@@stevewarren3051 what would you do with the car then - take it to the inter city and torch it? What I think you fail to see here - the onboard diagnostic systems in these cars works well like 95% of the time and your average mechanic joe can hook up a scan tool and have a good idea of what to fix. This car definately falls into that other 5% where you need a genius like Bernie to sort out the mess. I found this channel after hearing praises from other folks who use similar tools and logic to diagnose the hard case scenarios.
Who knew you could have an intermittent problem that could happen exactly 50% of the time? Great job taking the extra time to learn the computer's strategy.
Yea, I’ve dealt with this before. The vacuum pump seizes up and pieces of the pump get jammed up and move the trigger wheel. Luckily my customer still had his powertrain warranty
I would think it would burst open if it did seize as those vacuum pumps have very thin aluminum housings. I ve rebuilt a couple and they have normal wear where it would make contact. Very basic pumps, the inlet air filter usually gives out and starts to leak from there as well and the main body seal just shrinks and leaks as well. Dealer had diagnosed a rear main and after I inspected it, I concluded that it was just the vacuum pump, dealer sees oil around the tranmission and automatically assumes rear main but the source was coming from the upper side. Dealer tried to sound fancy blaming that the reason the rear main blew was because of the breather valve malfunctioning but odd that that didn't include the replacement of that in the quote which would lead to the same issue in the future if it were true.
This is absolutely savage, you can see things on the scope traces so fast. An fantastic hour of education, brilliant Bernie. You are a serious teacher/mentor 🙏👍
Great video Bernie. Had a 2021 kia forte today with an exhaust cam trigger wheel that was 60 degrees off and was setting a p0016.. Intake over advanced. Vehicle started and ran fine. No power loss even on the highway. . was a great learning experience. Your video cleared some questions i had.. Thanks for all your experiences.
I still carry a flip phone. Stays charged for over a week and is small and compact. Carrying a big smartphone on myself isn’t too smart. Most people that have one are pretty unproductive. They walk around with their heads down all day.
I literally had one of these not too long ago. Same car and engine. Timing way off but in cylinder / intake and exhaust were on. Vacuum pump broke and another shop put a new one in but didn’t clean out the broken pieces and shifted the trigger wheel
Thanks very informative. Had a Chevy having this same starting problem after I changed a broken vacuum pump. Didn’t need a whole new camshaft just make sure matrix mark is at 12o’clock and “single tang” on the fluctuater facing 12o’clock.a bunch of different codes remained after clearing them and rough start remained. All you need to do is replace camshaft sensor and your good to go
Hey there Mr Thompson.. good to see you again. So, they had to replace both cams but couldn't repair/replace the target wheels? Maybe they're all one piece.. hmm. I really look forward to watching your videos on these repairs. Take care and GB..
I definitely need to see this more than one time. Without a reference of which signal needs to be where for a quick, normal start, I'm lost! Where is the reference information located to show normal operation? Are there charts or print info? And where?
As always Bernie for the win!!! Thanks for filming these videos and showing us the Scope Cannon, not the Parts Cannon!!!! Do you sell scope training video's?
The cam pulses were not missing, did not break down, physical cam timing was good. You did not say exactly what was bad about the part that was replaced? Did it have the wrong signal profile? Thanks
Look closely at 37:37, the cam lobes are oriented the same way on both cams but you can see that the trigger wheel on the old cam looks to be ~90 degrees out vs the new. (~180 relative to the crank...cams run at .5 speed on 4 strokes). What I'm not getting is mechanically how is it off? It looks like the cam is multiple pieces and the trigger end is unthreading????
Sir. On a Ford f250 1976. Showed on pine hallow auto Diagnostics. After engine rebuilt by speed shop. Would the engine run crappy because the compression was increased by 26psi? Or would there be other issues?
Thanks again for your amazing work and I want to ask you sir, if have no codes how can find the problem, if coming from air, voltage problem or fuel circuit? Thanks and a million videos more
Vacuum pump seizes up and breaks rear of camshaft where sensor mounts. If you don’t have a million dollar scope or hours to hook up remove the exhaust cam sensor and look down the hole for damage or metal particles, a bore scope helps too. There should be a TSB for this it is a common issue with Malibu’s with the 1.5 L engine
@@briandeeney9329 yes it's a common issue, but what he did was reverse engineer the strategy this car uses when it's missing input signals. And shared it with us. All while encountering this vehicle and problem for the first time. How many timing jobs you think have been sold before they realized that this was a common issue?
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics that would be the time to fire the parts cannon and sell the timing job plus phasers. I won’t be messing around and do everything while I’m there. Bernie seemed to have done his homework and have looked at a known good cam crank correlation on this particular car. That was the key on this diag.
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics In no way am I knocking Bernie, he is a wizard as are you Eric O, Ivan New level Auto. Not all shops have his knowledge or tools but most should be able to do a TSB search and some basic troubleshooting. Plus I don’t know if he realized he never explained why the camshaft was replaced, trust me diagnosing the issue and recording it at the same time boggles my mind. I’ve been a GM tech for 30 years so this video was right up my alley 😂. I have the utmost respect for all of you and love your videos. Keep em coming!!
Before looking at timing, install the original ECM and see if the BARO starts working, then clear codes and see if P0014 reoccurs. If so, then see if you can access real-time data PIDs that describe if the ECM is in limp-home mode (default mode). It would be helpful if you could explain how the variable cam timing actually works, and then review a wiring diagram to show module inputs and outputs. With dual mode variable cam timing it make sense that one cam is referenced, and then the phasor(s) outputs (target) provides feedback on the actual position of each cam. So, essentially the cam position is commanded by the ECM and then the actual position is confirmed with target feedback.
Mr. Bernie you said outputs are 180° off when the engine does not start. Should'n it be 360°? Nice video btw, u can't get this kind of info here un Venezuela.
@@nestormarchan2447 He said 180° the cam outputs, that the camshaft timing mark is of the marks,180 degrees . I tell you an example to understand what did he said. When you are dealing with a car,that the timing belt (or chain)has jumped, how you check it,you set the crankshaft on the mark, and you check how many teeth (or degrees) the camshaft are of.if the cam is on the timing mark, engine timing is OK.if the camshaft is of the marks , any degrees, is of,out of timing, but if it's on the timing mark the cam(that means the timing is ok), and you turn the cam 360°, it's going to be again, exactly on the timing mark. I hope you understand with that example. I understand what you said with the cycle, it's the same, but when you dealing with timing, that's how you compare the marks with the timing. set the crankshaft on the mark, and watch the cam teeth. you don't talk with the full cycle. even how you write, if you said 360° of the full cycle , out of the 720° full cycle, is 50% change. 360 is half of 720.but, it's to complicated to, with no reason.
I had this eng lose a vacuum pump (seized) driven on the back of the exhaust cam and twisted the cam or spun the pressed on reluctor. Look at the old vs new and see the scars and damage to the end. Off to the auction. Lol
Vacuum pump seized up and breaks the end of the camshaft and breaks or shifts the reluctor on cam. There is a TSB for this for GM techs not sure if available to independent shops yet. Very common on 1.5L Malibu motor. Remove exhaust cam sensor and look in the hole for damage or metal debris. A bore scope can be useful too.
@@geoepi321975 turbo cars have vacuum pump to create vacuum for BRAKE BOOSTER when the turbo is making pressure in the intake manifold and vacuum to brake booster is absent.
So the strategy if the intake cam signal is missing, is to use the exhaust cam signal to fire the coil at the right angle. If the exhaust cam signal is missing, it will use the intake cam signal but it will be a delayed start. If both signals are missing the PCM has a 50/50 chance of firing the coil at the right angle. If the exhaust cam signal is out of time but the signal is still being generated, the PCM will use a 50/50 chance to fire the coil at the right angle? It's really interesting this type of information can't be found in service data. That's one of the things that always seems like a hidden secret the strategy any ECU uses when inputs are wrong or missing. If we had this type of information it would make it a lot easier to understand how the system operates in different failure modes. Your video unlocked one of those secrets.
No idea what he is talking about but love his passion.
He talks like that due to many years of experience that newbies make no sense out of it 😅
Advanced drivability can be challenging to a lot of techs don't worry this is advanced O scope schooling bernie is one of the best
He talks for 30 minutes and says he still doesn't know why the car won't start. I sure as hell wouldn't hire him.
@@stevewarren3051 what would you do with the car then - take it to the inter city and torch it? What I think you fail to see here - the onboard diagnostic systems in these cars works well like 95% of the time and your average mechanic joe can hook up a scan tool and have a good idea of what to fix. This car definately falls into that other 5% where you need a genius like Bernie to sort out the mess. I found this channel after hearing praises from other folks who use similar tools and logic to diagnose the hard case scenarios.
@@nwalker8866 Yeah, torching it sounds about right, if you take to this guy to fix it.
Who knew you could have an intermittent problem that could happen exactly 50% of the time? Great job taking the extra time to learn the computer's strategy.
I can watch these videos all day
Yea, I’ve dealt with this before. The vacuum pump seizes up and pieces of the pump get jammed up and move the trigger wheel. Luckily my customer still had his powertrain warranty
I would think it would burst open if it did seize as those vacuum pumps have very thin aluminum housings. I ve rebuilt a couple and they have normal wear where it would make contact. Very basic pumps, the inlet air filter usually gives out and starts to leak from there as well and the main body seal just shrinks and leaks as well. Dealer had diagnosed a rear main and after I inspected it, I concluded that it was just the vacuum pump, dealer sees oil around the tranmission and automatically assumes rear main but the source was coming from the upper side. Dealer tried to sound fancy blaming that the reason the rear main blew was because of the breather valve malfunctioning but odd that that didn't include the replacement of that in the quote which would lead to the same issue in the future if it were true.
Punk 😂
Oh dear, my head just exploded! I wish that I had got into diagnostics when I was younger :)
At what age are we too old to learn new tricks??
NEVER, And I'm almost 84 years old and I've never stopped learning and I keep repairing my cars Until the end. Greetings.
This is absolutely savage, you can see things on the scope traces so fast. An fantastic hour of education, brilliant Bernie. You are a serious teacher/mentor 🙏👍
Great and amazing Diagnosis Mr Barnie Thomson. please, keep teaching us your virtues and skills. receive the best of greetings from Tijuana 🇲🇽 Mexico
Mr Thompson is probably the best diagnostician in the world. We can all learn and improve by emulating his methods.
Bernie thank you for returning to the car to get us the aftershot! And as always, thank you soo very much for your teachings. God bless.
How do these guys get so smart in such a short LIFETIME? Thanks Bernie I got a lot of learning ahead but it is the future.
Ive never seen someone diagnose like you. I wish I was your student.
Great video Bernie.
Had a 2021 kia forte today with an exhaust cam trigger wheel that was 60 degrees off and was setting a p0016.. Intake over advanced. Vehicle started and ran fine. No power loss even on the highway. . was a great learning experience. Your video cleared some questions i had.. Thanks for all your experiences.
Excellent video...thanks for teaching us!
Everytime I watch your video's I learn something valuable.
great analysis ,but.. why you didn"t explain the real reason of the trigger wheel spun on the cam that is the true problem!
YOUR LOGIC IS # 1. THANKS
MAY GOD BLESS YOU.
As OBD2 savvy as this guy is, he still carries a flip phone. Good job, by the way.
I still carry a flip phone. Stays charged for over a week and is small and compact. Carrying a big smartphone on myself isn’t too smart. Most people that have one are pretty unproductive. They walk around with their heads down all day.
I literally had one of these not too long ago. Same car and engine. Timing way off but in cylinder / intake and exhaust were on. Vacuum pump broke and another shop put a new one in but didn’t clean out the broken pieces and shifted the trigger wheel
When Bernie says "thats crazy" a few times.... Coming from him ,You have to believe the guy!
A head full of known good waveforms, unbelievable
I love the triple transducer approach!
Thanks very informative. Had a Chevy having this same starting problem after I changed a broken vacuum pump. Didn’t need a whole new camshaft just make sure matrix mark is at 12o’clock and “single tang” on the fluctuater facing 12o’clock.a bunch of different codes remained after clearing them and rough start remained. All you need to do is replace camshaft sensor and your good to go
Hey there Mr Thompson.. good to see you again. So, they had to replace both cams but couldn't repair/replace the target wheels? Maybe they're all one piece.. hmm. I really look forward to watching your videos on these repairs. Take care and GB..
Wow, really good and detailed information here. Thank you for all that you are sharing with us. May God bless you.
Great video Bernie i'm still learning a lot from you especially on GDI engines. great work
He talk we listen we learn
As always Bernie, great learning experience, thank you !
Kool analysis as usual Mr Bernie, thank you
That is awesome, thank you for the extra testing....always appreciated
Did we ever figure out why the baro was off in the beginning? Just curious if that was part of the default strategy
I definitely need to see this more than one time. Without a reference of which signal needs to be where for a quick, normal start, I'm lost!
Where is the reference information located to show normal operation?
Are there charts or print info? And where?
Thanks bernie, very very good diag.all good vor you.
As always Bernie for the win!!! Thanks for filming these videos and showing us the Scope Cannon, not the Parts Cannon!!!! Do you sell scope training video's?
Did a vacuum pump fail?
The cam pulses were not missing, did not break down, physical cam timing was good. You did not say exactly what was bad about the part that was replaced? Did it have the wrong signal profile? Thanks
Great video Bernie . Thanks for sharing the whole process .
What did the trigger look like on the exhaust can? Great vids!!
Check the desired, vs actual cam degrees and the variance should be visual on the scanner data
That is pretty cool, you are the best without a doubt. Thanks for sharing u experience and teaching us
Look closely at 37:37, the cam lobes are oriented the same way on both cams but you can see that the trigger wheel on the old cam looks to be ~90 degrees out vs the new. (~180 relative to the crank...cams run at .5 speed on 4 strokes). What I'm not getting is mechanically how is it off? It looks like the cam is multiple pieces and the trigger end is unthreading????
I was just thinking that they used the same cams for both intake and exhaust, some people think they are the same because they look similar 😅
Another Great Vid as Always Very Interesting Thanks for sharing !!!!!!!!!
Sir. On a Ford f250 1976. Showed on pine hallow auto Diagnostics. After engine rebuilt by speed shop. Would the engine run crappy because the compression was increased by 26psi? Or would there be other issues?
Thanks again for your amazing work and I want to ask you sir, if have no codes how can find the problem, if coming from air, voltage problem or fuel circuit? Thanks and a million videos more
It would be nice if you stated what engine and what mileage is on the vehicle.The 3.6 v6 engines were known to have timing issues
Thanks for sharing Bernie... Cheers.
I love his intro 😂😂🙌🏻
What exactly was going on that a new cam needed to be installed?
Vacuum pump seizes up and breaks rear of camshaft where sensor mounts. If you don’t have a million dollar scope or hours to hook up remove the exhaust cam sensor and look down the hole for damage or metal particles, a bore scope helps too. There should be a TSB for this it is a common issue with Malibu’s with the 1.5 L engine
@@briandeeney9329 yes it's a common issue, but what he did was reverse engineer the strategy this car uses when it's missing input signals.
And shared it with us. All while encountering this vehicle and problem for the first time.
How many timing jobs you think have been sold before they realized that this was a common issue?
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics that would be the time to fire the parts cannon and sell the timing job plus phasers. I won’t be messing around and do everything while I’m there. Bernie seemed to have done his homework and have looked at a known good cam crank correlation on this particular car. That was the key on this diag.
@@SuperMarioDiagnostics In no way am I knocking Bernie, he is a wizard as are you Eric O, Ivan New level Auto. Not all shops have his knowledge or tools but most should be able to do a TSB search and some basic troubleshooting. Plus I don’t know if he realized he never explained why the camshaft was replaced, trust me diagnosing the issue and recording it at the same time boggles my mind. I’ve been a GM tech for 30 years so this video was right up my alley 😂. I have the utmost respect for all of you and love your videos. Keep em coming!!
@@briandeeney9329 weeds out the parts changers. Technicians know why, as it was thoroughly explained.
Shops should invest in scopes, imo
Before looking at timing, install the original ECM and see if the BARO starts working, then clear codes and see if P0014 reoccurs. If so, then see if you can access real-time data PIDs that describe if the ECM is in limp-home mode (default mode).
It would be helpful if you could explain how the variable cam timing actually works, and then review a wiring diagram to show module inputs and outputs. With dual mode variable cam timing it make sense that one cam is referenced, and then the phasor(s) outputs (target) provides feedback on the actual position of each cam. So, essentially the cam position is commanded by the ECM and then the actual position is confirmed with target feedback.
So when you say " GROUND THE SENSOR". Do you mean the signal wire??
This was very interesting thanks Bernie
Please I need someone to explain how does the cams affect the MAF sensor reading.
How many miles in that car Bernie 🤔 they put a new cam did they put a new timing chain 🤔
What sensor fixed the problem having the same problem
Hi ats, does your escope has a built in known good waveform such as cam crank or in cylinder waveforms like the pico would have?
Thx for the information
So much to learn...
Mr. Bernie you said outputs are 180° off when the engine does not start. Should'n it be 360°? Nice video btw, u can't get this kind of info here un Venezuela.
If was 360 degrees, would be on the same position, so no problem at all .
@@Lambros_Stefaneas a full cycle is 720°(2 cranks rorations). So a 50/50 chance should be 360° off from each other.🤔
@@nestormarchan2447 He said 180° the cam outputs, that the camshaft timing mark is of the marks,180 degrees . I tell you an example to understand what did he said.
When you are dealing with a car,that the timing belt (or chain)has jumped, how you check it,you set the crankshaft on the mark, and you check how many teeth (or degrees) the camshaft are of.if the cam is on the timing mark, engine timing is OK.if the camshaft is of the marks , any degrees, is of,out of timing, but if it's on the timing mark the cam(that means the timing is ok), and you turn the cam 360°, it's going to be again, exactly on the timing mark. I hope you understand with that example.
I understand what you said with the cycle, it's the same, but when you dealing with timing, that's how you compare the marks with the timing. set the crankshaft on the mark, and watch the cam teeth. you don't talk with the full cycle. even how you write, if you said 360° of the full cycle , out of the 720° full cycle, is 50% change. 360 is half of 720.but, it's to complicated to, with no reason.
I had this eng lose a vacuum pump (seized) driven on the back of the exhaust cam and twisted the cam or spun the pressed on reluctor. Look at the old vs new and see the scars and damage to the end. Off to the auction. Lol
Thank you sir
Nice Work
Ok i just replaced the vaccum pump and it still has this starting issue.
great video thank
Had one the other day too same thing
I can't get these same results in my shop. I have no 8 channel scope. Lmao. I will tell the owner to get one. Lmfao
10+ for video
It doesn’t got gas in it
BERNIE WHY DID THEY CHANGE CAM
Vacuum pump seized up and breaks the end of the camshaft and breaks or shifts the reluctor on cam. There is a TSB for this for GM techs not sure if available to independent shops yet. Very common on 1.5L Malibu motor. Remove exhaust cam sensor and look in the hole for damage or metal debris. A bore scope can be useful too.
@@briandeeney9329 Thank u for your comment. U answered my question!!
@@briandeeney9329 what vacuum pump you mean
@@geoepi321975 turbo cars have vacuum pump to create vacuum for BRAKE BOOSTER when the turbo is making pressure in the intake manifold and vacuum to brake booster is absent.
So the strategy if the intake cam signal is missing, is to use the exhaust cam signal to fire the coil at the right angle. If the exhaust cam signal is missing, it will use the intake cam signal but it will be a delayed start. If both signals are missing the PCM has a 50/50 chance of firing the coil at the right angle. If the exhaust cam signal is out of time but the signal is still being generated, the PCM will use a 50/50 chance to fire the coil at the right angle? It's really interesting this type of information can't be found in service data. That's one of the things that always seems like a hidden secret the strategy any ECU uses when inputs are wrong or missing. If we had this type of information it would make it a lot easier to understand how the system operates in different failure modes. Your video unlocked one of those secrets.
Brain hurt.
This is a joke. 2017 and already these craps. Should be manufacturing warranty for at lease 100k miles. It's way 2 silly
How do you know it doesn't have 100k on it he did not state the milage or type of engine
Duuuh ?