Landrover Defender , Does it make sense to remove the EGR valve ?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 лют 2022
- This video addresses the pro's and con's of the blanking of the EGR valve, the reasons why there is one, how it works, how to remove and test it. Installing a blanking panel and a test ride experience
- Авто та транспорт
Very well presented Steve. EGR is a choice that individuals need to make and depends on the vehicle. For example I have retained on my everyday town car but removed on my weekend car. I do less miles on the weekend car which for me balance’s out the gas produced. I also ensure the weekend car is healthy, again reducing bad emissions. Thanks for this video.
Thanks for the comments, and indeed that is the choice to make.. I use mine only as a workhorse pulling a trailer. So always under load. About 3000Km a year , so the change I did will have no effect on emissions or almost none
Morning Steve. Really well explanation of removing the EGR valve 🤩🏴
Thank you for the comments
Brilliant video. What a great teacher 👍🏽
Always enjoy your work, Steve. 👍
Thank you for the comments
I couldn't draw that diagram let alone explain how it works. Thank you for a great and clear explanation.
Easy explanation here.
Old engines used to go:
Air Intake > BangBang > Exhaust
EGR systems are able to create a "closed loop" system under some circumstances:
Air Intake > BangBang > Exhaust > Sent back to Intake > BangBang > Exhaust
In simple words, he just wants to make it run "the old way", removing or blocking the system altogether.
Thanks Joe
@@hussssshie yep, keep it simple and stupid that is often the best approach. In engineering we call this KISS
Great presentation and nicely explained. Thank you
Thank you for the comments
Excellent video, I always wondered exactly how this system worked we have a discovery 2 td5 the configuration much the same.
Thanks for this very well done video, it's really pro level. Seeing all the crap that goes through my engine, I think I'll remove this valve asap !
Very interesting and informative. In essence the roll of the EGR can be seen as a good thing but in my experience as a mechanic of many years the trouble they have caused and some are so difficult to replace nowadays not to mention the amount of crap that builds up in the manifold I’ve seen them reduced to half their internal diameter. It’s illegal here in the U.K. to delete or remove but it’s often done either mechanically or electronically.
Indeed Kevin. Very few EGR valves work properly after 200.000Km and do more harm then good. You are also right that it is illegal to alter the specifications of the engine and that includes the EGR removal where I Iive, Yet most don't care and like so many other legislation we do violate it regular... the nature of the beast
Fantastic video and congratulations on 50 000 subscribers. I think I tuned in on 23 000 subscribers mark
Thank you and happy to have you as a long time sub
Another quality video mate 👌👌
Glad you enjoyed
Great explanation thank you 😃
I guess the vacuum pump is also used for the servo which is why you need to block the ends?
Also, oil in the intake manifold can come from the engine breather so it is a good idea to check that is working properly before fitting a new intercooler.
Graham
Indeed, and yes oil could be that as well
Well explained and executed
Mate
Thank you for the comments
Love your videos, keep it up 👍
Thanks for the comments
Quality information, thanks so much
I did exactly the same thing on my 2005 110 15p and got a custom stage one remap done at Empire, Huge difference in performance.
I can imagine, and ever experienced problems since then ?
@@D3Sshooter It’s been 14 months and 8000 miles since the re-map with no problems.
Nice explanation. You may know this already, but in the US, some states that have more exacting / overzealous mandatory regular emissions testing, do require the inspector to check visually the integrity of the EGR system and also test it for function where they apply a vacuum like you did but with the engine running and look for stumbling or killing the engine.
California? lol
But it's a dumb inspection because it takes 10 minutes to do or undo an EGR delete like this. I don't even remove the EGR tube, just slide the blocking plate in between and disconnect the butterfly valve and any vacuum lines. You just need something to erase the codes with if your car won't erase them automatically, and costs like 4$ (i.e. ELM OBD scanner).
If they do a visual inspection, just throw some dirt on whatever you touched before going to the station so it looks factory lmao
Yes, indeed . It all depends where you live and regulations differ.
Very well explained thank you.
A1 detailed video, Thanks 👍
Thank you
on my 300tdi i have bloked the egr ,and wow ! i can tell you is the night and day !!!. yes i gain power and torque (i think 10hp). and no more crappy intake deposits. and no more black fumes at the exhaust. (i also remove the catalyser) and i passed all the officials polution tests!!
if you can do it ,do it!
Hi Steve, thanks for producing so many great videos. I was particularly interested in the EGR removal video as I have a Discovery 2 TD5 (10p) and was as horrified as you were by the amount of muck in the inlet manifold when I removed the EGR. Would you consider making a video how best to clean out the inlet manifold, ideally without removing it (which is beyond my skills). Another video on cleaning the intercoolet would be great too. What are your views about the supposed benefits of an oil breather 'Catchcan'. Thanks again & Best Regards
I found that most of the oil was coming from the engine breather , I plumbed in a oil catch tank it’s made a massive difference to the oil in the intake system .
Hi, I watched your video as I was weighing up the pros and cons of removing my EGR valve on my 2000 Discovery 2 TD5. My decision, given the mileage, 196k miles and the use of the vehicle. I decided to delete the valve given that reading the EGR valve read as stuck open when I scanned for trouble codes. The car is only used as and when necessary for work purposes. I suspect, given the moderately high mileage but relatively well maintained engine the valve will become troublesome in the future. I will also be fitting a new turbo as I noticed oil in the inlet tract.
I have read that the anti emissions systems built into these cars proved to be somewhat overkill and Land Rover believed that Euro 3 regs were to be moch stricter than they ended up being in reality.
Edit to say I noticed a small inaccuracy in your drawing. The take off for exhaust gasses for the EGR valve is indicated as being after the turbo but the take off is actually before the turbo.
Thank you for the comments. yes indeed
Another fantastic video, amazing production and editing. How do you find the TD5 for pulling heavy loads?
Thanks for the comments, mine does a great job pulling max 3500Kg's not an issue . Off course you dn't drive 110Km/hr at that time. I give it time
There is feed back, when the EGR is commanded to open , the ECU expects the the MAF to show a fall this usually brings the EML on as it can interpret it as a failing MAF sensor, some earlier ECU's simply ignore the sensor signal . The main problems with the EGR systems are clogging, they should have been designed as a serviceable item which can be easily removed for cleaning during the annual service. On some Mercedes engines I have seen inlet manifolds reduced from 3 inch diameter down to 1 ! . When cleaned out ( a filthy job) the car gained a new lease of life.
Excellent video, thought provoking ! Defender fuel pump video problem soon ?
Tree loving Defender TD5 owner here 🌲🌳😄 Thank you for this explanation! I'll probably not blank of the EGR valve on my 110 TD5 Defender if it's working properly. We use the car on our farm in Sweden as a work truck and it is basically spending a lot of time in the forest 🙂
Btw. can't you just take the vacuum hose at the top away to just disable the EGR valve?
Hi. The er valve has a lot of things in it that makes the air flow bad. So wen you install a clean tube you have about 30 % more room and no restriction. That makes the response better.
That is indeed a point, however the intercooler is the main restriction
I removed mine on a Toyota and fitted a oil catch can ,runs great and passes all emissions tests
Nice job. 👍
Thanks
Top video,thank you!
Hvl.
TXS for the comments
I think some oil tends to leak from the turbo and mixes with the exhaust gases and makes a real mess. Happens to alot of vehicles I see. Possibly just removing the pipes and plugging them may have worked also as the egr valve would stay closed on it's seat and the butterfly would stay in the open position. Although your method is probably the best as you are certain then that the only air the engine is getting is clean air from the turbo no chance of anything else getting mixed in with it.
Thanks Ashley, there are indeed two possibilities and I will find out soon. Either the Turbo seal ( as it runs on a bed of oil) might have a leak towards the intake propeller or its the crankcase tube that is stuffed with oil over the years... will check all this in the next video...when I do the intercooler job
Is it enough to close the vacuums, leave the egr? Thanks Ivan
I got the software odification along with the blanking paw AND connector disconnected, why they disconnected the EGR plug?
Very many thanks for posting this one Steve, having blanked off the EGR valve system will you still pass the Control Technique ? It will be interesting to see if this conversion affects the running temperature of the engine, I have taken off the cooling fan, (12 years ago), and have never had any overheating problems even down here in the south of France where it has been 45 deg C at times, I wonder if the vacuum pump delivering less vacuum, (vanes sticking) would cause problems with the EGR valve malfunctioning ? Chris B.
Yes it will pass here as they do not check for the NOX...as it is difficult without a load bench, other countries might do so.. and if needed we fit it back... its only 30 minute job
@@D3Sshooter That is a good idea re fitting for the test, I have just taken off my performance chip device, the last CT the tester left the Defender on tickover for 3 mins before testing, surprise! It did not pass on emissions, I also looked at the injector harness and find I have slight oil on the inner connector, so that is the next job, I am waiting for you to win the lottery Steve, it looks like we have parallel experiences! Chris B.
@@453421abcdefg12345 Thanks Chris.... wow that is good if you won the lottery, maybe its coming my way as wel.
If i do egr blanking i will get the engine everheat?
My experience is that it is better to blank, all based upon Mitsubishi turbo diesel engines. When everything is new and shiny, no problem, but when things get dirty.....The mitsi ECU does have position feedback so it is necessary to install blanking plates.
Good Day Mate, thanks for all your great wonderful videos 🫡👍
May me ask you , do I need do anything after deleting EGR on my Td5? Like do I need use my nanocom to do something !!??
Many thank
Matt 🫡
Thank you for the comments.Sorry for the late answer. As I have been away. No there is nothing else to do
So is the turbo bad or normal wear in the rings? Your valve appeared to be hiding a lot of oil. but that maybe normal for those engines. Thanks again good info.
That is possible , it might leak on the axle seal as it runs on a bed of oil from the engine. Or it might be the engine crankcase breather hose that is full of deposits
Wrt to farmers there's an Afrikaans expression in South Africa that reads "‘n Boer maak ‘n plan"
PS You explain things very.
Hahaha, da zeggen wij ook hier in vlaams
Any check engine lights that come up after removing the EGR valve?
No none at all
how much of a mission is it to take off the inlet mani and clean it out ?
Did I miss you fitting the blanking plate on the exhaust manifold ? My bad if I did 🤷🏼♂️
I thought the exhaust recirculation was not to cool the intake air (you increase the temp). The idea is that the extra co2 will bind to the nox. In theory you could also connect a co2 bottle for this purpose.
I removed my egr valve from my td5 by the way
Mark, indeed that is also what i tried to say, its exhaust fumes and by doing so the O2 is less ... as the exhaust gasses mix with the turbo fresh air. Thus the volume of air is the same but less O2. hence the burning temperature lowers with the result less NOX... The cooler that is fitted on the euro 3 TD5 cools the exhaust fumes before delivering it to the EGR... making it more dense
@@D3Sshooter thanks for explaining! Maybe I misunderstood you. Mooie defender trouwens… die van mij is niet zo netjes. (Nederlandse 130 bj2000)
Odd one, cause it’s about a Brixton 125 😂
But I’ve got a Brixton 125 and I don’t understand a part.
You remove the cover and gain access to the air box. There is then 6 screws, one set of three for an inner cone shaped cover (which reveals the air filter) and another set of three that enables you to remove the air filter. The inner three which hold in the inner black cover… what’s the point in that inner cone shaped cover? I believe it’s basically a muffler/silencer. It’s more loud without it, but it doesn’t restrict airflow or protect any part of the air filter, it also doesn’t hold anything in place. Is it a muffler/silencer?
Will this affect the emissions test for the MOT ?
Thank you for the comments, yes and no. It all depends what the MOT tests... Here they don't test NOX as they have no load test bench. But can be different in other countries and if it fails just fit it back.... its only a 30 minute job
Well told.........
Thanks
I baught a td5 and it dont have that in getting parts also aint that easy in my country.It dont want to go much faster than 80km/h.My ecu is loose is their a certain wayvto mount it to the bracket ex with a rubber inbetween or something.
If you ECU is lose, just bold it down with the 3 bolds that hold it , or place a bracket over it
@@D3Sshooter Good day Sir my defender are one with a lot of parts short i did buy the hayens manual and the defender refurbish book from hayens but it dont show that inside.Thank you.
I think I can smell it when egr car idles. It smells like it's running rich. It's different compared to gasoline rich but it's still there. Diesel engine without egr smells different. Of course its not good to keep sniffing but just what I have noticed. I'm quite happy that my tractor is just old enough that it has no egr. As if egr cooler leaks it can hydrolock the engine.
Removal of egr affects the dpf if the vehicle has dpf?
Not that I am aware off, as long as the EGR blanking does not have a closes loop circuit
It effects. But for good. It goes longer between dpf regenerations when egr is removed. As sooth is caused by lack of air. And egr causes lack of air.
If removing EGR will it affect emissions for mot?
Thanks
Thanks for the comments, yes it will if the MOT does test for Nitro Oxide , with and without load. As far as I am aware they don't in most countries, but always check with your MOT
@@D3Sshooter Thank you!
@@paulhotson5820 uk mot no. Uk mot only checks for "visible" smoke however tampering with emissions control is a fail depending on vehicle
Good 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Thank you for the comments
your diagram is not quite right
- the exaust gas take off for the recycle system is between the engine and the turbo ( under a higher exhaust pressure and pressure than after the turbo)
Of course it makes sense.
Is this legal?
watch out for the injector nozzles without the egr!
Thanks for the comments, why would that be nabsp ? Can you explain
@@D3Sshooter hello steve. well i had a td5 and basically did what you did, blinded the egr and chipped the rail pressure sensor (not reprogrammed the ecu, remapping, whatever...). In fact, the engine was much more nervous, which I thought was great. But a few thousand km's done maybe 40/50 thousand, I start to notice the irregular idling, and I ended up removing the chip, the car did about 80 to 100 thousand kms without egr and I ended up having to change the injectors. I noticed a lot of smoke in the morning, the nozzles were burnt, the diesel specialist said that it could have been the poor quality of the diesel used also whith the fact that the egr was off, in fact the nozzles were corroded, they looked rotten, I got the idea that the combustion in higher temperature had ruined those little bosch nozzles.
@@nabsp Thanks for teh explanation... So that issue can't be EGR blanking at all, stage tuning or chip based can indeed cause issues
@@D3Sshooter hi steve! at the time and after having gone through it, I read something about the subject, regarding the injection system of that particular model, I really got the idea that the manufacturer does not foresee great variations in the detonation process, comparing with the old systems of direct injection, we have here a sensitive injection system (just look at the delicate injector nozzle) with some parameters and products of the detonation controlled by the egr discharge. We were still in the early days of common rail.. the materials and geometries have improved over the years, nowadays and even more with the focus on environmental standards the two systems are more intrinsically linked, injection and egr, more than in the time of the td5. Therefore, any change in the egr system compromises the engine's reliability and the manufacturer is the first to turn its back on the customer in the event of a failure.
My conclusion is that it was not worth blocking the egr, yes the manifold was cleaner the engine response was better, but the cost of the injectors hurt! The explanation given by the diesel technician that the poor quality diesel had also contributed to the degradation of the nozzles did not convince me either!
@@nabsp Hi , that all sounds logic and for sure on newer vehicles the EGR is working in a closed loop, where sensors in the exhaust feed back info to the ECU in terms of burning effect on exhaust gases . Based on that the ecu will regulate the injection and intake. However on a TD5 that method does not exists. There is no feedback at all, or closed loop.. Its a semi static deterministic system and not a dynamic close loop system. That is why the removal of the EGR valve has no effect on the actual injection elements . I have measured the injector duty pulses with and without EGR valve, and there is no difference at all. I guess time will tell...
Awesome 👍👍👍🍺🍺🍺🇳🇿🇳🇿
Easy on a TD5
Thanks for the comments
"When you dont need power..." is a bit wrong. I need power in the city, but less than on highway. In the city with EGR, NOx are down. But consumption is high, because of the lack of efficacy, i have to give more pedal compared with no EGR. Therefore more Diesel products are burnt, in the engine or in the cat. High power on highway: no NOX reduction at all!? Beside of that, NOx is reduced by urea in Euro6 cars anyway. So why not omit EGR? And a tree loving person would rather block the EGR, because in the end NOx became fertilizer! And lastly, a VW T6 with a partially locked EGR is indeed more responsive and fuel consumption is lower, but with speed of 130km/h fuel consumption is higher than before. So here that is more complicated.
When valve sticks destroys your engine
Thank you for the comments
.