The Singer brand was ended in 1970 but the Humber brand continued as the Humber Sceptre until 1976 when the UK built Chrysler Alpine was launched. You missed the decision in 1970 to end the UK side of the 180/2Litre car and its V6 engine. This was a result of the losses and the cost overruns on moving the Arrow to Linwood and putting the Avenger into Ryton, this was so great there was no hope of profitability, so Chrysler stopped all investment in the UK till the management and workforce got a grip of things. They never did so there was no material investment until the Government bale out in 75. This did the following. 1. Put the Alpine into Ryton, 2. Moved a facelifted Avenger to Linwood. 3. Enabled a small car to be developed on the Avenger platform, the Sunbeam. 4. Introduced a new large van using a US Chrysler van body design, over a UK derived light truch chassis the Dodge 50. 5 the facelifted small van becoming the Dodge Space Van. Ryton was to have somewhat of a renaissance under Peugeot building 309, 405, 306 and 206.
@fredyellowsnow7492 Hi it was essentially meant to be exactly that. But ended up with the Simca ohc engine, which was pretty good in its day and the rest of the powertrain taken from the Simca 1501. Had it existed as a UK car it would have used the 1800 (Brazilian block) version of the Avenger high cam engine and a 2000 and 2400 V6 engine of similar architecture to the Avenger engine.
As a Rootes Group Apprentice - their apprenticeship scheme was incredible and feel humble/grateful at the start they gave me after leaving school with no qualifications. A scheme sadly needed in our once great country.
I learned to drive in my mum's Australian assembled Hillman Minx Series III b (1960). Rootes cars were well made and reliable. Engine components were weighed and sorted into sets by weight to produce well balanced units. Rootes is yet another sad chapter in the frustrating story of the British automotive industry.
My father worked for Rootes in the 50’s and had his own distributorship in the 60’s. The picture you use of the Maidstone depot reminds me of the night we coasted down from Wrotham into Maidstone in a brand new Minx during Suez, and dad pulled into those pumps to fill up. Petrol was rationed and within seconds there was a queue out of sight. During the 60’s we had , used and holidayed in every type of Rootes car, mother had a Sunbeam Rapier 111 convertible , unbelievabley my father towing a caravan with a Singer Chamois all the way to Cornwall, with my parents and two children. Over 300 miles. Dad had to stop once or twice to let it cool down after long hills. I am now the proud owner of a Mk2 Super Minx with original 92k engine which we recently reshelled with std sized bearings. One of only about 230 still on the roads. I have so many memories. Rootes used to throw a Christmas party for the children at Maidstone with individual names presents and in the 50’s I met Reginald and William with my dad at the Coventry plant.
Love this channel.... My first car was a 1968 British racing green singer Vogue which I brought in the mid 1980s as I'd just passed my test.... MOT time came along and I found a huge hole in the passenger side footwell.... No problem I stuck a huge ceramic bathroom tile over the hole using body filler as a glue.... Then a thick coat of underseal... Job done 👍.... Got a fresh mot 😂😂... Unfortunately this lovely old singer Vogue came off worst in a battle with a huge Volvo estate car later in the year and went to the scrap yard in the sky..... Fond memories of the roots vogue with its lovely walnut dashboard... RIP
Really interesting and well researched piece ( as was your Marina vid). My dad had a Hillman Hunter which I was allowed to drive after I passed my test in 1972. Great 1725cc engine which was better than the 1600 Cortinas. Only problem , an aluminium head which warped. Understandably dad made me pay for re-skimming it (in the days when parts were repaired, not just replaced). A few years later I had a Marina “company car”. In hot weather you had to open the windows and put the heater on to stop the engine overheating and endure the drive on plastic seats! Not quite such good old days!
Thank you Tom for the great work on the history of Rootes Group. My dad when he was alive used to talk to me about the Avenger he had in between his Austin/Morris’s, and where I worked in Colinton an employee used to drive her Hilman Imp to/from work which had a lot of work done on it.
I work for Arnold Clark and at Linwood on the railway bridge you can still see the writing Talbot home of the avenger and sunbeam greetings from Scotland 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
I used to work for BR&ScotRail. We had an old DMU to learn the route from Falkirk Grahamston via Cumbernauld to Glasgow QSt when Ravenscraig&Gartcosh steelworks were still there.
My first car in 1973 was a 1966 Singer Chamois (Imp) followed a year later by a 1966 Sunbeam Alpine Which I managed to keep going until 2009! Dad had a last model Minx followed by an Avenger GL at the time I got the Chamois. All of them were great cars.
What is troubling as that this was a pattern more or less followed by the entire UK car manufacturing industry, the one common factor of course being the British governments involvement and decision making!
Brilliant video, have an uncle who worked in development at Ryton and their test track at Wellesborne air field, many happy memories of being driven around the test track in Rapier H120’s and Hunter GT’s and GLS’s. Always came back with a big grim after he had chucked one of them about on the test track or a quick run down the Fosse Way with other cars from the development department racing each other. Very happy days. Even got to go in the Hunter London to Sydney rally car.
I have never owned a Rootes Group car, but my grandad owned a Hillman Avenger, with the hockey stick rear lights. At that time I was only learning to drive but grandad used to take me to Smeatharpe Aerodrome where I could drive. And that car was just brilliant to drive.
My mum and dad had a Hillman Imp which the gearbox went on the old A1 before I was born,their next car before they went Japanese was the avenger which was a nice and reliable car,I’m originally from Maidstone so im gonna have to do some digging now but from what my mum tells me she remembers routes limited dealer back then in Maidstone it ran for over 100 years 1913-2019 wow cheers Tom more happy memories 👍😉💪
As an employee of the Rootes Group in the 1960's in the design department, I was acutely aware of the situation that was transpiring with the government and the Chrysler corporation. With regards to Linwood the government reneged on the amount of money they had promised when the second amount was due to be given! This had a dramatic effect on the progress and development of the IMP. Making it impossible to stick to the opening date which had been set on the assumption the money was forthcoming. Added to that was the date the Duke of Edinburgh had was fixed and not negotiable! When Chrysler entered the scene they had no knowledge of the UK market and further did not understand the idea of the IMP. This was their and Rootes downfall. They were far too interested in big land yachts than small economic cars for UK roads. The Arrow range was well on in its development with many pre-production vehicles out on test, both at MIRA & abroad, prior to Chrysler getting involved! The Avenger was at the final design stage also prior to Chrysler taking control! The Company under the Rootes family would have survived had they been given the money promised by successive governments which did not materialize!
Yes the Avenger shape & style by Roy Axe was finalized in November 1965 .the next year or so concentrated on the mechanicals, as they weren't carry over designs or parts as per the Arrow; so the Avengers development had been under Rootes with little input from Chrysler USA, cash may have boosted it's final stages by 1968
Hi I learned to drive (in 1985)in a 1975 Hillman Avenger 1.3 dl, which cost £125 And my father always told me of his sunbeam talbot 3l he had My aunt opened the rear passenger door before my father had stopped the car, just before a lamppost which took the door of the hinges and wrote the car off Thanks for all the great videos and insight into the British car industry 😃👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I'm going to be doing something similar to that, a lot of people have said they'd like a longer one so I'm going to be covering these eras in a bit more detail.
My father was the Roots Dealer for the country of Nicaragua in Central America. I remember vehicles from 1954 till the end as Chrisley with the Avenger. I remember the Commer van. We had 90% of the taxi industry in the country. I can still remember completing the legal size paper to order each car with the selection of options. I remember driving the Humber Imperial with the overdrive transmission. The aromal of the leather still in my memories. I'm happy to know your channel about Hillman. I remember the promotion of Rallies with the IMP . Thank you for your documental
I sat for my driving test in early 1969 in an Australian assembled Arrow, a mere 3 months after Andrew Cowan won the Lodon to Sydney Marathon in an Arrow. Serious street cred at the time. 4 on the floor, all synchro gearbox, robust 1725 cc inline 4, rear wheel drive. An absolute belter.
My first car after I passed my test at 17 in 1985 was a 1965 Hillman Superminx. Had to use the starting handle a few times which was a scary operation. Loved the floor footswitch for high/low beam headlights....
My dad's first lorry was a Commer 2 stroke with a blower and my uncle had a Hillman Avenger painted like starsky and hutches car and we had a Hillman imp in our garage for years which I use to play in
I've been wanting to relearn a lot of stuff I've forgotten over the years about rooted group cars. This certainly cleared things up and gave plenty of lovely new bits, spot on 👌
good insight. always happy to see the younger generation like yourself and Ed at TwinCam digging up the history of our once world dominant car industry. many on the right blame the British workforce for the collapse of this industry but time and time again the downfall started with poor decisions, a lack of foresight, complacency and plain penny-pinching by senior management.
I loved the avenger when I was a kid in the early 80’s… there was something about the L shape rear lights I liked. Kinda like the cortina mk1, I liked that because of the rear lights 🤷♂️
Both cars had very distinctive styling , just think Roy Axe who was the designer of the Avenger finalized the style & shape of the Avenger in November 1965 , just when the MK1 Cortina was selling like ' hot cakes' & the MK2 prototypes were being road testing for sale in 1966. The Hunter beat it though as it was first to go on sale in August :66. The 'Bow back ' rear window of the Avenger saloon is similar to that of the MK4 Zephyr / Zodiac & the Saab 99 that launched in 1968.
My dad worked at Rootes Linwood and I still remember going to the Christmas parties as a child, in the factory canteen, where Santa would arrive in a fleet of cars (with his elves) to give presents to all the children. Some of the best presents I ever had and still a great memory to this day ❤
My Aunt ran a Hillman Hunter in Australia in the 1970s. Chrysler Australia assembled them from CKD kits - they were quite popular, being tough and mechanically straight forward. I'm surprised you haven't mentioned the Iranian Paykan (Hunter) - the kits sent to Iran were for many years Britain's largest automotive export. Production continued into the new millenia. An Iranian former colleague drove one from Tehran to Munich in 1979
The Hillman Hunter was popular as a taxi cab in Iran back in the 1970's & 1980's and into the 1990's. Our local dentist had a Humber Super Snipe in the early 1970's, I still remember the plush seats and the real wood grained dashboard. Also our schools music teacher, nicknamed "Clutch" had a Hillman Imp in the late 1960's, she used to rev the guts out of it on the steep uphill grade out of the school carpark and ride the clutch, she was in her 60's back then. Memories, now all we have is Japanese, South Korean and Chinese rubbish in the lower priced Australian car market. Great video and well researched, most enjoyable.
@@petersargeant1555 yes indeed forgot to mention that, replaced by the Samand built also by Irankhodro formerly known as Iran National Motor company based on the also build by them Peugeot 405....
Great video Tom. Really enjoyed that. It’s incomprehensible that the second largest car in the UK should literally fade away given some of the iconic brands they owned and some outstanding designs (thinking of the Audax cars here). However, in automotive, standing still is effectively going backwards such is the pace of this business, and the reason why, Saab, Rover, and many others (thought too big to fail) are no longer with us.
@timgriggs8592 Because it has a 200 billion dollar debt, it's energy costs have risen sharply, and the Chinese are making serious inroads to it best markets.
I am not two minutes into your video and you mention a Rover SD1 my all-time favourite car of all-my time, though I paid dearly for this particular motor love affair! My dad drove Hillman's and Humber's so you have my attention. Thank you very much for this intriguing post!😀
After seeing several of your specials about the glorytime and demise of the British car industry I must say…very well made! In depth, lots of facts, non biased. Best regards from the Netherlands
Tom I really and thoroughly enjoyed this one as I was a former proud owner of rally Avenger which I rallied in club and international events. For me it had a better located back end than the Escort, and Des O'Dell, who ran the competition division was brilliant who on one international even sent us key items to get through scrutineering all the way from Linwood! You have certainly cornered the market in automobile history videos and I did notice that the edits were less brutal that help loose the frenetic pace of the early ones. Well done. I love 'em! Rob
Remember a chap I worked with years ago who was originally from Brinklow , just down the road from Ryton upon Dunsmore. Served in the latter part of the 2WW,then returned home to Brinklow. On returning home he got a job on the production line at Ryton,the stories he relayed of the production line being deliberately sabotaged so the shift could finish early on a Friday were unreal. Ultimately he couldn't put up with these shenanigans and left the factory. Right up to the time the whole complex was demolished some of the original buildings that fronted the adjacent A45 still sported their WW2 camouflage. Fast forward to the present I ended up working on the site of Rootes whilst it was being redeveloped. All very sad from how I remember it. Interesting video, thanks for posting.
We had a large GM plant where I grew up in california, and I heard a lot of stories from my sister and her friends who worked there. All through the 70's the same stories, strikes, intentionally messing up the line, sabotaging cars, just screwing around in general, after all the union was telling them it was fine, what could the company do? That plant was closed by the early 80's and sat unused until Toyota decided to do a "partnership" with GM to reopen the plant, but this time it was Toyota's rules and the union couldn't play games. They looked at everyone's history there and only took back people with a good work history, and so many people she knew who thought they'd be working, weren't, and the union was powerless. Eventually there was little GM involvement and no GM cars built there, and when the GM bankruptcy and government bailout of the union went through, Toyota was out. The plant now produces Tesla cars and has no union.
@@Oldbmwr100rs Thank you for your reply. The deliberate deindustrialization in American mirrors our own situation in the UK and is a deep dark subject when one goes digging to find out why! Bethlehem Steel Corporation in America is a perfect illustration and a tradegy for all who relied on it for employment. Johnston Sweepers Ltd based in southern England opened a manufacturing facility in California I think, to supply the American market,as you state same shenanigans, with a workforce more intent on sunbathing than working plus other issues with the plant . Eventually the plant was closed and the Johnston group of companies which had suffered serious financial hardship because of California were broken up and sold off. Johnston Engineering Ltd survives but under the banner of Bucker ,a Swiss asset stripping Globalist outfit.
God video as always. One small thing - the Talbot Arizona wasn't dropped in favour of the Peugeot 309, it became the Peugeot 309, your picture of the Arizona is a dead ringer for the production 309. Basically it was renamed at the last minute. Used the centre section of the 205.
From one Tom to another, great video! I believe the reason Plymouth dropped the Cricket is because the captive import subcompact Dodge was selling at the same time, the Mitsubishi-made Colt, had far fewer customer complaints and warranty claims. Thus, for the 1974 and '75 model years, Canadian market Crickets became rebadged Colts, while the name was changed to Plymouth Colt for 1976 (Weirdly, U.S. Chrysler-Plymouth dealers would be without *any* subcompacts in the 1974 and '75 model years, right when they needed one the most!).
Yes the Cricket would have been just the car to beat the sales of Datsun, Honda , Mazda, but it was the surge in sales particularly in 1972 of the Toyota Corolla that cought Chrysler asleep , Ryton in Coventry couldn't make enough to export ,as the Avenger sales were steadily rising in Britain,, especially as the estate & 2 doors were launched in 72. Had they assembled LHD models in the US it might have been more of a success. The Japanese learned this in the mid to late 70s building models in the US & laterley in Australia & UK .
The first car I remember being in the Gatland family was a 'D'-reg blue Hillman Minx. I definitely remember bringing my newborn brother back from hospital in it after he was born. The next car we got after that was an 'M'-reg green MK3 Cortina GXL which I loved to bits 😊
One of those rare Sunbeam Tigers was sold to a man in my neighbourhood here in Finland... It was an eye opener to me. And a Mexico that guy next door had. My father drove Maxi and Marina... 😖
I has a 1962 Humber Super Snipe Limousine ( sliding privacy glass and flagstaff on the hood/bonnet) version. It was on diplomatic service overseas before coming back to the UK in 1976 on a P plate. I picked it up in 88 and soon after the age related plates became available from DVLA- I got a 1962 plate. Loved that car, but parts particularly body panels were rare. I sold the car mid 90s.
I learnt to drive in a F reg 1968 Hillman Estate. It was the family car. I then had it as my first car. Great car and masses of space. Had the 1725 cc engine so went well. I thought Humber went beyond 1970. Enjoyed the video many thanks. I went to Ryton recently and the factory has gone.
We have fond memories of the Hillman and Singer cars. We lived in New Zealand from 1961 to 1965. We bought a 1956 Hillman Minx in 1961 although in NZ it was badged as Humber 80. It was a beautiful car which we kept until we came back to England. During our time in NZ, I worked for a while as a driver for Todd motors which was Rootes production plant in Lower Hutt near Wellington. I was there at the time when Chrysler were showing off their gas turbine car, and was privileged to see it close up although I didn't get a ride in it. Shortly after returning to this country we bought a Singer Vogue which was one of the best cars I've ever had, and still miss it now.
I started work at Rootes Maidstone in 2004, was a Peugeot main dealer, name was later changed to Robins and day, a few years ago, company was relocated to a new site, the old site is being redeveloped, but some parts are listed, like the the frontage, and the ramp inside
In 1968 December, a Hillman Hunter won the London to Sydney Marathon (Andrew Cowan). The next year Chrysler Australia produced the Hillman Hunter GT, with 1725cc Sunbeam Rapier engine and Twin Webber carbies, wooden fully instrumented dash, rocker switches, metallic purple body, vinyl roof and reclining front seats.......boy could that fly. Was my second car and there were lots of places in South Australia where you could really let the car rip, on many occasions I passed the 100mph mark on the speedo. Loved that car, until my missus was involved in an accident (not her fault).....so got a Datsun 180B
Yes,. That was a very tough rally where even Ford, BMC & Volvo were struggling. pity Rootes didn't ' cash in ' on the Hunters success with the GLS launch in say,1969 instead of waiting till '72. It would have been a competitive car against the sometimes temperamental & fragile MK2 Cortina Lotus ( by then fully assembled by Ford at Dagenham) The Hunter was successful in touring cars. Circa 72 to 75.
I also had a Hunter GT ( I'm also from South Aust.) And I agree with everything you said. They were a pocket rocket and much underrated. I still reckon that wooden dash with all its round guages was one of the best ever.☺
Great video, thank you. I never realised Rootes were as big as they were at their height. A sad and rapid demise. I had a few Hillmans and Singers in my teens and twenties and enjoyed them all. As a child I loved the arrow shape of the Hillman Hunter, soooo cool. Pleasant surprise to see it again on the Peugeot 405. Nice feature on the '69 Singer Vogue I had, apart from the reclining seats, was manually dimmable pilot lights. A little mask slid over the lens to lessen the brightness of say the main beam warning light. I suppose the Sceptre would have had that too. And don't forget the handbrake in the door well not on the transmission tunnel! The quirkiness of the Citroen I now drive reminds me strongly of those cars.
My Dad had Rootes Group company cars from the early 60s to 1970. He had two Hillman Minx's then a Singer Gazelle which I thought was fantastic with it's rectangular headlights, and a Hillman Hunter in about 1970. He then got promoted and moved onto Rover cars but I will always remember the Rootes cars of my childhood ❤
Very interesting video. Ma's first car was a 54 Hillman Minx. She only kept it 4 years, but she accumulated a good number of miles, as she was commuting to her job as a teacher some 50 miles away from where she was living. She used to say that it would purr in the rain, but develop asthma with the first snowflake. Considering that this was in Ontario, Canada, the car wheezed through 6 months of the year.
Like wise.My father had Hillman minx's, 4 in total spanning 1954 -1983. He passed his test '54 next day bought a brand new Hillman minx £650 cash then drove from Newcastle to Bournemouth for a family holiday. No motorways ,hardly saw another car and the AA men on their motor bikes saluting as they passed. When driving was a pleasure.Happy Days !
@rogernevin7461 My dad's last Minx was a 69 model bought new. Three years ago, we had to sell it to pay for his dementia care. Fortunately, it went to a nice guy who keeps us informed about it. Dad looked after it like his baby
Great video, must have taken a lot of research to help this video made, my dad had a singer vogue estate, it was a 1967 e reg, i loved it as a kid with the big grille and little covers over the indicator lights on the dash to me it was like a rolls Royce, the bad bit was the 1725 engine, it dropped big end on a regular basis, and i remember the coffee like sludge when you took the oil cap off,,,
This would have been 1985 so (18/19yo) I'm on my third car. Now I liked the car I had (1978 Golf/Rabbit) that was "MY" First car. A week or so later I'm heading home, pass by what was a decaying gas station, and now a used car lot loaded with weird cars (his words). They were downright weird, things like a street legal King Midget., a Crosley, bunch of Saabs including an orange Sonnet. Behind them was a trio of British cars, they were all painted the same rich burgundy, the same tan vinyl trim level. I was transfixed, Hilman coupe GT, a less attractive coupe, and a smart looking sedan. Hesitated a bit too long, and a lecture from dad about RWD cars in the winter. I ultimately passed, drove the rabbit for years, that was my first fun to drive car. Ahh, memories. Thank you for another charming video. You're doing a great job young man.
I did my apprenticeship in the Humber body experimental dept as a styling modelmaker, I made the perspex Avenger rear light clusters for the first fibreglass mockup. Later went into body engineering design and in 1997 bought the company name "Chrysler Limited" which I kept until 2 years ago.
My 1st car was a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful 1967 "Sunbeam Rapier Fastback" in Sherwood Forest Green - (F-Reg') Always did draw favourable comments over it's inherent good looks, was super reliable & NEVER let me down. I wuz a proud owner especially being a teenager & it meant I didn't have to drive Mum & Dad's "Standard 10" Mum bought a GORGEOUS Rover P.6 with the V.8 3500cc engine (M-Reg) - Lovely cars & happy days (hindsight)
You did ask for comments? I worked in a Rootes dealership in the 60s and early 70s, they were really nice cars. In the video there is little mention of the Rapiers with Holbay engines, the Alpines (though the Tiger is mentioned briefly), or the Sunbeam Talbot 90s that were so successful in the Monte Carlo Rallies. A final point, and please take this as constructive criticism not a complaint, your delivery of the commentary is much too fast and high pitched; slow it down a little, the way it is presented makes it seem like you're just reeling off a load of facts and don't really care about what happened!
Totally agree with your comments. I too worked at Rootes group in Birmingham when the Avenger was released. I have owned a Hillman Minx, Hillman Hunter, Sunbeam rapier and a Hillman Imp. Favourite car was the Sunbeam Alpine which was not really mentioned in this episode and yes, it does sound like you are just reeling off loads of facts from a book.
As kids, our Dad had a second hand Minx which was a reliable family car. In 1967 he bought a new Minx and that also went well. Later he bought a blue Avenger but not as good as smaller inside. He then switched to bigger Ford Cortina.
The last ever Talbot was the Talbot Express, which was the Peugeot J5/Citroen C25/Fiat Ducato Van, all built in Italy. There was however a bus version called the Talbot triaxle that was converted at the old Rootes plant on the Humber road in Coventry. This was in 1990
I liked the way Rootes persevered with the pillar-less coupe format as the Sunbeam Rapier. Only Mercedes continued with this. The last shape Rapier was a fantastic design - a great shame that so few survive. My uncle had an early Humber Sceptre. Although its mechanicals were fairly mundane, its interior quality and equipment levels (for the day, including overdrive) were fantastic. The cockpit-like fascia design of the Sceptre still looks impressive today.
Thanks for a terrific video. I was a big fan of the Arrow range of cars when growing up and persuaded my Dad to buy a Sunbeam Vogue estate (they were badged as such for a short time after the Singer brand was dropped) replacing our somewhat frumpy Austin 1800. I thought the Hillman Avenger was so cool when it came out partly because the TV adverts used the theme tune from The Avengers series. All told, a sad story of decline of a great company and manufacturer of some wonderful cars.
Having owned (in my early days of driving), 4 Rootes cars in straight succession, i wish I was in situation to drive any one of them as a classic. The first was 1957, series 1 Minx Convertible with the 1390 engine. It was tired and abused by the time i had it in 1967 but nowadays would get a full resto. The next was a 58/59, series 3 saloon, complete with Brighton registration. This one cost me £20 and I ran it for 3 years. It had the 1494 engine. Next was a very tidy 3C saloon run from 1971 until 1973. During my ownership i reconditioned the 1600 engine. During the down time, I bought a 3A estate to keep me on the road, another bargain for £25, which I sold again when the 3C was up and running again. All of them except the 3C had a column change and these were light, a joy to use and kept that bench front seat free for an extra passenger in the front. Unlike Ford and Vauxhall at the the time, they were also 4 speed. Being still between 18 and early twenties at the time. I used to manage clutchless changes, like all the boy racers on the move quite easily, which considering the mechanical joints involved in the linkage, says a lot about Rootes design. I went all cortina mad after my 3C until the nineties. My only wish, cars with the same integrity were still available today. The demise of Rootes was the beginning of the end for British car manufacture. Chrysler totally wrecked what was Rootes. Shame. 😢
great video my dad owned a 1960s hillman minx we went everywhere in it, sadly no photos but i remember being a dark green colour. i was only 7 at the time. he sold it due to head gasket issues and bought aother car think was a wolsley 1800 automatic. great videos
Sunbeam still has a bit of a presence where I live in Ohio. There was a Rootes dealer in Dayton back in the sixties and my dad’s friend actually founded the Sunbeam Alpine Owners Club Of America (SAOCOA) here in the early 2000s. I’m now on my second Alpine. A 1967 Series 5 in British Racing Green. It’s such a nice car to drive and much more roomy than a Triumph TR4 and MG B.
I do love an imp. Learnt to drive in one when I was about 9. My dad picked it up after it had sat in a garage for 20 years for £25. Can’t get one for that now!
My Grandfather worked for them in Maidstone from the 1920s until Luton in 1963, in management he saw them become Chrysler UK. In 1945 Rootes were the first to be offered Volkswagen, to which the family said it was junk. The Labour government forced them through tax incentives, to partially construct cars in Birmingham area, ship to Scotland, then return for competition in Birmingham. All those Scots knew what to do was to strike … My uncle bought a dealership in 1964 and was killed in an IMP. No seatbelts, no collapsable steering column, inept management from mis 1960s onward; continual labour stoppages for no reason. We had a Sunbeam Rapier from 1957, that was constantly in for repairs. One night in 1961 my father went to start it and the engine caught fire. Made the tv news in northern Ontario, as little kids we thought it was funny to see a car burn.
In 1971 I purchased a used Sunbeam Alpine GT fastback . Not a lot of power but beautiful interior and distinctive. Finally had to give it up as parts were so hard to get. in the US.
My first car was a Singer Chamois, I went on to buy a Chamois Coupe, I enjoyed them both, I taught my girlfriend( now my wife)to drive in the coupe in the mid 70’s. We used to have the Coventry climax engine in portable fire pumps carried on the Green Goddess Fire Appliance when I was in the Army Fire Service, a good little engine.
My first car was a Hillman Super Minx 1600 Sport. Really nice car, but heavy and a bit thirsty. But taken it's age in memory, it was well builded and reliable. And funny, that you'll forget about other cars you have owned, but never the first one.
The Imp, with its rear engine, could be described as a poor man’s Porsche 911, as it was raced with much success in British saloon car races in the late 1960s and early 1970s.
I owned a 1961 IIIB Minx as my first car in 1974 and then got a 1970 2A Hunter in 1976. Later I owned a 1961 IIIB Humber 80 ( a badge engineered Hillman Minx built alongside the regular Minx in the NZ market that allowed Humber dealers to sell a cheaper car), as a classic. Between my Father, grandfather and I we probably owned 13 or so Hillmans / Humbers from the 50's Mark models through Audax to Arrow cars.
Yep: I had a 1960's Sunbeam Alpine in the early 70's which was great fun, if a little rusty. It was often referred to as a "Husky GT" because the chassis was a Hillman Husky (a shortened Minx) with a twin carb engine. My girlfriend (who latter became my wife) and I had a fantastic trouble-free trip to Italy in 1973 in it. The car I really wanted was of course a Sunbeam Tiger but the insurance company were at the time not too happy due to my age. Chrysler were also not too happy with a US-Ford engine in a Rootes car, so that car was discontinued (Not mentioned in your video). Years later, I did end up with an MGB V8 which was also a British sports car with a US V8 (Buick) and I still have it. The only alternative would have been an AC Cobra;-)
My grandad was an ex REME tank recovery specialist and then worked for a Rootes dealer as a mechanic. He was as adamant as my dad who worked for GM about buying their cars. He had a Hillman hunter which at the time I sort of liked. The he ended up with a peugeot 205.
My father worked for Chrysler in Australia in the ‘70s, I remember a binder my father gave me which had “Rootes Group” embossed on it. I asked my father about it who explained who they were.
Excellent video production, featuring many cars I had only heard about, never driven! The end appeared to begin with a strike. (Will the unions ever learn?)
Around around 1962 my mother learner to drive in the hill suburbs of Dunedin. Our two toned Humber 80 had column change gears...glad I've never needed that skill...that car came after the Morris 8...Austin A 30...new Triumph Herald and before the two consecutive Wolseley 16/60s. Then came the Japanese and later Korean tidal waves....never looked back...out of the rear window of our 2004 Honda Edix.
My first car was a 1953 Hillman Minx Mk V assembled in Melbourne. It had been the family car; before mandatory seat belts we fitted 7 on the 2 bench seats. It was a real character car; it had flipper indicators, 3 on the tree, high beam button on the floor, and had to be driven with what I called 50% horsepower, 50% willpower. In my custody its shortcomings were soon obvious: it had an iron block, an aluminium head, and a copper sandwich gasket that was designed to fail regularly through galvanic action. When I finally let it go, the head had been shaved to the point it had a 13:1 compression. The petrol line was a copper tube strapped to the head. The resulting vapour locks in the Adelaide heat were dramatic and resulted in a 2 hour wait while everything cooled off. On weekend trips to the Adelaide south coast, I had to catch two sets of traffic lights at speed to be sure of sufficient momentum to climb Tapleys Hill. Near the end of life, it would only start with the crank handle. I had a process that involved a brick on the accelerator and an open driver's window. I cranked the engine, rushed to the door, threw the crank into the passenger side footwell and got in just in time to kick away the brick before the engine revved its guts out. The car wouldn't idle and had to be kept alive by tickling the throttle. This was an invitation to a drag race. Once on Hindley St I stalled off the line and had to execute the starting procedure in front of the Saturday night crowd: not cool. Its reliable touring speed was 40 mph. We went to Pondalowie for a weekend, and with no surf decided to return and go to the drive-in (we could see the O'Halloran's Hill screen across the gulf). I calculated we needed to travel at 45 mph to make the show. We didn't make it: blew the head just out of Warooka, pushed it into the local garage; the owner let us use his tools to take off the head and re-glue the gasket. We had no mechanical skill & it took much of the night before it was mobile. The timing was too advanced and the car would only run at high speed. Unfortunately the traffic was jammed up at Pt Wakefield and limited to 30 mph, so I slipped the clutch most of the way with several stops to top up the radiator. Character defining stuff.
I live in Iran . The Hunter was assembled in here from 1965 untill 1995. Such a success it was here. Still we have them running . I bought one in 1983 and owned it for 20 years .
Sorry, Humber wasn't dropped along with Singer Motors in 1970. The Humber marque was dropped along with Hillman and Sunbeam in 1975. Sunbeam was re-introduced as the Chrysler Sunbeam in 1978. Sunbeam was never considered the stablemate to Hillman. The range was always Hillman as the basic car brand, followed by Singer, being a rival to Wolsley, whilst Sunbeam was a sporting range of sports saloons and cars. Humber was the top of the tree. The Sceptre was meant to be the new Rapier replacement, but was said to be to heavy, so it became the entry model Humber. Hope this helps.
My father was a 'Ford man' - he had a Mk 1 Consul, Anglia 105E, Mk 1 Cortina 'Super' Saloon, Mk 1 Cortina Estate and M II Capri. But then in the mid-70's he changed - as the Capri wasn't really big enough for our family. But instead of getting another Ford, he bought a Hillman Hunter! It was the very first non-Ford and the only second-hand car he ever bought! It was owned by his friend [who worked for the same company as senior mechanic]. It was midnight-blue and absolutely immaculate.
All those years ago when I was in primary school here in Australia, my mother had a Hillman Hunter. Although it was a little underpowered, it was fairly reliable.
We had humber, hillmans and singers in australia assembled by chrysler australia and simca's as well. I started at chrysler australia in april 1973, the last hillman hunter was built in 1972.
Lived in Maidstone in the 60s and early 70s, remember the art deco style Rootes Garage in the centre of the town opposite the bus station. Believe it still stands as a listed building.
I was a fireman in the 70's and while doing drills in the yard behind the fire station, which we shared with the police station, magistrates court, heath centre and library (the county buildings), a Hillman Avenger turned up and caught our attention. It didn't sound like a car of those times, and upon closer inspection we found it was a test bed for a Perkins diesel engine. In those days diesel engines were only used in larger vans and construction etc. As far as I'm aware it never became a production model and it was a few years before diesel engines were an option on cars for the general public, and even then they were noisy and not very responsive.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The Singer brand was ended in 1970 but the Humber brand continued as the Humber Sceptre until 1976 when the UK built Chrysler Alpine was launched. You missed the decision in 1970 to end the UK side of the 180/2Litre car and its V6 engine. This was a result of the losses and the cost overruns on moving the Arrow to Linwood and putting the Avenger into Ryton, this was so great there was no hope of profitability, so Chrysler stopped all investment in the UK till the management and workforce got a grip of things. They never did so there was no material investment until the Government bale out in 75. This did the following. 1. Put the Alpine into Ryton, 2. Moved a facelifted Avenger to Linwood. 3. Enabled a small car to be developed on the Avenger platform, the Sunbeam. 4. Introduced a new large van using a US Chrysler van body design, over a UK derived light truch chassis the Dodge 50. 5 the facelifted small van becoming the Dodge Space Van. Ryton was to have somewhat of a renaissance under Peugeot building 309, 405, 306 and 206.
Thanks for this Graham, such a good comment and bridges some gaps. I’ll pin this so others can see.
@fredyellowsnow7492 Hi it was essentially meant to be exactly that. But ended up with the Simca ohc engine, which was pretty good in its day and the rest of the powertrain taken from the Simca 1501. Had it existed as a UK car it would have used the 1800 (Brazilian block) version of the Avenger high cam engine and a 2000 and 2400 V6 engine of similar architecture to the Avenger engine.
As a Rootes Group Apprentice - their apprenticeship scheme was incredible and feel humble/grateful at the start they gave me after leaving school with no qualifications. A scheme sadly needed in our once great country.
Thank you, the Rootes Group is too often forgotten but made some great cars
The EEC(EU) had as much to do with the downfall of the British motor industry as bad management and strikes!
I learned to drive in my mum's Australian assembled Hillman Minx Series III b (1960). Rootes cars were well made and reliable. Engine components were weighed and sorted into sets by weight to produce well balanced units.
Rootes is yet another sad chapter in the frustrating story of the British automotive industry.
My father worked for Rootes in the 50’s and had his own distributorship in the 60’s. The picture you use of the Maidstone depot reminds me of the night we coasted down from Wrotham into Maidstone in a brand new Minx during Suez, and dad pulled into those pumps to fill up. Petrol was rationed and within seconds there was a queue out of sight. During the 60’s we had , used and holidayed in every type of Rootes car, mother had a Sunbeam Rapier 111 convertible , unbelievabley my father towing a caravan with a Singer Chamois all the way to Cornwall, with my parents and two children. Over 300 miles. Dad had to stop once or twice to let it cool down after long hills. I am now the proud owner of a Mk2 Super Minx with original 92k engine which we recently reshelled with std sized bearings.
One of only about 230 still on the roads.
I have so many memories. Rootes used to throw a Christmas party for the children at Maidstone with individual names presents and in the 50’s I met Reginald and William with my dad at the Coventry plant.
Love this channel.... My first car was a 1968 British racing green singer Vogue which I brought in the mid 1980s as I'd just passed my test.... MOT time came along and I found a huge hole in the passenger side footwell.... No problem I stuck a huge ceramic bathroom tile over the hole using body filler as a glue.... Then a thick coat of underseal... Job done 👍.... Got a fresh mot 😂😂... Unfortunately this lovely old singer Vogue came off worst in a battle with a huge Volvo estate car later in the year and went to the scrap yard in the sky..... Fond memories of the roots vogue with its lovely walnut dashboard... RIP
Really interesting and well researched piece ( as was your Marina vid). My dad had a Hillman Hunter which I was allowed to drive after I passed my test in 1972. Great 1725cc engine which was better than the 1600 Cortinas. Only problem , an aluminium head which warped. Understandably dad made me pay for re-skimming it (in the days when parts were repaired, not just replaced). A few years later I had a Marina “company car”. In hot weather you had to open the windows and put the heater on to stop the engine overheating and endure the drive on plastic seats! Not quite such good old days!
I worked at Ryton in the early 70s, making Avengers. We emigrated to Australia shortly after, endless strikes drove us crazy.
Thank you Tom for the great work on the history of Rootes Group.
My dad when he was alive used to talk to me about the Avenger he had in between his Austin/Morris’s, and where I worked in Colinton an employee used to drive her Hilman Imp to/from work which had a lot of work done on it.
I work for Arnold Clark and at Linwood on the railway bridge you can still see the writing Talbot home of the avenger and sunbeam greetings from Scotland 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
I used to work for BR&ScotRail. We had an old DMU to learn the route from Falkirk Grahamston via Cumbernauld to Glasgow QSt when Ravenscraig&Gartcosh steelworks were still there.
I used to work for Arnold Clark
@@matthewc.419 when and where I’ve worked for Arnold 30 years in various locations but I’m currently in East Kilbride
@@ianstewartorr8455 down in Salford from 2008 to 2011
@@matthewc.419 Manchester I’ve only been in the airport going on holiday
As I said before, only the young can take our history forward. Thank you.
My first car in 1973 was a 1966 Singer Chamois (Imp) followed a year later by a 1966 Sunbeam Alpine Which I managed to keep going until 2009! Dad had a last model Minx followed by an Avenger GL at the time I got the Chamois. All of them were great cars.
Still regularly driving my 1965 Singer Chamois!
Big fan of the Rootes Group here; I've owned several Rootes-era Singers, and presently have a 1938 Talbot Ten.
What is troubling as that this was a pattern more or less followed by the entire UK car manufacturing industry, the one common factor of course being the British governments involvement and decision making!
and the endless strikes
My parents had a Superminx and an Avenger, the Avenger was that good that they kept it 11 years, very sad loss to an incredible group of companies
Brilliant video, have an uncle who worked in development at Ryton and their test track at Wellesborne air field, many happy memories of being driven around the test track in Rapier H120’s and Hunter GT’s and GLS’s. Always came back with a big grim after he had chucked one of them about on the test track or a quick run down the Fosse Way with other cars from the development department racing each other. Very happy days. Even got to go in the Hunter London to Sydney rally car.
I have never owned a Rootes Group car, but my grandad owned a Hillman Avenger, with the hockey stick rear lights. At that time I was only learning to drive but grandad used to take me to Smeatharpe Aerodrome where I could drive. And that car was just brilliant to drive.
My mum and dad had a Hillman Imp which the gearbox went on the old A1 before I was born,their next car before they went Japanese was the avenger which was a nice and reliable car,I’m originally from Maidstone so im gonna have to do some digging now but from what my mum tells me she remembers routes limited dealer back then in Maidstone it ran for over 100 years 1913-2019 wow cheers Tom more happy memories 👍😉💪
Fantastic mini-documentary. Well done. You should be proud of yourself!
As an employee of the Rootes Group in the 1960's in the design department, I was acutely aware of the situation that was transpiring with the government and the Chrysler corporation. With regards to Linwood the government reneged on the amount of money they had promised when the second amount was due to be given! This had a dramatic effect on the progress and development of the IMP. Making it impossible to stick to the opening date which had been set on the assumption the money was forthcoming. Added to that was the date the Duke of Edinburgh had was fixed and not negotiable!
When Chrysler entered the scene they had no knowledge of the UK market and further did not understand the idea of the IMP. This was their and Rootes downfall. They were far too interested in big land yachts than small economic cars for UK roads.
The Arrow range was well on in its development with many pre-production vehicles out on test, both at MIRA & abroad, prior to Chrysler getting involved! The Avenger was at the final design stage also prior to Chrysler taking control! The Company under the Rootes family would have survived had they been given the money promised by successive governments which did not materialize!
Yes the Avenger shape & style by Roy Axe was finalized in November 1965 .the next year or so concentrated on the mechanicals, as they weren't carry over designs or parts as per the Arrow; so the Avengers development had been under Rootes with little input from Chrysler USA, cash may have boosted it's final stages by 1968
Hi
I learned to drive (in 1985)in a 1975 Hillman Avenger 1.3 dl, which cost £125
And my father always told me of his sunbeam talbot 3l he had
My aunt opened the rear passenger door before my father had stopped the car, just before a lamppost which took the door of the hinges and wrote the car off
Thanks for all the great videos and insight into the British car industry
😃👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Well done, great potted history. I could have savoured each step over a 60min special.
I'm going to be doing something similar to that, a lot of people have said they'd like a longer one so I'm going to be covering these eras in a bit more detail.
My father was the Roots Dealer for the country of Nicaragua in Central America. I remember vehicles from 1954 till the end as Chrisley with the Avenger. I remember the Commer van. We had 90% of the taxi industry in the country. I can still remember completing the legal size paper to order each car with the selection of options. I remember driving the Humber Imperial with the overdrive transmission. The aromal of the leather still in my memories. I'm happy to know your channel about Hillman. I remember the promotion of Rallies with the IMP . Thank you for your documental
I sat for my driving test in early 1969 in an Australian assembled Arrow, a mere 3 months after Andrew Cowan won the Lodon to Sydney Marathon in an Arrow. Serious street cred at the time. 4 on the floor, all synchro gearbox, robust 1725 cc inline 4, rear wheel drive. An absolute belter.
My first car after I passed my test at 17 in 1985 was a 1965 Hillman Superminx. Had to use the starting handle a few times which was a scary operation. Loved the floor footswitch for high/low beam headlights....
My dad's first lorry was a Commer 2 stroke with a blower and my uncle had a Hillman Avenger painted like starsky and hutches car and we had a Hillman imp in our garage for years which I use to play in
Great description of the many facts of the rise and reasons for the collapse of this group. Excellent work.👍👍😊😊
I've been wanting to relearn a lot of stuff I've forgotten over the years about rooted group cars.
This certainly cleared things up and gave plenty of lovely new bits, spot on 👌
Good history lesson.
What about covering the Talbot Sunbeam Lotus. Great car with a top rallying background
good insight. always happy to see the younger generation like yourself and Ed at TwinCam digging up the history of our once world dominant car industry.
many on the right blame the British workforce for the collapse of this industry but time and time again the downfall started with poor decisions, a lack of foresight, complacency and plain penny-pinching by senior management.
I loved the avenger when I was a kid in the early 80’s… there was something about the L shape rear lights I liked. Kinda like the cortina mk1, I liked that because of the rear lights 🤷♂️
Both cars had very distinctive styling , just think Roy Axe who was the designer of the Avenger finalized the style & shape of the Avenger in November 1965 , just when the MK1 Cortina was selling like ' hot cakes' & the MK2 prototypes were being road testing for sale in 1966. The Hunter beat it though as it was first to go on sale in August :66. The 'Bow back ' rear window of the Avenger saloon is similar to that of the MK4 Zephyr / Zodiac & the Saab 99 that launched in 1968.
Same here, very distinctive rear end styling, the days when you could tell the model of car just by the shape of the rear lights!
I always liked Avengers.....My Grandma thought the name was stupid.....
My dad worked at Rootes Linwood and I still remember going to the Christmas parties as a child, in the factory canteen, where Santa would arrive in a fleet of cars (with his elves) to give presents to all the children.
Some of the best presents I ever had and still a great memory to this day ❤
My Aunt ran a Hillman Hunter in Australia in the 1970s. Chrysler Australia assembled them from CKD kits - they were quite popular, being tough and mechanically straight forward.
I'm surprised you haven't mentioned the Iranian Paykan (Hunter) - the kits sent to Iran were for many years Britain's largest automotive export. Production continued into the new millenia. An Iranian former colleague drove one from Tehran to Munich in 1979
NZ was a very strong market for Rootes products too! Same dealer network marketed DB tractors nationwide...
The Hillman Hunter was popular as a taxi cab in Iran back in the 1970's & 1980's and into the 1990's. Our local dentist had a Humber Super Snipe in the early 1970's, I still remember the plush seats and the real wood grained dashboard. Also our schools music teacher, nicknamed "Clutch" had a Hillman Imp in the late 1960's, she used to rev the guts out of it on the steep uphill grade out of the school carpark and ride the clutch, she was in her 60's back then. Memories, now all we have is Japanese, South Korean and Chinese rubbish in the lower priced Australian car market. Great video and well researched, most enjoyable.
The hillman hunter was build in Irán by Iran National Motor company under the name Paykan and continued after the 1979 revolution....
@@Canguterio Thank you for that.
@@Canguterio
Until 2005.
@@petersargeant1555 yes indeed forgot to mention that, replaced by the Samand built also by Irankhodro formerly known as Iran National Motor company based on the also build by them Peugeot 405....
Great video Tom. Really enjoyed that. It’s incomprehensible that the second largest car in the UK should literally fade away given some of the iconic brands they owned and some outstanding designs (thinking of the Audax cars here). However, in automotive, standing still is effectively going backwards such is the pace of this business, and the reason why, Saab, Rover, and many others (thought too big to fail) are no longer with us.
Wait till VW fails.
@@yuglesstubeWhy will they fail?
@timgriggs8592 Because it has a 200 billion dollar debt, it's energy costs have risen sharply, and the Chinese are making serious inroads to it best markets.
I am not two minutes into your video and you mention a Rover SD1 my all-time favourite car of all-my time, though I paid dearly for this particular motor love affair! My dad drove Hillman's and Humber's so you have my attention. Thank you very much for this intriguing post!😀
After seeing several of your specials about the glorytime and demise of the British car industry I must say…very well made! In depth, lots of facts, non biased.
Best regards from the Netherlands
Tom I really and thoroughly enjoyed this one as I was a former proud owner of rally Avenger which I rallied in club and international events. For me it had a better located back end than the Escort, and Des O'Dell, who ran the competition division was brilliant who on one international even sent us key items to get through scrutineering all the way from Linwood! You have certainly cornered the market in automobile history videos and I did notice that the edits were less brutal that help loose the frenetic pace of the early ones. Well done. I love 'em!
Rob
Remember a chap I worked with years ago who was originally from Brinklow , just down the road from Ryton upon Dunsmore.
Served in the latter part of the 2WW,then returned home to Brinklow.
On returning home he got a job on the production line at Ryton,the stories he relayed of the production line being deliberately sabotaged so the shift could finish early on a Friday were unreal.
Ultimately he couldn't put up with these shenanigans and left the factory.
Right up to the time the whole complex was demolished some of the original buildings that fronted the adjacent A45 still sported their WW2 camouflage.
Fast forward to the present I ended up working on the site of Rootes whilst it was being redeveloped.
All very sad from how I remember it.
Interesting video, thanks for posting.
We had a large GM plant where I grew up in california, and I heard a lot of stories from my sister and her friends who worked there. All through the 70's the same stories, strikes, intentionally messing up the line, sabotaging cars, just screwing around in general, after all the union was telling them it was fine, what could the company do? That plant was closed by the early 80's and sat unused until Toyota decided to do a "partnership" with GM to reopen the plant, but this time it was Toyota's rules and the union couldn't play games. They looked at everyone's history there and only took back people with a good work history, and so many people she knew who thought they'd be working, weren't, and the union was powerless. Eventually there was little GM involvement and no GM cars built there, and when the GM bankruptcy and government bailout of the union went through, Toyota was out. The plant now produces Tesla cars and has no union.
The NUUMI plant in Freemont. I remember it well.@@Oldbmwr100rs
@@Oldbmwr100rs Thank you for your reply.
The deliberate deindustrialization in American mirrors our own situation in the UK and is a deep dark subject when one goes digging to find out why!
Bethlehem Steel Corporation in America is a perfect illustration and a tradegy for all who relied on it for employment.
Johnston Sweepers Ltd based in southern England opened a manufacturing facility in California I think, to supply the American market,as you state same shenanigans, with a workforce more intent on sunbathing than working plus other issues with the plant .
Eventually the plant was closed and the Johnston group of companies which had suffered serious financial hardship because of California were broken up and sold off.
Johnston Engineering Ltd survives but under the banner of Bucker ,a Swiss asset stripping Globalist outfit.
God video as always. One small thing - the Talbot Arizona wasn't dropped in favour of the Peugeot 309, it became the Peugeot 309, your picture of the Arizona is a dead ringer for the production 309. Basically it was renamed at the last minute. Used the centre section of the 205.
From one Tom to another, great video! I believe the reason Plymouth dropped the Cricket is because the captive import subcompact Dodge was selling at the same time, the Mitsubishi-made Colt, had far fewer customer complaints and warranty claims. Thus, for the 1974 and '75 model years, Canadian market Crickets became rebadged Colts, while the name was changed to Plymouth Colt for 1976 (Weirdly, U.S. Chrysler-Plymouth dealers would be without *any* subcompacts in the 1974 and '75 model years, right when they needed one the most!).
Yes the Cricket would have been just the car to beat the sales of Datsun, Honda , Mazda, but it was the surge in sales particularly in 1972 of the Toyota Corolla that cought Chrysler asleep , Ryton in Coventry couldn't make enough to export ,as the Avenger sales were steadily rising in Britain,, especially as the estate & 2 doors were launched in 72. Had they assembled LHD models in the US it might have been more of a success. The Japanese learned this in the mid to late 70s building models in the US & laterley in Australia & UK .
Great Documentary thank you (:
Thanks for being here Darren
The first car I remember being in the Gatland family was a 'D'-reg blue Hillman Minx. I definitely remember bringing my newborn brother back from hospital in it after he was born. The next car we got after that was an 'M'-reg green MK3 Cortina GXL which I loved to bits 😊
Lovely memories, good to hear it, especially the Minx being a part of such a special part of your life.
Friend's dad used to race Hillman Imp. I was surprised at seeing that wee sideways engine in the boot!😊
One of those rare Sunbeam Tigers was sold to a man in my neighbourhood here in Finland... It was an eye opener to me. And a Mexico that guy next door had. My father drove Maxi and Marina... 😖
Hi I believe you have missed the sunbeam rapier a worthy competier to the mk 1 capri often overlooked and under rated good video all the same 😊
I has a 1962 Humber Super Snipe Limousine ( sliding privacy glass and flagstaff on the hood/bonnet) version. It was on diplomatic service overseas before coming back to the UK in 1976 on a P plate. I picked it up in 88 and soon after the age related plates became available from DVLA- I got a 1962 plate. Loved that car, but parts particularly body panels were rare. I sold the car mid 90s.
Very interesting video, thank you Tom! 👏👏👍
I learnt to drive in a F reg 1968 Hillman Estate. It was the family car. I then had it as my first car. Great car and masses of space. Had the 1725 cc engine so went well. I thought Humber went beyond 1970. Enjoyed the video many thanks. I went to Ryton recently and the factory has gone.
We have fond memories of the Hillman and Singer cars. We lived in New Zealand from 1961 to 1965. We bought a 1956 Hillman Minx in 1961 although in NZ it was badged as Humber 80. It was a beautiful car which we kept until we came back to England. During our time in NZ, I worked for a while as a driver for Todd motors which was Rootes production plant in Lower Hutt near Wellington. I was there at the time when Chrysler were showing off their gas turbine car, and was privileged to see it close up although I didn't get a ride in it. Shortly after returning to this country we bought a Singer Vogue which was one of the best cars I've ever had, and still miss it now.
I started work at Rootes Maidstone in 2004, was a Peugeot main dealer, name was later changed to Robins and day, a few years ago, company was relocated to a new site, the old site is being redeveloped, but some parts are listed, like the the frontage, and the ramp inside
top vid as always keep going
Thanks Richard, I certainly will, only problem is you learn how great some of these cars are and end up with a massive car wish list!
In 1968 December, a Hillman Hunter won the London to Sydney Marathon (Andrew Cowan). The next year Chrysler Australia produced the Hillman Hunter GT, with 1725cc Sunbeam Rapier engine and Twin Webber carbies, wooden fully instrumented dash, rocker switches, metallic purple body, vinyl roof and reclining front seats.......boy could that fly. Was my second car and there were lots of places in South Australia where you could really let the car rip, on many occasions I passed the 100mph mark on the speedo. Loved that car, until my missus was involved in an accident (not her fault).....so got a Datsun 180B
Yes,. That was a very tough rally where even Ford, BMC & Volvo were struggling. pity Rootes didn't ' cash in ' on the Hunters success with the GLS launch in say,1969 instead of waiting till '72. It would have been a competitive car against the sometimes temperamental & fragile MK2 Cortina Lotus ( by then fully assembled by Ford at Dagenham) The Hunter was successful in touring cars. Circa 72 to 75.
I also had a Hunter GT ( I'm also from South Aust.) And I agree with everything you said. They were a pocket rocket and much underrated. I still reckon that wooden dash with all its round guages was one of the best ever.☺
Great video, thank you. I never realised Rootes were as big as they were at their height. A sad and rapid demise. I had a few Hillmans and Singers in my teens and twenties and enjoyed them all. As a child I loved the arrow shape of the Hillman Hunter, soooo cool. Pleasant surprise to see it again on the Peugeot 405. Nice feature on the '69 Singer Vogue I had, apart from the reclining seats, was manually dimmable pilot lights. A little mask slid over the lens to lessen the brightness of say the main beam warning light. I suppose the Sceptre would have had that too. And don't forget the handbrake in the door well not on the transmission tunnel! The quirkiness of the Citroen I now drive reminds me strongly of those cars.
My Dad had Rootes Group company cars from the early 60s to 1970. He had two Hillman Minx's then a Singer Gazelle which I thought was fantastic with it's rectangular headlights, and a Hillman Hunter in about 1970. He then got promoted and moved onto Rover cars but I will always remember the Rootes cars of my childhood ❤
Very interesting video. Ma's first car was a 54 Hillman Minx. She only kept it 4 years, but she accumulated a good number of miles, as she was commuting to her job as a teacher some 50 miles away from where she was living. She used to say that it would purr in the rain, but develop asthma with the first snowflake. Considering that this was in Ontario, Canada, the car wheezed through 6 months of the year.
I had a mid sixties Singer Gazelle and although it was a unreliable rust bucket i loved its style
My dad was a huge Rootes fan, and had Minx's , a Super Minx, a Humber Scepter and also my mum's Imp. I had two Avengers and a Sunbeam Stilleto .
Like wise.My father had Hillman minx's, 4 in total spanning 1954 -1983. He passed his test '54 next day bought a brand new Hillman minx £650 cash then drove from Newcastle to Bournemouth for a family holiday. No motorways ,hardly saw another car and the AA men on their motor bikes saluting as they passed. When driving was a pleasure.Happy Days !
@rogernevin7461 My dad's last Minx was a 69 model bought new. Three years ago, we had to sell it to pay for his dementia care. Fortunately, it went to a nice guy who keeps us informed about it.
Dad looked after it like his baby
Great video, must have taken a lot of research to help this video made, my dad had a singer vogue estate, it was a 1967 e reg, i loved it as a kid with the big grille and little covers over the indicator lights on the dash to me it was like a rolls Royce, the bad bit was the 1725 engine, it dropped big end on a regular basis, and i remember the coffee like sludge when you took the oil cap off,,,
Thanks Adrian appreciate it! The Singer Vogue is a fantastic car.
This would have been 1985 so (18/19yo) I'm on my third car.
Now I liked the car I had (1978 Golf/Rabbit) that was "MY" First car.
A week or so later I'm heading home, pass by what was a decaying gas station, and now a used car lot loaded with weird cars (his words).
They were downright weird, things like a street legal King Midget., a Crosley, bunch of Saabs including an orange Sonnet.
Behind them was a trio of British cars, they were all painted the same rich burgundy, the same tan vinyl trim level.
I was transfixed, Hilman coupe GT, a less attractive coupe, and a smart looking sedan.
Hesitated a bit too long, and a lecture from dad about RWD cars in the winter.
I ultimately passed, drove the rabbit for years, that was my first fun to drive car.
Ahh, memories.
Thank you for another charming video.
You're doing a great job young man.
I live near Linwood and remember the huge car plant that was there. I also past my test in a Talbot Sunbeam - great wee car 👍
My first I brought after I passed my driving test was a Hillman Avenger. Loved it.
Excellent video ! Do you remember the Sunbeam Rapier , sold in the U.S. as the Sunbeam Alpine GT ? It looked similar to the '66 Plymouth Barracuda.
The Rapier was one of the Hunter/Arrow family - a good looker, and in H120 form with Webers was a good mover!
Nice to see you at the british motor museum at the unveiling of the 3 prototype cars
I did my apprenticeship in the Humber body experimental dept as a styling modelmaker, I made the perspex Avenger rear light clusters for the first fibreglass mockup. Later went into body engineering design and in 1997 bought the company name "Chrysler Limited" which I kept until 2 years ago.
My 1st car was a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful 1967 "Sunbeam Rapier Fastback" in Sherwood Forest Green - (F-Reg')
Always did draw favourable comments over it's inherent good looks, was super reliable & NEVER let me down.
I wuz a proud owner especially being a teenager & it meant I didn't have to drive Mum & Dad's "Standard 10"
Mum bought a GORGEOUS Rover P.6 with the V.8 3500cc engine (M-Reg) - Lovely cars & happy days (hindsight)
You did ask for comments? I worked in a Rootes dealership in the 60s and early 70s, they were really nice cars. In the video there is little mention of the Rapiers with Holbay engines, the Alpines (though the Tiger is mentioned briefly), or the Sunbeam Talbot 90s that were so successful in the Monte Carlo Rallies. A final point, and please take this as constructive criticism not a complaint, your delivery of the commentary is much too fast and high pitched; slow it down a little, the way it is presented makes it seem like you're just reeling off a load of facts and don't really care about what happened!
Totally agree with your comments. I too worked at Rootes group in Birmingham when the Avenger was released. I have owned a Hillman Minx, Hillman Hunter, Sunbeam rapier and a Hillman Imp. Favourite car was the Sunbeam Alpine which was not really mentioned in this episode and yes, it does sound like you are just reeling off loads of facts from a book.
So what was the outcome of your strikes?
As kids, our Dad had a second hand Minx which was a reliable family car. In 1967 he bought a new Minx and that also went well. Later he bought a blue Avenger but not as good as smaller inside. He then switched to bigger Ford Cortina.
The last ever Talbot was the Talbot Express, which was the Peugeot J5/Citroen C25/Fiat Ducato Van, all built in Italy. There was however a bus version called the Talbot triaxle that was converted at the old Rootes plant on the Humber road in Coventry. This was in 1990
I liked the way Rootes persevered with the pillar-less coupe format as the Sunbeam Rapier. Only Mercedes continued with this. The last shape Rapier was a fantastic design - a great shame that so few survive. My uncle had an early Humber Sceptre. Although its mechanicals were fairly mundane, its interior quality and equipment levels (for the day, including overdrive) were fantastic. The cockpit-like fascia design of the Sceptre still looks impressive today.
Thanks for a terrific video.
I was a big fan of the Arrow range of cars when growing up and persuaded my Dad to buy a Sunbeam Vogue estate (they were badged as such for a short time after the Singer brand was dropped) replacing our somewhat frumpy Austin 1800.
I thought the Hillman Avenger was so cool when it came out partly because the TV adverts used the theme tune from The Avengers series.
All told, a sad story of decline of a great company and manufacturer of some wonderful cars.
Having owned (in my early days of driving), 4 Rootes cars in straight succession, i wish I was in situation to drive any one of them as a classic. The first was 1957, series 1 Minx Convertible with the 1390 engine. It was tired and abused by the time i had it in 1967 but nowadays would get a full resto. The next was a 58/59, series 3 saloon, complete with Brighton registration. This one cost me £20 and I ran it for 3 years. It had the 1494 engine.
Next was a very tidy 3C saloon run from 1971 until 1973. During my ownership i reconditioned the 1600 engine. During the down time, I bought a 3A estate to keep me on the road, another bargain for £25, which I sold again when the 3C was up and running again.
All of them except the 3C had a column change and these were light, a joy to use and kept that bench front seat free for an extra passenger in the front. Unlike Ford and Vauxhall at the the time, they were also 4 speed. Being still between 18 and early twenties at the time. I used to manage clutchless changes, like all the boy racers on the move quite easily, which considering the mechanical joints involved in the linkage, says a lot about Rootes design.
I went all cortina mad after my 3C until the nineties.
My only wish, cars with the same integrity were still available today. The demise of Rootes was the beginning of the end for British car manufacture. Chrysler totally wrecked what was Rootes. Shame. 😢
great video my dad owned a 1960s hillman minx we went everywhere in it, sadly no photos but i remember being a dark green colour. i was only 7 at the time. he sold it due to head gasket issues and bought aother car think was a wolsley 1800 automatic. great videos
One of my Dad's early cars was the Sunbeam Rapier in the early 60's quite fast back in the day
Sunbeam still has a bit of a presence where I live in Ohio. There was a Rootes dealer in Dayton back in the sixties and my dad’s friend actually founded the Sunbeam Alpine Owners Club Of America (SAOCOA) here in the early 2000s. I’m now on my second Alpine. A 1967 Series 5 in British Racing Green. It’s such a nice car to drive and much more roomy than a Triumph TR4 and MG B.
I do love an imp. Learnt to drive in one when I was about 9. My dad picked it up after it had sat in a garage for 20 years for £25. Can’t get one for that now!
Certainly can’t, lovely cars!
My Grandfather worked for them in Maidstone from the 1920s until Luton in 1963, in management he saw them become Chrysler UK. In 1945 Rootes were the first to be offered Volkswagen, to which the family said it was junk. The Labour government forced them through tax incentives, to partially construct cars in Birmingham area, ship to Scotland, then return for competition in Birmingham. All those Scots knew what to do was to strike … My uncle bought a dealership in 1964 and was killed in an IMP. No seatbelts, no collapsable steering column, inept management from mis 1960s onward; continual labour stoppages for no reason. We had a Sunbeam Rapier from 1957, that was constantly in for repairs. One night in 1961 my father went to start it and the engine caught fire. Made the tv news in northern Ontario, as little kids we thought it was funny to see a car burn.
My firts car in 1973 was a 1961 Hillman Minx with rusty sills and offside front wing. but mechanically very sound.
Sounds like a good place to start David.
In 1971 I purchased a used Sunbeam Alpine GT fastback . Not a lot of power but beautiful interior and distinctive. Finally had to give it up as parts were so hard to get. in the US.
My first car was a 1965 Singer Chamois. I loved that little car. Oxford Blue with a white stripe down the side, blue leather interior (probably Vinyl)
My first car was a Singer Chamois, I went on to buy a Chamois Coupe, I enjoyed them both, I taught my girlfriend( now my wife)to drive in the coupe in the mid 70’s. We used to have the Coventry climax engine in portable fire pumps carried on the Green Goddess Fire Appliance when I was in the Army Fire Service, a good little engine.
My first car was a Hillman Super Minx 1600 Sport. Really nice car, but heavy and a bit thirsty.
But taken it's age in memory, it was well builded and reliable. And funny, that you'll forget about other cars you have owned, but never the first one.
The Imp, with its rear engine, could be described as a poor man’s Porsche 911, as it was raced with much success in British saloon car races in the late 1960s and early 1970s.
Well narrated 👍🏻 my parents had an Avenger and a 4 speed overdrive Hunter (stunning interior for the time) Grand Lux I think 🤔
Thanks Stevie!
I owned a 1961 IIIB Minx as my first car in 1974 and then got a 1970 2A Hunter in 1976. Later I owned a 1961 IIIB Humber 80 ( a badge engineered Hillman Minx built alongside the regular Minx in the NZ market that allowed Humber dealers to sell a cheaper car), as a classic. Between my Father, grandfather and I we probably owned 13 or so Hillmans / Humbers from the 50's Mark models through Audax to Arrow cars.
An excellent history lesson Tom.
Yep: I had a 1960's Sunbeam Alpine in the early 70's which was great fun, if a little rusty. It was often referred to as a "Husky GT" because the chassis was a Hillman Husky (a shortened Minx) with a twin carb engine. My girlfriend (who latter became my wife) and I had a fantastic trouble-free trip to Italy in 1973 in it. The car I really wanted was of course a Sunbeam Tiger but the insurance company were at the time not too happy due to my age. Chrysler were also not too happy with a US-Ford engine in a Rootes car, so that car was discontinued (Not mentioned in your video). Years later, I did end up with an MGB V8 which was also a British sports car with a US V8 (Buick) and I still have it. The only alternative would have been an AC Cobra;-)
My grandad was an ex REME tank recovery specialist and then worked for a Rootes dealer as a mechanic. He was as adamant as my dad who worked for GM about buying their cars.
He had a Hillman hunter which at the time I sort of liked. The he ended up with a peugeot 205.
My father worked for Chrysler in Australia in the ‘70s, I remember a binder my father gave me which had “Rootes Group” embossed on it. I asked my father about it who explained who they were.
Excellent video production, featuring many cars I had only heard about, never driven! The end appeared to begin with a strike. (Will the unions ever learn?)
Around around 1962 my mother learner to drive in the hill suburbs of Dunedin. Our two toned Humber 80 had column change gears...glad I've never needed that skill...that car came after the Morris 8...Austin A 30...new Triumph Herald and before the two consecutive Wolseley 16/60s.
Then came the Japanese and later Korean tidal waves....never looked back...out of the rear window of our 2004 Honda Edix.
My first car was a 1953 Hillman Minx Mk V assembled in Melbourne. It had been the family car; before mandatory seat belts we fitted 7 on the 2 bench seats. It was a real character car; it had flipper indicators, 3 on the tree, high beam button on the floor, and had to be driven with what I called 50% horsepower, 50% willpower. In my custody its shortcomings were soon obvious: it had an iron block, an aluminium head, and a copper sandwich gasket that was designed to fail regularly through galvanic action. When I finally let it go, the head had been shaved to the point it had a 13:1 compression. The petrol line was a copper tube strapped to the head. The resulting vapour locks in the Adelaide heat were dramatic and resulted in a 2 hour wait while everything cooled off. On weekend trips to the Adelaide south coast, I had to catch two sets of traffic lights at speed to be sure of sufficient momentum to climb Tapleys Hill. Near the end of life, it would only start with the crank handle. I had a process that involved a brick on the accelerator and an open driver's window. I cranked the engine, rushed to the door, threw the crank into the passenger side footwell and got in just in time to kick away the brick before the engine revved its guts out. The car wouldn't idle and had to be kept alive by tickling the throttle. This was an invitation to a drag race. Once on Hindley St I stalled off the line and had to execute the starting procedure in front of the Saturday night crowd: not cool. Its reliable touring speed was 40 mph. We went to Pondalowie for a weekend, and with no surf decided to return and go to the drive-in (we could see the O'Halloran's Hill screen across the gulf). I calculated we needed to travel at 45 mph to make the show. We didn't make it: blew the head just out of Warooka, pushed it into the local garage; the owner let us use his tools to take off the head and re-glue the gasket. We had no mechanical skill & it took much of the night before it was mobile. The timing was too advanced and the car would only run at high speed. Unfortunately the traffic was jammed up at Pt Wakefield and limited to 30 mph, so I slipped the clutch most of the way with several stops to top up the radiator. Character defining stuff.
I live in Iran . The Hunter was assembled in here from 1965 untill 1995. Such a success it was here. Still we have them running . I bought one in 1983 and owned it for 20 years .
Sorry, Humber wasn't dropped along with Singer Motors in 1970. The Humber marque was dropped along with Hillman and Sunbeam in 1975. Sunbeam was re-introduced as the Chrysler Sunbeam in 1978. Sunbeam was never considered the stablemate to Hillman. The range was always Hillman as the basic car brand, followed by Singer, being a rival to Wolsley, whilst Sunbeam was a sporting range of sports saloons and cars. Humber was the top of the tree. The Sceptre was meant to be the new Rapier replacement, but was said to be to heavy, so it became the entry model Humber. Hope this helps.
It does thank you,
My father was a 'Ford man' - he had a Mk 1 Consul, Anglia 105E, Mk 1 Cortina 'Super' Saloon, Mk 1 Cortina Estate and M II Capri. But then in the mid-70's he changed - as the Capri wasn't really big enough for our family.
But instead of getting another Ford, he bought a Hillman Hunter! It was the very first non-Ford and the only second-hand car he ever bought! It was owned by his friend [who worked for the same company as senior mechanic]. It was midnight-blue and absolutely immaculate.
I always loved the Super Minx Convertible. That one at 0:07 was still taxed in 2017 so still ought to exist. At least I hope so.
All those years ago when I was in primary school here in Australia, my mother had a Hillman Hunter. Although it was a little underpowered, it was fairly reliable.
We had humber, hillmans and singers in australia assembled by chrysler australia and simca's as well. I started at chrysler australia in april 1973, the last hillman hunter was built in 1972.
Lived in Maidstone in the 60s and early 70s, remember the art deco style Rootes Garage in the centre of the town opposite the bus station. Believe it still stands as a listed building.
I was a fireman in the 70's and while doing drills in the yard behind the fire station, which we shared with the police station, magistrates court, heath centre and library (the county buildings), a Hillman Avenger turned up and caught our attention.
It didn't sound like a car of those times, and upon closer inspection we found it was a test bed for a Perkins diesel engine. In those days diesel engines were only used in larger vans and construction etc.
As far as I'm aware it never became a production model and it was a few years before diesel engines were an option on cars for the general public, and even then they were noisy and not very responsive.