself out there and completely own it. You're using your platform to improve at making games at a rapid pace and I think that's pretty rad, but people usually don't do that because of the emotional toil of internet feedback. Being able to withstand that is super impressive Also when it comes to marrying action and puzzles, the problem is just that the levels visually look similar, there's no distinguishing language! As long as you visually indicate that it's an action level or a puzzle level, people will get it. The best example I can think of is Inside, the action sequences tend to zoom the camera out, create tension with things in the background, and create some sort of obvious indication of the challenge. Puzzle segments zoom in, the environment gets very quiet and still, and there's no time pressure. It's tough, but totally possible, and you don't have to be nearly as subtle as Inside is, you can actually just tell the player what type of level it is. The final talking point is a bit dangerous I think. People are giving you feedback based on things they have played, not necessarily what is best or most interesting. The magnet needs personality, because theyve mostly played games like you mentioned with Cappy or whatever. The magnet needs to be more central, because a lot of OTHER indie games are extremely focused on one mechanic like that. This doesn't necessarily mean the game will be better if you copy those aspects. Adding a face and dialogue to the magnet could really easily just feel annoying, especially if you're only doing it because some people in the discord said it might be cool. If you're going to add a character to your game, you should probably have a really strong motivation to do so, a story you want to tell or a facsimile of a social experience you want to portray. If you don't have vision for a character, you're just going to make a bad character. As far as hyper fixating on the magnet goes, this could backfire by making the game overall too shallow or obvious. Without a good number of secondary mechanics, a primary mechanic can't shine. I think this is better advice than the character one, focusing more on the magnet will PROBABLY make your game better. But don't take the advice too literally. Make sure you're fleshing out everything that could be useful or interesting.
Thanks! Sometimes the onslaught of feedback can be a little tough, and it's hard to show myself making mistakes, but I think it's worth it to show a proper, untarnished view of making a first game.
Feedback can be overwhelming, especially when you get conflicting opinions. There definitely comes a point where you have to decide "This is what I'm going to do" and stick to your guns on something.
This guy gets it. The thing about feedback often is that the things people say aren't just able to be taken literally. You need to do a lot of interpreting and a lot of thinking about your own goals while looking at feedback, in order to find the stuff that will truly help improve your game for the better.
@@Pichuscute My favourite example of this is from Killer Instinct. Players were asking for Jago's healing ability to be nerfed because he was too strong, but the healing ability was core to the character, so the devs decided to investigate and see why Jago was so unpopular. They realised he had no bad matchups, making him feel a lot stronger in competitive play, so they nerfed one of his attacks so that he had to use more risky options. People stopped complaining about his healing after that.
Regarding the issue with the magnet not feeling like the “star’ mechanic of the game I was reminded of the Mario Odyssey video you made. Not only did they give cappie a personality, they took away that ability during a section of the game, forcing the player to confront how accustomed they’d become to using the cap or magnet in your case to solve problems. This could be an elegant solution to hold on to some of the level ideas you had that didn’t utilize the magnet while making a player miss the convenience of the magnet and the magnet itself. Even without a personality for the magnet, the player would form an attachment to its utility perhaps. Good luck, very fun video!
I feel like the main reason behind this issue is the fact that the magnet can be destroyed and that a few of the solutions require the magnet to be left behind in the previous level. The fact that a mario pipe just replaces it, that just makes it feel like an inanimate object like a spring from mario maker.
I've seen someone point this out before regarding The Last of Us, too. That there's a period of time where you have to play as Joel alone without Ellie, which makes the player realize just how much they've become not only funtionally but also emotionally attached to having her around.
How’s about something like an AI or something that is speaking to you through the magnets? And it needs you to plug it in somewhere or other. Then the magnet being completely replaceable could be explained because it’s merely a device, and the entity speaking to you is somewhere safe.
GMTK videos are regularly shown in educational and game development settings, and I've given talks, lectures, and workshops in studios around the world. When it comes to actually making stuff, though, I'm certainly the one in need of help! (This was a reply to some snarky sharky who seems to have deleted their comment)
I guess this tells us something about theory vs execution, and how game developers maje mistakes even knowing what is and isn't recommended. Even with things that seem obvious to players.
RE: making the magnet the focus, what if every puzzle room had a door at the end which would only open if you were carrying a magnet, and make it clear that it's the same magnet you're taking with you throughout the game? You could change the respawn pipe to a teleport or something, implying that when the magnet hits spikes it is teleported to the pipe, not destroyed and a new magnet is spawned in. If for some reason a magnet has to be left behind for the puzzle (say, on a button or something), make the button into some kind of slot that will transport the magnet to the next room (like a mail tube) or something. (This could be a good place to put the occasional non-magnet puzzle between the player and the magnet so they feel like they've rescued the magnet)
@@pewter_wiz this game could take so many great cues from portal if Mark wanted to, such as having a snarky overarching antagonist or yeah, making the magnet into a companion cube like thing. Even making it into a character like he suggested would probably attach much more emotion if you accidentally throw it into spikes! Could be great fun
Turning the magnet into a character could be really fun! Give it expressions when it's being flung, hitting things, and such. If it's being recalled it should be trying to "hug" the player maybe? Give it little arms like the robot so it's always reaching for what it's going to.
I was making a similar post so i'll just add to this tread instead :) Instead of a magnet how about a smaller magnetic robot that can't move on it's own, so it needs the big robot to carry it. Maybe the little arms/hands Chris mentioned could be the magnets so that would be the reason why it reaches for what it's being thrown at. Like Sang Drako said the magnet types could be powerups instead, possibly temporary or it can only have one at a time.
A recommendation for your final action point about making the game more “magnety”: Rather than making the magnet its own character separate from the player character, perhaps the magnet should be an extension of the character. I like the design of your little robot dude, but what if its shape and silhouette could convey a the feeling of being incomplete without the magnet. For example, maybe the robot has 2 arms but very clearly only one hand, and the magnet is in the shape of the other hand. That way, both the character and magnet look incomplete on their own and complete when together. And perhaps the sprite art could change when holding different types of magnets, further driving home the connection between those 2 components. For example, the magnet is a dull red and the robot is a dull copper, but when united, they become bright red and that nifty gold color with red details. Or if you pick up the blue magnet, the robot looks more silvery with blue details. Loving this series so far, good luck!
Super late to this comment & series due to there never being enough time in the day, but I think this idea is genuinely really interesting. A clear way to visually convey right away exactly what someone is getting into and expecting, in a way that also adds more character to the individual elements themselves. Two thumbs up over here.
Later on it potentially makes sense to have a bug tracker or something similar so you don't have to hear the same criticism over and over again just because people don't know that it was said already :)
you think people will read what has already been written before? I mean, that would be nice, but really a developer receives the same feedback over and over they need to basically filter it themselves
@@sandys-channel actually I don't think everyone checks this but at least some people do so. Slight improvement is better than nothing. And in case of real bugs, not just feedback it makes it easier to close duplicates.
My man, bless you. I'm sure it's an unbelievable amount of work and stress you don't need to continue making great videos, but I'll be damned if the making of this game hasn't elevated you above every other game design channel on UA-cam. Putting your money where your mouth is, and walking us all through how insanely tough the process is is a really unique and insightful glimpse into the process.
I think this episode, and the series in general, is a great illustration of the difference between game design academics and actual developers. Mark knew all of the things people complained about. He'd made GMTK videos on almost all of them: He has multiple videos on how to design a satisfying jump in a platformer, he's done an annual series on accessibility, he's talked about concepts like game feel and design language quite a bit, and that whole section about making the magnet the "core" of the game is just Design By Subtraction rephrased. He knew all of this in theory. However, putting it into practice is much, MUCH easier said than done. That's not to say his videos were useless; he himself acknowledged that he tried to "Follow the Fun" when deciding the game's genre, and he almost certainly used knowledge from his Puzzle Design video when making levels. The issue is that the skills it takes to recognize and explain good design in another person's game is completely different from the skills it takes to implement it yourself.
7:22 "But I'm not VALVE, I'm Mark" I love this sentence for how it praises both Valve and himself. He acknowledges that he CAN be compared to such a big succes and that he knows where he stands compared to it/them. I think more people could benefit from this kind of self-love and self-respect no matter what you want to make or if you just wanna be yourself without making a product, which is equally as awesome.
One element that I haven't really seen you address in these videos, but which is really crucial when it comes to game development: in this series you are making this game literally on your own. Art, level design, coding, bugfixing, the works. That's an awesome goal to set for yourself, but when it comes to game making, this may well be the hardest possible route anyone could take. There have definitely been success stories (Axiom Verge by Thomas Happ, just to name one), but it's worth remembering that even small indie games usually involve at least a few people with dedicated roles. Game dev is, usually, a team sport. So yeah, your game may well have some issues still. But not that many people out there could do what you did even with the game at an early stage like this. That's something to be proud of.
as a ux/ui designer i find this series really inspiring, it's so interesting to see how the principles of human-centered design can apply across disciplines and how you use the same process i use every day in my job to make a neat video game instead of neat websites haha
Thanks for mentioning the bit at 18:01. People tend to not realize how exhausting it is to keep hearing the same feedback constantly or having to keep answering the same questions all the time. I sometimes get complaints about being rude when answering repeat questions, which is understandable, but I'm a game developer and not a PR person, and I'm using all my mental energy on designing and making a game, so I don't have much patience left in me outside of that.
You could also work on the design language to communicate where a level is more platformy, and where it is more puzzly Like how portal goes between test chambers and corridors
Like the person's comment just below from circa 1 month ago, you can convey the terms and modes of the level in a way that alerts the user that brute force platforming is the answer, a possible answer, or the completely wrong way to go about it (though they can try at their peril). An example of this is found in the portal games (specifically portal 2, iirc, and the portal bridge builder game, specifically). In the portal bridge builder game, modeled similarly after it's predecessor in the canon portal series, you are privy to some signs that alert you to the mechanics necessary to 100% the level. The bridge builder one uses neon signs next to the level selector as well as a reminder as you are waiting for the level to load. It's possible it did so during the pause screen as well (next to the redo, level select, and quit to menu options) possibly, but it's been a while since i had that game installed. It was more or less there to instruct my li'l kiddo about patience, thinking inside and outside the box, and not having a mental breakdown or temper tantrum every time something was beyond her means (specifically asking for help when you've exhausted your options)... anyways, sorry for the rabbit hole... The signs/warnings are there on level select and again during level load because it's very important to help the user not give up when it's frustratingly obvious to them they are missing something blaringly obvious to solve the ridiculous level...something that usually makes perfect sense in hindsight...clever girl...but befuddles the brain up until completion. Said notifications are present in at least 1 of the portal games (the one where you wake up in a creepy window-wall cell akin to an episode straight out of the OG Twilight Zone tv series, which the more i think about it feels like Portal 2 themed), and possibly in the other one, as well... Apologies, it's been nearly a decade and a half since the first one came out and i played it on a computer. That said, if you find you need too share a great deal of info with your user and you cannot feed it to them while they play in an organic and natural flowing kind of way, it's a red flag that it's either overly complex, needs to be spread out across levels, or the user is on to something: it's too complex a design or UX. Some game types, and specifically, some puzzler sub-genres are too complex to be digested in the same way a simple board game like "Sorry" or similar might be explained and fall closer to Monopoly, "Game of Life" or Risk... and that's attractive to those audiences who sought out the hardest of the hard because of their unnatural love for the puzzler genre as a whole. Overall, this was a great series to binge through while thinking about how to break apart the most basics of the basics to teach my kiddo how to apply her theory in programming concepts she's learned into actual programming excercises that would be fun: via Unity. Using a game engine to help teach the basics of programming, math, physics, and other things in a limited scope has been tried before to much success, especially to inspire younger audiences to take a swing at game dev if only for understanding how great a scope the sciences, mathematics, and programming are inhabiting as well as how dependent we are upon them for everything we do. Thanks for the series, for being humble enough to share the emotional and physically/mentally stressful rollercoaster ride of attempting to correctly and more completely go from ideas that fade away to an entire MVP of a game idea, fleshed out and layed bare in front of the world to both enjoy and nitpick to death... it takes guts and it takes humility (in the best sense of both words) to do that, and not only attempt it, but to follow through and even document and share the ride with those rubbernecking their way through UA-cam videos on game dev. Thanks again and best of luck on your journey. What you have discovered in this time sometimes takes others decades to discover, let alone for it to sink in. Kudos, and I've subbed to see what comes out next.
The comment at 18:51 sums it up very well! Your skill is impressive Mark! Even though I have no ambition to develop games myself, I really like how you show viewers your journey as a game developer and the lessons you learn from it. Also massive respect how you cope with feedback and your honesty about the ups and downs in this developing journey. Keep up the good work!
About the magnet issue: IRL, magnets actually interact in interesting ways with a lot of stuff, including lasers, electrical currents, radiation, etc. I suggest researching how magnets work IRL for inspiration! Good science channels include: Cody'sLab, SciShow, Veritasium, NileRed, and many others which I am certainly missing!
I think that is an incredible idea that would be awesome to see. I particularly would love to see a solenoid in the game, which could replace those boxes that plug into the walls and transfer their charge. It could add some interesting traps to the game, where players have to choose between leaving the magnet behind to activate a solenoid or choosing what order to activate electrical devices. To top it off, it could just be a fun educational tool, teaching people the basics of electro-magnetism and how it is used in practice.
It is very strange, for he did involve lasers and magnetic fields and even hinted at electromagnetism with the plugs that store energy but not much was done with each (for good reason as it was a month-long project). If the game were to be expanded there would be plenty of space to properly introduce these elements and therefore the game would work far better even given alternating platforming segments.
16:38 You missed the opportunity to say "Make the game more 'attractive'"!!! But seriously though, this video just goes to show how important play testing and public feedback are to the development of games. As well as how important it is to admit mistakes. Very good video
As an indie game designer, I especially love this series. In my opinion, you're doing a great service to game makers by providing this sort of look at game development, using your polished video-creation skills. You're proving that knowing how to analyze games and how to make them aren't the same thing, and that knowing about something (colorblindness accessibility as an example from this video) can be easy to forget in the middle of development. Some stuff just doesn't sink into the brain the same way until you experience it yourself! Also, calling Unit Testing an airlock has me amused. :D Thank you so much for making this series, Mark!
I watched only one playthrough on the MVP, one that randomly popped up in my recommended, by some dude I never heard of before or after. One of the major complaints he had was that there weren't any way to distinguish the press-button from the hold-button. Of course, since predisposition for shortsightedness is the only visual impairment _I_ was born with, I knew there, in fact, was a way, and soon after it turned out the guy was colorblind. Which I find hilarious in a way - here's a guy that's been doing videos about accessibility in games for *years* and when it finally came down to it, he didn't even consider it. I know Mark said in the last video that accessibility options would come later, but on the other hand we're talking about picking two colors from a palette. Which just goes to show you - sometimes you're just one oversight away from being the thing you criticize.
Unfortunately it just came down to time - I very quickly needed a way to distinguish the buttons towards the end of the deadline and so went for a cheap and easy colour swap - even though I knew it wouldn't be perfect for colourblind players. Embarrassing, and not recommended - but something to fix in the future!
It's nice seeing you so exited and energetic about the game, when you talked about the 30 day game making challenge it seemed to me you were close to burning out and giving up. I hope all the feedback got your juices flowing again and gave you proper motivation for continuing this project. You got this Mark !
I think for the button issue, you could probably take from Portal and give some sort of visual connection between the button and what it's supposed to modify I also can't imagine that it would give away solutions because it's just sort of removing a step between seeing the button and finding out what the button does
"Giving the magnets a personality" My first thought here went straight to Thomas Was Alone for inspiration, where they not only all have their own personalities but interact and have character arcs
It's amazing to see your journey in this! Game design is fascinating and to apply that to a game is super commendable. Great work and dedication buddy. We all got your back.
The saddest thing about this series is, that every time an episode ends I wanna watch another one, and have to wait another month... Thanks so much for all the work you put into this! It's super entertaining and educative!
I think having the magnet as a character and giving it dialogue lines might overcome the problem of the core mechanics not being shown very well. You could give the magnet dialogue that would advise the player on what to do and give hints if they are stuck and that would fix some of the issues you're having.
I would make the magnet be part of the characters arm, you can still drop it by detaching your arm but then the player will be like "wait thats part of me, i need that" literally a "core part" of the characters existence. making the magnet itself a character seems too expected from an indie game at this point imo
Hey Mark, don’t know if you’ll see this, but this series has been a HUGE motivator for starting my own Unity project. Seeing you go through the learning process at the same time as me reminds myself that game dev is messy and imperfect, but still rewarding, and it’s been highly encouraging. Keep it up, man.
It's an enormous relief to hear that you've never made a game before. I've never made a game before, and I got into game design by watching your channel. It's a little tough thinking that everyone around you has been doing this their whole lives. It's a relief to hear someone you think is an expert is just a noob in the business too. (No offense).
This idea of magnetism is really attractive... but what if it was the opposite ? The repulsiveness of different poles might be something to latch onto.
This has been one of my favorite GMTK series, and this episode specifically was super helpful for me. I just finished a game jam and was trying to figure out how to absorb all the feedback I'm getting, and develop the game into a full release. You gave a lot of good insight to my questions in this video; thanks!
I love the way you combine the perspective of a newbie developer with an insight of experienced game journalist. Thank you, Mark, and all of you who played the game for this video!
If you wanted more feedback… making the game have its own aesthetic would be great! Having it be a nice looking game is just as important as it being nice sounding. It’s definitely a concern for the long run, not urgent, but as you didn’t mention it in the feedback you received I thought I’d put it there!
I find this very impressive and inspiring as someone who’s learning game development in school. Don’t be too hard on yourself I think you have a great idea here.
Writing this comment about 15 minutes into the video because I've been sitting here thinking about the unique position that Mark is in the entire time. This is his first game. Most people's first games are only played by friends and family, if they're lucky. Mark has a huge community giving him feedback that's not always "friends and family"-ized, in other words always positive no matter what because they love you and don't want to hurt your feelings. This is kind of a boon as well as a massive hindrance, in that there's tons of feedback to learn from but also, if he doesn't do everything to a certain standard, possibly thousands of people will be complaining to him about the poor experience. I'm not sure if I should envy his position or pity him for it. Either way, keep it up. It gets easier as you go along, I promise.
10:42 This is a really cool piece of advice! I've never really thought about a toolbox that evolves around the game rather than simply a game that evolves around the toolbox
Here's my suggestion. Have levers instead of buttons. It can show a clear indication of what state the level is in and you could also show how much time you have left as it slowly resets. Granted that might be too small for players
The whole Puzzle vs Platformer thing reminds me a lot of the struggles Drawn to Life: Two Realms faced. While previous entries in the series were strict platformers, Two Realms is a puzzle platformer, where each level requires thinking and problem-solving. Given its background, a lot of players didn't go into the game with this expectation, which hurt the experience. The game also has a problem you seem to have avoided so far, which is that in Two Realms, often I had figured out the solution, but the execution sometimes took almost 20 minutes more due to the length of the levels and the inconsistent platforming physics. That's a good one to keep in the back of your mind, I think.
As a beginner puzzle game designer myself, it's amazing to see the difference a large audience makes. So much useful feedback I could only dream of! Don't take it for granted!
Hey, Mark, love your content! I think there is an easy solution for you not having to hear the same feedback again and again next time: create a subreddit for your MVP/Demo. When people criticize something like how the character feels, instead of having the same post over and over, people will just upvote and comment the thread agreeing with the point or adding more insightful views on the same problem. "Threading" the feedback makes it way easier!
While this whole project is very impressive, I must commend your courage in deciding to ride the elevator at the end of the video. Completely unexpected and brave, and brought a huge smile to my face
The robot should be "headless" with the magnet being its head. Having a face on that magnet was cool... expressions for various actions could be fun and give it character. The idea of using your head to solve magnet puzzles speaks to the task as a player too... MAGNET HEAD!
I don’t think a lot of people realise quite how much of the creative process involves reiteration or resculpting through trial and error, no matter if you’re making games, films, writing books… whatever your outlet. But this series, and especially this video, is such a beautiful and humble demonstration of what it actually takes to make something great. We romanticise great artists and auteurs as if they can just spew genius with every breath, but the reality is they work damn hard, and go through some tough states of reckoning with their creations in order to get there. And that’s a very vulnerable state for ANYONE to put themselves in, so I’m just so blown away and grateful that you’ve chosen to do that while ALSO documenting it for the world. This is truly a fantastic and fascinating series, and well deserving of an award. Thank you
Loving this series Mark! ❤️ In regards to helping the game feel more focused on magnets, I might have two questions for you, one more interesting than the other. When you think of a magnet, what is the first thing you think of that you can use a magnet for? Sticking to metal objects obviously. We both know that. My second question is, what is the SECOND thing you think of that you can use a magnet for? I have ideas of my own but I’m going to let you find your own answer to this since this is your project. It might help you in your journey in puzzle design, mechanics, or even developing a personality for this magnet character you want to create! Can’t wait to see what the final project will be! ❤️
10:15 A game you could look to for inspiration on this "explosion of stuff" problem is N+. I felt it did a good job of just adding one thing each time the room changes.Admittedly, it is more of a platformer.
Hey Mark. Love seeing your journey through developing this game. You're so open about everything and explains your process in a way that makes me feel inspired and maybe even involved in your gamemaking. I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of this journey. Watching this, I got a few ideas for how to make your game more Magnet-y. First of all, adding a face is a great idea. I would also suggest different facial animations. It could have a thinking face for when the player stands still, and an excited face when being thrown through the air, and another face for being stuck. Maybe it even looks around when you're carrying it, as if looking for the solution itself. Another idea would be to always have the magnet at the start of a level, so that picking it up is always the first thing the player does. Maybe even some simple magnet-maneuver is required to move to the actual puzzle. Additionally, you could make it part of each puzzle that the player has to unlock the end-of-level door using the magnet, so that they bring it to the end of the level too. And yes, adding recall and polarity earlier is also a great idea to center the game more around the magnet. I would also suggest an additional visual indicator of what polarity the magnet has currently: Something on the player character or the screen or HUD being red or blue depending on the magnet's polarity. As a final idea, you could later on have a second magnetic object that you attract or repel by switching the polarity of your own magnet, moving the object rather than yourself.
You have an amazing amount of insight into how to make the best game possible. Don't be too hard on yourself. This game still looks awesome, and I will absolutely buy it as soon as it comes out.
First off i just want to say, i'm so happy for you in getting a far as you did all by yourself with this project, and wish you lots of luck in the future with this! I'm a game designer in the making myself i have hopefully a helpful tip or 2. My experience has been from trying to create / testing prototypes of my own of Board Games, a lot of fundamental things you have said in a previous video and this one still apply to both so i think perhaps some of my experience can help you as well. 1) KISS (keep it simple stupid) you mentioned having lots of things in a particular level, yes that's one part of keeping things simpler. But always adding "things" and stuff and more and more ideas isn't always a good thing. When adding all those new magnet ideas, perhaps not add as many, especially at once. OR and here is an idea that popped into my head while watching this. Instead of adding a bunch of new magnets perhaps add "upgrades" or something to your main character on the screen that lets you change how you can manipulate the magnet w/o adding complexity of another magnet. 2) "Kill Your Darlings" the basic translation is, don't be tied to a certain design or idea. Don't be afraid to let go of something that seems important to you, but just isn't working out in your game. Of course your going to have a huge attachment to every part of this game, but when your holding onto something that you need to let go can help your game way more than trying to "fix it". -Just a random guy's 2 cents.
the airlock idea is basic applied programming, almost every developer uses a tool called git, where you create "branches" of a program and merge them to the main branch when they end up good and are clear of bugs
@@crack64 yeah I'm a software dev, I use git. Only commiting to the release branch when its playable is one thing. Spending hours and hours as a solo dev trying to do the work of your testers for them is another.
Mark, I have to say: not only do I learn tons from every episode you do of this series, I'm also really invested in this being a good experience for you! It gets me so excited to see that you are really going after your dream of developing your own game, and I really want you to succeed. Not only that, I am genuinely hopeful that it is a good experience overall. So my feedback is this: whether things are going great or poorly, remember to take time to appreciate all the work you've done, and take care of yourself. Cheers!
i would have suggested something on the lines of "oh make the Platforming & Puzzle stages visually distinct" but yeah focusing on getting one Done well first is the better idea also, yeah making the Magnet a character can work, but i don't think that's what most of the feedback means, for example in Portal they don't make the Portals characters but they made them pretty obvious by being this Bright Orange light in a completely sterile white room, also the fact that you basically can't do anything BUT Portal for most of the early chambers
This is such a cool series. It really shows the process, the difficulties, the complexity, the frustration and the joy of making a game. And while I'm not a developer, I think that the topics you touch upon seem fairly universally applicable. The way you incorporate the topics to your own game that you usually discuss for other games like accessibility is really neat. Also mad respect for being able to distill all that feedback into their core elements to improve. That is a skill that only few people can boast, keep up the good work!
It does make sense to scrap the platforming levels for now - you've got enough on your plate balacing puzzles and everything else. That being said, I do like platformers that mix some puzzles in and vice-versa, so maybe they're worth bringing back much later down the line? 👀
honestly my favorite part of developing was when Mark revealed how he learned unity (for real this time) I think a tutorial video would maybe kinda possibly muddy the development log
I've really been enjoying this series. Love your regular uploads too, but this series has truly been something special. Thanks for sharing your journey, you'll be inspiring lots of other devs!
Perhaps you could solve the “more magnety” problem by having the main character BE the magnet. Perhaps he can detach his magnetic head and throw it, but has to reunite with it to finish the level.
One thing I've noticed in the puzzle games I've really enjoyed, like Portal and Unpuzzle and Gravitas (which is a bit less polished than the first two but still excellent) is that they have a theme of building on previous information. Starting with the absolute basics first, and building on that, often in a way that still empowers players who Get the idea to go through what they already know very quickly, while allowing players new to the concept to get a handle on what's expected of them. The very first level of Unpuzzle is literally just pulling two puzzle pieces apart, while by the end of the game you're rotating symbol locks and dealing with timers and have pieces that can only move in one direction, but because each of those elements were introduced gradually, usually over multiple increasingly complex levels in a row, it's not overwhelming. The lack of a timing element also makes that one easy to handle, since there's no time pressure (unless you enjoy speedrunning), you can stop and work out each stage of how to take this one big whole apart. Sort of how like I just broke up one big paragraph into multiple lines, so it's easier to read! Even if it's not the most grammatically-correct formatting I could have done for it, lol. Also, about 11:45 there - Ring of Pain is a positive example on timing. It's a roguelike that can be, as titled, very punishing, but the reset speed is virtually instantaneous and cuts out excess, so you can restart at the press of a button. Since I can go from a loss to a new game in under 30 seconds, failing or dying is more of a learning experience than a real problem, so experimenting is very rewarding and easy to do.
I agree the magnet should be a character! Specifically, it's strange how often you're leaving the magnet behind in order to solve a puzzle -- it feels like something you'd want to bring with you, rather than just respawning a new one when you need it. In Portal terms, I think it should be closer to a "companion cube" that your goal is to bring throughout the entire level and you form an attachment with (even if a small one), rather than a regular degular cube that you can throw away at any given moment.
I can think of a few platformers that do combine puzzles with reaction skills. I think Limbo and Control did that successfully in some degree. Even a game like celeste sometimes had puzzle like situations in which you'd try to get a strawberry using platforming skills and after a few fails you'd realize you should sit back a little and find a more logical solution. So I think there might still be a scenario in which you combine puzzles and platforming skills, given that you'd make sure to give a strong failure feedback to the player when try the wrong skills so that they'd know in a few tries to use the other.
I feel like those platforming levels would be fine in the game as long as the skills learned from them are used in later levels. Otherwise, they feel like they don't support the game's main purpose.
Been loving the series! Every episode gives me a lot of information on how to go about making that game I thought of, just need to get started actually prototyping it 😅 Also, I loved the little elevator exit at the end. Can’t wait for more from the channel!
If you wanna add story elements to the thing, might I recommend making it about a romance between the magnet character and the robot character? And over the course of the game as they work together they become more "attracted" to each other :P
Binging these from the start over the Christmas Interval and I'm getting so much out of them (currently at 5/12) Over and above all of the really interesting technical points I think I'm almost more enjoying your clarity of thought and personal honesty of how these learning points appear and how you reflect on them. It's really refreshing and reassuring. Thank you Mark, I hope you are having a nice break.
what if the magnet WAS the character (like it's the head) and the body is just what is moving the head around. Could limit the field of view based on the magnet field of the magnet. Maybe something on the body always points in the direction of the magnet too
It's awesome that you went this far and get so many good insights in this video, congrats! Actually after watching the video it made me think, what you were talking about is, in a nutshell all the feelings that are packed in the game dev industry now. And you showed them, raw. I never saw this, since most dev diaries are marketing videos than anything else. You should be double proud!!
IMO in more of a puzzle game you can just have a single pressure plate/button for everything, so people start by clicking it to see what it does The other way would be to have a different style or color for each action at which point the puzzle solves itself based on the button type
It is really comforting to see you going through a journey of game development so similar to my own. The series of realizations about limitations and skills required is relatable. Thank you for sharing this!! I would imagine there are moments where this has seemed difficult or scary. Thank you for pushing through that!! It helps me, with little voice in the world, feel connected and known even though it’s your journey.
Hi! The game looks fun! But tangentially to the "character nintendo-izing" thing. I won't say going into a character magnet would be my first idea. I think I need to care more about the little robot first. Then feed me some kind of lore to keep me engaged - why is the robot connected to magnets? Is the robot some kind of hero? Is there a villain or a catastrophe the robot can only solve by using his power over magnets? I can see written dialogue or even environmental storytelling being used for this. I know there is nowhere near the same budget as a game like It takes Two but that game kept me engaged through both dialogue and environments. The drive to watch the next cutscene and move the story forward (even for something as simple as wanting to see what would be the next themed area) kept me engaging with the puzzles.
One Of The Main Thing That All Game Developers must know is that criticism and failures are just a Part of our learning If u hear criticisms and Hatred for your game , dont feel bad its just a part of the game You still have space to improve yourselfs I am not sure if someone will read this comment in the heap of comments but anyway if you see this , i wish you all the best for your upcoming game 😊
@@ToriKo_ is that a genuine question? Or is it a criticism of the way they write? If it is the latter you may want to work on how to deliver criticism in a well thought out and kind manner.
Does the polarity swapping and sleep mode (which I would suggest be called "demagnetized") cycle? Because if precision matters at any point, cycling to the wrong polarity when you want to turn off the magnet could cause issues. I would suggest using the weapons cycling system from Destiny. Applied to your game, tapping would swap polarity, holding would turn the magnet off, when its off, tapping again returns you to the last polarity used and holding whilst the magnet is off swaps to the opposite of the polarity last used. Or you could have it so tapping the button from the magnet of always sends you to the red polarity and holding always sends you to the blue polarity. Complex in description, but Destiny proves its a simple and intuitive means of precisely cycling between three things on one button.
About the feedback. Welcome to the real world of game dev. If you want a piece advice how to deal with that: if it becomes too much, have someone help you remove duplicates first. It has to be someone you trust to think the same way you do (and maybe give stats). You can also write down things that you already know dont work and have that person filter out duplicates for that too. Also as a programmer? Can you imagine how many times I went "I KNOW!!!! IT FRUSTRATES ME TOO!!"? I cant even play my old games because of that either. I can present them, but playing for myself instantly conjures terrible feelings of failure about how this or that didnt go as envisioned :X.
In Portal’s developer commentary, they talked about how they wanted to design a level where they had to drag the same weighted cube through the entire level to beat it. However, during play testing, they noticed that players kept leaving the cube behind after each part of the chamber and getting stuck. So to combat this, they stuck a heart on the cube, called it a companion, and gave GLaDOS new dialogue referencing it. Sometimes that’s all you need to get your player to care about an inanimate object.
Also, the dialogs relating to the companion cube are just hilarious!
that's all I needed to have a friend for the rest of my life
@@grahamwalker2168 well, for the rest of the companion cube’s life, anyway.
@@wearethebomb42 did you not get them back?
@@grahamwalker2168 you're forced to throw the cube in an incinerator at the end of the puzzle.
I know it’s minor, but the pulsing “o” on the DEVELOPING logo never fails to make me smile
I know! I always think about if he times his intro to make the title card "bum" in the most aesthetic way or if the title card is just an afterthought.
YES! I can't help but notice it whenever the signature beat comes on!
Yeah, right on beat. It's so satisfying. Another thing amazing is the way the dots in the background seem to be a perfect square grid, yet also feels like it's on a curved surface.
Agreed. I think it might have also something to do with the smoothest intro music in history!
btw those icons are called throbbers which is hilarious
If you were to keep some platforming (non-puzzle) stages in your game, maybe you could clearly indicate them? I'm thinking something like some alarm lights/horns going on in the background, conveying a sense of urgency (like an escape sequence) so the player knows "ok this is a fast section, not a slow thinking puzzle". Just a thought!
Yeah, or change the ingame music from something casual to something that sounds urgent!
I think a simple color pallete/background change can help. Considering the red/blue idea from the magnets, you can make the action-y levels red, and the thinky puzzles blue.
Additionally, he can exagerate and make a title like: "EXTRA LEVEL: Reach the end in X time" something that literally indicates "This is NOT a puzzle level"
Was thinking the exact same thing!
Good idea! It brings to my mind the designated emmi zones in metroid dread
I was thinking maybe a power-up so that he can use the different physics set he thought of
Several videos in, I'm really impressed how well you've segued into these mostly-filmed videos. As watchable and entertaining as ever!
These are such great and fun to watch insights about the game dev process, I'm so glad to be learning about all this
Jacob is so classy
Yes, thank you, very wise Mr. Geller, so smart, does anyone else think his beard looks painted on?
This guy is awesome (H)
Congrats on the nomination! 😍
What is your favorite Unity game, and why is it Escape From Tarkov?
why is there not like 500 replies?
@@m_r-ock6508 idk
@@m_r-ock6508 good question
@@m_r-ock6508 huh
"It can be done, but I'm not Valve, I'm Mark" is spot on when it comes to solo gamedev. So many ideas, so many possibilities, so much pressure on oneself because of course we still tend to compare our stuff to works of whole teams. If someone knows an antidote to this, please tell me.
But maybe, just _maybe,_ Mark can count to three.
One possible "solution" would be to get some people to help you. And obviously the reason "solution" is in quotation marks is because if you did that, it would no longer be solo game dev
It can help to consider the other side of the coin. In medium/large game productions you of course also have to cut, simplify, prioritize everything. There are very few situations where you can simply "make what you want". Also in larger teams you need more coordination, communication and generally have to facilitate everything. Stuff needs to be approved, aligned and evaluated against overarching business goals. I can promise you that developers at Valve or Blizzard often realize that there are things they cannot do because "we are Blizzard not some independent game studio or solo developer".
I love this series, way to put yourself out there and completely own it. You're using your platform to improve at making games at a rapid pace and I think that's pretty rad, but people usually don't do that because of the emotional toil of internet feedback. Being able to withstand that is super impressive
Also when it comes to marrying action and puzzles, the problem is just that the levels visually look similar, there's no distinguishing language! As long as you visually indicate that it's an action level or a puzzle level, people will get it. The best example I can think of is Inside, the action sequences tend to zoom the camera out, create tension with things in the background, and create some sort of obvious indication of the challenge. Puzzle segments zoom in, the environment gets very quiet and still, and there's no time pressure. It's tough, but totally possible, and you don't have to be nearly as subtle as Inside is, you can actually just tell the player what type of level it is.
The final talking point is a bit dangerous I think. People are giving you feedback based on things they have played, not necessarily what is best or most interesting. The magnet needs personality, because theyve mostly played games like you mentioned with Cappy or whatever. The magnet needs to be more central, because a lot of OTHER indie games are extremely focused on one mechanic like that. This doesn't necessarily mean the game will be better if you copy those aspects. Adding a face and dialogue to the magnet could really easily just feel annoying, especially if you're only doing it because some people in the discord said it might be cool. If you're going to add a character to your game, you should probably have a really strong motivation to do so, a story you want to tell or a facsimile of a social experience you want to portray. If you don't have vision for a character, you're just going to make a bad character.
As far as hyper fixating on the magnet goes, this could backfire by making the game overall too shallow or obvious. Without a good number of secondary mechanics, a primary mechanic can't shine. I think this is better advice than the character one, focusing more on the magnet will PROBABLY make your game better. But don't take the advice too literally. Make sure you're fleshing out everything that could be useful or interesting.
Thanks! Sometimes the onslaught of feedback can be a little tough, and it's hard to show myself making mistakes, but I think it's worth it to show a proper, untarnished view of making a first game.
@@GMTK I agree, when making art its always hard to listen to feedback but its all going to make you a better game designer in the end
Feedback can be overwhelming, especially when you get conflicting opinions. There definitely comes a point where you have to decide "This is what I'm going to do" and stick to your guns on something.
This guy gets it. The thing about feedback often is that the things people say aren't just able to be taken literally. You need to do a lot of interpreting and a lot of thinking about your own goals while looking at feedback, in order to find the stuff that will truly help improve your game for the better.
@@Pichuscute My favourite example of this is from Killer Instinct. Players were asking for Jago's healing ability to be nerfed because he was too strong, but the healing ability was core to the character, so the devs decided to investigate and see why Jago was so unpopular. They realised he had no bad matchups, making him feel a lot stronger in competitive play, so they nerfed one of his attacks so that he had to use more risky options. People stopped complaining about his healing after that.
Regarding the issue with the magnet not feeling like the “star’ mechanic of the game I was reminded of the Mario Odyssey video you made. Not only did they give cappie a personality, they took away that ability during a section of the game, forcing the player to confront how accustomed they’d become to using the cap or magnet in your case to solve problems. This could be an elegant solution to hold on to some of the level ideas you had that didn’t utilize the magnet while making a player miss the convenience of the magnet and the magnet itself. Even without a personality for the magnet, the player would form an attachment to its utility perhaps.
Good luck, very fun video!
Underrated comment
Nice idea
I feel like the main reason behind this issue is the fact that the magnet can be destroyed and that a few of the solutions require the magnet to be left behind in the previous level. The fact that a mario pipe just replaces it, that just makes it feel like an inanimate object like a spring from mario maker.
I've seen someone point this out before regarding The Last of Us, too. That there's a period of time where you have to play as Joel alone without Ellie, which makes the player realize just how much they've become not only funtionally but also emotionally attached to having her around.
How’s about something like an AI or something that is speaking to you through the magnets? And it needs you to plug it in somewhere or other. Then the magnet being completely replaceable could be explained because it’s merely a device, and the entity speaking to you is somewhere safe.
Love how mark is learning game design by trial by fire after educating industry professionals on game design for years
GMTK videos are regularly shown in educational and game development settings, and I've given talks, lectures, and workshops in studios around the world. When it comes to actually making stuff, though, I'm certainly the one in need of help! (This was a reply to some snarky sharky who seems to have deleted their comment)
@@GMTK fckin gamer LETS GOOOOOOOOOO U GOT THISSS
I guess this tells us something about theory vs execution, and how game developers maje mistakes even knowing what is and isn't recommended.
Even with things that seem obvious to players.
6:27 Well you don't want to listen to that guy! He has NO idea what he's talking about!
RE: making the magnet the focus, what if every puzzle room had a door at the end which would only open if you were carrying a magnet, and make it clear that it's the same magnet you're taking with you throughout the game? You could change the respawn pipe to a teleport or something, implying that when the magnet hits spikes it is teleported to the pipe, not destroyed and a new magnet is spawned in.
If for some reason a magnet has to be left behind for the puzzle (say, on a button or something), make the button into some kind of slot that will transport the magnet to the next room (like a mail tube) or something. (This could be a good place to put the occasional non-magnet puzzle between the player and the magnet so they feel like they've rescued the magnet)
Title: *UNTITLED MAGNET GAME*
Subtitle: *It Takes Two*
I love this suggestion! It's another way of adding character to the magnet, a-la Companion Cube from Portal
@@pewter_wiz this game could take so many great cues from portal if Mark wanted to, such as having a snarky overarching antagonist or yeah, making the magnet into a companion cube like thing. Even making it into a character like he suggested would probably attach much more emotion if you accidentally throw it into spikes! Could be great fun
Like Yorda in Ico. I think we needed her to open some doors.
@@yvesgomes ico is so cool
This series has been enormously helpful to me in my own game dev journey. Thanks Mark :)
Glad to hear it!
Same here. It's incredibly useful
Turning the magnet into a character could be really fun! Give it expressions when it's being flung, hitting things, and such. If it's being recalled it should be trying to "hug" the player maybe? Give it little arms like the robot so it's always reaching for what it's going to.
This is such a cool idea!
And the different versions are powerups for the little magnet!
I like this
Much better solution than giving it dialogue!
I was making a similar post so i'll just add to this tread instead :)
Instead of a magnet how about a smaller magnetic robot that can't move on it's own, so it needs the big robot to carry it.
Maybe the little arms/hands Chris mentioned could be the magnets so that would be the reason why it reaches for what it's being thrown at.
Like Sang Drako said the magnet types could be powerups instead, possibly temporary or it can only have one at a time.
A recommendation for your final action point about making the game more “magnety”:
Rather than making the magnet its own character separate from the player character, perhaps the magnet should be an extension of the character. I like the design of your little robot dude, but what if its shape and silhouette could convey a the feeling of being incomplete without the magnet. For example, maybe the robot has 2 arms but very clearly only one hand, and the magnet is in the shape of the other hand. That way, both the character and magnet look incomplete on their own and complete when together. And perhaps the sprite art could change when holding different types of magnets, further driving home the connection between those 2 components. For example, the magnet is a dull red and the robot is a dull copper, but when united, they become bright red and that nifty gold color with red details. Or if you pick up the blue magnet, the robot looks more silvery with blue details.
Loving this series so far, good luck!
Super late to this comment & series due to there never being enough time in the day, but I think this idea is genuinely really interesting. A clear way to visually convey right away exactly what someone is getting into and expecting, in a way that also adds more character to the individual elements themselves. Two thumbs up over here.
"A Jenga Tower of bugs and mistakes" is a phrase I will definitely use the next time my manager tries to sell an MVP as a finished product.
Later on it potentially makes sense to have a bug tracker or something similar so you don't have to hear the same criticism over and over again just because people don't know that it was said already :)
I was thinking the exact same thing, maybe even a comment thread or something.
18:01 for reference
you think people will read what has already been written before? I mean, that would be nice, but really a developer receives the same feedback over and over they need to basically filter it themselves
@@sandys-channel actually I don't think everyone checks this but at least some people do so. Slight improvement is better than nothing. And in case of real bugs, not just feedback it makes it easier to close duplicates.
There's a good reason all bugtrackers have "duplicate" as a standard status flag.
I love how a good puzzle game feels like a conversation with the game designer.
That was my experience playing The Witness for sure
to me all games feel that way to a degree. that's why I love them so much!
My man, bless you. I'm sure it's an unbelievable amount of work and stress you don't need to continue making great videos, but I'll be damned if the making of this game hasn't elevated you above every other game design channel on UA-cam. Putting your money where your mouth is, and walking us all through how insanely tough the process is is a really unique and insightful glimpse into the process.
I think this episode, and the series in general, is a great illustration of the difference between game design academics and actual developers.
Mark knew all of the things people complained about. He'd made GMTK videos on almost all of them: He has multiple videos on how to design a satisfying jump in a platformer, he's done an annual series on accessibility, he's talked about concepts like game feel and design language quite a bit, and that whole section about making the magnet the "core" of the game is just Design By Subtraction rephrased. He knew all of this in theory. However, putting it into practice is much, MUCH easier said than done.
That's not to say his videos were useless; he himself acknowledged that he tried to "Follow the Fun" when deciding the game's genre, and he almost certainly used knowledge from his Puzzle Design video when making levels. The issue is that the skills it takes to recognize and explain good design in another person's game is completely different from the skills it takes to implement it yourself.
7:22
"But I'm not VALVE, I'm Mark"
I love this sentence for how it praises both Valve and himself. He acknowledges that he CAN be compared to such a big succes and that he knows where he stands compared to it/them. I think more people could benefit from this kind of self-love and self-respect no matter what you want to make or if you just wanna be yourself without making a product, which is equally as awesome.
plus it references "NO I'M PATRICK"
One element that I haven't really seen you address in these videos, but which is really crucial when it comes to game development: in this series you are making this game literally on your own. Art, level design, coding, bugfixing, the works.
That's an awesome goal to set for yourself, but when it comes to game making, this may well be the hardest possible route anyone could take. There have definitely been success stories (Axiom Verge by Thomas Happ, just to name one), but it's worth remembering that even small indie games usually involve at least a few people with dedicated roles. Game dev is, usually, a team sport.
So yeah, your game may well have some issues still. But not that many people out there could do what you did even with the game at an early stage like this. That's something to be proud of.
as a ux/ui designer i find this series really inspiring, it's so interesting to see how the principles of human-centered design can apply across disciplines and how you use the same process i use every day in my job to make a neat video game instead of neat websites haha
Thanks for mentioning the bit at 18:01. People tend to not realize how exhausting it is to keep hearing the same feedback constantly or having to keep answering the same questions all the time.
I sometimes get complaints about being rude when answering repeat questions, which is understandable, but I'm a game developer and not a PR person, and I'm using all my mental energy on designing and making a game, so I don't have much patience left in me outside of that.
You could also work on the design language to communicate where a level is more platformy, and where it is more puzzly
Like how portal goes between test chambers and corridors
Like the person's comment just below from circa 1 month ago, you can convey the terms and modes of the level in a way that alerts the user that brute force platforming is the answer, a possible answer, or the completely wrong way to go about it (though they can try at their peril). An example of this is found in the portal games (specifically portal 2, iirc, and the portal bridge builder game, specifically).
In the portal bridge builder game, modeled similarly after it's predecessor in the canon portal series, you are privy to some signs that alert you to the mechanics necessary to 100% the level. The bridge builder one uses neon signs next to the level selector as well as a reminder as you are waiting for the level to load. It's possible it did so during the pause screen as well (next to the redo, level select, and quit to menu options) possibly, but it's been a while since i had that game installed. It was more or less there to instruct my li'l kiddo about patience, thinking inside and outside the box, and not having a mental breakdown or temper tantrum every time something was beyond her means (specifically asking for help when you've exhausted your options)... anyways, sorry for the rabbit hole...
The signs/warnings are there on level select and again during level load because it's very important to help the user not give up when it's frustratingly obvious to them they are missing something blaringly obvious to solve the ridiculous level...something that usually makes perfect sense in hindsight...clever girl...but befuddles the brain up until completion.
Said notifications are present in at least 1 of the portal games (the one where you wake up in a creepy window-wall cell akin to an episode straight out of the OG Twilight Zone tv series, which the more i think about it feels like Portal 2 themed), and possibly in the other one, as well... Apologies, it's been nearly a decade and a half since the first one came out and i played it on a computer.
That said, if you find you need too share a great deal of info with your user and you cannot feed it to them while they play in an organic and natural flowing kind of way, it's a red flag that it's either overly complex, needs to be spread out across levels, or the user is on to something: it's too complex a design or UX. Some game types, and specifically, some puzzler sub-genres are too complex to be digested in the same way a simple board game like "Sorry" or similar might be explained and fall closer to Monopoly, "Game of Life" or Risk... and that's attractive to those audiences who sought out the hardest of the hard because of their unnatural love for the puzzler genre as a whole.
Overall, this was a great series to binge through while thinking about how to break apart the most basics of the basics to teach my kiddo how to apply her theory in programming concepts she's learned into actual programming excercises that would be fun: via Unity. Using a game engine to help teach the basics of programming, math, physics, and other things in a limited scope has been tried before to much success, especially to inspire younger audiences to take a swing at game dev if only for understanding how great a scope the sciences, mathematics, and programming are inhabiting as well as how dependent we are upon them for everything we do.
Thanks for the series, for being humble enough to share the emotional and physically/mentally stressful rollercoaster ride of attempting to correctly and more completely go from ideas that fade away to an entire MVP of a game idea, fleshed out and layed bare in front of the world to both enjoy and nitpick to death... it takes guts and it takes humility (in the best sense of both words) to do that, and not only attempt it, but to follow through and even document and share the ride with those rubbernecking their way through UA-cam videos on game dev.
Thanks again and best of luck on your journey. What you have discovered in this time sometimes takes others decades to discover, let alone for it to sink in. Kudos, and I've subbed to see what comes out next.
The comment at 18:51 sums it up very well! Your skill is impressive Mark! Even though I have no ambition to develop games myself, I really like how you show viewers your journey as a game developer and the lessons you learn from it.
Also massive respect how you cope with feedback and your honesty about the ups and downs in this developing journey.
Keep up the good work!
About the magnet issue: IRL, magnets actually interact in interesting ways with a lot of stuff, including lasers, electrical currents, radiation, etc. I suggest researching how magnets work IRL for inspiration! Good science channels include: Cody'sLab, SciShow, Veritasium, NileRed, and many others which I am certainly missing!
I think that is an incredible idea that would be awesome to see. I particularly would love to see a solenoid in the game, which could replace those boxes that plug into the walls and transfer their charge. It could add some interesting traps to the game, where players have to choose between leaving the magnet behind to activate a solenoid or choosing what order to activate electrical devices. To top it off, it could just be a fun educational tool, teaching people the basics of electro-magnetism and how it is used in practice.
It is very strange, for he did involve lasers and magnetic fields and even hinted at electromagnetism with the plugs that store energy but not much was done with each (for good reason as it was a month-long project). If the game were to be expanded there would be plenty of space to properly introduce these elements and therefore the game would work far better even given alternating platforming segments.
16:38 You missed the opportunity to say "Make the game more 'attractive'"!!!
But seriously though, this video just goes to show how important play testing and public feedback are to the development of games. As well as how important it is to admit mistakes. Very good video
As an indie game designer, I especially love this series. In my opinion, you're doing a great service to game makers by providing this sort of look at game development, using your polished video-creation skills. You're proving that knowing how to analyze games and how to make them aren't the same thing, and that knowing about something (colorblindness accessibility as an example from this video) can be easy to forget in the middle of development. Some stuff just doesn't sink into the brain the same way until you experience it yourself!
Also, calling Unit Testing an airlock has me amused. :D
Thank you so much for making this series, Mark!
I watched only one playthrough on the MVP, one that randomly popped up in my recommended, by some dude I never heard of before or after.
One of the major complaints he had was that there weren't any way to distinguish the press-button from the hold-button. Of course, since predisposition for shortsightedness is the only visual impairment _I_ was born with, I knew there, in fact, was a way, and soon after it turned out the guy was colorblind.
Which I find hilarious in a way - here's a guy that's been doing videos about accessibility in games for *years* and when it finally came down to it, he didn't even consider it. I know Mark said in the last video that accessibility options would come later, but on the other hand we're talking about picking two colors from a palette.
Which just goes to show you - sometimes you're just one oversight away from being the thing you criticize.
Unfortunately it just came down to time - I very quickly needed a way to distinguish the buttons towards the end of the deadline and so went for a cheap and easy colour swap - even though I knew it wouldn't be perfect for colourblind players. Embarrassing, and not recommended - but something to fix in the future!
If it was too costly to throw away the movement code because of the levels, the it got waaaay ahead of a MVP scope. Minimum really means minimum.
Your humility in receiving this feedback is so impressive. Grateful for this look into game design from a person we’ve grown connected to.
It's nice seeing you so exited and energetic about the game, when you talked about the 30 day game making challenge it seemed to me you were close to burning out and giving up.
I hope all the feedback got your juices flowing again and gave you proper motivation for continuing this project.
You got this Mark !
I think for the button issue, you could probably take from Portal and give some sort of visual connection between the button and what it's supposed to modify
I also can't imagine that it would give away solutions because it's just sort of removing a step between seeing the button and finding out what the button does
"Giving the magnets a personality" My first thought here went straight to Thomas Was Alone for inspiration, where they not only all have their own personalities but interact and have character arcs
It's amazing to see your journey in this! Game design is fascinating and to apply that to a game is super commendable. Great work and dedication buddy. We all got your back.
The saddest thing about this series is, that every time an episode ends I wanna watch another one, and have to wait another month...
Thanks so much for all the work you put into this! It's super entertaining and educative!
I think having the magnet as a character and giving it dialogue lines might overcome the problem of the core mechanics not being shown very well. You could give the magnet dialogue that would advise the player on what to do and give hints if they are stuck and that would fix some of the issues you're having.
Clippy 2.0: Maggy
I would make the magnet be part of the characters arm, you can still drop it by detaching your arm but then the player will be like "wait thats part of me, i need that"
literally a "core part" of the characters existence.
making the magnet itself a character seems too expected from an indie game at this point imo
It's amazing how information rich this series is, a great idea executed perfectly, keep it up Mark!
Hey Mark, don’t know if you’ll see this, but this series has been a HUGE motivator for starting my own Unity project. Seeing you go through the learning process at the same time as me reminds myself that game dev is messy and imperfect, but still rewarding, and it’s been highly encouraging. Keep it up, man.
It's an enormous relief to hear that you've never made a game before. I've never made a game before, and I got into game design by watching your channel. It's a little tough thinking that everyone around you has been doing this their whole lives. It's a relief to hear someone you think is an expert is just a noob in the business too. (No offense).
This is a FANTASTIC series. Super high quality video as always and love watching your game progress.
This idea of magnetism is really attractive... but what if it was the opposite ? The repulsiveness of different poles might be something to latch onto.
That’s an amazing idea
This makes so much sense.
He does add this in in version 2.
This has been one of my favorite GMTK series, and this episode specifically was super helpful for me. I just finished a game jam and was trying to figure out how to absorb all the feedback I'm getting, and develop the game into a full release. You gave a lot of good insight to my questions in this video; thanks!
I love the way you combine the perspective of a newbie developer with an insight of experienced game journalist. Thank you, Mark, and all of you who played the game for this video!
If you wanted more feedback… making the game have its own aesthetic would be great! Having it be a nice looking game is just as important as it being nice sounding. It’s definitely a concern for the long run, not urgent, but as you didn’t mention it in the feedback you received I thought I’d put it there!
I definitely agree, right now it feels kinda like a generic flash game. While it's art does function a more distinct style can really set it apart
You have inspired me to do game development which I never thought I would. And you never cease to do that.
I find this very impressive and inspiring as someone who’s learning game development in school. Don’t be too hard on yourself I think you have a great idea here.
Love this series, it is exciting to watch and I am so happy we get to follow you on this Journey. Good luck with the development!
Thanks for watching!
Glad to hear the feedback mostly matched with what you expected. The next version will be even better, I'm sure.
Writing this comment about 15 minutes into the video because I've been sitting here thinking about the unique position that Mark is in the entire time. This is his first game. Most people's first games are only played by friends and family, if they're lucky. Mark has a huge community giving him feedback that's not always "friends and family"-ized, in other words always positive no matter what because they love you and don't want to hurt your feelings. This is kind of a boon as well as a massive hindrance, in that there's tons of feedback to learn from but also, if he doesn't do everything to a certain standard, possibly thousands of people will be complaining to him about the poor experience. I'm not sure if I should envy his position or pity him for it. Either way, keep it up. It gets easier as you go along, I promise.
I’m super excited for this video! This series has been amazing and convinced me to try and make my own game.
10:42 This is a really cool piece of advice! I've never really thought about a toolbox that evolves around the game rather than simply a game that evolves around the toolbox
Here's my suggestion. Have levers instead of buttons. It can show a clear indication of what state the level is in and you could also show how much time you have left as it slowly resets. Granted that might be too small for players
I'm here just for the narrative arc of Mark's hair growing in each thumbnail.
Maybe it's related to working with magnets too long?
The whole Puzzle vs Platformer thing reminds me a lot of the struggles Drawn to Life: Two Realms faced. While previous entries in the series were strict platformers, Two Realms is a puzzle platformer, where each level requires thinking and problem-solving. Given its background, a lot of players didn't go into the game with this expectation, which hurt the experience. The game also has a problem you seem to have avoided so far, which is that in Two Realms, often I had figured out the solution, but the execution sometimes took almost 20 minutes more due to the length of the levels and the inconsistent platforming physics. That's a good one to keep in the back of your mind, I think.
As a beginner puzzle game designer myself, it's amazing to see the difference a large audience makes. So much useful feedback I could only dream of! Don't take it for granted!
Hey, Mark, love your content! I think there is an easy solution for you not having to hear the same feedback again and again next time: create a subreddit for your MVP/Demo. When people criticize something like how the character feels, instead of having the same post over and over, people will just upvote and comment the thread agreeing with the point or adding more insightful views on the same problem. "Threading" the feedback makes it way easier!
I love that you did the "i'm going down in an elevator" bit at the end for real, and not by just moving your composited head down in post.
While this whole project is very impressive, I must commend your courage in deciding to ride the elevator at the end of the video. Completely unexpected and brave, and brought a huge smile to my face
Watching you go through this is awesome. You’re really doing it, indie developing! I can’t wait to see where it goes!
The robot should be "headless" with the magnet being its head. Having a face on that magnet was cool... expressions for various actions could be fun and give it character.
The idea of using your head to solve magnet puzzles speaks to the task as a player too...
MAGNET HEAD!
This is hilarious I hope he sees it.
I would also move the robot move like a unicycle.
I don’t think a lot of people realise quite how much of the creative process involves reiteration or resculpting through trial and error, no matter if you’re making games, films, writing books… whatever your outlet. But this series, and especially this video, is such a beautiful and humble demonstration of what it actually takes to make something great. We romanticise great artists and auteurs as if they can just spew genius with every breath, but the reality is they work damn hard, and go through some tough states of reckoning with their creations in order to get there. And that’s a very vulnerable state for ANYONE to put themselves in, so I’m just so blown away and grateful that you’ve chosen to do that while ALSO documenting it for the world. This is truly a fantastic and fascinating series, and well deserving of an award. Thank you
Loving this series Mark! ❤️ In regards to helping the game feel more focused on magnets, I might have two questions for you, one more interesting than the other.
When you think of a magnet, what is the first thing you think of that you can use a magnet for? Sticking to metal objects obviously. We both know that.
My second question is, what is the SECOND thing you think of that you can use a magnet for? I have ideas of my own but I’m going to let you find your own answer to this since this is your project. It might help you in your journey in puzzle design, mechanics, or even developing a personality for this magnet character you want to create!
Can’t wait to see what the final project will be! ❤️
One of the best channels on youtube. Hands down! Best voice too!
10:15 A game you could look to for inspiration on this "explosion of stuff" problem is N+. I felt it did a good job of just adding one thing each time the room changes.Admittedly, it is more of a platformer.
Hey Mark. Love seeing your journey through developing this game. You're so open about everything and explains your process in a way that makes me feel inspired and maybe even involved in your gamemaking. I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of this journey.
Watching this, I got a few ideas for how to make your game more Magnet-y.
First of all, adding a face is a great idea. I would also suggest different facial animations. It could have a thinking face for when the player stands still, and an excited face when being thrown through the air, and another face for being stuck. Maybe it even looks around when you're carrying it, as if looking for the solution itself.
Another idea would be to always have the magnet at the start of a level, so that picking it up is always the first thing the player does. Maybe even some simple magnet-maneuver is required to move to the actual puzzle. Additionally, you could make it part of each puzzle that the player has to unlock the end-of-level door using the magnet, so that they bring it to the end of the level too.
And yes, adding recall and polarity earlier is also a great idea to center the game more around the magnet. I would also suggest an additional visual indicator of what polarity the magnet has currently: Something on the player character or the screen or HUD being red or blue depending on the magnet's polarity.
As a final idea, you could later on have a second magnetic object that you attract or repel by switching the polarity of your own magnet, moving the object rather than yourself.
You have an amazing amount of insight into how to make the best game possible. Don't be too hard on yourself. This game still looks awesome, and I will absolutely buy it as soon as it comes out.
I don’t think he is going to sell it
First off i just want to say, i'm so happy for you in getting a far as you did all by yourself with this project, and wish you lots of luck in the future with this!
I'm a game designer in the making myself i have hopefully a helpful tip or 2. My experience has been from trying to create / testing prototypes of my own of Board Games, a lot of fundamental things you have said in a previous video and this one still apply to both so i think perhaps some of my experience can help you as well.
1) KISS (keep it simple stupid) you mentioned having lots of things in a particular level, yes that's one part of keeping things simpler. But always adding "things" and stuff and more and more ideas isn't always a good thing. When adding all those new magnet ideas, perhaps not add as many, especially at once. OR and here is an idea that popped into my head while watching this. Instead of adding a bunch of new magnets perhaps add "upgrades" or something to your main character on the screen that lets you change how you can manipulate the magnet w/o adding complexity of another magnet.
2) "Kill Your Darlings" the basic translation is, don't be tied to a certain design or idea. Don't be afraid to let go of something that seems important to you, but just isn't working out in your game. Of course your going to have a huge attachment to every part of this game, but when your holding onto something that you need to let go can help your game way more than trying to "fix it".
-Just a random guy's 2 cents.
The airlock idea makes me worry. Use your testers! Trying to find all the bugs by yourself first will just slow development to a crawl.
the airlock idea is basic applied programming, almost every developer uses a tool called git, where you create "branches" of a program and merge them to the main branch when they end up good and are clear of bugs
also a puzzle game is incredibly sensitive to changes so extra caution is needed
@@crack64 yeah I'm a software dev, I use git. Only commiting to the release branch when its playable is one thing. Spending hours and hours as a solo dev trying to do the work of your testers for them is another.
Mark, I have to say: not only do I learn tons from every episode you do of this series, I'm also really invested in this being a good experience for you! It gets me so excited to see that you are really going after your dream of developing your own game, and I really want you to succeed. Not only that, I am genuinely hopeful that it is a good experience overall. So my feedback is this: whether things are going great or poorly, remember to take time to appreciate all the work you've done, and take care of yourself.
Cheers!
i would have suggested something on the lines of "oh make the Platforming & Puzzle stages visually distinct" but yeah focusing on getting one Done well first is the better idea
also, yeah making the Magnet a character can work, but i don't think that's what most of the feedback means, for example in Portal they don't make the Portals characters but they made them pretty obvious by being this Bright Orange light in a completely sterile white room, also the fact that you basically can't do anything BUT Portal for most of the early chambers
This is such a cool series. It really shows the process, the difficulties, the complexity, the frustration and the joy of making a game. And while I'm not a developer, I think that the topics you touch upon seem fairly universally applicable. The way you incorporate the topics to your own game that you usually discuss for other games like accessibility is really neat.
Also mad respect for being able to distill all that feedback into their core elements to improve. That is a skill that only few people can boast, keep up the good work!
It does make sense to scrap the platforming levels for now - you've got enough on your plate balacing puzzles and everything else. That being said, I do like platformers that mix some puzzles in and vice-versa, so maybe they're worth bringing back much later down the line? 👀
Keep up the great work! This is amazing to see your journey on becoming a developer and I wish you all the success!
honestly my favorite part of developing was when Mark revealed how he learned unity (for real this time) I think a tutorial video would maybe kinda possibly muddy the development log
I've really been enjoying this series. Love your regular uploads too, but this series has truly been something special. Thanks for sharing your journey, you'll be inspiring lots of other devs!
Perhaps you could solve the “more magnety” problem by having the main character BE the magnet. Perhaps he can detach his magnetic head and throw it, but has to reunite with it to finish the level.
Lol looking back I realize this sort of was your original idea so, nvm
One thing I've noticed in the puzzle games I've really enjoyed, like Portal and Unpuzzle and Gravitas (which is a bit less polished than the first two but still excellent) is that they have a theme of building on previous information. Starting with the absolute basics first, and building on that, often in a way that still empowers players who Get the idea to go through what they already know very quickly, while allowing players new to the concept to get a handle on what's expected of them.
The very first level of Unpuzzle is literally just pulling two puzzle pieces apart, while by the end of the game you're rotating symbol locks and dealing with timers and have pieces that can only move in one direction, but because each of those elements were introduced gradually, usually over multiple increasingly complex levels in a row, it's not overwhelming.
The lack of a timing element also makes that one easy to handle, since there's no time pressure (unless you enjoy speedrunning), you can stop and work out each stage of how to take this one big whole apart.
Sort of how like I just broke up one big paragraph into multiple lines, so it's easier to read! Even if it's not the most grammatically-correct formatting I could have done for it, lol.
Also, about 11:45 there - Ring of Pain is a positive example on timing. It's a roguelike that can be, as titled, very punishing, but the reset speed is virtually instantaneous and cuts out excess, so you can restart at the press of a button. Since I can go from a loss to a new game in under 30 seconds, failing or dying is more of a learning experience than a real problem, so experimenting is very rewarding and easy to do.
Can I nominate officially naming it “Titled Magnet Game”? Just so we could have that juicy acronym GMTK TMG
Hell yeah palindromes
This series is consistently the best on UA-cam! I’m excited to see where you take the game next
I agree the magnet should be a character! Specifically, it's strange how often you're leaving the magnet behind in order to solve a puzzle -- it feels like something you'd want to bring with you, rather than just respawning a new one when you need it. In Portal terms, I think it should be closer to a "companion cube" that your goal is to bring throughout the entire level and you form an attachment with (even if a small one), rather than a regular degular cube that you can throw away at any given moment.
this is my first time seeing GMTK guy, and boy does he look like GMTK guy would
I can think of a few platformers that do combine puzzles with reaction skills. I think Limbo and Control did that successfully in some degree. Even a game like celeste sometimes had puzzle like situations in which you'd try to get a strawberry using platforming skills and after a few fails you'd realize you should sit back a little and find a more logical solution. So I think there might still be a scenario in which you combine puzzles and platforming skills, given that you'd make sure to give a strong failure feedback to the player when try the wrong skills so that they'd know in a few tries to use the other.
The bgm kept making me think that my phone got a notification on silent mode.
I feel like those platforming levels would be fine in the game as long as the skills learned from them are used in later levels. Otherwise, they feel like they don't support the game's main purpose.
Been loving the series! Every episode gives me a lot of information on how to go about making that game I thought of, just need to get started actually prototyping it 😅 Also, I loved the little elevator exit at the end. Can’t wait for more from the channel!
Thanks!
If you wanna add story elements to the thing, might I recommend making it about a romance between the magnet character and the robot character? And over the course of the game as they work together they become more "attracted" to each other :P
Binging these from the start over the Christmas Interval and I'm getting so much out of them (currently at 5/12)
Over and above all of the really interesting technical points I think I'm almost more enjoying your clarity of thought and personal honesty of how these learning points appear and how you reflect on them. It's really refreshing and reassuring. Thank you Mark, I hope you are having a nice break.
what if the magnet WAS the character (like it's the head) and the body is just what is moving the head around. Could limit the field of view based on the magnet field of the magnet. Maybe something on the body always points in the direction of the magnet too
It's awesome that you went this far and get so many good insights in this video, congrats!
Actually after watching the video it made me think, what you were talking about is, in a nutshell all the feelings that are packed in the game dev industry now. And you showed them, raw. I never saw this, since most dev diaries are marketing videos than anything else.
You should be double proud!!
IMO in more of a puzzle game you can just have a single pressure plate/button for everything, so people start by clicking it to see what it does
The other way would be to have a different style or color for each action at which point the puzzle solves itself based on the button type
It is really comforting to see you going through a journey of game development so similar to my own. The series of realizations about limitations and skills required is relatable. Thank you for sharing this!! I would imagine there are moments where this has seemed difficult or scary. Thank you for pushing through that!! It helps me, with little voice in the world, feel connected and known even though it’s your journey.
Hi! The game looks fun! But tangentially to the "character nintendo-izing" thing. I won't say going into a character magnet would be my first idea. I think I need to care more about the little robot first. Then feed me some kind of lore to keep me engaged - why is the robot connected to magnets? Is the robot some kind of hero? Is there a villain or a catastrophe the robot can only solve by using his power over magnets? I can see written dialogue or even environmental storytelling being used for this. I know there is nowhere near the same budget as a game like It takes Two but that game kept me engaged through both dialogue and environments. The drive to watch the next cutscene and move the story forward (even for something as simple as wanting to see what would be the next themed area) kept me engaging with the puzzles.
Good job on follow through. Realizing your ideas is often the hardest part
One Of The Main Thing That All Game Developers must know is that criticism and failures are just a Part of our learning
If u hear criticisms and Hatred for your game , dont feel bad its just a part of the game
You still have space to improve yourselfs
I am not sure if someone will read this comment in the heap of comments but anyway if you see this , i wish you all the best for your upcoming game 😊
Why do u type like that
@@ToriKo_ is that a genuine question? Or is it a criticism of the way they write? If it is the latter you may want to work on how to deliver criticism in a well thought out and kind manner.
Huge Congrats on making your first game Mark. Watching this series has inspired me to not give up on my first game project. Keep going. :)
Does the polarity swapping and sleep mode (which I would suggest be called "demagnetized") cycle? Because if precision matters at any point, cycling to the wrong polarity when you want to turn off the magnet could cause issues. I would suggest using the weapons cycling system from Destiny. Applied to your game, tapping would swap polarity, holding would turn the magnet off, when its off, tapping again returns you to the last polarity used and holding whilst the magnet is off swaps to the opposite of the polarity last used. Or you could have it so tapping the button from the magnet of always sends you to the red polarity and holding always sends you to the blue polarity. Complex in description, but Destiny proves its a simple and intuitive means of precisely cycling between three things on one button.
i feel like you could just have two different buttons
@@fiona9891 True two buttons for 3 actions is more complicated than one tbh. Plus its less intuitive.
About the feedback. Welcome to the real world of game dev. If you want a piece advice how to deal with that: if it becomes too much, have someone help you remove duplicates first. It has to be someone you trust to think the same way you do (and maybe give stats). You can also write down things that you already know dont work and have that person filter out duplicates for that too. Also as a programmer? Can you imagine how many times I went "I KNOW!!!! IT FRUSTRATES ME TOO!!"? I cant even play my old games because of that either. I can present them, but playing for myself instantly conjures terrible feelings of failure about how this or that didnt go as envisioned :X.