Corey Trimble: Oneness Pentecostals, Excommunication, Politics, Endtimes | Steven Solomon Podcast #7
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
- Corey is the pastor of Experience Community Church in Murfreesboro, TN, a congregation that has grown to over 9,000 members since its founding 15 years ago. In their discussion, Corey and Steven explore their similar experiences growing up in Oneness Pentecostal churches, the challenges of losing family and friends after leaving the denomination, the topic of losing salvation, the implications of end times and artificial intelligence, and the intersection of Christianity and politics. For more information about Corey and Experience Community Church, visit experiencecc.com.
Pastor Corey changed my life and the way I see life by teaching the word of Christ with his honest and humble way. Without mincing words, with his direct and frank way.
Corey Trimble and his church have changed my life. This church has opened my eyes to the truth and I have learned so much. He is the best pastor! So humble and genuine.
I'm a Oneness Pentecostal and I don't see anything wrong with this conversation. They are sharing their experiences and being honest about what they saw in the Oneness Apostolic Church. I admire the fact that you guys are open to sharing both the good and the bad of your experiences. I'm glad that this conversation has taken place because like it or not, the UPCI has been going through a great deal of exposure lately. Many are leaving due to doctrinal differences, spiritual abuse, sexual abuse by leadership, etc. Although I still attend a Oneness Church, we should not bash these two guys because they tell us the truth about the Oneness Apostolic movement. If you are UPCI and you are offended by this discussion, then you are not willing to let the truth have it's day. Don't criticize these two for sharing their experiences, they are bold enough to hold the UPCI accountable. Thank you guys for being so vulnerable and transparent. All Oneness Apostolics are not bad people, there are very sincere people as well. But thank you for talking about this. God bless.
Thank you.
Every movement has its bad apples, and Oneness Pentecostalism (UPCI, ALJC, etc.) is no exception. But conflating bad apples with bad doctrine or assuming that the bad apples are indicative of bad doctrine is a mistake many people make. There are all kinds of abuses in trinitarian churches, but we don't find many of these critics of Oneness abuses criticizing trinitarian _doctrine_ over it.
The main problem former Pentecostals have with Oneness continues to be what Christ explained in Matthew 11:27 & Luke 10:22. Nobody can know who the Father or Son is outside the Son's revelation. There's a world of difference between one's head knowledge of Oneness and the Son's revelation via the Scriptures and natural theology (Rom. 1:20). Interestingly, most Trinitarians live in the same kind of bubble they accuse Oneness believers of living in. They've never seriously examined the logical contradictions inherent in trinitarian doctrine. We have three major categories of trinitarian thought (Latin, Eastern & Social) and some 13 variations within those three groups that contemporary groups teach among the various denominations. And none of them, excepting versions indistinct from Oneness like Swedenborgianism avoid the aforesaid contradictions. All versions of the Trinity either logically extend to tritheism or divine composition. The former is metaphysically impossible, whereas the latter is effective atheism. And given its contradictions, a trinitarian template doesn't even qualify as a hypothesis for biblical interpretation. One may as well argue that square circles are biblical.
At bottom, I agree that we shouldn't shrink from discussions relating to moral or criminal abuse. At the same time, we should never confuse that with biblical doctrine.
Proper exegesis of Trinitarian doctrine is not Tritheism. You are ignorant(unlearned) in historical Christianity. Really not trying to be offensive, but I know it will most likely be taken that way. Now, going back to Oneness Pentecostals, I am amazed how many "preachers" and "worship leaders" are effeminate. May just be my observation and may not be indicative of everywhere.........
My God! Who are you?! 😂 I spent 30 years in the UPCI, I’m 35. I’m super vocal on my social media about some of my experiences and opinions and NO ONE in my life responds like this, and I have 1000’s of Oneness connections. Thank you! You’re an anomaly!
@@Unknown.servant You say:
_Proper exegesis of Trinitarian doctrine is not Tritheism._
That depends upon which version of the Trinity is being espoused. There are three major divisions in trinitarian theology (Latin, Eastern & Social) with some 13 variations under said divisions collectively. Within the Social version and some Eastern versions, there are trinitarian teachers who teach that there is one divine essence with three instantiations of said essence. That is directly tritheistic (three instantiations of the apple essence yield three apples; three instantiations of the human essence yield three humans; and three instantiations of the God essence yield three Gods). Latin Trinitarians (who comprise the majority of Trinitarians) do not teach that God is an abstract essence. Rather, they teach that God's existence is His essence and is, thus, the numerically singular living God (doctrine of divine simplicity (DDS)). Those Trinitarians are not tritheists. Instead, they unintentionally affirm composition in the Godhead, which results in effective atheism.
All composites are collections of parts which render them logically posterior to their components. The components serve to actuate, explain and conserve the composites, even if a composite is eternal. Thus, if God were composite, He would be actuated by something less than He is in order to be what He is. Since something cannot be more basic or fundamental than God, God cannot be composite. As Oneness Pentecostals, we see composition, to one degree or another, across all levels of Trinitarianism and consider it the Achilles' heel thereof.
So, even if your version isn't directly tritheistic, it cannot avoid affirming some level of composition in God. And since that effectively un-Gods God, it is false on its face.
My wife and I were members of The Experience Community for 5 years until we moved out of state. Cory is as solid as they come! Loved our season at The Experience!
I just discovered him and I’m a fan. I would totally want to sit under him. It’s rare to find pastors with a humility and genuineness. Thankfully, my pastor has the same traits. Funny, he’s also a Calvary chapel pastor.
I’ve been going to the experience about 8 years now. Cory has been such a blessing to me and my family. Love you, Cory!
By their fruits you will know them. Thank you for giving me hope. I left over 20 years ago and threw it all away. I am only now questioning everything. Back to basics. Back to the nature of God.
As someone who grew up in this bubble also I am so relieved to listen to this conversation.
Thanks for watching - glad you enjoyed it
@@tistheSteven Every movement has its bad apples, and Oneness Pentecostalism (UPCI, ALJC, etc.) is no exception. But conflating bad apples with bad doctrine or assuming that the bad apples are indicative of bad doctrine is a mistake many people make. There are all kinds of abuses in trinitarian churches, but we don't find many of these critics of Oneness abuses criticizing trinitarian doctrine over it.
The main problem former Pentecostals have with Oneness continues to be what Christ explained in Matthew 11:27 & Luke 10:22. Nobody can know who the Father or Son is outside the Son's revelation. There's a world of difference between one's head knowledge of Oneness and the Son's revelation via the Scriptures and natural theology (Rom. 1:27). Interestingly, most Trinitarians live in the same kind of bubble they accuse Oneness believers of living in. They've never seriously examined the logical contradictions inherent in trinitarian doctrine. We have three major categories of trinitarian thought (Latin, Eastern & Social) and some 13 variations within those three groups that contemporary groups teach among the various denominations. And none of them, excepting versions indistinct from Oneness like Swedenborgianism avoid the aforesaid contradictions. All versions of the Trinity either logically extend to tritheism or divine composition. The former is metaphysically impossible, whereas the latter is effective atheism. And given its contradictions, a trinitarian template doesn't even qualify as a hypothesis for biblical interpretation. One may as well argue that square circles are biblical.
At bottom, I agree that we shouldn't shrink from discussions relating to moral or criminal abuse. At the same time, we should never confuse that with biblical doctrine.
There's more than one “bubble” out there. Trinitarians live in the same kind of bubble they accuse Oneness believers of living in. It's very odd that those “converting” to Trinitarianism do not scrutinize that view as rigorously as they claim to have scrutinized the Oneness of God. If they had, they would have discovered that the doctrine of the Trinity, in all its forms, is logically at odds with itself, which renders it false on its face.
As one of Cory’s former youth group students. He is a great person. Thank you Cory, for having the difficult conversations. I was raised in it. Every man in my family is a pastor or a preacher. I have been able to break free. I’m blessed that my family is very loving and accepting of me. It breaks my heart that people are losing their families over just being true to themselves. But I have seen it first hand, it is a very real thing, especially for people in leadership roles that leave.
people leaving prove little but their own need to leave.
Luke 12:51-53 (NET) Do you think I have come to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! 52 For from now on there will be five in one household divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”
If you "broke free," it's because you wanted to get out without being properly informed (because Oneness is the truth). The doctrine of the Trinity (DT), in all its forms (there are some 13 contemporary versions of it), entails logical contradictions which render it false on its face. Every iteration of the DT either logically extends to tritheism or it is forced to affirm composition in the Godhead. If the latter, then you have effective atheism because all composites are caused and dependent. Every composite is actuated, explained and conserved in being by its parts (defined as something less than the whole, without which the whole would be different from what it is). And that makes the composite (in this case, God) logically posterior to its components.
Young lady, you jumped out of the frying pan into the fire. In my experience (over 40 years in Oneness Pentecost), the vast majority of young people who "break free" are not theologically astute enough to discuss the matter intelligently. They are rather motivated by a desire to look like and live like the rest of the world while going to heaven too. That may not be the case with you. So, if you're really sincere, then please explain how you avoid either tritheism or composition.
Be careful what you say, Jesus, he gives you revelation, of truth , Paul was perching to people who were already saved in acts, chapter 2
@@StevenSteward-cy9rp You write:
_Be careful what you say, Jesus, he gives you revelation, of truth , Paul was perching to people who were already saved in acts, chapter 2_
Paul wasn't preaching in Acts 2, Peter was. Paul wasn't converted to Christianity until much later.
That's my pastor!!! Such an amazing guy. Great discussion.
I really appreciated the conversation. Cory sounds like a genuine guy. The interviewer seemed like he wanted to spew hate at every chance he got. this was a display of two men with smilar experiences but with much different motives and results. We have a choice in life to use the hurt for good or wallow in it.
I’ve been going to ECC for almost 2 years and at 60 years old this is the first Church that actually teaches directly from the Bible and explains it! I have been to many Churches in my lifetime, since I found ECC I look forward to going to Church every Sunday! Thank you and God Bless Cory and all the people that make this Church such a Blessing!
Thank you for sharing your story. I have a UPCI background as well and I appreciate your kindness in your conversation about them. I disagree with their doctrine and view of "holiness" but they do have sincere people.
Wow I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much for this intimde interview with Pastor Corey.
Thank You for sharing. I have a very similar story to yalls. Grew up UPC and while I am thankful for it, I wouldn't ever go back. Many of us were "saved" by being dangled over hell. Fear is what pushed us into relationship with God. However, fear could not hold us in it. That is why we see so many of the sons and daughters walk away and never return. John said it best, God is Love, and perfect love cast out fear, bc fear carries with it the threat of punishment. Also why Jesus preached against Religion so strongly. Shoot the prodigal son story is a direct rebuttal to Deuteronomy 21and the rebellious son. Unfortunately I have found very few people who can sit and have a discussion about these things. Hence why repentance is so hard, bc after all it doesn't mean to turn and go in the opposite direction, it means to change the way you think. Keep up the great work Steven
I Love my Pastor Corey! He preaches TRUTH!
A great interviewee and interviewer. Good questions, not avoiding the hard questions, and great answers.
I’m a oneness Pentecostal. I consider myself to be Apostolic in doctrine AND in deed, but the United Pentecostal Church, which is an organization that’s only been around since 1945, has a VERY toxic, works based church culture.
Not all, but the majority of them don’t really care about the broken, the “least of these”. They want the already “good” ones.
They’re also more worried about how they dress than they are about the fact that they’re not really doing what we’ve been commanded to do as believers, and that’s to win the lost.
The manipulation and control of the organization as a whole is very disheartening. There’s a lot of good people in it who I truly believe know the Lord, but that organization is not the church of the Lord Jesus Christ.
God is WAY bigger than the UPC.
Thank you gentlemen for having this raw and candid discussion.
I beg to differ. Perhaps you're older than me and have seen more of the UPCI but I've been raised in this organization and that's simply not the case (in my area at least). I would agree that God is MUCH bigger than the UPCI though
I was raised in and belonged to the UPCI for over 36 years. My dad was a UPCI pastor. My dad was genuine and he loved Jesus but the upci organization does put their focus more on what somebody looks like I never followed the standards completely I wore dresses didn't cut my hair didn't wear jewelry but I wore a little bit of mascara and I would darken my eyebrows because I don't have any and my dad was threatened to lose his license if I didn't line up to the standards I was always treated like I wasn't saved I was an outcast people would tell me you're almost there now you just got to get rid of your makeup and they teach so much unbiblical things they pass off their man-made doctrines and their bylaws as scriptural truths obviously I left the upci I've studied the Bible for myself in realized a lot of the things they taught are not biblical
One of the best podcast interviews I’ve heard in a while! Thanks for speaking Biblical Truth. People are hungry for Biblical Truth and authenticity. Thank you!
That's very kind of you - I appreciate you watching and leaving a comment.
Raised UPCI and everything you are saying is correct. When I actually read the Bible I couldn’t believe how different the doctrines were from what I was reading. My pastor was the head over the state organization and I still to this day can’t tell if he taught these things because of his own confusion, or if he did it because of being high on power and greed. The Trinity was clearly what the Bible was teaching, and I had to leave. I am so thankful that the Lord brought me out! I was at the UPCI church one night and I had been seriously struggling with what I was learning from the Bible and the Lord told me I was leaving and the he would make the plan, and he surely did! Hallelujah!
This is laughable. The Oneness of God is the most fundamental doctrine of the entire Bible.
@@geraldritchey4822your wrong
@@wnctg Prove it.
I agree.......oneness of God speaks of unity in Hebrew.
@@Unknown.servant You write:
_...oneness of God speaks of unity in Hebrew._
You clearly don't speak Hebrew. I know native-speaking Jews, and they would certainly take issue with that. For example, the Hebrew word _echad_ (one) is simply the equivalent of our word "one." It can mean numerical singularity (as it is overwhelmingly in the Old Testament - over 900 times), or it can refer to a composite unity (e.g., Adam and Eve being one (united) flesh). However, a composite unity is ruled out for God because all composites are caused and dependent. You cannot have a union without parts, and parts are, by definition, less than the whole. If the whole is God, then God's components are definitionally less than God and must unite with other parts less than God in order for God to exist. This is what most Trinitarians call "partialism," which was condemned by them as heresy at the Fourth Lateran Council. A "united" Godhead is effective atheism.
Love this, thank you for sharing. So much truth that resonates in my spirit.
What a wonderful interview. I would love to visit ECC. Good job Stephen.
I am glad i found this. You explained this cult better than anybody i have heard. Im reasearching it trying to figure my mother out. She has joined this type church and has shunned me and my sister as we are baptist
When I left the UPC, it was with a lot of fear and trembling, but I knew God was leading me so I said to him how do I think about the Trinity? How do I understand that and he answered me so clearly in my heart, and he said with a smile and a chuckle… And a wink to me he said
No one understands it it's OK
And I knew that he meant I was safe. I didn't have to be afraid leaving the UPC and that he was with me and I also knew that meant that they (the UPC people) didn't understand it either. I was free to love God and let other people in to the kingdom. I didn't have to be afraid to wear pants. Or trim my hair or wear a little make up a little jewelry no lightning struck me and now I walked with him for 41 years and he's dearer to me than ever.
I've seen a lot of carnal people like you, tragically.
No voice from God will speak contrary to His word or natural revelation. The doctrine of the Trinity isn't a matter beyond human understanding; it is logically contradictory and is, thus, false by definition. No serious theologian claims to know everything about God. A trinitarian apologist attempted to avoid his logical contradictions by accusing me of claiming to know everything about the infinite God. I replied that I've never claimed to know what God is beyond the limit of human understanding. What we rather do is examine what people claim about God, and when we examine the doctrine of the Trinity (DT), we see that it is false because its affirmations entail their denials (it logically self-destructs).
@@davidcoleman5860that's rich if you are a oneness Pentecostal 😂😂😂that doctrine is "almost" nothing but a logical contradiction
@@Unknown.servant You write:
_that's rich if you are a oneness Pentecostal that doctrine is "almost" nothing but a logical contradiction_
Then let's hear your argument. I can prove what I say with respect to the Trinity, but I'll first have to know what version of the Trinity you espouse, and please be precise. As to Oneness, recall that a logical contradiction isn't something that's necessarily false, including its being unscriptural. A logical contradiction is juxtaposing a statement with its denial. Disagreeing with Oneness or believing it to be unscriptural does not make it a _logical_ contradiction. I've seen attempts from professors to prove a logical contradiction, but they've all been unsuccessful. But, who knows? You might be able to do what they cannot. So, let's hear your argument.
@@Unknown.servant I also see that you attempted to interact with me elsewhere. I'm still waiting for your reply to my preliminary argument.
I heard Jonathan Haidt on Andrew Huberman’s podcast. He is brilliant. I was struggling terribly. I immediately bought his book “The Coddling of the American Mind.” I will definitely be reading The Anxious Generation next! New member at The Experience Church and I know this is exactly where God wants me. 🙏🏻
We are so thankful for how God is working through Corey’s testimony. Such a blessing to us, our church, and our community.
I got caught up in a separate sect of Christianity that turned out to be a cult. Not super familiar with the Pentecostal churches, but the bubble sounds a little similar
Thanks for watching - it’s easy to get caught up in a bubble, that’s for sure
Thanks for letting me be a fly on the wall. Please don't swat me. LOL. Seriously, it has been a pleasure just being able to listen and feel like a guest during y'alls conversation. Yes, a journey of working out our own salvation along the way. Thank you both again.
Great interview! What a grace filled dialog about the UPCI, because I'm sure there was a lot more tea that could have been spilled there. Great balance, restraint, and love shown to your pasts.
Really well done interview; I didn’t hear any UPC bashing. Thank you for sharing.
Wonderful interview of a wholehearted person.
Excellent interview. I feel you both on your experiences regarding the UPC. On politics, large churches are going to be sucked into it whether they like it or not and should be prepared for the inevitable. America has been given over to some very strong delusions that are reshaping this country and churches will have to take a stand or go woke.
I enjoyed the conversation! Corey’s experience so similarly mirrors our own. I am very thankful my husband and I found Calvary Chapel Trussville, after leaving our former church, almost 2 years ago.
Calvary Chapel had a big impact on Corey as well. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Is this Juanita landrum.
I miss you
Is this Juanita landrum? I miss you🥲
You taught me Sunday school. You taught me about the oneness of God and now you’ve abandoned me??? Nooooooo. I can’t follow you any longer my leader
Cory is great. Loved this podcast episode!
My brother has joined the Oneness church and has completely changed. He’s now very religious harsh critical and absolutely no fun. He used to be a fun happy guy now most of his family are steering clear as he’s so judgemental towards anyone that doesn’t believe like he does. I’ve been a Christian for 45 yrs while he was running off with women drinking up large etc but to him now I’m worthless. It’s so cruel
I sorry this happened to you.
I joined the UPC at a very vulnurable age of 14. I had lots of questions but was told to not ask questions but to do what i was told. I must say i was never hurt worse then what i was in the church. YES.....the dress code for women was unreal. I know many women in the church that had very dark souls...GOD looks on the heart. The outward appearance can be very deceiving.....i came out many years ago and it was the smartest decision i have ever made. God has showed me so many things since. Way too much outward and not enough of looking within. The truth will set you free...
I’m trinitarian Pentecostal which is called Living Waters Church of God. I really love our church
my pastor!
I recently started attending a Pentecostal church and I’ve been conflicted over the speaking in tongues gift. They insist that I haven’t received the Holy Ghost until I’ve spoken in tongues and it makes me feel like less of a Christian and peer pressured to do this.
I would love to talk to you about a woman's story growing up in UPC I lived in California
We are first and foremost Christ-Followers (Christians). Any church or organization that prioritizes anything else before that (whether it be approved doctrine, denominational name, approved “works,” preferred political affiliations… etc.) rest assured you are dealing with legalism. Human or self-effort at its core is inherently legalistic, and therefore the antithesis of Christianity.
I hope and pray the Lord frees all those stuck in legalistic organizations, whatever the denomination is. I’m thankful He did for these two fine gentlemen, and know He can and will do it for others.
love hearing the TRUTH.. its refreshing.
Glad you enjoyed this - thanks for watching
Love this conversation. That religious stuff is crazy.
Act 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 8:16 (For the Spirit had not yet come upon any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 10:48 So he gave orders to have them baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for several days.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus,
Act 22:16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized, and have your sins washed away, calling on his name.’
I would suggest you study Romans.
@@lisawilson1453 The Romans were saved by obeying Acts 2:38. Romans 6:3-5 and Romans 8:9 prove it. There is no recorded instance in the book of Acts, which is the only book that records actual salvation conversions, where anyone was saved by believing alone.
@@lisawilson1453the epistles were written to believers not to sinners. The book of Acts is the about the journey of what the apostles were taught by Jesus directly. They were commanded to preach the message that God gave them during the 40 days Jesus spent with them after his resurrection. People want to skip the book of Acts and go directly to all the books after Acts.
It’s like saying you want to be a doctor but go thru the schooling that is required to get there.
If belief is the only thing that is required for salvation, have you ever asked yourself, then why did the 120 believers have to go to Jerusalem to wait for the power that would come from on high? I’m sure you would agree that they were already believers, why else would they obey the orders to go wait? Because God was going to fill them all with the gift of the Holy Ghost!! Thank you Jesus ♥️ Acts 19 “ Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?”
@@geraldritchey4822you must have overlooked that small part about a thief on a cross next to another guy on a Cross.......of course it is easy to overlook something so obvious when your doctrine makes you jump to historical narrative (that I whole heartedly believe) to assert said doctrine. Any Theologian knows you do not build doctrine from Historical narrative. That's not saying that you can't find doctrine in Biblical narrative, just that if it's Biblical doctrine it is going to be in passages that are not primarily focused on the narrative aspects of the early Church. You really ought to enroll in some online classes from a reputable seminary.
@@danalapierre3065the Epistles/Pastoral epistles were written to establish and uphold correct Biblical doctrine. If you oneness Pentecostals would read more of the Epistles you wouldn't give all other Pentecostals such a bad name. You all are Biblically illiterate. Study more
Steven I am so deeply sorry for what you suffered. -former UPCI sis
Tongues is evidence of the spirit, but our fruit are the greatest evidence for the spirit.
I so related to this discussion. From my experience being raised in a church who taught exclusivity is very harmful. When you believe in exclusivity, it creates a person to be very critical of others and judgmental. That’s like living in a type of prison. When I was able to break free from that strong, strong belief, it was such a freeing feeling! Even though there are sweet things and good things of our past churches (who were very legalistic )that we learned from, the other teachings are extremely harmful and can last a lifetime. Breaking away is very difficult for some, and I would say, especially women! A lot of those legalistic teachings, go deep inside a person and it takes a lot of work to be free from them. A lot of grieving takes place and it’s a long journey to finally break free from so much of that.
2 Timothy 4:3 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but having itching ears, they shall heap to themselves teachers in accordance with their own lusts.
I would like to have a conversation with the guy on the right.
I used to be a Pastor in the UPC best decision I ever made was leaving now I’m an Anglican Priest.
Unfortunately this is not too uncommon. Leaving one false doctrine to another
Your personal happiness isn't the arbiter of truth. There are very happy former Christians who are Muslims.
😮😮 a priest!!??? What in the world
@@bradleydavis8714 Not sure what you mean?
@@Unknown.servant How so?
Great convo
I've attended these oneness churches and I believe if u accept Jesus as your savior that really is the most important. I didn't believe in oneness when I went there but u could sense the holy spirit in there more than u could in alot of pentecostal churches
Emotionality is what you"experienced"..... you don't bring forth good water from a poisoned well. Doesn't mean no one is really saved in that doctrine, just that God's grace can and often does overlook false doctrine being taught to reach a sincere hungry heart
I’m so sorry that you guys had bad experiences with Pentecost. There are so many things you are stating as facts of the Pentecostal church that definitely are not. I’ve never heard of many of them. I pray that you find peace.
@DebG2001 This is exactly the way it is!
This was a really good interview. Excellent point mid interview that your wife, professing Christ and holiness, should have stayed even if you were an unbeliever who did not want the marriage to be broken up. I experienced the same here and to this day it pains me greatly. Appreciate Cory's honesty and humility which is clear to see. You also did a very good job interviewing and asked great questions.
Regarding prophecy, I am very much like both of you in that my opinions have changed over the years and I don't claim to understand it all. I do reject the pre-trib rapture as I think it is an invention of man. I encourage you to study the doctrine of the reformers on prophecy; specifically on who the man of sin is, the beast, etc. J.A. Wylie's (Scottish historian of religion and Presbyterian minister.) writing on the antichrist is a great start.
I’ve known many people that leave the Apostolic church and not one family member no longer speaks to them.
Wow😢
This happens in many different religions. I left the Catholic church, and I have attended a pentecostal church for 20 years. My parents disowned me and haven't spoken to me since.
And I know people who've left their trinitarian churches and have been abused by their families for leaving. It happens both ways.
There are people in my extended family and some other families from my church who have left the faith and we still speak with them, love them, and have fun on the holidays or whenever we get together. I suppose it depends on the hearts of their families
This was a good interview and I really enjoyed it, however, on the topic of politics in the church Corey said that if the government legalized murder he would speak against it from the pulpit, but otherwise he stays completely out of politics. Our government has legalized the murder of unborn children in abortion, yet Steven did not call him out on that. I was disappointed and confused about both of them ignoring the elephant in the room. 😢
I’m familiar with the UPC and it’s very sad that they are some of the most negative and unhappy people I have met and that’s because legalism always looks on the outward man to please God instead of resting in faith in what God has already done for us in Christ.
Legalism is a term made up by people who don't want to obey the Bible, to disparage those who do.
@@geraldritchey4822your wrong, your in a cult. There's no grace with you.
@@wnctg You don't even know what grace is.
@@geraldritchey4822 The grace of God is defined in Titus 2:11-12. It teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts. The false teaching of grace is that it is a license or excuse for sin in one's life. Grace isn't a "go ahead and live like you want because we're all sinners, and you'll be saved in the end" doctrine. Grace delivers true believers from sin.
@@davidcoleman5860 Nobody is saved by grace alone You must obey Acts 2:38.
While I don't agree doctrinely with what y'all are believing and in all honesty believe you have been deceived, I can appreciate the fact that neither of you bashed the Apostolics. At least I didn't preceive it that way. I have several friends in the church that Corey left. I can appreciate the fact that if he felt he and his wife could no longer live what was being taught, even though I believe that's the only way of salvation, they did what they felt was best for them. His former pastor and my Dad are great friends. I pray one day Pastor Corey and Steven will come back to full truth.
I have listened to the first 10:27 of this podcast, and I am currently in the UPCI. And you can indeed tell that these are great men. But it troubles me to hear them say that the Bible goes against what we believe. For instance he said Ephesians 2:8 goes against what we believe, but he did not quote the whole verse at the end of that verse it says “it is the gift of God”. Which the gift of God is the Holy Ghost or also called the Holy Spirit. What this verse is actually saying is you are saved by God’s gift the Holy Ghost, not by faith or grace. So that verse just affirms that the Holy Ghost is a step in the plan of salvation. That is just one of them there are many more verses to back up why the UPCI believe what we believe.
Context: “the gift of God” makes reference to salvation not the Holy Spirit.
No, these are not great men. They are under strong delusion.
The gift of God is salvation.
@@lisawilson1453 No one is saved without obeying Acts 2:38.
@geraldritchey4822 that is where you are wrong. I know lovely Christians who have not once spoken in tongues. When you confess and believe you are saved and filled with the Holy Spirit.
Hear O Israel… Deut. 6:4, the Shema clearly states there’s only ONE G-d. I tried listening to your conversation. I’m Apostolic and clearly your issues are not about theology--but the lifestyle you desired. I presently attend a UPCI church in Southern California and I love it because the doctrine is sound. I grew up in the Apostolic Assemblies AND I’m Sephardic. I also still attend High Holy Days with my Messianic mishpocha. I hope that doesn’t blow your mind(!)
Talk about hateful
Works are apart of it. Faith without works is dead.
Believe a lie and be damned. Choosing sin is the easy path. Righteousness isn’t an easy road. The word of God is a two edged sword. You know and you’ll find out…but at that time…it’ll be too late.
For those of you searching for TRUTH! this is not the place go to Rev. David Bernard He explains all in such detail,about oneness, holiness and about backsliders. When we get to heaven who do you think will be sitting on that judgment thrown read about it in Rev.1 and Rev.4:2 also Acts 4:12 .
This interview lacks context, and proper defense of the truth of the word of God. You have cherry picked one or two verses out of the New Testament and said that you know truth based on one or two. I would challenge you to speak to a Oneness Pentecostal. I’m open to this, and there are many leaders in the UPCI movement that would love to have this conversation in a respectful, loving way. We love you, brothers. Eternity is too important to short change or to not have a long form discussion about.
It’s a podcast discussion, not a debate lol
@@VlogCity He never said it was a debate. He rightly called it a conversation/discussion.
It’s presumptive to “challenge” these guys to speak at length with Oneness Pentecostals when that’s what they both left behind. Also, with the things they’ve sacrificed in order to leave, it’d be more appropriate to assume that they’ve painfully examined a lot more than what they let on in this specific conversation.
@@nickcontino1033 "presumptive" of what? I'm not sure what you are trying to state with this. I haven't presumed anything. The facts of scripture should always over ride the opinions of man. If I presume anything it is that some of the statements they make contradict scripture. And that isn't a presumption, but a statement of fact based on the statements they made, and based on a cursory reading of scripture.
@@nickcontino1033 How is it presumptive? These men clearly left Oneness over their ignorance thereof and have adopted a faulty theological system in its place. If they were truly informed, they would have known that their experiences do not paint an accurate picture of Oneness Pentecostalism, including UPCI doctrinal affirmations. Having a lengthy discussion about Pentecostals is clearly designed to inform viewers what their former system espouses. But, as stated, they're really offering disinformation because what they're conveying is restricted to their own experiences.
A sincere effort to inform others about Oneness Pentecostalism would include a discussion with somebody knowledgeable of it.
Luke 12:51-53 (NET) Do you think I have come to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! 52 For from now on there will be five in one household divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”
I understand this is a personal testimony and that im late to the discussion. But i want to try to give some insight on things.
1: Tongues arent the ONLY witness, it is the Initial witness. Even peter recognized this when he went to baptise cornelius in acts 10:45-47.
Think of it as starting a car. Hearing the engine turn over is the first witness that the car can work. Doesnt mean it always will, but it is a start. 3:10-3:41
2: yes, oneness pentecostalism denies the 3 personhood of God as he is 1 person, 1 spirit, expressing, revealing and manifesting himself in a variety of ways. If we believe in a 3 person God, why stop there? Why not go to isaiah or revelations and claim the 7 spirits or manifestations of God to also be God? And there is other scriptures too.3:50-4:45
3: holiness is a personal relationship. I am sorry you went to a church and had to sign documents to enforce a standard of holiness. God does want us to be holy, but he never said you must be immediately holy or anything like that. He instructs us in the books of timothy and titus how a bishop and deacon are to oversee/pastor a congregation. Holiness always was and is and will be about a personal relationship with God. Things concerning women have more to do with outward showing, wereas things with men are outward but also inward. Lift up holy hands without wrath and doubting, etc 4:46-6:20
4:yes being baptised in the name is biblical. Even the end of matthew 28:19-20 Jesus says "in the name of" and the name is Jesus. Father isnt a name. Son isnt a name and holy spirit isnt a name. Those are titles or recognition of authority/natures. Read the book of acts they baptised in Jesus name or they baptised in the name of the lord. Acts 2:38, acts 8:16, acts 10:48, acts 19:5, acts 22:16.
6:33-6:50
It is very saddening there are people who do not teach people in leadership or in places of authority how to understand these things better. To give credit where it is due, Dr. David benard has been trying to reteach and enforce the scriptures for decades now.
i am sorry for everyone who encountered anyform of manipulation or cult like tactics in a local, district or regional assembly, people make mistakes and hold on to traditions like anyone else because it is familar or safe.
Edit: or they teach them without understanding or even maliciously to cause division. The bible is the ultimate authority on understanding and obeying God. There are matters of doctrinal truths, and matters of organizational unities/fellowship and there are matters of personal holiness, sometimes people blend them.
Gospels for the world.
Acts for the believers
Letters for the saints and/or church
Thats how i heard 1 preacher try to keep things organized.
Deu 6:4 Listen, Israel: The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
Isa 9:6 For a child has been born to us, a son has been given to us. He shoulders responsibility and is called: Amazing Adviser, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Zec 14:9 The LORD will then be king over all the earth. In that day the LORD will be seen as one with a single name.
Mrk 12:28 Now one of the experts in the law came and heard them debating. When he saw that Jesus answered them well, he asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?”
Mrk 12:29 Jesus answered, “The most important is: ‘Listen, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Mrk 12:30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’
Mrk 12:31 The second is: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
Mrk 12:32 The expert in the law said to him, “That is true, Teacher; you are right to say that he is one, and there is no one else besides him.
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God.
Jhn 1:14 Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory - the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father.
Jhn 8:24 Thus I told you that you will die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”
Jhn 10:30 The Father and I are one.”
Jhn 12:45 and the one who sees me sees the one who sent me.
Jhn 14:9 Jesus replied, “Have I been with you for so long, and you have not known me, Philip? The person who has seen me has seen the Father! How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Jhn 20:28 Thomas replied to him, “My Lord and my God!”
Jhn 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are the people who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Act 20:28 Watch out for yourselves and for all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God that he obtained with the blood of his own Son.
Rom 9:5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from them, by human descent, came the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever! Amen.
1Co 8:4 With regard then to eating food sacrificed to idols, we know that “an idol in this world is nothing,” and that “there is no God but one.”
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you too were called to the one hope of your calling,
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation,
Col 2:9 For in him all the fullness of deity lives in bodily form,
Tit 2:13 as we wait for the happy fulfillment of our hope in the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Heb 1:8 but of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and a righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom.
Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; well and good. Even the demons believe that - and tremble with fear.
2Pe 1:1 From Simeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ, have been granted a faith just as precious as ours.
Thank you. There is no trinity
Guys, your views have obviously changed. That doesn’t change the reality of where you got your start. Your effort to find salvation in the epistles or the gospels is faulty exegesis. It brings human philosophy into spiritual understanding. You will only find salvation explained and exemplified in the Acts of the Apostles. Yes, we are saved by grace through faith! Said faith is exemplified in obedience to the teachings of the Apostles, repentance, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and receipt of the Gift of the Holy Ghost! Obedience in no way violates faith! The Galatians had already received the normative experience of salvation by faith through obedience to the Apostles teaching in Acts.
Romans is a better book for teaching salvation.
@@lisawilson1453 You are taking Romans out of context. You cannot skip Acts and jump over into the epistles and lift verses out of context and make stand alone doctrines out of them. Romans and all the epistles must be seen through the lens of Acts. Acts is th template, the pattern, the example for salvation.
Lisa, there is one thing I think we all agree on. Our God is a God of order! Knowing the end from the beginning, God Almighty had everything mapped out, right down to the books of the Old Testament and the New Testament!
In His wisdom He knew the gospel had to meet specific requirements of the Old Covenant in order to be valid under the New Covenant. Keeping in mind that the Apostolic Church was 70 years old before some of the books/letters were written or recorded. This is why it is proper hermeneutics to find the plan of salvation in a book that was not written to the ALREADY born again. The plan of salvation is found in the only book that recorded the birth of the church and to follow the plan recorded therein. The letters written to the churches and the body politic were teaching and instruction to those already made partakers of so Great A Salvation. Anything Paul wrote to the Romans in no way invalidates or attempts to correct anything preached in the Acts of the Apostles. The extraneous texts found in the epistles are valid only as they agree with the established doctrine in the foundational doctrines established in Acts.
Faulty exegesis?.......and you go to the Historical narrative in the NT to try to assert "doctrine"? Do they even know proper exegesis and hermeneutics in UPC? Because to assert a dogma from the book of Acts is the very definition of eisegesis..........
@geraldritchey4822 Acts is history of the early church.
Revelation is not saying Jesus will be literally sitting next to God. That would mean you can see two individuals. You said yourselves you believe in one God. And you say Oneness is confusing. 13:01
When you love this truth, the worldly things do not matter. I am so sorry you did not learn to love truth.
This would have been better if it was not two guys who agree with each other talking about how much they agree with each other.
I love listening to this because you bypass basic elementary scriptures that are simple easy to understand and obey and act like were a cult for obeying and teaching simple scriptures.
I do find it silly that these men would never sit down and discuss these things with an actual UPCI pastor. Would be interesting to see them actually debate the real topics, vs the talking points.
I think it would be interesting to hear them exchange experiences with a spiritually healthy disciple/preacher
3:52 marks the beginning of claims that come either from ignorance, or dishonesty. Either way, it's a shame. This video is a sad fulfillment of II Timothy 4:3 NKJV, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers."
There is not one example of a Trinitarian baptism in the Bible but every example was done in the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 2:38 ( the plan of salvation) Acts 8:16, Acts 10:48 Acts 19:5 Acts 22:16 & Romans 6:4. We are baptized into his death. Hear O Israel the Lord our God is ONE LORD! Jesus is that ONE Lord that every tongue will confess. He is the one which is, which was and which is to come, The Almighty! ...Matt 28:19 does not say to baptize in the titles F, S, HG but in the name ( singular) of the Father S, HG...well there is no other name under heaven where man can be saved but JESUS. He is the Father in creation, the Son in Redemption & the Holy Ghost in regeneration. Do the Jews who gave us our Bible and heritage believe God is a Trinity? No and God's word never says that but the doctrine of the Trinity came by way of the Council of Nicea around 325 AD and has been evolving since. Catholic Encyclopedia and Britannica states that the primitive form of water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ was changed in the 2nd Century to the titles F,S,HG. The way of the Trinity leads to Rome but Oneness leads to Jerusalem where it all began in the Upper Room. God bless.
What about when Jesus told them to baptise in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?
@@lisawilson1453 They did exactly what Jesus commanded them to do. The name is Jesus. Father is not a name. Son is not a name. Holy Ghost is not a name. They are titles.
@@geraldritchey4822 If they did what Jesus commanded them to do by invoking Jesus' name, then it would follow the other way: invoking Jesus' name was the same as Christ saying "in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit." If they are one and the same thing, what's the problem using Jesus' words?
@dsim3211 Trinitarians also believe and use those same scriptures. No one says "I baptize you in the titles of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost," they say "in the name of." What else could that name be but Jesus?
I agree we should copy the apostles in saying "in the name of Jesus," however I also see why others say in the name of all three. Would you condemn these people looking to be disciples of Christ?
In Him dwelleth the fullness of t the Godhead
Show us in the Bible where Peter who preached acts 2:38 obeyed acts 2:38 ?
@TheProdigalVoice No human philosophy at all,only what is inline with the scriptures. We are saved by grace through faith and nothing else,nothing additional.
So sorry the church acted this way.😔 I am in oneness , my husband wAsn't , but I and all the church loved him.i was not to leave him unless adultery by bible.
I'm still part of the UPCI. I'm gonna be honest, ya'll just sound like you went to some cringe churches. My church is awesome!
Any group of people referring to themselves as the Church will never be perfect. One can always find something amiss and scrutonize it.
Paul didnt start the Church Peter and the apostles did. Jesus spent many days with the apostles before his ascension.
Did the aspostles have it wrong to baptize in Jesus name? To expect the Holy Ghost to come after repenting and being baptized? That is inaccurate?
The evidence of speaking in tongues is biblical. It didnt say gift of tongues but GIFT of the HG. Tongues is for the unbeliever and edufication in ones own prayer life.
Paul also said not to forbid speaking in tongues and that he also spake in tongues.
Im aware it doesnt say you have to speak in tongues but why not seek it? Is that wrong?
As far as the Trinity goes, it doesnt matter what you imagine or think you have scripture on to describe the throne room, if you dont have Jesus it dont matter who else you are praying too. Without him you cannot be saved.
Repentence, Baptism is ctitical (seeMark,Acts), being born again of the Spirit see John 3:6.
That is all bible, you referring to other denominations as cults is spreading division. Tell me how Christ would appreciate that in regards to unity?
Nothing easy about being a follower of Jesus. You can make your way sound as appealing as you like.
Im Upci and I only condemn those that sow division in the church. That has gone on long enough. Where is the love and unity?
I dont believe your brand is unique or the words on your sign are any better.
Modesty standards are just that, do you want men or women to come to church dressed inappropriately? For a man or woman to be a stumbling block in the house of prayer?
It is a line in the sand.
good comprehensive comments.
Thank you for your input.
I’m still in a Oneness Pentecostal Church in the PNW since 1988.
However, I do have some questions now, after losing all but one of my children to the world. I’ve watched every person turn away from my adult children and one pastor to go as far as calling my sons, devils.
My adult children have done nothing to harm the church. But the church has broken my heart over this.
As a result…… the church isnt as kind to the ppl they have, only the ppl they’re trying to win / bring in.
How authentic is that?
Just curious
I cannot say anything at all, or question anything,
or I run the risk of being told to leave, and then I’d lose every person I’ve known for 35 years.
When I did talk about my family and the issues we’ve faced, I was told it’s because I didn’t really live for God.
What???!!
It was a horrible slap in the face that I’ve never totally recovered from, due to the fact I’d given decades of my life for selfless service TO the church, and a decade to the school.
Our family held the standards. The end result is adult children on drugs, and one in prison, and all of them want nothing to do with the church. Heartbreaking.
This is the most I’ve ever said openly.
I hope I could hear from others who’ve faced the same things.
@@Ms_Jetta I am sorry to hear that. There are many reasons a person can look at the church and get bitter. Church hurts are some the most painful. I dont know your story but I am sorry that happened to you.
I would have you revisit the story of the prodigal son. Continue to serve the Lord and try to reach your sons. One day they will "remember the bread in their fathers' house" and hopfully return. Im sure that is painful to see your kids lost to this world. I have 2 young boys myself. I do my best to steer them in the right direction and cultivate that relationship with the Lord themselves. I will also say that not every word a pastor says is annointed or even appropriate. Pastors are men too that need correction also. You can stand on the Gods' word and do that. That is the authority. Gods' word.
Men's calves are their glory?? 😂😂😂....that's a new one for me.
Oneness is a theology not a denomination. It's very deceptive to present it like leaving a cult. Neither of these two men are biblical theologians. They are debating their opinions, not Bible. Some of their opinions are flat lies or misrepresentations of Apostolic beliefs.
I would be glad to sit down with either of them and take it verse by verse in a very respectful manner.
Get over yourself, your the pharisees, Jesus said don't judge on the outward appearance
@@wnctgNot a very compelling argument. Similar to this video.
I feel really sorry for you guys. The answer isn’t more people are going to heaven than you thought. The sad thing is it’s even less than you originally thought.
Are you okay?
Yikes. Let’s let the God who desires that no one should perish make the judgement call on whether more people than we think are going to hell.
The strange thing about this conversation they're having is that the verses they're saying that "don't matter" are actually in the Bible as much as the things that they want to believe in. So the verses they don't believe in anymore are actually in the Bible - line upon line precept upon precept here a little and there a little.
It's okay to believe in what you want. Biblically I suppose, but it has to be rightly divided and you can't just throw out scripture. Scripture that's in the word because you think something else is contradicting it. That's drinking milk that's not having the meat!
Have yall moved to a presbytery style of eldership yet? Never mind. Answered.
Now what about how often you take communion? lol
Also, get Doug Wilson on. He’ll do this.
Also, if you’re Pentecostal or charismatic, you should be postmil.
I'm Trinitarian Pentecostal....and I'm strongly a believer in pretrib..... I believe in the imminent return of Christ
@@Unknown.servant look into postmil. It fits our christology so much better than dispensationalism. To each their own however!
Cory read the book the two Babylons. Steven divorce is against the will of God so there wrong to tell your wife to leave you. 12 years for me gentlemen but theres two things I will never walk away from and that’s Jesus is the flesh of God and the promise of the baptisms of the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues. Grace Grace Grace and love the sinner for we are all sinners.
It’s unfortunate that you didn’t have someone to better explain your questions and lead in the UPCI church.
I'm in the UPCI. you guys are full of it. Stop spreading lies about us!
Here's another shocker, there's more of Paul you need to go back and read and Paul calls it ''my gospel''; a mystery revealed to him by Jesus Christ about gentiles.....
That dude looks just like Tony Stewart
It IS a cult
Yup
I would love to see either of you sit down with an actual Pentecostal and discuss your issues and grievances. Now you’re just spewing bitterness and pushing your “shifting theologies.”
Gods word doesn’t shift. It’s the same yesterday today and forever.
There is now created a 7 story stature that can move and speak through AI can’t remember what country it’s called the giant
Remember when Matt Hall called it the Dub Step Church.😂
The building used to be owen by Bob Hoskins and was used as a wearhouse and storage back in the 60's and 70's.
?
Yeah, when you go to Eph 2:8-9 and with all the other stuff as your argument. Then say the work of speaking in tongues.... I can't take you seriously. A little truth and a whole lot of assertions.
Isa 28:11 For with mocking lips and a foreign tongue he will speak to these people.
Isa 28:12 In the past he said to them, “This is where security can be found. Provide security for the one who is exhausted! This is where rest can be found.” But they refused to listen.
Isa 28:13 So the LORD’s message to them will sound like meaningless gibberish, senseless babbling, a syllable here, a syllable there. As a result, they will fall on their backsides when they try to walk, and be injured, ensnared, and captured.
A Cornerstone in Zion
Isa 28:14 Therefore, listen to the LORD’s message, you who mock, you rulers of these people who reside in Jerusalem!
Isa 28:15 For you say, “We have made a treaty with death, with Sheol we have made an agreement. When the overwhelming judgment sweeps by it will not reach us. For we have made a lie our refuge, we have hidden ourselves in a deceitful word.”
Isa 28:16 Therefore, this is what the Sovereign LORD, says: “Look, I am laying a stone in Zion, an approved stone, set in place as a precious cornerstone for the foundation. The one who maintains his faith will not panic.
Isa 28:17 I will make justice the measuring line, fairness the plumb line; hail will sweep away the unreliable refuge, the floodwaters will overwhelm the hiding place.
Isa 28:18 Your treaty with death will be dissolved; your agreement with Sheol will not last. When the overwhelming judgment sweeps by, you will be overrun by it.
Isa 28:19 Whenever it sweeps by, it will overtake you; indeed, every morning it will sweep by, it will come through during the day and the night.” When this announcement is understood, it will cause nothing but terror.
Isa 28:20 For the bed is too short to stretch out on, and the blanket is too narrow to wrap around oneself.
Isa 28:21 For the LORD will rise up, as he did at Mount Perazim, he will rouse himself, as he did in the Valley of Gibeon, to accomplish his work, his peculiar work, to perform his task, his strange task.
Isa 28:22 So now, do not mock, or your chains will become heavier! For I have heard a message about decreed destruction, from the Sovereign LORD of Heaven’s Armies, against the entire land.
Isa 28:23 Pay attention and listen to my message! Be attentive and listen to what I have to say!
Isa 28:24 Does a farmer just keep on plowing at planting time? Does he keep breaking up and harrowing his ground?
Isa 28:25 Once he has leveled its surface, does he not scatter the seed of the caraway plant, sow the seed of the cumin plant, and plant the wheat, barley, and grain in their designated places?
Isa 28:26 His God instructs him; he teaches him the principles of agriculture.
Isa 28:27 Certainly caraway seed is not threshed with a sledge, nor is the wheel of a cart rolled over cumin seed. Certainly caraway seed is beaten with a stick, and cumin seed with a flail.
Isa 28:28 Grain is crushed, though one certainly does not thresh it forever. The wheel of one’s wagon rolls over it, but his horses do not crush it.
Isa 28:29 This also comes from the LORD of Heaven’s Armies, who gives supernatural guidance and imparts great wisdom.
Not on these guys side at all....... but you do realize the text you used was a prophecy that God was going to judge Israel in the short time by using a nation (the Assyrians) whose language was foreign to the Israelites to correct them? You do realize that, right?
So following the scriptures is wrong according to your statements. Interesting.
It seems so. I’m Jesus only. I feel they both changed to live how they wanted. Maybe he wanted a bigger church. I grew up oneness and had great teachings and and preachings. If you’re close to God he might change your mind on a message
So basically two backsliders getting together for a bashing session of Apostolics. Couldn’t listen to much of this before stopping as it just saddens me. My heart goes out to you guys. Not only are you lost but you are leading others astray! Acts 2:38, yoy just going to take that out? And every other passage that supports it?? How about wide is the gate, and broad is the way, MANY go in! Newsflash: Scripture literally tells us more will be lost then will be saved. Read your Bible and please for your own sake stop making fools of yourselves.
Thank you for taking the time to watch and share your thoughts. I understand that our discussion can be upsetting for you, and I respect your passion for your beliefs. The conversation was not intended to bash or demean, but rather to have an open conversation about perspectives and experiences.
Regarding Acts 2:38, we value all scripture and believe in seeking understanding through study and dialogue. We recognize that interpretations can vary, and we aim to approach these differences with respect and humility.
It's clear that you care deeply about your faith and the well-being of others, and that's something we can appreciate. We're all on a journey of faith, and sometimes that means grappling with difficult questions and differing viewpoints.
Thanks again for taking the time to share your input.
Just use their video as a litmus test for your own upc church. Like do you reach out to backsliders? Do you witness to atheists, or just other denominations? Do your Sunday school classes explain oneness doctrine, standards, etc correctly?
Their complaints don’t really describe my church at all
These guys seem to have been alienated, which is the exact opposite of what should have happened. Also the guys wife left because she ‘stayed in’? that’s dysfunctional. If church culture pushes that kind of behavior it’s best to address it. Like that alone shouldn’t justify the need for a divorce.
All that being said, it’s frustrating when certain doctrinal points are labeled as absurd when there’s a perfectly understandable answer out there. Have yet to see where critics get into the weeds and present everything accurately.
what you said! I don’t agree with so much they are saying. They only speak negative about Pentecosts, they say nothing negative about other religions… the things they are saying are not my church , we reach hard for people no matter who or what they look like! Shame on them for labeling all Pentecost churches with their experience.. 😢😢 Breaks my heart. Honestly all denominations have their hiccups and imperfections.. well maybe not theirs , it’s pretty perfect according to this interview.. our jobs should be to try to bring people closer to Christ. From where they are at. I have a community Bible study with lots of denominations involved. We do not meet up and bash each other’s religion. Why can’t we just reach for the lost and not have to tell a story of the negative experiences we have experienced with people in the church. People are not perfect. Only Christ is, let’s speak Christ. And leave denominations out of it.
Just because they left that church, doesn't mean they turned their backs on God.
@@bonniecolemancoleman7299 Right. Just because Baptists left their church to join the local mosque doesn't mean they left God, right? The doctrine of the Trinity is false doctrine. They left the truth for a gross delusion.
4:29 Well… Trinity nor oneness is biblical.
He will send them a strong delusion, we trust in the Bible not man
The UPC from the top down is guilty of sin. I have heard so many times that the trinity is based upon paganism. That is a boldface lie. You might come to other conclusions based upon what you understand or misunderstand from Scripture, but baseless accusations are wrong. Do not bare false witness.
Who cares, about history if the people in power wrote history, I like how trinity is not in the Bible, yet we want to use that label
A very biased interview. Not at all truly representing what is taught!
The lack of community outreach was so sad, it doesn’t align with the Bible.