The last Humber Sceptre was a variation on the 'Arrow' cars, not a rebadged Avenger. The Avenger started life as a Hillman, became a Chrysler, then a Talbot. It was also badged in the USA as a Plymouth, and was built in Argentina as a VW. The Arrow Cars, e.g. the Hillman Hunter lived on in Iran as the Paykan (or maybe Peykan), originally sold as CKD kits, and the mechanicals were put into the Peugeot 405 body too. Great and interesting video as always.
The Avenger having its final run at the VW factory in Argentina, is the ironic end to an old story: Immediately after World War 2, Lord William Rootes had the opportunity to purchase the Volkswagen company, but declined because he thought the Beetle was too noisy & had no future.
@@VincentLander And warranty claims for the Japanese cars were a tiny fraction of the British ones, leading to the latter quickly being phased out in favor of the Plymouth Arrow (Mitsubishi Lancer Celeste).
@@nlpnt In Canada (I'm Canadian), after the Avenger-based Cricket left the market, Plymouth dealers got their own version of the Colt, sold as the Cricket.
I remember my Dad hit a kangaroo on the highway on the way to Adelaide in our 2 week old Mazda 626. We got a Hillman Hunter as a hire car for a week maybe and one exacly the same drove up next to us and were excited seeing the same car ... they were popular in Australia. I'd literally rather one now than these electronic plastic cvt nightmare cars around now!!
Yes as a kid collecting car numbers you could see what model was coming. Now they are all Tessie plastic clones. My mate had a Sunbeam Rapier, sadly it could not hold a candle to my Ford Cortina MK1 1500 GT. loved my Hellman Avenger I got later on. Had it for six years.
@@chuckmaddison2924 oh really? a boy in m,y school had one in 1990 I think it had been a family car before and he said it "had a cold" and would get better. poor damned car survived that long only to get treated like that
@@paulmiles6012 oh I've never owned one , there is a yellow Triumph 2500 sedan for sale dirt cheap in Melbourne somewhere but they drive like go karts. adding insult to injury the Mazda dealership traded in my parents Mk 2 Jaguar for the mazda 626 for a tiny amount of money!
I was born in Coventry in 1954. My father had a Humber Hawk, with a propensity to boil when driven on the, then, new and novel dual carriageways. My older brother had a Hillman Minx and later a Sunbeam Tiger. All suffered quickly with one common feature - RUST!
MR. JAMAICA Mon, I too am a JAMAICAN living here in the U.S. and I too remember the many DODGE AVENGERS and HILLMAN HUNTERS et al We had 'back in the day'... In high school, someone I knew had one of only maybe 3 HILLMAN HUNTER GLS that were brought in by MOTOR SALES Ltd in their Family... ROOTES had a lot of Roots😉... I like that "@kennedysingh3916"...and yes, XLNT Video🤙...
my first car was a Himp. really loved it. reliable cheap to run easy to work on and didn't sound like a bag of nails like many others did in that era. its only real downside were those drum brakes that faded out without much effort
@@thatcheapguy525 My first car also,out here in Oz in 67.....Loved it! The best thing about the fading brakes was that it taught you how to drive properly...especialy around the Blue Mountains in NSW where I grew up.
My first car was a 1973 Hillman Hunter 1725 super, bought with memories of my mum taking me to school in a arrow range Minx and my Grandfathers Hunter GLS , with the Holbay engine and twin Webber carbs it was probably as good as a Lotus Cortina , wish i had one now.
Memories… My grandmother was John Panks -Director of Rootes North American operations - personal secretary. As a young child in the 1960s, I remember all the great brochures that were around my grandparents house. My father drove a Hillman Minx in the early 1960s, despite the fact that he was working for General Motors. I bought my first British roadster in the early 1980s; a 1967 Sunbeam Alpine. It was a fun car that was remarkably reliable. As I got older I realized what an opportunity I missed by not talking to my grandmother about her memories of working for Rootes.
Back in the day in the West Indies we had so many wonderful English cars. Hillman Hunter was very well represented, alongside non Roots Cortinas and many other Fords, Holdens, Morris Minors and Marinas, Minis, Vauxhalls. Even a few MGs could be seen about. Miss those days man
A great video, thank you. I rememver the following from my school days in Lancashire: the school chaplain had a new Humber Super Snipe in 1963, my maths teacher a Singer Gazelle, and an aunt had a 1965 white Sunger Chamois, which like many others had cylinder head gasket problems. An uncle had a,Hiklman Husky van and another uncle had two Hillman Minx's. A potato distributor in Hull used to have what was belived to be the largest collection of Humber Super Snipe Limiusines and Saloons in the world. The collection was broken up about five years ago. Thank you again, keep up the good work.
Rootes had very stylish cars in the 50's and 60's and i think are under appreciated today, Seeing classic car auctions, their cars look lovely. A huge mistake was to make the Imp at Linwood, Which i think was by Government interference, It could have really rivaled the mini but it was late to the road and did cost more. Sunbeam Tiger was a lovely two seater sports car and James Bond's first car. My favourite was the Hillman Hunter, Yes a bit boring but was quite advanced when made first and had a new lease of life after its demise here when Iran bought the tooling and produced them there right up until in the early 2000's. Rootes were an understated brand, Built good cars but like so many, Made mistakes and sadly died. Another great video Tom. 👍
My wife's dad had a Hillman Hunter estate that I borrowed to collect some things from my mum's house, about 25 miles each way. The oil pressure light was on but he said it was a feature following the big ends being done. About 20 miles in and going up a hill it got slower and slower and there was a big knocking then a bang and a large smoke ring just as I crested the hill. I took it out of gear and coasted a mile and a half and parked it in a farm yard, then the oil all ran out. A conrod had gone and the farmer towed me to mums. I got a mate to take me to a scrap hard and I purchased the best looking replacemant engine. This turned out to be from a Sunbeam Rapier and had a different firing order so two cylinders were attempting to run backwards so I needed to replace the camshaft and loads of other stuff. Still that was better then when I replaced the sills on his Cortina and burnt it all out when the back seat caught fire.
A number of Hunter, Vogue (badged Sunbeam in Ireland), Avengers in the family and extended family. Imps too. A neighbour used to rally Imps in the 60s and ‘70s. Incidentally, one correction @10:22 - the Sceptre was based m on the Hunter, not the Avenger as stated. Anyway, Tom - a huuuuge undertaking to compress something like the convoluted Rootes history into 12 minutes! Bravo, young man ! ! 👍
Even at a mere 50 years old: Rootes/Chrysler and Talbot were a major brand in my childhood. My first best mate's mum had a Hillman Imp that would consistently overheat to the point where she was in ecstasy to receive one of the 1st MK3 Escorts to be seen in our home town of Wolverhampton . My mum would constantly drive me to school in different Chrysler and Talbot Avengers that were sales reps cars at the end of their leases where my dad was a manager. I loved the Avenger's styling throughout its entire history, but my mum would constantly moan that they were utter shite. Then further into the 80's my auntie turns up in a Talbot Horizon, which to me almost defines all chunky 80's styling of the era. Needless to say the Horizon very quickly rusted and fell apart within a few terms at school (didn't they all 🤣). But maybe solely because of styling or nostalgia, I am left with an 80's Talbot fetish (which I am currently seeking psychiatric help for 🤪). And one day dream of owning the brand's ultimate Unicorn.....A RHD 2.6SX Talbot Tagora..... GOD help me! ..I mean there must be a helpline or something for this kind of perversion!!! Great video Tom, keep em coming pls.
My late dad's first car was a Sunbeam Talbot. He and my late mum owned a Humber Sceptre many years before I was born. They also had a Talbot Horizon when I was young.
I had a hillman hunter royal it was 2 tone white with a gold coloured roof black leather seats it was automatic drove it everywhere it was a great car drove it to Melbourne and back to Sydney never broke down. Only once got petrol at Benalla water was in the petrol drove 5km broke down racv. Got me going again, he said you got petrol at this petrol station ⛽️ I said yes I was his 7th customer. He drained the tank clean up the su and fuel pump gave me full tank of fuel at another garage also got money back from the garage that had water in his storage tank. God bless the men and women who work with the road service what ever state you are in.
I bought a 'used' Talbot Matra Rancho in the early 1980's. With its fibreglass body I thought it would last for ever. Turns out that only the back was fibreglass. The rest of the bodywork was based on a Simca van built from cheap European steel. With 100,000 on the clock already combined with damp British weather its already badly rusted underside did not last long. I still loved that quirky six-seater, three-door car though.
I worked with a guy that served his time at Hillman. He was on the test track with a Commer van, a requirement for local councils, police etc was that it did 50MPH. He said they did everything in their power but couldn't manage it so they just altered all the speedos. While this was going on a little car kept zipping past them, a prototype Imp. I've had a Hunter and a few Imps and if another comes along I'll probably have another.
great video! fascinating history, i love the Rootes marque and my dear old dad had a few Rootes products when i was a child, first off he had a Hillman Super Minx, a wonderful two tone car, then he had a Hillman Hunter(i recall a head gasket blowing on the M6 once) and finally he had a Hillman Avenger, all wonderful cars which i have great memories of, i think that Rootes was arguably the best of all the volume manufacturers in the UK, it was truly a golden era the post war period and it is so sad to see how the marque just seemed to disappear, the Imp debacle was crucial, a better car than the Mini in so many ways, it should have been a roaring success but alas it wasn't and its failure contributed hugely to the eventual demise of Rootes
Great video highlighting the great British brands that were. In about 1962, my dad bought his first car, a 1946 Hillman Minx, black, as most cars of that vintage were, paid £10 for it. I remember the front suicide doors, the wind-open windscreen, early form of A/C, and the rope grab handles with wooden ends, in the rear. Registration number was KKF554.
Enjoyed your video. Love the Roots Cars. My Dad's office had a Hilman Hunter and Humber Scepter. Remember travelling in those cars as a Kid back then nice memories. Both cars were of the GL trim ànd looked luxurious in 1976. 😂
In Argentina the Hillman Avenger was made by Chrysler and sold as Dodge 1500. It was a big sales success. When Chrysler sold their shares to the dealerships, and later bought by Volkswagen, it was badged as VW 1500, and continue the production, untill 1990.
My father had a Humber Super Snipe, and I learned on a 1963 Hillman Minx. Later I had a Hillman Super Minx, and a 1966 Sunbeam Alpine 1725. They were all good cars, and would love to own a Sunbeam Tiger. I remember competing with Peter Haper's rallycross Hillman Imp.
The "Arrow" Hillman Hunter won the London-Sydney marathon at the hands of Andrew Cowan - a feat repeated when the commemorative rally was run many years later.
Owned a few. OVS119N was an Avenger Sunseeker- a two door, in orange with a half vinyl roof in white. Perfectly good car. I've had six or seven Alpines and three Tigers- one of which I still have. I liked Rootes.
Great video Tom - and I suggest your scripts for future videos are written more in the past tense - e.g. instead of "The Rootes Group would be formed in 1917" to "The Rootes Group were formed in 1917". Chat GPT can help with scripts. Cheers!
I worked at Tilling Stevens [Maidstone] in the late 60's early 70's. Started on the crankshaft shop working on a Herbert 5 capstan machine, finishing overdrive main shafts for the Humber Snipe. After 3 weeks I was transferred to the accounts office where I worked in every section, ending up in budget control. Chrysler Airtemp were on the fourth floor at that time.
the 3 rules to failure in the British automotive industry: 1) buy-up a whole load of failing car manufacturers, 2) believe you can build a dominant car empire from other peoples failures, 3) help the government by taking money to secure jobs in deprived areas
It's odd how the misses's Vauxhall Insignia and my 1972 Hillman Avenger are now effectively the same brand. Recently I got a new oil pump for my Avenger. It was marked up "Made In Iran". I wonder then if the Avenger and Hunter had the same oil pump despite being different engines.
The original oil pump for the Hunter & Avengers are not interchangeable; yet both were made by British companies Hoborn Eaton & AE in Sheffield! The only link I can see to Vauxhall , back then, is through AC Delco , who sold to all British brands inc BMC / BL ( Ford were by far their biggest customer , even more than Vauxhall / Bedford!) AC Delco supplied Rootes, then Chrysler UK with petrol pumps , air cleaners, Filters( sold as MOPAR), instruments ( Smiths were top supplier Including to Ford), Heaters ( as Delainair), Wiper motors & linkages ( as an alternative to Lucas), radiator caps, breather valves & various odds & ends. As for the link via Stellantis today , well that must include the worlds biggest car manufacturer ;TOYOTA, as they have very major links with PSA , ( Peugeot 107, Various vans etc)) Toyota vans ( badge engineering) are being assembled at Ellesmere port based on Peugeot / Citroen Expert & Berlingo. Stellantis also control Chrysler, Jeep & Dodge Ram companies too. Ford Volvo & JLR are a major buyer if PSA diesel engines .
In 1982, my first car was a 1964 Singer Gazelle. A girl I worked with gave it to me. With a hole in the floor and smoke coming from the gearbox it lasted only 2 months, but left its mark on me. I kept the grill for years afterwards.
One model name that's ripe for a comeback is Horizon. It's well-known in both Europe and America, attaches to the sort of boxy '80s hatchback shape that's coming back in vogue, and might be hard to shoehorn into Peugeot's line but would be at an end of the market where *Fiat* hasn't been competitive in years (Stellantis' Europe's strongest contender being the Opel-Vauxhall Astra, perennial #2 overall in both Germany and Britain) and Chrysler in America desperately needs an entry.
The name of Rootes lives on in the form of one of the buildings at Warwick University, on the edge of Coventry. The Rootes Building is a Conference Centre on the main campus.
about 30 years ago, I once had the misfortune of somehow acquiring a 1979 Talbot Alpine ( I know not how or why) I remember the engine was great fun: lively, sporty loud but temperamental. The gearbox was just a joke....like stirring treacle into porridge and hoping for the best! When it moved, it was fun...sort of...but it didn't like to move to often and so went to the great car park in the sky, a couple of years after I had it given to me.
My first car in Perth Western Australia was a 72 chrysler hunter Royal made to look like a baby 1970 chrysler valiant in Australia and high back seats. Was a strong well made 1600 engine car.
Thanks Tom, that was very interesting. In 1966 I was a young Australian working in London, and wanted to buy a duty-free car and take it back to Australia. The Mini cost £445 (plus £15 for a heater), the Imp about £480, and the Fiat 850 only £360 (with a heater and reclining seats). The Fiat was wonderful, although in 25,000 miles two head gaskets blew. And a cousin had an Australian-made Imp with endess problems.
I was lucky enough to meet Günter H. in the 80s. He is the owner of " Alpine Tiger Center " in Germany. Back then I often went there with my Tr 6. He also had a Sunbeam Tiger, which is very rare in Germany. It was a great pleasure to run errands in this car. The sound of the V8 and the beautiful shape of the car were already striking back then. Unfortunately, at some point I sold my beloved Triumph and the contact fell apart...It was one of the best times of my life...By the way...the " Alpine Tiger Cenre " is still there...maybe I'll drive by again.
Had a Hillman Avenger and a 74 Hunter … a fabulous car with good power, ride and relability.. I wish we could still buy them instead of these complicated computers on wheels we have now
my parents bought a new hillman stationwaggon in 1960s, an upgrade from the Austin A70. The new Hillman broke down in every town along the Hume highway (in those days it was a single lane each way) on the way to Sydney. Parts were unobtainable, in one town the car was there for nearly 3 months. It was just a lemon, dad got rid of it as soon as it was working again.
I had a Chrysler Avenger 1.3 and a Talbot Avenger 1.6. Both were very good car's in my opinion, both served me well with reliability and comfort and decent performance. 😃
My very first car (following the rite of passage moped at 16, and Honda CB125S motorcyclewas) a 'Rootes', 1963 Hillman Minx 1600, purchased for £35, when I was 17 (1974). Turned out to be the only Rootes car I ever had, the following years mostly being Ford, with a few Vauxhalls, a couple of Rovers, Minivan, Toyota Hiace camper, a BMW, a Hyundai, and previous to my current car, a Nissan Qashqai. This was replaced 4 weeks a go with a (new) Toyota RAV4 GR Sport PHEV. A lot of cars, a lot of miles, a lot of (sigh..) years!
My grandpa had a Singer Gazelle that he kept in immaculate condition. When he died my mum asked if I wanted it but I was only 18 and at the time thought it was just an old duffers banger. How I wish I’d kept it! I now appreciate what a gem it was. Walnut dash and two tone body. I also remember the day my dad came home with the new family car - a white Singer Vogue Estate. Me and my siblings all ran out to admire it and explore inside. Probably not the most reliable vehicle but part of some great family memories.
Thank you for an informative video. My first car was a Hillman Minx (1425cc) I was very happy with it and it compared well to the Ford Cortina. I worked for a while at Ford of Europe in the early 1970s and understood that Rootes decline was due primarily to poor Industrial Relations (as was British Leyland) and poor worker satisfaction.😢 Outdated manufacturing methods in out- sourced suppliers also added to the mix. I witnessed at CAV Lucas a poor chap grinding away mindlessly a commutator ring hour after hour. It was something that could have been easily automated. Similar practices at Rootes factories led to dissaffection coupled with a management that was aloof. Were Union activities controlled from Moscow is a question that has some validity as a lot of the trade unionist I met were communists and some had been to Russia. You failed to mention that a version of the Hillman Minx/Hunter was sold to Iran. I think they still make them today.
One of my first cars was a 1970 Hillman Arrow, which had quite good performance, comfort, and handling, for a 1500, that is -70 mph was its' top speed. I also had a Mk.I Super Snipe, which I frankensteined Citroen CX suspension, and a Chrysler Hemi 265 into, but that was quite some years ago. I must say, I thoroughly recommend this combination- with 300+ bhp, the Humber was a great car.
My parents ran a Super Snipe Mk4 for years. I passed my test on an almost brand-new Hillman Imp Sport which was just perfect for a beginner with great visibility all round. I guessed that Stellantis would own many of the marks - they seem to have hoovered up a great many of the old brands.
I done my apprenticeship as an auto electrician at a Rootes garage in the late 60s early 70s working on the old and new models of that period seeing the changes brand ownership ending up owning a Hillman imp my first car and a Hillman hunter 1725cc engine, The last car that i worked belonging the brand was when i was in the RAF the station commanders car was a Hillman hunter 1725 under the Chrysler badging
In Australia the roots group went to Chrysler (who sold Valiant, Hunter and Imp), then later rebaded Mitsubishi cars and when Chrysler pulled out it was bought by Mitsubishi who continued manufacture of mitz cars in Australia for a few years but are now a full importer.
We had a Hillman Imp. It was pretty awful. I liked the fact that the rear screen opened, so you could transport huge items with them sticking out the back over the engine. We had to permanently carry a big concrete breeze block in the front boot to help balance the cars weight.
My aunt had a Hillman, but I'm not sure which one. I do know she said it was her favourite car! I'm pretty sure I saw you outside the loo in the British Motor Museum at Sunday's Rustival. I was going to say hi but you'd gone by the time I came out. So here's a belated hi! Great show, will likely do it again next year. It's nice to have a show where my MKIV Polo is welcome!
My father in law had a Hillman Hunter, and it was okay at the time. I had a Singer Chamois. The pressings for the Hunter all went to Turkey, then Iran, and it was built there for several years after it was deleted in GB.
My parents neighbour owned a gold a 'D' plate Singer vogue. He would spend hours polishing it. He then brought a Hilman hunter, again lovingly looked after. My nans neighbour had a bright blue Hilman Avenger and the bloke opposite had a Sunbeam Rapier. All seemed to disappear by the early 80s and replaced by Fords or Japanese cars.
Commer was once the favorite brand of goods/parcel delivery companny "van Gend en Loos 1809 -2003" now a part of DHL in the Netherlands They were one of the biggest customers of Commer vehicels outside the UK. Commer did build customized and specialized vehicels for them. The Commer walk thru was also specialy designed for their use and was still produced by Renault for van Gend en Loos as Commer till the early 1980's. only when the Renault Master MK1 arrived production ended.
Thanks Tom for another excellent presentation. Some trivia: in your video, Australian actor Ray Barrett appears in one of the Hillman Hunter TV commercials. He also starred in the Leyland P76 promotional film “The Carmakers”
A friend of mine had a replica of the London-Sydney winning Hunter and we test drove it through Switzerland, will never forget it! There is a mistake in your video: Exactly 11:11 “Hillman’s final act would be in 1981, after that the Avanger would be badged as a Chrysler.” No, that was long after the Peugeot take over. I am not sure when it was, sometime 1979 or 1980 that the company belonged to Peugeot but the new name was just decided: “Talbot”, which in itself was clever as Talbot had roots in both France and UK. But the new Talbot logo was not decided yet, plus they had some Chrysler logos still lying around. In those few months the cars had the Chrysler penta-star logo on the front grill, but the Talbot writing on the bonnet. But again, that was way before 1981 and the name Hillman died even before that. ANOTHER EXCITING QUESTION: Do we believe Talbot (or anything Rootes) could still exist today? I say YES! Not as Rootes or Chrysler, but certainly as Talbot! Because even as a Peugeot fan I say Peugeot has done unforgivable mistakes! 1) The Talbot Express was a variant of the Peugeot J5 and Citroen C25, only sold in UK until 1994, but it could have carried on based on the Peugeot Boxer, Citroen Jumper. 2) The Peugeot 309 does not fit into Peugeot model numbers. It should have been the replacement to the Talbot Horizon and was originally called the Talbot Arizona. That it shared many parts of the 205 was no problem in my eyes. It would have made more sense to keep calling it a Talbot rather than the 309, and that was the original intention. 3) The Talbot Samba Mk2. That is not remembered, it never came. Probably the main problem of Peugeot was in-house competition with Talbots sold through Peugeot dealers. The luxury Peugeot 604 already had a hard life against the slightly smaller but newer Peugeot 505, and now the Talbot Tagora came alongside it. Same the Talbot Samba was a freshened up Peugeot 104, sitting next to each other nobody would buy a 104 any more. But this led to a clever idea: The Talbot Samba Mk2 was still badge engineered, but it was based on the Citroen AX, which stood at different dealers! If someone wanted something above the 205 it would have been the Arizona, below the 205 it would have been the Samba2 All this may only have secured Talbot for a few years, BUT: 4) Matra was there too. They had the probably first SUV in history in form of the Talbot Rancho. As a successor of the Rancho Matra developped the Talbot Espace, the World’s first MPV. What an amazingly innovative partner! But Peugeot said: “MPV is rubbish, bin it, if Renault wants to have it, they can have it for free”. And so the Renault Espace became a huge success that years later Peugeot went into 806/807, when the Espace was a Talbot in the first place! The Renault Espace was originally designed as the Talbot Espace! Had Peugeot not been so dumb, Talbot could have become pioneers now. Everything that Peugeot struggles with giving double-zeros as 2008, 3008, could have been marketed as Talbot, while Peugeot keeps their usual numbers. If you check the 1st generation 2008, in the roof line it has even hints of the Talbot Rancho! Final fun-note: How did the double-zero numbers even start? Even though this is more the French Simca arm of Chrysler Europe, Simca’s smallest car (basically opposite to the Hillman Imp) was depending on engine the Simca 1004, 1005, 1006. Remember the Peugeot 1007 with its sliding doors? This car was often laughed about, but it was something different, just like the Rancho and Espace. This car was developped at the former Simca-Chrysler-Talbot plant Poissy as the Peugeot Sesamé concept people loved it. Peugeot wanted to launch it as the 007, because it is smaller than the 106/107, but there was a copyright issue with James Bond. The designers in Poissy then came up with the idea: “If you can’t call it the 007, we have done the 1004, 1005 & 1006, why not call it the 1007?” This was done with right that reasoning and it was the first Peugeot with a 00-number. Yes, in the end people laughed about the 1007. But imagine the 1007, the 309, the Express, the AX-based Samba2 would have come as Talbots with the World looking more and more into SUVs…. I don’t claim I am right, it is just visions, basically. But the ideas that were there, I could well see Talbot being striving now and conservative Peugeot struggling.
The Rootes building in Hawkhurst from 2:09 still exists with the gas light on the corner! Search for Hawkhurst Baptist church and it's on the opposite corner of the same side road.
My Father had couple of imps (E & N plate) and my brother had a 1969 Humber Sceptre which he crashed into the back of a milk float which broke the rear light of the milk float but wrote off the sceptre.
I had two of the last model Hillman Minxes - the ones based on the Hunter - and they were reliable enough, though it was the Avenger which was the greater pleasure to drive, having superb handling. Shame that they went west.
Read a book on the demise of the British motor industry and it said Rootes generally looked after its employees and had very little industrial action compared to others.
Living in Coventry not far from the factory you could always see a Routes vehicle somewhere around town..but then.??..how could such a big company fail so badly.. you could see the decline coming.....such a shame. Many thanks Dave from Coventry..
In our area, for a while, Avengers outnumbered Escort mk1&2. Hunters were rarer, though and far outnumbered by Uncle Henry’s Cortina mk3, with its futuristic Coke bottle lines.
I don't think we've got any hope of the legacy brands coming back now with all the current ones fighting for survival, it's a shame really because I agree with you.
When I was a boy my uncle had a Hunter 1725 De luxe as a company car. I think it was Prairie beige with basic vinyl seats but it was quite comfortable to ride in. He had a Marina automatic as a replacement which I don't think was much of a step up to be honest!
We could see the stellantis brands make some sort of come back. They have all their brands a deadline to put forward a comeback plan. Hope it includes these brands and not just for Lancia
I think that some of the Rootes Group's engineering was a bit suspect - when motorways came along, Hillman Minxs were famous for breaking down terminally because the engine couldn't take high speeds for long. The Rootes brothers even boasted that that they'd sold Chrysler a pup with obsolete cars and worn out production tech! I guess I actually owned one of the last vestiges of the Rootes Group - I had a 1999 Peugeot 206GTI made in the former Hillman factory at Ryton near Coventry. Great car, but reliability was poor - some things never change it seems!
Would like an in depth video on the Humber 3 liter . A forgotten six with a hemi head . Can find little information on it . Was it short stroke ? How many main bearings ? Any racing pedigree ?
1966 model in storm grey with red vinyl interior. Kept it for 11 years then bought a Hunter which was not a good example. Many years later I bought a Hunter Topaz which was a great car. Always liked Rootes cars but lack of investment killed them. The Hunter went on far too long without any real change while the Cortina kept getting updated.
The Chinese need to bring back the Austin, Morris, Humber and Hillman brands as retro styled electric cars. Imagine a quirky small hatchback resembling the Moggie, a sleek sports car resembling the fastback Sunbeam Rapier, or a big executive car inspired by the Hawks of the early 60s
My guess in the first 2 minutes and without going through the comments is that the brands are now owned by Stellantis via Peugeot who bought out Chrysler UK who owned Rootes and then PSA (Peugeots parent company) merged with FCA (FiatChyslerAutomobiles) to form Stellantis so they have kind of gone full circle to end up back up in bed with Chyrsler again.
Dad had a singer vogue and an arrow Hunter. Loved that car... I wish that humber and Hunter could come back.possibly as EVs Always wondered how easy it would be to get hold of an Iranian hunter...
We lost so much with the British car industry. I bet that had the British car survived today it would be solid long lasting cars. Today even BMW and Mercedes has build in obsolesson. Mercedes was the shit to have, Now it is just shit to have.
The Rootes group was a behemoth that was bound for plundering. Would of loved to work with the team that came up with the Sunbeam Alpine. If i had the time and the lolly would love to remake it.
Our local funeral director had humbers as hearses and my employer has a few car dealerships built on the factory at Linwood they’re is a railway bridge at Linwood and you can still make out it says home of the avenger and sunbeam greetings from Scotland 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
From a purely brand marketing perspective, most if not all of these marques were destined to be a rather awkward sell at best in the modern global era. One of their most notable highlights, the Hillman Imp was hampered by the ludicrous politically imposed production setup which included engines being manufactured in the midlands, and assembly - in Glasgow…!
The last Humber Sceptre was a variation on the 'Arrow' cars, not a rebadged Avenger. The Avenger started life as a Hillman, became a Chrysler, then a Talbot. It was also badged in the USA as a Plymouth, and was built in Argentina as a VW.
The Arrow Cars, e.g. the Hillman Hunter lived on in Iran as the Paykan (or maybe Peykan), originally sold as CKD kits, and the mechanicals were put into the Peugeot 405 body too.
Great and interesting video as always.
Sunbeam Rapier, Singer Vogue, good cars for the day.
Avenger was only sold as a Plymouth in North America. Dodge dealers sold a version of the Mitsubishi Colt Galant as the Dodge Colt.
The Avenger having its final run at the VW factory in Argentina, is the ironic end to an old story:
Immediately after World War 2, Lord William Rootes had the opportunity to purchase the Volkswagen company, but declined because he thought the Beetle was too noisy & had no future.
@@VincentLander And warranty claims for the Japanese cars were a tiny fraction of the British ones, leading to the latter quickly being phased out in favor of the Plymouth Arrow (Mitsubishi Lancer Celeste).
@@nlpnt In Canada (I'm Canadian), after the Avenger-based Cricket left the market, Plymouth dealers got their own version of the Colt, sold as the Cricket.
I remember my Dad hit a kangaroo on the highway on the way to Adelaide in our 2 week old Mazda 626. We got a Hillman Hunter as a hire car for a week maybe and one exacly the same drove up next to us and were excited seeing the same car ... they were popular in Australia. I'd literally rather one now than these electronic plastic cvt nightmare cars around now!!
Yes as a kid collecting car numbers you could see what model was coming. Now they are all Tessie plastic clones. My mate had a Sunbeam Rapier, sadly it could not hold a candle to my Ford Cortina MK1 1500 GT. loved my Hellman Avenger I got later on. Had it for six years.
Treat yaself....😊. I got a 55 yr old Rover.... Gets more 'nods and waves' than any modern rubbish... 👍🏻
The Hunter did get a name in Australia the Hillman Grunter .
In the 80's I enjoyed telling folks it was f#@ked and would cost $$$$$$ to fix.
@@chuckmaddison2924 oh really? a boy in m,y school had one in 1990 I think it had been a family car before and he said it "had a cold" and would get better. poor damned car survived that long only to get treated like that
@@paulmiles6012 oh I've never owned one , there is a yellow Triumph 2500 sedan for sale dirt cheap in Melbourne somewhere but they drive like go karts. adding insult to injury the Mazda dealership traded in my parents Mk 2 Jaguar for the mazda 626 for a tiny amount of money!
I was born in Coventry in 1954. My father had a Humber Hawk, with a propensity to boil when driven on the, then, new and novel dual carriageways. My older brother had a Hillman Minx and later a Sunbeam Tiger. All suffered quickly with one common feature - RUST!
Coventry City began as Singers FC, as they were the works football team. So a little bit of Singers still exists.
Watched from Old Harbour Jamaica🇯🇲 and we owned many Roots cars over the years. I still own an Imp .
MR. JAMAICA Mon, I too am a JAMAICAN living here in the U.S. and I too remember the many DODGE AVENGERS and HILLMAN HUNTERS et al We had 'back in the day'...
In high school, someone I knew had one of only maybe 3 HILLMAN HUNTER GLS that were brought in by MOTOR SALES Ltd in their Family...
ROOTES had a lot of Roots😉...
I like that "@kennedysingh3916"...and yes, XLNT Video🤙...
Gotta love an imp
my first car was a Himp. really loved it. reliable cheap to run easy to work on and didn't sound like a bag of nails like many others did in that era. its only real downside were those drum brakes that faded out without much effort
@@thatcheapguy525 My first car also,out here in Oz in 67.....Loved it!
The best thing about the fading brakes was that it taught you how to drive properly...especialy around the Blue Mountains in NSW where I grew up.
@@jeffkeeley4594 indeed true. engine braking, matching the right gear to the corner or descent, reading the road ahead.
My first car was a 1973 Hillman Hunter 1725 super, bought with memories of my mum taking me to school in a arrow range Minx and my Grandfathers Hunter GLS , with the Holbay engine and twin Webber carbs it was probably as good as a Lotus Cortina , wish i had one now.
Memories… My grandmother was John Panks -Director of Rootes North American operations - personal secretary. As a young child in the 1960s, I remember all the great brochures that were around my grandparents house. My father drove a Hillman Minx in the early 1960s, despite the fact that he was working for General Motors. I bought my first British roadster in the early 1980s; a 1967 Sunbeam Alpine. It was a fun car that was remarkably reliable.
As I got older I realized what an opportunity I missed by not talking to my grandmother about her memories of working for Rootes.
Sadly so many lost British brands......in everything!
Products all made cheaply in China, then sold at British prices
Back in the day in the West Indies we had so many wonderful English cars. Hillman Hunter was very well represented, alongside non Roots Cortinas and many other Fords, Holdens, Morris Minors and Marinas, Minis, Vauxhalls. Even a few MGs could be seen about. Miss those days man
A great video, thank you. I rememver the following from my school days in Lancashire: the school chaplain had a new Humber Super Snipe in 1963, my maths teacher a Singer Gazelle, and an aunt had a 1965 white Sunger Chamois, which like many others had cylinder head gasket problems. An uncle had a,Hiklman Husky van and another uncle had two Hillman Minx's. A potato distributor in Hull used to have what was belived to be the largest collection of Humber Super Snipe Limiusines and Saloons in the world. The collection was broken up about five years ago.
Thank you again, keep up the good work.
Wow, what a brilliant story.
Rootes had very stylish cars in the 50's and 60's and i think are under appreciated today, Seeing classic car auctions, their cars look lovely. A huge mistake was to make the Imp at Linwood, Which i think was by Government interference, It could have really rivaled the mini but it was late to the road and did cost more. Sunbeam Tiger was a lovely two seater sports car and James Bond's first car. My favourite was the Hillman Hunter, Yes a bit boring but was quite advanced when made first and had a new lease of life after its demise here when Iran bought the tooling and produced them there right up until in the early 2000's. Rootes were an understated brand, Built good cars but like so many, Made mistakes and sadly died. Another great video Tom. 👍
Couldn't agree more and the Hillman Hunger is my favourite as well! Thank you.
The Bond car was an Alpine, not a Tiger
My wife's dad had a Hillman Hunter estate that I borrowed to collect some things from my mum's house, about 25 miles each way. The oil pressure light was on but he said it was a feature following the big ends being done. About 20 miles in and going up a hill it got slower and slower and there was a big knocking then a bang and a large smoke ring just as I crested the hill. I took it out of gear and coasted a mile and a half and parked it in a farm yard, then the oil all ran out. A conrod had gone and the farmer towed me to mums. I got a mate to take me to a scrap hard and I purchased the best looking replacemant engine. This turned out to be from a Sunbeam Rapier and had a different firing order so two cylinders were attempting to run backwards so I needed to replace the camshaft and loads of other stuff. Still that was better then when I replaced the sills on his Cortina and burnt it all out when the back seat caught fire.
A number of Hunter, Vogue (badged Sunbeam in Ireland), Avengers in the family and extended family. Imps too. A neighbour used to rally Imps in the 60s and ‘70s. Incidentally, one correction @10:22 - the Sceptre was based m on the Hunter, not the Avenger as stated. Anyway, Tom - a huuuuge undertaking to compress something like the convoluted Rootes history into 12 minutes! Bravo, young man ! ! 👍
I appreciate it and your insight and corrections are always helpful :)
My Mum and Dad bought a Hillman Avenger and Imp at Rootes in Maidstone Kent in the 70s,happy memories,cheers fella 👍
Good to hear Alan!
I remember the Plymouth Cricket being a rebadged for the United States.
Ah, those 'Ladybird Book of Cars' illustrations! Lovely.
I've love a Delorean history vid Tom. Love the channel, cheers
Even at a mere 50 years old: Rootes/Chrysler and Talbot were a major brand in my childhood. My first best mate's mum had a Hillman Imp that would consistently overheat to the point where she was in ecstasy to receive one of the 1st MK3 Escorts to be seen in our home town of Wolverhampton . My mum would constantly drive me to school in different Chrysler and Talbot Avengers that were sales reps cars at the end of their leases where my dad was a manager. I loved the Avenger's styling throughout its entire history, but my mum would constantly moan that they were utter shite. Then further into the 80's my auntie turns up in a Talbot Horizon, which to me almost defines all chunky 80's styling of the era. Needless to say the Horizon very quickly rusted and fell apart within a few terms at school (didn't they all 🤣). But maybe solely because of styling or nostalgia, I am left with an 80's Talbot fetish (which I am currently seeking psychiatric help for 🤪). And one day dream of owning the brand's ultimate Unicorn.....A RHD 2.6SX Talbot Tagora..... GOD help me! ..I mean there must be a helpline or something for this kind of perversion!!! Great video Tom, keep em coming pls.
we all have fetishes
learn to embrace yours!
Difficult to control I pity you . Just get a jaag
My late dad's first car was a Sunbeam Talbot. He and my late mum owned a Humber Sceptre many years before I was born. They also had a Talbot Horizon when I was young.
I had a hillman hunter royal it was 2 tone white with a gold coloured roof black leather seats it was automatic drove it everywhere it was a great car drove it to Melbourne and back to Sydney never broke down.
Only once got petrol at Benalla water was in the petrol drove 5km broke down racv. Got me going again, he said you got petrol at this petrol station ⛽️ I said yes I was his 7th customer. He drained the tank clean up the su and fuel pump gave me full tank of fuel at another garage also got money back from the garage that had water in his storage tank. God bless the men and women who work with the road service what ever state you are in.
I bought a 'used' Talbot Matra Rancho in the early 1980's. With its fibreglass body I thought it would last for ever. Turns out that only the back was fibreglass. The rest of the bodywork was based on a Simca van built from cheap European steel. With 100,000 on the clock already combined with damp British weather its already badly rusted underside did not last long. I still loved that quirky six-seater, three-door car though.
I remember them driving around when they were new and as you say there didn't seem to be around long.
I had one, loved it shame they rusted
My father had a Super Minx and later a Humber Sceptre, both excellent cars
I worked with a guy that served his time at Hillman. He was on the test track with a Commer van, a requirement for local councils, police etc was that it did 50MPH. He said they did everything in their power but couldn't manage it so they just altered all the speedos. While this was going on a little car kept zipping past them, a prototype Imp. I've had a Hunter and a few Imps and if another comes along I'll probably have another.
great video! fascinating history, i love the Rootes marque and my dear old dad had a few Rootes products when i was a child, first off he had a Hillman Super Minx, a wonderful two tone car, then he had a Hillman Hunter(i recall a head gasket blowing on the M6 once) and finally he had a Hillman Avenger, all wonderful cars which i have great memories of, i think that Rootes was arguably the best of all the volume manufacturers in the UK, it was truly a golden era the post war period and it is so sad to see how the marque just seemed to disappear, the Imp debacle was crucial, a better car than the Mini in so many ways, it should have been a roaring success but alas it wasn't and its failure contributed hugely to the eventual demise of Rootes
Great video highlighting the great British brands that were. In about 1962, my dad bought his first car, a 1946 Hillman Minx, black, as most cars of that vintage were, paid £10 for it. I remember the front suicide doors, the wind-open windscreen, early form of A/C, and the rope grab handles with wooden ends, in the rear. Registration number was KKF554.
Enjoyed your video. Love the Roots Cars. My Dad's office had a Hilman Hunter and Humber Scepter. Remember travelling in those cars as a Kid back then nice memories. Both cars were of the GL trim ànd looked luxurious in 1976. 😂
In Argentina the Hillman Avenger was made by Chrysler and sold as Dodge 1500. It was a big sales success. When Chrysler sold their shares to the dealerships, and later bought by Volkswagen, it was badged as VW 1500, and continue the production, untill 1990.
My father had a Humber Super Snipe, and I learned on a 1963 Hillman Minx. Later I had a Hillman Super Minx, and a 1966 Sunbeam Alpine 1725. They were all good cars, and would love to own a Sunbeam Tiger. I remember competing with Peter Haper's rallycross Hillman Imp.
I had a 1966 Hillman Minx.
My pal and I drove from Germany to England in a Hillman Imp with a piece of string holding the throttle together.
The "Arrow" Hillman Hunter won the London-Sydney marathon at the hands of Andrew Cowan - a feat repeated when the commemorative rally was run many years later.
Andrew Cowan did win again (1977) but it was in a Mercedes-Benz.
The Hunter did compete again (1993) but finished in 67th place.
Owned a few. OVS119N was an Avenger Sunseeker- a two door, in orange with a half vinyl roof in white. Perfectly good car. I've had six or seven Alpines and three Tigers- one of which I still have. I liked Rootes.
Great video Tom - and I suggest your scripts for future videos are written more in the past tense - e.g. instead of "The Rootes Group would be formed in 1917" to "The Rootes Group were formed in 1917". Chat GPT can help with scripts. Cheers!
I worked at Tilling Stevens [Maidstone] in the late 60's early 70's. Started on the crankshaft shop working on a Herbert 5 capstan machine, finishing overdrive main shafts for the Humber Snipe. After 3 weeks I was transferred to the accounts office where I worked in every section, ending up in budget control. Chrysler Airtemp were on the fourth floor at that time.
the 3 rules to failure in the British automotive industry:
1) buy-up a whole load of failing car manufacturers,
2) believe you can build a dominant car empire from other peoples failures,
3) help the government by taking money to secure jobs in deprived areas
It's odd how the misses's Vauxhall Insignia and my 1972 Hillman Avenger are now effectively the same brand.
Recently I got a new oil pump for my Avenger. It was marked up "Made In Iran". I wonder then if the Avenger and Hunter had the same oil pump despite being different engines.
The Paykan (Arrow) was fitted with the Avenger 1600 engine from the 1980s onwards due to production of the earlier unit coming to an end in the UK.
The original oil pump for the Hunter & Avengers are not interchangeable; yet both were made by British companies Hoborn Eaton & AE in Sheffield! The only link I can see to Vauxhall , back then, is through AC Delco , who sold to all British brands inc BMC / BL ( Ford were by far their biggest customer , even more than Vauxhall / Bedford!) AC Delco supplied Rootes, then Chrysler UK with petrol pumps , air cleaners, Filters( sold as MOPAR), instruments ( Smiths were top supplier Including to Ford), Heaters ( as Delainair), Wiper motors & linkages ( as an alternative to Lucas), radiator caps, breather valves & various odds & ends. As for the link via Stellantis today , well that must include the worlds biggest car manufacturer ;TOYOTA, as they have very major links with PSA , ( Peugeot 107, Various vans etc)) Toyota vans ( badge engineering) are being assembled at Ellesmere port based on Peugeot / Citroen Expert & Berlingo. Stellantis also control Chrysler, Jeep & Dodge Ram companies too. Ford Volvo & JLR are a major buyer if PSA diesel engines .
In 1982, my first car was a 1964 Singer Gazelle. A girl I worked with gave it to me. With a hole in the floor and smoke coming from the gearbox it lasted only 2 months, but left its mark on me. I kept the grill for years afterwards.
One model name that's ripe for a comeback is Horizon. It's well-known in both Europe and America, attaches to the sort of boxy '80s hatchback shape that's coming back in vogue, and might be hard to shoehorn into Peugeot's line but would be at an end of the market where *Fiat* hasn't been competitive in years (Stellantis' Europe's strongest contender being the Opel-Vauxhall Astra, perennial #2 overall in both Germany and Britain) and Chrysler in America desperately needs an entry.
I’ve owned,loads of Hillmans , a Humber Super Snipe. And Commer vans. Well made good cars.
The name of Rootes lives on in the form of one of the buildings at Warwick University, on the edge of Coventry. The Rootes Building is a Conference Centre on the main campus.
about 30 years ago, I once had the misfortune of somehow acquiring a 1979 Talbot Alpine
( I know not how or why) I remember the engine was great fun: lively, sporty loud but temperamental. The gearbox was just a joke....like stirring treacle into porridge and hoping for the best! When it moved, it was fun...sort of...but it didn't like to move to often and so went to the great car park in the sky, a couple of years after I had it given to me.
My first car in Perth Western Australia was a 72 chrysler hunter Royal made to look like a baby 1970 chrysler valiant in Australia and high back seats.
Was a strong well made 1600 engine car.
Thanks Tom, that was very interesting.
In 1966 I was a young Australian working in London, and wanted to buy a duty-free car and take it back to Australia. The Mini cost £445 (plus £15 for a heater), the Imp about £480, and the Fiat 850 only £360 (with a heater and reclining seats). The Fiat was wonderful, although in 25,000 miles two head gaskets blew.
And a cousin had an Australian-made Imp with endess problems.
I was lucky enough to meet Günter H. in the 80s. He is the owner of " Alpine Tiger Center " in Germany. Back then I often went there with my Tr 6. He also had a Sunbeam Tiger, which is very rare in Germany. It was a great pleasure to run errands in this car. The sound of the V8 and the beautiful shape of the car were already striking back then. Unfortunately, at some point I sold my beloved Triumph and the contact fell apart...It was one of the best times of my life...By the way...the " Alpine Tiger Cenre " is still there...maybe I'll drive by again.
Thank you Tom for another excellent presentation
Had a Hillman Avenger and a 74 Hunter … a fabulous car with good power, ride and relability.. I wish we could still buy them instead of these complicated computers on wheels we have now
my parents bought a new hillman stationwaggon in 1960s, an upgrade from the Austin A70. The new Hillman broke down in every town along the Hume highway (in those days it was a single lane each way) on the way to Sydney. Parts were unobtainable, in one town the car was there for nearly 3 months. It was just a lemon, dad got rid of it as soon as it was working again.
I had a Chrysler Avenger 1.3 and a Talbot Avenger 1.6.
Both were very good car's in my opinion, both served me well with reliability and comfort and decent performance. 😃
Great video, very concisely presented.
My very first car (following the rite of passage moped at 16, and Honda CB125S motorcyclewas) a 'Rootes', 1963 Hillman Minx 1600, purchased for £35, when I was 17 (1974). Turned out to be the only Rootes car I ever had, the following years mostly being Ford, with a few Vauxhalls, a couple of Rovers, Minivan, Toyota Hiace camper, a BMW, a Hyundai, and previous to my current car, a Nissan Qashqai. This was replaced 4 weeks a go with a (new) Toyota RAV4 GR Sport PHEV. A lot of cars, a lot of miles, a lot of (sigh..) years!
My grandpa had a Singer Gazelle that he kept in immaculate condition. When he died my mum asked if I wanted it but I was only 18 and at the time thought it was just an old duffers banger. How I wish I’d kept it! I now appreciate what a gem it was. Walnut dash and two tone body. I also remember the day my dad came home with the new family car - a white Singer Vogue Estate. Me and my siblings all ran out to admire it and explore inside. Probably not the most reliable vehicle but part of some great family memories.
Thank you for an informative video. My first car was a Hillman Minx (1425cc) I was very happy with it and it compared well to the Ford Cortina. I worked for a while at Ford of Europe in the early 1970s and understood that Rootes decline was due primarily to poor Industrial Relations (as was British Leyland) and poor worker satisfaction.😢 Outdated manufacturing methods in out- sourced suppliers also added to the mix. I witnessed at CAV Lucas a poor chap grinding away mindlessly a commutator ring hour after hour. It was something that could have been easily automated. Similar practices at Rootes factories led to dissaffection coupled with a management that was aloof. Were Union activities controlled from Moscow is a question that has some validity as a lot of the trade unionist I met were communists and some had been to Russia.
You failed to mention that a version of the Hillman Minx/Hunter was sold to Iran. I think they still make them today.
One of my first cars was a 1970 Hillman Arrow, which had quite good performance, comfort, and handling, for a 1500, that is -70 mph was its' top speed.
I also had a Mk.I Super Snipe, which I frankensteined Citroen CX suspension, and a Chrysler Hemi 265 into, but that was quite some years ago. I must say, I thoroughly recommend this combination- with 300+ bhp, the Humber was a great car.
Hey up tom thanks this is a really interesting and well done video
My parents ran a Super Snipe Mk4 for years. I passed my test on an almost brand-new Hillman Imp Sport which was just perfect for a beginner with great visibility all round.
I guessed that Stellantis would own many of the marks - they seem to have hoovered up a great many of the old brands.
My dad was at the Linwood plant, he was there till the end. Remember the Imp, hunter, minx and avenger.
I done my apprenticeship as an auto electrician at a Rootes garage in the late 60s early 70s working on the old and new models of that period seeing the changes brand ownership ending up owning a Hillman imp my first car and a Hillman hunter 1725cc engine, The last car that i worked belonging the brand was when i was in the RAF the station commanders car was a Hillman hunter 1725 under the Chrysler badging
In Australia the roots group went to Chrysler (who sold Valiant, Hunter and Imp), then later rebaded Mitsubishi cars and when Chrysler pulled out it was bought by Mitsubishi who continued manufacture of mitz cars in Australia for a few years but are now a full importer.
We had a Hillman Imp. It was pretty awful. I liked the fact that the rear screen opened, so you could transport huge items with them sticking out the back over the engine. We had to permanently carry a big concrete breeze block in the front boot to help balance the cars weight.
My aunt had a Hillman, but I'm not sure which one. I do know she said it was her favourite car!
I'm pretty sure I saw you outside the loo in the British Motor Museum at Sunday's Rustival. I was going to say hi but you'd gone by the time I came out. So here's a belated hi! Great show, will likely do it again next year. It's nice to have a show where my MKIV Polo is welcome!
My father in law had a Hillman Hunter, and it was okay at the time. I had a Singer Chamois. The pressings for the Hunter all went to Turkey, then Iran, and it was built there for several years after it was deleted in GB.
My parents neighbour owned a gold a 'D' plate Singer vogue. He would spend hours polishing it. He then brought a Hilman hunter, again lovingly looked after. My nans neighbour had a bright blue Hilman Avenger and the bloke opposite had a Sunbeam Rapier. All seemed to disappear by the early 80s and replaced by Fords or Japanese cars.
Commer was once the favorite brand of goods/parcel delivery companny "van Gend en Loos 1809 -2003" now a part of DHL in the Netherlands
They were one of the biggest customers of Commer vehicels outside the UK.
Commer did build customized and specialized vehicels for them.
The Commer walk thru was also specialy designed for their use and was still produced by Renault for van Gend en Loos as Commer till the early 1980's.
only when the Renault Master MK1 arrived production ended.
Thanks Tom for another excellent presentation.
Some trivia: in your video, Australian actor Ray Barrett appears in one of the Hillman Hunter TV commercials.
He also starred in the Leyland P76 promotional film “The Carmakers”
In the Rootes group Hillman meant basic, Singer upmarket, Humber luxury, Sunbeam sporting and Commer commercial.
Owned and learnt to drive in a Hillman imp. Great car, everything a mini should have been but lacked long-term reliability.
A friend of mine had a replica of the London-Sydney winning Hunter and we test drove it through Switzerland, will never forget it!
There is a mistake in your video: Exactly 11:11 “Hillman’s final act would be in 1981, after that the Avanger would be badged as a Chrysler.”
No, that was long after the Peugeot take over. I am not sure when it was, sometime 1979 or 1980 that the company belonged to Peugeot but the new name was just decided: “Talbot”, which in itself was clever as Talbot had roots in both France and UK. But the new Talbot logo was not decided yet, plus they had some Chrysler logos still lying around. In those few months the cars had the Chrysler penta-star logo on the front grill, but the Talbot writing on the bonnet. But again, that was way before 1981 and the name Hillman died even before that.
ANOTHER EXCITING QUESTION: Do we believe Talbot (or anything Rootes) could still exist today?
I say YES! Not as Rootes or Chrysler, but certainly as Talbot!
Because even as a Peugeot fan I say Peugeot has done unforgivable mistakes!
1) The Talbot Express was a variant of the Peugeot J5 and Citroen C25, only sold in UK until 1994, but it could have carried on based on the Peugeot Boxer, Citroen Jumper.
2) The Peugeot 309 does not fit into Peugeot model numbers. It should have been the replacement to the Talbot Horizon and was originally called the Talbot Arizona. That it shared many parts of the 205 was no problem in my eyes. It would have made more sense to keep calling it a Talbot rather than the 309, and that was the original intention.
3) The Talbot Samba Mk2. That is not remembered, it never came. Probably the main problem of Peugeot was in-house competition with Talbots sold through Peugeot dealers. The luxury Peugeot 604 already had a hard life against the slightly smaller but newer Peugeot 505, and now the Talbot Tagora came alongside it. Same the Talbot Samba was a freshened up Peugeot 104, sitting next to each other nobody would buy a 104 any more. But this led to a clever idea: The Talbot Samba Mk2 was still badge engineered, but it was based on the Citroen AX, which stood at different dealers! If someone wanted something above the 205 it would have been the Arizona, below the 205 it would have been the Samba2
All this may only have secured Talbot for a few years, BUT:
4) Matra was there too. They had the probably first SUV in history in form of the Talbot Rancho. As a successor of the Rancho Matra developped the Talbot Espace, the World’s first MPV. What an amazingly innovative partner! But Peugeot said: “MPV is rubbish, bin it, if Renault wants to have it, they can have it for free”. And so the Renault Espace became a huge success that years later Peugeot went into 806/807, when the Espace was a Talbot in the first place!
The Renault Espace was originally designed as the Talbot Espace! Had Peugeot not been so dumb, Talbot could have become pioneers now. Everything that Peugeot struggles with giving double-zeros as 2008, 3008, could have been marketed as Talbot, while Peugeot keeps their usual numbers. If you check the 1st generation 2008, in the roof line it has even hints of the Talbot Rancho!
Final fun-note: How did the double-zero numbers even start?
Even though this is more the French Simca arm of Chrysler Europe, Simca’s smallest car (basically opposite to the Hillman Imp) was depending on engine the Simca 1004, 1005, 1006. Remember the Peugeot 1007 with its sliding doors? This car was often laughed about, but it was something different, just like the Rancho and Espace. This car was developped at the former Simca-Chrysler-Talbot plant Poissy as the Peugeot Sesamé concept people loved it. Peugeot wanted to launch it as the 007, because it is smaller than the 106/107, but there was a copyright issue with James Bond. The designers in Poissy then came up with the idea: “If you can’t call it the 007, we have done the 1004, 1005 & 1006, why not call it the 1007?” This was done with right that reasoning and it was the first Peugeot with a 00-number.
Yes, in the end people laughed about the 1007. But imagine the 1007, the 309, the Express, the AX-based Samba2 would have come as Talbots with the World looking more and more into SUVs….
I don’t claim I am right, it is just visions, basically. But the ideas that were there, I could well see Talbot being striving now and conservative Peugeot struggling.
The Rootes building in Hawkhurst from 2:09 still exists with the gas light on the corner!
Search for Hawkhurst Baptist church and it's on the opposite corner of the same side road.
My Father had couple of imps (E & N plate) and my brother had a 1969 Humber Sceptre which he crashed into the back of a milk float which broke the rear light of the milk float but wrote off the sceptre.
I had a 1972 Avenger very good car never had any issues with it i serviced every six thousand miles or so i changed it for a V W Jetta in 1981
I had two of the last model Hillman Minxes - the ones based on the Hunter - and they were reliable enough, though it was the Avenger which was the greater pleasure to drive, having superb handling. Shame that they went west.
Read a book on the demise of the British motor industry and it said Rootes generally looked after its employees and had very little industrial action compared to others.
It was the pressed steel strike that got them
Living in Coventry not far from the factory you could always see a Routes vehicle somewhere around town..but then.??..how could such a big company fail so badly.. you could see the decline coming.....such a shame. Many thanks Dave from Coventry..
As a 16 year old in 1967 I viewed the new Hunter as a match for the Mk 2 Cortina but sadly it was not to be!
In our area, for a while, Avengers outnumbered Escort mk1&2.
Hunters were rarer, though and far outnumbered by Uncle Henry’s Cortina mk3, with its futuristic Coke bottle lines.
Good video, one correction
Scepter was reached Hunter not an Avenger
I got lumbered with 3 Hillman Hunters in succession as Company cars ugh. Then I wangled a Triumph Dolomite 1850 HL! Light at the end of the tunnel!
I really think that PSA could have brought back Talbot as a competitive arm for the likes of Dacia, and the lower specced Hyundai's and Kia's
I don't think we've got any hope of the legacy brands coming back now with all the current ones fighting for survival, it's a shame really because I agree with you.
Always thought this too, although weirdly when u look at early Talbot history ,it was practically Bentley like.
Yeah I was thinking the same.
2:00 Paul Whitehouse on the left 😂.
Now see here Mr Chomondley-Warner..😂😂
I'd love another Hillman Imp!
Please do a video about the tr7 thank you
When I was a boy my uncle had a Hunter 1725 De luxe as a company car. I think it was Prairie beige with basic vinyl seats but it was quite comfortable to ride in. He had a Marina automatic as a replacement which I don't think was much of a step up to be honest!
We could see the stellantis brands make some sort of come back. They have all their brands a deadline to put forward a comeback plan. Hope it includes these brands and not just for Lancia
I think that some of the Rootes Group's engineering was a bit suspect - when motorways came along, Hillman Minxs were famous for breaking down terminally because the engine couldn't take high speeds for long. The Rootes brothers even boasted that that they'd sold Chrysler a pup with obsolete cars and worn out production tech! I guess I actually owned one of the last vestiges of the Rootes Group - I had a 1999 Peugeot 206GTI made in the former Hillman factory at Ryton near Coventry. Great car, but reliability was poor - some things never change it seems!
i still have my hillman that came with a record player 45 rpm only and i tried but only stoped with the marcels single ,blue moon
My mum bought a Sunbeam Rapier fastback new in 1970, we still have it in running condition. D
I still own and drive my grandads 1959 singer gazelle convertible which he bought new he always drove Singers
One of these days, I'll be shocked to see those Webers gone off the shelf and onto the Rover.
Would like an in depth video on the Humber 3 liter . A forgotten six with a hemi head . Can find little information on it . Was it short stroke ? How many main bearings ? Any racing pedigree ?
1966 model in storm grey with red vinyl interior. Kept it for 11 years then bought a Hunter which was not a good example. Many years later I bought a Hunter Topaz which was a great car. Always liked Rootes cars but lack of investment killed them. The Hunter went on far too long without any real change while the Cortina kept getting updated.
The Chinese need to bring back the Austin, Morris, Humber and Hillman brands as retro styled electric cars. Imagine a quirky small hatchback resembling the Moggie, a sleek sports car resembling the fastback Sunbeam Rapier, or a big executive car inspired by the Hawks of the early 60s
My guess in the first 2 minutes and without going through the comments is that the brands are now owned by Stellantis via Peugeot who bought out Chrysler UK who owned Rootes and then PSA (Peugeots parent company) merged with FCA (FiatChyslerAutomobiles) to form Stellantis so they have kind of gone full circle to end up back up in bed with Chyrsler again.
Dad had a singer vogue and an arrow Hunter. Loved that car...
I wish that humber and Hunter could come back.possibly as EVs
Always wondered how easy it would be to get hold of an Iranian hunter...
We lost so much with the British car industry. I bet that had the British car survived today it would be solid long lasting cars. Today even BMW and Mercedes has build in obsolesson. Mercedes was the shit to have, Now it is just shit to have.
The Rootes group was a behemoth that was bound for plundering.
Would of loved to work with the team that came up with the Sunbeam Alpine.
If i had the time and the lolly would love to remake it.
Sir William Rootes had he not passed away with liver cancer in 1964 was going to be Chancellor of the then brand new Warwick University .
Our local funeral director had humbers as hearses and my employer has a few car dealerships built on the factory at Linwood they’re is a railway bridge at Linwood and you can still make out it says home of the avenger and sunbeam greetings from Scotland 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Hunter GT the best car I've ever owned It was a sad day when I had to sell it for something more economical
From a purely brand marketing perspective, most if not all of these marques were destined to be a rather awkward sell at best in the modern global era.
One of their most notable highlights, the Hillman Imp was hampered by the ludicrous politically imposed production setup which included engines being manufactured in the midlands, and assembly - in Glasgow…!
The Humber Sceptre you said was a rebadged Hillman Avenger wasn't, it was a rebadged Hillman Hunter with a 1725cc engine with twin Stromberg carbs.
That's correct, many have corrected it.
These brands were common in Malaysia too in the 50s and 60s
I learned to drive in a Hillman Hunter in the mid-70s.