Why is this spell so bad?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- It would have been cool if they'd established a system for generating NPCs without having an existing spawnpoint for them, but Floating Chaos probably wasn't going to be the thing to get them to do that.
Songs used: Hailfire Peaks - Banjo-Tooie OST
Knowing all this, something I'm very interested to see more about are the summons that have been mentioned for Elden Ring.
Will From have overhauled their NPC generation systems to allow creating an NPC from nothing anywhere on any map?
Will there be duplicate reservoirs of summonable NPCs on each map, or maybe one special set of NPCs that actually can move between maps?
I imagine they'll have to have done something in order to make travel between areas seamless when you're riding the mount.
I would guess that maybe the NPCs are only available in the overland or only in the legacy dungeons, so the summons only need to be pasted into each of those? Maybe?
You can only summon in some special pillars
@@alexepic3255 how do you get in the pillars?
With NPCs, I don't see why they couldn't just add a single (or small few) NPC object on each map, then set it's skin and behavior through a script that checks which of those it should have based on which one the player is going for. But maybe that's why I'm not a professional.
Very interesting. I always just assumed it was a trolling attempt to make us feel inferior to enemies. Like the white corona spell that Gael uses like a beast, while ours is this pathetic thing.
This spell's mechanics have always been something I've complained about, really wish they took the effort of programming something special for it Eg. aiming at enemies near the spell caster or the spell caster's current lock on target(As with how it stands, you need to be locked on at the point you cast the spell for it to remember who to shoot at).
I think I got a good guess why work-around type implementations like this happen. I think its because the actual design of bullets/npcs/levels/weapons/etc. are done by those more design/art oriented, using the various tools and mechanics their actual programmers made for them. Their programmers may already have a bunch of work all over the game to do and when someone wants to design something specific like this, the designer may just prefer find a work around using the existing resources for creation in the game. Looking at the AI/action scripts, params, and other things really gives that feeling.
It's sad how most of the spells are underpowered or lacks utility in the game. You have quite the sorcery scrolls, divine tomes and pyromancy tomes and each gives you from 2 to 5 spells you can use. But when you get the likes of chaos bed vestiges, crystal soul spear and lightning storm/sunlight spear, all other direct damage spells gets forgotten.
And utility spells just aren't useful enough to care about. Hidden weapon? Your moveset is enough to know your weapon, so you aren't fooling anyone, and doesn't last long enough to benefit of someone's doubt. Replenishment? The healing rate is so insignificant you don't even notice, and heals are usually for the moment you need it, not for later. Vow of silence? 15 lousy seconds. One spends half of those seconds either chasing someone or running away from multitudes, and the other half isn't enough to kill your target. The list goes on and long...
Absolutely loved the use of the banjo tooie music it fit too well
Banjo tooie music from the lava and ice level! This makes me so happy right now!
Zullie is a certified Dark Souls scientist
Coming back to this, I wonder if the advancements made for Elden Ring would save this spell.
This just reminds me of all of the absolutely bonkers hacked spells in Dark Souls 2, like the Fireball Shotgun spell and this one I saw where the Invader made an Acid Cloud above the target and it began raining down Forbidden Suns.
basically, the engine wasnt made for a spell like this
Ahh software development. “This little decision we made 6 years ago means your new fireball spell can’t be pointed left or right. Why not? It would take 2 months to rewrite a fundamental part of the engine”
Really cool what you did with the music 👌
banjo-kazullie
For something called Floating CHAOS it sure has some very rigid targeting mechanics.
They could have made the fireball shoot at random ennemies in range when not locked on, which is far better not nothing at all. They could even set it up for the ones with less HP to finish them off more easily. I think they were just lazy
Hey Zullie, there is a pretty well known trick to Nameless king - if you turn around when he casts his big lightning spell, it does not hit you. I wonder, why this happens and what kind of mechanic triggers the effect? Is it possible that Nameless King not the only one who is affected by it?
I think I saw someone else go over that recently.
i come here for the music, i dont even play this game
"So it can make decisions our fireball can't"
Welp that's a sentence I would have never expected to read
Our fireball just wasn't the brightest spark
@@Genasidal thats a terrible joke i love it
Who knew a fireball would be so good at filing his taxes
Our fireball is a failure at everything their fireball is good at doing what its supposed to do
what a clever fire ball :]
Something I'm really curious is why there's a pillar in Consumed King's Garden that spills blood when we hit it. It's just only one and is near the stairs where you fight the two cathedral knights before the fog gate.
it's a miracle. praise christ.
@@TaddiestMason the sun*
Maybe they've hid a npc in there lol
The Miracle has shown itself , to seek the penitent and reveal its holy light.
Consumed king’s wood
Zullie just Absolutely Murdering Dunnel at the beginning is so funny to me for some reason
There's just something about a Witch with a big ass sword murderising someone
Donnel deserves no mercy.
@@rafaelopereira2469 you make a good point I hate his Katana
I don’t get the joke
they's livid
Player version: *pew pew*
Demon Cleric version: *TOUHOU*
Demon Cleric is best 2hu
@@xXbrokenvoidXx cant disagree with that
[Muffled Nuclear Fusion in the background]
the angel's last word spell always catches me
I got the pyromancy expecting the demon ruins fireballs, but instead I got a bubble that pops after 5 seconds
"No, we have demon fireballs at home"
Seriously, it's insulting how Dunnel's version can just whittle you down if you're running pure melee, punshing you for even coming close.
When YOU use it, it sucks. Lame as hell
it'd probably have been better if it shot more than three times. like, if it was something like a pyromancy version of homing crystal soulmass. it just stays above you for a while and fires at nearby enemies.
Hell even like soul rain or lightning storm from ds2
@@ivanlagayacrus1891 I mean we already have firestorm and chaos storm which kinda do the same thing.
@@residentwievle4 nah, the effect doesnt linger while youre still able to move making them useless, whereas the ds2 spells created floating orbs that could allow for traps and combos
I think they should have just made it fire slower.
Why not just make it like the Homing Soul Mass spell but instead of 5 hovering bits you get 3 bits inside the ball that trigger in the same manner.
Had the same idea after watching this video
LMAO well this solves this issue
but dont soulmass fire only once?
_That's an interesting solutiion._ Hadn't thought of that. :\
@@vittocrazi That's why they're saying the projectiles would spawn in the same spot as the fireball "turret"; it would look unique but essentially function as Homing Soulmass.
I love that masterfully used Banjo Tooie ost
Easily the best part of this one, IMO.
And also Cleric has one target and one target only to shoot at... so even if his fireball wasnt a specific npc with AI it would probably work better for him than player.
If you bring the Black Knight over from where he's hiding behind the illusory wall, the fireballs actually will target him. They're smart enough to figure out multiple targets, though I think it might be simply prioritizing targets that are closer.
@@ZullietheWitch Same for the NPCs you can summon, Discount Tarkus and Spicy Beatrice
I absolutely love the editing of Hailfire Peaks swapping back and forth from Ice to Lava, very good touch
that was my favorite part of the video, so much nostalgia
I hadn't noticed it changed between the two, It's amazing.
Hailfire Peaks? I've never heard of that. What are you talking about? And in what part of this video is the reference?
@@Knight_Of_Eleum_Loyce its the music in the video. its from banjo tooie :)
@@jeffreypeterson2 Okay. But swapping back and forth from ice to lava? Does that mean the song changes when you go from lava to ice? That comment was worded really weird (Top Corgi's comment).
Creepy how the sandworm is just waiting for you underground
Yeah dont think I do not see you down there wormy.
Where else would it wait for you? Anor Londo?
@@misery1500 elden ring...
They should have just left the orb in the air and made so that each fire arrow consumed some FPs. It would be a much better spell, an automatic turret that acts independently
Interesting idea. Would be a fun thing to splash into melee builds who may not care as much for FP as sorcerers.
@@Mister_Eiffel exactly, plus given the zero poise environment it could throw off people in PVP
@@zenkichihitoyoshi9513 It was already really good in pvp. That would have been OP.
@@greasygranpapy7529 not op just incredibly annoying
@@littleshrimping6872 Man I got 3 replies from you across multiple videos. Lol. It was clearly a solid spell, so buffing it as much as they said would have easily made it OP. Why do you want this spell to be bad? Lol
0:31 "This spell is based"
Best spell 10/10
I had no idea their engine was so limited when it came to spawning npcs. That's really interesting to know.
It just needed faster cast time, 5 bullets and more damage, anyone remember Blinding Bolt in DS2? Thing was op for a while
Blinding Bolt is a good way to get killed in a fight club too lol
Imagine playing DS2
@@goldenhydreigon4727 imagine still riding the ds2 hate train
@@goldenhydreigon4727 "ds2 bad now laugh 😂😂😂😂"
Blinding bolt was really good especially before they nerfed it, you could actually aim the cast higher or lower if you weren't locked on.
Amazing how recognizable some soundfonts are. I don't even need to check the description to know what game this is from lol
Banjo has always been a very distinct series to the ear.
0:50
Carthus Sandworm just chillin'
I think From actually solved this issue with orbit pods in the armored core games. They are set to lock on to closet target and shoot. Leaving the player to do whatever, even hide behind structures.
Even Ratchet and Clank 2 on the PS2 had miniturrets that would lock onto and fire upon the closes enemy. It doesn't sound like it would be hard to code....
God i miss gen 3 armored core
It was probably due to time limitations - it's kind of amazing this spell isn't cut content considering what WAS cut. Might have been a temporary placeholder until they could integrate more complex systems but they ran out of time.
Ah yes, the days when Fromsoftware made games other than just Soulslike games.
Exactly. The Exceed Orbit cores in particular quite literally had a rudimentary lock-on system in place that, while it couldn't lead targets, could still aim without the player's input beyond activating the EO. Like another answer said, it might just be due to time constraints that the spell doesn't just lock on of its own accord.
That makes me wonder, though... was the Exceed Orbit pod we launch from our cores just an NPC attached to the AC itself? In light of this video, they might have very well been a separate entity rather than a mere weapon.
I am impressed by the secret technique of screaming "WAAAaaaaaaZaugggh!" To summon a fireball.
Pyromancyes in the souls series are my favourite because of the speed and damage but there are also very less variety of pyromancyes which just makes me sad!
@David Assébof dS 2 bAd. Tbh honest, its not the best, but its still really good, probably tge worst from title, but it still has its apeal, like the creative weapons and very good dlc.
@@bidoof5922 "DS 2"
"Good dlc"
Lmao
@@weaponizedautism3269 wdym? It has creative map design with mostly good bosses and nice weapons. It was pretty fun and challenging
This series used to be so mysterious to me, your channel is like watching "How it's made." I can't unsee these things and I'm okay with that.
Man I never knew these games were actually this interesting technically. Like I would have never guessed that the spell was just a fireball NPC
Makes sense since you can kill it
You can see it's healthbar in game.
You should watch Zulies killing unkillable npcs you'd be surprised
The really interesting thing is how all games are kinda like this without us realizing it, tools and items stretched well beyond their intended limits and held together with duct tape. What separates the really good games is that they do a better job hiding it
I wish the floating chaos was like the sorceress Hydra spell from Diablo II&III so it was automatic firing and targeting
The hydra spell in diablo its a kind of summon, not a specific magic elemental. Summons are they your will and of course its attack the enemies in your sight. Its diferent than a simple floating fireball shooting only 3 fires and desapears
imagine a pyromancy where you touch someone and you can make them explode at any time by just moving your thumb
It's almost as if they're biting the dust.
*Oh*
What a beautiful Duwang!
@@thePontiffsSnickerdoodles what a novel idea! By the way, what's that in your eye?
@@ViperJoe *chew*
@Kosaku Kawajiri Ah what a creative gentleman, I bet he doesn't have a hand fetish
I loved the incidental musics queues when casting the row of fireballs.
I rarely correct someones grammar, but you made a very interesting and probably unusual mistake. You should write "cue" instead of "queue" in this scenario. (Now I will leave and not bother you again.)
After just watching Ray's vid on the boss secrets, it got me thinking. Is there a full skeleton underneath the Executioners chariot's horse or just the parts we can see? Also, are there any cool details on the chariot rider himself, since we can't really get a good look at him in particular?
Man, Hailfire Peaks is such a good song.
Wish it was more like Soul Shower in Dark Souls 2. Such a great spell, was such a nice setup/rope a dope. Fire off a few showers, they think they can tank the chip damage, bust out homing soul arrow followed by crystal soul spear. So much fun. Casting overall felt smoother in ds2
The only issue DS2 had with it's magic was the limited uses you had between resting at a bonfire, granted DS had this issue as well. I always preferred the FP system in DS3 when it came to using magic, as you didn't need to worry about a limited number of uses, as there was multiple ways to recover FP.
@@crystalgoddess4085 Given that spell usages are insanely limited by FP...Your objectively wrong in every possible way.
For example without consumables:
Without using any consumables a DS2 character can use soul arrow 60 times at 13 attument.
Meanwhile in DS3 there is literally no attainment possible to achieve this as the FP is limited to 450 at 99 attument and to cast 60 soul arrows costs 480 fp.
Also using soul arrows in DS2 doesn't effect how many other spells you have can be cast unlike in DS3.
Spell recovery consumables which the most easily grinded spell recovery one is the wilted twilight herb:
Wilted Twilight herbs which is dropped by desert sorceresses recovers 70% of ALL spell usages and can be carried in a greater quantity then the ashen estus flask can ever reach without a downside.
TLDR: The FP system is objectively worse then DS2 spell systems in every conceivable way.
It's meant to pressure opponents in PvP. I've found many uses for it & have worked it into a psuedo-combo with other pyromancies. It's good at forcing a few rolls & good at punishing over-aggressive opponents. Also, I'm not so sure about needing to be locked on when it comes to player-controlled targets
i once kept meeting one guy in duel arena who just spammed this and used op weapons it was cancer to play against him
You're totally right! My favorite pvp build on ds3 used this spell.
ua-cam.com/video/iWoDMg6Mc04/v-deo.html
I'm feeling nostalgic now.
There's something interesting to think about.
DkS2 has a very similar spell, Recollection, that basically does the same thing but as a dark damage hex...but actually seems to work fairly decently.
In the Eleum Loyce DLC there's a npc invader named Hexer Nicholai who uses that spell iirc. I might be wrong though. His other hexes can do a ton of damage if they hit you properly. Stunlocking him is a wise a choice otherwise he might blast the crap out of you with dark magic and miracles.
Why can’t all youtubers be like you?
Concise, clean and straight to the point=perfection
Funny that this problem is basically fixed in Elden Ring due to spirit summons
there's so many forgettable spells in ds3 that are utter dogshit lmaooo
Most of them really
Gotta have like 20 different versions of soul arrow
so how do you think FROM would implement steed and spirit companion in Elden ring?
It's slow and does weak damage. But it does stagger pretty good.
This video has hereby convinced me of one very important thing
*That I'd love to mod the game to have fitting Banjo Kazooie/Tooie tracks for all the regions.*
honestly, give it more tracking, damage and duration and you're fine.
it has no tracking. thats the point of the video
It would have been too good in pvp like that.
@@greasygranpapy7529 there's always a middle ground. Buff it enough to where it becomes good but not broken. We're not talking about something that sticks around for 60 seconds, fires projectiles every second, and those projectiles having afffinity tracking and xbow bolt bullet speed.
@@JZer0 That would be interesting, but in my opinion, the spell was already very good and useful in pvp. Here's an old video of me using it very effectively: ua-cam.com/video/iWoDMg6Mc04/v-deo.html
This may have been stated already, but this is supposed to be a PvP spell. It forces your opponent to either take damage or roll, and most people will roll, which sets up other moves, like roll catching. It also gives casters an opening for other casts.
It’s too slow to work for pvp and by the time you run to your opponent the spell is already over
Hopefully Elden Ring will have cooler spells and not worry so much about PvP balance, because I feel the flashiness and excitement of magic in the Souls series has generally been quite low.
Seriously, one session of Convergence makes me scream for more base game magic. I mean all forms of magic is just x spell with 5 upgrades.
We really should get more spells based on what enemies do. Bosses for example should always cough up a spell.
So many missed opportunities for spells based on boss attacks in DS3 alone.
Oh yeah definitely, I want a Midir laser!
My question is why not make it like Homing Soul Mass / Crystal Soul Mass but the projectiles fire one by one over a set period of time instead of all at once like HSM/CSM does? When we compare what we got to what even basic enemies use it feels lack luster like we got a flicked boogie when they could have brought back something from one of the previous games instead.
The only use I had for this spell was in the arena as a celebration after a match where I would cast it while aiming the camera up, and then use the parting flame's weapon art to look as if the I was doing a tribal prayer.
Godspeed to whomever I fought with.
As a game dev, not being able to instanciante NPC's on the go is a major problem when you try to make your game big. They'll have to make this a thing for elden ring.
Edit : of course they'll do it I'm dumb, they already confirmed summonable helpers
I love these insights into the design and implementation of mechanics! These are some of your best vids.
i actually quite like that spell- in pvp. its one of those spells like homing soulmass that, because you can line up your attacks with it, can be quite effective in landing a hit on another player
The fact that so many placeholders for spells are just... you know...
3 inches below the ground.
Ngl i won enough pvp using this pyromancy and throwing myself on the opponent in Leroy jerkins style
All they had to do was to make homing soul masses firey
(change the design/ animation to what we got)
and maybe put in a script that it can only fire one fireball at once.
I'm sure they thought of that, but still!
It's pretty good in PVP though. Combine it with Black Serpent to get them to roll in, and slice them up with Demon Scar's WA.
Even better, use black flame and then 2 R1s from a dark claymore, goodbye health bar
A really easy fix for this spell would have been to make the it shoot fireballs outward in a semi-circular pattern. You start up the spell, it floats upwards, then fires 3-9 fireballs in random directions around its spawn point, sort of like crystal soulmass. Make each fireball get progressively weaker, helping incorporate the actual lore of the chaos flame. You could even go a step further, and instead of getting lingering chaos (another sort of bad spell) from the demon prince you could get an improved version called greater floating chaos, which would shoot fire orbs, although instead of 3-9 you could lower it to 1-3.
That was a solid intro. Not only are your fun facts getting better, so's your editing!
Yet another interesting video on something I completely overlooked while playing through these games myself...multiple times.
Big thanks for all the hard work!
This video is a year old but I'm curious what they did to enable spontaneously spawning ai in Elden ring with the spirit ashes summons. What did they do differently.
basically because it is using assets that are already loaded by using enemies as summons. (i'm paraphrasing - there's a video breaking it down by Zullie, I think)
A better answer in between would simply to be to have the Orb "Lock" onto a player and stagger 3 projectiles that head to where that player is, so that it be an effective tool for forcing an opponent to close or create distance, or move to a less favorable area. It doesn't have to be strong, but it does need to have some sort of use.
The simpler answer comes from Miyazaki himself.
"LMAO GET FUCKED CASTERS, USE A STR OR DEX BUILD."
Imagine the technical nightmare of getting the fireball NPC attacks to sync-up online.
Really love the sound editing on this video. The music changing between locales is a great touch.
Used this spell in PvP with the fire surge, actually makes it really good because if they roll away from the surge this one catches them so you can hit them
I used it in pvp too, and it was always successful.
ua-cam.com/video/iWoDMg6Mc04/v-deo.html
its okay though because the convergence makes it extremely good
What annoys me is that FROM already has the existing framework for these kinds of spells. DS2 had a bunch of ball casts that hit in a bunch of different directions but they just weren't implemented in DS3. Talk about bordering on negligence regarding sorcery.
For me, it doesn't come out as bad.. I think that improving it will make it possibly OP especially when combined with other spells.. I remember first time ever solo win against Nameless King, I relied solely on this spell on his 2nd phase since I spent all my Estus on the first phase. (I was that bad before) I kept the distance where he'd just walk towards you and I'll just walk away a little.. I didn't think I'd win, but I did.
It's a bit of a shame how quite a few spells seem to feel useless in the base game, and even DLCs (Way of White Corona comes to mind), at least not with very specific set ups. This one in particular feels like it could benefit from a much quicker cast time and at least a longer duration than just a few measly moments.
I suppose From either didn't have time to set up the script for a more intricate lock-on system for Floating Chaos due to time constraints, or they didn't want a spell that a player could just leave behind and have it annihilate enemies for them (Yes, I know poison exists, but most poison-based weaponry requires the player to get close to apply it properly, while a long-lasting Floating Chaos could just bap incoming enemies while the player hid behind a structure). Or something like that.
This is the fate many software developers face. You put on so many systems tied to each other that you can't risk coding custom behavior without it being unstable so you limit yourself with the systems you have built similar to how a modder is limited to what modding tools provide (unless they extend it like SKSE which also doesn't have infinite coverage). In this case they can't make a spell with its own mind without making it an NPC which would sound hilarious to junior developers since it's their own code.
Yet none of that explains why it's inherently BAD in regards to minuscule damage, no ability to re-target, target by itself, and wait until a target is visible to attack, and the fact that it does only 3 shots when, clearly, it's a sentry spell. F███ kind of sentry has only 3 bullets?
what? no, this spell is absolutely disgusting when does gank city
Literally just spam it and makes your opponent mental breakdown
Works 200% better if you have a teammate spam it with you
That spell is bad because it only hits 3 times, deals very little damage and has long cast time. It could be good in 1 vs 1 if it could hit 5-6 times. Or if it could float for 30-40 sec and only hit when a target is locked.
Zullie I've gotta ask. Where does the Gwendolyn part of aldrich end and where does the aldrich begin? I can't ever wrap my head around how aldrich is actually supposed to look like
From can’t program reasonable game systems to save their lives. This is such a stupidly trivial thing to be able to do: spawn a new “NPC” whenever you want to eliminate all this mess.
I know this spell is considered bad, and I don't disagree with that opinion, but I still use it on my whip character for zoning and setting up roll-catches.
I wonder how difficult it would be to instead script the spell to attack the nearest living enemy to the player. I would say the spell itself but if the spell isn't an npc that would probably be more difficult and maybe not as useful.
This is interesting to think about now that we have summons in Elden Ring. Are they coded to be separate NPCs as well ?
Real-time NPC spawning seems an absurd thing not to support in this day and age on a technical level
Git gud, From
Now I want a little fireball NPC companion! Like Calcifer from Howls Moving Castle.
Now if it shot like 3 or 5 fireballs all at once in a shotgun pattern, it could be pretty scary. Especially if it shot 3 volleys.
Why didn't you create the same NPC like 7 times in all maps, huh Fromsoft?! Smh.
i don't think this spell is that bad, if not for the horrendous duration mixed with high cast time this could be a very good passive way to deal damage.
I mean. I feel it should do more damage or be cheaper, and it'd be lame but 'okay'. It just doesn't have a niche.
Hmm strange I use this spell all the time. It's helps alot in pvp and pve especially for getting them stun locked. Works great against Gael!
They could have just, you know, improved the scripting of the spell.
I mean, they could've at least make it slightly homing so you can't straight up strafe walk it
Controversial opinion: if something you need to implement sucks without lots of effort, try not implementing it.
Day 41 of simping for Zullie
Unfortunately I hate all spells in this game, in ds2 everyone can be useful, even the worst
I dont even play soul games (i mean i play nioh but ik that doesnt count as a souls game) i just subbed bc of the dedication to the lore and the fact and all that
Fun and informative Zullie, particularly the winter cut with the reveal about why the player doesn't get fire baby NPC's was good, it's nice to see some old Rare music for a change and was well cut.
Zullie, you have a good taste in music!