Pax Dei Has Just Ruined It's INSANE Potential
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- Опубліковано 18 гру 2023
- Pax Dei may have just ruined it's reputation in one news article. Many will be asking if Pax Dei is pay to win? And to be honest it seems it probably is heading that way!
playpaxdei.com/en-us/news/inf...
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I should have mentioned, I think this is a little worse than WoW etc because this will be a player driven sandbox economy, whereas it is a Theme park mmo
Yes WoW (Token) is a Theme Park, but Eve Online (Plex) is a sandbox.
I mean, the developers have said they intend for Dax Pei to also have Theme Park features, with explorable regions and group PvE activities. None of that has been released yet though on the public beta.
Perhaps something similar to Albion's premium system is a better fit for Pax Dei, it is a player driven exchange between the game currency and the currency used to actually purchase a subscription.
Although I think Plex in EvE is similar to this but I'm not very familiar with it.
I think there is a solution here that will keep it completely player driven
💯
LOL - I wouldn't call it a sad & unfortunate reality.
If that is their "model" so be it.
Only works if people support it after all.
And the best results will be achieved in big groups anyway.
In which time-order a building gets completed, does it matter?
30 days or 5 days (with "P2W"), in case one would build alone.
Not like I will buy it anyway before I know everything about it.
*'V Rising'* has a nice castle-building simulation going on in which you can make your own private server safe file and also reduce the ressource cost to build stuff to... 0%.
So "creator mode" basically. 😏🤗 If "Pax Dei" has PW2 and no server parameters that can be adjusted in the same manner, well - then people can take their pick.
1.) Will they join an "online server" and make their peace with the fact that they as non-P2W players will most likely never matter much?
2.) Will they also become a P2W player, so that their participation is more noticable?
3.) Will people join a clan of P2W players and just let themself get carried to see where the journey leads to?
4.) Will they not even play, cause it is P2W and there are no private servers?
If the last thing is as such, then I will gladly spectate from afar.
Not going to support such a thing.
But it is not the end of the world when people do support it.
... as long as I can see stuff like "Minas Tirith" in Pax Dei in a few months after release on UA-cam anyway. 😁
A subscription should ensure there is absolutely 0 pay to win. Honestly it should enaure there is no cash shop whatsoever. Ill gladly pay a subscription if everything is earned in game.
I hear what your saying but subscriptions don't or at least haven't stopped cosmetic cash shops
@@Ravynheart yeah unfortunately you're right. I can live with a cosmetic cash shop if there is a sub. Any type of progression skips, or power increase is a deal breaker though.
problem is if you put p2progress in cash shop, i can accept xp boost,inventory extend this is nothing,but p2progress on gear will be bad for a game!@@Ravynheart
They also make the argument that a monthly fee protects against bots completely pointless with their “token” idea.
As soon as you can farm something in-game for real money, that's a huge invitation for bots.
So...I have no idea if they think we're stupid with their explanations?!
I'm starting to get "The Day Before" feelings...
I played the alpha and I can tell you it's already in a way better position than 'The Day Before'.
@@holeefuk1087
Oh yeah... and what does that have to do with the fact that the developers think we're stupid?
By putting forward arguments that supposedly solve the bot problem with the monthly subscription but at the same time incorporate real money transactions into the game?
Isn't that a contradiction in terms for you?
Likewise, problems are created artificially. You should pay for your building area. If you want a bigger one you can pay more!
And so that the game isn't filled with empty player areas/houses, the monthly costs are supposed to solve that.
But the fact that you could install a simple system where (foreign) players could simply have expired areas (from offline players) mined using a simple tool, so that they could then loot extra materials, is of course completely ignored.
In any case, I don't think you had to pay any money in the Alpha. This topic is yet to come. Therefore an alpha is all well and good... but unfortunately it says nothing about the monetization.
And THAT'S EXACTLY WHY I get "The Day Before" feelings...
I think the most important thing to take away from this is the idea that money is a big focus on this game. Thus, any future addition to the game will be built around gaining money in some sort of way. Example: Throne & Liberty. Yes they “listened” to complaints about the monetization but did they actually change it? No. There is still a level of pay to win, and you can expect a trudge of systems added to try to convince you it’s not. I know it’s still too early to say if it’s actually going to be this way. All I’m saying is pay attention to the pattern of game development. Yes it looks good right now, but looking good is just on the surface. I’ll be watching… 👀
My biggest concern with the PLEX like system, is that EVE online has had 20 years to improve the system and it does NOT prevent botting. IMO, it encourages it and honestly makes it so the average player cannot compete with long term players. Most serious EVE players "multi-box", playing on multiple accounts and fueling their own micro-economies, reducing their dependencies and interactions, with other players, reducing cooperation, and they use their massive profits to pay for the PLEX to sub their accounts. Ultimately, you have many players who degrade the experience for new players and don't even contribute to CCPs bottom line because they keep their subscriptions for free.
If you think selling plex gives any advantage, everyone that has played EVE knows you never have.
Ive seen morons drop big $$$$ and lose it the moment they undock becuse $$$ doesnt equal SKILL or experience. Fuck off.
You don't really compete with players in EVE so much as corporations, that's actually an aspect that I like since it reflects real life. Yes, you will struggle to compete against a super entity like Goon Squad started from disjointed corporations that formed into a cohesive alliance like 20 years ago. You can carve out your own niche, you can play for the years it would take to make a dent or create your own corp and team up with other corps to fight them. It's a game that requires years of investment to develop competitive skills but once you have the mastery skill for whatever you prefer to fly at level 5 for all its components the only difference is tactics.
I'd also kinda agree with you that multi-boxing is problematic but holy many games can say they've been online for 20 years with active paid subscribers?
i mean, just playin devils advocate, if i as a player, spend 12 hours per day, crafting, building etc.. should you REALLY be able to keep up with me if you're only putting in a token 2 hours per day? how is that fair to me when i work hard at it if you get the same in fractions of time? Darkfall had this issue and it killed the game. Aventurine listened to the 'casuals', cave in and made crafting etc fast enough that casuals could compete with full timers and the game died literally 6 months later. what you're asking for, is the same paycheck as the full time employee, when you work 5 hours per week. games like this are MEANT to be off balance in the favor of dedicated players. what you DONT realize, is that those of us who CAN spend 12 hours a day gaming, are typically independently wealthy or disabled. so much less than half of a percent of the population. you're literally complaining about 1 person out of 1000 putting in tons of hours and benefitting from it more than you who spends maybe 12 hours per week (if that much). effort vs reward. put in the hours, reap the benefits, or not, your choice.
would we call their sub free if they're spending all week crafting longswords to sell in order to pay for their sub? or would we say that they're 'working' at their pc, 12 hours per day, to make enough income in game, to buy that sub?
I also agree with you that some of these folks will be 'griefing noobs' for their jollies. that falls on the devs to put in protective measures to prevent that type of behavior and then actually enforce it. Darkfall had paid subs griefing noobs for years before coming out with the nithron coins. so we cant blame the griefing on the free sub. dorks will be dorks regardless of the sub cost. there simply needs to be rules that are enforced to stop noob griefing.
People can pay a subscription and still have buildings/plots they are leaving unused.
I think the game should have to be bought, which includes your first month subscription, and then require a monthly subscription for everyone.
If they have a shop then still at least it can stick with 100% cosmetics only.
this is such a bummer and makes me really sad for what this game was eyeing to be :(
fk pax dei fk any in game purchases they already lost my money gamers take a stand please im so fed up with these pay to fail game industry looking to put there hands in our pockets WELL i SAY NO MORE
If pax sponsors them they will remain silent. It is the way. 😢
Completely agreed. No problem buying the game. No problem with a sub. However, the plex/token system is terrible. The fact that they're even considering that turns me off from the game. It seems to me like they would really like to implement such a system, but they're kind of trying to test the waters and see how much blowback there is against it. It's obviously pay to win and I don't want such an idea any where near a game that I'm invested in.
To be honest, I didn’t see that much potential in the alpha test, it was plain, they hyped up the building beyond reasonable game progression.
The alpha was only a focus test for building and crafting. Everything else was barebones and a placeholder, whether it's just not developed yet or it was excluded we have no idea
So there we have it, Pax Dei is DOA.
There's no grey area here: plex/tokens/bonds is P2W, period. It could be worse, sure, but P2W should never be acceptable, much less defended or shilled.
Add a watered down version of the building decay system from Rust and this problem goes away. Make ppl actively have to farm for a weekly tax/tribute to maintain buildings. It can't be harsh as Rust otherwise ppl will leave the game. A small weekly upkeep cost of in game farmed resources would do. If no one pays then the building becomes deleted or crumbles.
This exactly! Upkeep would help indeed.
Actually, Pax Dei feels a lot like Rust to me but instead of FPS survival it's medieval fantasy 3rd person action combat survival. I think Pax Dei/this "new" genre they created has as much potential as Rust had in 2013, but with the difference that the RPG audience is larger than the FPS audience. Unfortunately, I have a feeling they they're gonna waste that potential and that the launch will be similar to New World's: huge success for a month then the population will drop 95% and it's basically impossible to recover unless you have Amazon helping you fail upwards.
I'll never support any game with a token. Many will tho. Lots of fools out there.
You could also simply install a system in which player areas/structures lose their protection after the clan has been offline for a certain period of time.
There could also be a simple and quick destruction tool where you can get some of the resources back. In this way, the active players could dismantle/destroy structures of offline players themselves and get something in addition.
Problem solved.
But you can also present this as a problem that is difficult to solve and simply make extra money..yes... -.-
The plex card idea is not pay to win for the most part! It gives people who have lots of time and limited money the ability play the game and pay for thier subs. It also gives the people who are limited on time in life because of work, family school etc the ability to gain some cash and not fall to far behind everyone else. The only thing that would really need to be put in for some balance so it's not abused would be the amount of cards you could buy or sell in a month.
I get the logic but at the end of the day, the richest people could have the biggest strength
A pay to win sub Rust Clone.
That's a big pass from me, dawg.
Depends on if it’s via boosts/buffs or not, if there’s limits, etc.
If a Token/PLEX system becomes a problem depends on how the combat mechanics and the sandbox as whole turn out.
If throwing money at the game gives you an advantage, then it depends on how that advantage turns out if I'd consider it a problem.
If the combat is somewhat like in Eve, a player with the shiniest gear may venture out into a PvP area, get ambushed by players role playing as robber gang, he dies, get's looted and just lost all his shiny stuff.
The paying player could also stay in the PvE only zone all the time and show off and grind away at PvE. But I don't know if that will be worthwhile for them.
Way too many "Ifs" for me to jump to a conclusion yet.
My main concern would be if they support multiboxing like eve online where you can pay to get enough characters ingame, and than just farm with no solo player being able to compete. These players are getting so much ing cash even loosing characters to bans is not a problem because they just buy and equip another.
Another one bites the dust...
It never stops botting, it only makes it so the developers get some share of the whale pie instead of everything going to botters.
honestly if you low income like me a wow token is actually helpful for me. i can make enough gold to buy wow token either for game time or help buy blizz bucs to help buy a game like wows newest dlc coming out or another game. yes it is a double edge sword but it can be positive for some people like me.
This game seems to share some similarities with Rust, they should take a look at their business model before going p2w.
Ever MMO already has a black market to buy gold. They might as well.
Just sell us the game no P2w!
hey jay good to see you outside eternum
i wont be paying subs to work. paying to play yes i can do that. I wont pay an ongoing fee to play a game ever again. Especially like other mmo's they change your progresion at the drop of a hat to make more money from players this is an abuse of consumer rights and i wont take part. The devs might be good but thats what you should be afraid of. Good monetisers. ill let asmonds crowd destroy the game first then i might look at playing when they move on to the next hype.
The mere fact that they used such specificity in their own rules around micro transactions is very damning to me. Just as you state in your well articulated monologue this keeps wide open the avenue of indirect pay-for-convenience. I tried making this point in pax-dei-chat and it was not well received even though it’s a very valid concern. The “community dev” that responded came close to attacking me over it but then not shortly after made the comment “well that’s not in the plans at least now”. It’s almost like they think they’re able to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes and we aren’t smart or observant enough to see through it.
The game has promise but it is no where near ready for a pay for early access let alone a subscription based service. Honestly it felt very clunk with movement, menus, combat and really felt like a bad asset flip with UE5.
The fact that they also have the 1-2-3 / 2-1-3 / 3-1-2 interlinked crafting dependency really just makes me believe they are most definitely going to allow indirect pay-to-win with pay-for-convenience to buy all of your required level up resources for crafting. If they go that route I don’t think this game will ever have much longevity.
Too many disconnects and poorly implemented systems (and yes, I’ve played the alpha). The level of grind honestly is even worse than that of OnceHuman…
Still looking good to me. Eve developers know more about what a player driven economy needs than any other MMO devs.
They have to pay for servers and bandwidth. But none the less, this game is a staple, I can see so many developers just copying what they did and reskinning it.
looking rough
After 6 months or a year or paying monthly they will just add pay to win. MAking all the time you spent in the game obsolete will not play
Yep.
DOA ! it was obvious !
I enjoy your videos very informative very good points of view very smooth amsr like.
Thank you very much :)
Looks like New World
This is will be a new game.... They will not have the tools to really understand money flows at the beginning.
It took new world alot of time to build those tools. By the time you realise your have a problem it's normally to late.
I'd rather have a subscription service than pay-to-win. I feel like the cash shops have been horribly abused by almost all modern studios, to the point that having a subscription service with no cash shop would be welcomed by the gaming community.
This might be both
you children have no clue what P2W is.... and it shows.
@@trumpsextratesticle8590 I know exactly what P2W is. I've been gaming since the 90s. You fanboys just can't stop dick riding long enough to look at a game objectively.
@@trumpsextratesticle8590enlighten us, my king
Structures you’ve built de-spawning in a survival/crafting game because you haven’t paid a sub sounds unfun. Especially when building is so costly/time consuming like Pax Dei . Should be able to move plot (like once human) or get contributed resources back if shared plot. One time fee and optional battle pass is most I like to spend in a game. Monetization sounds to heavy.
Go play Free to play games then. Nobody wants you quiting because you died once and lost everything, crying already like a little girl.... and you call yourself a grown ass man..LOL Comedy
Rust's upkeep solves this problem. I think that Rust has done many things right over the years, any upcoming survival games could learn a thing or two from a game like that.
@@baska- It doesn't solve the problem. Rust has regular server wipes...if you lose progress in Rust then it doesn't really matter, since in a couple of weeks or so it will all start again anyway. This is not a survival game in the same vein as Rust either, it's an MMO with a persistent open world.
What you build in survival games like Rust or Ark or games like that typically have utility only...crafting stations, storage etc. MMOs typically have swag involved...and players want to show those off in their player owned houses. They want to display Trophy X that they got from killing some almighty mega boss...and whatever other trinkets, fluff and rarities they might have accrued through in-game content completion.
If you walk away from Rust for a couple of weeks or a month, or several months, it doesn't matter. However, if forced to provide a weekly upkeep in an MMORPG:
a) That's going to quickly become very, very tedious; even if it is fairly trivial.
b) Prevent players from just maintaining an active sub whilst taking a short time away from the game when either necessary or when players run out of content, because they know they are going to lose their stuff by not providing weekly upkeep. They will likely cancel instead...whereas without total loss many will maintain a sub even if they don't play or use the service periodically (crazy, but people do...because it's just less hassle to some people. In fact most subscription based services, not just games, bank on this happening...Netflix, Amazon Prime etc)
c) MMO populations tend to swing up and down in between content drops and expansions. When new content is added large portions of the player base come back, play that content and then drift away again until the next content arrives. In the event of someone leaving the game for a while, loss of in-game progress/items etc will deter players returning.
If you play an MMO say for a year or so...and then for whatever reason you have to take a week or two away from the game and so cannot contribute your weekly upkeep and as a result you lose everything...that's a really bad idea for persistent world MMO player retention. They would need a robust system that in the event of the loss of a land plot, the building gets destroyed but the contents get moved to some location accessible should the player return i.e. some storage in an NPC city or whatever.
Conversely, there does need to be some limit. Way back in the day Star Wars Galaxies had a maintenance system on player owned structures and housing that was paid for with in-game credits. As the game progressed and people accrued more money than they could reasonably spend they would put money on their houses to avoid the nagging system emails. I used to put money on them just for the sake of seeing the number go up, and on one house had 189 years worth of maintenance on it by the time I left the game. That was a problem also...as a Mayor of a player run metropolis city, the largest player built civic area possible, I know all too well the issue of players leaving the game never to return but their houses never degraded because the maintenance never ran out.
Check out Eternal Tombs guys. We wont have to deal with this nonsense.
Oh boy! Gonna start programming my bot software. Bout to make a fortune!! 💰🤑💵
in wow, pre-raid BiS is often BoEs that go for absurd prices. Token is a big part of top tier raiding :/
Did you get to play the alpha jay ?
The PLEX system has been in EVE Online for 15 years now, in a pure player-based economy that money the person brings into the game by external purchase goes to a player spending time (e.g. selling coal). If real loss exists, everything is produced by players, money brought in stays in and naturally filters out. It won't be an issue.
Albion online and OSRS have a token system too, player economies and it works out.
All for subscriptions, if the money moves the game forward.
lul, premium trading is fully fine. otherwise it will just be a black market without any benefits. or does gold trading not happen in games without ingame trading of gold?
Pax dei is an overrated non existing thing at this moment. We haven't seen 95% of the game at all. And I wasn't ok with what they showed us so far..
Guess I'll just never play an mmo again, not getting my money for that shit
So we buying this game and also paying for sub fee? Like dragonflight wow?
the fee is for "land holders" so if you quit the game, and stop paying, your house get deleted... so other new players can use the space... Did you even look into whats being discussed or did you take some mouth-breathers click-bait video and run with it like a moron?
They want a cut from the RMT-botting upfront with PLEX/tokens. Makes sence
That fee is straight BS. Games like Rust are b2p and like 9/10 other survival games you need materials for "daily upkeep" not a sub fee... This is simply trying to force a sub. All this means is as long as you are subbed you're stuff won't disappear, however you don't even have to play. Whereas Rust and others like it, if you stay logged out for extended periods of time, your stuff will end up decaying.
We don't know if the PVP will affect territories either. That is a big question that needs an answer. How are these plots manipulated. If it's Azmon and his cronies buy/get one day 1 and own it as long as they sub, this game going to be DOA.
Agreed, token is p2w when boiled down to its core. Even if gear isn't buyable, I'm betting the mats for the gear are.
Is Rust played on deva servers or on privately hosted servers like Minecraft? Also is Rust getting regular updates?
@@McDudesnope, Rust has no official servers and has had no updates since 2013. Fr tho, OP speaking facts.
Pax Dei hasn't shown any potential yet. A hollow UE5 landscape with 20 year old building mechanics. So few good games these days you mmo creators are hyping up just about anything.
I basically agree with your assessment on p2w and will wait to see for pax dei because unfortunately nowadays p2w isnt a deal breaker for me. But it very much needs to be on the new world end of the spectrum.
I've played almost every single mmorpg released in the last 20 years and if there's a thing crystal cleart to me it's that I'm never ever gonna be playing any more games in which in-game currency can be bought with real money. It just ruins everyones experience on the long term, it's frustrating af if you dont have the money and excesively expensive even if you do have the money. Ultimately it becomes either boring or unfair (probably both). I'll wait for now and see what they finally do, but if they do that I'm sorry but I'm out of the boat after years of waiting for it. Not worth it.
Have you played albion? There was no problem with it (at least from my point of view) as they have very good economy model
"everyone" NO, its ruins yours because YOUR fun dpends on some non-issue because you been brainwashed into thinking it does.
I WILL ENJOY THIS GAME NO MATTER WHAT MONETARY SYSTEM THEY HAVE
SSPEAK FOR YOURSELF.
@@trumpsextratesticle8590 Lmao excuse me for hurting your feels. It was just an opinion. Enjoy the game
@@druxth9998 THATS your reply, some over used "troll" reply.. no wonder you cry so much if that is your emotional maturity. SMH
Im embarrassed for you.
Since you can lose your stuff when you die ... i think its not going to be a problem with people buying gear for money
It's less gear and maybe mats to craft the gear
Destiny 2 incoming
I think you might be jumping the gun a little bit here. Yes they mentioned looking at a token system but went on to say that it's not a sure thing. It's only a discussion item and there is no guarantee and Koloko has said. It definitely has generated quite the discussion over on their discord so far today.
In cases like this, it's almost better to jump the gun a little and just signal that we don't want that kind of monetization. If they listen, good, if they never intended it the way it reads, also good.
@@Pretorax jumping the gun is bad... look at all the comments already saying THEY WILL NOT PLAY.... and nothing "P2W" isnt EVER MENTIONED...LOL
YOU OVER EMOTIONALIZED CHILDREN KILL GAMES.
@@trumpsextratesticle8590when you use caps you look a lot like an over emotional person, dawg.
@@baska- LOL, this dude is scared of caps (Emphesis). Dont ever join the military kiddo.
@@trumpsextratesticle8590 scared of caps? Yes, very. You do realize that saying "never join the military" and calling people "kiddo" sends a message that you're insecure and probably a loser, right?
Shame.
For me "Pay to win" - is selling in shop strong special items for real money only, which can't be achieved playing game for free. If I can buy gold - if means that someone can farm it. For me it is ok trade: you choose if you want to spend time in game grinding gold or spend time getting money IRL and just use them to buy stuff in game.
For example, in New World you can do the same: find some gold traders (not hard to find websites with such offers) and buy like 100k gold with ~30$ and not waste 2 days grinding it. This is forbidden in game, but noone of like ~30 people I know selling/buying gold got banned. And it looks pretty fair, so people who can't spend much time in game can invest their IRL money to be competetive in terms of gear.
Selling gold in a sandbox with pvp means someone who can play a lot and spend a lot will just always be ahead
In other words, you believe that direct p2w is p2w, but indirect p2w isn't p2w. Absolutely incredible.
No signs of pay-to-win.
Cash becomes pay-to-win when it outpaces what's reasonably possible from in game progression.
Since the in game price of those tokens will be set by the player driven economy it will balance it self out.
No. The fact you can earn stuff by playing vs buying is a very strange definition. Someone with millions could just buy everything....I mean if that is the system obviously
@@jayoddity There will be always be people too naive to understand how RMT Tokens ruin the economy and are just pay 2 win with additional steps. Thats why it works and creeped into the genre so much.
I argued with plenty of people that still deny the existence of pay2win in WoW...
@@Dangerous1939I believe that the reason why people defend tokens is because they are unable to criticize the game they love. It's a psychological issue, almost Stockholm syndrome.
@@baska- Yeah i agree, i can see that with WoW Players.
I play WoW since 2008 and i still play. But it clearly has a very greedy monetization and is p2w. BUT me and many others still play it because it is still fun, even though it could be a much better version of itself
@@Dangerous1939 well said, brother.
Yup its dead for me now. fuck this shit.
I am not surprised that Pax Dei is considering a "Plex" system similar to EVE online. The crafting and language they've used to describe their goals for the in-game economy seem inspired by EVE. And I am not as worried about this style of pay-to-win, as other players actually get things they want in the exchange for the resources they trade to the person selling the tokens. No one says EVE Online or ESO is pay-to-win (I mean you can pay for a carry in ESO, but who cares). The thing I question is whether people really want to join the Pax Dei economy. Like the player numbers for EVE Online are low (2-4k average players). Who wants to mine coal or chop trees all day!?!. Even if the game is as beautiful as Pax Dei or New World, gathering resources to participate in a modern, virtual neoliberal economy is about as much fun as going to work in real life. You might enjoy it for a while but it isn't a popular fantasy.
Yeah I am actually fine with this monetization, especially as a player who now has more money than time and (as you said) doesn't want my game time to be made up of 99% farming to earn gold. Also, the reality in MMOs these days is people are either buying gold from 3rd party sites, more rarely directly from other players, or from the game developers through systems like Pax is proposing. I'd much rather have the money going to the game itself so it can keep running and be improved. The trick, though, is balance - you don't want a system in which you have to start spending $1000's of dollars just to keep up with others or afford the basic items you need to play or progress.
I agree, if you have a p2w system with a 'player driven economy' at some point people will stop producing the high end stuff since they are putting in their time and energy and someone else gets to reap the rewards of actually using the stuff to adventure.
EVE online has more than 2-4K average players. STOP SPREADING LIES
Try 17K- 26K
@@trumpsextratesticle8590 Good to know. Where are you finding those numbers? I just pulled my numbers from the steam charts... my points really only depends on the relative popularity of EVE to the other games mentioned. Do you think these big economy simulators are fun?
How is farming in game money to purchase game time PTW? If you can buy tokens for real money and sell for in game money, that's PTW
Because that's how it works. You buy a token, and sell it for gold. The players in game can farm gold, and spend the gold for game time. But a rich person can just buy tokens with real money and then get gold
i mean, i get your stance on pay to win. i just have a difficult time seeing an 'in game purchase' of a card thats only good for sub time as pay to win. it actually will eliminate the ability of the 'china farmers' to come in and sell in game currency on the web. which happens in EVERY mmo. most mmo's do something to try and police the issue. but you cant stop every china farmer website from selling mats and gold. so they eliminate the 'gold selling' by eliminating the third party and selling you the card online. as for selling the card online, i see broke people in the world rejoicing because it gives them a chance at a monthly sub through crafting etc. so they dont gotta pay irl cash for a monthly sub. seems odd but po folks wanna game too yeah?
just saying i see both sides of it. Darkfall did the same thing, in game nithron coins which were purchased with real world cash. but the coins got you only cosmetics or subscriptions. no 'real' advantage over other players that are paying for the game aside from $15/month.
Game companies just cant keep fucking up their games.
Man I swear you can't have shit in MMO genre
At this point, I don't care at all, please just give us a new MMO to try!
Destiny 2 is like that. Now it's stupid me i just play the game at this point to glitch it out and make the game pure chose.
I honestly can’t wrap my head around game devs not listening to their future player base. P2w = archeage…. It’s not going to work out and instead of having a long lasting game with plenty of income, they will have a trainwreck.
Eve is still going strong WoW too... people buy it, people sell it. sun still rises.
one more game to ignore. Not gonna waste my time on some p2w shiet. I don't mind paying for the game or monthly sub, or even paying por DLC/expansion. But p2w features kills a game pretty quickly because of whales, so I'm not gonna waste my time. This game is already dead to me.
Well scratch that off my list PTW is cancer for gaming I will not be playing this then.
Good review, I agree that the 'PLEX' system would be a mistake and have said so on their Discord Monetization tab.
tell me you know nothing about the "plex" system without telling me you dont know.
I see nothing wring with this.. The best way to work around bots is to allow you to kill the bots. And, you will never take buying gold out of a game. So why not make it with a Token/Plex system. Where at least the studio is making the money off of the grinding. If not, players will be able to just go onto a third party website and buy in game gold for real work money and the study gets nothing from it.
Why are so many people okay with having to have a subscription to play a video game? You have to have like 5O monthly subscriptions just enjoy life now a days. It's insanity and we should be working against it. We're all getting ripped off!
I am okay with paying for a game if the game is good value.
That is some incredible entitlement you have there. Why shouldn't companies have an influx of funds monthly for a live service game. These games aren't free to keep running
You're not buying a PS2 game. You're playing on their servers and a game that needs updates and maintnance.
50 subscriptions? That sounds like a personal problem. Only thing I pay monthly for is rent, electricity, internet, and phone service, (water and heat is included in my rent).
That's 4 things only.
Let me guess: you're ok with netflix sub cause they add new shows every now and then but if it's a game and they add new duns, new bosses, new raids, new gear, new cosmetics, better servers, ect. then it should be free because........???? Best rpgmmo games i've ever played came with a sub, zero P2W (everyone was equeal) and constant content coming up almost every month.
I'm just gonna say it, if you can't afford to play a game just dont play. Why actively ruin a game over the poors? This is'nt that much money.
every MMO is dead in a moment it looses playerbase, those "poor" are usually the majority of the playerbase, so feel free to play it on dead servers maybe?
I think we need to see how the game system will works before say anything. PaxDei is a SANDBOX MMO full loot and is copying Albion Online systems and in Albion Online does not matter how much real money a cash player put in the game because it will not make him win or even become good or important in any content in the game. So the community really does not care about it. The cash player only helps the game economy and makes others players gets rich and stronger when the economy is driven by players in a full loot PVE/PVP system. I don't see any big deal at the moment.
I don't understand why people complain about pay to win, but then won't pay a subscription. Like wtf? Do you think the devs are just going to produce content for nothing after initial purchase? I love sub games so long as it's ONLY sub and not sub + P2W which I've seen with Chinesium games.
The sad part is that this monetization is almost necessary for this type of game to make any money. Sandbox PVP MMOs are a very niche market as it is, so they will have to extract money early and as often as they can before the majority of players quit, and then pull as much money as they can from the few enfranchised players that stick around. Other Full-Sandbox PVP MMOs like this, Life is Feudal MMO, Mortal Online 1 and 2, have had this exact system and ended up exactly the same: dead or barely holding on to 500-1000 players.
There will be a lot of PvE I hope, but if they have most of the map be PvP that will lose me too.
Rust would dare to disagree with your statement.
@@baska- Rust isn't an MMO
@@travellingslim to clarify, my comment was regarding the part where you mention monetization only, I somewhat agree with the rest.
Now, I would agree that Rust isn't exactly the same type of game because it's not persistent, however I would still make the argument that Rust's monetization/business model could work for a sandbox PvP MMO, since Rust is a sandbox PvP online game. Maybe the bigger issue isn't the niche market, but the games themselves like the ones you mentioned.
@@baska- The biggest factor IMO is that games like Rust, 7 Days to Die, Conan Exiles, etc. let you refresh the gameplay with mods, smaller server and map sizes with fewer players that wipe often, etc. to keep things fresh and new. When you have one huge persistent sandbox map for the whole game (sandbox i.e. players are the content), once the playerbase falls below a certain threshold or people get bored of the novelty of just fighting for no reason, the game feels dead and the death spiral begins.
If they add anything to do with buying money it will ruin the ingame economy period because the players will put insane prices on the market expecting players to spend real world money to make more money in game im sorry but its already messed up
To many people jumping to conclusions here. P2W is giving a player some sort of advantage over others that an average player can not aquire without using real money. If it goes the way of Eve Online or Wurm Online both mmo games I have a history with then I won't class it as a P2W. If the economy is truely player ran then you will be able to aquire anything and everything that someone else has regardless of if you use real money or not what it truely comes down to is time investment. For example I work a full time job I do not always have time to grind away for hours on end playing catchup to be able to stand a chance I have no problem buying ingame cash from time to time hell I did it for years when still playing Wurm Online, if you can buy a distinct advantage then I would agree it is P2W but if it is simply to expadite the process of being able to buy things be it resources or whatever from other players then no that is not P2W that is a ingame currency that feeds the player economy.
IF IT IS NOT A STAND ALONE GAME AND CANNOT BE PLAYED AS SUCH THEN I WILL HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. BAD ENOUGH IT WANTS YOU TO ALSO SUBSCRIBE TO A 3RD PARTY. I WILL NOT PLAY ANY OF THOSE GAMES. IT'S EVEN WORSE THAN GAMBLING AND I DON'T DO THAT EITHER.
Throne and liberty is pay to win too
Aye
I personally do not like subscription-based models when it comes to video games since they are kind holding your time spent in the game hostage. Which I feel is kind of underhanded especially when the game never really ends and/or it already has an upfront cost to it.
Well thats Pax dai off my list. Thanks Bro. I have heard enough to know they have no respect. At the point of " Buy to play + sub model" thats not working out too well for Mortal online 2, its a very unnatractive model. 1 or the other. is simple.
Either buy to play, and pay for expansions cosmetics etc - Or Subscription. Sub and you play, unsub you dont play.
simple. not both.
dear god, its amazing how many of you over emotionalized children are sheep, letting some mouthbreather do your thinking for you on some click-bait youtube video LOL
PLEASE DO NOT EVER VOTE OR HAVE CHILDREN.
I agree and think that every MMO should have the following business model:
P2P + free limited demo to attract new players (like FFXIV or osrs). If possible no cash shop at all.
i think it's still early for them to reconsider, so hopefully they'll do it.
You ran pass probably 10 reasons I don't want to pay to share a survival world with others lol just a random box in the world just give us dedicated server lol
Love the token system, pisses off the neets so much because they think they should get the best everything because they play all day.
Maybe they should get a job xd
What about someone who is mega rich and doesn't need a job but can play all day, they will have an insane advantage
@@jayodditythen they'll say "but the mega rich would RMT regardless". Unfortunately some people can't understand the fact that p2w is p2w, RMT is RMT and they are both bad things nobody should accept or defend.
This is false? theres no evidence on their site that their model has changed.
playpaxdei.com/en-us/news/information/where-we-stand-on-monetization
There is. I think I just posted it but here playpaxdei.com/en-us/news/information/where-we-stand-on-monetization
PLEX is not bad a thing and it's not P2W. Yes you can achieve things faster by investing real money in your character but it doesn't make you broken or stronger than anybody. Plexing is sure worst out of all those 5 options IF there in-game features in which you can burn off money. Why ? Because the less people burn money the higher that inflation will be since the 1% of "plex" buying people will hoard a massive amount of money and control the market. You can look at EVE, sure tehre's inflation BUT the amount of things that take your money from getting new ships and stuff is very high. If they decide to use PLEX as a valid way to sell the game from day 1 it may cause problems. Yet it's not p2w. You can't just magically spend 100k$ and win the game with it like Diablo Immortal or some other gacha games.
Saying pay to win is like calling somebody a racist it’s been overused so much that it’s meaningless peoples definition of paid to win can be anything if you can buy endgame currency it’s paid to win because you can buy the gear that other people make paid to win
I agree words are losing their meaning lately, especially when they are used for political reasons.
But not P2W I don't think. Maybe younger people are confused, but P2W is very clear to me: when the developer sells *any* kind of advantage for real money.
Gold, gear, higher exp rates, literally anything, regardless if you can acquire it if you play long enough.
thats more like incentive to let poor people play whales get rewarded for helping players who cant afford memberships
Its abit clickbaity title, dont think they ruined it.
they merely try to include everyone from poor to whales and pretending like whaling isnt a issue in games like new world ure smoking something.
This is the most balanced way to fund a game if u ask me makes it so that instead of chinese botters getting the actual developers get it.
Ok so dis Channel IS thé more generic one for all kind of news and thé décembre one IS only nw ? Fookin hell so hard to type on a french phone with french auto correction 😅
Yes. Basically I can't trust New World anymore so main channel is now everything
No matter what, there will always be whales and RMTers. Having a 'premium' currency at least tries to balance that out. Albion Online is a good example and does try its best, where you can use either gold (it's premium) AND silver to purchase sub time. As for exchange rates, they add fees if there's too much silver in the economy while the orders of gold and silver shift between supply and demand.
What matters most about Pay to Win is if I'm able to compete using my time compared to a guy who swings their wallet around. At least in that game, I can effectively demolish someone who out gears me by taking the time to learn the game. The only thing I like about P2W is how a majority of them are essentially loot pinatas in Albion.
it was never a grest game to begin with lol its complete garbage. i dont understand how anyone thought this was a great game to begin with. now a bad game turns into p2w? wow what a surprise.
"insane potential" ....Bruh, this game seemed like it would get old in a week. Pretty world != good game.
Just making it now clickable
I'm not sure what the problem is with this type of monetization.
The people that fund the game and keep the servers around are not the 'I buy this once then never spend money again' players.
It shouldn't give you direct advantages over other players but compensating playtime with money is pretty much a must these days for MMORPGs. Otherwise the only ones that are winning are the no-lifers.
1000%
So you're literally saying that you would rather play a sandbox game which whales are king instead of a sandbox game which no lifers are king.
Being someone who can play maybe 10 hours a week, respectfully, you disappoint me and people who think like you are the reason why the MMORPG genre is doomed.
@@baska- I would argue one should be able to compensate for playtime with money. Not invalidate the effort other people put in by swiping a credit card.
If you don't implement any mechanics into your mmorpg allowing you to pay to catch up, then your game is not a game, it's a job. Wanna be competitive? better play 24/7. You wanna take a week break ? Now you fell behind and can never catch up.
That's not feasible.
Also, if there was no incentive to pay how will you fund further development and keep everything running. How can you pay your employees and organize events IRL etc. ?
There is no free lunch in this world.
@@baska- And to answer your question. Yes.
It's supposed to be a game, something you spend some money on to have fun.
Not something that requires you to spend all your time on, just to keep up.
You shouldn't be able to just swipe and beat everyone that didn't swipe as hard as you. But you should be able to swipe and make up for the time you couldn't put in.
@@pinie111 I wholeheartedly disagree with your premise, argument, reasoning behind it and I firmly believe that spending money to get stronger/catch up/compensate/P2W in any shape or form in competitive online games (a.k.a where some players win and others lose) is a disgrace.
As I previously said as someone who doesn't have a lot of free time, respectfully, your mentality is disappointing and one of the reasons why the MMORPG genre is doomed and why we will unlikely get the chance to have the real gaming experience that some of us did ~20 years ago again, before P2W was introduced mainly by Eastern developers like a boiling frog.
Now that we got that out of the way, absolutely MMORPGs must implement catch up mechanics, or else new player acquisition becomes abysmal. However, these catch up mechanics absolutely shouldn't and don't need to involve real money. If you take a break from the game and can't catch up with those who play 24/7, it's a symptom of poor game design not a reason to introduce P2W.
Online games obviously need constant revenue to pay for servers, developers, customer service, anti-cheat subscriptions, etc. and usually needs to generate some profit as well, but if you actually think that P2W is the only incentive a game can create to pay the bills, you're absolutely wrong. Obviously there's no free lunch, I ain't no freeloader and don't expect a good game to be free to play or even cheap for that matter, but adding P2W shouldn't be the answer to anything.
The fact that people (we) argue over if P2W is good or bad, or how much P2W is acceptable is just another sign of how badly games and developers were able to brainwash folks into almost asking for P2W in online games, ultimately just very sad to watch.
Tokens are fine, keeps The economy going by paying poor kids a sub
Also allows massive pay to win potential though
@@jayoddity dude drops $10,000 for mats/gear, gets run over by a 50 man gang, loses everything "Pay 2 Win" LMFAO
keep spreading disinfo.
@@trumpsextratesticle8590you basically described P2W in your example. My brother you're either delusional or a shill, probably both.
Umm 100% this game will not be pay to win