I straight up tell people I don't like overwatch, it just feels like doom scrolling for me and my brain just turns off when I play and the voices in my head fade away
Ngl I started playing mystery heroes and I've been having so much fun. I think the additional factor of the hero picks being out of my hands makes me tilt less, and if I lose who cares its fucking mystery heroes
Late ass reply but Mystery Heros is so much more fun because the people who play it are ones that actually have a grasp on most characters, so they're capable of playing well despite the swaps. As compared to other modes where it's just a shitshow of throwing and one tricks
Flats sounds like a caring father on a low income who are scared he wont make enough in the coming months to feed his family and keep them alive and happy.
really enjoyable to listen to u guys just chat like this. i love hearing you guys talk even if not about ow like the ones with valeria and somnus soo good
the whole 5v5 vs 6v6 argument could be settled if the devs just tried it. Release a limited time 6v6 game mode for a month or so to let people test it with some buffs and nerfs to accomodate 6v6 again and see how it goes. The thing that annoys me most about this argument is that we haven't tested it. Overwatch 1 went years without any major changes so we can't consider that as a test. There's been plenty of changes since and we can even make changes to the 6v6 mode to see what works if there is a way to make it work Flats also mentioned something in one of his videos; 'Why are there tank busting DPS in the game now that we only have 1 tank?' - This is also something to consider looking into. Tanks still get rolled in games without a tank busting DPS but it's a hell of a lot worse when there's a Bastion in the game for example
They should make some kind of change to quickplay during a weekend where they test out wacky ideas like 6v6, maybe they could call it quick play hacked like sombra hacked quickplay
they arnt going to do it because the game crashes with 5v5, theyve fked with the code too much to have 6v6 without seriously toning down the visual clutter. if 2 mauga ults can crash the game i cant imagine how much more common it will be in 6v6
@@itsOZone there's ways to fix things. It's their job. But yeah, the visual clutter is already an issue and I agree that two tanks will make it worse. I also don't understand how they can talk about trying to minimize visual clutter and yet here we are with some of the biggest visual clutter we've seen in the game
the amount of time orisa has spent being either meta or a strong pick in ow2 is completely ridiculous especially for a hero with such a boring kit they could make anything meta and its just always orisa if shes not meta one patch she WILL be on the next.
Yeah. =( S1: ok pick S2: meta (mostly to counter Roadhog in fairness, but still) S3: soft meta S4: meta S5... Honestly, missed this Season so idk, but I'd imagine she was good. S6: hard meta S7: soft meta S8: kinda bad until the mid-season... Then giga-broken. S9: kinda meh pre mid-season, then hard-meta. S10: hard meta until the hotfix, now kinda meh. I hate to say it, because back in S3 and before I felt Orisa being strong was a skill issue. It was really easy for me to counter Orisa by just diving backline, because back then Supports actually... Well y'know... Died. And Orisa is insanely reliant on heals to sustain, and terrible at protecting her backline. Ever since Supports crossed the point of no return though, now it doesn't matter Orisa can't protect her backline - she does not need to anymore usually.
Honestly I'll say it. I played OW1 since beta, never stopped playing. You guys are just jaded, I still have a ton of fun with the game. Maybe it's a side effect of forcing yourselves to play 6 hours a day every day.
Tank play will always be atrocious unless you play the meta. There is way too big of a gap between top tanks and and bottom tier tanks. Rein just dies the second he slightly irritates the enemy team and 3 out of 5 of the enemy team switches to counters.
hes been saying hes working out the logistics to go full variety streamer. hes setting up another channel and getting editors to pull the content from his streams, etc...
Been playing on and off since day one of overwatch 1. Lately I found and played with a bunch of people who are brand new to the game and honestly, it makes the game so much more fun again. Getting to experience the surprise and wonder vicariously through friends who are new to the game while playing my characters I am comfortable with just adds a new dimension to the experience. I think taking extended breaks from the game and then coming back to it with newbies is way more fun than trying to sweat
Well OW1 balance was abandoned for 3 years with double shield running rampant so it’s pretty hard to be worse than that. Hot take, but winning 1 fight on Winston or Ball and the enemy team immediately 5x swapping to your counters feels worse than anything I encountered in 6v6.
I only play on the switch and the only times the characters are "just orbs" is when i get backfilled cus the game is trying to load everything quick and it takes a while for the characters to load. its not common for it to happen tho.
A tank counter swapping your tank pick is such a horrendous part of the experience. I recently started enjoying JQ more and, what do you know, suddenly I only play against Roadhogs. Before that I mostly played Rein and to nobody’s surprise I only played against Mauga and Orisa. Counterswapping is the one thing that has the most impact on the dread experienced by tank players. And here I only mentioned the tanks swapping nevermind the rest of the team. 5v5 is the leading cause of counterswapping bringing so much value for so little effort. Bogur saying stuff like “We complain about things then and we do now.” is just not it, its whataboutism and not an actual rebuttal to the 6v6 reasoning.
i loooove playing winston, getting one good play, and then suddenly the enemy team comes out with ana, brig, reaper, bastion, and hog. i'm not a 6v6 truther but it's so disingenuous to ignore the fact that having 2 tanks genuinely does make a significant difference to the tank experience.
I genuinely think LFG would help the game. Not interacting with anyone at all in a team based game really kills the team based vibe lol. And I used LFG all the time in OW1, it was pretty populated. Nothing crazy, but I waited at most 3-4 minutes for a group. And being able to drop in and out of groups easily was really nice.
i had an experience recently where we had a relatively not-good roadhog. my support and i were not getting peeled much, and while we did have a lot of healing, roadhog literally almost outhealed us. at what point does tank just become a balance of dps and support
Flats said there are a lot of problems and they just don’t know which one to fix first and I’m just sitting here like yeah but that’s also cos they keep creating more issues I.e. the health buff, healing passive for everyone, projectile size change + other that I can’t think of rn cos I’m tired
Two takeaways as a new OW player. 1) It's not just the old streamers. I basically don't play anymore because the game feels like crap. 2) There are no new OW streamers bc the game sucks. The new changes in S9 and S10 switched it up a bit, but the core gameplay loop is garbage and I don't think they'll be able to fix it with a seasonal content patch
I feel like I’m not really learning anything or improving my self anymore with Overwatch 2 as it’s like having constant training wheels on a bike, while in Overwatch 1 I actually knew where I needed to improve as it felt more (team based) and required more communication to achieve a win especially in comp.
I feel the same way I'm burnt out on the game and I thought it weird I felt it at the same time they have. Then flats said the same thing about them all feeling that way at the same time. whats happening am I crazy
Y’know I didn’t think about it that way but honestly I agree, the whole “press button, get value” thing is so true at least to me Might be old me talking but it felt like you had to either play it safe or go balls to the wall in old ow. Now? Nahhh you make a mistake and it’s a suzu or lifegrip to the rescue at the single click of a button, or you’re trying to get a kill and it’s a tp or petal away Unless you are just GIGA feeding the consequences of ow2 feel non existent sometimes
ameliorate /əˈmiːlɪəreɪt/ verbformal 3rd person present: ameliorates make (something bad or unsatisfactory) better. "the reform did much to ameliorate living standards"
What they should introduce is a 6v6 arcade game mode so that people could have a more informed decision on the debate. I feel like for me the game is fine because in silver I have somewhere to grind towards but my only issue is Mauga. Skilless, no one counterswaps him, he gets free win
Since everyone is asking ill give my take as someone who has never played 6v6. I am in plat 1 (was diamond 1 before rank reset) i have around 150 hours since starting tank in season 7 (joind ow2 in season 4 ish). I think tank is mostly fine until probably in upper diamond. In plat you can die very quickly if you make dumb mistakes but as long as you play smart you can have a lot of inpact on the game. There are still moments, even in plat that are just dumb and you are a punching bag for the whole enemy team. The biggesnt problem i have is when 3 or more people counterswap you. I had a game tonight where i won the first fight as winton and the team walks out on reaper bastion hog. I can generally work around a tank counter swap however when the dps start doing it im done for. Tldr: tank survivability is fine until diamond. Counterswapping only sucks when the whole team does it. But not if its just the tank or a dps
I gotta disagree. A tank counter swapping your tank pick is such a horrendous part of the experience. I recently started enjoying JQ more and, what do you know, suddenly I only play against Roadhogs. Before that I mostly played Rein and to nobody’s surprise I only played against Mauga and Orisa. Counterswapping is the one thing that has the most impact on the dread experienced by tank players. And here I only mentioned the tanks swapping nevermind the rest of the team. 5v5 is the leading cause of counterswapping bringing so much value for so little effort. Bogur saying stuff like “We complain about things then and we do now.” is just not it, its whataboutism and not an actual rebuttal to the 6v6 reasoning.
Tank isn’t what it used to be, all it is is just counter swapping and it’s no fun at all. It’s a miserable experience and with 6v6 it was a lot more complex and diverse on how to play with your team. The synergy was like no other… it sucks especially when you try so hard and do everything right but you have an incompetent tank and the whole game is just based off who’s got the better tank w the better brain to tank swap.
@JoJo-ul6cm I can't argue with your experience with tanks counter swapping you ruining the game. But in my experience, at least jn plat and below just the tank swapping is pretty easy to deal with. I can't tell you how many times they'll swap against me but the rest of my team is already really good against their swap which makes their swap terrible. Also whenever they swap it feels like they just really suck because they don't even know how to play the character well. I can definitely see 6v6 being a solution. Just to alleviate the value one person gets so it's not always a tank dif
@@alexboi9454 Yes, admittedly theres more nuance to the counterswapping. It is not always a free win. Hell Id say I win most of my games where the enemy team focuses on counterswapping me. That really does not change that I either have way less impact the rest of the match or just do not get to play unless I swap. Unfortunately in the higher ranks people are also have a better understanding of what makes the bad tank match ups bad, so I can imagine that around plat counterswapping is less prevalent.
Honestly I took a long break from Overwatch and I’ve been having such a good time since coming back. It makes me feel bad cause the streamers can’t take a break as easily as me cause algorithms and such
the 6v6 queue time issue is not a problem for most ranks and so everyone who isnt near the top ranks in overwatch genuinely has no reason to not want to crawl back to 6v6. also who cares about switch.
Wanna know how you fix overwatch? Death chat. Evertime you kill someone you hear 3s of their mic, like cod. The sheer dopamine release would easily fix the game.
I still stand by my idea that the solution to all of this is to change the queue system to be similar to how WoW does BG queues. Allow a player to queue up for more than one game mode at a time. This would then allow OW to open up to more wide range of comp game formats. You could have ranked classic 6v6, ow2 5v5 and then expand into new formats like Role lock 3v3v3v3 Flashpoint with slightly modifed 2cp maps thrown in. Like Any one of the 4 cap points in a 2cp map could open after one of the 3s team caps it an then jus have random spawn points that are at least X yards from an enemy player. Might even be able to take that idea further an make a modified payload/push mode for 4 teams of 3 but instead of pushing the objective it starts on one end of the map an moves nonstop to the end. Teams score 1 point per 3 seconds they stay on the payload/pushbot uncontested. Team with most points when it reaches the end wins. Changing OW's design philosophy this way would ensure the game doesn't grow stale or players end up feeling pushed to play modes an maps they hate. And with multi-format queuing you'd solve any potential queue time problems. They might increase a little bit but you know players wouldn't notice or care if they waited a lil longer for the style of game they logged in wanting to play instead of playing the game design russian roulette that is queing up now. I mean, this system has worked for world of warcraft BGs for what, like a frickin decade at this point?
"Oh but then it couldn't run on the switch! yada yada" Then it's time to start removing frickin visual clutter and ults that require quantum physics to calculate But 4 maugas! Got a solution there to that also solves counter swaping. In comp modes with multiple rounds, you can't play the same heroes you played last round. Much like how those Nuzlock challenges work. This would take getting used to, but it would also force players to have back up heroes an make their hero choices matter an give an actual risk/reward to swapping outside of ult econ
its the removal of counterplay. WoW did the same damn thing back after burning crusade, where they removed things like dodge stats to armor, the big damage players probablay complaind because they coudlnt get all their damage out and felt it was unfair but that was exactly what people needed to counterplay those high damagers. its all about dumbing things down and when they do that it removes counter play and personalization in play style to the point its all about the meta rather than playing to have fun and play your way.
lmfao i got that bug during comp where i just kept shooting on soldier, idk what is causing it but it's def something weird in the game bc my mouse was perfectly fine everywhere else
I was actually having fun and enjoying overwatch 2, and then I got to test Marvel Rivals and it's so over. The honeymoon phase ran out, and I still much much prefer to play Marvel Rivals even in its current state. Then the tiny little useless mid season patch happened for ow2 and it just solidified it. I was just coping on overwatch 2 Aware (I have to go back to it until Marvel Rivals release)
I was enjoying overwatch whenever it was overwatch one originally but whenever overwatch two got released I thought it was alright. Eventually however I started getting unsatisfied with this game and whenever I would talk about something wrong with the game my friends would completely disregard it and come up with some excuse to disregard my concerns for the health of the game and how the gameplay loop felt different compared to overwatch one. Then I started playing other games and had fun on them ; I don't really play overwatch two anymore.
I mean content creators are the reason why the balancing team is scared to nerf things, they should not give a fk about what ppl say just do ur thing we will figure it out like in the old days we are gamers we don’t know shit besides playing the game.
Guys, this is easy. Go play DMCV, Monster Hunter, Zone of the Enders 2, High Fi Rush, Elden Ring, Sekiro, etc. go play something that you will enjoy. If you want to come back after, do it cool. If you liked Marvel Rivals, just wait for that. If OW is not doing it for you, just stop playing. There are way too many good games to be stuck in one that you don't enjoy.
Problem is, no other streamers will touch OW cause people who don't play the game hate it even more than people who do (just watch any Critical/Asmongold video on OW)
If I could give both of you some advice it would be to genuinely just stop playing OW I know it's hard but genuinely it just sounds like burnout and just leaving the game and trying different games and content styles could be a good change of pace instead of just playing the game until you hate it and never coming back to it, I feel like leaving the game for a while could revitalize the feeling of starting again rather than not stopping and ending hating the game because genuinely both Flats and Bogur have a great potential for content creation and it's something that I have seen other people struggle with like the anime man just got so fed up with anime that he just stopped watching something that he used to enjoy because he forced himself to watch everything, it's better to just stop and try new things instead of burning yourself up for a game that you just don't really enjoy anymore
I wanna see a video called overwatch or struggling with depression. Its just clips of streamers complaining about overwatch but framed like they are talking about serious psychological issues they have with chat.
My support teammate started blaming me for not enough heals but not the dps who were 8-12 and 7-15. I am out here trying to move the payload. Geting mercy as kiriko and healing as well. We are practically in a 3v5 and he decides to flame me for some reason. I decided to stop helping him because I would have to waste suzus on him last push just so that he could survive. He started dying for his own foolishness and started flaming me more. Then it turned into a 2v5 because he decided to stay afk in spawn for 20 seconds and when nobody gave a shit to his yapping he returned.
im not trying to cause an argument, but there is a huge difference between ow1 and ow2, that being: overwatch 2 has live support and is regularly receiving patches. how could you forget the content drought and the devs literally refusing to touch the game for years? im not saying Everything would be solved with a switch back to 6v6, but it Would solve plenty of the current issues the dev team is currently inventing new problems in order to solve; like trying to buff a solo tank into oblivion, adding dmg+healing passive to overcompensate for there only being one tank. imagine if they had removed one support and gigabuffed all supports in order to overcompensate for there being only one support. there would be no room for skill expression as that support because the whole time youre healbotting and getting hard targeted by enemies. tank queue times rose in ow1 because the devs abandoned the game in a shit double shield + aoe healing meta, of course no one would want to queue for the role. it feels disingenuous at this point to continue bringing up ow1 queue times, especially considering the fact we are at the SAME point with queue times, and the game is in an arguably WORSE state than it was when it was abandoned. plus, ow2 isnt paywalled, so more people have access to the game, therefore more players who can potentially queue tank. there really is a difference and it would be nice if people werent so patronizing to people who are interesting in discussing it
I mean I guess the same could be said about the streamer community. These are the ppl complaining about infostruckture, plumbing, but don't do shit but stare at a monitor all day
I can't stand how hard Overwatch content creators cope. (Let alone the larger community.) The game is terrible guys, just accept it. Bogur is finally realizing what Seagull did half a decade ago.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 Not anything close to how he used to. Once upon a time Seagull was one of if not the best Overwatch player. Long, long ago.
@@minimalgrammar1276Yes you know it happens when you have 10k+ hours in the game to not not want to play it anymore. These guys hsve thousands of hours in the game and stream non stop for hours each day. OW could be the best game in the world and burnout would still hit eventually.
you know what, I'm tired of hearing people bi*ch about 5v5 or 6v6 being better-- what if we just had BOTH optionally. One more mode that has 6 player layout enabled. And everyone who thinks it was sooooo bad can avoid it and everyone who thinks it was soooo good can play it all day every day w/e.
I genuinely just wonder if Bogur is right and the OG streamers are just too burnt out and jaded by now. Which would not be surprising. Anyone would get burnt out doing the same thing for such a long time, especially in such a weird and hectic environment as OW (with all the scandals and ups-and-downs and external toxicity towards the game). Streamers are financially dependent on playing the game which would no doubt alter their view and enjoyement of it. And it isn't super shocking that many of them are experiencing the same feelings (or similar) as they were all doing the same thing more or less for a long time. Maybe they just need a break from OW or some variety.
What if I create an account called XxTheEdgiestEdgerxX and will be forcing myself to stream ow2 almost every day just to prove that new players don't enjoy ow2 much too?
this game is such a brain dead rock paper scissors loop 24/7 and no matter nothing they change they cant even creep anywhere near the highest peaks of 6v6. there was no 5v5 era that was half as fun as peak overwatch. when tanks switching and support comps wasnt the entire deciding factor of every game. i ONLY have fun on DPS nowadays because i can feel some semblance of variety. p.s IM SO FUCKING SICK OF SUZU.
Here's a big fact nobody asked for 5v5 for the start. And people that support 5v5 can't even find a solution to fixing the game. and dont tell me that they can't fix 6v6 oh wait they reworked many tanks so tgeirs less shield. All they needed to do is rework sigma cuz he doesn't need 2 abilities that eat up projectiles. And everyone else will have to decrease their defense capabilities. Since theirs 2 tanks. They never reworked anyone in 6v6 or haven't tried to. Because of ow2 which is a massive failure. Ow2 had more time than ow1 cuz whenever they released sig who plays like a 5v5 tank ow devs stopped focusing on 6v6. Now look at ow2 it's a complete freaking mess and is getting trashed on by marvel rivals.
Overwatch is like an addiction except it has 0 dopamine and ALL side effects
0.2% of the time you get the dopamine 😂
That is the truest thing ive ever heard omg
I straight up tell people I don't like overwatch, it just feels like doom scrolling for me and my brain just turns off when I play and the voices in my head fade away
it's like crack but without the benefits
"Who the fuck is saltyphish?"
Lol, Philipe ain't gonna be happy
big oof
Ngl I started playing mystery heroes and I've been having so much fun. I think the additional factor of the hero picks being out of my hands makes me tilt less, and if I lose who cares its fucking mystery heroes
HOLY that game mode has PLAYERS?????
i could never find a game
@@ghostly_elly yup! It's fine to flex my multi character skill rolling one tricks kek
@@ghostly_elly Like 1-2 minute queues usually for me
Late ass reply but Mystery Heros is so much more fun because the people who play it are ones that actually have a grasp on most characters, so they're capable of playing well despite the swaps. As compared to other modes where it's just a shitshow of throwing and one tricks
we are witnessing flats' slow turn to the dark side becoming a 6v6'er
6v6 is the correct path
@@XNSeverreject 6v6, embrace 17v17
@@XNSever6v6 is the wrong fucking path dude
I hope he tries out the 6v6 custom game. I had a couple of games and I genuinely liked OW again.
@@tire_iron488Obviously you've never touched tank in your life.
Flats sounds like a caring father on a low income who are scared he wont make enough in the coming months to feed his family and keep them alive and happy.
Stream career be like
“My Overwatch Academia” is all I could think about when Bogur was talking about getting new OW streamers involved
really enjoyable to listen to u guys just chat like this. i love hearing you guys talk even if not about ow like the ones with valeria and somnus soo good
as a super casual player, I preferred 6v6 just because my brother and I had so much fun duo tanking together :)
That'd be so fkn fun
@@Jekdumaduo tanking was lots of fun-I’m a DPS main now though 😢
Still talk to my old tank duo to this day, tank bonds last
Marvel Rivals comment in the first two and a half minutes. Bogur knew the savior was coming.
the whole 5v5 vs 6v6 argument could be settled if the devs just tried it. Release a limited time 6v6 game mode for a month or so to let people test it with some buffs and nerfs to accomodate 6v6 again and see how it goes. The thing that annoys me most about this argument is that we haven't tested it. Overwatch 1 went years without any major changes so we can't consider that as a test. There's been plenty of changes since and we can even make changes to the 6v6 mode to see what works if there is a way to make it work
Flats also mentioned something in one of his videos; 'Why are there tank busting DPS in the game now that we only have 1 tank?' - This is also something to consider looking into. Tanks still get rolled in games without a tank busting DPS but it's a hell of a lot worse when there's a Bastion in the game for example
They should make some kind of change to quickplay during a weekend where they test out wacky ideas like 6v6, maybe they could call it quick play hacked like sombra hacked quickplay
I've wondered this as well, I genuinely think it's because the devs are scared to see the results.
they arnt going to do it because the game crashes with 5v5, theyve fked with the code too much to have 6v6 without seriously toning down the visual clutter. if 2 mauga ults can crash the game i cant imagine how much more common it will be in 6v6
@@itsOZone they just need to do what customs do and slow down the game when it's dying
@@itsOZone there's ways to fix things. It's their job. But yeah, the visual clutter is already an issue and I agree that two tanks will make it worse. I also don't understand how they can talk about trying to minimize visual clutter and yet here we are with some of the biggest visual clutter we've seen in the game
the amount of time orisa has spent being either meta or a strong pick in ow2 is completely ridiculous especially for a hero with such a boring kit they could make anything meta and its just always orisa if shes not meta one patch she WILL be on the next.
Yeah. =(
S1: ok pick
S2: meta (mostly to counter Roadhog in fairness, but still)
S3: soft meta
S4: meta
S5... Honestly, missed this Season so idk, but I'd imagine she was good.
S6: hard meta
S7: soft meta
S8: kinda bad until the mid-season... Then giga-broken.
S9: kinda meh pre mid-season, then hard-meta.
S10: hard meta until the hotfix, now kinda meh.
I hate to say it, because back in S3 and before I felt Orisa being strong was a skill issue. It was really easy for me to counter Orisa by just diving backline, because back then Supports actually... Well y'know... Died.
And Orisa is insanely reliant on heals to sustain, and terrible at protecting her backline.
Ever since Supports crossed the point of no return though, now it doesn't matter Orisa can't protect her backline - she does not need to anymore usually.
Sojourn out of meta when
yeah but what are you guys gonna whine about when she's finally nerfed??? 🤔
I wish Mauga was still a viable pick against Orisa, her having a counter felt so good
Really like this type of vid, chill conversation abt the game goes hard fr
My best friend and I call Overwatch a toxic relationship that you keep going back to no matter how badly you’re treated by it.
Honestly I'll say it. I played OW1 since beta, never stopped playing. You guys are just jaded, I still have a ton of fun with the game. Maybe it's a side effect of forcing yourselves to play 6 hours a day every day.
Tank play will always be atrocious unless you play the meta. There is way too big of a gap between top tanks and and bottom tier tanks. Rein just dies the second he slightly irritates the enemy team and 3 out of 5 of the enemy team switches to counters.
“No, it’s the kids who are wrong”- flats probably
The only 2 OW creators I consistently enjoy watching :)
I think flats definitely needs a break. He does not seem to like overwatch right now and needs to not play for like 4 or so seasons.
He should hit the gym , would probably help him feel better
hes been saying hes working out the logistics to go full variety streamer. hes setting up another channel and getting editors to pull the content from his streams, etc...
@@solblaze8055 You must think yourself really smart huh
9:07 when he said "you die, respawn, die again, maybe you'll kill them next fight" that's exactly how it fucking feels
ow has gone from chess to checkers
lol went from chess to snakes and ladders 😂
@@b-o-n-d-y9478 without the ladders
well- its more like they skipped checkers and went connect 4😭😭😭
It'd be awesome if people like Flats and Bogur could be on the dev team, they both make a lot of really good points
Been playing on and off since day one of overwatch 1. Lately I found and played with a bunch of people who are brand new to the game and honestly, it makes the game so much more fun again. Getting to experience the surprise and wonder vicariously through friends who are new to the game while playing my characters I am comfortable with just adds a new dimension to the experience. I think taking extended breaks from the game and then coming back to it with newbies is way more fun than trying to sweat
3:50 Flats learns the correct way to play Junkrat.
I think a good way to describe 6v6 is that at its peak is was much better but at its lowest it was much worse then overwatch 2
Well OW1 balance was abandoned for 3 years with double shield running rampant so it’s pretty hard to be worse than that.
Hot take, but winning 1 fight on Winston or Ball and the enemy team immediately 5x swapping to your counters feels worse than anything I encountered in 6v6.
Keep in mind its worse was also when it was abandoned for 3 years
Saying lockin to your teamates is literally the nicest way to say it. Everyone should be trying to win.
flats is such a chill guy
i just LOVE getting 1 kill on winston and than all of the enemy team counterswaps me with mauga, bastion, reaper, ana zen
Oh you would love playing Genji
Tbh I really liked the videos of Flats playing Valorant. I’d def be willing to see him play it more often
"can i call you john?"
BOGUR ILY SM ILY ILY❤️
I only play on the switch and the only times the characters are "just orbs" is when i get backfilled cus the game is trying to load everything quick and it takes a while for the characters to load.
its not common for it to happen tho.
Ngl, I want flashbang back.
A tank counter swapping your tank pick is such a horrendous part of the experience. I recently started enjoying JQ more and, what do you know, suddenly I only play against Roadhogs. Before that I mostly played Rein and to nobody’s surprise I only played against Mauga and Orisa. Counterswapping is the one thing that has the most impact on the dread experienced by tank players. And here I only mentioned the tanks swapping nevermind the rest of the team. 5v5 is the leading cause of counterswapping bringing so much value for so little effort. Bogur saying stuff like “We complain about things then and we do now.” is just not it, its whataboutism and not an actual rebuttal to the 6v6 reasoning.
i loooove playing winston, getting one good play, and then suddenly the enemy team comes out with ana, brig, reaper, bastion, and hog. i'm not a 6v6 truther but it's so disingenuous to ignore the fact that having 2 tanks genuinely does make a significant difference to the tank experience.
8:10 exactly how Samito predicted it 5 months ago, actually paraphrasing Sam on this take tbh.
I genuinely think LFG would help the game. Not interacting with anyone at all in a team based game really kills the team based vibe lol. And I used LFG all the time in OW1, it was pretty populated. Nothing crazy, but I waited at most 3-4 minutes for a group. And being able to drop in and out of groups easily was really nice.
i had an experience recently where we had a relatively not-good roadhog. my support and i were not getting peeled much, and while we did have a lot of healing, roadhog literally almost outhealed us. at what point does tank just become a balance of dps and support
I think if OW1 was still available things would be better
Flats said there are a lot of problems and they just don’t know which one to fix first and I’m just sitting here like yeah but that’s also cos they keep creating more issues I.e. the health buff, healing passive for everyone, projectile size change + other that I can’t think of rn cos I’m tired
Two takeaways as a new OW player. 1) It's not just the old streamers. I basically don't play anymore because the game feels like crap. 2) There are no new OW streamers bc the game sucks. The new changes in S9 and S10 switched it up a bit, but the core gameplay loop is garbage and I don't think they'll be able to fix it with a seasonal content patch
I feel like I’m not really learning anything or improving my self anymore with Overwatch 2 as it’s like having constant training wheels on a bike, while in Overwatch 1 I actually knew where I needed to improve as it felt more (team based) and required more communication to achieve a win especially in comp.
Also sorry for the long comment
Also tank felt more tank like back in Overwatch 1, just saying.
I feel the same way I'm burnt out on the game and I thought it weird I felt it at the same time they have. Then flats said the same thing about them all feeling that way at the same time. whats happening am I crazy
this is why ow1 and ow2 should have been actual seperate games cause when ur like "fuck it im sick of 5v5" you could go hang out in the old game
Y’know I didn’t think about it that way but honestly I agree, the whole “press button, get value” thing is so true at least to me
Might be old me talking but it felt like you had to either play it safe or go balls to the wall in old ow. Now? Nahhh you make a mistake and it’s a suzu or lifegrip to the rescue at the single click of a button, or you’re trying to get a kill and it’s a tp or petal away
Unless you are just GIGA feeding the consequences of ow2 feel non existent sometimes
anyone else got frustrated at the end that bogur didn't ult llike twice?
Sharing the cynicism ameliorates the scars of disappointment
ameliorate /əˈmiːlɪəreɪt/ verbformal 3rd person present: ameliorates make (something bad or unsatisfactory) better. "the reform did much to ameliorate living standards"
Preach brother 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥
Mouse broke! Call the software engineer!
What they should introduce is a 6v6 arcade game mode so that people could have a more informed decision on the debate. I feel like for me the game is fine because in silver I have somewhere to grind towards but my only issue is Mauga. Skilless, no one counterswaps him, he gets free win
Nintendo switch on my GOAT😂. I still play on it in season 13
Since everyone is asking ill give my take as someone who has never played 6v6. I am in plat 1 (was diamond 1 before rank reset) i have around 150 hours since starting tank in season 7 (joind ow2 in season 4 ish). I think tank is mostly fine until probably in upper diamond. In plat you can die very quickly if you make dumb mistakes but as long as you play smart you can have a lot of inpact on the game. There are still moments, even in plat that are just dumb and you are a punching bag for the whole enemy team. The biggesnt problem i have is when 3 or more people counterswap you. I had a game tonight where i won the first fight as winton and the team walks out on reaper bastion hog. I can generally work around a tank counter swap however when the dps start doing it im done for.
Tldr: tank survivability is fine until diamond. Counterswapping only sucks when the whole team does it. But not if its just the tank or a dps
I gotta disagree. A tank counter swapping your tank pick is such a horrendous part of the experience. I recently started enjoying JQ more and, what do you know, suddenly I only play against Roadhogs. Before that I mostly played Rein and to nobody’s surprise I only played against Mauga and Orisa. Counterswapping is the one thing that has the most impact on the dread experienced by tank players. And here I only mentioned the tanks swapping nevermind the rest of the team. 5v5 is the leading cause of counterswapping bringing so much value for so little effort. Bogur saying stuff like “We complain about things then and we do now.” is just not it, its whataboutism and not an actual rebuttal to the 6v6 reasoning.
Tank isn’t what it used to be, all it is is just counter swapping and it’s no fun at all. It’s a miserable experience and with 6v6 it was a lot more complex and diverse on how to play with your team. The synergy was like no other… it sucks especially when you try so hard and do everything right but you have an incompetent tank and the whole game is just based off who’s got the better tank w the better brain to tank swap.
@JoJo-ul6cm I can't argue with your experience with tanks counter swapping you ruining the game. But in my experience, at least jn plat and below just the tank swapping is pretty easy to deal with. I can't tell you how many times they'll swap against me but the rest of my team is already really good against their swap which makes their swap terrible. Also whenever they swap it feels like they just really suck because they don't even know how to play the character well. I can definitely see 6v6 being a solution. Just to alleviate the value one person gets so it's not always a tank dif
@@alexboi9454 Yes, admittedly theres more nuance to the counterswapping. It is not always a free win. Hell Id say I win most of my games where the enemy team focuses on counterswapping me. That really does not change that I either have way less impact the rest of the match or just do not get to play unless I swap. Unfortunately in the higher ranks people are also have a better understanding of what makes the bad tank match ups bad, so I can imagine that around plat counterswapping is less prevalent.
i do miss duo tanking
Honestly I took a long break from Overwatch and I’ve been having such a good time since coming back. It makes me feel bad cause the streamers can’t take a break as easily as me cause algorithms and such
the 6v6 queue time issue is not a problem for most ranks and so everyone who isnt near the top ranks in overwatch genuinely has no reason to not want to crawl back to 6v6. also who cares about switch.
Wanna know how you fix overwatch? Death chat. Evertime you kill someone you hear 3s of their mic, like cod. The sheer dopamine release would easily fix the game.
I still stand by my idea that the solution to all of this is to change the queue system to be similar to how WoW does BG queues. Allow a player to queue up for more than one game mode at a time. This would then allow OW to open up to more wide range of comp game formats. You could have ranked classic 6v6, ow2 5v5 and then expand into new formats like Role lock 3v3v3v3 Flashpoint with slightly modifed 2cp maps thrown in. Like Any one of the 4 cap points in a 2cp map could open after one of the 3s team caps it an then jus have random spawn points that are at least X yards from an enemy player. Might even be able to take that idea further an make a modified payload/push mode for 4 teams of 3 but instead of pushing the objective it starts on one end of the map an moves nonstop to the end. Teams score 1 point per 3 seconds they stay on the payload/pushbot uncontested. Team with most points when it reaches the end wins.
Changing OW's design philosophy this way would ensure the game doesn't grow stale or players end up feeling pushed to play modes an maps they hate. And with multi-format queuing you'd solve any potential queue time problems. They might increase a little bit but you know players wouldn't notice or care if they waited a lil longer for the style of game they logged in wanting to play instead of playing the game design russian roulette that is queing up now. I mean, this system has worked for world of warcraft BGs for what, like a frickin decade at this point?
"Oh but then it couldn't run on the switch! yada yada" Then it's time to start removing frickin visual clutter and ults that require quantum physics to calculate
But 4 maugas! Got a solution there to that also solves counter swaping. In comp modes with multiple rounds, you can't play the same heroes you played last round. Much like how those Nuzlock challenges work. This would take getting used to, but it would also force players to have back up heroes an make their hero choices matter an give an actual risk/reward to swapping outside of ult econ
Actual preach.
its the removal of counterplay. WoW did the same damn thing back after burning crusade, where they removed things like dodge stats to armor, the big damage players probablay complaind because they coudlnt get all their damage out and felt it was unfair but that was exactly what people needed to counterplay those high damagers. its all about dumbing things down and when they do that it removes counter play and personalization in play style to the point its all about the meta rather than playing to have fun and play your way.
lmfao i got that bug during comp where i just kept shooting on soldier, idk what is causing it but it's def something weird in the game bc my mouse was perfectly fine everywhere else
I was actually having fun and enjoying overwatch 2, and then I got to test Marvel Rivals and it's so over.
The honeymoon phase ran out, and I still much much prefer to play Marvel Rivals even in its current state. Then the tiny little useless mid season patch happened for ow2 and it just solidified it.
I was just coping on overwatch 2 Aware (I have to go back to it until Marvel Rivals release)
goodbye
if you want a fun multiplayer game while waiting ultimate chicken horse is on sale rn
I was enjoying overwatch whenever it was overwatch one originally but whenever overwatch two got released I thought it was alright. Eventually however I started getting unsatisfied with this game and whenever I would talk about something wrong with the game my friends would completely disregard it and come up with some excuse to disregard my concerns for the health of the game and how the gameplay loop felt different compared to overwatch one. Then I started playing other games and had fun on them ; I don't really play overwatch two anymore.
I mean content creators are the reason why the balancing team is scared to nerf things, they should not give a fk about what ppl say just do ur thing we will figure it out like in the old days we are gamers we don’t know shit besides playing the game.
Papers Please is always a good watch
"Tank is op"
I think you feel that way cuz its your work and you do it 8 hours a day. Anybody would get bored. Work is work, you learn to hate it.
Guys, this is easy. Go play DMCV, Monster Hunter, Zone of the Enders 2, High Fi Rush, Elden Ring, Sekiro, etc. go play something that you will enjoy. If you want to come back after, do it cool. If you liked Marvel Rivals, just wait for that.
If OW is not doing it for you, just stop playing. There are way too many good games to be stuck in one that you don't enjoy.
bingus
Overwatch feels like a long toxic relationship with a girlfriend, where both sides try to do something, but it doesn't get better
Problem is, no other streamers will touch OW cause people who don't play the game hate it even more than people who do (just watch any Critical/Asmongold video on OW)
Maybe we need both 5v5 and 6v6 or counter bans
that poor transcendece was expiring.
If I could give both of you some advice it would be to genuinely just stop playing OW I know it's hard but genuinely it just sounds like burnout and just leaving the game and trying different games and content styles could be a good change of pace instead of just playing the game until you hate it and never coming back to it, I feel like leaving the game for a while could revitalize the feeling of starting again rather than not stopping and ending hating the game because genuinely both Flats and Bogur have a great potential for content creation and it's something that I have seen other people struggle with like the anime man just got so fed up with anime that he just stopped watching something that he used to enjoy because he forced himself to watch everything, it's better to just stop and try new things instead of burning yourself up for a game that you just don't really enjoy anymore
I wanna see a video called overwatch or struggling with depression. Its just clips of streamers complaining about overwatch but framed like they are talking about serious psychological issues they have with chat.
bogur might be allergic to pressing Q
It's Cass so it's essentially another reload.
u act like cass ult has ever turned the tide of a fight.
Bingus
bingus
13:55 Audio glitch around hear
6v6 when?
My support teammate started blaming me for not enough heals but not the dps who were 8-12 and 7-15. I am out here trying to move the payload. Geting mercy as kiriko and healing as well. We are practically in a 3v5 and he decides to flame me for some reason. I decided to stop helping him because I would have to waste suzus on him last push just so that he could survive. He started dying for his own foolishness and started flaming me more. Then it turned into a 2v5 because he decided to stay afk in spawn for 20 seconds and when nobody gave a shit to his yapping he returned.
im not trying to cause an argument, but there is a huge difference between ow1 and ow2, that being: overwatch 2 has live support and is regularly receiving patches. how could you forget the content drought and the devs literally refusing to touch the game for years? im not saying Everything would be solved with a switch back to 6v6, but it Would solve plenty of the current issues the dev team is currently inventing new problems in order to solve; like trying to buff a solo tank into oblivion, adding dmg+healing passive to overcompensate for there only being one tank. imagine if they had removed one support and gigabuffed all supports in order to overcompensate for there being only one support. there would be no room for skill expression as that support because the whole time youre healbotting and getting hard targeted by enemies. tank queue times rose in ow1 because the devs abandoned the game in a shit double shield + aoe healing meta, of course no one would want to queue for the role. it feels disingenuous at this point to continue bringing up ow1 queue times, especially considering the fact we are at the SAME point with queue times, and the game is in an arguably WORSE state than it was when it was abandoned. plus, ow2 isnt paywalled, so more people have access to the game, therefore more players who can potentially queue tank. there really is a difference and it would be nice if people werent so patronizing to people who are interesting in discussing it
I mean I guess the same could be said about the streamer community. These are the ppl complaining about infostruckture, plumbing, but don't do shit but stare at a monitor all day
Just make it a gamemode?
Its my favorite 2nd person who reach gm LW and and my boosted streamer flats! Lets gooooo
I can't stand how hard Overwatch content creators cope. (Let alone the larger community.)
The game is terrible guys, just accept it. Bogur is finally realizing what Seagull did half a decade ago.
But Seagull has played in that half decade.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 Not anything close to how he used to. Once upon a time Seagull was one of if not the best Overwatch player. Long, long ago.
@@minimalgrammar1276Yes you know it happens when you have 10k+ hours in the game to not not want to play it anymore. These guys hsve thousands of hours in the game and stream non stop for hours each day. OW could be the best game in the world and burnout would still hit eventually.
damn funny vid but the sound balance is really bad. bogur was like 10x louder than flats.
Y'all want 6v6 because it might help gameplay, I want 6v6 because my friend group is 6 people. We are not the same.
the game is so forgiving now because of the general community , skill isnt king anymore in ow
6v6 is just no build for overwatch, it can be a different mode for the casual players like me
If u guys move on, can I replace ya guys, havent streamed ow at all but still
Ngl I’d love to follow flats and bogur to marvel rivals. I’m so done with overwatch.
too bad theres a good chance disney pumps it full of p2w
@@itsOZone mtx will be purely cosmetics through credits, which can be earned in game
Bro never used that trans😭
you know what, I'm tired of hearing people bi*ch about 5v5 or 6v6 being better-- what if we just had BOTH optionally. One more mode that has 6 player layout enabled. And everyone who thinks it was sooooo bad can avoid it and everyone who thinks it was soooo good can play it all day every day w/e.
it is kinda the case i you are willing to play in arcade, but they have hot takes like removing role queue and things like thas so it never end !
I genuinely just wonder if Bogur is right and the OG streamers are just too burnt out and jaded by now. Which would not be surprising. Anyone would get burnt out doing the same thing for such a long time, especially in such a weird and hectic environment as OW (with all the scandals and ups-and-downs and external toxicity towards the game). Streamers are financially dependent on playing the game which would no doubt alter their view and enjoyement of it. And it isn't super shocking that many of them are experiencing the same feelings (or similar) as they were all doing the same thing more or less for a long time.
Maybe they just need a break from OW or some variety.
What if I create an account called XxTheEdgiestEdgerxX and will be forcing myself to stream ow2 almost every day just to prove that new players don't enjoy ow2 much too?
6v6 better
Ya'll should have actually committed to leaving when they cancelled PVP, at this point they saw thwy can get away with anything 😂
just remove the tank role already... I want the suffering to end
Overwatch 3 4v4 2 dps 2 support
Nah you gotta go the other direction and do tank role only fuck it we ball
Just add the 2nd tank back, it was the most moronic decision to remove 6v6 in the first place.
Meow
Counter play is good, hard counters is not
this game is such a brain dead rock paper scissors loop 24/7 and no matter nothing they change they cant even creep anywhere near the highest peaks of 6v6. there was no 5v5 era that was half as fun as peak overwatch. when tanks switching and support comps wasnt the entire deciding factor of every game. i ONLY have fun on DPS nowadays because i can feel some semblance of variety.
p.s IM SO FUCKING SICK OF SUZU.
M.R. is way more fun
Investigate 3/11.
if you hate the game, just don't play it
Here's a big fact nobody asked for 5v5 for the start. And people that support 5v5 can't even find a solution to fixing the game. and dont tell me that they can't fix 6v6 oh wait they reworked many tanks so tgeirs less shield. All they needed to do is rework sigma cuz he doesn't need 2 abilities that eat up projectiles. And everyone else will have to decrease their defense capabilities. Since theirs 2 tanks. They never reworked anyone in 6v6 or haven't tried to. Because of ow2 which is a massive failure. Ow2 had more time than ow1 cuz whenever they released sig who plays like a 5v5 tank ow devs stopped focusing on 6v6. Now look at ow2 it's a complete freaking mess and is getting trashed on by marvel rivals.