Not necessarily. I said it in another video but if Jeff was the sole source of the dev problems in OW then those problems would had been fixed after he left, which isn't what happened. The PvE got scrapped entirely, instead of hiring and making a separate dev team for PvE events a lot of people were laid off, the game genuinely feels significantly greedier and full of live service degeneracy. Jeff's biggest problem was that he was an old fashioned dev with big ideas and poor execution.
Jeff was one of the reasons that the dev team wasn’t expanded in the first place(we know from this book) , which lead to OW2 PVE failing, getting scrapped, and more people getting laid after that. He’s not the sole cause by any means, but all those things you listed he was definitely a factor. You have to look at the context and what happened before.
highly doubt he was the sole reason but i feel its undeniable he was a huge reason. Its why after he left things didn't get better there were still big issues like kotic, plus it's not as if kaplan left it in a good state from what i can gather there was a massive spread of things that needed to be done, with a small team given the tasks, and a lot of promises that couldn't be kept to the community
Jeff leaving wouldn't have solved all of the problems he caused immediately. Jeff made a bunch of big promises and then left and the new team that tried their best to fulfill his vision before recently deciding that it's just not working, which is why we're starting to go back to 6v6. As far as microtransactions are concerned, I don't think Jeff or the current OverWatch team has very much say over any of that and even if they did, I don't blame them for going this route because the OverWatch 1 model wasn't making them enough money to sustain development.
If you think the entire company can just simply 180 after firing one person then you have a fundamental lack of understanding and real world experience as to how big business actually runs. It's like thinking an Aircraft carrier can just U turn immediately and easily.
@@joshuacollins9316I think that's the problem with events like these, people want to blame a single person for what happened, but sometimes that just isn't possible. Was Jeff the sole contributor to Overwatch's failings? No. Was he part of the problem? Absolutely. Too many cooks spoil the pot, and games development is like a commercial kitchen, whole lot of cooks. You know things are getting bad when people are begging for lootboxes to come back.
I get that Kaplan was at fault for some, and Kottick was right to want to hire more. But have you considered this? Yes Jeff shoulda hired more. But Kottick was already having Activision take over ENTIRE DEPARTMENTS of Blizzard by hiring loyalists to Kottick. Bobbys strategy wasnt for helpin OW. It was trying to steal OW. The rest of the post talks about how Kottick did exactly this and even stole Blizzard from the former president Mike Morhaime. This is corporate take over strategy. Kottick was never Jeffs ally If you were Jeff, and you saw Kottick do the same hired loyalists to push out Morhaime, why would you ever trust Kottick to hire more on the OW team? Can you even imagine how OW would look like today if Kotick had FULL control of OW? Even if it wasnt a perfect plan, Kaplan did the correct action by shutting out Kotticks strat. If Kaplan didnt do this, the game would most likely be even more aggressive in its in game store than it is today
Here's the thing about the whole Jeff Kaplan, Bobby Kotick and the hiring of more people debacle. Yes, they clearly needed more people to handle OW1 while they were focusing on OW2, no doubt... but there's 3 key facts about what Kotick was suggesting that a lot of people miss. 1. Team 4 was around like 100-150 people around the launch of OW1. 2. Kotick was suggesting "HUNDREDS MORE" people be brought on to make OW2 (doubling, tripling, maybe even quadrupling the team size, and the suggestion was the new people would make OW2) 3. Kotick wanted to milk OW like CoD... which means Kaplan and others were worried about Kotick turning Overwatch into Call of Duty, where there were like 5 different developer studios working on Call of Duty at any given time. Yes, they definitely needed more people to handle active development of OW2, maintenance of OW1, and oversight of OWL all at once... but what Kotick was suggesting was a complete upheaval of Team 4 and with his direct influence in it. I don't blame Jeff for being protective, even if he was too overprotective in the end. I also feel like Jeff never intended to actually continue supporting OW1 as a live service game, it seems like the idea was release it, support it for a couple years, release a new game that is focused on PVE and then bring an updated version of PVP back with more active support.
cod has 4 studios, 3 develop a cod game over 3 years with the 4th dev studio helping the other 3 maintaining the current years game. I think there's a huge misconception about how cods were made (were because the recent ones really fucked up the cycle coldwar-mw3/bo6) a lot of people think that they're shat out in a year with a bunch of teams fumbling over them, which is the case now unfortunately, but from 2012-2020 each studio got plenty of time, and help if needed from the 4th studio, to refine and polish their game. It worked and it worked really well with a few exceptions (advanced warfare, IW and bo3 had a controversial campaign). I don't think kottick was trying to make an ow2,3,4,5 I think he was more suggesting have multiple teams (or studios) that are big enough to satisfy pvp, pve and a campaigns needs, so that no area of overwatch had terrible support. Considering it took 100-150 people to craft Overwatch I really dont blame kottick for wanting to hire hundreds more given kaplans very ambitious ideas for the future
@@cheesykebs708idk, it’s hard to trust Kotic in… anything. He’s kinda burned any goodwill long ago for me. These are the same suits who axed the cinematic team because they saw no value in it… if you give them a inch, he’ll take a mile. Maybe I’m jaded, but personally, the man genuinely is a snake and you shouldn’t trust shit that comes out of his mouth. He would deadass make you pay to reload if he fucking could.
i never understood the glazing of kaplan in this community when talking about the status of the game while shitting on keller. it's kind of vindicating to have some confirmation that he fumbled because of wanting to do too much and not listening to what the players wanted/needed at the moment. not saying the team 4 rn is perfect but holy shit thinking about the dev team in the ow1 drought brings back nightmares.
It’s because he comes from the OG days of blizzard. Like the good days of WoW blizzard. He was very pro player, for all his faults. You can complain if you want, at the end of the day he objectively failed on OW2, but personally I think the Kotic types would’ve made it far worse if it fell apart even earlier, or if Jeff wasn’t in control. Look at every other blizzard project… OGs get pushed out and the new hires push heavy into monetisation. The shop could be MUCH worse lol. The Mfs wanted you to buy individual heroes haha.
@@garymcjerry Im not saying he's the only one to blame or that things couldn't be much, much worse. but he's somehow escaped responsability for much of the player base, which i can understand for a couple of years after him leaving because he's a very big part of why overwatch was born in the first place. but excusing him of question when talking about the downfall, the drought, the lack of communication... in the eyes of a lot of the community kaplan "can do/didn't do no wrong". and i think you're giving kaplan a lot of merit for decisions made when he was no longer on the team; in fact a lot of his team are actually saying that the status of overwatch 2 at the release was because they spent 5 years working on pve and 1 year on the actual pvp. wonder what happened 1 year before overwatch 2 release.
@@MadcerOW some people definitely take it too far, obviously this was, undeniably a fuck up. But it’s one of those “sure, in hindsight” sorts of things. Idk, it’s weird. People go too hard on either side. Personally I think it’s just too easy of a scapegoat, as if OW2 since jeff left has been better handled. It’s clearly a issue beyond just any one person like you said. And, personally, of course they were mainly working on PvE. That’s was the entire point. That’s the “2” in “Overwatch 2” lol. If you want to argue they never should’ve made a Overwatch 2, that’s fair, but that’s also not Jeff’s decision. Feel like just a lotta hindsight 20/20 imo.
No matter what we can all agree that pivoting from the success of the original game directly into a pve expansion was a colossal mistake that seriously damaged the game in the long run. Overwatch could've been so much more with just better leadership all around
It's only a colossal mistake because they failed to make it work. It's an amazing idea and overwatch is literally one of the most hated franchises of all time, the only reason many people gave this franchise a second chance is because of that vision for ow2. They had 4-6 years and produced the worst most useless pve of all time, that is not Jeff's fault, and that doesn't make it a bad idea. The execution was the mistake not the idea, atleast he had the dignity to leave instead of stick around peddling lies and blizzard corpa propaganda to the community for years like the rest of the team. Without that vision there is no ow2 because we all know its basically the exact same game anyway, and the rebrand is the only reason that people gave the franchise a second chance. I don't understand how that's a colossal mistake his vision literally saved the game by getting people to try/talk about ow2 even though the team failed to deliver on its promises. Without that vision the game would literally still be in the same state it was in the last years of ow1 with everyone moved on to other games
@@ironman1458horrible execution means it literally is Jeff's fault since he was the head of the team. It was developers like him who said that they could make borderlands style ability trees for each of the 40 plus heroes and a replayable PVE that goes on to be updated regularly along with the base game all without having a devoted team to the PVE that doomed it to fail in the first place. You have to remember that the promises they made would be hard to fulfill even if their entire vision was just PVE but they also wanted to try and make a PVP game at the same time using the same team and then acted shocked when it didn't work.
@huntish3760 , imagine you execute everything with flying colors and some executives from the investors board tell you to scrap it and make it again but with more monetizing. Yeah definitely not the upper corporate greed that ruins games.... yup definitely not.
I think we also need to consider the responsibility of the player base. If we as a community ran a boycott on skins early on in OW2 then they might have listened. Now we’re too far gone for a boycott of skins because there’s so many casual players now that will buy skins. The game died when they stopped trying to balance and update it as an e-sport.
something simple to see if something influenced the result of the game is just look at the state of the game. kaplan was in, game was good with some down dips before climbing back up kaplan left, the game slowly went worse and worse. kotik left, the game slowly improved day by day. kotik would've likely done this to cut the dev team in half, making the other half his greedy cohorts and wouldve likely completely cut any development on ow1, and slowly cut them out of the company. if you really think someone as greedy as kotik seriously planned to have two teams work on a single game, your crazy. and since we don't know exactly who wanted the sequel and who wanted the "update" think about it, it makes sense who wanted what... kaplan, a gamer, wanted a PVE experience. yknow, that makes sense for a sequel game. kotik, a greedy person, wanted a live service game. something the base game could've adapted to. kotik likely didn't want a sequel since yknow, greed, making his option to hire more people even MORE fishy.
kaplan left in april 2021. the game was garbage from many years way before he left lol there was a whole year between his leaving and the release of the last ow1 hero. stop excusing the man, he fumbled this the same way the rest of the dev team did. also kotik wouldn't had cut the dev team in half, he wanted to do the same shit he did with COD- not saying it's a good thing, but there's precedent of him investing in a way bigger team when something brings in the money. it was kaplan which didn't want the PVE- and the players at the time didn't want it either, we wanted updates to the live service game, not abandonment like kaplan wanted as bogur says. did you watch the video at all? lol
Before I even watch I’m gonna say “probably not, his actions may have led to some unfortunate realities for the game but he likely wasn’t the reason everything went to shit”
OW PVE could have been a completely separate game and it would have been a better option. Trying to force both PVP and PVE into the same game is always difficult from a balance perspective.
It's literally not. If they released the pve assets to the community we'd have a better pve mode by the end of the year. Let's just call it like it is, this is one of the most inept teams of all time from the devs to the upper management.
That wouldn't have been a problem, they've already had seperate balance for missions. The real problem was trying to do all this where it plays like overwatch, keeping it to a few heroes and just using the overwatch IP in a God of War style would have been way better. Killing bots with genji is never going to be that fun, genji in a 3rd person doing move combos on a boss would be great.
Back in 2016 devs probably had enough money to pay their bills and keep on developing pve content. The Activision execs wanted to grind Ow for even more money, so they pressured Team4 forcing it into a live service game. In order to keep the team functional and to satisfy the greedy CEO, they had to split their team to work on 3 different contents. If i was in Jeff’s shoe, i would never hire hundreds more of people to help on the unnecessary tasks, which mostly just to make a CoD-like Overwatch game. CoD releases new version of themselves every 2 years with the same game, selling a bunch of base copies then proceed to milk customers with DLCs and collabs, which was never the problem with Ow1 (lootboxes, events, retribution archieves…) you get pretty much everything you can have for $40 over 6 years. Cosmetics are not even that important in this game. The vfx and remodels may cause confusion in pvp hence players are required to use basic skins and team-color skins. So many things i could say in order to clear out the hate on Jeff but, you would farm the content out of these so.. gladly you’re still making profits on this company. But honestly, L take on the clickbaits.
Been saying this for nearly a year now, I knew that PoS just abandoned the game and left Aaron to take the fall and all the backlash from Jeffs failures. You see it all the time in businesses, iirc there's a name for it when a business sets up a fall guy but I can't remember what it is.
Jeff isn’t a piece of shit get a grip. He left 3 years ago, in 2021. So in the 2 years post overwatch 2 he’s had no impact. All the stinky balancing choices, the annihilation of the in house cinematic team and the money grab collabs, that wasn’t his decision. Also PvE was finally announced to be dead in 2023. Jeff was out of the picture for 2 whole years before it was announced. If Jeff was the only problem, then the should have had 18 months of Dev time to turn it around before realising they will need to throw in the towel and make an announcement/plan the invasion event. So quickly people forget that Bobby was a massive problem.
@@TheLawOverwatch Nobody said Bobby wasn't a huge contributing factor as well, but Jeff was second in command. Keller has done an amazing job handling things these past couple years considering he's had to pick up the trash of 6 YEARS of fuck ups and failures from Jeff and ActiBliz' corporate overlords. Not to mention he's had to train new devs over and over again due to huge layoffs several times over the years. He's working with what he's got and if it was in anyone else's hand or even Jeff's still this game would be 100x worse.
I wish everyone else would acknowledge how the game is like Bogur and Spilo. I get that the others want to try and not be "dooming" or "hating" on the game, but this is what it is. They dont gotta talk about it all the time but it just sounds like toxic positivity when all they say is "this patch did it!" Then a week or 2 later theyre saying the devs gotta turn it all around. The way that plays out feels worse to me. Ps. Horizon over time was ok for me, but f Paris.
feel like the exact same thing could be said about the doomers too, for as much as theres toxic positivity, there are just as much people that live to bitch and moan about ow2 and won't stop no matter how many positive changes are made
What are you even talking about, every week there is a youtube video of people saying that OW2 is dying or that Marvel Rivals will kill it 😂. There definitely isn't toxic positivity when it comes to OW2,and quite frankly, it might actually be the opposite. That being said,I do like Spilo's take on the game,he is quite balanced about his criticism,yet he is also very understanding on why the devs do and don't do certain things.
Never has Spilo or Bogur said "this patch did it". They generally mention "x" things went correctly but "y" things are an issue. I don't think you pay proper attention to details if you think they say everything is fine and then say devs gotta turn it all around.
@@rachetmarvel931 hmm, what I'm trying to say is, for a long time some of the other streamers try to look at the brightside of patches and skin collabs, and not talk about things that are issues in the game cause they don't want to sound doomer anymore, and for me it's gotten to the point that them looking at the bright side when it's not is leaning more towards the toxic positivity spectrum. Basically saying "it'll be alright" when it's really not. Cause why do we get all these "this patch is the one" update vids, immediately followed by "I didn't want to say it but those changes weren't good" follow up videos.
@@srikrishnabhat6793 I'm glad they don't say everything is fine like other streamers and content creators. That's what I meant. They still acknowledge the issues and not only the positive changes. Other content creators have stopped doing that because they were getting called doomers, so now they don't point out bad changes until everyone sees the results, when they clearly see how it's going to effect the game. But they're tired of getting called that for pointing out obvious bad things. Makes sense to me, but that's just me I guess.
I'd say it was about %25 his fault. The other %75 is executive and corporate managements greed. The need to keep making profits for investors. Devs make creative choices sure, but they still have to follow the money's orders.
Bobby was mess yes, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. They should have brought on tons of more people, and Jeff’s ego couldn’t allow it. So yes I blame Jeff from the fall of OW not Bobby who wanted to give us a a OW factory
The issue is imo, that’s what Bobby did to all the other projects, and look how they turned out… Sure, OW needed more people, but they did *not* need more people hired by Kotic or with his mindset. Unless, idk, maybe “Overwatch; immortal” would be a banger, who fucking knows… don’t you guys have phones?
Bogor is completely correct on this one, Jeff could have have both thing going and instead wanted to continue to push his vision even though the game clearly had evolved beyond it. Blizzard can still bonce back even after all the shit that happen because people in reality don't care, as long as the get what they want, if you don't believe me just look at EA and Riot history. If they keep making their games better and give their fan base what they want ( right now it seems to be TV shows/ anime) Blizz will be good again.
jeff sin was caring too much for overwatch, he wanted his baby to be a great thing, but thats not realistic with scumbag blizzard, he wanted to do something witch overwatch compared to aaron keller who is an useless and worthelss game director and did nothing
Been saying what Bogur's saying about pvp vs pve for years. Ow1 blew up while it was a pvp experience not as a pve one. If they would have treated it as fps league, it'd be iconic instead of a meme even if it's still a pretty good game.
A broken clock is right twice a day, Bobby was a profit seeking business man and with more developers they'd in theory be able to put out more content thus gain more money
This is why I keep telling y'all to quit glazing Kaplan so much as if he was oh so faultless in this game's fall from grace. His vision for PVE was stupid, and over promising so much before they had something truly ready to launch was even stupider. You don't make an announcement like that at BlizzCon 2019 unless you have something RIGHT around the corner, otherwise you get what we got, reputation wrecking disappointment wnen you under deliver. Overwatch's main appeal is a PVP game, that was never going to change, so at *best* it would've been cool to just have a collection of story Archives/Missions to play through every few seasons as a *bonus* on top of the main game, but Jeff wanted to practically make an entirely new game...and WITHOUT even expanding the team to do it 🥴🥴🥴🥴 There's no way in hell y'all would let Aaron off the hook if he did some dumbass shit like that, so you better be holding "Uncle Jeff's" feet to the fire too; little wonder why the team felt so burnt out after a phenomenally stupid decision like that.
one patch to make most people happy, they either kill of dva or she get nuked with massive nerfs. i just hate the character in general, either on my team or the enemies.
You have to be getting paid to spin this or you just click baiting. Jeff was all the devs had fighting for them and their families. Better hour, better pay, trying to keep them safe from sexual assault. This is a disgusting attack on someone who only did good for the game and his employees. Also he wanted more time for the new additions to the game but was forced to announce early by share holders. Making sure to never come back to this channel
Did you even read what the answer was? Fighting for your devs is very good and nice. But holding back the game by the same time is simple not good for the game.
Not necessarily. I said it in another video but if Jeff was the sole source of the dev problems in OW then those problems would had been fixed after he left, which isn't what happened. The PvE got scrapped entirely, instead of hiring and making a separate dev team for PvE events a lot of people were laid off, the game genuinely feels significantly greedier and full of live service degeneracy. Jeff's biggest problem was that he was an old fashioned dev with big ideas and poor execution.
Jeff was one of the reasons that the dev team wasn’t expanded in the first place(we know from this book) , which lead to OW2 PVE failing, getting scrapped, and more people getting laid after that.
He’s not the sole cause by any means, but all those things you listed he was definitely a factor. You have to look at the context and what happened before.
highly doubt he was the sole reason but i feel its undeniable he was a huge reason. Its why after he left things didn't get better there were still big issues like kotic, plus it's not as if kaplan left it in a good state from what i can gather there was a massive spread of things that needed to be done, with a small team given the tasks, and a lot of promises that couldn't be kept to the community
Jeff leaving wouldn't have solved all of the problems he caused immediately. Jeff made a bunch of big promises and then left and the new team that tried their best to fulfill his vision before recently deciding that it's just not working, which is why we're starting to go back to 6v6. As far as microtransactions are concerned, I don't think Jeff or the current OverWatch team has very much say over any of that and even if they did, I don't blame them for going this route because the OverWatch 1 model wasn't making them enough money to sustain development.
If you think the entire company can just simply 180 after firing one person then you have a fundamental lack of understanding and real world experience as to how big business actually runs. It's like thinking an Aircraft carrier can just U turn immediately and easily.
@@joshuacollins9316I think that's the problem with events like these, people want to blame a single person for what happened, but sometimes that just isn't possible. Was Jeff the sole contributor to Overwatch's failings? No. Was he part of the problem? Absolutely. Too many cooks spoil the pot, and games development is like a commercial kitchen, whole lot of cooks. You know things are getting bad when people are begging for lootboxes to come back.
I get that Kaplan was at fault for some, and Kottick was right to want to hire more. But have you considered this?
Yes Jeff shoulda hired more. But Kottick was already having Activision take over ENTIRE DEPARTMENTS of Blizzard by hiring loyalists to Kottick.
Bobbys strategy wasnt for helpin OW. It was trying to steal OW. The rest of the post talks about how Kottick did exactly this and even stole Blizzard from the former president Mike Morhaime. This is corporate take over strategy. Kottick was never Jeffs ally
If you were Jeff, and you saw Kottick do the same hired loyalists to push out Morhaime, why would you ever trust Kottick to hire more on the OW team? Can you even imagine how OW would look like today if Kotick had FULL control of OW? Even if it wasnt a perfect plan, Kaplan did the correct action by shutting out Kotticks strat. If Kaplan didnt do this, the game would most likely be even more aggressive in its in game store than it is today
Here's the thing about the whole Jeff Kaplan, Bobby Kotick and the hiring of more people debacle.
Yes, they clearly needed more people to handle OW1 while they were focusing on OW2, no doubt... but there's 3 key facts about what Kotick was suggesting that a lot of people miss.
1. Team 4 was around like 100-150 people around the launch of OW1.
2. Kotick was suggesting "HUNDREDS MORE" people be brought on to make OW2 (doubling, tripling, maybe even quadrupling the team size, and the suggestion was the new people would make OW2)
3. Kotick wanted to milk OW like CoD... which means Kaplan and others were worried about Kotick turning Overwatch into Call of Duty, where there were like 5 different developer studios working on Call of Duty at any given time.
Yes, they definitely needed more people to handle active development of OW2, maintenance of OW1, and oversight of OWL all at once... but what Kotick was suggesting was a complete upheaval of Team 4 and with his direct influence in it. I don't blame Jeff for being protective, even if he was too overprotective in the end.
I also feel like Jeff never intended to actually continue supporting OW1 as a live service game, it seems like the idea was release it, support it for a couple years, release a new game that is focused on PVE and then bring an updated version of PVP back with more active support.
cod has 4 studios, 3 develop a cod game over 3 years with the 4th dev studio helping the other 3 maintaining the current years game. I think there's a huge misconception about how cods were made (were because the recent ones really fucked up the cycle coldwar-mw3/bo6) a lot of people think that they're shat out in a year with a bunch of teams fumbling over them, which is the case now unfortunately, but from 2012-2020 each studio got plenty of time, and help if needed from the 4th studio, to refine and polish their game. It worked and it worked really well with a few exceptions (advanced warfare, IW and bo3 had a controversial campaign).
I don't think kottick was trying to make an ow2,3,4,5 I think he was more suggesting have multiple teams (or studios) that are big enough to satisfy pvp, pve and a campaigns needs, so that no area of overwatch had terrible support. Considering it took 100-150 people to craft Overwatch I really dont blame kottick for wanting to hire hundreds more given kaplans very ambitious ideas for the future
@@cheesykebs708idk, it’s hard to trust Kotic in… anything. He’s kinda burned any goodwill long ago for me.
These are the same suits who axed the cinematic team because they saw no value in it… if you give them a inch, he’ll take a mile.
Maybe I’m jaded, but personally, the man genuinely is a snake and you shouldn’t trust shit that comes out of his mouth. He would deadass make you pay to reload if he fucking could.
i never understood the glazing of kaplan in this community when talking about the status of the game while shitting on keller. it's kind of vindicating to have some confirmation that he fumbled because of wanting to do too much and not listening to what the players wanted/needed at the moment. not saying the team 4 rn is perfect but holy shit thinking about the dev team in the ow1 drought brings back nightmares.
It’s because he comes from the OG days of blizzard. Like the good days of WoW blizzard.
He was very pro player, for all his faults.
You can complain if you want, at the end of the day he objectively failed on OW2, but personally I think the Kotic types would’ve made it far worse if it fell apart even earlier, or if Jeff wasn’t in control. Look at every other blizzard project… OGs get pushed out and the new hires push heavy into monetisation.
The shop could be MUCH worse lol. The Mfs wanted you to buy individual heroes haha.
@@garymcjerry Im not saying he's the only one to blame or that things couldn't be much, much worse. but he's somehow escaped responsability for much of the player base, which i can understand for a couple of years after him leaving because he's a very big part of why overwatch was born in the first place. but excusing him of question when talking about the downfall, the drought, the lack of communication... in the eyes of a lot of the community kaplan "can do/didn't do no wrong".
and i think you're giving kaplan a lot of merit for decisions made when he was no longer on the team; in fact a lot of his team are actually saying that the status of overwatch 2 at the release was because they spent 5 years working on pve and 1 year on the actual pvp. wonder what happened 1 year before overwatch 2 release.
@@MadcerOW some people definitely take it too far, obviously this was, undeniably a fuck up.
But it’s one of those “sure, in hindsight” sorts of things.
Idk, it’s weird. People go too hard on either side.
Personally I think it’s just too easy of a scapegoat, as if OW2 since jeff left has been better handled. It’s clearly a issue beyond just any one person like you said.
And, personally, of course they were mainly working on PvE. That’s was the entire point. That’s the “2” in “Overwatch 2” lol.
If you want to argue they never should’ve made a Overwatch 2, that’s fair, but that’s also not Jeff’s decision.
Feel like just a lotta hindsight 20/20 imo.
if jeff is good or bad doesnt change aaron is an asshole and he has been doing nothing, jeff at least tried
@verguco6051 keep huffing the flats copium buddy
No matter what we can all agree that pivoting from the success of the original game directly into a pve expansion was a colossal mistake that seriously damaged the game in the long run. Overwatch could've been so much more with just better leadership all around
It's only a colossal mistake because they failed to make it work. It's an amazing idea and overwatch is literally one of the most hated franchises of all time, the only reason many people gave this franchise a second chance is because of that vision for ow2. They had 4-6 years and produced the worst most useless pve of all time, that is not Jeff's fault, and that doesn't make it a bad idea. The execution was the mistake not the idea, atleast he had the dignity to leave instead of stick around peddling lies and blizzard corpa propaganda to the community for years like the rest of the team. Without that vision there is no ow2 because we all know its basically the exact same game anyway, and the rebrand is the only reason that people gave the franchise a second chance. I don't understand how that's a colossal mistake his vision literally saved the game by getting people to try/talk about ow2 even though the team failed to deliver on its promises. Without that vision the game would literally still be in the same state it was in the last years of ow1 with everyone moved on to other games
@@ironman1458horrible execution means it literally is Jeff's fault since he was the head of the team. It was developers like him who said that they could make borderlands style ability trees for each of the 40 plus heroes and a replayable PVE that goes on to be updated regularly along with the base game all without having a devoted team to the PVE that doomed it to fail in the first place. You have to remember that the promises they made would be hard to fulfill even if their entire vision was just PVE but they also wanted to try and make a PVP game at the same time using the same team and then acted shocked when it didn't work.
@huntish3760 , imagine you execute everything with flying colors and some executives from the investors board tell you to scrap it and make it again but with more monetizing. Yeah definitely not the upper corporate greed that ruins games.... yup definitely not.
I think we also need to consider the responsibility of the player base. If we as a community ran a boycott on skins early on in OW2 then they might have listened.
Now we’re too far gone for a boycott of skins because there’s so many casual players now that will buy skins. The game died when they stopped trying to balance and update it as an e-sport.
something simple to see if something influenced the result of the game is just look at the state of the game.
kaplan was in, game was good with some down dips before climbing back up
kaplan left, the game slowly went worse and worse.
kotik left, the game slowly improved day by day.
kotik would've likely done this to cut the dev team in half, making the other half his greedy cohorts and wouldve likely completely cut any development on ow1, and slowly cut them out of the company.
if you really think someone as greedy as kotik seriously planned to have two teams work on a single game, your crazy. and since we don't know exactly who wanted the sequel and who wanted the "update" think about it, it makes sense who wanted what...
kaplan, a gamer, wanted a PVE experience. yknow, that makes sense for a sequel game.
kotik, a greedy person, wanted a live service game. something the base game could've adapted to. kotik likely didn't want a sequel since yknow, greed, making his option to hire more people even MORE fishy.
kaplan left in april 2021. the game was garbage from many years way before he left lol there was a whole year between his leaving and the release of the last ow1 hero. stop excusing the man, he fumbled this the same way the rest of the dev team did.
also kotik wouldn't had cut the dev team in half, he wanted to do the same shit he did with COD- not saying it's a good thing, but there's precedent of him investing in a way bigger team when something brings in the money. it was kaplan which didn't want the PVE- and the players at the time didn't want it either, we wanted updates to the live service game, not abandonment like kaplan wanted as bogur says. did you watch the video at all? lol
Before I even watch I’m gonna say “probably not, his actions may have led to some unfortunate realities for the game but he likely wasn’t the reason everything went to shit”
OW PVE could have been a completely separate game and it would have been a better option. Trying to force both PVP and PVE into the same game is always difficult from a balance perspective.
It's literally not. If they released the pve assets to the community we'd have a better pve mode by the end of the year. Let's just call it like it is, this is one of the most inept teams of all time from the devs to the upper management.
TF2 did this shit almost 10 years ago its really not that hard
That wouldn't have been a problem, they've already had seperate balance for missions.
The real problem was trying to do all this where it plays like overwatch, keeping it to a few heroes and just using the overwatch IP in a God of War style would have been way better. Killing bots with genji is never going to be that fun, genji in a 3rd person doing move combos on a boss would be great.
bingus schmungus chungus yes yes 👍
>Calls out new hero releases being bad in OW1
> *continues to excuse the worst of them*
Back in 2016 devs probably had enough money to pay their bills and keep on developing pve content. The Activision execs wanted to grind Ow for even more money, so they pressured Team4 forcing it into a live service game. In order to keep the team functional and to satisfy the greedy CEO, they had to split their team to work on 3 different contents.
If i was in Jeff’s shoe, i would never hire hundreds more of people to help on the unnecessary tasks, which mostly just to make a CoD-like Overwatch game. CoD releases new version of themselves every 2 years with the same game, selling a bunch of base copies then proceed to milk customers with DLCs and collabs, which was never the problem with Ow1 (lootboxes, events, retribution archieves…) you get pretty much everything you can have for $40 over 6 years. Cosmetics are not even that important in this game. The vfx and remodels may cause confusion in pvp hence players are required to use basic skins and team-color skins.
So many things i could say in order to clear out the hate on Jeff but, you would farm the content out of these so.. gladly you’re still making profits on this company.
But honestly, L take on the clickbaits.
Been saying this for nearly a year now, I knew that PoS just abandoned the game and left Aaron to take the fall and all the backlash from Jeffs failures. You see it all the time in businesses, iirc there's a name for it when a business sets up a fall guy but I can't remember what it is.
scapegoat?
@@hms5There it is, was on the tip of my tongue. Couldn't think straight was up half the night grinding that last drive reward
@@WindReiter10 i get that, rn i’m gonna also grind the overdrive reward, so many points away from the 1500 points that i want :(
Jeff isn’t a piece of shit get a grip. He left 3 years ago, in 2021. So in the 2 years post overwatch 2 he’s had no impact. All the stinky balancing choices, the annihilation of the in house cinematic team and the money grab collabs, that wasn’t his decision.
Also PvE was finally announced to be dead in 2023. Jeff was out of the picture for 2 whole years before it was announced. If Jeff was the only problem, then the should have had 18 months of Dev time to turn it around before realising they will need to throw in the towel and make an announcement/plan the invasion event.
So quickly people forget that Bobby was a massive problem.
@@TheLawOverwatch Nobody said Bobby wasn't a huge contributing factor as well, but Jeff was second in command. Keller has done an amazing job handling things these past couple years considering he's had to pick up the trash of 6 YEARS of fuck ups and failures from Jeff and ActiBliz' corporate overlords. Not to mention he's had to train new devs over and over again due to huge layoffs several times over the years. He's working with what he's got and if it was in anyone else's hand or even Jeff's still this game would be 100x worse.
It feels so damn sureal to hear about what ow1 was like from boger compared to flats samito and svb
bingus liked this video
Those dead updates after Echo were bad but I miss 6v6 more.
the road to hell is paved with good intentions
I wish everyone else would acknowledge how the game is like Bogur and Spilo. I get that the others want to try and not be "dooming" or "hating" on the game, but this is what it is.
They dont gotta talk about it all the time but it just sounds like toxic positivity when all they say is "this patch did it!" Then a week or 2 later theyre saying the devs gotta turn it all around. The way that plays out feels worse to me.
Ps. Horizon over time was ok for me, but f Paris.
feel like the exact same thing could be said about the doomers too, for as much as theres toxic positivity, there are just as much people that live to bitch and moan about ow2 and won't stop no matter how many positive changes are made
What are you even talking about, every week there is a youtube video of people saying that OW2 is dying or that Marvel Rivals will kill it 😂.
There definitely isn't toxic positivity when it comes to OW2,and quite frankly, it might actually be the opposite.
That being said,I do like Spilo's take on the game,he is quite balanced about his criticism,yet he is also very understanding on why the devs do and don't do certain things.
Never has Spilo or Bogur said "this patch did it". They generally mention "x" things went correctly but "y" things are an issue. I don't think you pay proper attention to details if you think they say everything is fine and then say devs gotta turn it all around.
@@rachetmarvel931 hmm, what I'm trying to say is, for a long time some of the other streamers try to look at the brightside of patches and skin collabs, and not talk about things that are issues in the game cause they don't want to sound doomer anymore, and for me it's gotten to the point that them looking at the bright side when it's not is leaning more towards the toxic positivity spectrum. Basically saying "it'll be alright" when it's really not. Cause why do we get all these "this patch is the one" update vids, immediately followed by "I didn't want to say it but those changes weren't good" follow up videos.
@@srikrishnabhat6793 I'm glad they don't say everything is fine like other streamers and content creators. That's what I meant. They still acknowledge the issues and not only the positive changes. Other content creators have stopped doing that because they were getting called doomers, so now they don't point out bad changes until everyone sees the results, when they clearly see how it's going to effect the game. But they're tired of getting called that for pointing out obvious bad things.
Makes sense to me, but that's just me I guess.
Jeff really reminds me of my former manager who I loathe
I'd say it was about %25 his fault. The other %75 is executive and corporate managements greed. The need to keep making profits for investors. Devs make creative choices sure, but they still have to follow the money's orders.
under 30 seconds gang🙏🙏🙏
isnt the video 18 minutes long?
@@MoinCoinwhat does that have to do with anything?
No; Jeff's vision is the only thing that got people to give this franchise a second chance. He's partially to blame; about as much as every other dev.
Bobby was mess yes, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. They should have brought on tons of more people, and Jeff’s ego couldn’t allow it. So yes I blame Jeff from the fall of OW not Bobby who wanted to give us a a OW factory
The issue is imo, that’s what Bobby did to all the other projects, and look how they turned out…
Sure, OW needed more people, but they did *not* need more people hired by Kotic or with his mindset.
Unless, idk, maybe “Overwatch; immortal” would be a banger, who fucking knows… don’t you guys have phones?
Another mike zero
Bogor is completely correct on this one, Jeff could have have both thing going and instead wanted to continue to push his vision even though the game clearly had evolved beyond it.
Blizzard can still bonce back even after all the shit that happen because people in reality don't care, as long as the get what they want, if you don't believe me just look at EA and Riot history.
If they keep making their games better and give their fan base what they want ( right now it seems to be TV shows/ anime) Blizz will be good again.
it was me sorry :(
jeff sin was caring too much for overwatch, he wanted his baby to be a great thing, but thats not realistic with scumbag blizzard, he wanted to do something witch overwatch compared to aaron keller who is an useless and worthelss game director and did nothing
8:25 Sure buddy, compared to OW2 how there hasn't been a single good moment. And of course you are gonna feel miserable when you grind competitive.
Been saying what Bogur's saying about pvp vs pve for years. Ow1 blew up while it was a pvp experience not as a pve one. If they would have treated it as fps league, it'd be iconic instead of a meme even if it's still a pretty good game.
viscous nation!!!!!!!!!
i find it exceptionally hard to believe that bobby kotick wanted to hire more people
Why is it hard to believe? He wanted to reuse what he was using for cod assembly line. Doesnt mean it would have helped.
A broken clock is right twice a day, Bobby was a profit seeking business man and with more developers they'd in theory be able to put out more content thus gain more money
This is why I keep telling y'all to quit glazing Kaplan so much as if he was oh so faultless in this game's fall from grace.
His vision for PVE was stupid, and over promising so much before they had something truly ready to launch was even stupider. You don't make an announcement like that at BlizzCon 2019 unless you have something RIGHT around the corner, otherwise you get what we got, reputation wrecking disappointment wnen you under deliver.
Overwatch's main appeal is a PVP game, that was never going to change, so at *best* it would've been cool to just have a collection of story Archives/Missions to play through every few seasons as a *bonus* on top of the main game, but Jeff wanted to practically make an entirely new game...and WITHOUT even expanding the team to do it 🥴🥴🥴🥴
There's no way in hell y'all would let Aaron off the hook if he did some dumbass shit like that, so you better be holding "Uncle Jeff's" feet to the fire too; little wonder why the team felt so burnt out after a phenomenally stupid decision like that.
they show a lot on that blizzcon, they clearly have something already planned
glorp
Yes, it wasn’t only him buuuut, yea it was him
one patch to make most people happy, they either kill of dva or she get nuked with massive nerfs. i just hate the character in general, either on my team or the enemies.
how dare
yes he did, he contributed to the failure of overwatch
You have to be getting paid to spin this or you just click baiting. Jeff was all the devs had fighting for them and their families. Better hour, better pay, trying to keep them safe from sexual assault. This is a disgusting attack on someone who only did good for the game and his employees. Also he wanted more time for the new additions to the game but was forced to announce early by share holders. Making sure to never come back to this channel
Lmao Jeff Kaplan was unhealthy for the game and an awful dev, genuinely even back in the day I have NO fucking idea why people licked his boots
Did you even read what the answer was?
Fighting for your devs is very good and nice. But holding back the game by the same time is simple not good for the game.
meow
Nuh uh
comment
i don’t like mr kaplan
FIRST
damn u beat me
first